Ah…I should have read the second part of the crap before I responded to the first. I HAVE SEEN THIS ‘you must be an idiot’ stuff posted..VERBATIM, on multiple other blogs.

Guess who the idiot must be, if he actually thinks we’re fooled by this?

•  “Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.”
•  “As much as 30% of Obama’s primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.”
Now here we have an outright BLATANT TROLL…for sure a repug. He’s actually claiming that these republicans turned democrats ONLY FOR THE PRIMARIES, are voting for Obama, when it’s been DOCUMENTED in OHIO, TEXAS, and MISSISSIPPI, that the repugs have been casting their votes for HILLARY!! Because, even if they don’t get McCain, they know that Hillary would be the next best thing for the REPUGS!!

What a lying troll you are ‘jacksmith’ who of course is unregistered. No doubt if I visit ANY other progressive website/blog, I’ll see this same shit, verbatim.

Bravo Louise!! I’ve noted a few of these same things myself, but you do it better.

Your last paragraph is something I’ve noted as well, because I find it particularly ‘revealing’ of the troll behavior…

You write..

“Notice how few are reading or commenting on the other articles on this site..the ones that bare witness to the corruption of the republican policy.”

Oh yes…I’ve noted that myself. Matter of fact, they NEVER do, and we all know exactly who we’re talking about. Because, they’ve been assigned to this site by their repug team leaders, or in some cases, even Hillary’s slime/muck team leaders, because let’s face it, Hillary is the same as a repug.

Just earlier today, bert was called out for plagiarizing David Brooks, and then when Outraged posted some complete stuff by David Brooks, and attributed it to him, Joesixpack (who used to be Joe in Maine if you remember..hard to forget one of the republican trolls on this site) got all upset, and revealed himself by suggesting that David Brooks had ‘changed’ (presumably not an ‘improvement’ for joe6pak) because, he said that David Brooks used to be a lot more ‘conservative’. Interesting, eh?

And then after that, he just went back to his standard Obama bashing. As we’ve long noted, with the exception of bert, (who might actually be a democrat of the blue dog variety) none of the rest of them do much Hillary ‘cheering’, but rather the bulk of it is simply the bashing of Obama.

And, it brings me back to that chill that I got many months ago, when Driving Bear from Tennessee, mentioned that the republicans weren’t going to have to do anything except sit back and watch the democrats destroy each other.

So yeah, that’s been the plan all along. While Obama has been building a movement to bring all Americans back into the political process to correct our way, and in a progressive manner, the repugs have been planting trolls on all of the websites. Some are far more obvious than others, but the fact remains that they are trolls with ‘intent to destroy’ and they won’t give up…which means that they’ll play the standard tricks you’ve already outlined.

Obama did mention though, that he was prepared to contest any state’s contest, meaning (as I interpreted it in the context of the question he’d been asked) any state contest that reeked of this foul repuglican odor of the standard cheating techniques that are a staple to the repuglican party.

Anyway, since we know who they are, there’s no problem calling them out, each and every time. At least I don’t mind doing it.

Louise,

You sound bitter, and you should be.  We see the corruption coming from our fearless leaders, with top down momentum of a avalanche. If Hillary wins, she will dove tail into the Bush residue, and pick up were Bush left off without missing a beat, yes she has the experience.  She seems quite the warmonger, the blind acceptance of this war of lies permeates the disgusting so called non issue of ending the killing.  No we have to worry if someone is wearing a flag pen? 

Treating the people as ignorant serfs, may bite Hillary and her blind supporters on the face.

I was surprised by Texas, maybe Pennsylvania will surprise all of us?

Thanks for your excellent comments, all you really not republican people.

Actually Obama has been saying this, or a version of this for years.

When it wasn’t yet fashionable to make petty trivia more important than a collapsing economy, a collapsing military, torture, murder, rape, immoral war and an entire administration marching us into a Fascist society, nobody cared.

Like wise, Reverend Wright has said little different than every thinking religious leader in the twentieth and twenty first century. In fact, I find the babbling “white” politically connected, hard right preachers far more offensive. As does just about everyone.

Frankly I marvel at the Democrat candidates composure and self-restraint. They have long-since been degraded to the point where no-one would be surprised if they turned on mainstreammedia and asked, “Don’t you people care about anything important? What is this crap anyway? You are an insult to the voters and you are destroying the process!”

I think if there is one thing I liked about Reagan, that was it. He didn’t hesitate to call out and challenge mainstreammedia! Hopefully when Obama becomes president, he will follow that example. Probably one more reason they work so hard to discredit him. They’ve had far to long a ride on an elevated platform of praise they’ve never earned, and don’t deserve!

It’s nothing short of pathetic that we have allowed the hard right bigots who post on this site claiming to be Hillary supporters to control the debate. There is so much far more important stuff here, on this site, than petty crap portrayed as important by these misguided and misguiding repubs.

Republicans. Collectively as big a bunch of losers as has ever cast a shadow over this republic! 

There’s hardly a republican politician today who didn’t get where they are by devious means. Now some might call that winning. But when “winning” is so important that the only way you can do it is by altering voting districts, denying voters the right to register, denying voters the right to vote, closing polling places early, or opening them late. Filling up the polling place with machines that don’t work, or making sure there aren’t enough poll workers, or ballots to handle the volume. Losing boxes full of votes and manipulating the numbers of those that are counted. Using “Black Box” voting machines that can be altered, or fixed ... in other words, fixing the outcome, by any means necessary! That’s not winning, that’s the classic portrait of a LOSER!

Republicans.
They are losers.
One and all.

Of course they know that. They also know there is no way their candidate can win if honest people are involved in the voting process. That’s why they are HERE, and everywhere and that’s why mainstreammedia is working so hard to discredit if not out-right destroy the democrat candidates.

When enough mud is spread in the water, it becomes harder to see the bottom of the stream and easier to convince people they see something down there, that really isn’t there. And it becomes easier to convince people an election outcome is the result of that mud, and not the carefully ALTERED and FIXED results.

Since they KNOW they are losers. And since they KNOW if the election is left to an honest process their corruption will be proven true, it’s never to early to organize and begin their dirty work.

What we have all witnessed in the past few months, tearing down Hillary by slinging mud at Obama, with the outcome that they both look tainted, proves their real motives. But more important keeps us and mainstreammedia from focusing on the really ROTTEN stuff they and their leaders have done, and are doing to our society. And will continue to do ‘till everything collapses, if we let them!

Notice how few are reading or commenting on the other articles on this site. The ones that bare witness to the corruption of republican policy!

I never said you were one of Obama’s minion, which makes your entire post meaningless.

To suggest that growing up in a relatively poor workingclass community during one of the most contentious periods during the civil rights movement doesn’t give you any insights into the mindset of that community is…well….bizarre, to put it mildly. Far better, I suppose, to be “redneck” blue collar “by choice” - whatever that means.

Who knows more about Indian culture and mindset: an Indian who grows up on the reservation, gets into Harvard, and raises a family in Westchester? Or a hippy who chooses to live in a teepee?

We have problems right here in TD City.  Yes for some time now the racists and jingoists have crawled out from under their rocks to support the entitled one. For she has set the mood. 

Using bigotry to divide and conquer is such a simple task for the simple of mind, divisive hate is accepted and practiced with impunity.

Dear Fadel…

This is why I love you!!

Thank you so much for pointing out this GIGANTIC hypocrisy that allows the Pope to say the very same thing that Jeremiah Wright said (albeit 6 years ago when Rev Wright said it, and he spoke from living it) and somehow…it’s not at all controversial.

Imagine that?

And yep..MOST of us have been physically and mentally depressed for the past 7 years, and for others, it’s been a lifetime. A life time of poor or non-existent medical care, and a lifetime of ZERO opportunities to exist with dignity and a means of independantly caring for ourselves and our loved ones.

An excerpt from the article by Katrina vanden Heuvel that I posted earlier..

“..Barack Obama put it well when he spoke of how the two anchors of this evening’s debate (and so much of our elitist media & punditocracy) seem interested mainly in “manufactured issues”- Jeremiah Wright, dodging bullets in Tuzla, flag lapel pins and Bill Ayers- a major reason so many decent and generous Americans tune out this media.

  “Pain trickles up” is how Obama tonight described John McCain’s economic policies. That smart riff brought pain to Charles Gibson’s face. In a previous debate, Gibson, who must make a few million a year, made a class gaffe when he estimated that professors in a small New Hampshire college made close to $200,000. Laughter filled the hall that night. Americans of Main Street got a glimpse into a media that has far more friends on Wall Street.

  Tonight, Gibson seemed shocked when the two candidates spoke of raising taxes on the very richest in this country. He seemed far more concerned about the Democratic candidates’ proposal to raise the capital gains tax-and what he claimed would be the lost revenue- than the fact, as the New York Times’s Steven Greenhouse reports in his new must-read book, The Big Squeeze, that “since 1979, hourly earnings for 80 percent of American workers have risen by just 1, after inflation…[at a time when]the nation’s economic pie is growing, but corporations by and large have not given their workers a bigger piece.”

  A one percent raise in almost thirty years?

Still not bitter?”...

Yeah…we’re bitter. Depressed too.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041708B.shtml

BobZ…I have to disagree this rare time, as I don’t believe (and I think you’ll find that most others don’t either) that Obama should have kept his thoughts to himself. He’s running for the highest office in the land, and there was more than a ‘ring’ of truth to what he said, and what he continues to put forth. In short, he’s saying what we all need to hear, and some folks, (the status quo that has been benefiting from the exploitation of the rest of us for decades) would simply rather that it NOT be voiced.

Anyway…check out the articles attached. More truth…

An Open Letter to Charlie Gibson and George Stephanapoulos
  By Will Bunch
  The Philadelphia Daily News
  Thursday 17 April 2008

  Dear Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos,
  It’s hard to know where to begin with this, less than an hour after you signed off from your Democratic presidential debate here in my hometown of Philadelphia, a televised train wreck that my friend and colleague Greg Mitchell has already called, quite accurately, “a shameful night for the U.S. media.” It’s hard because - like many other Americans - I am still angry at what I just witnesses, so angry that it’s hard to even type accurately because my hands are shaking. Look, I know that “media criticism” - especially when it’s one journalist speaking to another - tends to be a genteel, colleagial thing, but there’s no genteel way to say this.

  With your performance tonight - your focus on issues that were at best trivial wastes of valuable airtime and at worst restatements of right-wing falsehoods, punctuated by inane “issue” questions that in no way resembled the real world concerns of American voters - you disgraced my profession of journalism, and, by association, me and a lot of hard-working colleagues who do still try to ferret out the truth, rather than worry about who can give us the best deal on our capital gains taxes. But it’s even worse than that. By so badly botching arguably the most critical debate of such an important election, in a time of both war and economic misery, you disgraced the American voters, and in fact even disgraced democracy itself. Indeed, if I were a citizen of one of those nations where America is seeking to “export democracy,” and I had watched the debate, I probably would have said, “no thank you.” Because that was no way to promote democracy.

Read the full piece at the link.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041708B.shtml

Here’s more from Katrina at the Nation (same link as above)

A Gotcha Debate ...
  By Katrina vanden Heuvel
  The Nation
  Wednesday 16 April 2008

  We’re into the 21st debate. We’ve been through fifteen months of this primary calendar or, as ABC’s Charles Gibson put it in introducing what may well be the last….we’re into “round 15.”

  These boys love their sports metaphors.

  But tonight it’s not those sports metaphors that have me throwing my Subway sandwich at the TV. It’s the relentless stream of “gotcha” questions that ABC’s top news commentators pose that have me angry, frustrated and, yes, bitter. Whether it’s George Stephanopolous pushing Obama and Clinton to make a “No New Taxes” pledge….(George-please reconnect with your inner self: the intelligent, humane guy who did good battle with Alan Greenspan and Bob Rubin in trying to stop them from putting profits before people)...Or Gibson making the leap of equating electability with Obama’s decision not to wear a flag pin? (Patriotism, as Obama explained, slowly, carefully, means ensuring that we take care of veterans who’ve served their country and done real patriotic duty.) These kinds of questions foreclose room for a full, real and honest debate about this country’s future, and its politics and policies at home and abroad.
 
Reference the link for the rest

Ok, so Obama should have kept his thoughts to himself, but as countless other have documented, what Obama said has the ring of truth. The Republican’s have been masters at feeding the middle class a series of wedge issues to obscure the fact that the Republican Party hasn’t done anything for them in decades. The Democrat’s have also to a large degree sold out to multinational corporations and failed to prevent massive outsourcing of jobs to other countries. Talk to many airline employees and you will see plenty of bitterness or those who work at Wal Mart who used to have good jobs in manufacturing. Does racism still exist among the middle class? Of course, although it is not fashionable to be a rascist anymore so it is hidden from polite society, but just look at the rampant racist comments on most blog sites. it makes you sick. What is funny and not much of this is, is that many of the pundits get all high and mighty about Obama stereotyping rural folks, yet they turn around and bash everyone living in San Francisco as being elitist. Talk about stereotypes.

Well Lee, if I knew how, I’d try to dig you out of that rut. But since being there seems to be more important to you than anything else, I guess the best thing is just to leave you there ... happy in your rut.

Actually Wright isn’t the only person who has suggested AIDS was created to eliminate the blacks in America. I know, some folks think that’s impossible, but consider this. When AIDS hit the scene we had very limited knowledge of DNA. Now we know we all have the same root DNA. So, if a virus was created gene specific, without considering root DNA, the potential for that virus eventually reaching everybody would be there. And I know some folks believe it is impossible to create anything that would attack anything gene specific. But isn’t that exactly what Monsanto does every day, hmmm?

And remember SARS. That mysterious virus that swept through Hong Kong a few years back and killed almost everyone that got it, and several people in Canada?Turns out every person who died from that was either Asian or Asian mix.

And, turns out a Nursing Home in Canada was hit by the virus. Fears were high the entire population of that facility were at risk of dieing. But following a couple of days of flue-like illness, they all got better. Yes, it was the SARS virus. And no, not one person in that facility was Asian or Asian mix.

But that is a subject for another debate. Certainly no reason to hate someone.

[Except maybe those chemical companies who might be doing those evil things. Experimenting with human life. Actually, maybe that’s why Kelly was suicided. Kinda reminds me of Nazi Germany. Whatever happened to all those former Nazi scientists we brought over here to work for the government anyway?]

I think your real problem is you have a real problem with non-whites. But you are not alone. And we allow you have the right to your prejudice and ... your rut.

Good luck. You may need it. Sometimes it rains, and ruts can turn into sink-holes. Be careful. Wouldn’t want to lose sight of you.

Oh, and yes, character and honesty are essential ...
Which is why it’s a darn shame so many would rather focus on someone other than, anything other than the candidates and the REAL issues. But as they say, different strokes for different folks.

Well, here’s the so-called holy white Pope, lecturing white America about the damned atrocities committed against the Native Americans and Black Americans. Yet he is doing this upon an invitation from his ideological comrade Bush who gave him a monarch-like treatment and reception. Is this more than what Bush bargained for?!

Compare this to what made the news few weeks ago about Rev. J. Wright’s comments on the same issues, with all the racially charged reaction to it, and you will have the classical example of hypocrisy, split vision and double standards the white media and politicians always display.
I want to see some son of b..ch making big news of comparing and contrasting the Pope’s words with those of the courageous Rev. J. Wright, and to put for us in perspective who has more right to speak about these issues: Rev. Wright who lived the pains of these atrocities or the Pope who only read about them from books?!

Do we know who said, “I doubt, therefore I exist.?

Well, I am saying now, “I am bitter, therefore I am human with natural feelings.”

I’ve been in “depression”- both mentally and physically- for over seven years now, therefore I am bitter about the conditions that led to this and against those who caused it. To be bitter about unhealthy socio-political conditions is a sign of healthy reaction.

Here again, the ugly pair McCain and Clinton, were deadly wrong and out of touch when they referred to Obama’s usage of the word “depressed” in reference to the working class of Pennsylvania. Another failure on their part to understand human nature and to call a spade a spade!

“Did it ever occur to you that maybe folks who don’t like to hear America damned also do not want someone who supports damning America by word, deed, or association to be theur President and would shun their help.”

-By bert, April 17 at 12:27 pm
______________________

It occurred to me, but I don’t care, for the following two reasons:

1. Reverend Wright was denouncing persecution of blacks by the US government. If you find that objectionable, too bad. Americans need to be reminded of their government’s de jure, institutionalized persecution of blacks whenever they start posturing about democracy and freedom in the US.

2. Obama has made it clear he doesn’t support everything Reverend Wright says. Who supports everything anybody says? Failed smear by association. Too bad again.

Wright’s sermons are a non-issue among rational individuals, but Obama’s candidacy is already bringing the racists and jingoists out of the woodwork. Unfortunately this country is still crawling with them.

RE: LOUISE

Louise,

I can appreciate a lot of what you had to say, however at the end of your posting, you tried to trivialize the importance of Obama’s relationship with Jeremiah Wright ... and as you put it:
“There really is more important stuff in the world than whether or not Obama’s preacher lost his temper once”
First of all, Wright did not just loose his temper once ... (nice try), he stated that the U.S. government created AIDS in order to exterminate the black race in America ... Wright went with Louis Farakan to visit Kadafi in Libya ... Wright gave a life time achievement award to the nasty racist, Louis Farakan ... and, both Obama and Wright swore allegience to the racist “Black Values System”.  You and other Obama supporters can continue to trivialize this, even though Obama launched his Presidential campaign as the uniter, who is above the racial divide, but this is a very important matter that goes directly to the character and honesty of he who could be the next President of the United States. In my opinion, 20 years of someone’s actual actions means much, much more than a few eloquent speechs and mere vocal denials from Obama. And, as important as the ‘issues’ are ... if you can’t trust someone, who cares what they say their position on the issues is? Many millions of Americans do not feel that Obama has even begun to provide an acceptable explanation of why he stayed with Wright for 20 years, or why he pledged allegience to the “Black Values System” ... and, these are ligitimate concerns, whether or not Obama gave one or two speeches (with a weak explanation or not). I guarantee you, this concern will not simply go away, no matter how much you keep trying to divert attention away from it.

I WANT A PRESIDENT WHO REPRESENTS ALL AMERICANS

Here is Pastor Wright’s ‘Black Value System’
posted at his website. This is what Barak Obama
pledged an oath to for the past 20 years:
http://www.tucc.org/black_value_system.html

Pastor Wright gave Louis Farakan a life time
achievement award. Here is what Louis Farakan believes:
Posted at his own website.
http://www.noi.org/muslim_program.htm

AMERICANS JUDGE FOR YOURSELVES ...

Once again we are blessed with the wisdom of mainstreammedia telling us how we feel and how we will react. My goodness, whatever would we do without Marie? Since us “white” folks are completely incapable of understanding what makes us angry!

Take my family for example. Quite a few “white” folks there. Some go to church, some never do. Some are military some never have been. Some go hunting on a regular basis and some never do. Some have guns. Some don’t. Some make a lot of money, some struggle every month. Some worry about sending their kids to college. Some don’t. Some understand terror, having been held up, or mugged. And some worry about terror knowing family that has been held up or mugged. But there are a few absolutes they all agree on!

THEY ARE ALL REALLY ANGRY!

That’s what happens when you feel powerless to stop the creeping FASCISM that is represented by the Bush administration.

Now maybe from the comfort of her insular world Marie thinks she has a grasp on the reality of rural folks in Pennsylvania, and middle class folks in Northern California. I really hate to pop her bubble, but she hasn’t got a clue. Or maybe she has but has to try and re-focus the masses on trivia, because that’s what her corporate masters have ordered. If that’s the case then the article means even less ... if such a thing is possible. Please, someone tell Marie, the masses moved on past that clap-trap trivia weeks ago. The fact that she doesn’t know that kinda diminishes the whole writing. Besides, how can Marie be expected to know anything about the “working” class? Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

And for those of you who seem, like Marie, quite incapable of moving from the trivial to the important, all I can say is inform yourselves folks. There really is more important stuff in the world than whether or not Obama’s preacher lost his temper once, or Hillary forgot what she did in Bosnia. My gosh, if you really care about the future of this country get some of that REALLY IMPORTANT stuff out there!

And while I’m at it, did any of you who watched last night’s “debate” hear any questions asked about the following?

Documents Obtained By ACLU Describe Charges Of Murder And Torture Of Prisoners In U.S. Custody
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m43132&hd;=&size=1&l=e

Top Neocon Calls For Destruction Of Constitution
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=8315

300,000 vets have mental problem, 320,000 had brain injuries
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/300_000_vets_have_mental_problem_32_04172008.html

And if THIS doesn’t get to you, there really is no hope!

DoD announces that the Israeli flag will now be draped over American coffins
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6445

So it isn’t enough our sons and daughters are being sacrificed on the alter of Bush/Neocon greed!
No they are being sacrificed for ISRAEL!!!
Now I’m REALLY Angry!

First, i’m not an Obama minion.  Second, i’m rednecked blue collar…and by choice.  So “these” people are me people.  Third, i’m not stupid enough to vote for a Democrat or a Republican for President.

I’m saying that growing up in a working class community doesn’t count for shit as far as insight goes.  Insight into the working class comes from dirt under your fingernails and a sore back.  I don’t give a fuck who it is…if you don’t make your living by the sweat of your brow you don’t have a thing to say about it. 

Ms. Cocco is just as much an elitist as John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama…and apparently you too.  Any of them could have respect for the working class, but none of them do…because none of them have ever worked for a living.

Every white person in this country is descended from immigrants who came here to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their children.  So what?

If you want insight into the working class communities of America, maybe you should ask the working class…rather than relying on “insights” from someone who sits at a desk all day.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe folks who don’t like to hear America damned also do not want someone who supports damning America by word, deed, or association to be theur President and would shun their help.

Plus people who need jobs don’t need more endless discussions or empty slogams of help. They need and want someone who can get legislation through Congress.

But Cocco’s piece is not about workers and what they need. It is a piece about Obama’s true character and whether or not he harbors feelings of superiority over them. She was esploring Obama’s words to see if she could find the answer. And she did.

Just keep holding your breath till you get what you want. Bet it dodn’t work as a child either.

I read, listen to and watch many different sources of media coverage, news, opinion and actually read government reports. The Politico is one of my weekly stops. Perhaps it is you who needs to learn.

The most damning part of your whole commentary here is you rarely ever discuss issues, and use the majority of your energy to enforce and try to validate media talking points of skeptical worth.

Chewbacca Defense? Haha, didn’t notice that at first.

Bert, Reverend Wright’s comments on 9/11 and Obama’s “bitterness” remarks are “irrelevant to the argument at hand,” which is: Who will help American workers more? Mrs. NAFTA fast track/corporate lawyer/corporate lobby shill or Obama? Cocco and other MSM elitists spin and hype bogus issues to sidetrack any serious discussion of problems that really affect voters’ welfare.

So many words, Aegrus, to just say you don’t want to learn anyhting new. Isn’t that the defintion of stupid.

I’m going to continue to remind you and everyone else that, unless it is some really obscure piece with validated facts, posting links to blogs or articles where people are giving opinions to support your opinion is shamelessly devoid of meaning or worth. All it does is help support the argument that you don’t think for yourself, and only repeat other people’s opinions as your own. It’s in poor taste, and shows poor judgment.

The General election season is not even here yet. But that won’t stop a Republican Congressional candidate from attacking Obama in the primary election.

According to Politico’s Jonathan Martin,  “A Republican candidate running to succeed retiring Rep. John Peterson in a central Pennsylvania House seat is using Barack Obama’s ‘bitter’ comments in a mail piece.”

You can view the mailer at this link as well as read more about it.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0408/Penn_congressional_candidate_uses_bitter_in_mail_piece.html

Its only just begun………………

Nope…more than just two of us see this Leefeller.

Marie has been doing this for a while now. She just keeps getting worse. I’m with wordsonfire…she’s enough to make a person wanna throw up, and NOT just black folks either. I’m talking about ANYBODY smart enough to know the reality of what white skin priviliage entails.

That’s what’s so disgusting about Marie and some of the posters here. They actually think of themselves as progressive white folks, when in fact they aren’t at all. I know far too many progressive white folks, (including my own relatives) and believe me, we’ve LIVED the very real difference our entire lives.

Like the times we’ve been ‘house hunting’ way back in the day, when my parents considered a move to the ‘burbs. (everybody else was doing it). And yeah, it came to be SOP that even us kids picked up on immediately. Daddy would go in first, just to check out the general specifics, and if it seemed like something that might work for us, we’d all pile in, and the price would go up about $10,000 on the spot.

(Ya know they were pissed that he hadn’t mentioned the wife and at least one of the kids was ‘colored’)

When my sister peed on herself in kindergarten, the school nurse called the house and asked my mom to bring her a dry pair of underware. Mama said she’d be right there, and when she got there, the nurse was all upset, and told my mother, Well, I thought her (my sister) mother was going to be coming here. I spoke to her, and she said she would be coming herself, because obviously the child is upset at this mishap.

My mother was like, and WHO do you think I AM? (I guess the school nurse thought mama was the maid or the nanny or something).

Nothing’s changed.

Wait..that is not fair. Much actually has. There are actually some white folks that really DO get the picture. Just not enough of them, and especially the old farts.

Thanks, tdbach. Both of your posts on this thread are intelligent, thoughtful, and balanced responses to both Cocco and all the posts here. It is good to have someone on TD who writes so well and is insightful as well.

Well, Purple Girl, at least now I know what your other post was all about. Sorry you feel so bitter.

I agree that Cocco doesn’t do justice to Wright. The more I hear of and from him, the more I like him. In fact, I think Obama, for all his elquence about race in his response to the Wright issue, actually didn’t defend his pastor nearly strongly enough. In fact, he dismissed what he was saying as a sort of echo of some distant past. Wright (and you) got it right. It still isn’t a level playing field for whites and people of color. And Wright wasn’t being “hateful”, he was being appropriately demanding.

But Cocco’s theme is still valid. Whatever progress we’ve made, as liberals, in trying to level that playing field, has been disproportionately at the expense of working-class whites. Whether it’s bussing, affirmative action, or whatever. And the architects and advocates for these policies have been white intellectuals far removed from the communities they are telling to make these sacrifices. It doesn’t matter if it was the right thing to do (and it was); what matters is how they FELT in the process. They felt like pawns in an elitist game, and their objections were dismissed as the protests of uneducated bigots. No one likes to be stuffed into a convenient, unflattering box. Not a black professional woman like you. Not a white white-collar guy like me. And especially not anyone who still suffers the bruises of a prior box-stuffing.

Wordsonfire…

“...Why are her words less offensive . . . saying we look down our “snotty noses,” and seemingly happy that Hick whipped up resentment for those who opposed busing…”

Her words are NOT less offensive…they’re MORE offensive, and it IS amazing that she can even write this stuff and have it published on this site.

She hasn’t always been this obvious in her own apparent racism, but at some point in time, it always comes out.

Meantime, thanks for the other excellent essay as well. You couldn’t be more correct, and specifically about the cutting off of their noses to spite their faces…all to keep ‘the other’ from getting anything.

Does your Republican acquaintance ‘get that’ by now, (paying TONS more to educate his kids now, even at a state institution?) Usually, they don’t even realize that they’ve kicked their own selves in the ass.

And yeah, this article gave me a headache too. I think I’ll go plant a shrub or something.

You write         “...take up the real issues, instead of perpetuating bogus red herrings like those contained in Cocco’s article.”

DEFINITION: Red herring/Chewbacca Defense: Presenting data or issues that, while compelling, are irrelevant to the argument at hand, and then claiming that it validates the argument.

Ostrogoth - using the definition of red herring above, please point out to me the red herrings Ms Cocco uses in this Op-Ed piece.

I don’t see any red herrings. She simply offers her opinions about Obama and some of his recent words.

Honestly, I can’t imagine Cocco being allowed to do anything but to design propaganda. It’s disgusting how she misconstrues and finds hidden racism in everything Barack says. But, hey, Obama did his job by putting the spotlight on this dormant racism we all thought we were passed. Shows the importance of his candidacy again.

You’ve taken his words out of context, tdbach. It never seemed elitist to me, and I am working class. Additionally, many upon many others in blue-collar jobs feel similarly that they are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

While I’ll not deny you have to be elite these days to run for president, including all candidates, I’ll say Hillary’s discussion about second amendments and her pandering by taking a shot of crown royal and having a beer while saying she went duck hunting is far more elitist-attitude than what could maybe, possibly, thinly be portrayed as the “smacking of elitism” of Obama’s words.

Please, at least acknowledge the fact Hillary is pandering in an elitist fashion.

I’m tired of having to worry about hurting white people’s feelings . . .The data from Robert Putnam out of Oxford last year indicates that the “tipping” number still stands . . .whenever a community becomes 7% “other,” whatever that other is . .. the community silos off and begins ceasing to see a shared future or community. 

You can say white people aren’t bitter and they just want smaller government . . . but the data doesn’t support this viewpoint, however comforting and self-serving this fig leaf may be . . . As long as communities of color were largely barred from benefiting from the governmental entitlements provided to whites, whites weren’t so keen to make the government smaller.  But, this whole “government is the problem not the solution” meme in the 80s was very much designed to capture those people who felt angry and bitter because some “other” was wasting his or her tax dollars.  And, by “wasting” I mean realizing any value or benefit from said tax dollars . .. that was the lever that made it all work . . .  Without that specific dog whistle whites would have never bought into it . . .

I have bridges falling down in my state . . . On of the reasons I chose to move to Minnesota in 96 was because it was a high tax/high service state . . . but I was one of the people who helped push the state over the 7% of color line and every year since that year, the individuals in my state have voted to decrease its investment in the common good.  There’s lots of talk now about how people should be able to spend their own money . . . last time I checked I have no more ability to build a road, a public library, a school, a sewer system or to guard the public health than I did in the 90s before the state became over 7% of other and the my white neighbors also saw they couldn’t do those things either and thought it was a good idea for WE THE PEOPLE to do those things . . but now there are Somalis and Ethiopians and Latinos driving over those roads and maybe I can do more with my cash than invest it in the common good . . . There is a direct correlation between the number of “others” in a community and the communities’ will/desire to collective good and to invest/pay taxes for said common good . . .

So the white person who cuts of their own nose to defund “others” ends up having less money personally . . .  A good example, I have a friend who is republican . . . he does’t think of himself as a bigot, but based on numerous conversations with him I know that he really doesn’t understand much about how public policy has impacted people of color . . . he is one of those “I want to keep my own money,” so he votes for a tax cut that puts $400 back in his pocket, but this year he is having to pay for state education for his child that has risen so much that its $20,000 a year now, when just 5 or 6 years ago it was 10,000 . . . so that $400 tax cut over the next four years will cost him personally untold thousands (he realized $$1600 and paid out $40,000) . . . there are many examples just like that . . .

The government isn’t shrinking . . . and guess why? . .. it’s not really possible to have a sophisticated, advanced, civilized state without a large government aparatus . . .  Those who study governments and large systems recognize this . . . so the only purpose of the small government meme is about whipping up fear and distrust of the other to ensure that the government is defunded for all . . . but we didn’t get small government under Reagan or Bush I or II, because an advanced state needs a serious government . . . .

My head . . .it hurts . . . Am I actually reading these words?

“But what of those he says cling to “antipathy to people who aren’t like them”? The word for such people is racist, and Obama knows it.”

No, Obama doesn’t know it and neither do I and so does Marie know it in her erstwhile paragraph:

“They raged at the way privileged whites—the judges and the Harvard professors and the liberals who watched the rancor on television from the comfort of their suburban living rooms, looked down their snooty noses at them. Hicks, the matriarch of the anti-busing movement, capitalized on this resentment as much as she capitalized on racism.”  Would that be some of that antipathy to others that isn’t called racism?

Why are her words less offensive . . . saying we look down our “snotty noses,” and seemingly happy that Hick whipped up resentment for those who opposed busing . . . I mean if we supported busing we must be snotty . . .

I remember watching the images of little black kids having bricks thrown at them in Boston at the end of the 60s—I was 8 . . . I’m sorry those who opposed integration . . .and remember busing was attempt at actually integrating our country . . . how dare we try to live up to the ideals of our constitution . . .  I was the only black kid in an all white town . . . we had bricks thrown in our windows and the school board attemped to keep me out of the school, because my one little body would ruin the entire school . . .

How dare we know that schools that were segregated for kids of color would never be resourced and given the same treatment as schools for whites.  How dare we elitists (those who believe that the elite should running everything).  I’m elite enough to know that “elitist” is a complete mis-attribution BTW.  But again false offense at the word “bitter,” with no recognition of the offensive calling us all “elitist.”  AMAZING!

There are a lot of elites (and Barrack and Hillary are both elites) who are not elitist, and there are a lot of well-educated desk-jockey non-elites who are elitist. It’s an attitude, not a background. And I’m not suggesting that Obama is an elitist, only that shit like he said in SF smacks of elitism. And hey, if you’re happy to embrace what he said and how he said it, great. Go for it! Just don’t expect a lot of folks you’re describing as bitter gun-toting, God-fearing bigots to join your parade.

I disagree this time Aegrus, though I usually agree with you.

But, you’re far too mild with your assessment of Ms. Cocco. She would be far more comfortable at Faux Fox, or even as a KKK historian, trying to put a ‘good light’ on that organization. Seriously, even the MSNBC has sunk this low, or the NYT either for that matter. The Washington Post has been screwing up for years, aside from the occasional investigative report. But even they haven’t gotten this far down in such obvious bias.

And yeah, Marie has been sinking all along, but she’s hit the bottom of the swamp now, kind of staying neck and neck with her idol.

I was thinking as I watched the so-called debates after the fact, with the analysis and all, that Obama is finally gonna have to fight fire with fire. Hillary has sunk way below the swamp line at this point, and he’s STILL not taking advantage of any of the many attempts to call her on the worst of it, and the most obvious.

And, I really do understand his points and motivations, besides the fact that he has maintained to change the long course of negative politics as usual. Because he’s far too classy for that, and some people honestly cannot be corrupted. Most voters, or at least those who envision a future, as opposed to grasping for the past, know that as well. Still, enough is enough. He’s gonna have to fire back.

So, it’s time to start dragging out all of Hillary’s baggage. The same baggage that she tried to get a handle on, by admitting it herself. HA! Talk about somebody getting an easy ride. Even her foes from way back avoided using all of the dirt when hubs was running, but she’s pushed the envelope at this point. So, even if Obama himself doesn’t bring it out, it’s gonna come out, and it might as well be NOW, rather than when she has to face the firing squad of the repugs, at which point it will be too late for all of us.

She likes to claim that they both have this ‘baggage’ but that hers has already been exposed. I think NOT! And, if Obama really had anything to BE ‘exposed’ we wouldn’t have these so-called journalists, in the alternate as well as the main stream media, who are STILL making an issue out of this comment, (this very truthful one), and STILL trying to keep the comments of Jeremiah Wright, (made 6 years ago –ALSO truthful) in the ‘spotlight’ of Barack Obama.

The thing that Wright said about 9/11 has been said by hundreds of other experts, including the 9/11 Commission, despite the fact that it (the commission) was a whitewash. Regardless, we ALL know what Wright was saying. If the scholars call it ‘blowback’ or if the politicians call it something else, and the clergy call it something else again, (chickens come home to roost) we ALL know what it means. It means that the US, at least the past several decades of leaders of the US, have incurred the wrath of the rest of the world, based on our Imperialism and HUBRIS in insisting on global domination via military force. We have 700 military bases spread throughout the country, and if ANY journalist is too arrogant or ignorant to interpret that for what it means to the rest of the world, and the countries where we have imposed our force, then there’s no hope for them.

Meantime, Obama should simply address the obvious tricks by Hillary and her cheerleaders. For instance, maybe he should have asked the voters of Pennsylvania directly, if they REALLY CARED about Hillary being a sharp shooter, or if they cared more about their lost jobs. In reality, this whole semantics thing is what is ‘elitist’ and I suspect that folks who are economically depressed don’t much give a shit about whether or not he used the word ‘bitter’ as opposed to just plain pissed off.

tdbach, spare us the stupidity of calling the man who actually is self-made instead of the Goldwater daughter a condescending elitist. Are we going to rehash a speech made weeks ago? Are you out of ammo already?

How anyone can construe Hillary Clinton’s rhetoric as straight-on-politicking is pretty flimsy on the details. Barack continues to be the only candidate running in either major party talking about realities.

Do you realize this argument you’re making sounds like,(and ultimately adds up to) “Obama’s too smart. We can’t trust ‘professional analysis’ because its bullshit eggheads think up in their laboratories and government meetings.” Your anti-intelligence campaign is pretty friggin transparent now. Welcome to the Neo-Conservative Doctrine.

Marie Cocco is really a credit to the New York Times and Mainstream Media on a whole isn’t she? Represents these institutions well. Hurrumph

I’ve discovered I really find this woman Marie Cocco to be really icky . . . when I read her words I find myself almost throwing up in my mouth.  As a person of color in the United States I’m so darn tired of the hateful rants about the Hateful Rants of Reverend Wright.  If Marie turned her attention at all to the conditions that caused the “Hateful’ rant, she might be able to grow a little patch of empathy, or actually make me believe she has one bit of understanding or care about people of color.

It’s amazing to me how entitled she feels in calling Wright “hateful” or “anti-American.”  Are those rants less nasty a thing to write about someone than to say US of KKK?  I mean these two sentences are enough to wipe out all of his positive attributes and actions and to make her call him HATEFUL and ANTI-AMERICAN.  Her position is Exhibit A of white entitlement.

Am I the only one seeing the dark and sad irony here.  That the ferver and upset whipped up over these sentences . . . those who feel upset feel a need to keep bringing it up again . ..  but what was IT?  One speech that had no ability to make anyone earn less money, treat you less well, make you less safe and look at the continued hand-wringing and upset . . . I find it really shockingly self-involved and not remotely self-reflective . . . But hey . .. whites don’t get any benefit from being white other than getting to set the parameters of the dialogue of what is acceptable and not in speech.

Marie is so busy wrapping herself in her grandparents virtue and not remotely reflecting on the ways that her grandparents actually benefited from their white skin (say being able to participate in Social Security that was barred to 90 percent folks of color or being able to buy a home at preferred financing because they could live in an all white neighborhood and benefit from the greatest gift to the middle class, the ability to build equity in a home that was likewise denied to most blacks in this country).

It so sucks with not being able to get a free pass on actual entitlements that benefited white citizens.  I have five white brothers (I’m adopted).  They all walk around talking about how they never have benefited from being white. . . But I as their sister knows they have . . . I have seen both the big ways and little ways they’ve benefited . . . that is not to say that they also haven’t worked hard, etc., but let’s be real here . . . the new deal, which largely improved the middle class lot in life for immigrants, etc. was designed to largely exclude blacks . . .

Go read Whitewashing Race . . . It is a peer-reviewed, well researched primer on the ways that just working class whites benefited from governmental action.  So, whether these grandchildren of white immigrants want to admit it, they had entitlements . . . We just don’t like to hurt their little whitle feelings by suggesting that they didn’t do it all on their own.  But, here’s the thing . . . much of what we do, comes from being able to use resources provided by the community, roads, schools, parks, sewers, public health improvements, etc.

Only the fascists running the corporate political parties and the MSM care about Reverend Wright or Obama’s “bitterness” remark. These latest manifestations of class warfare being waged by the elitist US news media against Obama and the working classes are SOP for American political character assassination, aka “swift-boating.” Working people aren’t upset about Reverend Wright’s comments on 9/11 or whether Obama thinks they’re bitter. Those who hold real jobs in this country care about decent pay, job security, and health care: issues that Clinton, McCain, and the MSM don’t give a damn about, except when they pay lip service to them while supporting NAFTA and fast track. The MSM should be talking about NAFTA, fast track, GATT, and the globalization of poverty, but they won’t, because the MSM will always promote their own reactionary interests and agenda. So it’s up to alternative news media like truthdig to take up the real issues, instead of perpetuating bogus red herrings like those contained in Cocco’s article.

Not that Obama sincerely advocates the interests of working people. But he is perceptibly less reactionary and elitist than the other two candidates, and that’s reason enough for the MSM pharisees to crucify him.

She does seem to talk down, but now their are only two of us that see this. If, just if the blue collar workers are not as a whole as Cocco states, we may see Obama kick some butt, I will not hold my breath though.

Need for humble pie seems to be in order, bigots will never accept Obama because he is black, he should be in the back of the bus anyway in their minds.

Obama could have played the political card according to the standard operation and procedure, those who like to buy and sell politicians, are not comfortable with Obama, because he has not sold his soul to the highest bidder, but he may just be behind the other two in that regard.

I was surprised Obama did as well as he did in Texas,  isn’t that a blue collar state?  We may find the same thing happening in Pennsylvania?  The media has been playing the left hand against the right hand, only because they love this kind of stuff.

‘bitter’ does not do justice to what this MI’er feels. that’s mild. what offended me was Hillary’s condescending speech regarding those of Us who still have an speck of Hope left in US, the to patronize US like the Plantation Mistress regarding our ability to take a beating and still get up.
Hell Guns & god is all the Inc’s and their gov’t operative s(Red & Blue) have been unable to pry from our cold dead hands.
She’s not just a surrogte for the Cheney Doctrine, shes’ ‘The Devil in the Blue Dress’- Dick in Drag

Are you really this dense? Or are you just blowing smoke up the collective, virtual ass of TD? Cocco doesn’t claim to be working class. She’s saying she has some insight into working class communities because she grew up in one. Is that really so hard to understand?

Her message is spot on, too, which may be why you’re assaulting her on an irrelevant front. To college-educated white-collar liberals, Obama’s professorial analysis may be a welcome - even celebrated - change from Bush’s inane speeches and Clinton’s straight-on politicking, but to working-class Americans there’s more that a whiff of condescension in it.

If Obama and his minion are as smart as they think they are, they’d better heed her warning.  Treat and speak to these people in aloof and condescending terms at your political peril.

”as far as they’re concerned…” is indeed a strange qualifier.  But it should be noted that Sen Obama was talking about white people of immigrant stock, not the immigrants.

Ms. Cocco argues against the qualifier by telling the story of her grandparents…not her own.  People on these boards have propped up their blue collar bonafides by talking about what their parents did for a living, but not what they have done.

I’m impressed with Ms. Cocco’s grandparents.  However, i have to wonder why Ms. Cocco does not include a story about the truth she’s discovered on her way to a shitty job in some factory or another.

This is what Obama meant: that people assume the trials and tribulations of their parents and grandparents to be their own.  Of course Ms. Cocco knows what it’s like to wake up before dawn and slave away in a shoe factory…because her grandparents did it.  She’s pulling herself up by someone else’s bootstraps vicariously.

Her father plowed snow to “hand” her opportunities that he didn’t have.  The real question is, has she done the same sort of thing to give her children opportunities that she didn’t have?  Or is it actually that, as far as she’s concerned, she’s just as self-sacrificing and hard-working as her grand-parents…because they were?