claiming prolife: Bush is well aware of & actively & consciously working with Corp’s who work together: to actively & agressively target every aspect of citizens lives to do the greatest harm to them physically & then get the max $ out of them with LIES medically: ex: told “need iodized salt” we grew up buying iodized salt by Morton’s or others: which has all natural ingredients STRIPPED from it; artificial “iodine” put in it: & promptly turns to POISON in human’s bodies 15 min after being ingested: see why the “no salt” by doctors? Who by the way have to meet QUOTAS to get $ from Pharma companies (# of prescriptions) & doctors writing most prescriptions for pill of the month get mega prizes; Solution: simple; eat SEA SALT (wouldn’t trust Morton’s); it contains 19 of 21 needed minerals for your body; do to so much being made public about this & other things our Gov has conveniently passed a law stating ingredients no longer have to be listed on things; (to help poison & cause tremendous health problems in folks in USA); and our Leaden Leaders explained that health coverage is in effect: until you get ill; then irregardless of the coverage Insur Companies do NOT have to pay for anything: if it effects their profits; Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo has FORMALDEHYDE folks: as does every other thing they can possibly get it into & on in your home, carpeting, drapes, furniture, probably deoderants, etc; WAKE UP AMERICANS! FDA overturns Calif laws re toxins claiming “is for the greater good”! (FOR THEIR POCKETBOOKS!) CERTAINLY NOT FOR THE PEOPLE of the USA; growth hormones put into infants formulas; other toxins there as well; in soaps, etc; unless using Bonner’s or something folks; all poisons; most deoderants contain at least 1 & up to 8 known & supposedly banned Toxins: fastest way to get into your systems; shampoo & deoderant; foods; it is more PRO PROFIT than pro life; in fact, it is diabolically evil; did you know that hydrogen peroxide 3% kills not only bacterias but VIRUSES? course not, no $ there; were you aware of a natural product that is 10,000 times more effective at treating cancers than chemo? Course not; unless you are subscribed to several natural websites & get updates; media owned by Corps working hand in hand with Gov to FRAUD the people refuse to let out publications or let it publically be known folks; so; is THIS pro LIFE? or PRO DEATH for the multitudes, with a MASK of being PRO LIFE being shown publically? you decide. our Gov is masters of distraction, pointing the finger at someone when THEY themselves are the guiltiest of all. But knowing the POWER of image & PRINT, they make sure it is all carefully controlled to prevent YOU from learning TRUTHS!

Saggy: I never said that I think abortion should be illegal. What I did say is, it should be left up to the woman, her husband/whatever, if the father is still involved, the doctor(s), the medical information and any beliefs if they have them to make the decision as to what to do. I do not believe that it should be up to total strangers, pressuring/encouraging this government to make laws enforcing some people religious views onto other people who they really don’t give a rat’s azz about. If they think that life is so precious, there would be no children who are un-adoptable as these people would have adopted them long ago. There would be no more wars in which to kill them. They would try to make a better world than we see now, rather than forcing more people to create more babies, many of whom will not be able to take care of them properly, thanks to many of the same people seeing to the cuts in the social programs that these new parent(s)/baby may need to survive.

As I said before, if you don’t believe in abortion-don’t have one. Just keep your views to yourself and don’t force governments to coerce others into your value system of beliefs by making laws. It is the same as making everyone worship only 1 form of religion regardless of what a person believes.

ABORTION SHOULD BE LEGAL.

BECAUSE I do not believe in abortion: I voiced it out; my daughter took handfuls of free condoms from the health center & gave them out at school; like she said: you may never use it, & that is fine; if you DO need it, you have it, & it may well save your life; 12 to 15 kids were over at my house when I made spagetti; they brought a girl from Canada who was going to have an abortion its what they did; I explained my point of view to her & why I was against it; she had never even HEARD of keeping a child; I offered her a place to stay for a week & I would NOT pressure her; she stayed, had the child, and others did the same. When her mom came & asked how much I would charge to let her stay with me I said God will provide; He did; as He did for the others who came; & LISTENING & ASKING & CARING without prying & preaching saved untold numbers of lives from being killed, & kids from getting aids, etc; STOP THE INSANITY; QUIT your TALKING & START WALKING! If EVERY SINGLE PERSON did the same, who CLAIMS they are against this & that: EMOTIONS are involved; esp in a rape situation; how DARE anyone PRESUME to declare that person right or wrong? At least the blotched abortion deaths by criminals are STOPPED with making abortions legal. If YOU are NOT capable of doing so, connecting with kids, SUPPORT those who can & are; instead of spending time FIGHTING over who is right or wrong; TIP: if you have teens, you have an in right there; KIDS connect better to other KIDS than to adults; BE WISE & redeem the time; STOP the harm; be honest, be forthright, kids will respect that; THEY will bring you the kids who are pregnant; are you going to PREACH or put into practice what your mouth says? By their ACTS you shall know them: NOT by their speech, or what is printed.

So Saggy, a mother needs to act responsibly toward her fetus/child once conceived. How about in the case of rape. Should that woman-not yet a mother, as the fetus is not yet born, thus making her one-be forced to carry this unasked for potential future baby? Often at the total cost of all medical expenses if not married, or has medical insurance that only covers pregnancy if married over 9 months as many do, loss of time from work if employed, possible job loss in many cases, stigmatized by others who often times feel superior to the “loose” woman who let this happen to her?
What about a fetus that is defective or known to have a devastating disease like Tay Sachs? Those babies die a slow horrible agonizing death. Is it kinder to let them be born only to suffer and then die or to let the fetus be aborted? And do not say they may be able to cure this disease as it stands now, the only cure is death.

I have been through a problem pregnancy, had a preemie, severe medical problems with that baby and finally when he did die, it was a relief that he was no longer suffering and being used as a guinea pig for medical residents with less medical training that I had at the time. The doctors knew he would not survive due to medical negligence involving my baby and the one next to him in NICU. About a year after he passed some older woman called wanting me to sign an anti-abortion petition. I have no idea where she got my phone number from, but I told her politely the experience of my pregnancy and told her that if I ever had another one like the last I would not hesitate to have an abortion, as I could never put another child through the same problems as the last and be able to live with myself. It was a personal decision between me, my husband, my doctors and my religious beliefs. No one has the right to make those decisions for me that is not directly involved with the situation at the time. She didn’t get upset, as some would, but I think that maybe she understood there are reasons for this medical procedures that have nothing to do with birth control or as you, Saggy, probably would think of it as getting rid of a problem. There are many sides to a situation, it is not all black or white.

“It takes a truly twisted mind to characterize the effort to stop abortion as a ‘war on women’.  The demonization of Christianity by the ‘liberal left’ is mind boggling to behold.”
Saggy: I understand that you will not grasp this. Religionists (Domninionists) believe that women are inferior, untrustworthy, sexually inert, childlike, incapable and to be subjugated. A woman, to them, cannot make rational choices and must be regulated by males. That a woman might be sexual it abhorant to them but that only applies to the wifey types. They don’t seem to have a problem with whores when they want them. So, a sexual woman is a renegade that they must make war on. Among the reasons they hate gay people is related to this. They wrongly insist that gays “want to be women” and the sex they have it somehow “womanly”. Facts do not matter. They CANNOT see anything but the sexual component in the lives of women and gays. This is a fixation for them. That Christianity is somehow under attack when people assert their rights is one of their major new themes. This can only mean that meddling and abusing others that do not share their views is an essential part of their religion so that taking that away is tantamount to disallowing one of their sacraments. The clergy MUST control them and isolate them from sense and reason else they will be exposed for the charlatans they are. Their followers keep them in business by remaining ignorant of truth and fact. Christ’s teaching are not considered at all in ANY of this. It’s a cult of the clergy.

To take a person at their word, Saggy is pro-life and pro-death. How can this be? A person that believes in the sanctity of a human life but believes in the death penalty?  Isn’t this an inconsistent holding? One should be pro-life all the way or as Saggy termed it pro-death, pro-irresponsibility all the way.
To be of two minds, must be a difficult thing, to sway like the proverbial tree in the wind, regarding abortion and the death penalty, must be difficult to swallow and to keep in mind which position you hold in which conversation you are having.
I must confess, I do not know where I stand on abortion, but I am truly against the death penalty, it has not been proven as a deterrent to criminal behaviour, it is not administered correctly across the board and it is proven that an inordinate amount of poor and minority people are on death row because of a lack of funding for the necessary attorneys.
Should a person, which holds both ends of the candle, speak about consistency of thought, when they cannot keep their minds straight regarding death?  Also included in this debate should be the cause of euthanasia. The Federal Government cannot keep their activist noses out of the rights of the states to legislate their own behaviour. Oregon, had one of the most progressive and sane policies regarding euthanasia in the nation, the only sane policy regarding euthanasia in the nation and the shrubs cronies went to court and had the state mandated law, voted on by the people of Oregon, passed by the people, overturned because the drugs used are federally administered. This to me is a bunch of crap, no one has the right to tell me how to die with dignity.
The Far Right Christian Fundamentalist Wing of the Republican Party has so many inconsistent policies, that their heads must spin every time they have to speak regarding their stances on any number of issues regarding life and death.
Thank the Mother, that there is less than 1 year left of this abomination of an administration. Hopefully, the American electorate, will come to their senses and elect someone who has consistent and normal policies, foreign and domestic, that is progressive and worth listening to.

Working in the medical profession for over thirty years, I could not refuse to do my job because I didn’t like or agree with a patients: religious beliefs, race, disease, where they resided or for many more other reasons not listed. When I was sent out to a job site, be it a personal home, hospital, nursing home or doctors office, I was expected to do my job in a professional manner, emotions, beliefs or feeling were to be put aside. Otherwise you had no job.

If people today do not want to preform their current jobs, then they need to change careers into a field more acceptable to them and not by making exceptions for some over the medical treatment a person may need. Forcing your views unto the people whom you rely on for your income never did mix with the working world. In time, the big corps will find out you are losing them money and you will be gone.

If you do not believe in abortion or birth control, do not use them. But to force your views unto others is an invasion unto their rights to live their lives as they see fit. What if others with views of limiting your progeny to 2 or less were enforced unto you? Would you allow that to become the law of the land? It works both ways.

Trying to ban birth control will result in more unwanted pregnancies and children. Abortion has been around for thousands of years.

Your version of God in the old testament, which this type of person want to go back to, embrace a delusional view of the world. What kind of sick people would embrace a God and want to force him unto others,a God who forces a raped woman to marry her rapist, Duet. 22:28-29? How about Hosea 9:11-12 abort children from their mothers wombs? Refers to women and childbirth equals filthy women, Levi. 12:1-5. It’s right up there with the talking donkeys and Balaam, Numbers 22:27-30, or allowing Elijah to curse the earth with no rain for 3-4 years, James 5:17 or the claims that all animals will fear humans forever, Gen. 9:2? Or any strangers approaching sanctuary must be put to death, Numbers 17:7, so if you need help, do not seek it from these radical religious people, as there is a good chance they will kill you as you are a stranger.

Let’s hope this country never goes that far back to the dark ages of superstition and ignorance. It would make the radical Islamist seem rational.

If birth control medications are banned, then people will have to go back to the old ways of contraceptives like: QUEEN ANN’S LACE, to start with.

The right wing religious nut jobs are pro BIRTH, not pro LIFE——once a person is born they could care less about them! I am not in favor of abortion. I would like the right wing (Krystal and the others), war mongers to explain away all of the pregnant women who have been killed in Iraq - couldn’t you call this war-for-profit MILITARY ABORTION? The religious right constitute the largest group of hypocritical phonies EVER!

By C Quil, July 29 at 8:16 am

•  “Pro-life makes me laugh, one of those words which sounds fine until you find the pointy-eyed control freaks behind it. Pro-life seems to kick in only if it concerns a white fetus with “christian” parentage.”

C Quil,

Makes me laugh too. (except of course that it isn’t really funny) You described this version of ‘pro-life’ so well. It has this very, very, very selective application. Definitely white and of ‘christian’ parentage. Hitler felt the same way you know.

Anybody else…well, that’s who the guns and bombs and knives are for.

Guns + war + (Christian) god = Pro-life

Now if that was an exercise on an IQ test, some things wouldn’t fit in the formula or the result. But how many people would assume that as the CORRECT answer, including the ones scoring the test? 

That should tell us something.

On this:

•  “As for contraception availability, no one should ever be refused treatment. If a member of the medical staff has religious objections, they should not have to participate but perhaps they should be found work in some other area. They are not allowed to refuse treatment in any other discipline. …There should always be someone available to provide the service. Any other way is medical malpractice.”
That actually IS the law. There is always supposed to be someone available for service, except that in most of these cases/states, they’ve diminished it require only a ‘referral’. In other words, if someone goes to their local pharmacy to fill a prescription for contraceptives, and only a fundie is on duty, they feel that they are only required to refer the person to a different pharmacy, where there is a real professional on-duty, willing to honor their Hippocratic Oath. Same thing applies in the hospitals. I think it’s absurd. And, it happens a lot. When I lived in Texas, there were entire staffs full of these people (nurses and others), who would simply refuse to scrub for any such procedure.

I don’t believe that any medical professional should put their personal convictions above their Hippocratic Oath, and still be allowed to practice medicine. No other profession would put up with that.

This is nothing more than an attack on another building block of this country: the separation of church and state. The “right-wing” christians have slowly been imposing their morality on the rest of us via the republican party. Every time we let the republicans (who profess to be christians) get away with screwing this country, we give tacit approval for their goals. Where is the sense of outrage something like this would once have stirred? The government has NO BUSINESS telling a woman if she can have an abortion or not. If we keep going down this path, we may be seeing the birth of the American Taliban.

Troublsum echos a reverse Jesse Helms policy. Rememeber that he once suggested that we place all the gays and all the blacks in their own state and put a fence around them.
Perhaps we should have let the south succeed afterall. But then again, we would be stuck with a violent and ignorant theocracy right next store (like we have NOW).

The best way to shut these people up is to give them 3 or 4 states in the south for their own country.  They do not want to live in the 21st century and since most of them already live in southern states which are a drain on the national treasury, I think it’s would be a pretty good deal.

My dear Maria.A problem envisioned by the founders with the separation of Church and State.Obama vowing to continue the Faith Based Ininiative programs promises more of the same.Just a different perspective.Religion should have a voice in the arena never from government.If when you have power instead of continuing the intrusion of religion in government you end it maybe we could resestablish the separation of Church and State.Beleive me the new Christies will be just as fanatical as the old Christies in a different direction.Religion in church politics in the White House.

What IS it with these people, constantly trying to exert control over everybody else when they are barely able to control themselves?

The latest huge hypocrite is Larry Craig, he of the “wide stance” and penchant for soliciting bathroom sex, who is backing the “protection of marriage and the family” bill, or whatever the official name of it was.

Pro-life makes me laugh, one of those words which sounds fine until you find the pointy-eyed control freaks behind it. Pro-life seems to kick in only if it concerns a white fetus with “christian” parentage.

Anybody of any other color, religion or nationality is fair game for guns, knives or bombs. How can the same pro-lifers be also so pro-war and mass slaughter of anyone who dares question the great American way?

Word to the pro-lifers out there - mind your own business. If you don’t want an abortion, don’t have one. If you don’t want to use birth control, don’t. Squeeze out as many little fundamentalists as you wish, but leave the the rest of the world alone, hear?

As for contraception availability, no one should ever be refused treatment. If a member of the medical staff has religious objections, they should not have to participate but perhaps they should be found work in some other area. They are not allowed to refuse treatment in any other discipline.

There should always be someone available to provide the service. Any other way is medical malpractice.

It has been plainly obvious to even the casual observer that over the last 28 years (the Golden Era of the Neocon) that the ultimate goal of the conservative movement is the re-subservience of women in America. They believe that if women are once again removed from public life (short of a trip to the grocery store)that all the ills of our nation will be magically cured.
As the U.S. takes it’s inevitable plung into histories crevace of failed empires, our society is bound to take on the the most unfortunate attributes of a failing super power. When we cannot find anymore external enemies to blame for our misfortune, we will look within our own borders. This trend has already begun with the phony war on illegal immigrants. Women are now finding themselves in the crosshairs, soon to be followed by Blacks and all non-christians.
The war on reproductive rights is only another battle being waged by the neocons in their master plan to form America into a corporate run theocracy. Another eight years of republican rule, or gutless democratic leadership should put us well on way to these ends.

First we must Redefine ‘Pro Life’ to encompass everything After Birth. Far too many who claim to be ‘pro Life’ don’t give a shit what happens after the womb- this is not only a mortal sin, but criminal.These heretics are only waiting on ONE birth. they are so arrogant and lack faith in an ‘almighty’ they beleive that such an entity is incapable of assuring a ‘second coming’ without their intervention. Oh ye of Little Faith…Or is it their ‘God’ is unable to do anything without the asistance from mere mortals. A Creator is capable of Desinging ‘heaven and Earth’ but can’t bring one life into being?
Also when you disregard the conditions of a new life and it’s entire existence thereafter- are you not disregarding the divinity of the creation and what it brings forth. So refusing to focus on a lifes access to food, shelter, education, income, health…not spitting on the potential of that ‘creation’ and what it may be able to contribute to the rest of mankind. If A Savior was born today, would he/she be living in a War torn area, starve to death, die from inadequate shelter, suffer detriments resulting from this substandard existence and resources?
I wounder What entity would require humans to assure a birth, would not care about the life/existence once born? Would be so dispassionate about the Human condition.
But who on Earth would benefit from irresposniblity of the only sepcies capable of Stewardship? Those who view humans as commodities, would reap the benefits of a high supply, thus lower cost of such a commodity. If the commodity of human labor is flooded, the cost of obtaining this commodity loses it’s value. Consider the cost effective analysis of the Multinational Corporations when the supply side of labor outweigh the demand. Cut cost on wages, offer fewer benefits and have the ability replace workers as needed or desired. When job applicants far outnumber the job opportunities, such demands of the Corp to provide adequate reimbursement is markedly decreased.
Until the so called ‘Right to Lifers’ realize they are first being Blashphemous and heretical towards their Religious doctrines and Deities and realize that the only Mortals who benefit from this marketing scam are those who wish to control Labor costs, These crimes against humanity will continue.
Teh only ones benefiting from theCurrent psuedo Pro Life movements is that which enjoys human suffering and those who gain financially.

Amerika’s “religious right” seem worlds of bunched up about ‘morals’ and ‘conscience’ when it comes to a woman’s right of choice. Yeah, whatever. The “religious right” are appallingly absent on issues of actual morality. You know like wars of naked aggression, illegal detention, torture, and cutesy stuff like that. Expedience is therefore the “god” the religious right would worship and fall on their knees before. Not all “religious”, nope. Mostly just your run-of-the-mill Evangeli-culls, most Cathoholics, and those truly creepy ‘Jonestown United For Israel’ types. Aren’t they drinking the “kool-aid” already? Mikey ‘the fish killer’ Leavitt will capitulate to the ding-bats and that’s a given.