“.. If Clinton wins the republican nomination, isnÂ’t it possible that upset supporters of Obama will vote McCain or not at all?..”

TheDebater,

I know this is a mistake, but I had to laugh, (uncomfortably) because…it’s pretty much the reality…

You ask here..“If Clinton wins the REPUBLICAN nomination…”

Republican??

I admit that she’s running like a republican…and it seems to me that the republicans have themselves covered on all ends. Either McCain or Hillay would mean another Coup of the repugs.

Now I’ve this more than a few times, and way back when. No doubt folks thought I was crazy then, and may still.

But, I’ve always believed that the plan was to run a republican on the republican ticket, and a republican on the democratic ticket.

There isn’t even a hair’s breath between Hillary and McCain, unless you wanna consider that health care plan, and I’m not even counting that, because it’s sounding more and more (at least her plan) like a corporate welfare package for the insurance industry, which is a continuation of the Dick Bush program.

Meantime, I’ve decided not to entertain the outcome of the Democratic nomination being stolen by Hillary, because while you suggest a ‘what if’ she ‘wins’ that’s already impossible. Hillary cannot ‘win’ the democratic nomination, (which is what I think you meant, rather than the republican nomination). She could STEAL it, but Obama supporters aren’t gonna vote for McCain instead.

Maybe that’s another ‘tactic’ for the repugs, but I don’t see that happening, because I don’t see the American public standing by for yet another coup of our government.

Now I don’t have a crystal ball to know what the repugs might do when it becomes evident to all, that Hillary will NOT run INSTEAD of Barack Obama in the general election. That remains to be seen.

But, there’s NO doubt that Hillary Clinton cannot ‘win’ the democratic nomination…not with the extra $10 million that she supposedly collected in the past 2 days, and not even if the repugs are able to manipulate the rest of the democratic primaries in her favor.

TheDebater,

This “fear” you mention is real unless the Democrats get the healing time in to forget the difference they had during the primaries. Republican’s seem to have gotten over their distaste for McCain many of whom intensely disliked him. But if the fight between Clinton and Obama goes beyond the first week in June, then the Democratic Party leadership has plenty to worry about. If you discard all the trash talk between the candidates, they are not that far apart on the real issues facing this country and how they would go about solving them. Democrats would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces, if they vote for McCain. Dean, Edwards, Gore, and other senior Democrats will need to intervene in the next 40 days to make sure the divisiveness is ended.

My fear is that McCain might actually have a shot at the presidency. As of now Democrats are pretty much split between Clinton and Obama. Republicans, on the other hand, assuming they vote for their own party have one candidate to support. If Clinton wins the republican nomination, isn’t it possible that upset supporters of Obama will vote McCain or not at all? I sure as hell hope not!

Conservative Yankee:

Here is the quote:  The article “The Man Who Loved Roads” discussed the relationship between President Harry S. Truman and General Dwight D. Eisenhower. In July 1945, on the autobahn in Germany, President Truman had told the victorious General Eisenhower, “General, there is nothing you may want that I won’t try to help you get.” That included, he said, the Presidency in 1948.

James Roosevelt tried to make that happen because Truman’s popularity was so low in 1948, but Eisenhower turned the Democrat’s down.  Truman’s popularity in 1952 stood at 22% still the all time low. Even George W. Bush is higher than that, so he knew he would be defeated in a run against Eisenhower, who by this time had announced he was a Republican.

Eisenhower was a “moderate” compared to Robert Taft the leader of the conservative wing of the Republican Party at that time.  Ike did regret his appointments of Warren and Brennan, who became court liberals and considered excellent Supreme Court justices.  Eisenhower was not a political “ideologue” which was the reason most of the people who knew him did not know whether he was a Republican or a Democrat until he announced.

You may be right on the issue of Vietnam. I haven’t seen much data on that conversation between Eisenhower and Kennedy.

It’s time for the super delegates to make their choice. As I see it, it’s not between Hillary and Obama, it’s between throwing away or keeping the party’s base.

It’s between continuing to use the failed strategies of past elections, or building upon the enormous gift of new and much younger voters who represent the party’s future.

It’s possible that Hillary could beat McCain, but what will her nomination do to the party? On the other hand, it’s certain that Obama will beat McCain, but more importantly, Democrats will have created a much larger progressive majority with a much longer life span.

On the issue of Iraq, I wonder if it wouldn’t be quicker to end the war if McCain won the white house, and the Democrats won big majorities in the Senate and House. That was how we got out of Vietnam.

In this regard, Obama is again the better choice because of his grass roots support. Even if he did loose the election, the chances that Dems pick-up seats are much greater.

There is no concern for the Corps- either Mac or Hillary is a win/ win- neither are really representives of the party’s they have dressed themselves up to be- Hillary’s the ‘Devil in the blue Dress’ She’s Their Girl!
they have been pulling out all the stops to steal this election for her- Mac is just a ‘spot holder’ ‘a stop gap’ the Default key - just in case, Obama (US) is able to foil their election Rigging.
Any Old School Republican and Any Real Dem will tell you neither of these candidates have anything in common with OUR Principles. these tow are just 2 complictie Puppets for the Cheney & Co Shadow Gov’t. May Repubs and Dems turn away from both these manchurian candidates should they be placed at the top of the Tickets- I certainlywill be voting for a 3rd party Candidate should Hillary be handed the nomination- I will NEVER VOTE DEM AGAIN! (Local State Or National)They both have sold their souls to the Inc’s vile Global Auction Block Agenda

Trying to compare john McCain to Eisenhower is ludicrous. Ike was the most popular person in America in 1952 period. Truman offered to step down in 1948 if Ike would run as a Democrat. Eisenhower, Ford, & George HW Bush were true moderates. McCain is a right wing Republican in the mold of Taft, Goldwater, Reagan and George W. Bush. Eisenhower vowed to get us out of Korea and did so. McCain vows to keep us in Iraq. Eisenhower ran a balanced budget. We may never see that again in our lifetimes. Ike did not get us into any stupid wars and warned against the military-industrial complex and trading butter for guns. McCain is just the opposite. Can you imagine Eisenhower saying “Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran”.

...or perhaps, something even more sinister….

The last place democratic candidate would win over McCain. 

He’s only in place to support Hillary and take pot shots at Obama.  Hillary has voted lock step on major issues with the “entrenched” D.C. crowd, where political party doesn’t matter and the lobbiests weld too much control.

Dont be too sure about the Dems victory in the fall. Remember how Chimp in Charge was ‘re-elected’ in ‘04. Crap rolls downhill-when we have a callous, shortisighted materialistic misfit as president, many people tend to justify their own (similar) behavior and vote for the one with their own ‘values.’ Many even become more like this. Following the leader’s example is a basic human trait in many societies and unfortunately seems to be becoming more prevalent here.
Also, the dems in congress are indeed spineless wimps, but also bear in mind the repugs have blocked them at every turn.

CY,

This is standard/conventional wisdom…the fact that anytime the country has the same party in control of Congress as the White House, bad things often happen. That cannot be denied. However, how do you define ‘disasterÂ’ in terms of Johnson or CarterÂ’s presidency as resultant from having a mostly Democratic Congress as well? Which disasters might those have been, putting aside for the moment, Viet Nam, and the Congress that failed to stop it?

OTOH, things change, and for the past 15 or so years, the SAME ONE PARTY has ruled both, as it does now.

The fact that the Dems got a tiny (non-significant for purposes of getting anything done) majority in Congress in 2006 changed nothing. There aren’t enough of them to do anything, and even many that are democrats ‘in name’ aren’t really democrats. They’re OLD democrats. That’s why we call them blue dog dems, among other things.

They are no more ‘progressive’ than the Clintons were.

So, the conventional wisdom no longer applies, because the lines are far too blurred now. That’s why the need for the change in “politics as has become usual.” That’s why most of Congress has to change as well, and it doesn’t much matter what party they call themselves. They just need to go.

And old conservative Republicans need to examine what ‘conservatism’ really means, if only to themselves. Neither the GWB admin or the repug Congress that’s been around for decades has the closest resemblance to the Conservative Republicans of old…INCLUDING John McCain. They are all Corporatists, and radical at that.

Nope, itÂ’s a new dawn and a new day. John McCain represents the total burial of a nation. WeÂ’ve slipped so far behind the rest of humanity these past few decades as to make us a 3rd world country, no different than any other 3rd world nation controlled by a small tyranny of the ruling class.

ItÂ’s time for us to moveÂ…and in a forward not a backward direction. Anybody who wants to stay stuck where they are should certainly be allowed to do that, but they damn sure canÂ’t be allowed to hold the rest of us back, or see the to economic extermination of the majority.

And if the Congress picks up more democrats this time around, they arenÂ’t gonna be in place simply to do the bidding of the executive branch. They damn well better be prepared to do the bidding of the people. Needless to say, it will be an advantage to have any Congress that is willing to do the bidding of the people, since we finally have a potential president who is willing to do the same.

I donÂ’t see how that causes any problems, regardless of their party affiliation. Matter of fact, while I know it might be hard to remember back that far, isn’t that the ‘ideal’ process? Congress working with the Executive branch to do the bidding of the people?

This is an election that the republicans can’t win. No matter how John McCain is dressed and sold, it’s still going to be the same John McCain who flies off the handle anytime someone stands in his way and whores his military record to a point of absurdity. Other postings are right, John McCain is a flawed candidate and these flaws will be brought up constantly once the GE actually begins. what else is the media going to cover? the news??

The Republicans have been pretty much running the same campaign since Reagan honed Goldwater’s message.  Republicans aren’t selling a candidate, they are selling a brand, and the brand they are selling is America!(tm).  They are going to sell John McCain as the America!(tm) candidate.  The one who LOVES America!(tm) the one who has fought for America!(tm) The one who wants America!(tm) to be strong and have America!(tm) to win!  You aren’t going to vote for a president who talks with people who don’t like America!(tm) and may only be acting like he likes America!(tm) an thus would make America!(tm) weak.

Expect that the republicans will trot out the usual less-taxes, smaller-government rhetoric but most of the energy will be directed at painting the picuture of John McCain, the candidate for America!(tm)

as i have said here before: we are being prepared for another stolen election with all these polls saying that McCain is neck and neck with the Dems. there is no way a man with his views is anywhere near electable in this climate. who could possibly say that if their democratic candidate is not nominated, then their next choice is McCain? how can anyone believe that with McCain being so similar to Bush, and the country clearly repudiating that moron, that McCain has a shot in hell of winning? But that is what we are being told.

no, we are being primed for another stolen election.

I keep stating this fact. John McCain is not being covered by the media and the GE hasn’t begun. Any discussion about the ability to defeat McCain this fall is purely for rhetorical purposes because when the Democratic nominee is next to McCain, he will look pretty damn bad. Do not feed the red herring, John McCain!

How to sell McCain?

Dress him as a 100-year-old bar of soft soap, and label him ‘New’, ‘Improved’, ‘A Surprise With Each Bar’, and see if it floats.