God, blackspeare, are you thick or what?No one has ever denied that 9/11 was of tremendous advantage- to the Bush maladministration and the neo cons and war profiteers and fascists everywhere. Isn’t that the problem? If you have to carry out a terrorist attack on your own people to do some urban planning something’s really wrong with your system and your society.

By Blackspeare, August 4 at 11:37 am #

Don’t know if you are aware of this part of the ‘inside job’ of 9/11 but the wtc especially the twin towers were costing a lot of money to maintain, occupancy was way down plus it was up for a cleansing of all asbestos to the tune of a billion dollars of more.
So, what better, cheaper way to handle the issue than to not just have them attacked but to insure total destruction, have it demolished, explosively. Scrape it up, clear it out and everybody is ready to build anew. MY favorite reason not to rebuild and especially something as useless as another wto building.
There are several issues about the whyfors of this destruction which includes wtc7 which held the evidence of several corporate scandels such as ENRON and WORLD.COM where the evidence just went away and the legal actions supposedly did to.
Not many people should be able to refute the high probability of the ‘inside job’ that includes silverstein making a 7 to 8 billion dollar insurance recovery from a $100million original investment the the spring of that year.
Coincident. How convenient.

Interesting how this thread evolves from anthrax to 9/11 conspiracies and back again.  As for 9/11——has anybody seen Tribeca lately——it’s something to behold.  While 9/11 was devastating in its own right, the aftermath is amazing.  An area once dominated by warehouses and rundown tenements is now an exclusive domain of the uber-riche.  Like the phoenix, Tribeca has come back even stronger as 9/11 gave Bloomberg the impetus and financial backing to rehab and resurrect this part of the city——so maybe in a macabre way 9/11 was of some benefit.

omniadeo,

I’m on the same wavelength as you 100%. Together let us fight for human solidarity against all forms of racism, whether Zionism or anti-Semitism or Islamophobia.

As to 9-11, when you ask who gained from it, it seems that U.S. imperialism, Islamic militants and militant Zionism all gained. Imperialists got their pretext for a Middle East invasion, Zionists were dancing because it cemented Israel’s alliance with the U.S. as an ally in the so-called “war against terror”, and of course bin Laden and the militants gained by becoming big heroes all over the Muslim world. The extremists in all three camps are psychopathic international gangsters who might well have been allied, each with his own motives. I am especially suspicious that the bin Laden-CIA connection from the eighties was never broken but maintained from the eighties all the way through 9-11 and beyond. It sure looks to me like the Bush administration never had any real intention of catching him.

Tony,

I couldn’t sympathize more. I have been attacked as an anti-Semite simply for pointing out some well established facts about Israel’s history. On the other hand, I see 911 Truth and fairness for Palestine movements (which I strongly support) turned into grist for the anti-Semite’s mill daily.

Mossad and Likud are not “the Jews” any more than the CIA and the far-right Republicans are “the Americans.” Also, while I believe that the modern state of Israel and especially it’s Likud extremists are a real threat to world peace, and while I recognize that many Palestinians have had their land stolen, it bothers me that many critics (especially, but not only, we Americans) forget that we too live on land stolen in bloodshed.

Most people all over the world want peace and to be left alone. Most Jews in the US and the world do not support Mossad and Likud. Some, even in Israel, are unbelievably brave when it comes to standing up for peace against those forces. Most Americans, if they knew what their government was doing, would not support that either. (That is why it is important to the PTB to control the media.) I certainly do not want to be blamed personally for everything done in my name all over the world.

If one investigates certain 911/anthrax leads they do seem to point towards Mossad involvement. But others point to the Pak ISI, the Saudi’s, and of course to the US Corporate/Intelligence/Military power structure (as it was manipulated by the neo-cons). Evil does not originate from one place on the globe.

The world is run by cartels very similar to organized crime families. They war with each other, but also have more in common with each other than they do with the rest of us. Mossad, Turkish Intel, Pakistan, the Saudi royals, the CIA and US MI, KGB and many other players are enemies but cut deals with each other which would shock the people on the street. They also keep each others secrets.

Investigate 911 but stop all racial and ethnic hatred.

By PatrickHenry, August 4 at 2:04 am #

Pat,

On the Zionist attack on the Facebook group, I have mixed feelings. I am a strong advocate of freedom of speech, but not if I consider it to be hate speech. I wasn’t part of that group, and I don’t know if it was really anti-Semitic or not, but I have seen plenty of anti-Semitism out there, and anti-Semites frequently come to TD as well. Once I have identified someone as really anti-Semitic, hiding his anti-Semitism as criticism of Israel and Zionism, I feel such a person should be shunned and not given a forum here. It doesn’t matter how you respond to such people, it just helps them spread their hate, and incidentally justifies everything the Zionists say and do. So I am sympathetic, not with Zionists, but with the Jewish community here.  The trouble is, Zionists also call all legitimate criticism of Zionism and Israel anti-Semitic. It’s a tough needle to thread.

Re niloroth, August 3 at 7:45 am #

Thankfully, every indication is that the 9/11 denial movement is dieing a slow sad death.  it seems that the majority of the population is actually not in fact dumb enough to fall for that crap.
——————————————————————————
You wish, niloroth. How much do they pay you?

Re PatrickHenry, August 4 at 2:04 am #

Seems we need to reinvestigate 9/11 under a new government and new commission.  We can’t let these turds investigate themselves.
——————————————————————————-
I couldn’t agree more.

“Aliens” visit here as well, if you haven’t noticed.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1215331137728

I’m sure they spam our representatives mail boxes and scare the living shit out of them with charges of antisemitism, a sort of blackmail, knowing full well their contacts in the MSM will print it right or wrong.

Seems we need to reinvestigate 9/11 under a new government and new commission.  We can’t let these turds investigate themselves.

Regarding the timely suicide of Dr. Ivins, top govt. anthrax and cippro (the current antecdote to anthrax)expert, who had recently become the govt’s number one suspect in the anthrax attacks in our nation’s capital that left 5 postal workers dead and traumatized congress (where the letters containing the anthrax were addressed), followed by comments by his therapist that he was ‘unbalanced’, ‘scary’ and ‘homicidal’, this case has all the earmarks of the classic mob scenario; the hit man gets the job done, but when the law is about to catch up to him, he is given the choice to kill himself before being killed by the mob.

The fact that all of the anthrax letters were sent to Democrats in Congress, speaks of it being a politically-motivated ‘hit’. Only top Dems were targeted. No Republicans or others outside of Congress were targeted. The postal workers were of course unfortunate ‘collateral damage’.

Be watching in the next weeks how the Republican spin machine will use their media hit men, to make Dr. Ivins into the ‘lone lunatic gun man’ with psychological problems.

Funny how such an emotionally unbalanced person is allowed top-secret clearance, to work on one of the most secretive and dangerous programs of any government, anywhere on the face of the planet.

This was not even close to the work of a ‘mad’ scientist, and if you believe that, I have a twin towers story I want to sell you, about how they were brought down by airliners, with a 3rd building brought down (in perfect demolition fashion) by a few fires unrelated to the attack on the towers.

Hey, here’s a conspiracy theory for you all: nilroth is being paid by the people that did 9-11. I cannot otherwise understand his motivation.

Or did you already think of that one?

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=129022

This story would make the most sense. It gos along with the 5 dancing Israelis arrested in Weehawken NJ on 911 along with nearly 200 Israeli spies deported post 911.
I guess those who believe in the governments absurd tale of 911 are still swirling in a brainwashing black hole.
These attacks were to further the 911 myth and propagate the ’ War on Terror’ or ‘How to Fool the Gullible For Fun and Profit’

Bush Crime Inc. is documented all the way back to ole prescott bush whose financing institutions were confiscated by the US government for banking adolph hitler and the nazis, but if I am not mistaken ole prescott wasn’t charged but continued his samo bs that has pass on down through his son and GRANDSONS.
The most benign way to stop this criminal family is to stop voting from them. Or, if they persist, gather them up, try them and punish them for continual criminal activity against the people of the USA because we, the people have gone so far as to accept their behavior as to basically make is appear in the right.
And when one stops to think about how long h.w. has been in and out of various and assorted agencies in our government with his father’s tutelage during all those years and now with his sons’ involvement we can only hope through w’s massive criminal ineptness that we will not see these evil people any more and don’t even think any of them will be held accountable for their crimes, that just won’t happen.

The trouble with people like niloroth is that they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. Or pehaps they don’t want to know. George Bush’s brother Marvin was on the board of directors of Securecom the security firm in charge of security not only for the world trade centre but also for United Airlines. And that’s not all: their cousin Wirt Walker III was CEO of Securecom until 2002.
This was the company that carried out ‘security inspections’ in the weeks leading up to 9/11 in the Twin Towers and building no 7 and as 9/11 approached they started working twelve hour shifts. Then a few days before 9/11 all the bomb sniffing dogs were withdrawn from the WTC. No explanation was given. Larry Silverstein who already owned the notorious building number 7 bought the entire WTC six weeks before 9/11 for $100 million and insured it for terrorist attack to the value of $3.5 billion. After the attacks he said it was two planes so it was two terrorist attacks. The insurance company disagreed and it went to court. Guess who the judge was who gave Larry his $7 billion dollars? Michael Mukasey, the present Attorney General. And it was Michael Chertoff,now head of Homeland Security (talk about putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank and he also has joint US/Israeli citizenship) who ordered the release of the ‘dancing Israelis’ who went back to Israel and went on TV to say they were in America and I quote ‘To document the destruction of the World Trade Centre’. Well, ring a ding - how did they know, if it’s not a rude question? The fire alarms in building no 7 were set to ‘test’ at 8am on the morning of 9/11 by unknown persons. This meant that if a fire alarm went off when other ‘unknown persons’ set the fires on the floors that held numerous files on Wall Street fraud up to and including Enron the fire department would think it was a test and not respond. Which is pretty much what happened. As for most people not believing 9/11 was an inside job one poll found that 73% of Americans believe it was an inside job. I’ve seen the news reports with the reporters from CNN and Fox (not exactly left wing organizations) talking about the ‘bombs going off’ in the Twin Towers and I’ve seen the reporter in front of the Pentagon saying ‘You would never know a plane had been here’. Are they all part of the conspiracy theory too? Wake up dopey. Your own government attacked you on 9/11 and they sent the anthrax letters too. You’re an increasingly endangered species if you still think otherwise.

nilroth: re Marvin Bush and the company securacom which also provided security s for united arilines and dulles intl’airport:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html?q=911security.html

Oh you mean Phil Zack, the man actually caught on the security system entering the lab where the strain of anthrax used in the letters was kept, WITHOUT proper authorization and after being fired from his job over a racially motivated attack on an Egyptian co-worker.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/anthraxsuspect.html

BTW: if 9/11 happedned as the Bush Administration says it did, it would be the only instance of the Bush Administration telling the truth in over 7 years.  Not very likely.

Ali Mohammad has never been sentenced because he is in the witness protection program.  And look at his qualifications:

Osama’s right hand man
Al Queada trainer
Army intelligence officer
Working conections with CIA
Working connections with FBI
Even a sit down dinner with Patrick Fitzgerald

Best not let anybody hear about this guy.

In our collective amnesia, the name Cliff Baxter has been a forgotten player in the Enron story. A week before he was to testify to Congress, he was found shot in his car one block from his house and the Houston police ruled it a suicide on the spot without ordering an autopsy. However, an autopsy was perform at the insistence of his family. Here’s the story as reported by CBS plus other findings on the case. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/10/eveningnews/main505845.shtml
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/baxterautopsy.html
http://www.apfn.org/enron/baxter.htm

And Italy’s version of the Enron scandal produced the suicides of Alessandro Bassi, an accountant who was ready to talk and much later Fausto Tonna.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3424833.stm
And more recently the impact of the scandal continues to reverberate http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article691063.ece

Is it pure coincidence that the banks that built the house of cards associated with these scandals mushroom again in the aftermath of the sub-prime debacle?

niloroth,

What is your source when you say my characterization of NIST’s explanation of the collapse of Building 7 is wrong?

My source is the NIST slides:

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC Part IIC - WTC 7 Collapse Final.pdf

In those slides, GA’s explanation is never mentioned. How interesting that you defend him and attack me. The entire presentation is an explanation for how damage on one side causes symmetrical collapse. It always seems odd to me that “debunkers” rarely seem to feel the need to site a source.

And do you know who Ali Mohammed is? I doubt it. If you do, please explain why he has never been sentenced.

Finally, to get back to topic, explain why Philip Zack is never mentioned in any current account of anthrax suspects. Or do you know who he is either?

“Why would it not matter?”

And what kind of people think ridicule and mocking of the 9/11 horror is somehow chic, or sophisticated?
Somehow makes them look and sound wiser, somehow.

Maybe people who have no empathy? Or people who have no moral courage? Maybe it’s just people who are afraid to be seen standing apart from the pack ... unless it’s their pack.

Or maybe just people who would rather go down with the ship than challenge the captain who say’s it’s not sinking.

“9/11… the Ship goes Down while The Band Plays on.”

http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com/

“It’s the most amazing thing about the 9/11 attacks. You’ve got hundreds of professionals in the sciences and engineering fields that are on record and supported by irrefutable evidence who say that 9/11 could not have happened the way they say it did. You have hundreds of professional pilots, military pilots and aviation experts who say that those accused of piloting the planes could not possibly have done so. You have former leaders from Japan and Germany as well as intelligence chiefs from Italy and other places who say that 9/11 was an Inside Job and that those who carried it out were members of the CIA, the Israeli Mossad and elements of British intelligence.”

“We have all of this and more, much more and yet we hear nothing about it in the mass media except when the matter is ridiculed or debunked with the most ham-handed efforts. We have lying gatekeepers like Noam Chomsky saying it doesn’t matter if the government, with the assistance of other governments, did 9/11. His arguments make no sense. Why would it not matter? Anyone who makes such an argument is without a doubt in the employ of those who carried out the attacks. Their arguments make no sense. One could say that it doesn’t matter who made the attacks at Columbine. It doesn’t matter who carried out the Oklahoma bombing. It doesn’t matter why we invaded Iraq. It doesn’t matter if we attack Iran. It doesn’t matter if you obey the law or break the law. It doesn’t matter if you lie or tell the truth. It doesn’t matter how many people died for a lie. It doesn’t matter if the Palestinians are exterminated. Apparently nothing matters except to the people that it happens to and they’re gone and that doesn’t matter either.”

GA:

It’s a loosing battle, trust me.  For some reason truthdig draws in insane conspiracy theorists like moths to a flame.  And it never stops, just the same old lies again and again and again.  Kinda like wack-a-mole.  Lies such as jersey girl’s “The person in charge of security of the towers on 9/11?  Marvin Bush, George’s brother.” or omniadeo’s “The current explanation is that the falling debris from one of the towers damaged Building 7 on ONE SIDE
and thus caused a SYMMETRICAL collapse.” 

Both are wrong, but neither of them will ever admit it, and even if shown they are wrong, they will either just spew some other BS, or still continue to claim they are correct.  I seriously think it is a mental disorder. 

Thankfully, every indication is that the 9/11 denial movement is dieing a slow sad death.  it seems that the majority of the population is actually not in fact dumb enough to fall for that crap.

By Ga, August 2 at 7:21 pm #

The people you describe as bigoted arrogant pricks are at the top of conglomerates, government, media, and law enforcement and if found complicant in 9/11 are also guilty of crimminal conspiracy, RICO and mass murder by most standards.

It never ceases to amaze me how very intelligent people who see the bush administration for who they are refuse to believe that 9/11 could possibly have been an inside job.  How could it not?  After three planes go off course, two crashing into the trade towers and one in Pa, the fourth headed for the pentagon and not one jet is scrambled?  The pentagon is left totally unprotected?  That, in itself, is a ridiculous premise. Bush sitting in that classroom after he’s told the country is under attack??!!  Where was the secret service to hustle him off to a safe location?  Bldg 7 falls, no plane hit it, small contained fires, into it’s own footprint at near freefall speed.  AND it’s owner Larry Silverstein was seen on tv saying to “pull it”.  An implosion of that sort is impossible to do in a few hours, let alone amid the mass hysteria and confusion of 9/11.  It only takes common sense not a scientist to figure out something is very wrong with that pictures. 

Then come the structural engineers, scientists, pilots, fire fighters and on the street witnesses and the official fairytale falls down like a house of cards or like the twin towers loaded with explosives.

GA: You really need to do some research on your own. Your naivety in wanting so hard to believe your government couldn’t do such a thing is showing.  Before you even investigate 9/11, google Northwoods. It may help you along your way on the road to truth.

PS: Just a tantalizing tidbit of info:  The person in charge of security of the towers on 9/11?  Marvin Bush, George’s brother.  Go watch 9/11 mysteries on google video. It’s a great place to learn just how those towers were rigged to implode.

Ga,

Your explanation for the collapse of Building 7 was the initial explanation floated by the media, but no official body (NIST, FEMA, the 911 Commission) has usedthat explanation. The reason is simple: There was no huge explosion at the base of Building 7. So they simply ignored the question for a long time and now NIST has came up with another explanation.

The current explanation is that the falling debris from one of the towers damaged Building 7 on ONE SIDE
and thus caused a SYMMETRICAL collapse.

What’s wrong with that picture? I am not an expert. Ask the hundreds of professional Engineers and Architects with advanced degrees (morons?) who say it is highly suspicious if not totally impossible.

I agree with your characterization of the FBI however. That is exactly what makes coverups fairly simple.

The evidence for a coverup of 911 complicity by elements in the US gov and other foreign intel agencies is by no means limited to the buildings.

Go read the history of Ali Mohammed.

By Ga
P.S. That a building can be brought down by explosive demolition means just that, that a building can be brough down by explosive demolition—i.e. if tanks of fuel are in the center basement of a building, and the building catches on fire, chances are it will implode exactly as seen on TV.

Stop the 9-11 morons
——————————————————————————
What’s that supposed to mean? Somebody stored vast amounts of some “fuel” in the center basements of WTC1, 2 and 7 where it would just happen to blow up and demolish the buildings if it caught on fire? And anyone who would find this suspicious and wonder how it happened and who made the decision to put it there is a moron?

By Ga, August 2 at 7:21 pm #

Just clicked on yo hom page. Something serious lacking or should I say you are overloaded with the lord?

I would bet your description of a demolition with tanks of jet fuel in the basement would not work, even if it managed to burn the whole building, at the least the steel core would be left. You should take the time to look at some sights that explain the unexplainable such as never in history has a steel structured building collapsed from fire and some of them have burned for 20 hours and the Empire State Building was struck by bomber flying through the fog; it burned some but it did not collapse. As a matter of fact, do a google on building demolitions and look at the demolitions and read up on the subject.

What is “The FBI”? (As in “You still think we can trust the FBI?”)

The FBI, just as all departments of our government, is made up of many men and women, within a top-down command sructure, where “orders” and “rules” must be followed without question.

Most men and women in government, in the police, in the FBI, etc. are good people who think that they are doing the right thing according to their ideals.

A few though, will be bigoted, arrogant pricks.

The problem is when those at the top are the bigoted, arrogant pricks. This is what has happened under the Bush years. Just like when that bigoted, arrogant prick J. Edgar Hoover ran the FBI.

In addition, we now have those at the top of our media conglomerates as bigoted, arrogant pricks.

Until the public wises up and rises up, there will be bno justice.

P.S. That a building can be brought down by explosive demolition means just that, that a building can be brough down by explosive demolition—i.e. if tanks of fuel are in the center basement of a building, and the building catches on fire, chances are it will implode exactly as seen on TV.

Please stop the 9/11 morons.

By Tony Wicher, August 2 at 4:49 pm #

Now 9/11, don’t get me started but how can something so obvious as an explosive demolition bringing down 3 buildings and witnesses who have witnessed building demolitions, be shrugged off as uncredible? This is the point that a total investigation of w’s administration should begin, well, maybe back into the 1990s where there is evidence from what I have read that not only was the invasion of Iraq a plan but the method of bringing it off which would have to be a new ‘Pearl Harbour’ to shock people into accepting anything this administration did. And especially the 2000 and 2004 elections, total fraud and criminal manipulation. And then I am sure an investigation that includes this anthrax scheme. Don’t get me wrong, I have every reason to believe that our government was in on this as the shock value is just to timed to get what they wanted.
I really need Naomi Klein’s book ‘The Shock Doctrine’

Blackspeare:

9/11; Who benefits?

And who benefits from; Anthrax laced letters; Numerous and timely suicides; Disinformation and squabbling; GWOT; Pre-emptive military aggression; And massive fear?

A wealthy real estate developer. A New York bureaucracy, heavily in debt. A weird fellow trying to be presidential. A bunch of American business’ anxious to get in on war profiteering. A criminal veep hungry to control congress and America. Israel.
Weapons manufacturers. Sick bastards with little minds, governed by big conceit. [PNAC] The greedy and amoral who sit in government. The greedy and amoral who play the Stock Market. Engineers and news people looking for a boost to bring more profit through the doors. The GOP and the RNC.

All of the above needing reinforcement behind their criminal enterprise, just in case any doubt sets in.
Or they are threatened with exposure, and they need to keep the doubters questioning and confused.

All of the above, plus a whole bunch of previously unemployable thugs working in Homeland Security and Blackwater.

And, [drum role please] al-Qaeda, bin-Laden, the Taliban, criminals and thugs everywhere, who now have an open ended invitation to make mayhem. ‘Cause the plan is eternal war, Which equals eternal wealth, for the chosen. [above]

Some want to believe all of the above, who benefited from 9/11 just got lucky, courtesy all of the [below] above.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing ever falls into line that neatly. If it did, we’d all be able to figure out exactly when to play the lottery and know for sure we’d win.

Some think it would be impossible to organize such a vast conspiracy. Not really. Remember Capone? Nobody who knew his true nature would rat him out. Either because he owned them, or they owed him. Or they got sucked in before they knew what they were doing. And they didn’t want to die.

People want to believe the official story for much the same reason those of us who don’t, cant. Nothing could be so vast and work out so well, without a well coordinated plan.

A group trained and experienced in explosives, and covert actions, who could be counted on to keep quite. A few willing multi-millionaires experienced in taking advantage of people to increase their personal wealth. A few highly placed government officials, and a few really dumb dupes. [those Arabs]

FACTS:

Cheney just happened to have planes flying over Manhatten for a “practice exercise” to defend New York from terrorist attack. [adding to the confusion] Bush just happened to be out of town. [adding to the confusion] The response plan to hijacking just happened to have been re-written, requiring only Rumsfeld could authorize response. [adding to the confusion] And Rumsfeld just happened to be in a meeting, and unreachable.

The Twin Towers just happened to have been re-wired for a new security system. [allowing for the free movement of strangers with wire and boxes moving through the buildings without supervision or background check]

Giuliani just happened to have moved the cities fuel storage to building 7. [guaranteeing a massive fire, which never materialized by the way, but it collapsed anyway]

But the real clincher is the janitor, William Rodriguez, who witnessed the explosion in the basement of the North Tower.
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/28031.htm

So either Bush and friends are the luckiest blankety-blanks that ever lived, those dumb Arabs who couldn’t fly a jetliner got really lucky too, or the whole thing was a carefully orchestrated plan requiring a FEW with knowledge and a whole bunch without, placed in the right place at the right time. [They now stay silent because they live in fear]

I wont bore you with all the reasons why what they say happened is structurally impossible. Simple common sense says, 9/11 was not planed remotely by some guy in a cave. There is no way he could have counted on all those coincidences! Unless he was on the phone with Cheney!

By SteveL, August 2 at 1:40 pm #

How does one believe anything that comes from the Bush Administration?
—————————————————————————
Impossible, I agree. That is why I want an investigation into everything that went on during the Bush Administration, STARTING WITH 9-11. Is that unreasonable?

Why bother? As steveL indicates, the the current government’s credibility is so shattered what could be reported other than its expected scenario of how this guy did it, IF he did it. And what would be so hard to understand other than it was placed in envelopes and mailed to different people and some died. Actually the shock is all gone and dragging this back out now that the main suspect is gone, isn’t that the good part? As long as the government sticks to its story about this guy, who can refute it? Or maybe someone on their deathbed 20 years from now will fess up and what would it matter then.
Other than a person suspected is now dead is all that needs to be reported but no, it stands to become the next ‘never ending story’ like monica lewinsky, brittney, paris and all the other garbage played out to keep real current issues from being reported on by our traitorous mainstream media. Just like the senator stevens indictment was on the back pages of the NYP or whatever and the main front headlines were a ‘national inquirish’ story about a 40lb cat. Tell me now what is more shocking. Tell me that rupert murderock is not a real live verifiable threat to our country instead of some old hat news?

How does one believe anything that comes from the Bush Administration?

Chris,

I agree with many of your remarks and see in many other places (including the Obama campaign)signs that there are divisions in the power structure between Neo-cons and the Rockefeller wing of the powers that be. (They are all for “empire” though. they just disagree over whose an how to get there.)

But the evidence for the fact that the anthrax strain came from US stock emerged too early to count here. It was simply undeniable from the start. Perhaps someone bungled that nut"initial coverup. Who knows? But that fact has been known for almost seven years. That is why they have to pin it on a “lone nut.”

I agree with Pearson that the story of the Anthrax attacks needs to be pursued.  We can’t accept that the death of the accused attacker Dr. Ivins closes the book on this pivotal event in our history, nor can we take at face value that his death was a suicide.  Most readers of TruthDig no doubt feel certain that there is much more to this story, but we don’t yet have the smoking gun, a solid link to a government agency or to a well-connected conspiracy.

At the same time, we have enough facts now to be pushing loudly for an acknowledgement by all concerned, including the media, that it was criminal malfeasance for Bush and Co. to have claimed to know that this was an Iraqi operation and to have used it to stampede us into an illegal and disastrous war. And then we need some mea culpas from those who so quickly believed and acted on that line.  The government lab link by itself greatly strengthens the case for impeachment and for pulling out of Iraq, and importantly, it can help immunize people against taking at face value government pronouncements about terror attacks, provocations and incidents with Iran.

There is another strange aspect of this case that might be very important to understand.  It seems like a no-brainer that Bush and Cheney would not want it known that the anthrax powder came from a US government lab, so why did the FBI, which after all is nominally under their control, reveal this?  Even with Dr. Ivins silenced by death, this represents a heavy blow to the legitimacy of the official story line about the past seven years.  Thus it would appear that we are seeing the FBI blowing the whistle on the work of another government agency or inner-circle operation, perhaps the CIA.

Is this FBI revelation a move in the neocon/realist struggle for control of the national agenda, an indication that the battle over neocon control has been joined?  Is it a coincidence that several days ago Bush announced that the chain of command of the entire network of Federal intelligence agencies was being shaken up, or was that Bush’s counter-move?

These developments perhaps have a parallel in some events that happened during World War II.  A network of wealthy businessmen - including Averell Harriman, Allen Dulles and George Sr.’s father Prescott Bush - had been supporting Hitler and organizing the financing of Germany’s rearmament. These same gentlemen later would play key roles in the founding and early years of the CIA.  But after Pearl Harbor, the FBI, under the leadership of J. Edgar Hoover, uncovered and exposed the fact that they were continuing to do business with Hitler’s Germany, and shut their operation down!

Perhaps the FBI is again being used by the “realist” faction in the ruling circles to bring the leadership team of the Empire back in line, in the process giving the public a glimpse behind the curtain.  Perhaps this is happening precisely because it could help rally our help in blocking Bush’s plans to start a war with Iran!

If we draw this conclusion, we should seize the moment and run with it!  We would push the news media and Congress hard to investigate the heck out of this incident, who was behind it and why! And we’d make the link to Bush’s Iran war schemes and to impeachment!

Blackspeare,

Thank you for admitting that your sweeping generalization was “over the top.” Unfortunately, your penchant for unsupported statements keeps going over that same top.

I don’t want to hijack this thread to get into general 911 issues here, but I will debate you or anyone else in any reasonable forum setting on the following:

Resolved: The official explanation for 911 is untenable. (If you care to take me up on this, email me at omniadeo @ hotmail.com. I don’t bite. I am quite rational. If you are sincere and willing to follow evidence and reason, I will change your mind.)

In the meantime, let’s just take a look at your explanation in the anthrax case: “the FBI was always an agency more concerned with style than substance——quickly solving and closing a case was of paramount importance——thus the strange odyssey of the anthrax case.”

How would a penchant for “quickly solving” a case explain allowing the destruction of possibly the most critical evidence in that case? (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2001/11/09/MN153227.DTL)

How would it account for systematically ignoring the most obvious suspect in the case? (Philip Zack—whose name without explanation is left out of all public accounts of the investigation while the name of Steven Hatfill was trumpeted for years, until he sued successfully.)

Most importantly, how would a penchant for “quickly solving” a case result in a blundered investigation that results in a 7 year investigation with no resolution that can ever be investigated by the public.

I promised not to introduce general 911 issues here, but respond to myy email and I will inform you as to how many times the FBI—not to mention other US agencies—actively blocked investigations that were leading to the “wrong” avenues of inquiry in 911 affairs. Note my terminology” these were actions, not the usual “oversights” alleged in the press and the 911 commission report or the “poor investigations” alleged in your post.

You are wrong. It is you who live in the alternate universe of US disinformation. Write me and I will prove it to you.

Re Allan Krueger, August 1 at 3:52 pm #

I wouldn’t believe the government of this country if they said today was Friday. Sure is convenient - this boy’s suicide! PLONK!
—————————————————————————
Allan,

My sentiments exactly.

re Blackspeare, August 2 at 8:24 am #

I like to say that I don’t know whether 9-11 was an “inside job” or not. The way those three buildings collapsed in their own footprints sure look like intentional demolition from where I’m sitting, but what do I know? I’m not a physicist or engineer, and I’m not qualified to decide between contending experts. It may really have been nothing but Islamic militants who gave Bush and Co. a heaven-sent pretext for military invasion of the Middle East. The thing is, I don’t trust the 9-11 Commission or anything else that took place under the unbelievably corrupt Bush regime. Everything would have been covered up. Nothing that might have been incriminating would ever have come to light. What I want to see under an Obama administration is a reopening of the investigation into 9-11 which neither precludes nor assumes active involvement of either the Bush Administration or rogue elements within it.

Louise and Omniadeo…

Perhaps painting all responders on this particular article as part of the “Lunatic Fringe” may have been a little over the top, but when people claim that 9/11 was an inside job to push a secret government agenda——that is patent nonsense and those people are living in an alternate universe.

Without dwelling on 9/11, the real conspiracy is the foreign backing and financing of the hijackers whether it was al-Qaeda or some other entity or combination thereof.  The failure to stop the hijackers was more a factor of faulty intelligence, poor investigations, and lax security.  Remember everything needed to stop the hijackers was already in place before 9/11——it just wasn’t applied——-criminal, maybe.

As for conspiracy theorists——they make great reading and do serve a purpose, but when taken to absurdity and go beyond the proven facts they evolve into the lunatic fringe.

As for the anthrax case, the FBI was always an agency more concerned with style than substance——quickly solving and closing a case was of paramount importance——thus the strange odyssey of the anthrax case.

This story reeks of covert operations by higher ups.
Why were these samples being used, why would our Military decide to ignore such protected agents to be in the lab. If this man was such an obvious pychopath- why was he still employeed, and ignored as a suspect. why was hatfield not cleared when they set their sites -and gathered all this information on Ivnes?
why did Mac claim he had informtion connecting these attacks to Saddam? Being just another Red herring to the reason for Our invasion.
When things can not follow a logical deductive process- alternative explanations must be sought.
Considering the numerous other crimes and Deception used by this Adminsitration- I am Not willing to give them the Benefit of Any doubt they had intended to use this psuedo attack to bolster their claims and aims at seizing iraq and their Oil Fields. I also am ready to point my finger at this admin- esp Cheney- for the Murder of this scientist.the FBI claims there is no further need of Investigation- Since they Work for US, It is OUR Decision as to when WE think this case is closed!
I reject the Story entirely and lay blame for the Deaths and illness from Anthrax at the WH door, along with this mans Murder. Funny the targets were the ‘liberal Media’ (able to scare & convince the Liberal (against the War & Iraqi Invasion) Public, terrorist were after US) and the Congress which could have blocked their goals for Iraq? What was this ‘psychopaths ’ Motives for targeting Them??
Who truly benefited from these ‘attacks’ Who got their way?and why didn’t this scientist die from His supposed exposure to this agent?
ADD GENOCIDE TO THE HIGH CRIMES COMMITTED BY THIS SYNDICATED ORGANIZED CRIME REGIME POSING AS PUBLIC SERVANTS!

This was just a side show to scare up the vote.

I thought Zack was involved, the story just gets better.

You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the links and intel. Well… except for Blackspeare that still thinks the world is flat. Yes, Blackspeare declaring the world was round was a heresy and denounced as a conspiracy theory at one time. The problem always comes when conspiracy theories become conspiracy facts.

Yep, the anthrax was made in the good ‘ol US of A. The good news is that it wasn’t outsourced to China. It was a weapon used by the terrorists (Cheney, Bush, Kissinger, Rockefeller, etc.) to further their agenda.

What’s more interesting about this story is not the story, but its timing. The story is old news and it’s been years, since the CIA sent anthrax to the offices of senators. Why now? Why try to close-up loose ends now? What is the story behind the story?

What always baffles me is why any scientist would ever work on a chemical or biological project for the government. Even the evil scientists get taken out eventually.

On a related note, this is a great movie about the current topic:

In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood and Bioterrorism
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8674401787208020885&hl=en

I really think Glenn Greenwald’s excellent piece in Salon should be linked directly here.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/index.html

Greenwald keeps the focus on what is KNOWN about the untruths used to manipulate the American people in the Anthrax affair.

Note to Truthdig: More jouranlaism like Mr. Greenwald’s.

Do you recall how THIS was one of the reasons the Bush/Cheney cabal were standing by for invading Iraq, spreading the rumor that the stuff came from Iraq. Funny how that contaminated mail was only received by so-called liberal Democrats and certain members of the “liberal media”. Now the suspect has “committed suicide”. Oddly that suspect was a government weapons lab employee that NO ONE had previously suspected. I see many of you commenters have used the expression “conspiracy theory”. I ask you: When exactly does a “conspiracy theory” become a conspiracy revelation??

[Louise]

You can rest easy now.

The FBI reports that the lone anthrax gunman
is dead.

He’s the guy the FBI has been unable to catch
for seven years while they engaged in a program
of evidence destruction and witness intimidation.

No worries now. He’s been “caught.”

Dead. Suicide of course.

Background on this remarkable tale before
the US news media drowns us all in BS.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/392.html

- Brasscheck

P.S. Watch the US news media “rip and read”
press releases straight from FBI headquarters
on this one.
- Brasscheck

==============================

Blackspeare:

I don’t know that I would identify myself as a member of the lunatic fringe, but I definitely am a conspiracy theorist, possibly becoming a conspiracy expert. Thank you very much.

Lunacy? or Reason and Evidence?

Blackspeare, perhaps you would like to tell us what you believe is “lunatic.” I grant that a comment or two crossed the line from being anti-Zionist to out and out anti-Semitic and I abhor that behavior. But I abhor name calling also and “lunatic” is a name that you are calling some of us, apparently.

Have you studied this case? Do you know anything about it? I cannot think of finer example of MSM propaganda than this story. I just read the latest AP headline “Answers in anthrax case may have died with suicide.” Do you really believe that? The answers died? Or the will to investigate now that the story can be put to rest in the MSM and anyone who questions it can be called a lunatic.

Visit; http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ and read the articles on this subject posted there.

Then visit today’s Keith Olbermann Countdown. However, forget about watching BBC, or mainstremmedia on this, because they’ve already got their marching orders.

As Olbermann wondered, Is Ivin’s the man who sent the Anthrax and he acted alone, or is Ivin’s the man who sent the Anthrax and he didn’t act alone?

Americans killing Americans stinks.

Oh, could that be why so many are so abhorred by the deliberate lies created by Americans to take our kids to war? Which Americans could it then be said were responsible for the killing of Americans? And by the way, who gave the order to shut down the press about Ivin’s, and the Anthrax case?

I don’t know, but somebody did. And I’ll bet it came from an office in the White House. However we cant blame Bush. Even his press blonde Dana said he didn’t really know that much about it.

So the Anthrax came from here and was probably sent by someone or someones from here, but nonetheless it became part of the get Saddam chant. Which very well may be why the FBI seemed quite “unable” to solve the crime.

Leading one to wonder what other “crimes” can be connected to the Anthrax [and possibly 9/11 and the FBI] which in turn was/were used as an excuse to attack Iraq for Bush. Requiring Americans to kill Americans to move the GWOT forward and destroy the Constitutional rights of all Americans?

And if you still think any republican, or conservative democrat deserves political office, perhaps you need to look into moving to another country. One where “some” people don’t count. Israel maybe?

Now folks, since McCain was one of the first republican war-mongers to go live on national TV [Larry King] and try to link the Anthrax attack to Iraq, make the most of it. The man isn’t stupid and he isn’t out of touch. He is one of them ... corrupt, corruptible and utterly without regard for human life, or the lives of ordinary Americans.

WOW…this particular article certainly brought out several members of the lunatic fringe!!!

I wouldn’t believe the government of this country if they said today was Friday. Sure is convenient - this boy’s suicide! PLONK!

I thought it was the other muslim hating zionist jew working in a BSL4 lab.

This false flag, blame the muslim for it crap is getting old.

If anything needs investigating in congress, its this.  Moreover, I hope Israel is somehow found complicit.

Suicide? Do they think we are all THAT stupid?  Ohhhh no this guy was the scapecoat.. maybe a whistleblower. The govt “offed” him as sure as I am posting on this subject.

After the false flag of 9/11 how can anyone believe anything this fascist government tells us?

I have no doubt that this poor bastard made the anthrax but that was his horrible little job. What was done with the anthrax after that was something he had little or no control over. Many members of the public have known for some time that the US government planned and carried out these anthrax attacks on its own citizens. Why not? They had already killed around 3,000 of their own citizens on 9/11 and they were drunk with power. It’s been known for some time that the anthrax came from a US military laboratory but Ivins could clearly never be allowed to speak in open court any more than the prisoners in Guatananamo Bay can. The irony is that if Ivins had spoken out publicly he might still be alive because Bush and Cheney would have been forced to resign. The cure for this situation is to impeach Bush and Cheney. Everyone with a brain knows Dick was behind all of it and handled the media misinformation campaign blaming Saddam Hussein for the anthrax attacks (as they had blamed him for 9/11) personally. It’s incredible what some people will do for oil and ideology.

The anthrax attacks and their timing are key to understanding the overall impact of 9/11 and its consequences to US foreign policy and civil liberties. It is not inconceivable that they are key to underatnding 911 itself. So, the FBI closes the books on this because of the apparent suicide of one suspect, the evidence for whose guilt as far as we can see is that he failed to notify authorities in a spill incident over a year after the attacks. So far I have heard no report on any possible motive Mr. Ivins may have had.

In the meantime, the most obvious suspect, Philip Zack, is still ignored by the FBI and the MSM.

http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/01241_philip_zack_steals_anthrax.html

But forget about it. Let’s get back to Obama and “change.”