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Carter Was Right to Meet With HamasPosted on Apr 21, 2008By Joshua Holland, AlterNet Former President Jimmy Carter, who won a Nobel Peace Prize for what the prize committee described as his “untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts,” is touring the Middle East, as a private citizen, in a bid to revive interest in a moribund peace process between Israel and the Palestinians. He’s doing so at a time when their decades-long conflict is growing in intensity and distrust on both sides is running high. As a result, Carter is once again under fire from conservatives. Last week, Republican Rep. Sue Myrick [of North Carolina] went so far as to call for the former president’s passport to be revoked on Fox News. Carter’s crime was to sit down with leaders of Hamas last week to explore the possibility of waging peace in the Middle East. For many Israel-hawks, it wasn’t a first offense; Carter is guilty of viewing the Palestinians as human beings and for condemning human rights abuses on both sides of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. “Any side that kills innocent people is guilty of terrorism,” he told an audience at Cairo’s American University after his sit-down with members of Hamas. Carter rejects the shortsighted idea that negotiating with one’s enemies legitimizes or rewards them for their actions. According to the same logic, when a police department sends a hostage negotiator to talk down a gun-toting lunatic who’s barricaded himself in a house somewhere, that department would be guilty of “legitimizing” armed lunatics. It’s a ludicrous idea on its face, but one that’s essentially embraced by much of the American foreign policy establishment when it comes to the international arena. It’s an ideological construct that defies both common sense and the “best practices” that have been developed in the field of conflict resolution—best practices that were borne of hard experience. What Carter seems to understand, and his detractors appear unable to grasp, is that there is absolutely no chance of establishing and implementing a peace agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians without offering Hamas a seat at the negotiating table. One of the most obvious lessons from the international community’s efforts at conflict resolution is that getting signatures on a peace deal is only half the battle (if that much). Implementing peace treaties is much more difficult, and recent history is littered with wreckage of agreements that didn’t hold. One of the ways to almost guarantee that a peace agreement will be impossible to implement is to negotiate it without bringing all of the combatants to the table. Israel and Fatah (the faction of Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman of the Palestinian Authority) can negotiate a deal, but if Hamas isn’t invested in it, then they’ll have no incentive to comply with its terms. One doesn’t need to have warm feelings towards Hamas to recognize this reality. The idea that one can choose one’s negotiating partner, as opposed to negotiating with all of the parties to a conflict, is a fantasy. The fact that Hamas won a decisive victory in the 2006 Palestinian elections and is the legitimate voice of a majority of the Palestinian people reduces the notion to a bit of right-wing idealism that’s thoroughly divorced from historic experience. Carter, whose recent book Palestine: Peace not Apartheid ruffled many right-wing feathers, remains the only American president to have actually brokered a lasting peace deal between Israel and an Arab state. His work at Camp David in the 1970s not only led to a sustainable peace deal between Israel and Egypt, it set a precedent that was followed by other Arab states and eventually an offer by all of the Arab states for full recognition of Israeli sovereignty in exchange for Israel’s return to its pre-1967 borders. In other words, not only has Carter contributed to the region’s stability, he’s also done more to improve Israel’s security than all of his neoconservative naysayers combined. A common refrain among American and Israeli hawks is that Hamas must recognize Israel’s legitimacy before they can get a seat at the table. While that sounds reasonable on its face, in reality it’s asking Hamas to accept a key Israeli demand before negotiations begin. Meanwhile, Israel continues to build new settlements in the Occupied Territories, and continues its brutal siege of the Gaza strip. In other words, the position held by much of the Washington establishment is that Palestinians must make concessions before negotiations begin, but Israel is free to continue creating “facts on the ground,” even when it’s in violation of international law. It’s a pipedream to believe such a position can lead to anything more than extended bloodshed. Of course, what separates Carter from his detractors may be that he has a genuine desire for establishing peace in the Middle East, while many “pro-Israel” hawks favor (an impossible) military solution to the conflict, with Israel crushing the Palestinians into oblivion. If that is their position, they should be upfront about it and admit that they oppose a negotiated settlement to the conflict rather than lashing out blindly at anyone who is serious about making peace. Previous item: The Left Has Lost Its Way Next item: Sadr's Dark Warning Elsewhere: . CommentsAre you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. 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By cann4ing, April 25, 2008 at 5:33 pm #
Consider a May 2004 report from an objective third-party observer, Amnesty International, recounted by Prof. Norm Finkelstein in “Beyond Chutzpah.” Finkelstein just happens to be Jewish:
“In the past three and a half years the scale of the destruction carried out by the Israeli army in the Occupied Territories has reached an unprecedented level. The victims are often amongst the poorest and most disadvantaged who were expelled by Israeli forces or who fled in the war that followed the creation of Israel in 1948…More than 3,000 homes, hundreds of public buildings and private commercial properties, and vast areas of agricultural lands have been destroyed….Tens of thousands of men, women and children have been evicted from their homes and made homeless or have lost their source of livelihood. Thousands of other houses and properties have been damaged, many beyond repair. In addition, tens of thousands of other homes are under threat of demolition, their occupants living in fear of forced eviction and homelessness….Thousands of families have had their homes and possessions destroyed under the blades of the Israeli army’s US-made Caterpillar bulldozers. In the wake of the demolitions, men, women and children return to the ruins of their homes searching for whatever can be salvaged from under the rubble.”
Like Alan Dershowitz, Howard appears to be but another dissembling apologist for an indefensible, brutal occupation of Palestinian lands by Israel in direct violation of UN resolutions. His accusation of bias on the part of President Carter appears to be a variation on what Prof. Finkelstein refers to as “the misuse of anti-Semitism and the abuse of history,” the sub-title to his exhaustively researched book.
Report thisBy r. macd, April 24, 2008 at 12:46 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Thank you Ostrogoth for your succinct and complete comment on the situation in Gaza…and where ever else the Palistinians are at the mercy of the Zionists of Isreal. When will the world realize that the founders of Isreal were traumatized people, with minds damaged by the Holocaust, furiously angry, heart broken and grief stricken, they taught each new generation of children that the enemy was the people whose land they were living on and at 4 years old the Israeli kids were taught to hate and disrespect them….and never told what victimhood actually means…when they find out what it means Isreali young military personnel rebel against being forced to participate in it…just reading over the years about what happens over there becomes futile self inflicted stress.
Report thisBy Bobadi, April 23, 2008 at 5:08 pm #
Of course it will “never be sufficient for Israel” as Israel will never lift its boot from the neck of the Palestinians as long as we taxpayers in the US continue to send them our billions of dollars in support of their thuggery.
The Korean war never really ended, and both sides did not recognize the other, but there was a truce in which withdrawal to recognized borders was established, and the fighting stopped, and after many years of this they have just recently began to mend relations.
The fighting will not stop for Israel because Israel uses the excuse of “demanding recognition” by those it intolerably oppresses.
Lift your boot from Palestinian necks, and they may yet eventually forgive you, better yet; we in the states need to stop supplying those jack boots!
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, April 23, 2008 at 11:04 am #
Even Churchill said it: Jaw-jaw is always better than war-war.
Report thisBy Howard, April 23, 2008 at 9:33 am #
Former President Carter is quoted as saying, “Hamas will, in effect, recognize Israel, if the people agree on the plan.” But Khaled Meshal, the Hamas leader with whom Mr. Carter met, is quoted as saying, “Hamas will not recognize the state of Israel.”
These two remarks illustrate the biased nature of Mr. Carter’s perceptions fo the Arab-Israeli conflict. Mr. Carter fails to grasp its central issue: 60 years without an unequivocal statement from the Palestinians and the Arab world that Israel has a right to exist.
“In effect” may be good enough for Mr. Carter, but history has shown more than once that it can never be sufficient for Israel.
Report thisBy Ostrogoth, April 22, 2008 at 10:27 pm #
Howard appears on this forum periodically to blame Palestinian victims for being occupied, starved, collectively punished, ethnically cleansed, tortured, terrorized, and randomly murdered. Those like Howard, who defend and support these crimes against humanity, although not involved personally, are accomplices to these crimes, both morally and legally. For Howard and the Zionists, Palestinians are occupying territory belonging to God’s chosen people, and are therefore always the aggressors, deserving whatever punishment or atrocities Israelis decide to inflict on them.
Report thisBy Inherit The Wind, April 22, 2008 at 7:44 pm #
What you ALL ignore is that Jimmy Carter is the only one to recognize that you have to TALK if you want to avoid fighting. Talking may not avoid fighting, but not talking never will.
That’s what Carter sees. If he can touch the rational in Hamas and Syrian leaders, that’s half the battle. Then he needs to touch the rational in Israeli leaders.
It would be a bonus if he could touch the rational in American leaders but that cannot happen until 20 Jan 2009. Because there is nothing rational in George W. Bush or his regime.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 22, 2008 at 7:07 pm #
Wrong, Howard, Israeli tanks have repeatedly rolled into Gaza since the settlements were removed. They go in and out as they please. Gaza is the closing thing to the Warsaw Ghetto the 21st Century has seen.
Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 22, 2008 at 4:30 pm #
He says it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F583p_KZyGU
Report thisBy RAE, April 22, 2008 at 2:52 pm #
... and almost EVERYONE else in the present administration misses completely is…
YOU EITHER TALK OUT YOUR “PROBLEMS” OR YOU GO TO WAR. There’s no middle ground sustainable for very long.
Those who don’t understand that, with all it’s faults, COMMUNICATION beats NO COMMUNICATION, should never be allowed to even tour Congress let alone hold a seat there. They’re just too blind and stupid to be leading anybody.
Report thisBy Howard, April 22, 2008 at 2:00 pm #
RE: By Ernest Canning, April 22 at 9:01 am #
(1474 comments total)
==============================
Well, occupation is not occurring. Anyone else can help. Israel left Gaza 2 years ago ! As mentioned above nothing but rockets as a return on leaving. Without Israel they would be starving.
Finkelstein is not taken seriously by anyone for documenting anything.
Checkpoints are a necessity because of the suicide bombers who were walking through.
IDF goes out its way to NOT harm civilians who the terrorists hide amongst. Rockets and missles from Hamas go onto civilians on purpose.
Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 22, 2008 at 1:51 pm #
Howard, like a clock you can be depended on to blindly support Israel and even a broken clock is right once a day.
The Palestinian media isn’t helping matters any and should develop a more subdued tone in reporting Israeli misdeeds against it’s population.
While I am sympathetic to the Palestinian people I am concerned about Israeli misdeeds against the United States.
They are many.
Report thishttp://muhajabah.com/israel.htm
By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2008 at 1:14 pm #
TW,
Interest rates during Carter were market driven, now they are manipulated and artifically kept low.
The Republicans are smart enough to know this is the quickest way to get kicked out of office.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 22, 2008 at 1:01 pm #
By Ernest Canning, April 22 at 6:47 am #
(1474 comments total)
Yes Ernest - by your definition, there is no such thing as a terrorist group because every group can cite grievances of one kind or another (or manufacture them if need be). That kind of relativist thinking places no blame and levels the playing field for fear of having to take a side.
Once two sides engage in conflict, rules will be broken, innocent will die, and the relativists like yourself will no longer have a definition for right and wrong, even when it means condoning the actual targeting of civilians in the name of grievance.
Yet the simple fact remains: Hamas does not, and will not recognize Israel’s right to exist. That indisputable fact betrays Hamas’ true motivations which are not to seek peace, but to remove Israel from the ME.
Report thisBy Howard, April 22, 2008 at 9:47 am #
Israel left Gaza 2 years ago….completelly nothing but artillary shells since. Hamas has sent rockets and missles off from farms and the extensivee greenhouse grounds that Israelis left them. Makes you wonder if they should give more land back in the West bank.
No apartheid at all that has been touted. Thousands of Gazans worked in Israel; but Hamas now forbids it right out. Offers its citizens nothing…but misery. Any other country wants to help its people. Not this group running Gaza.
Even Egypt which is closest to them physically and culturally is refusing to take Gaza back which they had for decades before ‘67. Amazing. And Saudi Arabia and oil rich Arab countries don’t put up a dime to their subsistence. The Gazans have been on the UN ‘s dole for 40 years. Other Arab countries love it.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 22, 2008 at 9:25 am #
Tony, it would be nice if those inside the Obama campaign, like yourself, pressured him on single-payer. His current healthcare proposal may be his greatest weakness.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 22, 2008 at 9:01 am #
Howard, your post is a bit one-sided, don’t you think? It is disingenuous to point only to the shelling of Israeli villages while ignoring the brutality of Israel’s 41 year occupation, an occupation that has continued in direct violation of U.N. Resolution 242; an occupation in which Israelis have used U.S.-made bulldozers to demolish homes with both small children and elderly civilians trapped inside (not to mention the bulldozer that intentionally ran over Rachel Corey); an occupation which has seen the Israelis wall in and then starve the indigenous population of Gaza in a manner sadly reminiscent to what the Nazis did to the Jewish ghetto in Warsaw; an occupation in which Israeli aircraft have targeted apartment buildings in the hopes of killing one or two Fatah or Hamas fighters even though the buildings house hundreds of innocent civilians; an occupation that has made life nearly impossible for Palestinians who are sometimes stopped at checkpoints and prevented from traveling to hospitals even when they are dying; an occupation which, as documented by Prof. Norm Finkelstein in “Beyond Chutzpah” has included a calculated resort to torture by the IDF.
Yes it is terrible and deplorable when Palestinian fighters target Israeli civilians with their pitifully ineffective rockets or when suicide bombers target innocent civilians on Israeli buses. But that in no way lessons the impact of the brutality dished out by the Zionists who persist on this brutal apartheid occupation.
Many progressive Israelis and progressive Jewish Americans are fed up with the occupation and want to see its end. Only the end of the occupation and a recognition of the humanity of Palestinians, so long denied by the Zionist occupiers, will bring a just and lasting peace.
If you would take the ideological blinders off long enough to see past the dehumanizing fog of the racist Zionist propaganda, you might begin to see that efforts like the current one being made by President Carter provide the only real means to ending the vicious cycle of violence.
Report thisBy Howard, April 22, 2008 at 8:06 am #
What with the shelling of Israeli villages not having stopped for one day; and now they are attacking and killing at the one border crossing that delivers essentials to close it down to then be able to scream for humanitarian reasons its all unfair.
The Arab countries have not supported the Gazans with any economic, social, business, or educational help to the in 40 years. They want to keep them penned up and not come into their countries.
Meanwhile the mosques and schools print death to all Israel men, women and childresn and western citizens. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron hand; they could show how much they want to have peace in hours.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 22, 2008 at 6:47 am #
The fact that the Zionists, in violation of U.N. Resolution 242, continue to illegally and brutally occupy Gaza and the West Bank, no more negates the fact that there is a sovereign nation we call Palestine than does the illegal U.S. occupation of Iraq.
It’s all in how you apply the words you use, Marshall.
“Terrorist” is the label occupying powers always resort to whenever referring to the inevitable armed resistance of the irregular forces in an occupied territory who are forced to resort to guerrilla tactics against a vastly superior conventional force.
When Israelis in U.S.-made bulldozers mow down buildings with innocent children inside, when they drop cluster bombs specifically designed to target civilian populations, when they seal off and starve the civilians inside the Gaza strip as an act of collective punishment or when target apartment buildings knowing that 95% of the occupants are civilians, these are as much acts of terror as are those carried out by suicide bombers who target buses carrying Israeli civilians. War is terror.
If we are to look at the deeds rather than the formality of government, then the Israeli government must be regarded as a “terrorist organization.”
The label, “terrorist organization,” does nothing to break the cycle of violence. Only a recognition of the valid grievances of the Palestinian people and a much needed recognition of those Israelis who are fed up with the depravity of the occupation and want to live in peace and harmony with their Palestinian neighbors can do that. That is why Carter’s bold mission of peace is so important.
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, April 22, 2008 at 5:48 am #
PH,
As I recall, the “stagflation” with the high interest rates of the Carter years was caused by an OPEC embargo that raised the price of oil. I think we may be about to have another such period, maybe a lot worse than last time. Oil is $117 a barrell now. The dollar is plunging and inflation is ramping up.
Report thisBy bozhidar bob balkas, April 22, 2008 at 5:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
every ism i know of does some good acts but nazism and zionism do by far less good acts than nay other ism.
Report thiszionism and nazism are most bestial isms. these two isms turned some germans and jews into the worst butchers woman- and mankind had to face thus far.
nazism is nearly destroyed; zionism will also be destroyed.
there is no way the world will endure one the greatest enemies of us nonzionists.
By bozhidar bob balkas, April 22, 2008 at 5:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
every ism i know of does some good acts but nazism and zionism do by far less good acts than nay other ism.
Report thiszionism and nazism are most bestial isms. these two isms turned some germans and jews into the worst butchers woman- and mankind had to face thus far.
nazism is nearly destroyed; zionism will be also be destroyed.
there is no way the world will endure one the greatest enemies of us nonzionists.
By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2008 at 2:31 am #
I don’t think the Iran hostage event did as much to sink his presidency as 18% mortgage interest rates.
Americans directly relate their government with their pocketbooks.
I wonder who controlled those rates.
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, April 21, 2008 at 11:39 pm #
Fadel,
I have been spending most of my time on barackobama.com advocating the same views. Why don’t you get an account and join the Free Palestine group? I am currently posting to five groups including that one. I’m getting a lot of flak from pro-Israel people in the campaign. I have had my account deleted twice for this. They found my posts offensive and said they should not be posted on the Obama site because people would use them to smear Obama as anti-Semitic. My response was that there are indeed such people trying to smear Obama, but they are not Obama’s friends or ours, and we should stand up to them rather than be intimidated by them.
Report thisFor Obama to stand with Carter would be an act of courage which the American people would reward.
By Tony Wicher, April 21, 2008 at 11:03 pm #
I do not think the Israel lobby is really so powerful. Our politicians are so cowardly. The Lobby’s power consists in calling anyone who opposes it anti-Semitic, but this tactic is rapidly losing its effectiveness. It has gone to the well too often. Take Jimmy Carter. He has been around a long time. The American people have known him since 1976, more than thirty years. Everybody remembers him as a one-term president whose presidency was destroyed by the Iranian hostage affair. He was also the first president to formulate a universal human rights policy. He was also the mediator in the Camp David accords, the only peace ever negotiated between Israel and one of its neighbors, Egypt. Since then everybody knows he has had a very distinguished humanitarian career as an ex-president all these years. No American speaks with greater authority on the subject. Will Americans believe he is anti-Semitic?
Barack Obama could break the grip of the lobby by courageously embracing Carter and supporting his talks with instead of allowing himself to be pressured into distancing himself.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 21, 2008 at 9:07 pm #
TW: Unlike you, I did not support Obama from the outset. My first choice was Dennis Kucinich. Since Ralph Nader is really not a viable alternative, I am supporting Obama as I believe it critical that we avoid a Mad Dog McCain presidency above all else. I am hopeful that a President Obama will have to courage to do something that no sitting President has done—to act as an honest broker who could force the Israelis into a meaningful peace.
But before either you or I come down too hard on Obama, consider what President Carter had to say during his Sept. 10, 2007 interview on Democracy Now concerning his book, “Peace not Apartheid.”
“Americans don’t want to know and many Israelis don’t want to know what is going on inside Palestine. It’s a terrible human rights persecution that far transcends what any outsider would imagine. And there are powerful political forces in America that prevent any objective analysis of the problem in the Holy Land. I think it’s accurate to say that not a single member of Congress with whom I’m familiar would possibly speak out and call for Israel to withdraw to their legal boundaries or to publicize the plight of the Palestinians or even to call publicly and repeatedly for good faith peace talks. There hasn’t been a day of peace talks now in more than seven years. So this is a taboo subject. And I would say that if any member of Congress did speak out, as I’ve described, they would probably not be back in Congress the next term.”
Report thisBy Earl, April 21, 2008 at 7:42 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
More power to Jimmy Carter..in spite of the typical
Report thisattack he has to endure from the pro-Israel right,which
has no intentions to seek peace with Hamas,etc.Their
entire objective is for continuous chaos,the more…the better,because it`s the only way that will “keep them
afloat”. They are enjoying to have the stupid
gentile/american foces,etc. doing their dirty work… today against the Muslims,always playing one against the other…sitting back,while enjoying every minute of it.Today the Muslims…tomorrow the Christians !
Just see :http://www.kawther.info/wpr/terrorists
By Fadel Abdallah, April 21, 2008 at 7:14 pm #
Excellent comment Tony Wicher! I totally concur and I am pleased to see you back after some absence to continue your noble and much appreciated work for truth and justice.
All the best for the best!
Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 21, 2008 at 7:04 pm #
Excellent post Ostrogoth!
However, if Mashaal is proven to be mistaken, he is still a winner by proving to the world who is the true enemy of peace and who is the trouble-maker in that part of the world.
As for me to stand in the forming line to spit and to throw up on Sue Myrick, it would a pleasure to wait as long as it takes; the longer the wait the merrier!
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, April 21, 2008 at 6:48 pm #
I have been inside the Obama campaign strenuously advocating that Obama should warmly embrace Carter, not “distance himself”. Obama criticized Carter’s talk with Hamas last week according to Reuters:
PHILADELPHIA, April 16 (Reuters) - Democratic White House hopeful Barack Obama on Wednesday disagreed with former President Jimmy Carter’s overtures toward Hamas, saying he would not talk to the Islamist group until it recognized Israel and renounced terrorism.
The Illinois senator, campaigning in Pennsylvania which holds the next presidential voting contest on Tuesday, told a group of Jewish leaders he has an “unshakable commitment” to help protect Israel from its “bitter enemies.”
“That’s why I have a fundamental difference with President Carter and disagree with his decision to meet with Hamas,” Obama said. “We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel’s destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel’s right to exist and abide by past agreements.”
I am the biggest Obama supporter around, but he is going to have to do a lot better than this. Hamas is the democratically elected representative of the Palestinian people, as certified by the Carter Center and other credible international observers. I think he only makes statements like this because of enormous political pressure from the Israel lobby. Ahmed Yousef, senior advisor to Ismael Haniya, who has said he likes Obama, is the man who wrote the op-ed piece in the New York times “A Pause for Peace”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/01/opinion/01yousef.html
This offer was completely ignored by Israel and by Washington. This is what Obama ought to be pointing out while embracing the Carter mission, not criticizing it. If Obama really believes in talking to our so-called enemies, this is the perfect case for it. Obama should not allow himself to be intimidated by right-wing Zionists, Christian or Jewish, who are themselves racists and who are trying to tar him with the brush of “anti-Semitism”. It is these people themselves who are anti-Semites because they are anti-Arab, and Arabs are a Semitic people.
Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 21, 2008 at 6:44 pm #
In reference to a previous post I wrote “through up” in stead of “throw up”; sorry for the typo!
Report thisBy Paolo, April 21, 2008 at 6:37 pm #
As an unbiased observer who has no dog in the fight between Palestinians and Israelis, I can assure you that BOTH SIDES have committed atrocities. There really are legitimate Palestinian grievances that need to be addressed. This was Jimmy Carter’s reason for TALKING to HAMAS (which, by the way, is the legally-elected representative of the Palestinians in Gaza).
I continually hear both sides in effect saying, “Yeah, but those Palestinians did such-and-such,” or: “Those Israelis did such-and-such.” I have no doubt that most of these accusations are true.
What will solve the unsolvable problem? Both sides have to TALK. Jimmy Carter has shown unusual courage in trying to get people TALKING.
Report thisBy Ostrogoth, April 21, 2008 at 5:45 pm #
Fadel, I heard there’s a line forming to throw up on Sue Myrick. You’ll just have to wait your turn like the rest of us.
Report thisBy msgmi, April 21, 2008 at 5:40 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Lucky Luciano may have been a racketeer, but he had more smarts than most politicians. When it benefited him to make friends of enemies, he negotiated. When his enemies refused to negotiate, he exhibited patience. What made him successful, is that he kept his enemies closer to his vest than his friends. For that, his enemies respected him. Luciano was a racketeer, yet he had more common sense than most of our politicians, past and present.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 21, 2008 at 4:51 pm #
Rodney: Hamas is not the “enemy.” It is the duly elected representative of the Palestinians in Gaza. The “enemy” is everyone who believes that might makes right, be they Israeli Zionists, Christian or Muslim fundamentalists. Peace is the answer.
Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 21, 2008 at 4:42 pm #
“Sue Myrick [of North Carolina] went so far as to call for the former presidents passport to be revoked on Fox News.”
==================================
When I first read these words coming from Sue Myrick, I was overcome with a strong feeling to through up. This bitch, daughter of bitch, must be the ultimate fascist one can ever imagine. This so-called representative from damned North Carolina, is a disgrace for any system of government, let alone a democracy.
I always thought that the problem with America was with crude, chauvinist and cowardly men playing the macho thing, but to hear this from a woman is extremely troubling. Now I know there are also women political whores.
What I feel at this moment is that if I ever meet this bitch, I will first spit in her face, then I will throw up all over her to let her know what I think of her.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 21, 2008 at 4:42 pm #
Re: Re: NOT the Paris Hilton School of
“marshall, you are soooo smart! where did you go to school? i gotta know coz your posts blow me away! your attention to detail and semantics is astounding! did you get picked on a lot at school?”
My point was that the rules that apply to dialog between two sovereign countries do not apply to dialog between one sovereign country and a terrorist organization.
Report thisBy cann4ing, April 21, 2008 at 4:28 pm #
The only problem I have with Holland’s otherwise excellent article is the suggestion that the unscrupulous attacks on Carter have only come from right-wing Republicans. Hillary Clinton was quick to denounce this vital effort and Barack Obama sought to distance himself as well. It is a reflection of the undue influence of the combined forces of AIPAC and the Christian right on the American political process.
Fortunately, a group of Jewish progressives are seeking to change that. On April 16 Democracy Now reported:
”...a group of prominent Jewish liberals have formed a new lobbying group and political action committee they hope will be a counterpoint to AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. The new initiative will be called J Street. Part of its mission will be to push for an Arab-Israeli peace settlement. Democratic fundraiser Alan Solomont said, ‘We have heard the voices of neocons, and right-of-center Jewish leaders and Christian evangelicals, and the mainstream views of the American Jewish community have not been heard.’”
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/4/16/headlines
I am sure Holland’s piece, like all others that call into question the official Israeli line, will trigger a slew of anti-Arabic rants from the Zionist posters whose perceptions of all things Arab and Muslim have been so skewed by a process of racist dehumanization that they see a man of peace, like Carter, as their enemy.
For the rest of us, it is time to move past such virulent propaganda; to see that it is the Israeli occupation that is the source of the problem, and, considering the sensitivity of the subject, it is best that a progressive American Jewish group, like J Street, lead the way.
Report thisBy Ostrogoth, April 21, 2008 at 4:15 pm #
Cbsnews.com summarized Khaled Mashaal’s recent offer of implicit recognition of Israel as follows:
“Khaled Mashaal’s comments were one of the clearest outlines Hamas has given for what it would do if Israel withdrew from the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem, which it seized in 1967. He suggested Hamas would accept Israel’s existence alongside a Palestinian state on the rest of the lands Israel has held since 1948.”
Mashaal is mistaken if he thinks the Zionists will ever recognize a viable Palestinian state. Zionism is a unique, predatory theology/ideology based on racist supremacy and territorial expansion. Zionists, with a few exceptions, can’t be appeased or reasoned with. It’s simply against their religion.
While the past persecution of Jews should inspire compassion and solidarity in all of us, Zionist depredations in the ME should not. Fanatical religious sects like Zionism have a right not to assimilate with other cultures, but not a right to annihilate them.
Zionist theology, not Hamas intransigence, is the true deal-breaker.
Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 21, 2008 at 12:19 pm #
Palistine.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/mapstellstory.html
Report thisBy tyler, April 21, 2008 at 12:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
marshall, you are soooo smart! where did you go to school? i gotta know coz your posts blow me away! your attention to detail and semantics is astounding! did you get picked on a lot at school?
Report thisBy Ed, April 21, 2008 at 11:59 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I voted to give President Carter a second term in November of ‘80. Funny how it was the Iranian hostage crisis that helped sink the Carter presidency yet Carter has extended his hand to Iranian-sponsored Hamas.
Report thisBy cyrena, April 21, 2008 at 11:56 am #
Actually, THIS has been not so much the ‘deal breaker’ but the deal PREVENTER..
“Its an ideological construct that defies both common sense and the best practices that have been developed in the field of conflict resolutionbest practices that were borne of hard experience. What Carter seems to understand, and his detractors appear unable to grasp, is that there is absolutely no chance of establishing and implementing a peace agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians without offering Hamas a seat at the negotiating table.”
Marshall…your constant repetition about a Hamas committment to the destruction of Israel is bullshit. Rhetorical bullshit.
Period.
Report thisBy tyler, April 21, 2008 at 11:56 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I agree that carter should be applauded for his efforts, what he is trying to do is honorable and admirable. I do agree with some of the comments though that while the palestinians seem poised and ready to accept a peace agreement, isreal does not.
Those ridiculous republicans that are upset by his efforts should be ashamed, particularly those who call for the revokation of his passport. how ridiculous is that?
Report thisBy Crylee, April 21, 2008 at 11:43 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
>>Of course he failed to give any examples of military conflicts without innocent casualties, thereby rendering his statement meaningless<<
What a shameless piece of moral equivocation. By your “logic” all those cluster bomb submunitions that are still slowly but steadily killing people (mostly children) in southern Lebanon are just ‘collateral damage’.
And if you are going to contend that it is, then why won’t the Israelis hand over the schematic, showing where the cluster bombs have been fired? Could it be that these documents will clearly show that cluster bombs were placed in areas of high population in order to discourage (terrorize) the Lebanese people?
Your comment, besides being, well, pretty lame, is just not constructive. Both sides need to recognize their errors before progress can be made.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 21, 2008 at 10:19 am #
Hamas is not a sovereign country. There is no country of Palestine. Your point fails.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 21, 2008 at 10:17 am #
Any side that kills innocent people is guilty of terrorism, he told an audience at Cairos American University after his sit-down with members of Hamas.”
What a brilliant comment. Of course he failed to give any examples of military conflicts without innocent casualties, thereby rendering his statement meaningless since all sides in every conflict fit his definition of “terrorist”.
The prerequisite to any negotiation is that both sides acknowledge the other’s right to exist. This isn’t a “concession”, as the article states, but a given. Without this, there is no negotiation. You can talk your way around this all you want, but it doesn’t make it go away. Hamas is officially, and in writing, dedicated to the destruction of Israel. I’m afraid that is a deal breaker. Period.
And the author’s example of police legitimizing a “gun-toting lunatic whos barricaded himself in a house” is, well, really lame. The police’s goal is to arrest the guy and incarcerate him, not “negotiate” with him. By equating the Palestinians with the gun-toting lunatic, the author unwittingly makes the case for subduing and prosecuting Hamas… hey, maybe we agree after all!
Report thisBy WriterOnTheStorm, April 21, 2008 at 9:54 am #
Holland’s otherwise excellent piece fails to state the obvious conclusion: Israel in fact, does not want peace, at least not until it’s colonial project is complete.
In the current situation, Zionists are getting all the carrots while the Palestinians are getting all the sticks. Why should Israel change it’s course? The voices of moderate Israelis, who might favor a return to pre ‘67 borders, are denounced as unpatriotic by the Israel’s fanatical Zionist element. That same element has convinced American leaders, by conflating Palestinians with muslim terrorists, that their fight is America’s fight.
Meanwhile, lobbyists effectively make it impossible for our politicians to speak out against these tactics. Taken as a whole, one could admire the efficiency of the Israeli machine—provided, of course, that one has absolutely no morals.
Report thisBy rodney, April 21, 2008 at 9:40 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
You can’t make peace with your enemies if you don’t talk to them. Israel don’t want peace. they want apartheid and Jim Crow. All backed by the US Government. The US Jewish lobby, The US Jewish campaign contributions, the dual Israel and American citizenship with full voting rights.along with billions of US aid and weapons,all keep this unfair and unjust system in place. It’s the same way we upheld the South African Government in place and kept Nelson Mandela in jail for years. President Carter is the only US President to be fair and balanced and not cater to the Jewish community. For that he is labeled a anti-semite. Yet he is the only US President to broker a peace deal in the Middle East. The world and the US must listen and follow President Carter if a true and lasting peace will ever be achieved in the Middle East.
Report thisBy Blackspeare, April 21, 2008 at 7:11 am #
It is interesting that 30 years ago it was forbidden to speak with Yassir Arafat or the PLO because of a terroristic association. Now, here we are 30 years later with Hamas and its leaders associated with terrorism. I just love the way history repeats itself!
Report thisBy nrobi, April 21, 2008 at 7:04 am #
Yet another seemingly fool-proof plan, bit the dust, because of the intransigence of the Israeli and Palestinian sides of the conflict. The problem lies in the fact that neither side will appear to want to talk openly for fear of seeming weak and about to fold. President Carter, has taken the initiative and has started to open up the dialogue between the hawks of Israel and the “terrorists” of the duly elected government of Palestine, Hamas. The neo-conservative, ultra-right wing, Pro-Israeli Republicans have done nothing to further the cause of peace in the region, they have only backed themselves and the Israelis into a corner by stating that the parties to this conflict should not talk and are right to use force against the so-called terrorists of Hamas. How in the world is there to be any movement towards a lasting and reasonable peace, if the Israelis and Palestinians will not talk to each other? And with the interfering help of those Christian Zionists, who by backing Israel in this ongoing conflict, hope to further their own causes, lead Israel to believe that there is no other option than conflict, can we truly expect that peace will be an option in the region in the near future? Yet, the pundits, on the conservative side of the spectrum, rail against the efforts and fair-mindedness of a man who will not take sides other than to get each of them to the table to begin the process of communication and resolution of the conflict. President Carter is to be commended for his efforts on behalf of peace in this troubled region of the world, but instead of laudatory comments on the efforts he is expending at his own expense, he is treated like a common criminal and lambasted by the neo-conservative press as a shill for terrorists and worse branded a person that is not deserving of respect, even though all the efforts of the current administrations of both Israel and America have done nothing to further the process of peace. Come on, America, wake up and smell the manure of the neo-conservative line of bull%#^&, they are no more willing to talk than the “thinker” of Rodin can talk.
Report thisBy Larry Shapiro, April 21, 2008 at 7:00 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Several days ago, Hamas soldiers infiltrated the oil depot in Israel that gathers and distributes oil to the Gaza Strip. Two workers were killed. Since 2005, Kassam rockets have been launched at Ashkelon in Israel that contains the electrical power plant that supplies Gaza. Kassams have been launched against Sderot, also within Israel where workers who maintain the electrical grid live. So my question is this. When Hamas tries to destroy the oil depot and the electrical plant that supplies them and tries to kill the workers who service these utilities, how can any one say with a straight face that Israel is to blame for not providing better service. Where in the annals of history have warring countries supplied each other with goods and services particularly while one of the warring parties is trying to kill those who supply the services and destroy the services themselves. What kind of inverted morality propels people to hold Israel to such an impossible standard?
In 2005, Israel unilaterally evacuated the Gaza Strip hoping that this gesture would spur the Palestinians on to create a peaceful society. Private Jewish interests even bought a green house complex complete with sophisticated irrigation from the retreating Israelis to give the Gazans an industry that would provide hundreds of jobs. Almost immediately Palestinians destroyed the green houses and looted them for the pipe and other machinery.
Unfortunately for all, Palestinians saw the Israeli withdrawal as weakness on the part of Israel and identified the evacuation as a great victory for their forces. Accordingly, Hamas used the area close to Israel to launch rockets and mortars into Israel feeling that if Israel bowed to pressure in Gaza they would certainly abandon towns within Israel too.
The fact that Israel continues to supply anything to Gaza during war time is an act of the highest morality. To criticize it for not doing more is callous and smacks of some hidden, unpleasant bias.
Report thisBy babaloo, April 21, 2008 at 6:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
This Bush administration has been practicing the Paris Hilton School of Diplomacy. You have to pay Paris Hilton to show up at your nightclub, Miss Turkey, etc.
Since time immemorial, sovereign countries have sat down together without preconditions. But the prissy Bush admin is sooooo Speeeecial that they refuse to sit down without prepayment. Unbelievably stupid, lacking in any sense of history.
Report thisBy MackTN, April 21, 2008 at 6:06 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
American citizens should be proud to have this ex-president representing our country all over the world.
Of course, he bucks the cv of the current administration by trying to negotiate with troubled countries instead of ignoring them or bombing them.
I’m shocked at the fury of his detractors. I do believe they would rather kill people than talk to them.
Report thisBy JohannG, April 21, 2008 at 6:02 am #
The last two paragraphs summarize the obvious situation in the Middle East: Both sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict believe that a military solution is possible. Hamas says so openly while Israels leadership pretends to pursue diplomacy while creating facts on the ground that openly negate its diplomatic pretense. Carter understands that in order for the killing to stop diplomacy has to be given a chance. His efforts are admirable but probably in vain. As every week brings new atrocities committed by Israelis and Palestinians the gulf between these nations widens, requiring much more than the admirable efforts of the worlds most admired ex-President to overcome.
Report thisBy TDoff, April 21, 2008 at 5:56 am #
If there were any question as to whether Carter’s meeting with Hamas (the duly elected leaders of Palestine, by the way), it is only necessary to look at who opposes the meeting: The NeoConZionistas, and their puppets in the Bush administration.
If one needs a roadmap to a fair and just peace, all that’s necessary is to do the opposite of what AIPAC, AEI, and the Israelis want.
Report thisBy Sam, April 21, 2008 at 5:34 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Yes, our current “leaders” are all avoiding this subject like the plague. Only Ralph Nader has the guts to even bring this topic up. I didn’t vote for Jimmy in ‘80, but I would now. I mean it.
Report thisBy bozhidar bob balkas, April 21, 2008 at 5:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
carter is skirting basics. yes, a gazan who kills or tries to kill one, two or several civilians, may be called “terrorist”.
collectively killing thousands or millions (as in iraq) is by far greater terroristic.
he also skirts the principle (of necessary truth) that no land has the right to attack another under no known circumstance.
corrollary arising out the above postulate is that only people who do crime do time and not children, and other civilians.
from above premises, one may conclude that most euro-khazaro-jewish people are guilty of war crimes.
generalization that carter is making may tacitly be based on the principles i just nentioned but they need be voiced.
else few obsrvers will accept his generalization?
“both sides not fulflling their commitments”. this is yet another equation and genearalization that could mean anything. is carter suggesting that there’s an equilibrium of severity and number of crimes betwn them? thank u
Report thisBy Paolo, April 21, 2008 at 5:03 am #
It takes a lot of moral courage to stand up to the Israel lobby—ask Mearsheimer and Walt. It takes even more moral courage for a former president to stand up to the Lobby; after all, it’s so easy just to go along to get along. Jimmy Carter is now facing the full fury of the Lobby, with all their shills in the media, for having the audacity to SIT DOWN AND TALK with the other side. Given the shrillness of the attacks on him, you would think he just authorized an air raid on Tel Aviv.
I have often disagreed with Carter’s politics, but I have to admire his moral courage. It is such a rare quality among our top American “leaders.”
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