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Terror From the Inside

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Posted on Aug 5, 2008
anthrax preparedness
AP photo / Kenneth Lambert

Members of a Marine Corps chemical-biological incident team demonstrate anthrax cleanup techniques in Washington, D.C., in October 2001.

By Robert Scheer

The terrorists find all sorts of reasons to hate us. On Tuesday came word that the deadliest biological assault on the United States may be linked to the rejection of the terror suspect by a Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority sister decades ago. That is offered as an explanation of why the accused U.S. Army bio-warfare scientist allegedly drove seven hours from his home to mail anthrax-laced letters from a mailbox near the sorority’s Princeton University office, according to the Associated Press.

What we learned last week, after the suicide of Bruce E. Ivins, was disquieting enough without the twisted love angle. If you can believe the recent leaks from the FBI on its most important unsolved crime—which killed five and sickened 17, immobilized the federal government and traumatized the nation—it was a clean-shaven, white, God-fearing Catholic guy who done it. Despite a government anxious to find yet another example of Islamic terrorism in the wake of 9/11, it quickly became clear to experts that the anthrax used in the only WMD attack on our nation was a sophisticated product traceable to our own biological weapons labs. This is not surprising, because the United States has long been a leader in this field.

Our ostensible reason for developing the world’s most sophisticated arsenal of deadly biological weapons is that the United States needs to learn how to prevent such attacks from deranged outsiders. Now we have yet another reminder that the enemy may be us, and that at least some of the folks who develop weapons like to find occasions to use them. In this case, the terrorist the FBI was about to charge with homicide was a nut case who nonetheless received the highest security clearance to work on the most dangerous of weapons deep within our own military-industrial complex.

This is yet another disappointment for those writing the basic Bush administration narrative in which the terrorist is always some Islamo-fascist guy. That’s the assigned role that Saddam Hussein failed at so miserably. Remember when New York Times reporter Judith Miller was breathlessly reporting every sighting of a rusting Iraqi RV as one of Hussein’s biological weapons labs to justify the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11? Gosh, how the military-industrial complex must miss the Soviet Union, which could be trusted to match us in the high-tech game of dispensing mass death.

Of course, our government, which has never disowned the right to build and use nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction, has long insisted that we alone are to be trusted with the creation of those devilish devices. Others are judged either too irrational, evil or merely incompetent to be allowed WMD, whereas we alone, with the unique experience of having killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, pose no threat. That others might not see it our way, particularly after recent incidents, such as the missing nukes that crossed the United States on that errant B-52 flight, or the anthrax attack allegedly conducted by one of our top bio-weapons scientists, is understandable.

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The larger problem is that we no longer take the threat of WMD as seriously as we should. We focused on the nonexistent WMD in Iraq while ignoring the spread of nuclear technology from Pakistan to North Korea, Iran and Libya under the guidance of A.Q. Khan, father of Pakistan’s popularly revered “Islamic bomb.” As former CIA Director George Tenet wrote in his memoir, the Bush administration seized upon the WMD issue in Iraq only because it was convenient: “The United States did not go to war in Iraq solely because of WMD. In my view, I doubt it was even the principal cause. Yet it was the public face that was put on it.”

The public face of terrorism was a bearded Muslim armed with WMD. No wonder we were caught off guard when the only person to ever attack us with WMD turns out to be, apparently, an active congregant at St. John the Evangelist Church in Frederick, Md., and a highly trusted employee of the U.S. military.

Not that our sleuths weren’t forewarned. As Ivins’ therapist, social worker Jean Duley, reported to the Maryland District Court last month in a hearing to obtain a restraining order: “As far back as the year 2000, the respondent has actually attempted to murder several other people ... he is a revenge killer when he feels that he’s been slighted ...especially towards women. ... He has been forensically diagnosed by several top psychiatrists as a sociopathic, homicidal killer.”

In any case, he was one of us.


Robert Scheer is author of a new book, “The Pornography of Power: How Defense Hawks Hijacked 9/11 and Weakened America.”


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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, August 22, 2008 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

Here’s an even better take on Israel and 9/11.

http://www.911missinglinks.com/

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By PatrickHenry, August 22, 2008 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, August 21 at 8:04 pm #

Your jaded argument doesn’t address that the van the Israelis were driving in tested positive for explosives nor does it explain how or why multiple passports were found.

Chertoff, another Israel first, America second spy sent them and 200 other “art students” back to Israel shortly thereafter. 

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/7305

Here’s some more info for you to feebley refute.

Lets hope with new congressmen and a new president in office, ones not mired in Israeli jewish lobby muck can get this country turned around.

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By Sepharad, August 21, 2008 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Patrick Henry,

I doubt you are still looking at this thread, but wanted to tell you that the very short youtube segment you seem to think incriminates Israelis in 9/11 is taken from a feature-length documentary done by the white-haired guy, an American Jew curious about the resurgence of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion propaganda and anti-Semitism in general. If you watch the whole film, you see him talking to the guys the woman thought she was watching celebrating terrorists or something. It’s been so long that I don’t remember exactly who they were, but they were there and had a videocamera and took footage of the smoking Twin Towers—like many others, foreign and Americans, that day. (There’s another documentary with much of the footage taken on peoples’ video cameras, including a bunch of Europeans and Japanese tourists as well as pro filmmakers and miscellaneous Americans.) Also in the film were two Israeli film students finishing up their documentary on the lives of typical NYFD guys. They’d been sleeping and eating and going to fires with this one station group for weeks when the planes hit the buildings and went to the scene with them but not into the building. Tried to but the firemen wouldn’t let them. They said they’d wait for the guys to come out, but these firemen were among those first responders who never did come out. Actually, you should see if you can find that “Protocols” documentary and watch it: the bulk of material on that particular incident of the dancing whatevers was short, editing out the information the documentarian actually got. There was nothing to it.

I have to look for the Loftus book and will provide you with the relevant footnotes and sources. Probably will do it on another unrelated thread as I doubt you’re still looking at this one.

Interested that you chose Patrick Henry as your penname. I read everything I can get my hands on about the American Revolution and of course the original Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Amendments, Hamilton and Jefferson’s differences, the whole schmear. One of my favorite less-celebrated Revolutionary characters is the Swamp Fox, Francis Marion of South Carolina, who led the Brits on such a merry chase through the Sea Islands.  Hard to find good bios on him. Also interested in the French and Indian War with England, which began solidifying support for the break with England. Sometimes I’ve found that historic events are best understood approached from many decades, even sometimes hundreds of years before the event.

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By cann4ing, August 15, 2008 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Nah, Patrick Henry, I suspect folktruther didn’t know your namesake, but McCain must have—I mean that walking corps is older than God.

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By PatrickHenry, August 15, 2008 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

By Folktruther, August 15 at 3:44 pm #

Yes, he insisted on the Bill of Rights before signing off on the Constitution because he thought it gave the feds too much power.

Did you know the original Patrick?  You sound like you have first hand info.

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By Folktruther, August 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry, I agree with what I’ve read of your comments, but did you know that the orignial Patrict. who did’t give the speach wanting liberty or death (it was an incredible simulation reconstruted, proably fraudently, later) was, at the time he wasn’t wanting liberty, was one of the largest slave owners of hs county?

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By PatrickHenry, August 15, 2008 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, August 14 at 11:32 pm #

“but you’d have to be really round the bend to think any Israeli would participate in 9/11”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

Evidence proves otherwise.  I also doubt the excuse you provided giving Israel justification to attack the USS Liberty without warning, where’s your proof?

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By Robert, August 15, 2008 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

The Israeli Spy Ring

ALL LINKS TO CARL CAMERON’S FOX NEWS STORY ON THE ISRAELI SPY RING HAVE BEEN REMOVED AT THE EXPRESS REQUEST OF FOX NEWS.

However, you can still view them HERE

“Israel does not spy on the United States of America.”
—Mark Regev, a spokesman at the Israeli embassy in Washington

“Prior to 9/11, the FBI had discovered the presence of a massive spy ring inside the United States run by the government of Israel. This seems a harsh gratitude from a nation which obtains 10% of its annual budget from the American taxpayer, $3+ billion a year. Over the years, American taxpayers have been required to send Israel more than four times what the US spent to go to the moon.
What Israel has done in return was to set up government subsidized telecommunications companies which operate here in the United States. One of these companies is Amdocs, which provides billing and directory assistance for 90% of the phone companies in the USA. Amdocs’ main computer center for billing is actually in Israel and allows those with access to do what intelligence agencies call “traffic analysis”; a picture of someone’s activities based on a pattern of who they are calling and when. Another Israeli telecom company is Comverse Infosys, which subcontracts the installation of the automatic tapping equipment now built into every phone system in America. Comverse maintains its own connections to all this phone tapping equipment, insisting that it is for maintenance purposes only. However, Converse has been named as the most likely source for leaked information regarding telephone calls by law enforcement that derailed several investigations into not only espionage, but drug running as well. Yet another Israeli telecom company is Odigo, which provides the core message passing system for all the “Instant Message” services. Two hours before the attacks on the World Trade Towers, Odigo employees received a warning. Odigo has an office 2 blocks from the former location of the World Trade Towers.  “I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing—although that was part of it—by a sovereign foreign government… It will become public at some point when it’s turned over to the archives, but that’s 20 or 30 years from now.”

—Senator Graham as quoted in Senator: At Least One Foreign Country Assisted the 9/11 Terrorists
Let us be clear here. There is nothing benign about Israel spying on the United States. When Jonathan Pollard stole our nuclear secrets (which your taxes paid to develop) and sent them to Israel, Israel did not hesitate to trade those secrets to the USSR in exchange for increased emigration quotas.

The implication of these facts is that the billions of our tax dollars sent to Israel (while women and children sleep in America’s alleys and eat out of trash bins) have bought and paid for a monstrous phone tracking and phone tapping system that can eavesdrop on almost any phone call in America. Even the White House phones were open to such tapping by listening in on the other end outside the White House itself.

This actually happened. The Ken Starr report on Whitewater describes how Bill Clinton informed Monica Lewinsky that their phone sex conversations had been recorded. At the same time, Clinton ordered the FBI to cease the hunt for an Israeli mole known to be operating inside the White House itself!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest story that you will NOT see on AIPAC’s controlled CNN, FAUX News…etc…


http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/spyring.html

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By Sepharad, August 15, 2008 at 12:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena, Patrick Henry, Folktruther et al—You’re right: what’s is going on is more complicated than most want to believe. But I don’t think anyone will know for sure for a very long time, until much more info has been declassified and until a lot of “old spies” from intelligence agencies around the world—active now but in a couple of decades out of the picture enough—will say what they know truhfully if anonymously. John Loftus, a former prosecutor with the US Justice Department’s Nazi-hunting department and unprecedented access to CIA and NATO archives, retired to write about how the intelligence community has operated over the years. St. Martin’s Griffin Press (NY) has published at least four of his books; you might be interested in his findings. His rather lengthy and dense (but well-written) books are heavily footnoted with sources, and include extensive bibliographies.

E.g., some Truthdig commenter mentioned the Liberty Ship incident during the ‘73 Yom Kippur war—a flagged American ship attacked by the Israelis, and Loftus was able to unravel who did what when. Basically it was a sophisticated warmap ship—not just a simple eavesdropping radioship—commissioned by the NSA without the knowledge of the US President, the CIA, or the Israelis and was being used to send Israeli troop movements and plans to the Egyptians by way of a British reception base on Cyprus, which also was transmitting disinformation to Jordanian intelligence. A CIA mole in MI6 alerted the CIA, an Israeli mole in the CIA told the Israelis who then confirmed it through a sympathetic Jordanian intelligence officer. After figuring out where the key “box” was on the Liberty, Israelis attacked to destroy it with as minimum loss of life of American sailors as possible, and with great reluctance. Two pilots refused outright and had to be replaced. There were many contemporary accounts of the incident—by a Liberty sailor, by intelligence op Eveland, the official US version and the official Israeli version at the time, Seymour Hersh’s analyis and that of British analyst Richard Deacon. All were based on the info, sometimes conflicting, that each had at the time (Hersh’s and Deacon’s speculations—not information—being closest to what actually happened). Loftus didn’t publish this particular book until 1994, and the Liberty was only one of hundreds of incidents involving many different countries and issues.

It’s important to find out as much as possible, particularly when a creeping totalitarianism seems underway and abetted by those in high places, elected and not elected, with constant attempts to manipulate the American people’s opinions. I sometimes wonder exactly how stupid they think we are, but despair of putting all the pieces together, and question my power as a citizen to change anything at all. The FOI Act was important, but too much material is still kept classified until all the issues are moot. Multinationals and big oil run the world, have done so since the end of WWI, and our elected representatives haven’t stopped them.


It seems to make some of you feel better to demonize Israel—knock yourselves out—but it’s just another small country trying to survive. Israelis know the Brits,  Europeans and the U.S. must covertly support oil-rich Arab countries ... but also believe that only the American people condone this for practical reasons rather than anti-Semitism. Most Israelis understand and care about the problems of Arab peoples more than Westerners, but they must deal with Arab government policies and religious fanaticism. (And they DON’T hate Islam: some of their quiet Islamic allies are Turkey, most of the Kurds and some of the Central Asian ‘stans.)

Amateur spy Jonathan Pollard passed info to the Israelis on what new missile technology the U.S. was giving to the Saudis, and is in prison for it, but you’d have to be really round the bend to think any Israeli would participate in 9/11.

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By Robert, August 14, 2008 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

“The Neocons Are Dying to Nuke Iran”

An interview with Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

By Kathy Sanborn

13/08/08 “ICH”—- Sanborn: When I read your article, “Marching Off Into Tyranny,” I was impressed by how you were able to concisely sum up one of the most important issues that we face as Americans, namely, the erosion of our civil liberties, mostly due to fabricated terrorism such as the anthrax scare and the attacks on 9/11. You talk about the Florida university professor, Al-Arian, who continues to be victimized by the Feds although a jury has cleared him of any terrorism charges. [As of August 8, 2008, the Associated Press states, “U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema postponed the trial indefinitely, questioning whether the government was overeager in filing charges.” –KS]

What was your wake-up call, Dr. Roberts, to the fact that the current administration was determined to take away the civil liberties of Americans?

Roberts: When they responded to 9/11 with the Patriot Act. That document was thick, and it would have taken months and months to prepare it, yet it came out shortly after the 9/11 attacks.

Why does combating terrorism require an assault on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? It was clear to me that there was an undeclared agenda there.

On the day of 9/11, I knew right away that something was wrong. I had been an engineering student at Georgia Tech, and things just didn’t add up. As I watched the towers fall, I could see that the buildings were blowing up from the top, at least initially. The airplanes caused asymmetrical damage, and I don’t think the planes were large enough to cause the buildings to topple. When you chop a tree down, it doesn’t blow up, it falls.

The buildings were blowing up, not falling down.

Then when I saw pictures of the alleged terrorists, most of them looked just like kids. They were small, and airplane passengers wouldn’t have hesitated to try to take them down. The average American male should have been able to take care of the hijackers.

And how they could have fooled all of the intelligence agencies, outwit NORAD, and so on; it just didn’t make any sense.

They were really after our civil liberties. That was their undeclared agenda. The effect is that no one has any protection under the law.

Sanborn: In your article, you mention the anthrax scare as being a logical part of the 9/11 “false-flag” series of events. Now that we know the anthrax actually came from a US government lab and not from an alleged cave in Afghanistan, the theory seems to hold water. And you point out that recently scientist Bruce Ivins was implicated in the anthrax case after his apparent “suicide.”

You also discuss how the Bush administration lied to ABC reporter Brian Ross by telling him the anthrax was made in Iraq by none other than Saddam Hussein, thus clearing the way for the US to invade Iraq and to pass the Patriot Act. Dr. Roberts, are journalists these days in the habit of simply believing and accepting everything the administration tells them, or are some of them on the “company” (CIA) payroll?

Roberts: I suspect both. It’s a corporate-run media, especially since the Clinton administration days, and many of the journalists act as “disinfo” agents for the government.

Back in the 1970s when I was a Senate aide, I would turn on the TV in the evening and the news reports would bear no resemblance to what had actually happened that day. I noticed that there were no journalists in the gallery, so how had the stories gotten to them? It turned out that the aides were calling the press, and the journalists were taking the stories, virtually running them verbatim. Journalists are lazy.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest of interview with Paul Craig Roberts:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20502.htm

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By Sepharad, August 13, 2008 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

cann4ing, No way should anyone underestimate Cheney. Frankly, seeing how badly things have gone wrong in the past, under much less malevolent executive branchmen, I’m waiting eagerly for a new administration and hoping that it will at least not make the situation worse. Re my perhaps oversensitivity to anti-Semitism (in its true meaning, which is anti-Arab anti-Jew anti-Israel), it derives from the unfortunate fact that the Arab and Israeli people are smack in the middle of a region where exists a commodity developed countries will kill for and Arab monarchs, particularly the House of Saud, insist on using to enrich themselves instead of their people. Fighting the Nazi wannabees, the Bechtels, the Bushes, the Brits, crazed religious zealots of all religions, and Saudi kings is not nearly as discouraging as having to fence with people who should be natural allies—i.e., progressives and Marxists (the non-KBG variety that is), and enlightened, tolerant Arabs who are also stuck in a hard place.Maybe this will never change until we get off oil, or maybe it will just drag out until carbon emissions and global warming kill off our species. My weak point is that my optimism is hard to kill off, and I’m too stubborn to just let things take their myopic downward course.

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By Folktruther, August 13, 2008 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

Yes, Cyrana, Cann4ing, Robert and the others are quite right.  The most plausible explanation, on inadequate information, was that the 9/11-anthrax homicide was a probably false flag operation, probably orchestrated by elements of the Bushite regime.  With Israeli and Pakistani, among other intelligence agencies, assistence.  Using Muslim operataives, witting or unwitting.

Scheer, not incidentally, recouped some of his reputation with his current analysis of the reason for the US-Georgia war with Russia.

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By PatrickHenry, August 13, 2008 at 3:46 am Link to this comment

By Sepharad, August 12 at 4:46 pm #

Ridicule the message, how typical.

It happened. Israel is involved.  They will need to be protected by god if it comes out.

Propaganda and media distortion can only protect so much.  Once the house of cards starts falling all “secrets” are on the table.

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By cyrena, August 13, 2008 at 12:07 am Link to this comment

1 of 2 reply to Sepharad, August 12 at 3:27 pm

•  Nasty insiders would have selected targets not so financially and militarily damaging, but with potential larger loss of life.”

Shepard,

Just for thinking purposes, let’s really consider WHAT the ‘targets’ would have been, had real terrorists extremists, who allegedly care nothing about the loss of life, and simply need to make their political points, (as many ‘terrorists’ have done in the past) would choose. Well, there is a nuclear site in upstate New York, known to many, (so we would need to include the so-called ‘terrorists’) and that would surely have been far more damaging, (and even easier) to run an airplane into. No, not even a nasty insider in the government would have done that.


•  I must say that the originator and purveyors of the Islamists-didn’t-do-it notion sound like CIA plants seeking to muddy the waters. The school of so-called thought that bin Laden in his cave and stoneage Moslems could never have pulled off such a thing, is pure racist condescension, demonstrably untrue and a red herring worthy of some creator skillful enough to stampede most of the leftwingers in the wrong direction.

I think you miss the point here, since it’s not at all about racism. NOBODY (least of all those who question the multiple discrepancies of the Official Conspiracy – The 9/11 Commission Report) has suggested that “Islamists” (be they al-Qaeda led or not) were not CAPABLE of pulling this off. That isn’t the point, or even the question. The question is whether or not they DID. And, the US government has yet to provide ANY, (and I do mean ANY) physical evidence that they actually did.

So the real ‘red herring’ is the fact that they absolutely COULD HAVE done it, and there are documented statements that they certainly *did* consider it, at some point. Why else would the CIA have maintained a ‘bin Laden Unit’? Nobody is suggesting that they could not have accomplished something on this order, because if we examine the history of political violence, there are NUMEROUS occasions of airplane high jackings, or bombs planted on airplanes that cause them to crash in the middle of their flights. These are far too numerous to mention in this post, but the fact of the matter is that this was not a ‘novel’ idea, and commercial air operations, as well as the US military, have –for DECADES- had multiple provisions in place to prevent and respond to such incidents. WHICH - is why we haven’t HAD any, until 9/11/01. (I spent my career in the commercial aviation industry – ALL parts of the operations). So, if the Libyans could do it, (at least to the extent of planting bombs on an airplane) then no one is by any stretch of the imagination, suggesting the highly intelligent leaders of al-Qaeda, (Zawahiri is a physician by the way) couldn’t have done it.

*I’M* saying, that they DID NOT, and clearly not alone. al-Qaeda did NOT arrange for the 15 Military Drills that occurred on 9/11, which..among other things, “moved fighter planes to Canada and Alaska, introduced fake radar blips on the screens of military personnel, and deployed both civilian and military aircraft in the guise of highjacked airliners. This was ONE way the vaunted US air defense in the Northeast Corridor was PARALYZED for about 1 hour and 45 minutes.” *(9/11 Synthetic Terror – Tarpley).

No. al-Qaeda didn’t work that out, so that there would be NO response to such emergencies during that time, on that day.

That said, they also didn’t overpower 8 experienced commercial airline pilots in 4 separate cockpits. It DID NOT HAPPEN. Period. I knew some of those crew members, and they simply would not have given up their ships that way. Moreover, no matter how smart the alleged operatives were, they did NOT pilot those aircraft into the WTC towers, or anywhere else.  Even long term experienced pilots would have needed time to maneuver such a feat.

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By cyrena, August 13, 2008 at 12:06 am Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2 reply to Shepard

Additionally, NO COMMERCIAL JETLLINER EVER HIT THE PENTAGON, and the government has never provided any physical evidence that it did. Nothing. No debris, no bodies, no ANYTHING. Same with the aircraft that allegedly crashed in Shanksville. NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of that has ever been presented.

Then of course there’s the obvious fact that whatever struck the Towers, (that at least appeared to be airplanes, though even they could not, and have yet to be confirmed as AA or UA jetliners) did NOT cause those towers to fall so rapidly. In short, those airplanes could not have caused that damage. It’s an absolute. So we KNOW that the Towers (all three of them) were brought down by explosives. So, why didn’t the official commission report just SAY that the Towers were bombed, and blame THAT on al-Qaeda as well? I mean, if we’re gonna blame this intelligent gang for being able to do all of the rest, (19 highjackers with weapons did NOT get past the security at all of those airports – impossible) why not just say that the ‘terrorists’ planted those bombs in the days before, (since we know SOMEBODY had to) and then did the rest of it for show?

That’s just for starters, and it doesn’t begin to address how these operations were actually (most probably) carried out. I personally, (like most other Americans) WANTED to believe the initial explanation for the terror of 9/11, but because of my own background, I found it next to impossible to believe certain elements. (like the towers falling from being struck by Boeing 757 aircraft). THAT much I knew, could not be. But, I was willing to wait on the official confirmation, by the standard agencies that ALWAYS appear on the scene immediately, (like the NTSB and the FAA) knowing that it could be weeks or even months before they came up with a thorough explanation that could be released to the public. I was certain that they would surely correct, (in the official investigation) the notion that such destruction had been created by airplanes, and tell us that in fact it was explosives, and maybe the ‘terrorists’ had planted them in advance.

But alas, the NTSB NEVER EVEN SHOWED UP! At least not in the days and weeks following the attacks. And, while there was certainly a ground response in NYC by all of the local emergency services, one would never know that an aircraft disaster had occurred at the Pentagon, because there was NO emergency response. Having witnessed (with my own eyes) two crashes of two commercial jetliners, and been part of the response teams (after the fact) on two others, I KNOW what air disasters look like, and I’m far more aware than I’d ever want to be, of the kind of emergency response that these generate. Local medical centers have routine drills for exactly these purposes. Yet there wasn’t a single fire truck, ambulance, or anything else of any significance every noted at the Pentagon, or in Shanksville. 

And the debris from the WTC? Shipped off to Long Island immediately, and from there…CHINA. ZERO physical evidence of what really happened that day.

Check out: “9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA” Webster Griffin Tarpley, 2nd edition.

Yes, there are hundreds of others, but this one will save you the trouble of reading them all. I also highly recommend actually READING the 9/11 Commission Report, which is carefully noted as the “official’ report. I’ve discovered that so many people in the denial phase have NOT read it. I’d recommend “The Commisson: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation” by Philip Shenon as well. First, the White House did everything they could to AVOID an investigation, (until the widows/family members of the victims demanded it, and that took forever, since they were stonewalled in all directions), and then, once the so-called ‘investigation’ was finally hooked up, it was totally undermined and corrupted from within.

Not racism. They just didn’t do it, because Chaney beat ‘em to it.

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By Robert, August 12, 2008 at 9:49 pm Link to this comment

High-Fivers and Art Student Spies

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

By CHRISTOPHER KETCHAM

“03/07/07 “Counterpunch”——On the afternoon of September 11, 2001, an FBI bulletin known as a BOLO ­- “be on lookout”—was issued with regard to three suspicious men who that morning were seen leaving the New Jersey waterfront minutes after the first plane hit World Trade Center 1. Law enforcement officers across the New York-New Jersey area were warned in the radio dispatch to watch for a “vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack”:

  White, 2000 Chevrolet van with ‘Urban Moving Systems’ sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals.

At 3:56 p.m., twenty-five minutes after the issuance of the FBI BOLO, officers with the East Rutherford Police Department stopped the commercial moving van through a trace on the plates. According to the police report, Officer Scott DeCarlo and Sgt. Dennis Rivelli approached the stopped van, demanding that the driver exit the vehicle. The driver, 23-year-old Sivan Kurzberg, refused and “was asked several more times [but] appeared to be fumbling with a black leather fanny pouch type of bag”. With guns drawn, the police then “physically removed” Kurzberg, while four other men ­- two more men had apparently joined the group since the morning ­- were also removed from the van, handcuffed, placed on the grass median and read their Miranda rights.

They had not been told the reasons for their arrest. Yet, according to DeCarlo’s report, “this officer was told without question by the driver [Sivan Kurzberg],‘We are Israeli. We are not your problem.Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.’” Another of the five Israelis, again without prompting, told Officer DeCarlo ­- falsely ­- that “we were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the incident”. From inside the vehicle the officers, who were quickly joined by agents from the FBI, retrieved multiple passports and $4,700 in cash stuffed in a sock. According to New Jersey’s Bergen Record, which on September 12 reported the arrest of the five Israelis, an investigator high up in the Bergen County law enforcement hierarchy stated that officers had also discovered in the vehicle “maps of the city with certain places highlighted. It looked like they’re hooked in with this”, the source told the Record, referring to the 9/11 attacks. “It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park.”

The five men were indeed Israeli citizens. They claimed to be in the country working as movers for Urban Moving Systems Inc., which maintained a warehouse and office in Weehawken, New Jersey. They were held for 71 days in a federal detention center in Brooklyn, New York, during which time they were repeatedly interrogated by FBI and CIA counterterrorism teams, who referred to the men as the “high-fivers” for their celebratory behavior on the New Jersey waterfront. Some were placed in solitary confinement for at least forty days; some were given as many as seven liedetector tests. One of the Israelis, Paul Kurzberg, brother of Sivan, refused to take a lie-detector test for ten weeks. Then he failed it.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on URL for the rest of the article/news that you will NOT find on the AIPAC controlled mainstream news media ...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17260.htm

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By cann4ing, August 12, 2008 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

Sepharad, if by racist you are referring to some sort of Israeli conspiracy behind 9/11, I share your concerns about an undertone of anti-Semitism. But I also think it a mistake to underestimate the level of Cheney’s ruthlessness.  We do not know enough about the event to reach any definitive conclusions primarily because the Bush regime, immediately after the event, cloaked everything behind a thick veil of secrecy, first resisting the very idea of a 9/11 and then stonewalling the commission, preventing access to a massive array of documents, preventing the commissioners from having a stenographer present, recording or even taking notes while questioning Bush—questioning that was permitted only in the presence of Cheney.

There is the still inexplicable collapse of WTC 7 into its own footprint in the span of 8.7 seconds—a building that was not struck by a plane.  I had initially assumed that even if it was taken down by controlled demolition, the bombs could have been planted by al Qaeda, but it turns out WTC 7 was one of the most secure in the U.S., housing offices of intelligence agencies and the NYPD command center.  On 9/11 Guilliani was recording stating he was told to evacuate 15 minutes before the collapse because the building was going to come down.

Then there is this anthrax story.  The letters mailed on 9/11 bearing language seeking to blame Muslim terrorists are now said to be produced in the U.S.  ABC is falsely told by highly placed officials the anthrax is linked to Iraq.  Why?  As Greenwald observes in his Salon piece, it is likely those feeding the false information were responsible for the anthrax mailings, and then Greenwald poses these questions.

“Why were White House aides given cipro weeks before the anthrax attacks, and why “on the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, [did] the White House Medical Office dispense[] Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David”? [Washington Post, 10/23/2001]”

“Which ‘high government official’ told Richard Cohen to take cipro prior to the anthrax attacks (it wasn’t a ‘source’ who did so, since Cohen didn’t write about it and apparently never intended to; it was just someone high up in Government passing along a helpful tip to a media friend) [Richard Cohen, Slate, March 18, 2008]”

Finally, as to the Kennedy assassination, I would highly recommend reading Mark Lane’s “Plausible Denial.”

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By Sepharad, August 12, 2008 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment
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Patrick Henry, like I said, some of the red herrings (such as great-things-still-secret-to-all-but-the- writer)sound more like disinformation to me. Israelis usually don’t shoot themselves in the foot, i.e. trying to destroy one of their few allies. Jews and Arabs are individual human beings with varying agendas. But don’t write either of us off as stupid.

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By PatrickHenry, August 12, 2008 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, August 12 at 3:27 pm #

Don’t forget about the Urban moving systems “Dancing Israel’s” dressed as arabs on camera rejoicings with the World trade center in the background burning.

That, coupled with the fact over 200 Israeli agents were rounded up and deported (still a secret) after 9/11….well it stinks of Israeli involvement.

A more in depth investigation is required by another administration, considering the Bush administration and sitting congress are incapable of investigating themselves.

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By Sepharad, August 12, 2008 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment
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Though I’ve thought the JFK assassination, the anthrax scare and 9/11 have all needed much more scrutiny, the thesis that seems to be spiraling up here—that 9/11 was planned with the connivance of U.S. executive and intelligence agency insiders—is a little insane and definitely racist.

I have no illusions about our government (or any one else’s for that matter) but look: if any capitalist “insider” and NOT Al Alquaeda had planned and executed 9/11, they would certainly not have targeted the Twin Towers & Pentagon. Nasty insiders would have selected targets not so financially and militarily damaging, but with potential larger loss of life. I must say that the originator and purveyors of the Islamists-didn’t-do-it notion sound like CIA plants seeking to muddy the waters. The school of so-called thought that bin Laden in his cave and stoneage Moslems could never have pulled off such a thing, is pure racist condescension, demonstrably untrue and a red herring worthy of some creator skillful enough to stampede most of the leftwingers in the wrong direction. (The only ethnic group who got out of Dodge during and post-9/11 were Saudi royal relatives. The Saudis, by the way, carry the largest share of blame for the continuing poverty and instability in the Arab world, where too often the only avenues left for angry young men—poor, but by no means stupid—are drug-dealing or radical Islam.)

Re 9/11, the failure of the intelligence and immigration agencies to be alert and thorough, and the military’s inability to defend as soon as the first plane was hijacked are the real embarrassments and issues that need more excavation. Any digression from investigating along those lines is both foolish and damaging.

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By Folktruther, August 11, 2008 at 11:26 pm Link to this comment

Granted that Scheer’s portrayal of the FBI-antrax events are below his usual standard.  The liberal explanation for this low performance, as for the 9/11-anthrax historical events themselves, tend to focus on mistakes, weakness, incompentence, a need for a vacation, or the like.  Let me suggest to you an alternative possiblity.

Robert Scheer, and most of his journalist colleagues are intellectually dishonest.

Ah no, that cannot be, why it is like saying that he lacks intellectual integrity.  But I am afraid that is exactly what I am saying.

It isn’t possible to work for the capitalist press without supporting the capitalist imperialism of the American power structure.  If a journalist working for the NYTimes stated that the most plausable explanation in the case is that the FBI hounded Ivins to death, or even murdered him or covered up his murder, he would not be working for the NYTime very long.  Indeed, the Times would not hire anyone who they thought would say such a thing in the first place.

So journalists in the capitalist press lie continuously, if only by maintaining a discrete silence.  And conseaquently it is not called lying in the mainstream truth tradition because everyone in the media does it routinely.  Not only in this country but in every country.  But particularly in the US which is losing world power and the whole power system is being transformed into a police state.

Leading conservative truthers deceive rank and file conservatives and liberal truth leaders deceive rank and file liberals, since both work for a media that are owned, controlled and financed by members of the ruling class.  Who place their editors and other truth managers in the media to oversee that truthers of all kinds toe the ideological line.

I hope I’m not shocking you.  George Shaw once commneted that all professions are conspiracies against the laity- yes, cann4ing, even lawyers- and journalism is also a profession.  One can suck up to authority if one chooses, but doing so prevents one from telling the truth from the perspective of the population rather than from the perspective of the power structure.

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By cann4ing, August 11, 2008 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

An 8/10/08 NY Times op ed by Gerry Andrews. ass. prof of microbiology at the Univ. of Wyoming and a former colleague of Bruce Ivins, pokes more gaping holes in the FBI’s case.  He notes that while the FBI claims it traced a “unique DNA footprint to a single anthrax spore” but fails to reveal the methodology used to arrive at that conclusion which is essential.  He then states:

“Dr. Ivins was an investigator in the case before he was a suspect. After the anthrax attack, Dr. Ivins himself worked directly with the evidence. The F.B.I. asked Dr. Ivins to help them with the forensics in the case by analyzing the contents of suspicious letters. And he did so for years, until the authorities began to suspect that the anthrax spores used in the mailings might have originated from his lab.

“Dr. Ivins, for instance, was asked to analyze the anthrax envelope that was sent to Mr. Daschle’s office on Oct. 9, 2001. When his team analyzed the powder, they found it to be a startlingly refined weapons-grade anthrax spore preparation, the likes of which had never been seen before by personnel at Fort Detrick.

“It is extremely improbable that this type of preparation could ever have been produced at Fort Detrick, certainly not of the grade and quality found in that envelope.”

Among the difficulties with the FBI’s evidence is the distinct possibility that the powder used in the attacks could have been contaminated by post-investigation handling of that evidence in the lab.

Curious that the FBI failed to reveal to the public Dr. Ivins role as an investigator prior to his becoming a suspect.

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By cann4ing, August 11, 2008 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

I’m with you Tony.  Given his track record, in which he has never been proven to be to shy to speak truth to power, I have to believe this article to be the product of carelessness.  But then who am I to say.  It appears our folktruther has a PhD in mind-reading as well as qualifications for having minored in psycho-babble and for having the good sense to marry a lawyer.

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By David Fisher, August 11, 2008 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment
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I find this whole scenario given to us by the FBI too bizarre.  I believe this will eventually be revealed as something much bigger and more broadly played out than Watergate. Unfortunately, by the time it all comes out the perps will either be dead or in a terminal state of decline, and no judgement will be brought against anyone other than in the history books.  Cheney would be at the top of my list of suspects!

One thing I can’t understand is why would Scheer buy into such a seemingly poorly fabricated set of circumstances?

Too bad!

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

Bush isn’t a moron? That’s debatable, in my view. If not, he sure does an awfully good impression of one. Cheney, on the other hand, is definitely not a moron, just evil. Bush is the moron puppet who probably never gets told much. Like, he was given Cipro before the anthrax attacks happened. Probably didn’t know why, and too stupid to care. Or the “My Pet Goat” thing. They probably told him “no matter what you hear, just sit there, we’ve got it under control.”

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, August 11 at 10:47 am

I pretty much agree with you except that I wouldn’t say Scheer “sanitized” the story deliberately. I would certainly go so far as to call it piss poor investigative journalism.

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By Folktruther, August 11, 2008 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

Bush, Cheney and Rice are NOT morons; their function is simply to destroy the traditonal US power system and substitute a Democratic police state. This is a despotic and tyranical power system covered up by libeal institutions drained of people power.  Consequently the government acts incopetantly because they want to destroy its social function and emphasize tis repressive function of government.

That’s why American ideolology is so irrational.  The War on Terrorism, elevating a minor world police problem to the status of a War makes no rational sense, but feeds the emotional racism which is a glue that holds the American power system together and gains support for the ruling class across class boundaries.

That is why Scheer’s sanitizing of the FBI’s bullying or murder of Ivin is so important.  This War was initiated by the 9/11-antrax false flag homicide, which is buried under the rationalizations and deceptions of the mainstream truth, including the mainstream progressive truth.

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 9:33 am Link to this comment

By cyrena, August 10 at 3:18 pm #

That said, they aren’t so stupid as to be unaware of the fact that an attack (like the one they allegedly carried out) wouldn’t be immediately disrupted by the SUPREMELY SUPERIOR US DEFENSE SYSTEM. But somehow, that happened anyway. The supremely superior US defense system, was TOTALLY MIA for an hour and 45 minutes on 9/11/01. No NORAD, no anything, or anybody around to do something as simple as intercept an errant airplane or 4? Odd eh? Let a student pilot or even a commercial pilot accidently wander into ANY restricted (military) airspace, at ANY altitude, and there are fighter jets on their ass in a nanosecond. Yet, all were missing on 9/11/01? Yep…very intentionally missing.
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Yes, that’s a major reason why I think Al Qaeda had inside help. I just can’t believe the incompetence could have been that monumental. Bush and Condoleeza (who could ever have imagined they would fly airplanes into buildings) Rice may be complete morons, but these defense systems were in place long before Bush took office and they were still staffed by the same people. It could only have been interference from above that prevented them from functioning normally.

cyrena,

The strongest voice I have heard against the inside job hypothesis is Richard Clark. He still attributes it to incompetence.

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

By yellowbird2525, August 11 at 8:07 am #


tony, your little well propaganda pablum might fool some folks but give me a break here! long been known for their freedom & democracy! 70% or MORE of the world consider Americans to be SLAVES, with nothing for the people at all & wonder WHY we put up with
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Oh, this is complete unsubstantiated nonsense. I understand that you are very upset by U.S. imperialism, but you sound completely hysterical. I think you should calm down, smoke a doobie, chill out. But go on ranting into the ether if you must. I won’t bother to respond any more.

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

The kind of criticism that comes from rense.com blurs important distinctions. For example, there is a big difference between Obama’s response to the Georgia-Russia conflict and McCain’s. Obama’s response involves alliances, consensus and international law. McCain’s response is pure unilateral U.S.-Israel exceptionalism, which is to say, pure imperialism.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/08/mccain_stays_to.html

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By yellowbird2525, August 11, 2008 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

tony, your little well propaganda pablum might fool some folks but give me a break here! long been known for their freedom & democracy! 70% or MORE of the world consider Americans to be SLAVES, with nothing for the people at all & wonder WHY we put up with it; SURPRISE! start reading other countries articles instead of the “political propaganda” crap dished out for the public! I was sure as heck surprized to find that not only do other countries know far more than the American public does, they THINK differently as well! They KNOW MORE about what goes on in the USA than it’s citizens do! and to SAY that “the whole world” would vote for Obama is so incredibly off the track you have to be a plant for the Gov & for Obama. Other countries CITIZENS such as FRANCE, want to do away with ALL politicians beginning with OURS as THEY are the ones who bought THEIR heads of country to go right along with Obama, Hillary, & Diane Fernsteins plans: remember the little meeting in California at Diane’s house after Obama won the nomination? Guess where he & Hillary went the next day; starts with a B; do YOU know the plans laid out for USA & the world from A to Z?

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By Tony Wicher, August 11, 2008 at 12:10 am Link to this comment

By Louise, August 10 at 3:08 pm

Louise,

I don’t trust rense.com. There is lots of hate, lots of anti-Semitism and a lack of fact-checking and genuine investigative reporting. The article you linked to hardly cites a single real fact.

The U.S. and Israel may have been involved, but I would like to see some proof, not one guy’s completely unsubstantiated opinion.

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By Robert, August 10, 2008 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

By Louise, August 10 at 3:08 pm #

Tony Wicher:

“Why not an American citizen?”

It’s the, “No blood on my hands,” thing. Giving the thumbs up to those who go ahead and slit the throat.

Some people enjoy slitting throats. Some people get off on money. And some just get off on power.
================================

Great comment Louise. After reading your comment I thought of all the blackmail & the cold blooded murders that our “American Citizens”, in the U.S. government, commit here at home and overseas in order to keep people quiet.

When you have time, click on the URL below to watch the video(s) & the related ones too; you will be surprised.

IT MAKES ONE WONDER WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE QUIET ABOUT WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION’S GANG HAVE BEEN UP TO IN THE LAST 7 PLUS YEARS. ARE PEOPLE SCARED OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY START TALKING? HMMM…I AM SURE THAT SOME OF THEM MAY BE READING LOTS OF THE COMMENTS ON TRUTHDIG! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

kay Griggs Talks: Desperate Wives (Blackmail In US Government 2 of 2) - 213 min - Apr 6, 2006
—————————-

“Kay Griggs, wife of colonel George Griggs, USMC (retired USMC Commandant): 29th Commandant of the Marine Corps, found her husband’s diary, which contains details of homosexual blackmail in the top ranks of the US Marine Corps and names leading politicians and military leaders. Kay Griggs’s information about the US government also comes from observations and people she met. She exposes initiation rituals, the raping of young men and blackmail and murders to keep people quiet. Much of this, according to Griggs, is related to secret society activity and she names figures like Henry Kissinger and a string of other top government individuals. This is part 2 of 2 of the full interview.”


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137016279925999679

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By Tony Wicher, August 10, 2008 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

Re yellowbird2525, August 10 at 2:24 pm

Alas, imperialism and democracy have both been parts of this country from the beginning. With the wind of Manifest Destiny at our backs, we slaughtered Indians from sea to shining sea, declared the whole Western Hemisphere to be our sphere of influence, and have since expanded to the point where we have military bases in over 100 countries around the world. The sun never sets on the American Empire. And yet, the American people have always been admired by the whole world for their freedom and their democracy, and in spite of Bush, might be again under an Obama presidency. If the people of the whole world got to vote, Obama would win by a huge landslide, that’s for sure.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2008 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

Jobart, part 1 of 2

You’re so on the mark here

•  “A very hard concept to accept for most people, but not hard for those that are not as “fully” trusting of their government, and those that are “really” in charge.”

It IS hard to accept, even for those of us who do know better, just because the reality is enough to terrorize the sanest among us. (which I’m not even claiming to be) and drive us crazy as well. It’s like, what’s worse..be in denial, or know the truth and not be able to do a damn thing about it? (In part out of fear of becoming one of the disappeared?)

But here’s a large part of the reason WHY I believe that some people –who don’t trust the government either, and who DO know what’s going on, still buy most of the 9/11 thing. Tony Wincher mentioned this in part, in his response to you about many of the other perfectly intelligent people who aren’t “seeing” it yet either. In fact, I’ve been working on this for the past several weeks, just because many, (if not most) of my own colleagues believe the basic story as well, and these are not dumb people, but rather highly educated, (well, their all academics). I’m not suggesting by any measure that ‘highly educated’ means highly intelligent, but my point is that THESE people know very well what is going on with the shadow government, and all that is up (or down) with that. And, while they *will* acknowledge the discrepancies in the official account, they still hold to the basic reason for the attacks based on the Blowback Theory.

Among that group we have many known scholars, (because it’s basically the ‘stance’ of the academic community) and I’ve been trying to find a way to reconcile that. Actually, I actually, I have already done that, but I’ve just not put it together in any sort of publishable form. Still, the short story goes kinda like this…

There *are* multiple reasons for a group such as al-Qaeda to have carried out such an attack. Political violence isn’t new, and the US has done much to enrage the rest of the world. It’s just that most of the rest of the world who have been persecuted by US imperialism and other tactics of the forced hegemony don’t routinely retaliate with such extreme measures. And that is specifically true of any attempts to retaliate against the lone or sole superpower left. This too makes sense, even for extremists that are psychologically impaired. (like bin Laden, who once considered initiating a war against Saddam Hussein, until he was advised that he had to be crazy. Saddam had a powerful army, and bin Laden had maybe 300 ‘warriors’ and no equipment).

That said, they aren’t so stupid as to be unaware of the fact that an attack (like the one they allegedly carried out) wouldn’t be immediately disrupted by the SUPREMELY SUPERIOR US DEFENSE SYSTEM. But somehow, that happened anyway. The supremely superior US defense system, was TOTALLY MIA for an hour and 45 minutes on 9/11/01. No NORAD, no anything, or anybody around to do something as simple as intercept an errant airplane or 4? Odd eh? Let a student pilot or even a commercial pilot accidently wander into ANY restricted (military) airspace, at ANY altitude, and there are fighter jets on their ass in a nanosecond. Yet, all were missing on 9/11/01? Yep…very intentionally missing.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2008 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

Jobart, part 2 of 2

But, I digress. The reason that so many scholars and even ‘terror experts’ are willing to buy the basic story line, is simply because there are reasons for such action, (at least in the minds of those who allegedly perpetrated them) and it’s not something that hasn’t occurred before. Terrorists engaged in political violence by means of asymmetrical warfare have obviously existed for a long time.

Consequently, many scholars stick to that line of reasoning, without acknowledgment of the scenario that I decided on long ago, which is: Yep, maybe some ‘terrorists’ did have such dream plans at one point, but Cheney et al stole their idea, and beat them to it. And, because even that had to be well planned, (and in advance) it leaves us to wonder if the standard ‘foreign’ terrorists had anything to do with it at all.

On the other hand, there is conveniently ZERO physical evidence left, so for the scholar committed to studying this and attempting to find some rational explanation, (besides the fact that our government in the form of the dictatorship would do it) the Blowback theory is the most comfortable fit. And, it does address at least a large portion of the fundamental reasons for this sort of “terrorism” in general.

On a different but equally important note…the West Coast of Mexico is sounding better and better. Seriously, my instinct for survival is still very strong, and there is less and less a chance of it happening here. I’d originally considered Canada, which I foolishly thought would be easier for my assimilation process. That isn’t really the case, all things considered, but specifically the money. My fixed income is fixed *LOW*.

So, can you keep me posted on what you might locate in the area? Maybe we could set up an ex-patriot colony or something? I could send the kids down first, (at least they speak Spanish) and get things set up. I’m serious, and not at all picky at this point. My only real requirement is internet connectivity. I’ve got the broadband wireless service, but I don’t know if that is available in Mexico. Maybe you all can check that out as well. As for the rest, fishing is always an option, unless Arnold Schwartzie manages to extend his damage that far down the coast.

So…lemme know.

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By Louise, August 10, 2008 at 4:08 pm Link to this comment

Tony Wicher:

“Why not an American citizen?”

It’s the, “No blood on my hands,” thing. Giving the thumbs up to those who go ahead and slit the throat.

Some people enjoy slitting throats. Some people get off on money. And some just get off on power.

That’s the way it works in organized crime. The money people. The ones who front for the corporation have to be able to say with a straight face, I didn’t do the murder. That’s why there are hit-men and other creepy types that crawl about in the night. They know they are safe, ‘cause the thumbs up guy isn’t going to blow his own cover by ratting them out.

You might find this interesting:  http://www.rense.com/general82/studp.htm

“The United States has a problem. Our nation cannot do anything right.  Nothing. We have a FUBAR strategic vision and a W FUBAR strategic plan.  I keep waiting for the UN, or G8, or some forum to demand that America change its name to the United States of Screw-Ups.

The Industrial Spin Cyclists of DC and their Zionist thug controllers are about to set a Gold Medal record of their own regarding little, but strategically-located Georgia. Yeah, those ‘geostrategically imperative pipelines’ are a bitch when someone starts playing games with a Superpower like Russia.

I was flabbergasted listening to a Georgian member of parliament being interviewed on BBC. The CIA must have done a “Jason Bourne thing” on his head. He was asked why Georgia would pull such a stupid stunt as attack, invade South Ossetia and kill Russian peacekeeper soldiers.

This idiot MP from Georgia did not even deny that Georgia attacked first, invaded South Ossetia or killed Russians. What he could not provide was even a ‘half-assed excuse’ as to why Georgia was dumb enough to do so.  Apparently, he is out of the CIA-Zionist-Mossad loop.”

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By PatrickHenry, August 10, 2008 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

Lets waterboard Lt. Col Zack for a while and see what he knows.

I recommend a Guantanamo tour for Zack, Feith, Perle, Zakheim and the other PNAC and pentagon office of special plans people.  Maybe starting Jan 21.

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By yellowbird2525, August 10, 2008 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

I am CERTAINLY not going to vote for McCain; but DEMCRACY means MORE than “voting”; it is THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE of the nation: which has been ignored by Gov for years; intestingly enough Hillary Clinton is the only one who MENTIONED this in her Puerto Rico visit; but 67% of Americans do NOT like EITHER candidate choice “presented” to us; and these are NOT the only 2 running; but “we” are told no media time print or air is going to be given to other “shadowy” groups; my ancestors on my fathers side were screwed royally (indians); my ancestors on my mothers side (on Mayflower) have been royally screwed by this Gov; http://www.time.com has an interesting “postcard” on Iraqi’s problems at the gas stations; under Saddam gas was 5 cents a liter; with the “new” Gov set up with USA Gov & “contractors” they are paying $1.42 a gallon & have to wait in long lines reminiscent of here in 1970’s; same old tricks; THIS is what “going global” means; lets see: mexico, canada, france, italy, S. Africa, blocked in India & “suddenly” bombings begin; how many countries did Hitler start taking over before they stopped him?

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By Tony Wicher, August 10, 2008 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment

[Or, The Strike on USS Liberty]

It took an expert. An expert with plenty of time. Ample resources and the go-ahead. Probably someone not an American citizen, and probably someone in a group well-experienced in espionage and terrorism, with a well financed government behind them. Probably some of the same players who helped the players here pull off 9/11.
—————————————————————————-
Why not an American citizen? I figure the USS Liberty was Johnson and MacNamara’s idea - the same people that killed Kennedy and manufactured the Gulf of Tonkin incident which got us into Vietnam. The idea was to have a pretext for military invasion of the Middle East - then same as now. They got the cooperation of Moshe Dayan and some other Zionist nutbags, then same as now. But the Russians showed up and they couldn’t finish sinking the Liberty, so they had to abort.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2008 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

Louise,


•  “Not when you’re trying to frame someone to look like an al-Qaeda/Iraq opperative. Just one more example of how those who actually did do this, failed to tie up all the lose ends. But then they never did on the 9/11 attack either and people bought that.”

Exactly!! Clumsy dumb ass criminals. The thing is that people may have bought this, because there just aren’t that many experts or people in the field of such stuff, that they would easily buy it. (I mean, how much do any of us know about biological/chemical weaponry? That’s a far cry from the number of people with limited as well as extensive knowledge to the workings of the aviation industry, both commercial and military. So, I don’t understand at all, how so many folks bought the story of 9/11 after watching those buildings explode, and not seeing a sliver of any physical evidence that those airplanes came anywhere near the Pentagon, or that field in PA.

That aside, I wonder if the FBI ever even consulted with Richard Spertzel at the time? Or…any of the handful of others that could actually have accomplished this?

I haven’t read the link yet, but I’d be interested to know.

Thanks.

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By Louise, August 10, 2008 at 12:22 pm Link to this comment

“According to the FBI, Ivins made the killer anthrax in his lab at Fort Detrick all by himself in something like 12 hours (pages 8-9).

Is that plausible?

Well, one of the handful of people who actually can produce the kind of high-tech weaponized anthrax used in the attacks said:

“In my opinion, there are maybe four or five people in the whole country who might be able to make this stuff, and I’m one of them,” said Richard O. Spertzel, chief biological inspector for the U.N. Special Commission from 1994 to 1998. “And even with a good lab and staff to help run it, it might take me a year to come up with a product as good.”

In addition, scientists at Ft. Detrick say that no one there had the equipment or knowledge to make weaponized anthrax of the type used in the letters (more on this in a later esay).

If it would take one of the handful of people who have the know-how and a good lab with staff a year, and if no one at Ivins’ lab knew how to do it, how could Ivins have made it all by himself in 12 hours without the proper equipment?”
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/08/proof-that-ivins-couldnt-have-done-it.html

~~~

So, if the FBI has been investigating this since 2001, how come they didn’t know that?

Of course they had to know that.

Most likely none of the handful of people who actually can produce the kind of high-tech weaponized anthrax used in the attacks, could legitimately be considered a suspect.

Not when you’re trying to frame someone to look like an al-Qaeda/Iraq opperative. Just one more example of how those who actually did do this, failed to tie up all the lose ends. But then they never did on the 9/11 attack either and people bought that.

[Or, The Strike on USS Liberty]

It took an expert. An expert with plenty of time. Ample resources and the go-ahead. Probably someone not an American citizen, and probably someone in a group well-experienced in espionage and terrorism, with a well financed government behind them. Probably some of the same players who helped the players here pull off 9/11.

Hmmm, wonder who that could be!

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By Tony Wicher, August 10, 2008 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

Re jobart, August 10 at 7:57 am #

BTW- Is Scheer just wrong here or is he a schill?
————————————————————————-
jobart,

I think he’s just wrong, that is, he is just one of those Americans that has still not quite gotten his head around just how mad the world has gone. It took me several years to get to that point. Let’s send him email and keep working on him as we do others, like Chomsky, who haven’t quite gotten there yet. Let’s not call them “gatekeepers” or anything like that. This is honestly the state of their consciousness. As the Bush administration winds to a close, the facts are coming out. They will eventually get on board.

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By jobart, August 10, 2008 at 8:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena stated :But like you, I want to know what’s happened to all of the Disappeared Americans, beginning with the passengers and crew of those 4 jetliners that ‘disappeared’ on 9/11.

Just yesterday I was discussing the “9/11” atrocity with a person who still “believed” the lies that surround this false flag operation. She asked me the same question that is always at the crux of the fairy tale…“what about the passengers that were killed”? I responded as you inquired above.  That they were simply “disappeared”. A very hard concept to accept for most people, but not hard for those that are not as “fully” trusting of their government, and those that are “really” in charge. It is a sad state of affairs that most Americans cannot fathom that they are being deceived and shown only what “they” want them to believe.  But that cannot change the truth.  I’m thinking about a little place on the west coast of Mexico.

BTW- Is Scheer just wrong here or is he a schill?

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By radiodujour, August 9, 2008 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Alex Jones was joined on air by Francis A. Boyle, a leading American professor, practitioner of and expert on international law to discuss his detailed knowledge of the cover up of the 2001 anthrax attacks, which he believes were perpetrated by criminal elements of the US government in an attempt to foment a police state by killing off opposition to hardline post 9/11 legislation.

http://www.radiodujour.com/people/boyle_francis/

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By Tony Wicher, August 9, 2008 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment

Re Robert, August 9 at 7:40 am #


Great intel, Robert. This rings very true to me. I just wonder how many other things that “shop” of Cheney’s was into. Maybe more than forging false information. I bet it was into all kinds of dirty tricks. Like anthrax, for example. Like blowing up buildings.

It’s all coming out, I think, I hope, I pray. The lid is coming off as they lose their power, and it will get blown all the way off after November.

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By Tony Wicher, August 9, 2008 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

yellowbird2525,

Just relax, man and vote for Obama this November!

Peace.

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By yellowbird2525, August 9, 2008 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment

BOTH parties are involved: and AT&T;& the other Corps brought THEIR lawyers right to Congress to have dictated how the amnesty was going to be worded; it passed; due to the FRAUD of chemicals & the FDA overriding & hiding TRUTH from the people so many folks are going to make it yourself; that Clorox bought Burt Bee’s previously organic & congress obligingly wrote a law that ingredients no longer have to be on labels; Austrailia alerted me to the FACT that “baking soda” is full of fillers; so, gave me the TECHNICAL NAME to look for; WHY? cuz the FDA allows up to 50% of other things to be added & still label it as “pure”; Arm & Hammer backing soda; YIKES!; just like honey; & multiple other things; democracy has become the most despised name on the planet; synonomous with DECEIT, & TRICKERY which by the way is the very defintion of reason with a T in front of it; there were no laws against it; emailed Congress with “been up to trickery boys?” and explained that WE THE PEOPLE could “make up some laws”; wonder what other countries KNOW about our BEEF to picket the streets for 4 months now, (S Korea) that WE do NOT KNOW: but then, that IS the reason for MEDIA CONTROL as started drastically by CLINTON when in office right? the “truth is relative” means whatever they can get away with saying to cause YOU to believe is TRUTH; or that they are gods & whatever they say “is truth”; YOU decide; and yes, they ALL need to be fired; prosecuted by International Court (which they are ignoring) cuz they are ALL guilty of crimes against humanity & war crimes folks; WAKE UP & SMELL the COFFEE!

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By Tony Wicher, August 9, 2008 at 11:43 am Link to this comment

By Lefty, August 9 at 6:10 am #


By Tony Wicher, August 8 at 3:53 pm #

“. . . (Remember, business owners are people too!) . . .”
***************************************
OK, Tony!  You had my attention until you spouted that hot, steamy, pant load!  Business owners . . . people?!?!? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (shiver)! 

Anyway!  I wish I had your confidence that Obama will break the corporate chains that bind us.  Remember when Reagan said that he was going to “get big government off of our backs.” No one asked him the obvious question, which was, when you neuter the government, and corrupt it’s regulatory agencies, then WHO IS GOING TO KEEP BIG CORPORATIONS OFF OF OUR BACKS.

You see, Tony, the corporatist, fascists have us by the government (read: by the short and curlies).  And we can’t just vote them out of office!  I have confidence that Obama can stop the momentum, and maybe even reverse course.  But, IMO, it will take 20-30 years of uninterrupted liberal rule to undo what corporatist fascists have done, and make it stick!  But, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
—————————————————————————-
Lefty,

I don’t think we disagree. Firstly, Obama represents business interests too, just a different, and I would argue, far more benign set of business interests. Secondly, I am not expecting some magic starting the minute Obama gets in, but I am hoping for a slow reversal in the direction of progress.

Check out this clip from the Obama site:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/actionwiremedia

People who can’t see any difference between Obama and McCain are blind and deaf.

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By cann4ing, August 9, 2008 at 11:32 am Link to this comment

From Robert’s link:

“On Tuesday, the White House released a statement on Richer’s behalf. In it, Richer declared, “I never received direction from George Tenet or anyone else in my chain of command to fabricate a document ... as outlined in Mr. Suskind’s book.”

“The denial, however, directly contradicts Richer’s own remarks in the transcript.

“Now this is from the Vice President’s Office is how you remembered it—not from the president?” Suskind asked.

“No, no, no,” Richer replied, according to the transcript. “What I remember is George [Tenet] saying, ‘we got this from’—basically, from what George said was ‘downtown.’”

“Which is the White House?” Suskind asked.

“Yes,” Richer said. “But he did not—in my memory—never said president, vice president, or NSC. Okay? But now—he may have hinted—just by the way he said it, it would have—cause almost all that stuff came from one place only: Scooter Libby and the shop around the vice president.”

“But he didn’t say that specifically,” Richer added. “I would naturally—I would probably stand on my, basically, my reputation and say it came from the vice president.”

“But there wasn’t anything in the writing that you remember saying the vice president,” Suskind continued.

“Nope,” Richer said.

“It just had the White House stationery.”

“Exactly right.”

So I can see the fall-back spin now.  Scooter did it.  George will pardon Scooter for his crime.  Darth Cheney walks away, again!

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By Robert, August 9, 2008 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

Tape: Top CIA official confesses order to forge Iraq-9/11 letter came on White House stationery

John Byrne
Published: Friday August 8, 2008

“In damning transcript, ex-CIA official says Cheney likely ordered letter linking Hussein to 9/11 attacks

A forged letter linking Saddam Hussein to the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks was ordered on White House stationery and probably came from the office of Vice President Dick Cheney, according to a new transcript of a conversation with the Central Intelligence Agency’s former Deputy Chief of Clandestine Operations Robert Richer.”

“The transcript was posted Friday by author Ron Suskind of an interview conducted in June. It comes on the heels of denials by both the White House and Richer of a claim Suskind made in his new book, The Way of The World. The book was leaked to Politico’s Mike Allen on Monday, and released Tuesday.”

“The bogus memo claimed that 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta had received training in Baghdad but also discussed the arrival of a “shipment” from Niger, which the Administration claimed had supplied Iraq with yellowcake uranium—based on yet another forged document whose source remains uncertain.

The memo subsequently was treated as fact by the British Sunday Telegraph, and cited by William Safire in his New York Times column, providing fodder for Bush’s efforts to take the US to war.”

“My source also notes that Dick Cheney, who was behind the forgery, hated and mistrusted the Agency and would not have used it for such a sensitive assignment,” the magazine wrote. “Instead, he went to Doug Feith’s Office of Special Plans and asked them to do the job. … It was Feith’s office that produced the letter and then surfaced it to the media in Iraq. Unlike the [Central Intelligence] Agency, the Pentagon had no restrictions on it regarding the production of false information to mislead the public. Indeed, one might argue that Doug Feith’s office specialized in such activity.”

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Tape_Top_CIA_officer_confesses_order_0808.html

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By cyrena, August 9, 2008 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

Yellowbird,

I -for one at least- believe you. I’ve noted all of the same myself, and over an extended period of time, beginning back in December, 2000.

Many of those ‘disappeared Americans’ (not all, but many) have simply begun to blend into the shadows, and have become part of the scenery, generally unnoticed by those who don’t pay much attention. But, I see it. It’s nearly impossible to miss these days, except for those who never leave their gilded and gated communities.

But like you, I want to know what’s happened to all of the Disappeared Americans, beginning with the passengers and crew of those 4 jetliners that ‘disappeared’ on 9/11.

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By yellowbird2525, August 9, 2008 at 1:13 am Link to this comment

One lady in Isreal stated that what WE are shown on TV as being true in Isreal is not; she said “by the time the American people WAKE UP and REALIZE what is going on in their country; it will be to late.” The “housing” crisis: folks: there are LAWS in place to PREVENT from happening what is happening with both homes & banks; has been since the Great Depression; truckers say “it is far worse than they are saying”; millions of American’s apparently just “walked” away from their homes: leaving Family Bibles, pictures, clothes, furniture, plates etc; what is being SHOWN repeatedly the same place again & again showing “destruction” of a property, and trying to say “many” are this way: is a LIE. 90 percent of 1 community in Ohio was this way folks: leaving animals etc all behind just like went out to MacDonald’s for a big Mac; WHERE ARE THE MISSING AMERICANS? THAT is my battle cry! Seventy percent or more of the world sees the USA as being the bully, tyrant, & terrorists; there were no WMD, there WAS no link at all found in Iraq & Al Quada in depth study determined; now, just like has been said all along: they are going to attack Iran; predicted now for several years; isn’t it just amazing! BTW, USA went to Saddam & loaded him up with weapons to overthrow democracy Gov & set up dictatorship of the Shah; we have a PATTERN of doing this; tho the PEOPLE are told “we keep the PEACE” and are good; check it out for yourselves; then let EVERYONE know what YOU have found out.

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By yellowbird2525, August 9, 2008 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

do you remember seeing the “monks” from Tibet rioting, burning & looting? or recall the commercial re these type of monks who carefully do not harm anything at all and are horrified to discover they “killed a germ” when using Kleenex? does this even make sense to you? it is like watching a baby deer chase down & tear the throat out of a goat; DOES NOT COMPUTE! the TRUTH was: the REAL monks were begging journalists for help; it wasn’t us! it wasn’t us! It was someone made up TO LOOK like us! But of course, there was nothing they could do; and so the monks were dealt with; exterminated; whatever you wish to call it; this was a WESTERN trick folks; NOT an Eastern one; alarm bells going off yet anyone? how many times have you read “terrorists look just like us?’ and if you got emails from newsmax & others you would have caught that Obama stated (and I am sure they have “videos” to back it up just like they did of the monks: Americans are ripping babies out of mothers arms! they (immigrants] are having to take refuge in churchs! this will NOT be tolerated! the AMERICAN CITIZENS are the TERRORISTS!

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By yellowbird2525, August 9, 2008 at 12:56 am Link to this comment

All is NOT gloom & doom because the whole world knows the TRUTH except Americans; I just learned about a lot of this very recently; what caught MY attention was other countries talking genocide in the USA & what was being done in Hitler’s day & how it was being carried out today in the USA; I thought what is going on in MY country that I do not even KNOW about? Lou Dobb’s “war on the American Dream” supported what I saw happening which was the psychological & financial warfare being done to the citizens; the more I looked the more I found like an onion: with layers upon layers upon layers of lies, deception & deceit; Americans are told there are 2 choices: HERE, (which is democracy which is freedom) OR ‘communism”; THIS IS A LIE! we are told “this is the way “democracy” works; THAT is a lie; Iraqi’s said: this is DICTATORSHIP & far worse & hundreds of times WORSE than it ever was under Saddam Hussain; we wish HE were alive again, cuz while BAD under him not NEARLY as bad as THIS is! NOTE: SAME set up as here in USA; SAME large Corp’s; what was happening? lots of money for the “powerful political elites” and their friends & families; “couldn’t make up minds due to problems with other members of Congress (sound familiar); in 5 years: gas was now being charged at $1.36 a gallon (previously filled up tanks for 55 cents; and “ha ha ha the people didn’t think that they should be taxed!” said the politicians here; they SHOULDN’T be; so: Bush said “we prefer to be called dysfunctional” and called in the Pope for a visit after their writers & publishing company put out a book “escape from Mayham”; there ARE other parties besides the 2 of them; and this whole system of Gov needs to be changed; completely;

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By cyrena, August 9, 2008 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

By Tony Wicher, August 8 at 10:00 pm #

yellowbird,

So what are you saying, all is lost? Obama’s as bad as McCain, a pox on all their houses? What’s your point?

~~~~~

Point? I’m not sure there is one.

This stuff is beginning to sound very much in the Max Shields vein. Not QUITE as bad…at least not yet. But, for whatever the reason, yellowbird seems to be working in that direction.

I’m not sure whether it’s some sort of infection or what, but there’s been an increase in this ‘everything is doomed’ mentality. I have to concede that there’s certainly reason for the negativism, but I’m not so sure that most of it isn’t intentionally devious.

That’s not to say that I’m accusing yellowbird of such tactics, since he/she seems to actually believe that we aren’t aware of all of these things. (like what Bill Moyers and others have been shedding light on for years).

But the same cannot be said for the likes of others, who appear quite determined to POX it all, even though I believe the real focus is Obama. They much be in the “Stop Him Now” group.

This isn’t the same as the ‘glass half empty’ group though, or even the ‘glass is bottomed out’ group. The “bottomed out glass group” of the “Bitter Bone Marrow” are just that…bitter and bottomed out. They have nothing useful to contribute.

So again…no point.

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment

yellowbird2525, August 8 at 7:53 pm #


tony said: we are as enslaved as we want to be; lets see: our forefathers set this country up for all things to be paid for by profits from big businesses; instead, the people are being taxed now 41% & it will go up to 65 percent by the end of 4 years; JUST for federal; we are also paying extra charges & have been for years for electricity & gas; we are now getting a rate increase because WE are now paying all Corporations taxes; the PEOPLE being taxed was a 1 time thing very small put on to help the country after the war; Congress ILLEGALLY put it on the people with the STATES jumping on board later; 1st, we do this; THEN we do this;
————————————————————————-
So, we also elected the Congress that has done these things, so we deserve what we get. Stupid, aren’t we?

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

By yellowbird2525, August 8 at 8:14 pm #


I suggest you go to http://www.pbs.com; and check out Bill Moyers Capitol Crimes to see how the Gov works; guarentteed to make you ill; the FDA is a JOKE folks:
——————————————————————————-
This is supposed to be news to us? Think we don’t watch Bill Moyers?

I will bet you anything that Bill Moyers is going to vote for Obama. Why, because, among other things, Bill Moyers knows that Obama will restore the integrity of the FDA against the influence of big Pharma, and that he will generally clean house in the whole government. I am hopful he will succeed in restoring government regulation in the interests of the general public to where it was before Reagan got in. That’s where it really started to go downhill. Reagan cut taxes, starved the government to death, and sold it off piece by piece to corporations. The economy as a whole will benefit from a restoration of honest regulations, both people and businesses, and that’s why it’s going to happen, even if the big Pharma and medical insurance lobby try to stop it.

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

yellowbird,

So what are you saying, all is lost? Obama’s as bad as McCain, a pox on all their houses? What’s your point?

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 10:48 pm Link to this comment

By yellowbird2525, August 8 at 8:05 pm #


you state Obama will do something; THE AGENDA IS ALREADY being worked out; down the list; getting worse & worse & worse; his platform re change is IDENTICAL to that of Bush
——————————————————————————-
yellobird,

Only if seen through ideological glasses such as yours, which abstract from everything that might make them different. To those who can see clearly without preconceptions there are plenty of differences.

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By yellowbird2525, August 8, 2008 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

I suggest you go to http://www.pbs.com; and check out Bill Moyers Capitol Crimes to see how the Gov works; guarentteed to make you ill; the FDA is a JOKE folks: refusing to let the TRUTH be seen in media, magazines, tv, or newspapers; then go to newsmax.com & see how the World Bank fired the head to prevent him from stopping the same graft & corruption there that is going on in the USA; because it STARTED here; Federal law states that STOCKHOLDERS come FIRST; before the people of the USA; hence the high prices of gas & groceries; Pres of Shell oil company openly admitted on Charlie Rose show that it is the price it is to make some folks wealthy; LOOK at American car companies promoting $2.99 a gallon GUARENTEED for 36 months b/4 gas was even that high; how could they know? a psychic? NO; Price controlled by Gov in bed with Saudi Arabia; At energy committee a man said there is a KIT you can easily convert from oil to natural gas or hydrogen for UNDER $100.00; he suggested a “rebate” like the one on the HDTV they are forcing us into; why? cuz the PEOPLE had paid for cable for so long it should be free; ok; then we will use THAT network for military & the people will PAY for HDTV. Are you so blind you don’t see that states & fed have a very great deal of $ hidden away? But of course, single parents raising kids have to pay $25 out of every $400 in child support to “balance” the budget; & every other item on it was AGAINST the people of this country. Check it out for yourself; then understand: it is very incredibly easy to manipulate numbers;

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By yellowbird2525, August 8, 2008 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

you state Obama will do something; THE AGENDA IS ALREADY being worked out; down the list; getting worse & worse & worse; his platform re change is IDENTICAL to that of Bush; sometimes verbatim; I will unite the parties THEY ARE UNITED with the wealthy & the Corps & it is AGAINST the people of the USA; the Corps work together folks; wake up & SMELL THE COFFEE! The chemical companies work with the manufacturers of clothing, furniture, drapes, etc; usually with humungous amounts of formaldehyde which by the way is in your shampoos, conditioners, soap you wash with, INCLUDING Johnson & Johnson’s baby shampoo; fragrances manmade in labs to cause the MOST MEDICAL DAMAGE they can do, it’s in baby formula, along with growth hormones, other toxins, & 52% sugar, all to MAKE YOU ILL; salt: ha that is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the public said one doctor; all is stripped from it; and “iodine” put on which turns to POISON in your system 15 minutes after ingesting it to cause the most harm it can; WHY? for the PHARMA companies who have 2 lobbyists per Congressperson: we pay an average of 600,000 TIMES the cost of meds; doc offices are paid if they meet QUOTAS of PRESCRIPTIONS; and MEGA PRIZES for “pill of the month”; lawyers firms collect & keep over 2/3’s of amounts when found to “harm & kill”; $4 a month generics they STILL MAKE MEGABUCKS off the citizens of USA; it is a ROUND ROBIN affair of Corps & Gov working criminally to harm & exploit the people of the USA to the maximum degree. Both parties folks; it’s a “sham” to FOOL the public into “thinking” there is a difference; a “dog & pony show”;

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By yellowbird2525, August 8, 2008 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

tony said: we are as enslaved as we want to be; lets see: our forefathers set this country up for all things to be paid for by profits from big businesses; instead, the people are being taxed now 41% & it will go up to 65 percent by the end of 4 years; JUST for federal; we are also paying extra charges & have been for years for electricity & gas; we are now getting a rate increase because WE are now paying all Corporations taxes; the PEOPLE being taxed was a 1 time thing very small put on to help the country after the war; Congress ILLEGALLY put it on the people with the STATES jumping on board later; 1st, we do this; THEN we do this; NOW there is sales taxes; NOW is the time for us to pay Corporations taxes just like Reagan stated: Corporations should not have to pay taxes; they don’t any more do they; and WHAT do the people have? NOTHING. And the plan is for them to have less & less & less; hence, the higher gas prices & food prices; why? cuz we are busy running around the world paying high sums to the heads of countries telling THEM they are the “powerful political elites” that can do whatever they want to and not be charged with anything; many are taking the $ & putting it in the off shore accounts & the people are up in arms; “but we’ve done it to the Americans for years & gotten away with it” is said over & over & over; ALL nations SEE us as being virtual slaves with NOTHING; WE HAVE NO HEALTH COVERAGE! and to boot, if you DO have it the Federal LAW states well as the California Senator explained it best: you are covered until you get ill; THEN the companies do NOT have to pay to cover ANYTHING at all (contrary to the coverage you have in your hand) IF it effects their profits; what are the ODDS? Oh, not all companies do this, explained the St Insurance lady from Calif (as seen on the M&J;morning show;) a woman’s husband had gotten ill & been denied repeatedly medical coverage that could have saved his life; she felt they killed him due to failing to provide the health insurance coverage she had which stated that they were covered; but hey, we only are enslaved to the extent WE want to be? YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE of what you are talking about.

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By folktruther, August 8, 2008 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you for informing me, cann4ing, thatthe vast majority of lawyers are appalled by the right wing assault on the Constitution and rule of law.  You are quite right, I didn’t have a clue.  My wife happesns to be an appelate lawyer, after previously having done capital cases, so I happen to know a lot of attorneys.  My impression was that most of them didn’t give a shit one way or the other as to what happened politically as long as it didn’t personally affect them.

I must have been wrong, being clueless. So it must be the case that the professional associations of the lawyers are up in arns over the transformation of the US into a police state, since the lawyers are so appalled.  But I don’t have a clue that this is the case.  The Bushites didn’t seem to have a lot of trouble recruiting lawyers.

I always thought that law was a conservative profession, like the clergy, or medicine, and that that Educated professionals favored the political status quo. 

Certainly clerics, dentists, doctors, and journalists are taught to tend to defend their professions, I wonder if your defense of lawyers… no, I’m probably relapsing in psychobabble again.

As to this judge being forced to preside over this trial, I don’t have a clue why.  Torture, do you think?  Why didn’t he say, fuck you, I’m not going to participate in this legalfraud.  Well, he could say it in a more Educated and Legal way of course.  After all, he went to the same kind of law school that you did.

Do you think that may be part of the problem?  Or is this more psychobabble.

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By cyrena, August 8, 2008 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment

Robert,

Just wanted to ditto cann4ing on those military lawyers representing the detainees. Were it not for them, all habeas corpus would have evaporated, which was always the intention of the thugs.

These lawyers, (both military and civilian) have gone above and beyond even the call of their oaths, because of the huge obstacles placed in the path of justice and the rule of law, by the fascists who highjacked us in 2000.

So I think you can be certain that these lawyers were NOT selected by the dick bush thug regime, because they’ve done much personal sacrifice of their own, (including their careers) to uphold their oaths to their professions, and to the constitution, and to humanity.

On the opposite side of the profession, you have the John Yoos and others of his ilk, whose names escape me at the moment. Still, it’s critical for us all to know the difference.

Ernest, thanks for the excellent analysis.

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

If we the people are in chains, we have enslaved ourselves, because there is no one else to enslave us. We the people are as free as we deserve to be, and as enslaved as we deserve to be. It’s up to us. There is nobody else to blame. We the people were corrupt enough to allow the Bush-Cheney gang to get in, and this is what we get. If there is any integrity left in our alleged democracy, Obama represents what’s left of it. If we allow McCain to get in we will deserve what we will then get, more war and further economic and social decline. With Obama you will see a turn in the right direction. For example, you are going to see government-subsidized universal health care in some form. Why, because not only “the people” in general but also the businesses Obama represents want it. (Remember, business owners are people too!) You are going to see a less military, more diplomatic and peace-oriented foreign policy under Obama. Why, because not only the (rest of the) people but also the businesses Obama represents are being hurt by the high price of oil, caused by the the current foreign policy that is filling the coffers of the businesses that McCain, Bush and Cheney represent. You are also going to see a policy that will seriously reduce our dependence on oil for the same reasons. With Bush/Cheney/McCain you obviously won’t. This is nothing but good dialectical materialism, right?

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By cann4ing, August 8, 2008 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Whether you post as Ghengis or as Folktruther, the fact is that you just don’t have a clue.  Yes, American culture is imbued with anti-Arab & anti-Muslim racist sentiments—a fact well documented by Prof. Jack Shaheen in both his documentary and book entitled “Reel Bad Arabs” in over 1,000 films he studied dating back to the earliest silent films of the late 19th Century.

Yes, the military commissions system is a complete farce—straight out of Kafka—a fact recognized not only by civilian attorneys like myself, but by the detainees’ military lawyers, who, along with the ACLU & Center for Constitutional Rights were the ones successfully challenging that system and the denial of habeas corpus in the U.S. Supreme Court.

What you apparently do not understand is that the JAG lawyers attended the same law schools as the civilian lawyers.  They all swore allegiance not to the fascists who seized control of our government via electoral fraud and a judicial coup aka Bush v. Gore, in 2000.  (Not all lawyers have remained true to that oath, as attested to by those who authorized apologia for torture in the Justice Department, but the vast majority of attorneys in this nation, both military and civilian, are appalled by the right wing assault on the constitution and the rule of law.) 

As military lawyers and judges these members of the bar were forced to operate in this alien quasi-judicial system, but that does not mean that they abandoned their basic humanity.

If you had been more careful in reading what was posted, you would have immediately recognized that this was “not” an instance of the Stockholm syndrome.  Mr. Hamdan did not say “Inshallah” because he “identified with” his “oppressor.”  He said it because Captain Allred expressed the hope that Mr. Hamdan would soon be re-united with his family.  Captain Allred obviously understood that Mr. Hamdan is the victim of unfortunate circumstances, a man, who, as Osama bin Laden’s driver, should no more be blamed for 9/11 than one of the White House cooks should be blamed for Bush’s ordering the imperial conquest of Iraq.

When Capt. Allred responded, “Inshallah,” it was the precise opposite of the Stockholm syndrome.  It was a reflection of the empathy he sincerely felt for what has happened to another human being—that Captain Allred made that expression in Arabic reflects that he, Capt. Allred, wanted to maximize whatever little comfort he could offer to this most unfortunate man.

So quit with the dime store psycho-babble.  It is neither helpful nor appreciated.

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By folktruther, August 8, 2008 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment
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Your point about the preference for ‘the people’ rather than ‘the masses’ is a good one, Tony.

Your point that the judge seems like a nice guy entirely misses the whole point of the power process.Suppose he is, which I am willing to grant.  That makes his participation in this judicial farce morally worse, not better.  Eichman was apparently an honorable man in private life, and a good family man.  Should that be a point in his defense, or is this indicate that is moral depravity was greater.

Scheer’s sanitizing the hounding to death or the murder of Ivins was considered an intellectual weakness or an aberration.  I don’t believe it for a minite.  I’ve read his columns in the LATime which were more sophisticated but which always stopped short of challenging the system.  Both the judge and Scheer are implicitly justifying the unjustifiable, and they are both morally and politially culpable.

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Re Folktruther, August 8 at 12:02 pm #

I don’t like that terminology of “the masses”. I much prefer “the people” - as in “we, the people”. “The masses” sounds like you’re talking about somebody else, some unintelligent herd that needs to be led, presumably by a smart, politically perceptive intellectual like yourself, the vanguard of the working class, as it were. It’s the kind of thinking that led to the Soviet Union, may it rest in peace. It’s elitist and anti-democratic.

“The people” is much better, because it includes us. It even includes rich and powerful people, because they are people too, each one of them a human being, some good and socially responsible and some greedy pigs, just as we find in lower economic strata of society.  It also includes that judge, who is a human being like us, and not the two-dimensional cartoon that you paint. Some judges are assholes and some aren’t. This one apparently still has some respect for the Constitution. He does not have the power to release Hamdan. As long as the presidency is controlled by the Bush-Cheney gang Hamdan will not be released. When (and if) Obama gets in, I predict he will shortly (and quietly) order Hamdan’s release.

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By Folktruther, August 8, 2008 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment

I formerly commented as Genghis, now, for reasons I don’t understand, as folktruther.

Cann4ing, undoubtedly a decent person, as most people are, found the exchange between the defendant and military judge heartwarming.  It is precisely this identifying with one’s oppressors that has deformed the power systems of the world for thousands of years, (although I don’t hold cann4ing personally responsible for this.)

The military judge is a key member of a rigged show trial that exhibits a new form of American justice.  the defendent is not freed no matter what the verdict is in the trial.  This has occurred in an American citizen of Arab origin, a professor, who has been kept imprisoned despite serving an unjust sentence. And God knows how many other cases of this kind have been covered up in the mass media.

The billion and a half Muslims in the world do not like this, and think the US polity is anti-Muslim.  So the principles in this horrifying farce try to exonerate themselves in the public eye by being friendly to the victims they perscecute. Establishment liberals like Scheer identify with the FBI and the judges, and sanitize them. But there ane decent, politically backward, truthers like cann4ing are touched by the torturers giving a victim a smoke after tortuing him.

It is the latter emotion that keeps the masses in chains, which in the US is called Freedom.  People tend to identify with oppressive power.  The powerful must delude the population, through truthers like Scheer, to promote their policies, and people like cann4ing tend to want to be deluded.

This is prfectly natural, a biological-cultural tendency inherited from childhood according to Freud.  But it is the reason that innovation in power systems lag historically so far behind innovations in technology; people, with the best will in the world, tend to identify with their chains.

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By cann4ing, August 8, 2008 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

“At the sentencing hearing, military judge Captain Keith Allred said he hopes Hamdan will be allowed to return to his family in Yemen. Hamdan replied ‘Inshallah,’ Arabic for ‘God willing.’ Captain Allred replied back, ‘Inshallah.’”

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/8/headlines#1

With all the duplicity these past eight years emanating from the Bush regime; with all the anti-Muslim propaganda that has inundated America’s public airwaves, I found this interaction between the simple driver and the military judge assigned to his his case heart-warming.  It confirms that inside our military there is still decency and a recognition of a common humanity that persists no matter what these shameless propagandists have tried to sell us.  Kudos to you, Captain Allred.

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By Tony Wicher, August 8, 2008 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

Re cann4ing, August 8 at 6:36 am

Definitely. If McCain is elected, Hamdan will rot in jail, along with the U.S. Constitution. Which is why, no matter what flaws we may see in Obama, we must consider the alternative and support him to the max.

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By cann4ing, August 8, 2008 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

Tony, your optimism is grounded on the assumption that the next Commander-in-Chief is Barack Obama rather than John McSame.  But hey, you’ve given me a great idea for the next campaign slogan, “Free Salim!”

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By Genghis, August 7, 2008 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment
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The importance of the railroading of Ivins is that it contributes to the police state that the Bushites have installed with Dem and progressive complicity.  IF the FBI can do this to this guy, they can do it to anyone.  If it is sanitized and legitimated in the NYTimes and other mainstream emdia, as it is, and by pseudo-progressives like Scheer, it makes it easier to do it next time.  It ideological disarms the population and makes them resigned to doing nothing.

I don’t have anything against Scheer personally. He’s probably the same arrogant son of a bitch that I argued with in Berkeley forty years ago.  When he was fired from the LATimes I canceled my subscription and told them why.  When they called and argued, I said if they rehired Scheer I would resubscribe. (fat chance. Its now onwed by the Chicago Tribune company)

But what he has done in this article is help support an American police state.  Americans don’t understand that if the police accuse you for any reason, if the want a scapegoat as in this case, they can disappear, imprison, torture and kill you and there is no recourse in law because there is no law.  If they can get away with a travesty like this, and with journalists like Scheer they will, then there is no alternative but revolution.

By a rank and file progressive, Tony, I mean one who is not a leader of a group.  I don’t represent anyone but myself in these comments.

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By Sepharad, August 7, 2008 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment
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Fadel,
We have more common ground than it seems. I’ve read Menocal’s “The Ornament of the World” and many other books, as I know you have, about the many facets of Al Andalus. Because I don’t read Arabic, I’m sure I haven’t read as many of the primary sources as you, though when possible have tracked down those that were translated into English or Spanish. Was able to find much in the British Museum Library and more in the Islamic book stores of London (where my husband and I also found some very interesting and useful material on Arab horsemanship and horses)but wasn’t able to get to Spain until Dec. ‘01 where, among the physical remains of the various civilizations, it brought home very strongly how special, and fragile, the Islamic Golden Age truly was. The book I WANTED to write was to compare the intellectual riches of that time when Moslems, Jews, and perhaps to a lesser extent Christians produced something memorable together—to the less than promising societies all of us have developed since we became so far apart. The question I really wanted to find the answer to was “what happened?” So the Reconquista and the Inquisition drove both Moslems and Jews from Spain, leaving it an intellectual, agricultural and economic wasteland only saved from bankruptcy by the gold extracted from the New World by the conquistadors (children of the Reconquista fighters who had inherited nothing but the ability to conquer) ...  But what happened to make that environment and civilization apparently vanish and not reemerge elsewhere? My Iranian friends—most of them atheists disillusioned by the ayatollahs—simply shrug and say the enterprise of learning moved further east, to Persia. But I think that is overly simplistic. And since 9/11, so much has happened that it has been impossible for me to either pursue the question objectively or to write the book in a vacuum when the whole world seemingly is going insane.

Scholar Bernard Lewis, who has spent most of his life in the Middle East, who has great intimacy with and affectionate respect for its people, cultures and history, has been reduced to writing a slender book asking, simply, “What Went Wrong?” If he doesn’t know, it seems unlikely that I will be able to find any answers from history, though I do know that “what went wrong” is not a question that must only be addressed to Islamic society but equally to the West. (I do think I know what is wrong in Israel, and am heartened that my family and friends there, as well men such as Amos Oz, nonetheless remain both idealistic and pragmatic. Hopefully we will get our religious zealots under control. But because we’re pragmatic, we don’t delude ourselves with false hopes, and paranoia seems to be a realistic assessment of things as they are.) In any case, if you have any theories on why the spirit and inquiries of Al Andalus seemed to end when the geography changed, or if you don’t think they DID end ... I would be very interested.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

Sepharad,

Thanks for your support, and I am glad to see that you and Fadel are talking. Increase the peace!

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

By cann4ing, August 7 at 8:29 pm #

And now, the chief judge imposed a 5 1/2 sentence giving credit for five years time served, and telling Hamdan that he hoped he would soon be reunited with his family—“God willing.” So what did the military announced.  The sentence doesn’t mean anything.  They will keep Hamdan for as long as they desire to keep him.
——————————————————————————
Fadel, canning:

No they won’t. The military will release Hamdan when the Commander in Chief tells them to. We have less than 100 days to go. I predict Hamdan will be with his family in 6 months.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 9:40 pm Link to this comment

By Genghis, August 7 at 2:45 pm #

What do you mean, “rank and file progressives”? Are you one? Do you claim to represent such a group, whatever it is?

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By cann4ing, August 7, 2008 at 9:29 pm Link to this comment

Robert:  To appreciate the absurdity of the Hamdan trial, consider this:  Suppose the case were to be made that George W. Bush committed war crimes by authorizing water boarding, an internationally recognized form of torture.  But the international tribunal could not get its hands on Bush, so they arrested one of the White House cooks.

And now, the chief judge imposed a 5 1/2 sentence giving credit for five years time served, and telling Hamdan that he hoped he would soon be reunited with his family—“God willing.”  So what did the military announced.  The sentence doesn’t mean anything.  They will keep Hamdan for as long as they desire to keep him.

Finally, Robert, there were several very good lawyers working on his case.  The problem was not his lawyers, but the Kafka-like proceedings in which they were forced to operate.

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By Fadel Abdallah, August 7, 2008 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

By Sepharad, August 6 at 10:29 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Also: Fadel, though you and I are often in complete disagreement, you’re absolutely correct in objecting to the routine dismissal of domestic terrorists as psychological head-cases. As for international terrorists, you’re right again. It’s stupid to dismiss them as evil people who hate their targets’ way of life, and it drives me crazy every time Bush or anyone else says that. Religious fanaticism may be part of it but there’s usually, as you say, other grievances of a national, political, or—perhaps most especially—economic nature. When extreme religious beliefs and propaganda instead of education comes into play, however, it does muddy the waters. I think that the “evil” lies most heavily in the hearts of people who manipulate others into taking all the risks and spilling the blood. (As for Ms. Siddiqi, I’m not sure what she’s done or what her motives are—surely she was not corrupted by her Harvard and MIT educational experiences.
==============================
Sephared, I am pleased that you found some common grounds on which we agree. I also noted that we are both the students of Muslim Spain’s history (Al-Andalus.) The intellectual history of Muslim Spain was the focus of my graduate work at the PhD. level.

If you have not read “The Ornament of the World” by Maria Rosa Menocal, I recommend that you read it. Reading it with an open mind might broaden your horizon about the Arabs and Muslims and their contributions to world civilization and particularly their role in helping the revival and the flourishing of a Jewish culture which was facing the danger of distinction!

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By CDLEETH, August 7, 2008 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This will give you a more sinister and expanded view of this story.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

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By Robert, August 7, 2008 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

August 7, 2008

The Conviction of Salim Hamdan
Do You Feel Safe Now?

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

“Now that military officers selected by the Bush Pentagon have reached a split verdict convicting Salim Hamdan, a onetime driver for Osama bin Laden, of supporting terrorism, but innocent of terrorist conspiracy, do you feel safe?

Or are we superpower Americans still at risk until we capture bin Laden’s dentist, barber, and the person who installed the carpet in his living room?

The Bush Regime with its comic huffings and puffings is unaware that it has made itself the laughing stock of the world, a comedy version of the Third Reich.

Hamdan was not defended by the slick lawyers that got O.J. Simpson off, and he most certainly did not have a jury of his peers. Hamdan was defended by a Pentagon appointed US Navy officer, and his jurors were all Pentagon appointed US military officers with an eye on their careers. Even in this Kangaroo Court, Hamdan was cleared of the main charge.

The US Navy officer who was Hamdan’s appointed attorney is certainly no terrorist sympathizer. Yet even this United States officer said that the rules Bush designed for the military tribunals were designed to achieve convictions. He also said that the judge allowed evidence that would not have been admitted by any civilian or military US court. He said that the interrogations of Hamdan, which comprised the basis of the Bush Regime’s case, were tainted by coercive tactics, including sleep deprivation and solitary confinement.

Does this make you a proud American?

Do you think you are made more safe when you stand there while “your” government implements its own version of Joseph Stalin’s show trials?

The trial and conviction of Hamdan has made every American very unsafe.

The one certain fact about US law is that it is expanded until it applies to everyone. Consider RICO, for example, the asset freeze law that was intended only in criminal cases involving the Mafia; it wasn’t long before RICO found its way into civil divorce proceedings.

Bush’s multi-year, multi-billion dollar “war on terror” has been reduced to railroading a low level employee, a driver, for “terrorism.”

One would hope that the Hamdan verdict would be enough shame and ridicule for the US in one day. But no, Bush didn’t stop there. On his way to the Beijing Olympics, President Bush expressed “deep concerns” for the state of human rights in China.

But not in Guantanamo, nor in Abu Ghraib, nor in the CIA’s torture dungeons used for “renditions,” nor in Iraq and Afghanistan where the US is expert at bombing weddings, funerals, children’s soccer games, and every assortment of civilians imaginable.

As the good book says, clean the beam from your own eye before pointing to the mote in your brother’s eye.

But Americans, the salt of the earth, have neither beams nor motes. We are the virtuous few, ordained by God to impose our hegemony on the world. It is written, or so say the neocons.

What would President Bush say if, heaven forbid, the Chinese were as rude as he is and asked Mr. Superpower why the land of “freedom and democracy” has one million names on a watch list. China with a population four times as large doesn’t have a watch list with one million names.

What would President Bush say if China asked him why the US, with a population one-fourth the size of China’s has hundreds of thousands more of its citizens in prison? The percentage of Americans in prison is far higher than in China and is a larger absolute number.

What would President Bush say if China asked him why he used lies and deception to justify his invasion of Iraq. China, unlike Bush, is not responsible for 1.2 million dead Iraqis and 4 million displaced Iraqis.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08072008.html

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By Ed Harges, August 7, 2008 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

re: By cann4ing, August 7 at 2:17 pm:

Yeah, I agree. I don’t think Scheer has gone all evil on us or something. I just think he was sloppy and hasty here. He lapsed - it’s August; maybe he’s in semi-vacation mode. He sent this piece out without having done enough research and reflection. (If he decides to stay this superficial, maybe he could be a network news anchor - Katie Couric’s position is opening up, I hear.)

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

I see 9-11 and the Anthrax scare as part of an over-all picture of a coup attempt. The plane that crashed (or was shot down) in Pennsylvania was headed for Washington, probably the Capitol building. They had the anthrax scare for a backup. It was going to be the Reichstag fire times 1000. The objective was to set up an immediate military dictatorship.

I don’t agree with Chomsky or ITW who say that they would “have to be insane” to try such a thing. First, they are insane, and second, they have gotten away with it, at least so far. They think the people are stupid sheep who will believe anything and do what they are told, and so far they have been right. But maybe not this time. Maybe they have gone too far. It’s starting to come out.

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By Genghis, August 7, 2008 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cann4ing’s comment defending Scheer, which appears quite sincere, is precisely the problem. It is quite true that Scheer, as a mainstream progressie, objects to the truths of the mainstream conservatives.  But this is done within a highly restricted frame of reference, like the debate of the two political parties.  The presuppositions underlying the debate is held by BOTH sides of the debate.  Both support the US power system.

In this article, Scheer is legitmating the FBI’s hounding to death of a US citizen where no evidence except absurdities has been publically provided linking him to the crime.  His colleagues don’t believe a word of it, but Scheer simply ignores this.  He is on the side of the American power system currently headed by Superpresident Bush. 

In so doing, he sanitizes the possibility amounting to a liklihood that the 9/11-anthrax attacks were not only used by the Bushites to initiate the War on Terror, but elements of the Bushite leadership may well have helped orchestrate them.  But this would de-loegitimate American power, so Scheer publically excludes the possibility, as do progressives like Chomsky and Alexander Cockburn, who also critique specific policies.

The historical frunction of mainstream progressives is to disorient rank and file progressives, just as conservative leaders disorient rank and file conservatives.  Until the Internet is restricted, however, there is a growing dissent against left gatekeepers.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment

By cann4ing, August 7 at 2:20 pm #


The interesting thing, Cyrena, is that in attempting to close out the anthrax investigation, the government may have opened a can of worms.  This event gives a whole new impetus to reopening not only the anthrax investigation but the question of whether there was official complicity in 9/11 itself.
————————————————————————-
canning,

Yep, that’s my feeling as well. If the anthrax was an inside job, why not 9-11? Myself, I think the same people were involved.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

re cann4ing, August 7 at 2:17 pm

Again I agree. Ghenghis is being much too harsh on Scheer. He has been a strong critic of the government in many areas. Incidentally we owe him gratitude for maintaining this TD site where we can find other serious people to exchange views and information.

But this particualar article is cetainly very weak tea.

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By cann4ing, August 7, 2008 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

The interesting thing, Cyrena, is that in attempting to close out the anthrax investigation, the government may have opened a can of worms.  This event gives a whole new impetus to reopening not only the anthrax investigation but the question of whether there was official complicity in 9/11 itself.

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By cann4ing, August 7, 2008 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Ghengis, I respectfully disagree.  Robert Scheer has never shied away from challenging government lies.  Indeed, his “Five Greatest Lies” debunking the reasons given for invading Iraq was one of the first extended works on the subject.

In this instance, he was too quick to accept “official truth,” but I have no doubt that Robert Scheer possesses the intellectual integrity to later admit that he erred in doing so.

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By Genghis, August 7, 2008 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Scheer’s acceptance of Ivins as the Lone Assassin and his uncritical quoting of Dudley, who was instigated by the FBI to attack and hound him, is not a progressive aberration.  This kind of thing is routine among pseudo-progressives and mainstream truth agents and truth managers.

It is why the US truth consensus is delusive and childish.  The mainstream truth is used to confuse and disorient the population, largely by left gatekeepers who endorse the presuppositions of oppresive power.  Chomsky and Alexander Cockburn do exactly the same thing, although not so blatantly.

All governments lie.  So do their truth agents and truth managers.  And some of these are progressive truth leaders.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2008 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

Hi Guys,

Thanks for these additional links to the greewald piece. I’d read another a few days ago, when he was referencing the initial claim about bentonite and how it there was bentonite in the anthrax, and that Saddam was the only one who used it. (or, at least the language was situated in that context. Bentonite =Saddam)

That sounded totally bizarre from the gate, since the stuff is everywhere, and a Halliburton factory in Wyoming is supposedly the worlds largest supplier of it. So, I questioned that, and Louise wrote back to give me the rundown on bentonite.

Now, as you say, the plot thickens.

Meantime, I don’t know what came over Scheer. Maybe his primary focus was on proving how the how bogus the “war on terror” = Islamafascism is, but he really blew it by accepting Dr. Ivins as the culprit.

Supposedly, the government has now released it’s ‘evidence’ against Ivins, but I haven’t had time to read it yet.

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By cann4ing, August 7, 2008 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Ed Hargess, I totally agree with your assessment of the importance of Greenwald’s article, so much so, I am inserting some extended quotations under the fair comment doctrine:

“During the last week of October, 2001, ABC News, led by Brian Ross, continuously trumpeted the claim as their top news story that government tests conducted on the anthrax—tests conducted at Ft. Detrick—revealed that the anthrax sent to Daschele contained the chemical additive known as bentonite. ABC News, including Peter Jennings, repeatedly claimed that the presence of bentonite in the anthrax was compelling evidence that Iraq was responsible for the attacks, since—as ABC variously claimed—bentonite “is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s biological weapons program” and “only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons.”
ABC News’ claim—which they said came at first from “three well-placed but separate sources,” followed by “four well-placed and separate sources”—was completely false from the beginning. There never was any bentonite detected in the anthrax (a fact ABC News acknowledged for the first time in 2007

“It’s extremely possible—one could say highly likely—that the same people responsible for perpetrating the attacks were the ones who fed the false reports to the public, through ABC News, that Saddam was behind them. What we know for certain—as a result of the letters accompanying the anthrax—is that whoever perpetrated the attacks wanted the public to believe they were sent by foreign Muslims”

Greenwald goes on to show how this perception was used as part of the justification for invading Iraq.  In his follow-ups he poses some intriguing questions:

“Why were White House aides given cipro weeks before the anthrax attacks, and why “on the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, [did] the White House Medical Office dispense[] Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David”? [Washington Post, 10/23/2001]”

“Which ‘high government official’ told Richard Cohen to take cipro prior to the anthrax attacks (it wasn’t a ‘source’ who did so, since Cohen didn’t write about it and apparently never intended to; it was just someone high up in Government passing along a helpful tip to a media friend) [Richard Cohen, Slate, March 18, 2008]”

And the plot thickens.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2008 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

By Ed Harges, August 7 at 9:04 am #


re: By Saggy, August 7 at 5:14:

Agreed. Scheer accepts the government’s main conclusions with an amazing lack of skepticism. Saggy’s right: the place to go for an astute analysis of the government’s very fishy case is Greenwald’s article on Salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anth rax/index.html
——————————————————————————


Ed,

Great link, thanks a lot. People should also check out the link Greenwald gives at the end of his article which is very credible sounding testimony by someone who says he knew Ivins well. 

http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/permalink/055f469834749b297fd3bb9a12555e76.html

I hate to say it, but I even agree with Saggy about the Scheer article. Scheer does not venture to seriously question the FBI story. He does not even bring out how critical the anthrax scare was in making the case for war with Iraq. Don’t you think that might provide a motive to someone other than the usual “lone nut”? Your article sucks, you hear me, Scheer? You call this investigative journalism? Read the Greenwald article, get a clue.

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By yellowbird2525, August 7, 2008 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

yet another set up for the citizens of the USA to take the “fall”; forensic proof that the exact same match BS sounds like the FBI “forensically” proving the bullet that killed JFK came out of the same box of bullets found in Oswalds possession; which of course was FALSE but Schwartzennegger introduced a law that was passed claiming it could be forensically proven; I witness (see http://www.democracynow.org) advised that the NY city police dept is lying under oath & manufacturing evidence to “prove” things that are not: & it has been proven with videos captured by bystanders giving the information directly to them; ACLU is well aware of it; IT IS NOT JUST NYC folks! (truth is relative) means LYING UNDER OATH per TOP GOV officials & Congress etc is ACCEPTABLE & to be used in every aspect of THEIR own agenda; WAKE UP AMERICANS!

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By Ed Harges, August 7, 2008 at 10:04 am Link to this comment

re: By Saggy, August 7 at 5:14:

Agreed. Scheer accepts the government’s main conclusions with an amazing lack of skepticism. Saggy’s right: the place to go for an astute analysis of the government’s very fishy case is Greenwald’s article on Salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

And now he’s written a followup:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/04/anthrax/index.html#

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By AT, August 7, 2008 at 3:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The FBI is a conspiracy theory.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2008 at 2:08 am Link to this comment

Response to Tony Wicher, August 6 at 9:16 pm
Part 1 of 2

•  “..This sounds so utterly preposterous! Ivins was diagnosed as a sociopathic, homicidal killer by several top psychiatrists as far back as the year 2000 who “tried to murder several people”, yet he was allowed to continue in his job for eight more years until he finally committed suicide? What?..”
~~~~~

Yep Tony, utterly preposterous is probably an understatement. Scary part IS…people believe this stuff.

It’s like Ernest was pointing out about troublesum’s comments earlier on, when she said that “It ‘sounds’ like he (Ivins) did it.” “Sounds like??” So Ernest mentioned the issue with, well…I know some people don’t care about this but…THE LAW. As in, EVIDENCE. As in PROOF. Like, proof beyond hearsay psychobabble from, of all people, a dysfunctional social-worker therapist?

That’s not to suggest that I wouldn’t give some credence to an expert forensic psychiatrist, but if that’s who we were really hearing from, he or she would no doubt be forced to explain how an alleged psychotic/psychopath had a super high level security clearance, (for decades) and worked with these exceedingly volatile substances. BUT..that’s not who we’re hearing from here. Nope, we’re getting third and forth hand information from someone who if she’s anything like the majority of this profession these days, is a nutcase herself.

I’m not kidding about this, even though I wish I was. I have noticed over the past few decades, (maybe because I know a bunch of these people personally) that these “therapists’ including the so-called Medical Social Workers, have more personal issues than the New York Times. I’ve long since come to the conclusion that it’s why so many of them go into the field to begin with. So heaven help the person who might seek help for some routine concerns at some point in their lives, because if they weren’t crazy to begin with, a social worker can promise to change all of that. They can have you crazy as a loon in 3 months or less.

Now I’m NOT saying that they’re ALL like that, because I know that isn’t the case. Still, I personally know too many of ‘em that ARE. And, there’s no real oversight on this group of so called professionals. Now if I’m not mistaken, there IS a requirement for psychiatrists, (as the medial doctors that they are) to have a routine of their own with their own psychiatrists. That makes sense to me. I don’t see how anybody could make a life out of listening to and/or otherwise interacting with mentally disabled or emotionally dysfunctional people (at least to the extent of actually being able to help them) without needing the occasional services for themselves. Others may disagree, but I think that here in California, psychiatrists are required to consult there own, at some intervals. (I don’t know what those are).

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By cyrena, August 7, 2008 at 2:07 am Link to this comment

Part 2 of 2 response to By Tony Wicher, August 6 at 9:16 pm

But, I said all of that to say that the same requirement doesn’t seem to apply to these pseudo ‘therapists’ and my own belief is that far too many of them do more harm than good. That said, we’re supposed to believe that this highly intelligent researcher with the highest level security clearance, employed by the government for years, is a homicidal maniac/mass murderer. Come on!!! I like James Patterson’s novels as much as the next person, but the stuff is FICTION!!

Meantime, like I said before, I find it perfectly credible that 6 plus years of harassment from the federal goons could have made him crazy. I’ve seen that too, and I understand it perfectly. In fact, Louise mentioned this same thing on another thread. One of the best ways to drive anybody over the edge, especially someone passionate about their work, is to accuse them of something they haven’t done..something heinous like this. And then to relentlessly hound them. Yeah, it’s enough to make someone, -ANYONE- display some homicidal type behavior.

And yet, we’re supposed to believe that he turned liquid anthrax into powder, and pretended to be an Islamic terrorist and mail the stuff from NJ, because he was jilted by a sorority girl a few decades back? Give me a flippin’ break. And he killed himself with Tylenol #3’s, even though, (as bukko already pointed out) if he’d taken enough to kill himself, he’d have puked his guts out from the codeine before he could die. And all of this happened just conveniently enough before a trial that would have revealed some TRUTH, since that’s the whole point of trials, and that’s why criminals (like the feds and the corporations) like to avoid them. That discovery phase can really be a bitch when one or more of the parties has something to hide.

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By Sepharad, August 6, 2008 at 11:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree strongly with Tony Wicher and cann4ing that we need to first defeat McCain—if for nothing else because of the conflict of interest: presumably he thinks he owes some loyalty to the party that presided over the whole mess. Then we’ll find out if Obama stands for the kind of change his champions hoped he did. We should use every bit of leverage we have and press him, as President, to demand thorough reinvestigations of both 9/11 as well as anthrax attacks, and make sure they are done properly, and include all relevant “classified” material. The Senate Intelligence Committee should be able to get a look at most of it. (A study the Freedom of Information Center did while I worked there as a senior research associate found that of all the recently declassified material only 15% of it actually met the “for National Security” criteria, i.e. 85% of it did not need to be classified in the first place.)  The Warren Commission’s sanitization of JFK’s murder blew it, and we all let it pass out of the sheer weariness that comes from beating against a stone wall for years with no results.

Also: Fadel, though you and I are often in complete disagreement, you’re absolutely correct in objecting to the routine dismissal of domestic terrorists as psychological head-cases. As for international terrorists, you’re right again. It’s stupid to dismiss them as evil people who hate their targets’ way of life, and it drives me crazy every time Bush or anyone else says that. Religious fanatacism may be part of it but there’s usually, as you say, other grievances of a national, political, or—perhaps most especially—economic nature. When extreme religious beliefs and propaganda instead of education comes into play, however, it does muddy the waters. I think that the “evil” lies most heavily in the hearts of people who manipulate others into taking all the risks and spilling the blood. (As for Ms. Siddiqi, I’m not sure what she’s done or what her motives are—surely she was not corrupted by her Harvard and MIT educational experiences. Life in a sorority house, though, may have given her a pretty warped vision of life in the U.S. The university I went to in Chicago for my undergraduate degrees didn’t allow either fraternities or sororities, so I have no first-hand knowledge, only hearsay, re these peculiar institutions.)

I’m not sure where the “they hate our way of life and want to destroy it” came from. There was a professor—Mr. Qut’b (not sure I’ve got the spelling right)—who taught at the University of Colorado in the ‘50s and was disgusted to see men and women dancing together to what he called “jungle music”, and so he returned to the Middle East and wrote about the decadence of the part of American society he saw. His writings did influence Zawahiri and others. But if someone finds a society’s mores offensive, they can simply avoid it and not partake of the perceived decadent behavior. So that in itself is not a reason to attack a society.

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By cann4ing, August 6, 2008 at 10:27 pm Link to this comment

With all due respect samosamo, your approach is backwards.  You have to begin with I.F. Stone’s axiom that governments—all governments—lie.  It is the government’s burden to prove something like this is true. 

If you turn to tonight’s Countdown segment featuring investigative journalist Gerald Posner, you will find, first, the government’s effort to present its case, claiming that they traced the anthrax to a single flask that supposedly originated with Dr. Ivans and then Gerald Posner tearing this apart, noting that even assuming that the government had, indeed, traced it to that one flask (exceedingly debatable) the anthrax in that flask was in liquid form.  This does not begin to explain how Ivans would have been able to transform that liquid anthrax into the sophisticated weapons grade powder found on the envelopes.

The government claimed that Ivans had a device in his possession that could have been used for that purpose.  Posner spoke with six different microbiologists working in this field, and they all told him it would have been virtually impossible for Ivans to have converted the liquid anthrax into the weapons grade powder with that device.

This was not something Ivans could have mixed up at home.  It would have required a team of scientists working in a controlled military lab setting with very sophisticated equipment.

When we tie this to certain other features—the letters themselves all seeking to implicate al Qaeda terrorists, the many unanswered questions about 9/11, most especially the still unexplained collapse of WTC 7 into its own footprint in the span of 8.7 seconds—a building that was “not” struck by a plane, one comes away with an appreciation that it would be unwise to trust the government when it tells us that the investigation of the anthrax letters is now closed.  Indeed, if we simply examine the empirical data with respect to excessive secrecy and massive deception from our government these past eight years, it has become quite unreasonable to accept “anything” this government has to say absent independent verification.

In the 60’s we had a slogan that summed it up—“Question authority!”

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