After making the point about the oil companies pocketing the gas tax cut, here is what Paul Krugman also wrote:

“The Clinton twist [on McCain’s proposal] is that she proposes paying for the revenue loss with an excess profits tax on oil companies. In one pocket, out the other. So it’s pointless, not evil. But it is pointless, and disappointing.”

And remember that the gas tax pays to rebuild America’s crumbling infrastructure (bridges that are collapsing and so forth).

Excerpts from yesterday’s (5/6/08) Deb Cupples post at Buck Naked Politics

BEGIN QUOTE
“These days, Barack Obama seems willing to say just about anything—no matter how evidently untrue— just to disagree with Hillary Clinton

[…..]

John McCain was the first to propose a gas-tax holiday for this summer.  His idea ……. would end up harming us consumers and taxpayers

[Hillary] proposed a different gas-tax holiday—one combined with a tax on oil companies’ profits, which would cause oil companies to pay for some of the gas-price reduction.

Note that Obama, as an Illinois legislator, had helped pass a gas-tax holiday (similar to McCain’s current plan) for his state in 2000.  Knowing that Hillary had just come up with a plan that’s better than the plan Obama had supported eight years ago in Illinois, Obama should have jumped at the chance to unify with Hillary—as a Democrat—on this one issue.

How did Obama actually respond to Hillary’s plan?  He said that it wouldn’t work.  He claimed to know this from experience: that is, he trumpeted far and wide that his own Illinois gas-tax holiday had failed to lower gas prices.

Today, I found a May 2006 report from the National Bureau of Economic Research which states that the Illinois gas-tax holiday did work. http://www.nber.org/tmp/65433-w12266.pdf

Here’s a bit from the report’s abstract:

“This paper considers the suspension, and subsequent reinstatement, of the 5% gasoline sales tax in Illinois and Indiana following a temporary price spike in the spring of 2000…. Using a unique dataset of daily, gas station-level data, retail gas prices are found to drop by 3% following the suspension, and increase by 4% following the reinstatements.”

[…….]

Obama, himself, has publicly acknowledged that Hillary’s proposal would likely have a positive short-term effect, just not a huge one:
‘I’m here to tell you the truth,’ Sen. Obama says in a new 60-second ad running in North Carolina and Indiana ahead of Tuesday’s primaries. ‘You’re going to save about $25, $30, or half a tank of gas.’ (MSNBC).

In short, Obama not only made statements that clash with evidence from the NBER’s study, but he also flat out contradicted himself.

It gets worse: a new Obama campaign ad falsely uses liberal economist Paul Krugman’s words against Hillary.  In an April 28 column, Krugman wrote that McCain’s tax-holiday proposal “would boost oil industry profits.”

Krugman doesn’t like Hillary’s proposal, but he regards it as harmless and acknowledges that her plan is different from McCain’s.

Facts aside, the Obama campaign crafted a TV ad implying that an expert (i.e., Krugman) had said that Hillary’s plan “would boost oil industry profits.”

In fact (again), Krugman made it clear that he was referring to McCain’s proposal.  But that didn’t stop the Obama campaign from running the false ad before today’s Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

Krugman actually called for a retraction if the Obama ad misleadingly quoted him—not that a retraction would do much to reverse Indiana or North Carolina voters’ false impressions at this point.

[……]

In short, it’ll be hard for the Obama campaign to accurately claim that its recent ad had misquoted some other economics expert at the New York Times.
 
Let’s get back to my fundamental question: will Obama say just about anything—even if untrue—simply to get some votes?  I’ll leave that for you to decide.”  END QUOTE

Even Salon has run an article saying Obama is WRONG about the gas tax.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/06/gas_tax/print.html

SYMBOLIC? So in other words, you’re admitting that the gas tax thing is BULLSHIT PANDERING, since she hasn’t submitted ANY legislation, and so it’s paramount to talking a whole bunch of shit about nothing.

Her ‘symbolic’ gas tax holiday is the same as me writing a check to pay the rent, and showing it to a few folks, and saying, HERE’s my ‘intent’ to pay my rent, but I’m never gonna let it out of my hands, let alone actually give in to the collectors of such. And when they come to evict my ass, it will NOT be ‘symbolic’ that my ass is on the street.

MEANTIME, we understand JUST FINE -thank you very much- that we are far more than being NICKLE AND DIMED to death! A billion foreclosures and massive unemployment is far beyond the ‘nickle and dimed’ to death stage. How about STARVED to death? How about murdered by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

How about all of THAT bert? You think we don’t ‘get’ that?

NO! We DON’T need somebody to stand up for us, we just need somebody to stop bulldozing us to death, and to let us stand up on our own.

And yeah, FINALLY someone who can do something about it DID manage to make it past the obstacles, and that was Barack Obama.

Hillary’s been around since dirt was discovered, when do you suppose SHE -FINALLY- decided to pay any attention? Was it 5, 10, or 15 years after she started to notice the effects of her gung-hosim on NAFTA and all of her other corporate genes that allowed her to setup, and to continue to call the shots on the FREE trade and support of the corporate fascism that has decimated all but the top ELITE to which she belongs?

Fight for us my ass! I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Hillary is the epitome of the criminal con artist who sneaks into our garage at night, and damages the engine to the car beyond repair, and then shows up the next day as we’re trying to start it, and offers to ‘fix’ it for a few grand.

Is that how she’s standing up for YOU? Well, for the last 16 years at least, she’s been BULLDOZING the rest of us.

Are you on ‘symbolic’ drugs bert?

Well now Hillary is becoming such a rebel against the special interests they must be laughing in heir boots.

If you call pandering symbolic, I guess Hillary is the symbolic hyper boil.

Yep. That’s the fatal flaw in Obama’s campaign right there in black & white for all of us to read and consider.

“What we politely call the blue collar working class.”

Voters in this class are not as educated as you, nor make as much money, live in the ‘right’ neighborhood or attend the politically correct churches, but we’re not fond of being talked down too. When one candidate is willing to act, even if it might be tilting at a big ol’ windmill like the oil companies and the oil man in the oval office, at least she wants to do something. If all Obama can say, as his closing arguement for the two biggest votes of the race to date, that we blue collar workers are too stupid to understand that a gass tax holiday is a symbol, not a solution, then he’s going to get his ass kicked today. Hillary isn’t foolish enough to believe this is a long term solution, and everybody knows that. Obama may be techincally correct, but is not on the right side of this issue.

What some of you just don’t get is it’s NOT the economic policy or the gas tax holiday that’s the issue.  To the middle class and the poor (Obama’s ‘bitter’ folk) the issue is that FINALLY someone, Hillary, understands that they are getting nickel and dimed to death and they want someone to stand up for them and acknowledge that they’ve been heard and they want to know someone will fight for THEM for a change. The gas tax is symbolic!

The refineries say they are operating near capacity and cannot expand production.  People are buying everything that is refined.  So why would the oil companies cut the price?  They instead will pocket the gasoline tax cut themselves.  When supply is fixed, price is determined on the demand side.  That is standard economic theory.

Me too…(horse loving friends). Problem is, they love to BET on ‘em.

Mark from Colorado,

What an excellent post. You hit the bulls-eye in describing these types of voters…many of us have tried to break this down this way, but I don’t think any of us have done it so well and concisely.

You’re on the Mark, (no pun intended) and this will be a ‘keeper’ post for me to reference in my own discussions from a broader perspective.

One of the problems (maybe the MAIN one) is what you directed in the selfish voters that are generally uninformed. What we politely call the blue collar working class.

I would argue that this might be forgiven, IF in fact it actually DID advance their personal interests. ($30.00 in their pocket over the term of a single summer). Needless to say, it DOES NOT! Matter of fact, one collision between the car and the pothole on the way to work, (if they’re still lucky enough to have a job) and they’re out 10 times that much.

They don’t think.

Thanks again…

You’re right, Eugene, this kind of pandering is dumb, especially for Hillary. The current tax level was set in 1993 when her husband Bill was President.  There were good reasons for the increase in 1993, and good reasons for not suspending the tax now.  Hillary should know better, but what can you say.

So whom do we believe.  The 200 economists who say that the gas tax holiday is a bad idea, a non-starter?  Or Hillary. 

Who do we believe sunk health-care reform in 1992?  Hillary, or the hundreds of people whose suggestions she ignored.  Since we as yet have health-care reform seems like Hillary had it wrong.

Track record is about all we have to go on as voters.  Obama’s is scant.  Hillary’s is glaringly flawed.  Take your pick.

Is that the going rate for Obama’s big oil doners? If so, then maybe you’re onto something there.

Geez, Joe, if you love Hillary’s political approach and you need $50 to take your kid to the beach, and you don’t care about the federal deficit, do this:

Pretend you’re a lobbyist. Send 50 cents to Hillary. The normal return to a lobbyist for political contributions is a minimum of 100 times the contribution to the contributor. So Hillary will arrange for the government to pay you at least $50, and your kid will be happy. ‘Course you’ll have to find someone you know with a bank account to cash the check. But just think, sometimes the pols return MILLIONS of times the contributions in government funds!

You might hit the jackpot, and be able to buy a beach in Aruba and retire. Good luck.

RE: Get a horse…....If only…..
RE: Philosophy….As we think so we become…
RE: Poetry…..:

Ordinary Poetry In Extraordinary Times

our kitchen is filled

with the scent of gardenias

my honey is dancing and eating his pie

our senses are filled

and I know how he feels yes

my honey is dancing

he knows I know why…



the scent of sweet honey

flows up from the cup wells

the scents of sweet honey and coffee and pie

this day is beginning

with hummingbirds floating

my honey is dancing

he’s hugging the sky…

***************************************
Strive on, friends….
Love,
Gramma

Yeah, read her energy policy, and Barack’s is superior. Hint here, Obama is against the gas tax holiday now because it didn’t work when he helped it pass in the Illinois State Senate. That’s learning from experience.

This conversation regarding the gas tax summer holiday is interesting. 

One category of voter this works for is the stupid voter. It reminds me of Junior High student office elections where candidates promise everything from longer breaks between classes to soda in the water fountains. They have no chance of any of those things to become reality. It is amazing that some voters never grow up and are still being played into making voting decisions based upon fairy tales sold by candidates.

The second category of voter this works with is the selfish voter. The sad fact is that a certain percentage, and a majority of them over the past 20 years, of Americans make voting decision based on their own selfishness.  Many voters never use any voting criteria other than how they percieve the candidates to effect the immediate contents of their own wallet. It is amazing to me that any American would make a decision to put 300,000 road construction workers out of work this summer in order to have a chance of putting $30 in their wallet from gas purchase savings over the summer.  It is sad but this is the selfishness of some voters and this is exactly what Senator Clinton is and seems to able to count on.

Many of these two types of voters are politely called blue collar working class voters.  They typically may not watch cable news, be informed, or even care to be.

It is sad that this kind of irresponsible proposal by Senator Clinton seems to be getting some voter traction and may give her a win in Indiana.  Is this really the kind of old school nonsense politics that we continue to vote for? Are we still that stupid and selfish?  This is type of politics exactly what Senator Obama is trying to change! Where are the principles that would not only reject this kind of proposal but the candidate that proposes it?  Come on America!!!

Sepharad, I third Jackpine. Good post. I’m one of those god-damned secular humanists, and a rabid anti-zionist, but it might be fun to take an arm-waving, shouting ride with you someday. Poetry?: Roses are red, Violets are blue, If you’d quit terrorizing Palestinians, More folks might like you.

Gene you love Obama and that’s cool. Obama has no short term ideas and not much to offer people to lower gas prices. You can ridicule Hillary’s gas tax idea because you see pandering. Where you fighting as hard against the bailout of Bear Stearns? Where you as opposed to the so-called economic stimulus package? Most Americans don’t have multiple income from websites, a newspaper job and all those easy appearance dollars you make on TV. Most of us have to make hard choices everyday and quite frankly $50 is $50 and if it means I can take a trip to the beach when my daughter is begging me to take her, you see nine-year-olds aren’t so much concerned with what liberal elites consider pandering, they just want to go to the beach. At least Hillary wants to offer a short term relief solution. If Obama would spend less time figuring out how to save his reputation and advancing his career and spending a bit more time helping the average voter, he might see more blue collar support.

Tom,

Enjoy your sarcasm and on other posts.  You are right, we just went on a virtual horse ride below.

I second Leefeller.  Your post was a great read, and revealed one of those truths that we won’t ever find in the news.

OK, look, enough with the stupid ideas. We’re wasting time. The world is going to hell. There are food riots, and gas prices going through the roof.

We need solutions to these problems. Most of you may not realize it, but the solution to these and all other problems lies right before your eyes, right now. Right at your fingertips, right now.

We need to get a computer in the hands of every soul on earth. We all know what will happen to them, the same thing that happened to us. They’ll become entranced, they’ll spend every waking moment at the tube, they’ll start living virtual lives.

So we can feed them virtual food. Think of the gas we’ll save, when massive trucks no longer have to travel coast to coast, loaded with turnips and bananas.

Income disparities? No problem. Start a virtual conglomerate, and make yourself CEO. Want to fly your own Gulfstream to Spain for lunch? Just grab your joystick, and put the fuel on your virtual credit card. Your wife/husband aging too quickly? Just hook up with Starter Spouse Replacement.com.

The Green effect will be magical. Though none of us will ever see it, being at our computers 24/7/365, the earth with heal itself. Trees and grass will grow, the skies will clear, sparkling water will flow.

Unless we create a pixel famine…........

Enjoyed the post, I have some best friends who are horse lovers. For real.

Watching the crazies who are disciples of Hagee dancing like the fools they are, with the star of david and the stars and stripes intertwined, makes one wonder how these poor deranged souls survive from day to day.
Who dresses them?
Who feeds them?
Are they truly citizens? And of which planet?

We should all be ashamed. For allowing the mentally unfit, such as Hagee and his flock, wander the streets without proper care, without the assistance they need to live a useful life, allowing them to explore the depths of degradation and self-destruction, while their minds shatter into shards of religious lunacy.

F*** cars. F***buses. F*** public transportation. F*** chariots. F*** bicycles. F*** skateboards. F*** inline skates. F*** scooters.

Pogo sticks, that’s the answer.

Instead of using gas, we create it.

Purple Girl,

I haven’t watched the video yet. I will get to it, and probably I won’t be surprised, because of the fact that I’ve been keeping a very wary eye on these “Near Enders” for a while now.

My question though is this: is there anything in the video, (or anywhere else…Bill Moyer is credible enough for me) that actually connects Hill McSame to this cult?

You mentioned that you were baffled by her statement until you saw the video, so I’m assuming that the video will be a helpful illumination for me as well. But I’m just wondering if there is any other ‘mortar’ so to speak, to make the case. It’s just hard for me to imagine her as being in anyway ‘religiously’ inclined, other than for show purposes.

Seems we have a nation of Sociopathic fools, so why would they talk about it?

They seem crazy to me, but who am I?

Isn’t it about time for Hillary and McCain to give up on their temporary-rescinding-of-the-gas -tax proposal, since that idea has received such a cool reception, and come up with a new idea?

Insiders report that they’re already hard at work on another proposal.

Sometime next week, expect them to announce that they are planning to ask all citizens to join in a massive dinosaur hunt and burial party. ‘This may not help us immediately’, reads the proposed press release, ‘But isn’t it about time we did something nice for our grandchildren, instead of always jabbing them with the short end of the stick?’

Off topic I know- but anyone who is truly concerned about what either Mac Or Hillary wil do as president- MUST SEE Hagee Video on Bill Moyer’s Journal.com- absolutley Terrifyingly enlightening.
Now I realize that Mac is not the only mentally disabled candidate. It explains Clearly Why and to Whom Hillary was speaking when she said she’d “Obliterate Iran” using Nukes. Far too many media have Ignored this-WHY? It is obvious she was telling US what her Religious Affliation IS. Foolish me I thought her only one of Cheney’s Corp Whore Proteges. But it is far worse- She’s an ‘End of Days’ Precipatator.her doctrine is not to just Enslave mankind for money- she is willing to destroy it to bring about the Rapture. I was baffled by her statement until I saw that video! Hagee makes Cheney look like the lesser of two Evils- I am Terified. Plenty of Crazy cults have killed themselves because of ‘Armegeddon’ doctrines- But Mac or hillary will have All the RESOURCES to MAKE IT HAPPEN!!Tehy won’t just kill themselves- They Kill All Of Us!

If we really wanted to solve the oil problem, we’d declare Iraq and Iran the fifty-first and fifty-second states (beating Israel to the punch), punch a bunch of holes in Alaska, widen our highways to accommodate the new ‘Super Hummers’, and have an auto-ball. Until the xtians trick the jews into committing suicide, and all the good, ‘holy’ folks ascend to rapturous ‘heaven’, leaving us heathens with even more of a glut of oil.
What shortage?

Oh, great-satan, I thought this campaign was all about ‘change’. That’s all I was suggesting.

whoa…slow down there Tom.

Speaking of ‘Stupid Ideas’, why on earth have we allowed this nation to deviate so far from the original, truly conservative, values of the Constitution?

Just think, if Negroes were still just considered 3/5’s of a person, and women were not allowed to vote, let alone run for office, we’d eliminate 2/3’s of our current quandry.

And if we reinstated literacy tests for voters and candidates, we’d eliminate the other third.

Then we could just wait, peacefully, for January 2009, throw The Dummy and his Cabal out of office, and run this f**king country ourselves.

‘God’ knows, we couldn’t do any worse.

Banter the alleged facts when the difference will be a conclusion of same results.

Anyone else notice that as gas prices have shot up, talk of global warming has taken a dive. Do any candidates or politicians have the balls to say that high gas prices are a GOOD thing, whether the oil companies are making fat profit or not?
  Wanna cut carbon emissions, curb idiotic consumerist gluttony? Raise the price to $15 a gallon.
  Oh, but then only rich people can drive their own chariot. Well, that would be a change, absolutely no historical precedent for that! Well, maybe having your own fucking super chariot is a luxury? Ever think of that? And rich people can afford luxuries that we can’t…so what. If we understand what human happines really is, there is little basis for envy.
  Its called a bus, a public transportation system…meet people, integrate..rather than fly around isolated in your robot shell, from which perspective everyone seems to appear the enemy. Do, you like other people less or more when in your car? Are they suddenly assholes and maniacs?
  Oh, yeah. Ever been to Holland. Its called a bicycle!!!! Oh, we might even solve the obesity and heart disease problem as well.

  But faggot politicians (no offense to alternate lifestyle folks…i don’t refer to you…just like that word,)will never have the yarbles to say something like this. Basic flaw in majoritarian democracy right there. They have to please the people. Don’t we elect LEADERS? Aren’t leaders people who might just institute things the masses won’t like in the short run…Roosevelt in the 30s and 40s comes to mind.
  Sure it would solve the economic woes in a heart beat…subtract the cost of a car, two or the cars, from your budget, add in bus fare or a bicycle..hey maybe a scooter.
  Oh and maybe we all can’t fly on airplanes whenever we want to…so what!
  I say, hell yeah! $15 a gallon gas. Give a fat break (or free gas from the gov’t stock pile) for the transport of real food (not junk food…but real food) and public transportation services.
  When some real, sound alternative fuel becomes viable, it will usurp the market and we can maybe afford to drive around all the time again, but maybe by that time, we won’t want to!

Guffy,

You’re right here of course…

“.. Again, Obama made the right choice, the oil companies and people who buy SUV’s are to blame in my book.”

And, thanks to the law of common sense, most others can figure this out as well. I just noted from Inherit the Wind’s post, that he said everybody he knows, (hard core conservatives and moderates, as well as liberals and moderates on the other side) ALL think this is a bad and dumb idea. But what it REALLY is, is political posturing and pandering, ESPECIALLY since they KNOW it WON’T happen anyway!

Eugene points that out very well at the beginning of the piece…

•  “All that matters is how their words will “play” with voters who are presumed to be too stupid to realize that they’re the ones being played.”

And then this…

•  “Actually, McCain might not understand why lifting the tax of 18.4 cents per gallon is a bad idea—remember, he has confessed that the economy isn’t his strong suit. I’d bet the ranch that Clinton understands, though. And before either campaign indignantly proclaims its candidate’s total sincerity, I’d like to see the legislation that either of these U.S. senators has introduced to suspend the tax… I’m still waiting.”

Yep, I’d bet the ranch that Rodham Clinton knows it too. But, she’ll say ANYTHING to ‘play’ the public, because that’s her stock in trade, the consummate con artist. The only thing she’s failed to ‘grasp’ (and won’t) is that after nearly 8 years of this same stuff by her colleagues on the Repug side of the Dynasty, American’s aren’t in the mood to put up with the lies and tricks.

So maybe that’s one thing that came out of these horrific years…a more cautious and unfortunately jaded population. So, an education of sorts, even for those of us who couldn’t otherwise afford it. Not exactly the best way to learn about the evils of fascism, but hey…better late than not at all.

Assuming the voters to be stupid isn’t a good idea at this point in time, since all it does is piss people off. I guess she hasn’t figured that part out.

Meantime, don’t mind bert. You’ll discover (you probably already have) that she can and will justify ANYTHING that comes out of Hillary’s mouth or ass.
If Hillary came and murdered your family, bert would find a way to explain why she did it, and why it was the right thing to do. If not that, she’d try to tell you that it was really Obama dressed up like Hillary who actually perpetrated the crime.
Obviously, bert thinks everybody is stupid as well.

Who said anything about trust, bert?  He voted to give them the opportunity to make the right choice, and they chose instead to squander away the money because hell, Americans were buying SUV’s at incredible rates.  Looks like the only thing they did wrong was pay attention to what the market was telling them.  And that was that Americans will keep on buying gas-sucking pieces of trash.  Again, Obama made the right choice, the oil companies and people who buy SUV’s are to blame in my book.

If Obama trusted the oil industry to do what is right he is more naive than I thought. I wouldn’t want him talking with Iran then. It is scary that he would belive the energy/oil industry. I think it is because he is in their back pockets.

Almost all the hard-core and moderate Conservatives I know think this tax reduction is a bad idea.

Funny thing, most Moderates and Liberals I know think it’s a bad idea too, as do most leftists.

And both think it’s a bad idea for the same reasons…they agree that BOTH McCain and Clinton are wrong on this.

When was the last time THAT happened???? It’s a BAD idea!

No wonder the U.S.of A percieves itself as the most powerful nation on earth.  The most free, the most democratic, etc. etc.

Umm, nice try Bert.  IF you read the following, it will explain WHY Obama voted for the energy policy.  Pay attention to the third paragraph especially and you might see why he voted for it, and made the Smart Choice.  Wait, isn’t that Hillary’s slogan?  Oh well. 

Key Vote Analysis

The Bush administration said this bill’s $14.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives would spur oil and gas companies to find innovative ways to reduce the nation’s dependence on foreign oil, conserve resources and reduce pollution. Supporters also said the bill would lead to the creation of more oil refineries, new oil drilling projects and new nuclear power plants—arguing that all were necessary to meet the nation’s energy needs and reduce importation of foreign oil.

Opponents said the measure amounted to a give-away to large energy companies already flush with cash due to rising oil and gas prices and that it would do little to solve the nation’s energy-related problems. Opponents further argued that the bill could lead to drilling in coastal and other sensitive areas and damage the environment.

The bill called for increase use of alternative fuels such as ethanol and offered incentives for development of alternative energy sources (such as wind and solar), tax breaks for hybrid cars, construction of more energy efficient buildings. The bill did not include the controversial proposal to open Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) for oil drilling, but the proposal was added to a later bill, which was defeated.

The final version of the energy bill passed both the House and Senate in late July 2005 and was signed into law by the president on August 8, 2005.

Does Obama have control over what the oil companies choose to do with that flush of cash? No.  Did he sign on with the bill because it would give those oil companies the opportunity to invest in different energy alternatives?  Yes.  I still side with Obama on this.

heavyrunner writes:    “It’s to Obama’s credit that he has the wisdom and courage and faith in the American people’s common sense to call a spade a spade on this one.”
I knew someone would eventually say something like this. No, what you are really seeing here is crass political opportunism by Obama. What you are seeing here is a classic flip-flop. What you are seeing here is politics as usual.

While in the Illinois State Senate, Obama supported a tax holiday on three separate occasions. Obama even joked that he wanted signs on Illinois gas pumps telling motorists that he was responsible for lowering prices.

Obama’s change of heart today is really only designed to hide his Illinois record as well as hoodwink you so that you won’t remember that HE was the one who voted for the Cheney Energy Bill that put us in this situation to begin with. Hillary voted no on that bill.

As I pointed out in my previous post on this thread, Hillary’s plan does not take money away from road and bridge repairs. John McCain’s plan does that.  But not Hillary’s. Hillary pays for the tax relief by taxing the windfall profits of oil companies. Those very same windfall profits that Senator Obama made possible by voting for the Cheney Energy bill in the first place. And it is these very same oil companies that contribute very heavily to Obama’s campaign. But I am sure Senator Obama doesn’t want you to remember THAT. He wants to change the subject by attacking Hillary for offering SOME relief to people who are crying out for help.

P.S. to Aegrus - Mrs. Clinton has also stated in various interviews that her yax relief proposal is for the short term only and that a full proposal would have to look at a whole host of other energy and environmental issues. I will not try to sum Hillary’s proposals on energy and the environment here as they are available on her website.

Purple Girl..

This is an especially good post from you. (all are, but this one really hits a core fundamental).

To sum it up, Human Rights are the trade of the Global Market. This isn’t new of course. Any Human Right that can be turned into a commodity has been…

Health care, food, (with labor it’s been centuries since the slave trade was supposedly “de-legalized”) and water is in there too, along with the control of the energy as well as the means of production. (that’s been for centuries as well).

Yep, we’ve been placed on the Global Auction Block a long, long, time ago.

Ah, i’m glad that silly season is finally giving way to straight up pandering season…what a relief.

Now it’s true that Clinton’s proposal is better than McCains…which is like a Big Mac having slightly less fat than a Whopper…but it will only be better if she gets that windfall profit tax passed before lifting the gas tax.  So, as soon as she gathers the votes to tax the oil companies we can talk about it.

I found it particularly amusing that when reporters confronted the Clinton campaign with the fact that no expert thinks lifting the gas tax is a good, sound or reasonable idea, the campaign responded that Sen Clinton doesn’t need experts.

She sounds more like G.W. Bush every day.  I’m starting a collection to hang a “Mission Accomplished” banner behind her when/if she accepts the nomination.

I love ya, Gene, and your good buddy Keith too.  But, in your opening, you mention:
“All that matters is how their words will “play” with voters who are presumed to be too stupid to realize that they’re the ones being played.”

I agree, and think you and Keith should stop discussing how the words will “play” all night, every night.  You are both too smart for that.  Get into some discussions of policy, talk to experts, do some research and present it, cause we all agree with you about the “way it will play” nonsense.

“What else would happen? All the rhetoric from McCain and Clinton about climate change would be revealed to be just so much hot air”

Eugene, they don’t have to pass a bill to prove they are full of hot air.  Just proposing it is all the evidence a thinking person needs.

Both Clinton and McCain are worth over $100 million.  No wonder they don’t realize a proposal to cut $4.50 gas by $0.18 is a sick and meaningless joke, even if it would work, and I think 7 years of George Bush and Company have awakened the American people enough so they realize that the gas tax proposal is just one more crappy piece of meaningless BS from out of touch Washington politicians.

It’s to Obama’s credit that he has the wisdom and courage and faith in the American people’s common sense to call a spade a spade on this one.

Jacob, these people aren’t journalists. Every one of them is an opinionist pundit moron, and most of them have absolutely no authentic credentials. You’re confused.

Bert, where are the economists to cite stating any of these gas tax holidays will have any effect at all? There are none! There is mountains of evidence showing this idea is pointless, and only benefits oil companies. The admittance this is a temporary suspension only adds to the claim it is political posturing. Why don’t you go into detail on how her platform only accounts for increasing oil production, and has nothing to do with getting pragmatic solutions to the energy crisis? Why don’t you talk about how whether you tax the company or the people with this gas tax… consumers ultimately pay the cost? This legislative “proposal” is bullshit, and you know it.

Aww gee, Eugene. You give me so much to work with here.

****“There’s something maddening about this presidential campaign.”***

Yes, there is. The media pundits are worse this year than in 2004. None more so than you, Olbermann and Maddow.

***“I’d like to see the legislation that either of these U.S. senators has introduced to suspend the tax. ……………I’m still waiting.”***

Tell you what, Gene. Clinton will get to it but she is busy running for President, just as Obama has stated he is too busy running for President to hold any hearings on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee’s Subcommittee on European Affairs, which deals with Europe, with NATO, with various related political and security matters.

***“What else would happen? The money from the gas tax goes into a trust fund that pays for construction and repair of highways and bridges. If the tax were suspended for the summer, the fund would lose $9 billion. That would mean less maintenance of potholed roads and rusting bridges—and no jobs for thousands of people who otherwise would have been hired on work crews.”***

Obviously you have either not read Clinton’s full proposal or you conveniently choose to ignore it. Hillary’s plan also calls for a windfall profits tax, proceeds of which would go into the “trust fund that pays for construction and repair of highways and bridges —and no jobs for thousands of people who otherwise would have been hired on work crews.” Mrs. Clinton has also stated in various interviews that her proposal is for the short term only and that a full proposal would have to look at a whole host of other energy and environmental issues. Suspending the federal gasoline tax for the summer is just part of Hillary’s proposal. You conveniently ignore the rest.

***“So why are we even talking about it?”***

Yes, Eugene. Why exactly did you write about ‘it?’ Your piece of writing is just so much hot air and contributes nothing except as another chance by you to promote Obama while denigrating Hillary.

cognitorex writes:  “Obama trusts the intelligence of the voters…[and]are ready to vote shoulder to shoulder for honesty and change.
“

Would these be the same voters who voted for Reagan, voted for Bush twice, thought Al Gore was a liar, thought Max Cleland was unAmerican and supported bin Laden, thought the swift-boaters were correct, and who believe WMD were found in Iraq?

Well then, that is such a relief to know.  NOT !!!!

Interesting.  To criticize Rodham means to praise Obama.

In her drive to garner votes, Rodham says she’ll obliterate Iran, she knows what it’s like to be in a war zone (the war had been over for a year) and subjected to ‘live’ fire, she favors lifting the gas tax for the summer… She’s bound to get jumped on when saying this stuff but apparently thinks it’s worth it if it means votes.  Not too bright, Ms. Rodham.

Obama’s campaign rhetoric deals in generalities, nice and vague and therefore hard to challenge.  Pretty smart, Mr. Obama.  (Easy to see why the media, the Repubs and Rodham went ballistic over the Wright thing - finally something to ‘get’ Obama on.)

That light has given us plenty of illumination so that we can see where to throw the rotten tomatoes for treating the American public like a bunch of gas guzzling idiots (that we are, but there are a few decent people out there).  “Drrr…I get 18 cents off a gallon!  Uhhhhh, sweet, go Clinton, I guess!?”  Not this democrat. 

My favorite though was Clinton’s video shoot at the gas station with some “typical” American “suffering” at the pump.  He was driving a flippin’ f-350 for crying out loud.  And I am sure he uses it for construction purposes too.  Pffft.  That truck hasn’t seen anything but paved roads my friends.  People who drive big trucks and whine about gas prices deserve it.  It’s the only way mother earth is gonna stick it to these idiots.

In Britain, the Treasury recently raised the “road tax” on older vehicles with higher C.O.-two emissions.  Big public outcry due to loss of value to those cars, but they did it anyway, because it’s what needed doing.  Could you imagine that ever happening here?

No One dare mentions the real reason for the cost of fuel is the Hedging the Bet gambling done daily on the stock market.
All life sustaining Products should be removed from the Profiteering market- It’s unethical and Immoral!
Food first & Foremost, but energy which is required to manufacture and distribute food must also be Removed. If people want to bet on high high IPods or Xboxes will bring it- so be it. But to bet on food, shelter, labor, and natural Resource is a Crime aganist Humanity.their intention and their tactics are to drive these Products prices Up. They are also betting (and causing ) labor costs (wages & benefits) to go down. they are placing mankind on the Global Auction block, and our kids are ahlf way up the stairs right Now! We are mere commodities to be used and disgarded, at the cheapest price possible!
There are some serious and deep seeded Changes that must begin if we intend to move in to the new millenia- and Honor the responsiblities that go along with the Gifts that have been given to us as the Stewards of this Planet, so our descendant have a fighting chance in the future. The Time is NOW to shed the shackles which have bound Humanity for far too long
Not to mention neither Clinton nor Mac are in a position to make such a suspenion in tht taxes- FYI you are both still Just Senators- and shitty ones at that!

I’m surprised Clinton and McCain didn’t come up with the idea of giving all drivers a total tax deduction for the money they spend on gas.

Of course, that would benefit Hummer and Escalade drivers disproportionately, but hey, nothing’s perfect.

And they would be sure to get the total support of BigOil for that plan, so it’s amazing that they missed it.

As for looking at elitism and the truth, this week has seen a great example.
Hillary and McCain offer voters a half of a torn band aid in a gasoline tax rollback that depends on and presumes that the average American voter is plug stupid.
Barack, in stark contrast says, “You guys who want change; let’s start right here.” “This gas tax rebate gimmick is simple pandering and serves no positive economic purpose for the country you love and wish to see set on the right road again.”
Obama trusts the intelligence of the voters, blue collar Catholics included, that they have plenty of good old American common sense to sniff out pandering political pooh; that they are ready to vote shoulder to shoulder for honesty and change.
Only Obama trusts the melting pot cast of Americans. That is 180 degrees from the twittling twattling yammerings that he is elitist.

All of this discussion draws attention to what the ‘proposal’ reveals about the candidates who say it. Far from being a distraction, it shines a spotlight on two of the players in the main event!

This is true.  Anything to stop Americans from burning oil is a good thing.

Why is it that we all know we have to stop burning oil, we know the 18-cent summer tax relief is bogus, we know OUR LYING POLITICIANS ARE DECADES LATE in dealing substantively with our energy problems and we still position ourselves behind either one of the liars in the 2008 election?

You can’t speak the truth on even one issue in the country and get elected. 

That says volumes about us as an electorate.