Scottk,

You’re one of the many ideologues who like to do the ‘love/hate’ thing. I’m not into ‘love or hate’ for political candidates.

I ‘love’ my family, though they’ve occasionally been known to do stupid stuff that I hate. This is not a situation that extends to political officials, (at least not for me) because I have few ‘heroes or heroines’ among public figures. (I do have a few, but you wouldn’t recognize them).

That said, it’s not about either in the case of Obama or Hillary. I have always been impressed with Barack Obama since he first made his way into the national conscience, but I did not immediately decide to support him, because I didn’t know that much about him. I needed to listen, and watch, and see what he did, and what he was about. At the beginning of this forever long election cycle, I put my support behind Dennis Kucinich, because he HAS been around longer, and so I DID know more about him, and I still like him. I’m sorry that he didn’t go further, but that’s what happened.

Needless to say, I also know Hillary Clinton, and I am well aware of her political career. I’m less than a decade younger than she is, and because I am politically involved, I’ve obviously paid attention.

I say that to say that MOST of the posters here have done the same, and we’ve frequently commented on the talents that she HAS displayed over the years. And yes, there is a time when I would have voted for her, for the job. But that was a LONG time ago, and before I was even as informed as I am now, and at a time when the country was at a different place as well. It was in the 20th Century, and now we’re in the 21st Century.

Hillary blew up her own political career by her exceedingly bad choices. The worst was her authorization for the Iraq War. Consequently, Hillary Clinton ceased to be a consideration -for ME- as president, even before she began her campaign.

The red herring of comparing their voting records is nothing but that. It’s meaningless in context to the specifics. So what if they both agreed that the lines of the cross walk should be painted white instead of yellow. Hillary supported the Kyle-Lieberman amendment, which was yet another horrifically bad piece of legislation, and in the same vein as her support for an illegal war of aggression, unsupported by a resolution from the UN Security Council.

I would also add that I don’t agree with everything that Obama has come up with, but I very MUCH despise the poor judgment that HRC has displayed; first in authorizing an aggressive war, because she APPROVED of it. I was one of the many millions of people who were vocally opposed to the war before it was launched, -AS WAS BARACK OBAMA- I very much disapprove of her as a choice for the one who would make such future decisions.

Since the on-set of this election process, Hillary has made EVEN WORSE choices, and displayed a behavior that lacks judgment, integrity, and any measure of Statesmanship. She is a danger to the hopeful repair of our nation, just as John McCain would now be.

During the SAME time, Obama has managed to prove what I and most other Americans needed to see and learn about him. That’s what these campaigns are supposed to be about. Not about a love or hate thing, but about who displays the best abilities to do the required job.

That makes him the obvious choice.

Hillary and Obama’s voting records are nearly identical why so much hate for her(which i also have), and so much love for Obama?

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/6/10385/88713

Just to make scottk feel better, the liar accusations, which are more clearly explained my standard process of exposing trolls, is intended for bg1 as well, and any other trolling liars who might appear.

As for the accomplishments, maybe you both should just pay more attention to what Obama has done, and what he actually SAYS in his speeches. Or, because it’s so obvious that you’re into your own swiftboating operation here, maybe you should actually try to find a legitimate grievance to associate with him. Except of course, you’re not that smart, so you just throw out a bunch of shit, and hope that some of it will stick.

You might also check his Illinois Senator website, to see what he’s doing now, to address the huge problem that our vets are facing in dealing with the VA and the atrocities of that bureaucracy in denying them the proper diagnosis of PTSD and the care that they need for it. Too bad HRC hasn’t bothered. It seems like since she’s been on the Senate Armed Services committee for over 5 years, she might have actually done something for our vets, besides authorizing their non-stop deployment, for tour after tour after tour.

So, why don’t you actually check this stuff out, instead of trolling through BS propaganda from the MSM

http://obama.senate.gov/

And yes, I saw the propaganda headline from the propaganda CNN distributor of propaganda, because that’s what CNN is. Why anyone thinks it’s any different from FOX always astounds me.

So, just because you see a lying headline that claims Obama ‘endorsed’ Lieberman, (with no proof that it is true…how does one ‘endorse’ another) and you believe that despite a RECORD (paper trail) of evidence that confirms that he supported Lamont. (emails to ½ million supporters in Connecticut, and $5,000. TRACEABLE dollars).

What piss poor citizens you are…if all you can do is believe whatever you want to believe, without the slightest bit of common sense analysis or connecting of the dots.

And by the way, I did not ATTACK you. I simply pointed out the truth. The truth that you were lying and spinning by the use of your propaganda, which is such standard troll behavior, that it’s immediately obvious. So don’t flatter yourself into thinking it was an ‘attack’. It was simply a verification of the fact that you are lying, and it doesn’t make you the least bit ‘special’. Trolls like you drop in on this site all of the time, and when I notice it, and have the time, I simply expose you for what you are.

So don’t flatter yourselves. Trolls like you are a dime a dozen.

And why don’t you answer Bg1 questions, what has he done execept give a couple nice speeches?

And by the way, why did you attack me and not the guy who posted right after me who said he was going to say the same thing, just curious. I take it as flattery, you are obvious afraid of what i have to say as if anyone really reads this stuff, but thank god for the electoral college where my vote in a swing states counts for some much more than other peoples votes in large non swing states.

So I am a liar, the only lair I see is you, lent me explain if you in fact did Google Obama endorses Lieberman, then the first story you seen would have seen would have been this: http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/ 2006/03/31/obama_rallies_state_democrats_throws_support_beh ind_lieberman/

not the article you sighted, but thats ok, I have noticed you Obama sycophants seem to hear and see what ever it is you want to see, not that i am surprised they have an old saying hope springs eternal, but i digress.

The article above clearly states Obama called Lieberman is mentor and he endorses him in the Democratic primary. You also claim that like all senators he campaigned for an embattled member of his party, so i guess by that you are conseding he is just like any Washington politian, all ambition not principle.

Actually, I DON’T remember this. Seems like I would too, if Obama actually CAMPAIGNED for Lieberman. I mean, it wasn’t that long ago. Admittedly, I wasn’t paying much attention to Obama’s ‘behavior’ in the Lieberman/Lamont race, and thinking back, I can’t imagine why I would have expected Obama to be involved in the Connecticut Senatorial race.

So, Obama ‘struggled so hard’ to get Lieberman re-elected, eh?

I’m not sure why, but this has a ring of bullshit to it. That’s what happens when trolls go overboard. If you’d kept it simple, (stupid) by just saying something like, “Obama endorsed Lieberman over Lamont” I might have figured that it might be true, and that I’d just missed it.

Instead, you claim that he ‘struggled so hard’ to get Lieberman re-elected, and the ‘campaigned against’ language is a dead give away. You amateur trolls are soooo transparent. Karl Rove would NOT be pleased with your performance. Sounds like you’ve been ditching Karl’s classes.

Meantime, check this out from the Boston Globe. I’ve only included the first most relevant part of the article, but I’ve also included the link as well.

~Lamont gets lift from Obama, Lieberman campaigns with Landrieu

By Andrew Miga, Associated Press Writer | October 26, 2006

HARTFORD, Conn. --Ned Lamont got a boost Thursday from one of the Democratic party’s brightest rising stars, Sen. Barack Obama.

The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message to his Connecticut supporters urging them to rally behind Lamont’s challenge to three-term Sen. Joe Lieberman.
“Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election,” Obama wrote. “Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign.”

The Lamont camp said Obama’s e-mail went to about 5,000 Connecticut residents.

Lamont aides said they welcomed the support of Obama, who has enjoyed a surge in popularity in recent weeks as speculation about his national ambitions mounts.

“He’s a very credible, charismatic and inspiring politician,” said senior Lamont adviser Tom D’Amore. “We’re thrilled to have his support.”
Obama has also given $5,000 to Lamont’s campaign through a political committee.

“Ned Lamont and I share a commitment to bringing our troops home safely from Iraq, to achieving energy independence, to helping all our citizens realize the American dream, and to empowering the American people to reclaim their government,” Obama wrote.”

http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/ 2006/10/26/lamont_gets_lift_from_obama_lieberman_campaigns_ with_landrieu?mode=PF

This would pretty much indicate that you’re full of shit.

Obama writes an E-MAIL in support of Lamont, and sends it to his own supporters in Connecticut, and donates $5,000. to his campaign through a political committee, and YOU claim that he has ‘campaigned AGAINST him’ and ‘struggled to get Lieberman re-elected’.

There oughtta be a law against liars like you. But, this is such a ‘free country’ and all, that you can lie with impunity, and just hope nobody calls you on it.

“...And while there are those who might say, “Oh Louise you’re just paranoid.” I respond, “If you’re NOT paranoid, you’re Not paying attention!”

Louise, this is one of the many things that I’ve learned from you. You told me this a long time ago, and I’ve never forgotten it. If you’re not paranoid, you’re not paying attention!

OR..there is one other scenario..in some cases, if we’re not paranoid, it’s because we’re ignorantly arrogant.

Still, I’ve taken this very much to heart. So, I make it a point to maintain a level of paranoia.

Couldn’t figure out exactly why I had to Hold my Nose and Vote for Gore/Liebermann and Kerry/Edwards, Bu thaving just pulled up a List of DLC’ers, I NOW Know. My Intution could SMELL the Corp Stench of these covert NeoCONS. Granted Gore has done some Good things since- So he should STAY THERE!Edwards still Reeks, reason no one bought his ‘Worker’ rights BS!Hillary exudes this rancid Odor for miles- the Dogs of Industry LOVE her!That is why theyare trying EVERY Ploy to get her the nomination (they already Crowned her a few years Back)and if these tactics don’t work - they will steal it for her. If that fails, they still have their OTHER Horse in the Race- MAC.Granted not only are the DLC’ers complicite in the ‘Cheney Inc’ New World Order, bu tI assume their ‘applications ‘ are still under consideration, so they are doing everything they can to stay in good Graces- Pelosi,Reid, Levin etc etc. We only have as many True Blue Dems left in Gov’t as the Old School Republicans have left standing.
I would like to see Obama offer Hagel the VP. And Undermine Both these NeoCON Elements. Bill was the ONLY DLC’er to be able to deceive real Dems enough to get in Office. The Rest could Not ‘Seal The Deal’ the DNC should bear this in Mind Today. I will not vote for Hillary, in any way shape or form, Her REd Logo’ed slip IS showing. Not to mention what a detriment she has been for women who strive everyday for Equality, We DO NOT DEMAND ANY BAR BE LOWERED - it only undermines our efforts and our principles. Seh should not only be denied the nomination, she should be run out of the Dem party along with her Cohort LIEbermann (who the other traitors have allowed to remain in positions of influence under the guise of ‘impartiality’/Independent.In fact she and th erest of the Armed Servcies Com (Con) should be charged with Dereliction of Duty!

“Military conflicts don’t end on their own, and they don’t end because of politicians, insiders and parties. They are forced to end by power-challenging mass movements. That is the principle behind the Lamont Lesson—and we’re lucky that lesson is again being taught.”

But lets not forget that other lesson we seem to have so much trouble learning!

Lieberman did not win, he cheated.

Interesting how quickly he has changed identity and become the darling of the McCain campaign. Not the same man he was a decade ago.

When keeping your seat becomes more important than keeping your integrity, that’s when you seek out the machinations developed by a corrupt RNC and promise loyalty in exchange for that “guaranteed” seat.

That’s what happened to Lieberman.

Who knows? Maybe the SOB was actually working for the Bush back in the day when all those chads were hanging. I still remember vividly his nonsensical verbiage while daily explaining to the press what he was doing to right an obvious wrong. Now I have to wonder, in his alien mind which was which?

And while there are those who might say, “Oh Louise you’re just paranoid.” I respond, “If you’re NOT paranoid, you’re Not paying attention!”

So be wary, very wary of anyone who gets to chummy with the GOP!

While we’re busy trying to get that mass movement really massive, just remember ... they still cheat!

I like your comment.  And I agree with your last “big point.” When you live in a country like America and contribute with your hard work and taxes, it seems to me you have the right to mind your business with the assurance from your government that it will not impede your efforts and protect you from those who may want to.

Don’t you think that these times now might mandate that people don’t “answer their country’s call” without first thinking exactly what the call entails?  George Bush, the decider and now I recognize as the new Merriam-Webster, has redefined the whole idea of military, patriotism, terror, war, WMD, “nukuler,” extremists, spreading democracy, and on and on.  It’s no longer a matter of “being called to defend your country.” That hasn’t happened in a long time, has it?

As a side note, the basis of the Bush war on terror, al Qaida, is in a shambles with a philosophical dispute over the use of violence.  Maybe they’re listening to the American left.  We finally got to McClellan.

That is why we should vote Nader or some other third party, after all Lieberman wasn’t the democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate and Obama campaigned for him anyway, so we should repay his efforts, by supporting the democratic party nominee in his race for president. I mean does anyone need more evidence of this man’s sold out, insider Washington, like Lieberman I will say anything to get elected. For god sakes he campaigned for the most disgusting sell out, Zionist idiot on the plant, he wants to go to war with Iran and he is still in the U.S. Senate and may become McCain’s running mate all because wise change agents like Obama struggled so hard to make sure real change agent like Lieberman got reelected. Wake up people, he is like bill Clinton in 92, remember all the putting people first stuff, we just miss understood by putting people first he really corporate people but i am sure Obama is different, after all the way he behaved in the Lieberman/Lamont race tell me so, yeah right.

The anti-war movement is ubiquitous and not new.  Those of us strongly against the war have to believe that all the protest, because of its strength, will eventually be heeded.

But this is not enough.  Our goverment has to be convinced that the majority of American voters want a change in the DC mindset that war is inevitable and necessary.  We have to cange the normal, destructive, sociopathic behaviour of our government from warning (knowing we’re going to shoot anyway), then shooting, to talking and negotiating and becoming a world player first and avoiding war at all costs.  Our DOD has to be just that, a DOD. 

Most Americans now know that the human and monetary cost of war inflicted on them by the MIC is immoral and, in every respect, unaffordable.

We can not stop our efforts to indelibly impress that fact on the minds of those we send to DC to represent us so that this doesn’t ever happen again.