By Rus7355, June 26 at 6:01 pm #

“The conversation between Beck and myself has little to do with Israel. The conversation was in regards to a threat assessment of Iran. Not Israel”.

Maybe someone should do a threat assessment on Israel, it is their provocative banter which is increasing tensions in that region.  Iran wouldn’t be an issue if Israel would quit making daily war threats.

Who do you think is pushing the U.S. down this path to war? 

“I find your constant focus on Israel tedious and myopic in focus. That single minded bigotry is unhelpful”.

Unhelpful to whom?  Get use to it.

• “..In Lebanon we saw 182 American Marines blown up during a peace keeping mission. We saw the Khobar Towers blown up in Saudi Arabia. Each of those actions are internationally recognized acts of war.”

Wrong again Russ7777, because it was NOT a peacekeeping mission, and the US was on the sovereign territory of another state. Regardless of whether or not you’ll ever accept it Russ, state sovereignty is KEY to international law. It is THE HIGHEST priority in International relations between nation states. The US doesn’t own Lebanon, and the US doesn’t own Saudi Arabia, and the US doesn’t own Iraq or Afghanistan, no matter how much you wish that to be true.

The USS Cole was sabotaged/terrorized in 2000, as it was illegally docked at Yemen. Many sailors were killed and injured. One of the parents of one of the sailors sued the US Pentagon for wrongful death of her sailor son, and she won the case.

She won because Yemen was NOT on the plan for the USS Cole, not even for a pass -thru, let along an extended stay. Let me repeat. There are international laws that all nations are expected to abide. When ANY country encroaches upon the sovereign soil/territory of another nation state; THAT is an act of war.

It is a breach of the Geneva Conventions, unless the encroaching state has obtained a resolution from the UN Security Council. Understand that Russ, because it isn’t going to change. It’s based on customary law, and it’s been codified.

The attack on the embassy in Iran is an exception, because in legal terms, that building…the Embassy, is actually US sovereign territory. So, that would obviously be taken into the proper context, if it were ever to be addressed in an international court. But, I think the Iranians made it clear that they didn’t want the US interfering in their affairs any longer, and they had much to be annoyed about, after the CIA overthrew the democratically elected and very popular president Mossadegh, in 1954. As you should well know, that was because Mossadegh was in the process of nationalizing that country’s oil industry, which would have left the Brits out of the action. This is the standard procedure for US take-overs of the past half-century, (in some cases longer) and at some point in time, ALL members of the US population WILL become as educated about these events as are the members of the nations that have been subjected to these take-overs.

Patrick Henry,

Thanks for your post #165661. I too appreciated the response from Beck, and yours as well.

Something has slowly ‘dawned’ on me in the past several weeks, in reference to Russ7whatever. My guess, (and admittedly, that’s all it is) is that Russ is a member of one of the many subversive groups who are violently opposed to the current Iranian regime, and are willing to assist in the destruction of that nation state, if that’s what is required to overthrow that regime.

The current US regime has long since organized these various groups of ‘dissidents’ both here and inside Iran. The US is ALSO using al-Qaeda to launch aggressions against the Iranians as well.

The worst of it is that our money is funding these operations as well, and an additional ‘guess’ is that Russ whomever, is a recipient of such funds, and highly likely is paid to post anti-Iranian propaganda on these and other blogs.

Needless to say, it is the epitome of perfidy and treason, (if he were an Iranian himself, and I don’t know that he is…there are many US operatives involved, beyond just the CIA, which is pretty standard). But, that will hopefully explain the nature of his obnoxious posts. There IS a reason. He has a job to do, as a subversive troll operative.

Just a couple of links that might provide some background.

http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2007/060407Anti- Iranian.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/feb/16/usnews.ira n/print

PatrickHenry.

The conversation between Beck and myself has little to do with Israel. The conversation was in regards to a threat assessment of Iran. Not Israel.

I find your constant focus on Israel tedious and myopic in focus. That single minded bigotry is unhelpful.

By Beck, June 26 at 7:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Very true, good post.

By Rus7355, June 26 at 11:54 am #

Your obviously with the Israel first crowd.  If Israel makes a first strike against Iran, they deserve the losses they get, if the U.S. intervenes, I hope open revolution against the U.S. government begins as unpopular this act of war would be.

The Israel-Arab conflicts in the middleast have bled the United States financially for decades, the cost of waging war on the other side of the world for really no reason and my government borrowing the money to do it. 

Cut off all AID to Israel and withdraw all our troops from Iraq and Afganistan and gas would plummet.  More pressing matters here in America.

Beck,

With all due respect I think you make the mistake in thinking war is only a border crossing or land incursion. While the Iranian people are some of the most hospitable on earth the current Iranian government is made up of some of the most aggressive in the world. And it is Iran that claims it’s goals of hegemony over the region. That is not my opinion. It’s Iran’s own stated goal.

In Lebanon we saw 182 American Marines blown up during a peace keeping mission. We saw the Khobar Towers blown up in Saudi Arabia. Each of those actions are internationally recognized acts of war. Those are just a few highly publicized examples of aggression. The list goes on. And we shouldn’t forget American hostages once held in Iran for 444 days.

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the UAE have all publicly stated that Iran is to be considered a threat to their security. France, Germany, Britain, Australia, Austria and Turkey have all banded together against Iran. I believe Iran has proven to be a threat to international stability and security.

You ask what I think should be done in order to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.  I think all options, militarily, economically and diplomatic should remain on the table. The international pressure already in play should continue with all vigor.

I do not believe Iran should be invaded, however, if Iran is found to be close to obtaining nuclear weapons military force, less invasion, should be employed without pause.

Nabih,

AGAIN...my thanks to you for your continuing gifts of knowledge. That is how I receive every post from you; as a gift of knowledge/information that I would not otherwise have known, or had to the proper tools with which to research or discover on my own.

Indeed, I’ve ALWAYS known that none of the rhetoric of Ahmadinejad, (or any other of the previous and current leaders in the Middle East) was ever intended as Israel and the West have chosen to interpret it, bastardizing it in the process. And then, they use it to create an entirely contrary image (to the rest of the world)of what the reality actually is.

It is from this that comes (I think) the ‘myth’ that Iranian and other leaders speak of in reference to the Holocaust. In so far as any ‘connection’ to the Middle East and the genocides that have occured THERE, it IS a myth.

Anyway, thanks again. I don’t speak or understand Arabic (or Persian) at even the most basic of levels, and I’ve admitted being ‘scared off’ from undertaking any study of it, just because I’ve been forewarned that it is a very difficult language to learn, and that it does require full attention. (like, I probably couldn’t study much else at the same time). Still, I’m very anxious to understand the CORRECT interpretation of whatever pretains to the on-going struggle for self-determination for SO MUCH of the Arab and other Islamic peoples of the world, and specifically in the Middle East. To do that requires some knowledge of the language, or at least a professional helper who can interpret it for us.

So, I’ve saved this to my collection of much have information. Thanks again.

cyrena

It’s easy to say that because I don’t agree with you that I must be using distractions, obfuscation’s and/or lying. But if you look at your above ramble you’ll see that you would not be able to explain why Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, Germany, Australia and Briton have all expressed great concern regarding the possibility of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons.

Merely pretending every surrounding neighbor to Iran is not voicing their concerns is notably unhelpful.

Please try to explain why you failed to mention the numerous nations around the world that have very publicly voiced their concerns about Iran if it’s simply the United States and Israel pretending Iran to be a threat.

I have asked this question here numerous times and nobody has even an attempted an answer. Is it simply that to do so (attempt an answer) the logic in your argument would crumble? Or is it easier to pretend it all away?

Dr mamoud ahmadi nejad?

best

http://www.prosefights.org/thecanadian/thecanadian.htm

Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.

cheers

http://www.prosefights.org/bakhtiardead/bakhtiardead.htm

“Yes, it’s a common myth to suggest Ahmadinejad was misquoted or taken out of context. But why ignore the context of my post”

The context of your post is a false arguement.

http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/

Alot of Americans are getting tired of the War hype generated by the Zionist Jew media and oracles such as you Rus7355. 

Iran poses less of a threat to America’s security than Israel does.

PartickHenry

When one uses parentheses it denotes the writer, not the quoted, injected a comment.

You may wish to consider why you have seen Ahmadinejad quoted so many times as saying “Israel wiped off the map”.

Yes, it’s a common myth to suggest Ahmadinejad was misquoted or taken out of context. But why ignore the context of my post?

The context was Ahmadinejad quoted, correctly I may add, as saying Israel’s “60th anniversary celebrations are an attempt to prevent its annihilation.” Or “Nations of the region hate this criminal fabricated regime (Israel) and will uproot this fabricated regime if the smallest and shortest opportunity is given to them”

Does it not seem as though Ahmadinejad is calling for, and wishes for, Israel to be “uproot(ed)” and again talked in terms of “annihilation”?

But you you still maintain the President of Iran has been misquoted in 2005?

If you haven’t done it already go back and read Ahmadinejad’s 2005 speech yourself. Not simply what has been reported on some Web site or some media sources. He made himself very clear.

Zionist regime or Israel which is the quote?

I love how the media and the parrots of media (you) switch words around and misinterpret the farsi spoken to make it the most evil.

“Israel wiped off the map”, this phrase has been so mis-quoted it takes on a whole new meaning than what was actually said.  I just heard McCain this morning parroting it again, even though it is incorrect.

Ahmadinejad is right, we need a entirely new less militant and provocative government in Israel as we do in the U.S.

Ahmadinejad: Israel Is Doomed

Wednesday, May 14, 2008

AP

TEHRAN, Iran —
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Wednesday that Israel is dying and that its 60th anniversary celebrations are an attempt to prevent its “annihilation.”

“The Zionist (Israeli) regime is dying,” said Ahmadinejad during a speech in northern Iran. “The criminals assume that by holding celebrations ... they can save the sinister Zionist regime from death and annihilation.”

Ahmadinejad used an Arabic word, ismihlal, that can also be translated as destruction, death and collapse.

Iran doesn’t recognize Israel, and Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for Israel’s destruction. Threatening exchanges between Iran and Israel have intensified since 2005, when Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Israel will one day be “wiped off the map.” The Iranian leader has also described the Holocaust as a “myth.”

“Nations of the region hate this criminal fabricated regime (Israel) and will uproot this fabricated regime if the smallest and shortest opportunity is given to them,” Ahmadinejad said Wednesday in an address broadcast live on state television.

You’re right of course Johnathon, but there IS a reason for it, having nothing to do with Iran and nukes of course. It was part of the plan all along. And then too, as Louise mentioned a while back, they’ve got all of these new war toys they’re anxious to play with.

There was a piece I read earlier today, (though I can’t find it right now) with Gates saying pretty much the same thing. He wants them to use all of the new equipment NOW. (he didn’t specifically say to use it on Iran, but the plans are all in the works, and have been for a long time).

Meantime, I don’t think the letter from Conyers is ‘pointless’ but rather a reminder of the way the Constitution is set up, which is of course to remind that it is only CONGRESS that can declare war. Now of course you’re right that stuff like the Constitution doesn’t stop this regime from doing whatever they’ve planned or want to do, but it’s still not a bad idea to educate or re-aquaint the public (that’s us) with the basic concepts of that blueprint for our government that we call a democracy. And, that is that the executive branch can’t just decide to wage a war on Iran without an approval from the Congress.

In reality, the wording of the original ‘permission’ that Congress gave for Iraq, could be taken as continuing ‘permission’ to bomb anybody that Dick Bush wants to claim is involved in ‘terrorism’ and of course he ‘decides’ that.

So, in that respect, the notice from Conyers may not do any good, but I hate to call it pointless, since after more than 7 years, it’s about time for there to be some opposition to the destruction of the Constitution by the fascists in charge.

It isn’t really a resolution though, (at least not if you’re talking about the same thing that I think you are). As far as I know, the fascists aren’t planning to request a resolution from the UN. They didn’t get one to invade Iraq, so I doubt they’d even consider such an effort for Iran. Beides, there’s no time. They have to be into this before Dick Bush leaves office.

Non Credo,

I ditto Evillive.

So, I guess I won’t say it again. Well, maybe I could add that the US (and any other nation states obligated to the NPT) are supposed to ASSIST the non-nuclear states in the developement of this technology that can be used for useful civilian purposes.

That’s quite the opposite of threatening to destroy them for attempting to acquire it.

The tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots from time to time....

I must acknowledge that Conyers has disappointed before. Can’t deny it. And, I’m not certain of all the reasons. But, I’m willing to pay attention to this latest effort, if for no other reason than the fact that it IS one.

Bubb

I never wrote that Iran has nuclear weapons.

Yes, Iraq is quieting down considerably in relation to the past two years. Overall death count, overall sectarian violence and more legislation is being passed.

Sunni and Shia are now fighting against Al Qaeda types. Quite a change.

We’re going to ask retired FBI agent Wayne R Gilbert for suggestions

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/fbifoia/fbifoia.htm #towayne

Dear President Carter:

An unfortunate situation resulting from your administration’s decision by apparently Zibigniew Brzezinski to incite Saddam Hussein to attack Iran in 1980 requires your immediate help to try to resolve peacefully. ..

http://www.prosefights.org/nmlegal/nsalawsuit/nsalawsu it.htm#carter

Ex

I noted that you too failed to make a single reasonable argument.

Did you happen to take note of how wrong you were about it being only the U.S. and Israel that is concerned about Iran? How the French President stated very clearly his concerns?

If you do a two minute Google search you’ll find the same concerns from Germany, Britan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, India and several others.

How did you come to believe it’s only the U.S. and Israel concerned about Iran? Nothing could be further from the truth.

There is a much deeper context to the Iran-Libya Sanction Act apart from what you read on Counterpunch.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1996_cr/h960618b.htm

The fear is yours evilive.

The fear you have of my ability to actually put forth a reasoned argument, and pose some real questions, seems to truly make you tremble.

I noted you were unable to make a single reasoned argument so you, as an act of TRUE and PURE cowardice, picked up the stick.

Feel better now?

Oh stop. It’s becoming tiresome. Make a reasoned argument or move on.

Please, evilive, stop stomping your feet like a petulant child. Stop attacking people simply because they do not think like or agree with you.

I hold a differnt point of view. So make your reasoned point and stop trying to belittle all who do not see things your way. Your point gets lost when you do that.

What, please explain, is this blinding hatred you all feel toward Israel? Is it not true that hatred blinds the mind?

So the evil of a free and open Israel, with free elections -whereas Arabs have an equal vote- the right to practice their religion, the rule of law, individual rights of property trumps that of Hamas? A group that allows no decent, who have members who do not believe in the education of woman, who’s very charter calls for the destruction of an entire nation of humans? You honestly support the destruction of Israel with your tacit approval of Hamas?

What is this terrible hatred of Israel you hold? How are you so able and willing to ignore the equal injustices from both sides and put all your focus on only one? I ask this in the most sincere fashion. I simply do not understand.

I support the Palestinians and their right to exist. I support their right of free expression and self governance. But you seem to deny the same for Israel. I just can’t seem to wrap my mind around this hatred you hold for an entire nation of humans.

I am not Jewish. And I hold no real hatred for anyone. So tell me, honestly, and I mean no disrespect, do you consider yourself an anti-Semite? Do you honestly believe the injustices come from only one side? And how would you personally feel if you were surrounded by enemies on all sides calling for your total destruction?

Once again, Cyrena, you illustrate my point so very well. It seems I can always count on you to back me up....LOL

Why not think for a brief time before you post. I am a “troll” (which, it seems, you don’t understand the actual meaning) and an agitator because I dare to simply disagree with YOU? You have zero tolerance for anyone who may have a well reasoned thought unlike your own? Does that not fit the very definition of a closed minded bigot, hate monger and war monger? You tell me. Look up the word bigot and get back to us on how “open minded” you are.  Better yet let me help you out.

Bigot: “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion”.

Yes, I’m sure you’ve seen my type before. We think for ourselves. We don’t hide in a dark little place surrounded with only like minded people. Scary, isn’t it?

Ask yourself; why do you fear me so very much? You appear steeped by fear and hatred of anything unlike yourself.

--
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.  - Dr. Seuss

Some here on TruthDig — fearful of offending non-Westerners — have almost become more like old-time conservatives in their “live and let live” politics and neo-isolationism.

In contrast, some would say conservatives, have gradually drifted away from their past realpolitik and easy détente with illiberal regimes.

Such an about-face did not start with George Bush and his now maligned and mythical neo-con advisers. It was evident earlier with Ronald Reagan. He rejected détente with the Soviet Union and instead championed religious and political dissidents, calling for the end of, not tolerance of, the tyranny of the Soviet “evil empire.”

Your postings, on the other hand, seem to have embraced multiculturalism often in guilt and as a reaction against past purported Western chauvinism. We are not supposed to judge different foreign cultures by imposing our own arbitrary standards of morality.

But the end result of multiculturalism in the real world is an insidious relativism. So you all turn a blind eye to Hamas’ street executions. Israel, a free democracy, with a firm rule of law, individual rights and property, churns your ire.

Some fail to believe in universal absolutes: Some things like authoritarianism are always worse; others like freedom are always better, regardless of cultural differences.

At home in a freewheeling, affluent society, such rigid consistency may seem reactionary, unimaginative and unrealistic. But, abroad, it can translate into something different. Some people in the West, unlike yourselves, have supported such troublemaking champions of individual rights as former Soviet dissident Natan Sharansky or the Somali-born former Dutch legislator Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Finally, there is the matter of tactics. Some of you here believe more in universal redemption through nonviolence -although Hamas, Hezbollah and Ahmadinejad make it clear they play by much different rules. Evil is not so much innate as it is a result of poverty, prejudice or some sort of perceived oppression - you incorrectly believe from the U.S.. Its antidote then should be education, understanding, dialogue and diplomacy. So don’t give up on an Assad, demonize Islamists or isolate Hamas. Thank God you are a small minority

Most people, like myself, are more likely to believe evil is elemental, so combating and isolating it is the necessary first step in protecting the weaker from harm. Not by protecting and “understanding” the tyrant.

Who, then, condemns religious fanaticism, terrorists and their illiberal state supporters in the Middle East? Not necessarily, as we would expect, contemporary liberals. Instead, they now more often rail about the Patriot Act at home than the jailing or killing of innocents in places like Iran, Damascus and Gaza.

Bye, bye and don’t keep in touch.

You’re full of it russ, and we’ve seen your types before. It’s hardly about somebody ‘stepping into a room’ that is ‘unlike’ we are.

We’ve had tons of trolls and agitators on this site, who can’t get any attention from people in their own literal lives, so they have to resort to being a pain in the ass on forums such as this.

Matter of fact, your language and context are almost verbatim to others that have attempted the same thing. So, don’t flatter yourself that you are any ‘different’ than any of the other trolls that hang around, and don’t count on ‘coaxing anybody out’ since that’s just code for baiting people with all of your stupid stuff.

And, it IS stupid, and so are you, just because you have no clue to how transparent you are.

Cyrena,

You consider Hamas and Hezbollah “freedom fighters”.

But unlike yourself, Egyptian reformer Sa’d Al-Din Ibrahim — no friend of the United States — thinks members of Hamas are real criminals.

In an article on the terrorist organization’s takeover of Gaza, Ibrahim wrote, “The Hamas fighters behaved in a barbaric, bloody manner, while repeatedly (shouting) ‘Allahu Akbar’ and religious prayers. . . . The victors executed a number of Fatah leaders and fighters, shooting them or throwing them from the roofs of buildings, with no trial — not even a mock trial.”

You are one among many Western liberals who either ignore or, worse, defend Hamas and other acknowledged enemies of free speech, due process and religious and political tolerance. You failed to mention this after your “extensive study of both these organizations”.

Is it not at least interesting that you willfully leave these parts out of your posts? Is it possible that by merely mentioning those barbaric acts your argument would crumble?

Think before you write. Have the courage to present a larger context. Not only the parts that suite your own point of view.

LOL.....In other words; when someone steps into the room who may be different than yourselves it frightens you all. You pick up rocks and sticks in your defense, not your actual thought processes, so that you can feel secure. You feel better surrounding yourselves with only the like minded, shunning everyone else, so you can feel better about yourselves. You can pat each other on the back about how smart you feel. And by never feeling challenged you can remain where you are and never really venture out of your little rooms? That’s your best argument? .......LOL

I’ll keep posting and, perhaps, coax you out a little. Maybe shed some light on the darkness of hatred of others unlike yourselves.

I’ve copied this from the Truthout site to share on this thread, since it couldn’t be more appropriate.

I’m sharing with my local organizations as well, including those that have been committed to the impeachment of Richard B. Cheney. (nope, we haven’t given up). The full letter is contained at the link.

~Editor’s Note: Although this document, authored by House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, Jr., contains a direct appeal for political action
we feel it is nonetheless striking. It is news unto itself. As such we offer it as news. ma/TO~

From: The office of House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers, Jr.
May 8, 2008

Join Me in Calling on President Bush to Respect Congress’ Exclusive Power to
Declare War

Dear Democratic Colleague:

As we mark five years of war in Iraq, I have become increasingly concerned that the President may possibly take unilateral, preemptive military action against Iran. During the last seven years, the Bush Administration has exercised unprecedented assertions of Executive Branch power and shown an unparalleled aversion to the checks and balances put in place by the Constitution’s framers. The letter that follows asks President Bush to seek congressional authorization before launching any possible military strike against Iran and affirms Senator Biden’s statement last year that impeachment proceedings should be considered if the President fails to do so.

I hope that you will join me in calling on the President to respect Congress’
exclusive power to declare war. To sign the letter below, please contact the Judiciary Committee staff at 225-3951.

Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
Chairman

The letter and all appropriate citations is at the link below.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051308A.shtml

Johanna,

The people in Iran are still friendly, knowledgable and courteous. That hasn’t changed.

I wasn’t around at the time of Mossadeq’s overthrow, but I’ve read much about it, and it makes ME cry. The Iranians loved him, and had he NOT been overthrown by the CIA/US we can assure that Iran would have a totally different regime. The Theocratic regime was only a reaction to that, and that’s exactly what happens in a coup of any sort.

The horrible reality is that the US has done this in so many nations. Someone else mentioned here that Ahmadinejad would never have been elected if Bush hadn’t decided to tell the Iranian people that they were part of an “Axis of Evil”. I might not have understood what they meant say 5 or 6 years ago, because I didn’t know that much about the politics of Iran at that time in their history.

But, it makes all the sense in the world, if we simply consider the political mindset of ANY group of people anywhere. (except maybe the US under a fascist regime as we have now.)

The reaction to such threats from a ‘superpower’ would be to elect a conservative person who can sprout just as much bullshit as our own regime, and someone who appears to take a hard line, because of the hard, intolerant bullying that has come from the bullier. (GW Bush).

And, because GW is so totally stupid in his arrogance, neither he or any of his so-called advisors or puppet masters seem capable of acknowledging common logic. If you attack somebody, they are likely to bite back, even if it’s only in the form of rhetoric.

So, the Iranians elected Ahmadinejad as their spokesperson. He is certainly NOT the only voice that speaks from the Iranian regime, but I don’t find him any more bellicose than what we have here, in the form of Dick Bush, and he’s considerably more intelligent than either of them.

Well said Evillive…

He probably doesn’t even know it. Then again, we can’t be sure. We’ve experienced the occassional trolls on this forum before. Still, your assessment is right on spot.

I always wonder about folks who are so indoctrinated, because as far as standards go, we can actually understand how that is. The propaganda is old, and it’s what most of us have been socialized to, at least the last few generations. So, we expect it from those who’ve been exposed to little else, and that includes the ‘educated’ among us. (because the so-called ‘education’ has been propagandized as well).

For as long as I’ve been around, the world has known of the horrors of the Jewish/European Holocaust. Or maybe not the entire world, but surely it’s been etched in every book that enters the educational system here in the US.

And YET, during my own elementary education, and even into the secondary portion of it, there was never even a whimper of the Native American Holocaust or genocide, which involved far, far, far more human beings, and actually the wipe out of an entire civilization, (because of course it wasn’t considered by the invaders to even BE a civilization).

And, I never learned anything about the millions of Africans taken on behalf of the slave trade either.

Sad as it is to say, this ignorance continues, even now, and even among so-called ‘educated’ people.

Meatime, you’re right. REALITY really IS the only HOPE! I like that.

Thanks!

The name calling and attempts to belittle anyone who disagrees here is just appalling. And you people believe you are the open minded of the world? The enlightened and educated? The nonjudgmental and compassionate? The all inclusive? WOW!

It’s little wonder I rarely see a dissenting opinion in these posts. Some of you people are not interested in anything unlike yourselves.

I am truly amazed and appalled by some people on this “progressive” outlet. This is how you treat people with whom you disagree?

Again, WOW!

Thanks for posting this interview with Morris Motamed. I was aware that he was the only Jewish minister in the Iranian parliament, but I’d never come across any opportunities to hear from him.

Thanks again.

Cyrena

“Get lost Russ”.

Thank you for once again illustrating my point so very well. You are nothing but mean, narrow minded and simply can’t stand to here another point of view.

Your hate and ugliness toward anyone unlike yourself saddens me. I truly feel heartfelt sorrow for you.

Good points.

I doubt the current president of iran would have won office if the US president had not labelled Iran as part of an “axis of evil”

the US and Iranian presidents feed on each others bellicosity

the staffs of the Iranian and American presidents are apparently filled with policy flame-throwers who are not themselves in harms way when bombs are set off, otherwise they’d think harder about imposing such violence on everyone else

Iranians have Ahmadinejad, we have Bush.  Which one is the biggest purveyor of death?

It’s the selfish embargoes America forces with its so called allies, upon Iran which cause the dispair in that country, at the behest of Israel, I might add.

At what time in our history was it mandated that the U.S. can screw with any country it wants to? and for which no good reasons.

We have no business meddling in the Iranians affairs period.

Absolutely Cyrena.

You know Obama had to pass the “smell test” lest all the editors from the major news mags descend upon him at the early stage of his candidacy. 

Its still not over and he will come under increasing scrutiny of the zionist press, who will mis-report, lie and sensationalize minor gaffs 24/7.

Once he is in office, I pray he cleans house of these vermin.

Yes, Expat, I see where you have come to believe it’s only the U.S. and Israel who think Iran a threat.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy

“An Iran with nuclear arms is, to me, unacceptable, and I am weighing my words…And I underline France’s full determination to support the alliance’s current policy of increasing sanctions, but also to remain open if Iran makes the choice to fulfill its obligations. This policy is the only one that will allow us to escape an alternative, which I consider to be catastrophic. Which alternative? An Iranian bomb or the bombing of Iran”.

Note especially the French president’s reference to “us” and the logic of his syllogism: Iran can’t and won’t have the bomb; one catastrophic remedy is bombing; therefore someone must increase sanctions or someone will bomb Iran, as the least bad of two awful alternatives.

Within the same week the French Foreign Minister released a statement preparing the French public for the possibilty of a war with Iran.

Mohamed Ahmadinejad is still ranting, but with more a sense of false braggadocio than ever: “Iran will inherit the mantel of Middle East hegemony”; “America is running from Iraq”

I can see why you have come to believe “American hegemony over the Middle East is real and presents an ever present danger to the stability of the entire Middle East and thus the world”

It’s not the self professed Iranian hegemony that stiffens your spine. The French President didn’t speak of his concerns of Iranian nuclear weapons. The French Foreign didn’t prepare his people for a conflict with Iran. The U.S. stands alone in it’s phony concerns because it is evil.

The British haven’t warned the world about Iran. Nor have the Germans, Australians, Saudi’s, Egyptians or India.

I stand corrected.

^ all any one is asking, is for Israel and America to treat all humans humanely.  6 million Jews? that was 60+ years ago.  Israel is engaged in targeted killings!  Extrajudicial killings.  Because of Israel’s precedent we are now engaged in the same practices as the Nazis.  Oh, how far we have progressed.  You idiot, this is not death to America, this is about justice in the world.  When dialogue fails, war begins.  Is this what we really want?  Is this the future of the world?  Is this what you want Rus7355?  I would suggest that you need to think far beyond your narrow vision and decide what future you really want.  My vision is for greater things than we imagine now.

Here’s where you’re confused russ.

“...America does not deserve to speak forcefully in return. It does not deserve to speak and act in it’s own defense. ..”

AMERICA -MY COUNTRY- can and always SHOULD act in AMERICA’S own defense. AMERICA, again...MY COUNTRY, has an obligation to do exactly that for America’s citizens.

YOU seem to believe that Israel and America, are one and the same. THEY ARE NOT.

So, stop confusing the defense of Israel, (which hardly needs ‘defending’ since Israel is the one with the weapons and the agression) with the defense of America.

Again...they are NOT the same. I’m not Jewish, and I would never be welcome in Israel. Consequently, I will not accept my loved ones dying on behalf of Israel, and I’m sick of my tax dollars going to Israel, to support their agression against another group of people.

NOBODY is ‘denying’ that 6 million Jews were killed in a Holocaust. WE ARE saying that the Palestinians DIDN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT!

And, that is ALL that Iran’s regime has ever meant either. So when you get around to explaining how or why 6 million Jews dying in Europe has to be paid for with the blood of as many Arabs in the Middle East, then maybe you’ll envision the lunacy of your entire argument.

Then again, probably not. I don’t know a single solitary Zionist raving maniac like you, who will ever acknowledge how perverted that is.

Get lost russ…

I stand corrected on my lack of complete information on Obama’s comments on Israel…Just read this from the NYT From Obama.

• “I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and his decision to meet with Hamas,” Mr. Obama said last month in a speech to Jewish leaders in Philadelphia. “We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel’s destruction.”

Ok, I personally have a ‘fundamental difference’ with Sen. Obama on this, specifically the wording, and it is THIS wording…

“A terrorist group intent on Israel’s destruction”
First, I don’t consider Hamas a ‘terrorist group’. Rather, they are a group that formed as a result of the Occupation of Palestinian lands, and the failure of Israel to ever abide by any of the dozen or more resolutions and other agreements as negotiated.
I’m also tired of hearing the rhetoric about them being ‘intent on Israel’s destruction’. That is old stuff, and it’s no different OR worse than the rhetoric that comes from the US or anybody else. It’s definitely WORDS, which have absolutely no possibility of becoming reality in the face of what is obviously Israel’s mighty war machine, and the non-existence of anything even close for Hamas.
It’s about as ridiculous as the hypothetical question of what would happen if Iran attacked Israel with nukes. They won’t and they can’t, because they don’t have any. Israel has plenty. So, this is stupid language to continue perpetrating. Nobody is in a position, (aside from the US) to undertake the destruction of Israel, even if Israel DID have defined borders, which is does not.
As for Obama remarking at all on Jimmy Carter’s visit there as a private citizen, and as a known diplomat who has often brokered agreements, Obama should have simply refrained from commenting on it at all!!

Then there’s this:

• “Asked if he thought Israel was a “drag on America’s reputation overseas,” he said it was not. But, referring to tensions in the Middle East, he said: “What I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore does infect all of our foreign policy. The lack of resolution to this problem provides an excuse for anti-American militant jihadists to engage in inexcusable actions.”
I disagree and believe that Israel IS a drag on our reputation overseas, but it’s not the largest of my concerns, and I wouldn’t have expected him to answer any differently. At least he (Obama) DID make reference to the connection, even if he worded it more diplomatically, by calling it a wound, that DOES affect all of our foreign policy. Because we already KNOW that it provides a reason for militant actions.

He also said this:
• “I think that the idea of a secure Jewish state is a fundamentally just idea, and a necessary idea, given not only world history but the active existence of anti-Semitism,” Mr. Obama said in the interview. “That does not mean that I would agree with every action of the state of Israel.”
And, I don’t have any ‘fundamental’ problems with this either. The much larger issue that is being avoided here, is that I’m sure that nobody is trying to deny the existence of a ‘secure Jewish state’ since that would be ludicrous. The state of Israel has existed for 60 years. The POINT is that Israel cannot and should not be ‘securing their existence’ by the genocide and long term acts of violence against the Palestinians, and there is NO denying that it’s what they continue to do!
And, THAT’S what Obama should have said, but of course then he might as well have kissed it all goodbye. In other words…YES, let Israel be a secure Jewish State, and let them also allow for the Palestinians to have a secure existence that doesn’t keep them in a lifetime prison.

Cyrena and Credo,

I understand your views. I understand that anyone who criticizes Israel and the U.S., anyone who openly calls for the destruction of the U.S. and Israel, who threaten war and killing against the U.S., who openly revel in the deaths of the children of Americans, who blow up school buses and market places indiscriminately, who deny, out of pure hatred, that 6 million Jews were slaughtered like animals, who refer to Israel as “a stinking corpse facing annihilation”, anyone who may openly display a disgust for democracy and chants “Death to America”, and, these “Freedom Fighters”, who will openly state that they will “never live along side the pigs of the United States”, who’s very charter makes clear it’s goal to destroy an entire nation of humans is worthy of your willing and full support.

You have made it clear there is only one way to look upon these events. America does not deserve to speak forcefully in return. It does not deserve to speak and act in it’s own defense. Israel should lie down and die before it’s enemies on all sides attacks for the fourth time. One word of harshness in return from the U.S. or Israel disgusts you both.

You hate war and killing. You hate drum beating. You hate blood for oil. You hate innocent people being killed. Unless, of course, it’s against Israel and the U.S.  It is then defensible.

You can be very proud. You have both made yourselves perfectly clear.

^ you from?  Your overly expansive views of American support from France and Germany are certainly wrong.  The only countries feigning “terror” of Iran are America and Israel and that is at best laughable!  This “terror” is as phony as a 3 dollar bill.  American hegemony over the Middle East is real and presents an ever present danger to the stability of the entire Middle East and thus the world.  You are a neo-con in sheep’s clothing; but then I digress into name calling; shame on me.  So I’ll just say; you are dead wrong and dangerous in your thinking or lack there of!

With Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s election as president of Iran in August 2005, the United States was given a public relations bonanza. We no longer had to warn the world that the largely silent mullahs in Iran were unstable and dangerous. Loud-mouthed Ahmadi-Nejad did all that and more for us.

When he bragged that a mesmerized U.N. audience couldn’t blink when he spoke, or that Israel should disappear from the map, the rest of the world on its own concluded that he was either outright crazy or scary — or both.

There are now pro-American governments in France and Germany. Both have made it clear publicly that they are terrified about Iran. That’s understandable since both — unlike us — could soon very well be in range of Iran’s newest North Korean-made missiles.

Meanwhile, Iran’s other interests in the Middle East have taken a hit. Hezbollah is still clearing out the mess from the 2006 Lebanon war; that will cost its Iranian patron billions in war reconst