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 Dramatic Return for the Living and the DeadPosted on Jul 18, 2008
By Robert Fisk Originally printed in The Independent. Yesterday [July 16] was the last day of the 2006 Lebanon war, the final chapter of Israel’s folly and Hizbollah’s hubris, a grisly day of corpse-swapping and refrigerated body parts and coffin after bleak wooden coffin on trucks crossing the Israeli border, which left old Ali Ahmed al-Sfeir and his wife, Wahde, stooped and broken with grief. Ali had a grizzled grey beard and stood propped on a stick while Wahde held a grey-tinged photograph of a young man—her son Ahmed, born in 1970. “He was a martyr, but I do not know which lorry he will be on,” she said. In the slightly torn picture, he looked whey-faced, unsmiling, already dead. That could not be said for Samir Kuntar—28 years in an Israeli jail for the 1979 murder of an Israeli, his young daughter and a policeman. He arrived from Israel very much alive, clean shaven but sporting a neat moustache, overawed by the hundreds of Hizbollah supporters, a man used to solitary confinement who suddenly found himself idolised by a people he had not seen in almost three decades. His eyes moved around him, the eyes of a prisoner watching for trouble. He was Israel’s longest-held Lebanese prisoner; Hizbollah’s leader, Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, had promised his release. And he had kept his word. The coffins—newly hammered together in Tyre before the 200 Hizbollah, Amal militia and Palestinian bodies arrived from Israel—were soon bathed in the Lebanese flag and golden Hizbollah banners, drawn by a flower-encrusted truck towards Beirut. Wahde climbed on to a plastic chair, desperate to see the box containing her son’s skeleton. Old Ali pleaded to stand with her but she told him he was too old, so he stood, head bowed, amid the television reporters and young Hizbollah fighters, with tears in his eyes. Who knows if Ahmed was in one of the boxes? But it was also a day of humiliation. Humiliation most of all for the Israelis. After launching their 2006 war to retrieve two of their captured soldiers, they killed more than a thousand Lebanese civilians, devastated Lebanon, lost 160 of their own—most of them soldiers—and ended up yesterday handing over 200 Arab corpses and five prisoners in return for the remains of the two missing soldiers and a box of body parts. For the Americans who have supported the democratically elected Lebanese government of Fouad Siniora, it was a day of hopelessness. For Mr Siniora himself, along with the President and all the surviving ex-prime ministers and presidents of Lebanon, and the leader of the Druze community and the country’s MPs and Muslim religious leaders, and bishops and higher civil servants, and the heads of all the security services—along, of course, with the UN’s representative—were at Beirut airport to grovel before the five prisoners whom Hizbollah had freed from Israel. They were flown north by the Lebanese army’s own helicopters. As for Hizbollah, they staged a mighty pageant of leaping cavalry horses and massed bands and dabkeh dances as Lebanon’s Shia imams and their invited Sunni sheikhs and Druze notables sweated in their heavy robes throughout the day’s 37C temperatures on the border. But the Israelis, it seemed, were in no hurry. Well aware that Hizbollah had constructed a theatrical homecoming for both the living and the dead, they delayed the first 12 coffins for five hours and then the five living prisoners for another four hours. By this time, the camouflage-clad horse riders—including a long-haired Che Guevara lookalike—and their green-clothed mounts had long finished cantering and the dabkeh dancers had run out of breath and the bagpiper—yes, a real, moaning bagpiper—had run out of puff and even the white-scarved honour guard was wilting in the heat. Their discomfort was exquisite. And there was a certain sleight of hand in all this. Mr Nasrallah had promised to retrieve the bodies of Palestinian “martyrs”, and they included the remains of 19-year-old Dalal Moghraby, which were supposedly stacked on the first lorry to cross the border yesterday. She was the girl who led 11 Palestinian and Lebanese gunmen in an attack on the Israeli coast road north of Tel Aviv. Cornered by the Lebanese army, she decided to fight it out. Thirty-six people died and a surviving videotape shows an Israeli agent, a certain Ehud Barak—yes, the man who is now Israel’s Defence Minister—firing shots into her body and dragging her across a road. Mr Barak was one of the Israeli cabinet members who voted for the return of her corpse yesterday. But the Palestinians, it turned out, did not want their dead returned to Lebanon. Dalal Moghraby’s mother Amina Ismail, for example, wished her remains to lie where she was buried in Israel—the land which she and millions of other refugees still regard as part of Palestine. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command said it wanted its dead “martyrs” to remain on “Palestinian land” as they would have wished, and asked Hizbollah to exclude them from the returning corpses. No such luck. For Hizbollah had other ideas and—with the agreement of the Israelis, of course—brought them back to the land of their exile. History lay piled in layers yesterday: a long-ago murder in Israel and the release of the killer who now, courtesy of the Israeli prison system, speaks fluent Hebrew and English; the body of a Palestinian girl whose killings on the Tel Aviv coast road provoked Israel’s first invasion of Lebanon in 1978 (total dead about 2,000) as surely as Hizbollah’s capture of two soldiers prompted the bloodbath of Israel’s revenge (total dead about 1,200). But what would this matter to Mr Nasrallah in his hour of final triumph? Once more, despite Hizbollah’s capture of west Beirut earlier this year and the gun battles that broke out across Lebanon (total dead 65), he has recaptured his old popularity as the only man with the only army to stand up to Israel’s legions. And there will most assuredly be another war. By the roadside south of Tyre yesterday, there was a huge poster of an Israeli warship struck by a Hizbollah missile in 2006, burning fiercely. “And more to come,” the caption announced, archly. I found Hizbollah’s exhausted cavalry clopping north, their wilting riders—including Che—lolling in their saddles, the tired horses veering across the road. So this was what the war was all about. Elsewhere: . CommentsAre you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. Add Your Comment
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Joe the Plumber to Report on Gaza—Seriously
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By Sepharad, July 29, 2008 at 10:35 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
To thebeerdoctor, re your preference as to how your and my country (the U.S.)spends its money abroad: fair enough. I don’t like to see my tax dollars abroad going to many countries and many causes (such as the UN and idiotic wars such as Vietnam and Iraq, to name just a couple of the dumbest things we’ve done). You don’t like to support Israel financially, I do. We’re both entitled to our opinions. I’m a Jew and a Zionist, and see Israel as one of the world’s bright spots. Per capita you won’t find a more creative, progressive country contributing disproportionate amounts of scientific innovation, knowledge and beauty to the world. It’s a great investment.
The Palestinians have suffered for several generations now since the UN partition and war (the Arabs attacked first if you recall). Some Israelis who have learned from bitter experience to hate the violence and hate emanating from the Palestinians have increased that suffering. But many more Israelis have tried to assuage it in any number of ways, particularly by attempting to help develop joint economic projects because they (and I) believe that if the Palestinians could have decent lives they would get on with them instead of brainwashing their kids into a suicide bombing career path.
Israel took in 900,000 Jews driven out of their homes by Arab countries during and after the ‘48 war, and those refugees made lives for themselves in a small, struggling country with not much infrastructure and not a drop of oil. The 800,000 Palestinians Arabs displaced during that war should have been able to similarly settle in the vast oil-rich Arab world, which dwarfs Israel in terms of land, population and wealth. Why do you think that didn’t happen? Why do you think that those refugees were herded into camps and kept in miserable conditions? Why weren’t they moved into the homes from which the Jews in Arab countries had been driven in what the Arab League’s Iraqi representative called a “population exchange”? Do you think those Palestinian refugees, unlike the Jewish refugees, were too stupid or too lazy to start their lives over again? That’s errant BS. Palestinian Arabs were NOT ALLOWED to settle into bordering Arab lands, not allowed to take up anything like a normal life, because certain Arab elite governments—the Saudis especially—needed them as a bleeding sore, a public relations cudgel, because they could not afford to let Israel exist. Israeli Arabs lived much better than Arabs in other Arab countries, very visibly, and the House of Saud knew the contrast would create dissatisfaction among their own people who were already grumbling about their poverty considering their rulers’ ridiculous wealth. The obvious distraction for the restless oppressed: the everlasting push to exterminate the Zionist entity, implying that if only Israel vanishes all will be well. I wonder how otherwise self-identified liberals can be so blind to this opiate-of-the-masses factor? It may be too late for reason to prevail, now that the religious fascists Hezbollah and Hamas et al are in the game, now that the minority of ultra-religious Jews can point to facts that bolster what they’ve always claimed, that you can’t trust murdering lying Arabs ever.
Oh—America and the Euros gave, still give, tons of money to the Palestinians. Fatah kept most of it for their leaders, which is why Hamas came to power. When Sharon unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, American Jews sent hundreds of millions of dollars to rebuild the many greenhouse and agricultural operations in Gaza destroyed by looters in the transfer process. All of that was once again destroyed by Gazan looters and militants of every stripe. God forbid the Palestinians get something good in life: they might reject the death cycle.
Palestinians have an Arab problem, not an Israeli one. The unnecessary carnage, the wasted potential, sickens me.
Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, July 29, 2008 at 12:16 am #
re: Sepharad, It is always refreshing to read the posting of an out and out Zionist, because you know exactly what kind of mentality you are dealing with. Your statement: “most Israelis see Israel as their homeland because historically it was, is and will always be.” Just about says it all.
Report thisWhether this is true or not does not matter. What does matter, as an American citizen I vehemently object to my country’s government giving your blessed religious entity billions of dollars to support your military operations. If Israel truly is a sovereign nation, good or bad, it should be able to get on with its own affairs WITHOUT U.S. assistance. But of course, you do not want the money spigot turned off, that is why there is AIPAC greasing the skids.
By Sepharad, July 28, 2008 at 11:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
A few quick responses (“quick” because am nursing a very sick mare more or less round the clock; she’s worth it, to me anyway, and there’s hope. Sleep deprivation undermines clarity of mind somewhat, but as a former journalist learned to think under nearly any condition.
Cyrena, re Warren Christopher: worked with him on some state-level issues in the ‘70s Jerry Brown administration. As a lawyer in a big LA law firm, he wielded considerable influence and nicknamed “The Cardinal” by fellow lawyers. Was shrewd, fair, very quiet and was on liberal side but worked effectively with the dinosaurs without giving up anything. I’m not a big Jimmy Carter fan—distrust publicly uber-pious people—but a lot of his policies were crafted by Christopher
Re the guy who said Israel shouldn’t say God promised them the land when 90% of them are atheists—if you knew anything about it you’d know that most Israelis see Israel as their homeland because historically it was, is and will always be. The Romans didn’t kill or drive out ALL the Jews, and their renaming the place Palestine doesn’t mean a thing: there’s been a continual, uninterrupted presence of Jews in he promised land from the beginnings till the present day. Please, just get off the Net long enough to read some history—Ottoman Archives might convince you. Yes, there ARE 15% of Israelis who believe God said that, they are a large part of the problems with Israel and in some ways on an intellectual par with the death-worshipping Islamist fascistis in Hamas and Hezbollah. Luckily in Israel, however, the fundamentalist haters don’t cow the rest of the population into rabid behavior and brainwashing children. And IDF certainly never forces or drugs children and adolescents, straps them up with explosives and sends them off to become murderers themselves. Many of these children are stopped at checkpoints sometimes weeping with fear, and relieved of their bombs, which are often set to be detonated remotely when the child reaches the target in case they change their minds.
Re comparing the Hamas-affiliated Palestinian who tried to bulldoze and kill civilians to the driver of the ARMORED bulldozer who ran over Rachel Corrie: if you look at the pictures, you can tell there’s no way the Israeli driver could see, through the slit in front, Rachel kneeling close up but below his sight level. She was trying to keep the bulldozer from destroying a Palestinian house, either not knowing or not caring that the house was being bulldozed because a weapons-smuggling tunnel opened into its livingroom.
Re child-killing—the Lebanese terrorist deliberately murdered that little girl, not accidentally, not as collateral damage, not even as a human shield, which is how Hezbollah and Hamas operate—creating maximum possibility to get their own civilians killed by fighting amongst them and drawing Israeli fire, and by targeting Israeli civilian rather than military targets. (Also the H&H;guys coerce kids into blowing themselves up, noted earlier.)
Children and women have been in history and are today killed in every war, everywhere, in all cultures and in everyone’s conquest cycle. There are NO innocent societies, never have been, never will be, but the Islamists are showing themselves to be more depraved than most in their disregard for human rights and life. Unless you are NOT part of a society and live on some remote island self-sufficiently, unlike the cosseted and privileged handwringers who suck up everything their society has to offer and then condemn everything it does, you ARE a participant in the carnage. Israel at least requires all of its citizens to serve in the IDF, which remains one of the most humane armies in this world despite the isolated and dubiously-documented atrocities you toss around as fact here.
Golda got it right: “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us.”
Howard, carry on.
Report thisBy cyrena, July 27, 2008 at 1:19 am #
Beerdoc..
On this to Louise:
..Also, on another thread, I tried to find a link for cyrena but failed. Anyway, for one wondering about Barack Obama and Madeline Albright, an article by Mark Steel of the Independent reveals that former Secretary Albright and former Secretary Warren Christopher are now part of Obamas foreign policy team. Since the links failed, I suggest just putting into Google: mark steel on barack obama and it will be found. Peace
I DID get at least one of the related pieces. Outraged posted it in answer to my question on whatever thread that was. So, it confirmed that Madeline Albright and Warren Christopher have become a part of the Obama advisory team.
Now I admittedly dont know all that much about Warren Christopher. No particular reason other than that I guess I wasnt paying much attention back then. Another reason might be that while its pretty clear that I am politically involved, Im just not all that partisan. Ive pretty much always made determinations of things based on individual rather than group tendencies, even though Im firmly committed to the dynamics of social groupings. So, a bit of a paradox maybe, but thats what it boils down to.
That said, I was initially dismayed to learn that Albright had gone over to the Obama team, and Im still not the least bit pleased about it, because I DO know far more about her, and for the most part, I dont like the job that she did as Secretary of State. I believe that her judgment was poor, either because it was shallow and therefore unaware of the consequences of those decisions, or worse that she WAS aware, and made them anyway. It also rubs me slightly wrong that she has come over from the Clinton team. So, Im not particularly happy about that at all.
But guess what? Ill get over it. Madeline Albright is not his only advisor in state or foreign affairs, and my guess, (which is actually more of an admission) is that she probably DOES have something to offer. She was in the position of Secretary of State, and that gives her some experience. Brzezinski has been on-board with him from the beginning, and people have all sorts of bad things to say about him, depending on where they are situated on the partisan grid. I personally like the guy, and very much appreciate his keen mind. But again, I dont base my own assessments on vague associations or ideologies that have little or nothing to do with the issues that actually DO concern me as a US and global citizen. I expect all public officials to uphold the rule of law, and to conduct the States business in accordance with those laws. That means that at the end of the day, I dont need to like them or dislike them, as long as they do what theyre supposed to do, and AVOID violating the laws of the land, and the agreements reached by civilized people across the world.
More importantly, I dont expect every politician or political operative to always act on my individual behalf, and I know far better than many, that there is ALWAYS more to any given situation than meets the public eye. I learned this abundantly well in my former career, so I am slow to call a judgment until I know ALL of the components of whatever that situation might be. In many cases, we never find out. On the other hand, I have no problems calling a judgment when the facts become abundantly clear.
Information, (such as the addition of these people to Obamas team) is good to know. Its one of probably thousands of things that are good to know. Time will tell what value of relevance it has in the overall picture.
Such is life.
Sometimes I engage in the ‘what if’s’ of history. I wonder ‘what if’ the American public has scrutinized Dick Cheney and GW Bush as well as they have this ‘upstart’ Obama. Would they still have voted for them?
I don’t know.
Report thisBy M Henri Day, July 26, 2008 at 2:53 am #
«How do you welcome a child murderer as a hero?» asks, rhetorically, signature «Howard» ? Unless the bombs dropped by the United States in Vietnam some four decades ago were significantly «smarter» than any in the arsenal today, and scrupulously avoided exploding near Vietnamese children, it is obvious that the major qualification for the «child murderer» who is a candidate for the office of US president is his alleged status as a «war hero» (it certainly cannot be his piloting skills). Two thousand years on, we are still much better at detecting the mote in our neighbour’s eye than the beam in our own….
Henri
Report thisBy mrmb, July 23, 2008 at 1:16 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Israel/IsraelWatch.html
Report thisBy mrmb, July 22, 2008 at 8:44 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2501/is_3_25 /ai_114519332
Report thisBy walldizo, July 22, 2008 at 1:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Historical errors normaly start when people fail to address their concerns objectivly.Equating the victim with his oppressor is a starking example of how people propagate disasters under the pretext of rejecting violence.This is how the Palestinian long journy with destitution and deprivation began.Once we deprive the people of the land from rebelling against foreign occupation, we don’t only condemn them to utter humiliation and indignation, but we also coerse history to change its normal course.This is exactly whats happening in Palestine.Zionist media and pundits would call upon the waring parties to suspend hostilities as if the Palestinians armed with a rock, rifle and a premitive rocket are truly equal with the Israeli invicible army.Naive people and bad ones would realy feel disgusted with this unnecssary regional war between Palastine and Israel.And until those naive ones open their eyes to the true picture of the daily killing, destructions,humiliations and finally a wall that carved 20% of whats left of the Palestinian land,people will continue to equate the victim with his murderer.
Report thisBy Howard, July 21, 2008 at 5:58 am #
You can take whatever side you like in the Israeli-Palestinian debate. You can argue who is entitled to land and statehood and borders. But you cannot defend the frenzied lovefest that took place for Samir Kuntar in Lebanon, as if he were some long-lost statesmen, instead of a common murderer who did the worst thing you can do: take the life of a child. How do people celebrate such a killer? Is it because the little girl was Israeli - and Israel is the enemy? Since when does a 4-year-old know of politics or war? An Israeli soldier who deliberately smashed a child’s head on a rock would be tried as a criminal, not cheered like a hero.
Report thisThe total disregard for life of anyone who does not believe what Hizbullah believes stands in stark contrast to the value of life - and even of its demise - that Israel demonstrated in bringing those two bodies back.
By David Kanaschwiiz, July 21, 2008 at 4:43 am #
How depressing. I felt a need to express my disgust at the welcome that Hezbollah gave these ... criminals (I cannot think of a noun sufficient for my contempt).
I have no ties to either side, religious, political or geographical.
As I started reading the contributors here I understood that every reader knows about the blood on both sides (at least everyone prepared to listen objectively - cluster bombs for kids, Olympic killings, camp murders, bombings of buses, walls and settlements, water and power shut-offs, etc. - readers of such a site know them too well) and I realised: I can’t keep score anymore! Both sides have run up “wrong” scores beyond my scoreboard’s capacity. This latest is just one sides’ “infinity-plus-one.”
Anyone on either “side” is dirty.
Report thisA plague on both their houses.
By walldizo, July 21, 2008 at 3:01 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
To Cyrena,
Report thisThanks for your enlightened comment on my thread re;Israeli adherence to world’s legitimacy and the subsequent implementation of all relevent UNSC,as a condition to end this tragic piece of History.Yet, judging by the continued daily recurrence of Isaeli behavior toward the Palestinians, one would only believe that, peace and its elements essential for breaking ground for true peace, are all foreign concepts to the Israeli poltical agenda.Certainly you have seen today’s TV.caption of the Palestinian youth who was shot by an Isaeli soldier at short distance while blinded and with his hands tied to his back.Now, how would you describe such a surge of hate and anti-humanism of a Jewish soldier who carys no memory nor ties with the land on which he acts as a God capable of making and breaking the MAN.The irony of this tragic surrealism as explained by the Israeli statistics on religion in Israel, reveals that less than15% are true believers while over 90% don’t believe in God.But when it comes to Palestine those 90% who do not believe in God claime that that God had promised Palestine to them.So, can you figure that out??
By Malcolm Martin, July 20, 2008 at 8:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The growing irrationality of Israel’s political and intellectual leadership is one of the more striking signals of capitalism’s distress.
Capitalism created the idea of Zionism in its relentless drive to divide and more fully exploit the working people of the world. For the historic moment of capitalism’s rise Zionism has effectively built a wall between Jewish workers and their non-Jewish brothers and sisters. In the US it has made a distant memory of Jewish leadership in pitched battles on the streets of New York to form and build the garment and furriers unions. It has squashed the great Civil Rights Era coalition consecrated by the blood of Schwerner, Chaney and Goodman. It has made unity all but impossible. Zionism has performed as designed and essentially isolated Jewish workers in a “new Warsaw ghetto” called Israel.
The state that Zionism created has begun sensing its mortality and is thrashing around accordingly. The ravings of Israeli intellectual Benny Morris in the New York Times recently can now be added to mounting evidence that the guardians of the state are in the grip of panic. The recent exchange of fighters recalls the 2006 attacks on Lebanon and Gaza and the resultant killing of civilians and destruction of infrastructure, the kidnapping of Hamas legislators, the targeting of a U.N. observer post, and the outrage on Qana. Each a desperate act farther outside the bounds of common sense than the one before.
During the fighting with Hizbollah, completely out of the blue on repeated occasions and in leaflets dropped on the Lebanese, Israeli leaders felt compelled to mention their power to erase Lebanon from the planet. A strong and confident force does not act so. The Israelis are blustering past the graveyard and their bullys trepidation is now growing as the end nears.
Under normal circumstances the impending death of a form of racism like Zionism (see the picture of young Israeli girls writing messages and drawing on missile warheads soon to rain down on Lebanon) and the establishment of a secular state on the territory Israel now occupies where Palestinian Arabs of various religious persuasions and Jews could peacefully co-exist as equals would be cause for human celebration. Unfortunately, the panic that clearly grips Israel means they will likely join in U.S. attacks on Damascus and Tehran and resort to the use of their nuclear arsenal when all else fails. And that, on a larger scale, is the dilemma that the whole world faces as the capitalist system spearheaded by the United States begins experiencing its last gasps.
Report thisBy Howard, July 20, 2008 at 11:42 am #
How do you welcome a child murderer as a hero?
Depending on the tone, this question becomes an attempt to clarify, or an expression of outrage. Stated calmly, “How do you welcome a child murderer as a hero?” can be a factual question - such as the one that faced Lebanese leaders this week as they proceeded to celebrate the freeing of Samir Kuntar from an Israeli prison, where he had been held since 1979 for murdering 4-year-old Einat Haran, her father Danny Haran, and a policeman.
Stated angrily, “How do you welcome a child murderer as a hero?” is the question Israelis are asking - and the rest of the civilized world should be asking, too.
On the night of April 22, 1979, Kuntar, working with three other terrorists, took Danny and Einat hostage, marching them to the Mediterranean beach after seizing them in their home in the coastal city of Nahariya. After shooting Danny in front of his daughter, then drowning him to make sure he was dead, Kuntar turned on Einat. Swinging his rifle butt, he smashed the 4-year-old’s head against the rocks, until she too died.
——————-
And now….As the two coffins bearing the bodies of Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser arrived in Israel from Lebanon, the nation of Israel plunged into mourning. These two young men became the entire country’s collective children. Strangers who had never met either of them wept bitterly, sharing the pain of the family and the friends, remembering other losses, fearing more tragedies in the future.
By contrast, the massive celebrations in Lebanon for Kuntar and four other terrorists revealed not only the thuggery of Hezbollah but the descent of Lebanon itself. Rolling out the red carpet for a murderer, dispatching the country’s top leaders to greet someone who crushed a 4-year-old’s skull, declaring a national day of celebration, revealed just how thoroughly the Lebanese leadership had succumbed to the brutal sensibilities of Hassan Nasrallah and his Hezbollah terrorists. ( Toronto Gazette )
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/editoria l/story.html?id=d58f760a-55aa-45bf-aa5c-85bcda0cd072
Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, July 20, 2008 at 10:33 am #
Thank you Louise for responding to Howard. You know for myself, the worse thing about religion is that it corrupts spirituality. The God that the killers pray to, how can that be anything but false? I do not follow machine gun avatars.
Report thisAlso, on another thread, I tried to find a link for cyrena but failed. Anyway, for one wondering about Barack Obama and Madeline Albright, an article by Mark Steel of the Independent reveals that former Secretary Albright and former Secretary Warren Christopher are now part of Obama’s foreign policy team. Since the links failed, I suggest just putting into Google: “mark steel on barack obama’ and it will be found. Peace
By Louise, July 20, 2008 at 8:29 am #
Howard:
“There is something morally repulsive in the heros welcome given the most famous - or notorious - “
~~~
Cant argue with that. Elevating to the status of National leader, the “hero” Arial Sharon, responsible for -
Blowing up forty-five houses, killing sixty-nine civilians, two-thirds women and children, in the village of Qibiyahad, in 1953. Killing over 270 Egyptian prisoners of war in the Sinai campaign of 1956. The 1982 massacre of 700 to 3000 Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps.
The Wall.
Killing of 3500 Palestinians, including nearly 650 children, second Intifada under his leadership.
All somehow “morally repulsive.”
Likewise, elevating to the status of National leader the “hero” Ehud Barak, seen firing shots into the body of 19-year-old Dalal Moghraby, and dragging her across a road.
Guess that’s simple degradation, but still repulsive.
Illustrates clearly what ‘thebeerdoctor’ alluded to when he said, there are some things that crawl on the ground for so long that even Thomas Edison cant figure them out ergo the Middle Easts continuous conflicts.” To which we can comfortably add, ergo the violence in the history of the world that marks all “religious, ethnic, racial” struggles.
Each one, in each period of history clearly defined by this leader or that as a struggle to bring about God’s will.
So, do we blame, God?
No, we blame man who has taken the name of God for low these many centuries and used that name to commit all manor of horror. We hear about the final judgment. Seriously does anyone honestly believe there will be one man left standing who can be found blameless? That reality makes the whole concept of “final judgment” a bit hard to grasp. But “final judgment” does offer an open door to the many who continue to commit all manor of horror in the name of God.
Meanwhile, back on Earth ... the real world continues to reel and bleed, and who cares? Certainly not the majority of those men who speak in the name of God. From our very own president to the Pope, where is the sincere call for an end to violence, and peace in the world?
Oh there are plenty of calls, but each is cloaked in the cape of hubris and conceit that say’s, absolutely, just as soon as I get what I want, and just as soon as it’s done “my” way.
And that guarantees there will never be peace.
There’s plenty of blame to go around. No one’s immune. But like it or not the clear reality is simply this. While Israel and Palestine jockey for position, stating my good is better than your good, in fact what they are saying is my bad is just as bad as your bad, because good needs no proof and bad always needs justification.
The man who went on a rampage with a bulldozer in Israel is no more or less bad than the man who bulldozed Rachel Corrie to death in Palestine. Pick your villain. There are plenty to go around. But please, don’t try to tell me evil done by Palestine is more evil than evil done by Israel.
Evil is evil, no matter who or why. It’s just plain evil. Which just goes to show, those who commit evil acts, whether Israeli or Palestinian are both fighting on the same side. And the enemy is peace.
Which side are you on?
Report thisBy Paul_GA, July 20, 2008 at 4:00 am #
In case anyone wishes to read it, Britain’s Guardian posted an interview with Kuntar (or Qantar; take your pick) in which he doesn’t admit to anything—-but he has no remorse:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/19/lebanon .israelandthepalestinians
Report thisBy Howard, July 20, 2008 at 3:38 am #
There is something morally repulsive in the hero’s welcome given the most famous - or notorious - of the Lebanese prisoners released by Israel. Samir Kuntar had been sentenced to 542 years in prison for killing four people during a raid in 1979. Kuntar executed a father, Danny Haran, in front of his 4-year-old daughter. Then he killed the little girl by smashing her head against a rock with a rifle butt. This is the creature Nasrallah hailed as a resistance hero, the figure Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh called a “huge hero who sacrificed 30 years of his life for the Palestinian issue,” the celebrity that Lebanon’s president and prime minister saluted as a liberated freedom fighter. All wars are inhumane. But not all warriors lose their humanity. (Boston Globe)
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion /editorials/articles/2008/07/18/a_strange_kind_of_hero/
Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, July 20, 2008 at 2:46 am #
Responding to the pertinent notes from Louise, all I can say is: “there are some things that crawl on the ground for so long that even Thomas Edison can’t figure them out” ergo the Middle East’s continuous conflicts.
Report thisBy Sepharad, July 19, 2008 at 11:20 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Blue Eagle, I agree absolutely. Israel should have shot the five prisoners in exchange for the soldiers’ bodies.
I think Israel’s current PM and some of his commanders conducted the war badly, but have absolutely no problem with the concept of responding to such a provocation—deliberate kidnapping of soldiers on Israel’s soil—by attacking. I hope that in future a more competent PM will serve—hopefully Tzipi Livni.
The biggest problem Israel (and the rest of the civilized world) has is how to respond to death-worshipping Islamist fascists who deliberately fight among civilian populations (to get the good pr of a high civilian deathrate), and who profess to embrace death yet dupe others into martyring themselves.
Anyone who seriously celebrates a Hezbollah or Hamas victory is beyond all reason. These people want to drag the rest of their unfortunate tribal society back into the stoneage, though they are quite happy to use lethal modern weapons to achieve their sick, sick ends.
We will never again allow Jewish blood to be spilt as cheaply as it was on Masada, in the Holocaust and at Munich. As for all you all nambypamby antiSemites peeking out under your rocks, you may be more comfortable with, even venerate, Jews who lie down and die, but that’s not going to happen any more. Get over it.
Report thisBy Louise, July 19, 2008 at 3:18 pm #
When France and Great Briton created their version of the Holy Land, a lot of shuffling took place. Sometimes it reflected the will of those unfortunate enough to have to depend on Europeans to decide what their homeland should be. But often as not the inhabitants desires were unimportant.
Try to establish a coherent series of maps that resulted in today’s questionable borders in Israel, and I promise, you will find as many versions of what belonged to who as there are versions of Grimm’s Fairy Tales. The notion that there can ever be a two state solution to the Israel/Palestine issue is beyond impossible. It’s plain hopeless.
Look at today’s map of the two countries and you see a few scattered pods belonging to Palestine. Separated and walled off from each other. And what lies between? A hostile Israel, ever encroaching into what’s left of widely scattered Palestine.
Sites of historically significant to Palestine are of equal historical significance to Israel. But the accessibility to the one is largely controlled by the will of the other. And the other [Israel} sees their significance as having more value.
Laying out the borders of a nation on the premise that it should be racially, ethnically and religiously pure guarantees trouble. Particularly if that nation refuses to recognize the racial, ethnic and religious rights of the nation that was there before they arrived. There can never be a successful two state solution, unless the land mass is equally divided and given to the two sides and how likely is that to happen?
Who will monitor the argument over which side is best, and where this or that nation needs to move? If a two state solution was established and based on current locations, it can be assured Palestine wont be happy. Would you? Would you accept the splitting up of your family and your holdings and your heritage for the comfort and convenience of someone who has squatted on what was once yours?
Israel claims to be a democracy. In a democracy all citizens are supposed to have equal rights. And the land and resources, work and lives of the residents are supposed to be guaranteed against government seizure. But squatters moving in on Palestinian land, backed up by the force of the Israel military can be nothing but government seizure. So Israel is not a democracy.
If we here in our democracy are intent on continuing to delude ourselves that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, then we need to demand they start behaving like one. And if they refuse to, we need to withdraw our support. That’s pretty simple, isn’t it? I think even a sixth grader could understand that.
If Israel were actually a democracy, they would be the first to realize a one state solution is the only democratic solution to the problem between the Palestinians and the Israelis. They need to get along if they are going to continue sharing that bit of land. And more important. The Palestinians need to have the opportunity to legally regain the farms and homes they’ve been pushed out of. Then if the squatters want to live where the Palestinians are, they can make an offer to buy what they want. If someone doesn’t want to sell, they can go elsewhere. Sounds impossible. But really nothing else will work.
As far as naming the place is concerned. I suspect that and the flag will be the biggest sticking point. Palestine wont likely accept the Star of David and Israel wont likely give up the notion that all of the Holly Land should belong exclusively to them.
So lets revisit history. Call the place the Land of Jerusalem, as it was called during the 26th Egyptian Dynasty. Or the land of Palestine as it was called during the 19th Egyptian Dynasty, and again during the life of Christ. And design a blue and green flag with a white dove of peace.
Report thisI should live so long ...
By Kellina, July 19, 2008 at 1:20 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
* Who has been ethnically cleansing some of their own people for decades?
* Who continues to occupy, rob, humiliate and murder its neighbors?
* Who claims to be a Western-style democracy but is in reality an apartheid-loving ethnocracy?
* Who has ignored nearly 40 UN resolutions, flouts international law and is oblivious to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
* Who has been caught spying in the US, stealing state secrets, including nuclear technology?
* Who attacked the US in 1967 and tried to blame it on another country?
* Who by all intelligent accounts was one of the forced behind the 9/11 attacks?
* Who, along with their US sympathizers, has majority control of the US media?
* Who, along with their US sympathizers, control the political and defense structures in the US (state dept, CIA, congress, president, judiciary)?
* Who has a policy of carrying out domestic and international assassinations in lieu of trials?
* Who are the real terrorists—killing civilians?
* Who use deceit and manipulation to extract funds from the US to the tune of billions per year?
Yes, sadly, it’s our “friend and ally,” Israel. The above list was off the top of my head except for the first few items, which came from this article:
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/occupat ion-reality-check-friends-of-israel-are-blind-to-the-truth/
Report thisBy cyrena, July 19, 2008 at 12:30 pm #
Walldizo,
You couldn’t be more correct or perspective in my opinion.
Whether or not Israel will ever get the message that it is actually to their benefit to respect the resolutions of the UNSC is still a major question in my mind. There is literally no logical rational for their continued behavior, which is what makes it next to impossible to believe that they actually DO wish to live in peace.
It just doesn’t seem that way to me. There’s been no evidence of it…AT ALL.
However, the second portion of your comment has everything to do with the logistics of how long they can exercise the option of maintaining hostilities. Without the continued US support, (and yes, appeasement if we wish to call it that) and by isolation from the rest of the world community, they may become more inclined to monitor their behavior.
We can hope.
Report thisBy Emma, July 19, 2008 at 10:11 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Golly. Now I remember why I stopped reading Robert Fisk.
Report thisBy Paul_GA, July 19, 2008 at 5:48 am #
In the end, I believe, the only way to stop terrorism is to cease the behavior which gives terrorism its raison d’etre, even if doing so looks like “appeasement” or “admitting defeat” to the right-wing pundits and the dittoheads.
Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, July 18, 2008 at 3:58 pm #
A pertinent question to ask here: Why did Israel return the five living prisoners? Obviously the “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” has a different agenda than the ideology proclaimed. What was this really all about?
Report thisBy BlueEagle, July 18, 2008 at 3:19 pm #
Israel now negotiates with terrorists. This has sent a terrible precedent for the future.
Worse is that they traded two soldiers that were known to be dead for live terrorists. Israel should have shot each one and returned the terrorists in kind.
Report thisBy David Dixit, July 18, 2008 at 2:25 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
It is clear now, as it has always been, that there should be a Palestinian state.
Report thisBy walldizo, July 18, 2008 at 11:06 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
These cycles of violence brought by the Israeli occupation and its desire for more expansions have resulted in this continued proliferation of terror and agony among the people of the ME.All sorrows and miseries could have been avoided had Israel respected the UNSC resolutions pertinent to this conflict.Part of the blame for the on- going tragedy sould be directed toward the US for its appeasment of Israel.We hope to see this last presinor’s exchange as a last act of hostilities, opening the road for a durable and lasting peace in the region.
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