By Rus7355, June 26 at 6:01 pm #

“The conversation between Beck and myself has little to do with Israel. The conversation was in regards to a threat assessment of Iran. Not Israel”.

Maybe someone should do a threat assessment on Israel, it is their provocative banter which is increasing tensions in that region.  Iran wouldn’t be an issue if Israel would quit making daily war threats.

Who do you think is pushing the U.S. down this path to war? 

“I find your constant focus on Israel tedious and myopic in focus. That single minded bigotry is unhelpful”.

Unhelpful to whom?  Get use to it.

•  “..In Lebanon we saw 182 American Marines blown up during a peace keeping mission. We saw the Khobar Towers blown up in Saudi Arabia. Each of those actions are internationally recognized acts of war.”

Wrong again Russ7777, because it was NOT a peacekeeping mission, and the US was on the sovereign territory of another state. Regardless of whether or not you’ll ever accept it Russ, state sovereignty is KEY to international law. It is THE HIGHEST priority in International relations between nation states. The US doesn’t own Lebanon, and the US doesn’t own Saudi Arabia, and the US doesn’t own Iraq or Afghanistan, no matter how much you wish that to be true.

The USS Cole was sabotaged/terrorized in 2000, as it was illegally docked at Yemen. Many sailors were killed and injured. One of the parents of one of the sailors sued the US Pentagon for wrongful death of her sailor son, and she won the case.

She won because Yemen was NOT on the plan for the USS Cole, not even for a pass -thru, let along an extended stay. Let me repeat. There are international laws that all nations are expected to abide. When ANY country encroaches upon the sovereign soil/territory of another nation state; THAT is an act of war.

It is a breach of the Geneva Conventions, unless the encroaching state has obtained a resolution from the UN Security Council. Understand that Russ, because it isn’t going to change. It’s based on customary law, and it’s been codified.

The attack on the embassy in Iran is an exception, because in legal terms, that building…the Embassy, is actually US sovereign territory. So, that would obviously be taken into the proper context, if it were ever to be addressed in an international court. But, I think the Iranians made it clear that they didn’t want the US interfering in their affairs any longer, and they had much to be annoyed about, after the CIA overthrew the democratically elected and very popular president Mossadegh, in 1954. As you should well know, that was because Mossadegh was in the process of nationalizing that country’s oil industry, which would have left the Brits out of the action. This is the standard procedure for US take-overs of the past half-century, (in some cases longer) and at some point in time, ALL members of the US population WILL become as educated about these events as are the members of the nations that have been subjected to these take-overs.

Patrick Henry,

Thanks for your post #165661. I too appreciated the response from Beck, and yours as well.

Something has slowly ‘dawned’ on me in the past several weeks, in reference to Russ7whatever. My guess, (and admittedly, that’s all it is) is that Russ is a member of one of the many subversive groups who are violently opposed to the current Iranian regime, and are willing to assist in the destruction of that nation state, if that’s what is required to overthrow that regime.

The current US regime has long since organized these various groups of ‘dissidents’ both here and inside Iran. The US is ALSO using al-Qaeda to launch aggressions against the Iranians as well.

The worst of it is that our money is funding these operations as well, and an additional ‘guess’ is that Russ whomever, is a recipient of such funds, and highly likely is paid to post anti-Iranian propaganda on these and other blogs.

Needless to say, it is the epitome of perfidy and treason, (if he were an Iranian himself, and I don’t know that he is…there are many US operatives involved, beyond just the CIA, which is pretty standard). But, that will hopefully explain the nature of his obnoxious posts. There IS a reason. He has a job to do, as a subversive troll operative.

Just a couple of links that might provide some background.

http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2007/060407An ti-Iranian.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/feb/16/usnews. iran/print

By Beck, June 26 at 7:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Very true, good post.

By Rus7355, June 26 at 11:54 am #

Your obviously with the Israel first crowd.  If Israel makes a first strike against Iran, they deserve the losses they get, if the U.S. intervenes, I hope open revolution against the U.S. government begins as unpopular this act of war would be.

The Israel-Arab conflicts in the middleast have bled the United States financially for decades, the cost of waging war on the other side of the world for really no reason and my government borrowing the money to do it. 

Cut off all AID to Israel and withdraw all our troops from Iraq and Afganistan and gas would plummet.  More pressing matters here in America.

Nabih,

AGAIN…my thanks to you for your continuing gifts of knowledge. That is how I receive every post from you; as a gift of knowledge/information that I would not otherwise have known, or had to the proper tools with which to research or discover on my own.

Indeed, I’ve ALWAYS known that none of the rhetoric of Ahmadinejad, (or any other of the previous and current leaders in the Middle East) was ever intended as Israel and the West have chosen to interpret it, bastardizing it in the process. And then, they use it to create an entirely contrary image (to the rest of the world)of what the reality actually is.

It is from this that comes (I think) the ‘myth’ that Iranian and other leaders speak of in reference to the Holocaust. In so far as any ‘connection’ to the Middle East and the genocides that have occured THERE, it IS a myth.

Anyway, thanks again. I don’t speak or understand Arabic (or Persian) at even the most basic of levels, and I’ve admitted being ‘scared off’ from undertaking any study of it, just because I’ve been forewarned that it is a very difficult language to learn, and that it does require full attention. (like, I probably couldn’t study much else at the same time). Still, I’m very anxious to understand the CORRECT interpretation of whatever pretains to the on-going struggle for self-determination for SO MUCH of the Arab and other Islamic peoples of the world, and specifically in the Middle East. To do that requires some knowledge of the language, or at least a professional helper who can interpret it for us.

So, I’ve saved this to my collection of much have information. Thanks again.

cyrena

Dr mamoud ahmadi nejad?

best

http://www.prosefights.org/thecanadian/thecanadian.htm

Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.

cheers

http://www.prosefights.org/bakhtiardead/bakhtiardead.htm

You’re right of course Johnathon, but there IS a reason for it, having nothing to do with Iran and nukes of course. It was part of the plan all along. And then too, as Louise mentioned a while back, they’ve got all of these new war toys they’re anxious to play with.

There was a piece I read earlier today, (though I can’t find it right now) with Gates saying pretty much the same thing. He wants them to use all of the new equipment NOW. (he didn’t specifically say to use it on Iran, but the plans are all in the works, and have been for a long time).

Meantime, I don’t think the letter from Conyers is ‘pointless’ but rather a reminder of the way the Constitution is set up, which is of course to remind that it is only CONGRESS that can declare war. Now of course you’re right that stuff like the Constitution doesn’t stop this regime from doing whatever they’ve planned or want to do, but it’s still not a bad idea to educate or re-aquaint the public (that’s us) with the basic concepts of that blueprint for our government that we call a democracy. And, that is that the executive branch can’t just decide to wage a war on Iran without an approval from the Congress.

In reality, the wording of the original ‘permission’ that Congress gave for Iraq, could be taken as continuing ‘permission’ to bomb anybody that Dick Bush wants to claim is involved in ‘terrorism’ and of course he ‘decides’ that.

So, in that respect, the notice from Conyers may not do any good, but I hate to call it pointless, since after more than 7 years, it’s about time for there to be some opposition to the destruction of the Constitution by the fascists in charge.

It isn’t really a resolution though, (at least not if you’re talking about the same thing that I think you are). As far as I know, the fascists aren’t planning to request a resolution from the UN. They didn’t get one to invade Iraq, so I doubt they’d even consider such an effort for Iran. Beides, there’s no time. They have to be into this before Dick Bush leaves office.

Non Credo,

I ditto Evillive.

So, I guess I won’t say it again. Well, maybe I could add that the US (and any other nation states obligated to the NPT) are supposed to ASSIST the non-nuclear states in the developement of this technology that can be used for useful civilian purposes.

That’s quite the opposite of threatening to destroy them for attempting to acquire it.

The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots from time to time….

I must acknowledge that Conyers has disappointed before. Can’t deny it. And, I’m not certain of all the reasons. But, I’m willing to pay attention to this latest effort, if for no other reason than the fact that it IS one.

We’re going to ask retired FBI agent Wayne R Gilbert for suggestions

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/fbifoia/fbifoia. htm#towayne

Dear President Carter:

An unfortunate situation resulting from your administration’s decision by apparently Zibigniew Brzezinski to incite Saddam Hussein to attack Iran in 1980 requires your immediate help to try to resolve peacefully. ..

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/nsalawsuit/nsala wsuit.htm#carter

I’ve copied this from the Truthout site to share on this thread, since it couldn’t be more appropriate.

I’m sharing with my local organizations as well, including those that have been committed to the impeachment of Richard B. Cheney. (nope, we haven’t given up). The full letter is contained at the link.

~Editor’s Note: Although this document, authored by House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, Jr., contains a direct appeal for political action
we feel it is nonetheless striking. It is news unto itself. As such we offer it as news. ma/TO~

From: The office of House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, Jr.
May 8, 2008

Join Me in Calling on President Bush to Respect Congress’ Exclusive Power to
Declare War

Dear Democratic Colleague:

As we mark five years of war in Iraq, I have become increasingly concerned that the President may possibly take unilateral, preemptive military action against Iran. During the last seven years, the Bush Administration has exercised unprecedented assertions of Executive Branch power and shown an unparalleled aversion to the checks and balances put in place by the Constitution’s framers. The letter that follows asks President Bush to seek congressional authorization before launching any possible military strike against Iran and affirms Senator Biden’s statement last year that impeachment proceedings should be considered if the President fails to do so.

I hope that you will join me in calling on the President to respect Congress’
exclusive power to declare war. To sign the letter below, please contact the Judiciary Committee staff at 225-3951.

Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
Chairman

The letter and all appropriate citations is at the link below.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051308A.shtml

Johanna,

The people in Iran are still friendly, knowledgable and courteous. That hasn’t changed.

I wasn’t around at the time of Mossadeq’s overthrow, but I’ve read much about it, and it makes ME cry. The Iranians loved him, and had he NOT been overthrown by the CIA/US we can assure that Iran would have a totally different regime. The Theocratic regime was only a reaction to that, and that’s exactly what happens in a coup of any sort.

The horrible reality is that the US has done this in so many nations. Someone else mentioned here that Ahmadinejad would never have been elected if Bush hadn’t decided to tell the Iranian people that they were part of an “Axis of Evil”. I might not have understood what they meant say 5 or 6 years ago, because I didn’t know that much about the politics of Iran at that time in their history.

But, it makes all the sense in the world, if we simply consider the political mindset of ANY group of people anywhere. (except maybe the US under a fascist regime as we have now.)

The reaction to such threats from a ‘superpower’ would be to elect a conservative person who can sprout just as much bullshit as our own regime, and someone who appears to take a hard line, because of the hard, intolerant bullying that has come from the bullier. (GW Bush).

And, because GW is so totally stupid in his arrogance, neither he or any of his so-called advisors or puppet masters seem capable of acknowledging common logic. If you attack somebody, they are likely to bite back, even if it’s only in the form of rhetoric.

So, the Iranians elected Ahmadinejad as their spokesperson. He is certainly NOT the only voice that speaks from the Iranian regime, but I don’t find him any more bellicose than what we have here, in the form of Dick Bush, and he’s considerably more intelligent than either of them.

Thanks for posting this interview with Morris Motamed. I was aware that he was the only Jewish minister in the Iranian parliament, but I’d never come across any opportunities to hear from him.

Thanks again.

I doubt the current president of iran would have won office if the US president had not labelled Iran as part of an “axis of evil”

the US and Iranian presidents feed on each others bellicosity

the staffs of the Iranian and American presidents are apparently filled with policy flame-throwers who are not themselves in harms way when bombs are set off, otherwise they’d think harder about imposing such violence on everyone else

Absolutely Cyrena.

You know Obama had to pass the “smell test” lest all the editors from the major news mags descend upon him at the early stage of his candidacy. 

Its still not over and he will come under increasing scrutiny of the zionist press, who will mis-report, lie and sensationalize minor gaffs 24/7.

Once he is in office, I pray he cleans house of these vermin.

I stand corrected on my lack of complete information on Obama’s comments on Israel…Just read this from the NYT From Obama.

•  “I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and his decision to meet with Hamas,” Mr. Obama said last month in a speech to Jewish leaders in Philadelphia. “We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel’s destruction.”

Ok, I personally have a ‘fundamental difference’ with Sen. Obama on this, specifically the wording, and it is THIS wording…

“A terrorist group intent on Israel’s destruction”
First, I don’t consider Hamas a ‘terrorist group’. Rather, they are a group that formed as a result of the Occupation of Palestinian lands, and the failure of Israel to ever abide by any of the dozen or more resolutions and other agreements as negotiated.
I’m also tired of hearing the rhetoric about them being ‘intent on Israel’s destruction’. That is old stuff, and it’s no different OR worse than the rhetoric that comes from the US or anybody else. It’s definitely WORDS, which have absolutely no possibility of becoming reality in the face of what is obviously Israel’s mighty war machine, and the non-existence of anything even close for Hamas.
It’s about as ridiculous as the hypothetical question of what would happen if Iran attacked Israel with nukes. They won’t and they can’t, because they don’t have any. Israel has plenty. So, this is stupid language to continue perpetrating. Nobody is in a position, (aside from the US) to undertake the destruction of Israel, even if Israel DID have defined borders, which is does not.
As for Obama remarking at all on Jimmy Carter’s visit there as a private citizen, and as a known diplomat who has often brokered agreements, Obama should have simply refrained from commenting on it at all!!

Then there’s this:

•  “Asked if he thought Israel was a “drag on America’s reputation overseas,” he said it was not. But, referring to tensions in the Middle East, he said: “What I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore does infect all of our foreign policy. The lack of resolution to this problem provides an excuse for anti-American militant jihadists to engage in inexcusable actions.”
I disagree and believe that Israel IS a drag on our reputation overseas, but it’s not the largest of my concerns, and I wouldn’t have expected him to answer any differently. At least he (Obama) DID make reference to the connection, even if he worded it more diplomatically, by calling it a wound, that DOES affect all of our foreign policy. Because we already KNOW that it provides a reason for militant actions.

He also said this:
•  “I think that the idea of a secure Jewish state is a fundamentally just idea, and a necessary idea, given not only world history but the active existence of anti-Semitism,” Mr. Obama said in the interview. “That does not mean that I would agree with every action of the state of Israel.”
And, I don’t have any ‘fundamental’ problems with this either. The much larger issue that is being avoided here, is that I’m sure that nobody is trying to deny the existence of a ‘secure Jewish state’ since that would be ludicrous. The state of Israel has existed for 60 years. The POINT is that Israel cannot and should not be ‘securing their existence’ by the genocide and long term acts of violence against the Palestinians, and there is NO denying that it’s what they continue to do!
And, THAT’S what Obama should have said, but of course then he might as well have kissed it all goodbye. In other words…YES, let Israel be a secure Jewish State, and let them also allow for the Palestinians to have a secure existence that doesn’t keep them in a lifetime prison.

By Rus7355, May 12 at 10:40 am #
(19 comments total)
Re: Re: Why Not Take a Stand Against
“And yes, if you travel the globe the most often heard complaint about Americans is what I indicated in my previous post. The complaint is that the American people (not the U.S. government or it’s policies There is a distinction there you missed.) tend to be self involved and know little about world events.”
Actually having lived abroad for more than 5 years: The thing I hear is the opposite; to wit, “Americans are okay but the American government is really bad (polite word); where have you been?
Your distinction misses the point.  It is precisely the point that Americans are ignorant of anything out side of the U.S.; that is the problem.  It is because of this provincialism/ignorance, Americans allow their government to implement the imperialist policies throughout the world and more specifically at this time in the Middle East.  It is precisely this ignorance (combined with a campaign of fear) that allows American citizens to accept the lies and to be propagandized, that allows this criminal government to continue its blatantly illegal policies abroad.  You state you do not want a war with Iran but equivocate when questioned about our jingoist rhetoric.  Make no mistake; Bush/Cheney beat the war drums and march toward Iran exactly as they did for the war in Iraq.  Fool me once, okay; damn me if it’s twice!

This goes hand in hand with Israel’s claim that Iran is arming the Palestinian militants.  (Take my house and land and kill my family and I’d be a militant too.)

http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/4886

•  “Regarding Iran’s support to Hamas and Hezbollah: I do know that the President of Iran, Ahmadi-Nejad, and the Supreme Leader, Ali Hoseini-Khamenei, have on several occasions voiced their strong and collective support for both Hamas and Hezbollah as “freedom fighters” and “Brothers of good will”. And in the last gathering of Arab nations Ahmadi-Nejad pressed attendees to do the same (that is a matter of public record, my friend).”

Yes, this is a matter of public record. My response is SO WHAT? In my own very extensive study of both these organizations, I find it very reasonable that they’ve been considered as ‘freedom fighters’ and “Brothers of good will’ and I can state unequivocally that MANY scholars and researchers of the 60-year old conflict in the Middle East have suggested the same. They are most CERTAINLY considered that by the population they serve. Specifically, Hezbollah has been the ONLY means for even the most basic of social services for that population: food, water, shelter, etc. In FACT..that was their original mission. 

So yeah, for as long as either of these groups have been around, and for as long as they’ve been subjected to the genocidal practices of Israel, they’ve been fighting for their independence, and to survive. No doubt there are MANY people who view Hamas and Hezbollah as ‘freedom fighters’ or “Brothers of good will.” For you to tell me that the Iranians have voiced the same is of little relevance to anyone (in the entire world) who has witnessed this 60 year old genocide of the Palestinian people. It’s like, so what else is new russ?

More importantly russ, how does THAT make the leap to Iran being ‘sponsors of terrorism’? There are a whole bunch of dots missing in your connections here, and that’s why I called you out on it.

•  “you appear unaware of the IAEA’s official position regarding the Iranian government not being “forthcoming”, and it’s “stalling” and the “misdirection” on the matter.

No russ, I’m NOT UNaware of anything the IAEA has published in respect to Iran’s Nuclear Program, and I’ve seen all of Iran’s paperwork as well. There is nothing in the Iran folder/dossier maintained by IAEA that claims any ‘official’ position. The most RECENT conclusions of the IAEA is that there is NO EVIDENCE that Iran is now, has been, or is likely to be in the process of developing nuclear weapons, and if there was an ‘official position’ THAT WOULD BE IT! The most recent NIE from the US intelligence sources says THE SAME! The ONLY thing that the IAEA cannot do, is to prove beyond all scientific certainty, that Iran NEVER WILL, because of something as simple as this..NO ONE CAN ‘PROVE’ A NEGATIVE! Period. If doesn’t exist, you can’t prove that it doesn’t exist.

So the best that the morons and terrorists in the White House can do, is to claim that Iran has the INTENT to do something in the future, even though they have absolutely NOTHING to base that on, aside from the fact that there was a period of time in the 70’s- 80’s when Iran did not submit the required declarations to the IAEA. Meantime, Israel’s been sitting on an ARSENAL of nukes for over 20 years, and have NEVER submitted to International monitoring, and won’t sign the NPT!

As for Iran’s history, I’m well aware of it, and further back than 30 years. So, maybe you need to check back further yourself, to when the CIA destabilized THAT democratically established government as well, by overthrowing Mossadeq, and installing the US puppet the Shah. Do you know why the US directed the CIA to overthrow that government? Well, same reason they destabilize MOST foreign governments…Mossadeq was planning to nationalize Iran’s OIL industry, which was of course at the time, under the control of the Brits and the US. That’s just ONE of the countries where the US has performed ‘regime change’ in the past 60 years.

Part 2 of 2

As for this….

•  “Let us forget for a minute that over the last thirty (30) years Iran has been designated a state sponsor of terrorism for its activities, very specifically in Lebanon, very specifically to Hezbollah, and remains subject to US and U.N. economic sanctions and export controls because of its continued involvement in terrorism and conventional weapons proliferation, and simply take Ahmadi-nejad and Khamenei at their word that they support these two groups.”

“DESIGNATED’ by WHOM? The US?!! Please. You can ‘designate’ me the same if you want, because of that fertilizer I keep in my garden shed, but that doesn’t make it so. And the US can’t ‘designate’ ANY other country as a ‘state sponsor of terrorism’ for their ‘activities’ as long as we still have troops stationed in 140 countries on the globe, and are routinely pitching bombs out of our mighty fleet and killing millions of innocent civilians!! As of now..CIVILLIANS in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and others that I probably haven’t heard about in the past few days, continue to die and be wounded by US bombs from overhead. Meantime, we’ve got 8 warships in the Persian Gulf, several of them sitting on Irans front porch. Please.

And no, I’ve yet to hear or read that Ahmadinejad or ANYONE ELSE in the Iranian regime has claimed to ‘support’ Hezbollah or Hamas, aside from calling them ‘freedom fighters’ and “Brothers of good will” and I’ve already explained exactly why they are viewed in that light. In case you missed it, Hamas was democratically elected by the Palestinian people, except of course that the US didn’t like their choice, so I guess they decided to just ‘designate’ them as a terrorist group.

The only reason for the sanctions on Iran are because the US keeps insisting that they’re developing nuclear WEAPONS, despite what the IAEA has said, and the IAEA isn’t ON the security council. The US holds the geopolitical power on the UN, (though not enough to get a resolution to attack Iraq, which is why they withdrew the request and just went ahead with an illegal invasion and occupation) so none of this surprises me of the past 8 years. We have terrorists running the show in the US, and we have all of the military might. As far as the US regime is concerned, might makes right. They’ll do what we tell them to do or we’ll just bomb the shit out of them. Isn’t that right, russ? Or, just ‘designate’ them as state sponsors of terrorism. I think I’ll just keep believing the ACTION that I see, rather than the ‘words’ that you want me to ‘take them at’ which amount to nothing more than the truth anyway, as I see it. You call ‘em terrorists, and I see them as freedom fighters. It’s all in the eyes of the beholders and the victims of the aggression.

I mean, this was all decided so long ago anyway, when the PNAC came up with their ‘clean break’ project to rule the ME and all of its resources. Then GW made it very clear in his SOU address, when he SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED the people of Iran, (like they were all huddled in front of their TV’s half-way around the world to hear the US President threaten them) with his ‘message to the Iranian people’ and his ‘designation’ of the “Evil Axis”. Yeah russ, that’s a real good way to bring about peace and harmony in the world.

As for Clinton, he did his own unauthorized unilateral attack on the former Yugoslavia, so I’m not all that interested in what he has to say about Iran. I don’t believe in American “exceptionalism’ from the rules that all others are expected to adhere.

It’s good to know some community leaders are speaking up against Bush’s latest war campaign. Of course, if our representatives had acted more responsibly before Bush’s unjustified invasion of Iraq, such resolutions would not be needed.

Well, it is one way to get around the horrible msm if it gets national recognition for all the people in america to see. But I doubt abc, nbc, cbs, msnbc, cnn, the newspapers, the radios or any of the lines of communication will carry this because all of this has been shut down for real information too long.
Scott Ritter for President!

And this is what the bush admin has always been about, to hell with anything else as long as they make their precious blood money,

These war pigs need to be tarred and feathered and driven out of our country along with the neocon sewer scum who support them

Folks, you can argue the details of this travesty   any way you want. Who said what, where, why…who didn’t say anything…which administation three decades ago did what to who, and why; how do we get out, yada yada yada. But sometimes, just sometimes, you have to set details aside and look at The Nature Of A Thing. At its core. We didn’t do that in time for Iraq (if we did I must have been sleeping), but we have time for Iran, Mr/Ms Rus7355, we have time. 

And the Nature of this thing is that we do not belong there. It isn’t ours—it’s theirs! WE DO NOT BELONG THERE! Period. Simply that. Got it?

Oh, we can buy their stuff, like oil, but we can’t take it—it’s theirs. We can do our best to pursuade them to change their politics or religion. But we can’t MAKE them—because it’s theirs.

The very concepts and rules of basic human behaviour learned in kintergarden still apply: LEAVE OTHER PEOPLE’S STUFF ALONE.

One would think that after 10,000 or so years of fairly decent historical human accounting (more than half that with detailed records) we would begin, even at the fringe, to learn what happens when one tribe crosses another tribe’s border and tries to TAKE THEIR STUFF.

“Oh, you’re being simple Tomack, it’s MUCH more complicated than that.” Really? Then ask yourself this simple question in response, What would have happened if the West had stayed out of the East altogether?  And I don’t refer to the Crusades, or conversely, the Moorish invasions going in the other direction (but that would have been nice, and no telling what peaceful madness that would have caused), I mean in modern times. Trade continues, relations good or bad continue, love em/hate em continues, everything continues except the part where we GO THERE with an army and try to TAKE THEIR STUFF.

The Nature of the thing is simple, we choose to complicate it. Mr. Ritter is right—don’t go there. Simply that.

Note to Billy the Dik: I sent this as well, and already got an e-mail response, the essence of it was Dear (my real name) we appreciate your concern but we feel it isn’t the responsibility of local government to apply pressure to federal govenment for any reason. They left out the part about kneeling before Bush & Gang. 

Hmmmm…I wonder if that was their attitude a few years ago after the big flood our area had. Well, it is a predominantly conservative county after all.

The troubling thing is, Bush, Cheney, Rice and all, think they know best and ignore public opinion, right or wrong.  Remember the “So?”

And our Congress and Justice lets the Administration keep weaving down the highway like a drunk driver without stopping them.

Billy
Here’s something you can add to your collection. (for your own city council). This is an excellent interview with Steven Kinzer. (the video of it is at the link below)

There are also a few dozen OTHER letters and resolutions that have been drafted during the past few years as well, similar to the project that Scott mentions here. (all on avoiding an attack on Iran). 

  Un-“threat”-ing Iran: An Interview With Stephen Kinzer
  By Maya Schenwar
  t r u t h o u t | Interview
Author Stephen Kinzer discusses the motivations behind the targeting of Iran, the emotional impulses that fuel American interventions around the world, and the strategy that may finally deliver the US from its “regime change” habit.

  Amid the foreboding language of the Petraeus/Crocker hearings, the Bush administration’s assessment of fighting in Basra and Baghdad, and some Congressional Democrats’ incendiary words - at a hearing last week, Congressman Gary Ackerman warned that “Iran’s nuclear cauldron continues to boil and bubble” - the specter of an Iranian threat to the US would seem to have grown to monstrous proportions over the past few weeks.

  However, according to Stephen Kinzer, bestselling author of “All the Shah’s Men” and “Overthrow: American Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq,” it’s the specter of a US threat to Iran which has really mounted as of late.

“Every