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May 22, 2013
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 Road to NowherePosted on Apr 10, 2008WASHINGTON—The problem with the debate over our future course in Iraq is that the two sides are not even talking about the same things. For supporters of the war, the primary issue is Iraq itself and what happens if we leave. For the war’s opponents, the focus is on how the conflict in Iraq is sapping our energies, weakening our military and diverting our attention from our other interests in the world. The bottom line of the testimony this week from Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker is that even after the surge, what gains have been made in Iraq are, as Petraeus put it, “fragile and reversible.” For the administration’s friends, this can only mean that we need to stay the course. President Bush endorsed that approach Thursday, meaning that 140,000 or so troops will still be in Iraq when he leaves office. But the administration’s critics (and even some of its sympathizers) see the current policy as the equivalent of constructing a very expensive road, under hazardous conditions, even though those building it can’t explain exactly where the road will lead. The road becomes an end in itself. The point is to keep building it in the hope that it will eventually arrive at some lovely destination. Such a project can go on only for so long before someone points out the obvious, which is what Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., did during the hearings: “I think people want a sense of what the end is going to look like.” Advertisement The administration and its supporters talk incessantly about winning but offer no strategy for victory, no definition of what it would look like, no concrete steps to get us there, and no real sense of where “there” is. John McCain gamely declared that “success is within reach.” But what success does he have in mind? He still holds to the old dream of “a peaceful, stable, prosperous democratic state.” But how that can happen, or when, is anybody’s guess. A conflict between Sunnis and Shiites has been replaced by a conflict among Shiites—and there is no guarantee that the old Sunni-Shiite fights will not flare up again. Is that success? Iran has used our invasion to expand its influence in Iraq. Is that success? Here is Petraeus’ memorable and candid account of where we stand: “We haven’t turned any corners, we haven’t seen any lights at the end of the tunnel. The champagne bottle has been pushed to the back of the refrigerator.” Tell me again: What does success look like? Supporters of the war say its opponents are locked in the past, stuck on whether or not the war was a good idea in the first place. Whether the war was right or wrong, they say, it’s time to move on and focus on the future. This has it backward. It’s the war’s backers and architects, including the president, who are trapped in the past. They are so invested in the original decision to invade Iraq that they won’t even consider whether the United States would be better off winding down this commitment, relieving our military of the war’s enormous burdens and redirecting our foreign policy. Instead, they want to push on, hoping that something turns up. They resemble their own parody of liberal do-gooders insisting on continuing flawed and foolish programs no matter how obvious it becomes that their efforts are doing more harm than good. If this year’s election is to be about the future, the debate cannot be over whether or not the surge “worked.” McCain will have to provide a more specific and realistic definition of success. He will need to be much clearer than he has been as to how it would be achieved and when. Above all, he needs to tell us why an indefinite occupation of Iraq is worth the price. And it will fall to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to argue persuasively that ending our obsession with Iraq is in fact the first step toward restoring American power. There was a certain pathos in Bush’s speech Thursday as he made the usual promises, the usual optimistic noises and the usual resolute sounds about a war he never expected to go this badly. Iraq has become everything for Bush. That is no reason why it should be everything for the rest of us.  TAGS:
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Another Memorial Day in This Endless War
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By samosamo, April 15, 2008 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment
Well, this is an apt discription of the CIA’s term ‘blowback’ except now adays a good bit of it is not secret to the American public. And from now on, any attack from a foreign terrorist will be considered blowback, but it will really be just a criminal act and should be treated as such. Being held secret is a key in the ability to falsely justify retaliation in the guise of a war on terrorism. Actually, I don’t think it has to be secret since the idea of free trade is a reason to go in and stir up a hornet’s nest of resentment in other countries just to steal their natural resources and when the people in the invading country benefits from lower prices and higher profits, they pretty much don’t give a rat’s ass about how they are able to do so well in what is probably a false economy such as the one we live in here in america.
Report thisI still say that a book by Mike Davis titled ‘Victorian Holocausts’ would explain some more reason’s for blowback including one of nature’s gift to the people—El Nino.
By bozhidar bob balkas, April 15, 2008 at 7:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
reply to villageelder.
Report thiseven tho i have finished last in my class, i was able to espy that US had always been semifascist state.
however, it is even past fascist now. perhaps oligarchic/plutocratic/psychopatic or ruled with an irongrip by about 5 million amers. this may explain, why people are not disappearing, faling outa windows, or mysteriously dying. i’m taking a guess about the numbers of people who rule ‘rica, costa rica, and house of horrors (world) i’m hoping amers would enlighten me about what or who is the ruling class. i also know some of the methods (they are really ancient)in crowd control. hey folks we are either with us or against us. we who are against the madnees are now palestinians but still here.
By cyrena, April 14, 2008 at 9:15 pm Link to this comment
We might have remembered this on 9.11. It is why our support of the tyranny in Saudi Arabia prompted 15 proudly zealous, religious, and chauvinistic Saudis to act that day.
Well, there has YET to be any documented PROOF (including the 9/11 commission) that these 15 or 19 or however many young men were directly involved in the events of that day, but I will accept that it certainly should not have been a SURPRISE, given the other acts of revenge to which the US has been subjected. Specifically; the bombing of the USS Cole when it was illegally docked at Yemen, not to mention the bombings of the American Embassies in Africa. Yes, the US military is absolutely EVERYWHERE it is not invited to be.
As for the supported of the tyrannical monarchy of Saudi Arabia, that support goes back decades, and the Clintons, (including Hillary) are as much associated with the Saudi Royals as the Bush Dynasty is. Theyre ALL from the same caste, and if anybody thinks that Hillary of all people is going to bring any justice or accountability to the evil deeds of the regimes of the past 4 decades, I can only agree with Leefeller that it is wishful thinking at best, and pure delusion at worst.
The bottom line is that they will absolutely protect each other, because they always have.
Report thisBy Leefeller, April 13, 2008 at 11:31 am Link to this comment
Here, Here nrobi,
Kuckinich did seem to speak the truth, and those of us who oppose war, value and support his conscience, but we knew it was never to be, for the elite the wealthy are the ones pulling the strings in our plutocracy.
My frustration and disappointments were during the debates none of the other candidates supported Kucinich on his lonely stand against the war, except Gravel, seems they should have gotten together, alas egos must never allow such things to happen.
Wave the flag and smile, for that is our only play in the matter at hand.
Report thisBy nrobi, April 13, 2008 at 10:35 am Link to this comment
In the past I have spoken out against the tragic and immoral invasion of a sovereign country. It is now time to expand our discourse and look to the future and vote for the candidate of conscience, one that will take us out of the quagmire that is Iraq without anymore of our brave young men and women dying for a cause that has only lined the pockets of those who are connected to the most corrupt and egregiously immoral administration that this country has ever seen. All this has happened because a few “Christian” people decided that they should involve themselves in the political system by swaying the vote towards a man that is truly demented and cannot be dissuaded from a course of action that has lowered the view of America in the world. I, will vote for the one man who has truly voiced the thoughts and opinions of my conscience, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich. He alone has consistently voted against the war and the continued funding of this abomination. Our cry, should be no more war, No more blood for oil, No more of the secrecy and lessening of the rights of the people under the guise of security. We cannot stand any longer to have our Constitutional Rights trampled and taken away by presidential signing statements. This administration has governed by presidential fiat, enough already. Not Again!
Report thisBy Leefeller, April 13, 2008 at 7:58 am Link to this comment
My opinion, is you are dabbling in wishful thinking, but I must congratulate you for providing a positive support Hillary post, we do not see those very often.
Report thisBy Conservative Yankee, April 13, 2008 at 6:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
A ‘revolution” led by the likes of Hill-the-business-shill?
Let’s examine that:
Hillary says she will appoint “Read my lips” man and Prevaricator Bill as “roving” (is that a relation of Karl?) ambassadors.
“Former President Bill Clinton said Monday that the first thing his wife Hillary will do when she reaches the White House is dispatch him and his predecessor, President George H.W. Bush, on an around-the-world mission to repair the damage done to America’s reputation by the current president”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/18/bill-clinton-bush-sr-wil_n_77243.htm
So the continuation of the continuing continuum is very important to this “revolutionary?
She and Hubby made 100 Million dollars over the past three years, most of it from Bill’s self-appointed ambassador status in support of total and unregulated free (but not fair) trade. According to his tax records he gets about 800K per engagement for selling out the very Pennsylvania voters the business shill courts with her “down in mill housing” rhetoric.
Our “rebel leader” is taking campaign contributions from the insurance industry, Big Pharma, Petroleum, and Citi-Group the bank behind the sub-prime mortgage crisis.
As for dealing with “terrorists” As a 2000 Senate candidate she advocated the pardon for FALN terrorists who placed 86 bombs in and around New York City. One placed in the historic Fraunces Tavern in Lower Manhattan. The bomb decapitated one of the four people killed and injured another 60. One person was killed in a bombing at the Mobil Oil building, 150 East 42nd Street. The F.A.L.N. claimed responsibility. So I guess we see how the business shill would deal with terrorists… It would depend on what’s expedient.
Hill is a tool of establishment forces. She is self-serving and has an aggrandized view of her importance and accomplishments.
Her Campaign slogan should be:
Elect ME and have one less registered lobbyist to rob you.
Report thisBy MilwGonzo, April 13, 2008 at 5:35 am Link to this comment
Conservative Yankee wrote: “Obama shot himself in the foot stick a fork in him hes done.”
Not! He’s the only candidate with the courage to say what needs to be said. Once Clinton is history and it’s Obama vs. McCain, we can focus on how the future will look with Obama leading the change. Adios John McCain, enjoy your retirement.
Report thisBy MilwGonzo, April 13, 2008 at 5:30 am Link to this comment
It seems as though we blindly refer to McCain as a “hero.” Is he a hero because he was in Vietnam, was a POW and survived? Is he a hero because someone called him a hero a long time ago and the moniker stuck? What defines a hero in America these days? Do you have to be in the military to be a hero? Like the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the term seems to have become relatively meaningless.
Report thisBy amilius, April 12, 2008 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
One does not disenfranchise a people in their own land without inviting consequence to one’s own land.
We might have remembered this on 9.11. It is why our support of the tyranny in Saudi Arabia prompted 15 proudly zealous, religious, and chauvinistic Saudis to act that day.
Instead, our leaders have chosen to be judged as they have judged, be condemned as they have condemned. Bush the Lesser and his accomplices invite instructive consequences that generations of Americans will bear if these men are not prosecuted as the war criminals they are. None of the consequences of our ungracious actions are unintended. They are all instructive. They remind us that more gracious choices were missed in the taking every step of the way. Generations of Americans will endure the consequences of the choices of Bush the Lesser, unless choose responsibility and prosecute those culpable for criminal deceptions.
You know, gang, the only potential candidate with the determination to see that this will be done is Hillary Clinton.
Report thisShe learned the lesson of the consequences of her husband not pursuing the Iran-Contra crimes. She knows she was lied to in order to get support for powers she never imagined the president would exercise. She will do something about it.
By cyrena, April 12, 2008 at 3:30 am Link to this comment
We shouldn’t be holding kangaroo courts for alleged ‘terrorists’ at Guantanamo Bay either, but that’s what these criminals are doing.
Not to worry though. We WILL get these REAL criminals, and we’ll lock them up under the Bay at Guantanamo.
Never mind the waterboarding for them. They’ll just be permanently housed UNDER the Bay. They can search for oil down there, and try to sell it to each other as the ‘prize’ in Georgies favorite board game of “World Domination”.
Too bad they won’t be able to fish for their food, but they’ve managed to ruin that privilege as well. Guess they’ll just have to survive off of whatever oil and rocks they can eat.
Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 11, 2008 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment
“WE should be conducting Prosecutions for High Crimes.”
========================================
Well said Purple Girl! Ideally speaking, especially in this so much bragged-about-democracy, we should not be allowing the political-military establishment to hold hearing about false hopes of victory or about further false justifications for continuing this quagmire.
Since the war was conceived and executed on false immoral premises and mass deception, it must become, by necessity, a way to continued disaster and quagmire, for one can only reap that which he saws. Furthermore, to continue to utter “stay the course” evil slogan is certainly a road to the abyss of self-destruction. Therefore, though I agree with the essence of this article, I consider its title “Road to Nowhere” as a misnomer. For indeed the road the war-mongers are leading our sad country to is a road to the abyss of self-destruction.
Therefore, ideally speaking, as you put it, we the people should be “conducting Prosecutions for High Crimes” against humanity. And the political-military gang conducting in Washington DC these hearing should be themselves the target of these prosecutions.
Report thisBy Leefeller, April 11, 2008 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment
So far on this post the Hillary supporters have not surfaced. When it came down to Obama vs Hillary they were there is waves and caucused the posting. Seems the war is a non issue for the Hillary crowd, Obama has shown his hand to be of the same mold and bomb bomb McCain, yep Bush in overdrive. Yes all hand picked for us by our esteemed elite the wealthy and their fat pocketbooks getting fatter. Protect those interests you need to feather your nest eggs, the Plutocracy, some of us know what is wrong with this picture.
Report thisBy VillageElder, April 11, 2008 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment
It’s the Chenay Doctrine: If there is a 1% chance that some one might attack, thinking about attacking or we think they might be thinking about attacking it is the prez’s duty to preemptively attack.
Report thisBy Conservative Yankee, April 11, 2008 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Well, now all we have is war candidates left.. Obama shot himself in the foot… stick a fork in him he’s done… so we have Hill-the-business-shill, and GI Joe as realistic possibilities.
Can we begin talking about a re do now???
Report thisBy DennisD, April 11, 2008 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
By Paul_GA, April 11 at 6:48 am
I agree 110% - I’ll be writing in Ron Paul. We can either vote for real change or vote for someone that will talk about it.
Report thisBy TheRealFish, April 11, 2008 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment
“In some capacity, were morally obligated to stay and to pay.”
Mr. Swearingen, at some levels that is very true. We broke it, and all that.
However, how does the stay and pay obligation square up with things such as yesterday, the very day Dubbya made his latest Iraq speech, Iraqi Prime Minister Malicki (sp?) suggested *for the second time* in the last year that the US should withdraw?
Or the fact that many Sunnis we’ve been paying to not kill our soldiers (and whom we have been arming for the past year) have clearly stated that if the money stops or they don’t get included in the Malicki government or there are no more AQI to snuff, they will turn their weapons back on our soldiers?
Or the fact that, after *Iran* brokered the cessation of fighting between the Shi’ite factions in Basra last week that many of those Shi’a immediately turned their weapons on our troops?
Regardless whether we stumbled in and broke it, we are the occupiers. They do not want us there (except maybe the Sunnis, so we catch the shells and IEDs instead of them).
If we can not put Humpty together again, I personally feel our moral obligation is to our all-volunteer troops, our economy, the fact we still need to chase down the true bad guys in Afghanistan/Pakistan and our security infrastructure within our own borders.
Report thisBy Thomas Billis, April 11, 2008 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment
EJ they are not talking about the same thing because one side is in a mental institution yelling I am Caeser and the other side wnats to have some rationality.EJ you are old enough to remember Vietnam.History has proven those against Viet Nam correct and history will prove those who want to get out of Iraq correct.The problem is until we are getting out of Iraq by pulling people off of the embassy roof in Baghdad more kids will be killed or maimed.If you do not agree with this analaogy ask the British of their experiences in the middle east.
Report thisBy GB, April 11, 2008 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
The Iraq war is exactly like a home invasion gone bad with theft and murder. The scale in Iraq is at a humanitarian level not seen since the Vietnam War, another corporate venture started on false fear and huge profits. Pelosi has been saying we need a new direction since 2006 and what has she done?. Absolutely nothing. Our troops continue to perish for Bush’s lies and murderous idiots like Blackwater get their contracts renewed. I really hope the good people of San Francisco vote her out of office in November.
Report thisBy Worth Swearingen, April 11, 2008 at 9:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
For the supporters of the war, the primary interest is whether Iraq conforms to our vision of the Middle East. That position is no less about us than the that of crowd who’d leave because we’re pooped out. We have invaded a sovereign nation and the debate five years later is about what’s good for us. No one in the punditry is asking what we owe because we were wrong to invade. In some capacity, we’re morally obligated to stay and to pay.
Report thisBy Paul_GA, April 11, 2008 at 7:48 am Link to this comment
See why I’m either going to write in Ron Paul, or vote Libertarian? As for the Repubs and Demos—-A PLAGUE ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES!!!
Report thisBy bozhidar bob balkas, April 11, 2008 at 6:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
politicians and generals are talking about their perceptions, conclusions, tactical errors/successes; in short about the peripheral issues and not fundamentals: apodictic principle that no land has the right to attack another; no collective punishment for crimes by indivduals; the end goal, which can be inferred, etc.
Report thiswe can educe from what hasn’t been said that US governing class (not hobos, housewives, workers) will wage wars on mere perceptions, lies, halftruths, conclusions, etc. evendione skirts fundmentals. thank you
By Leefeller, April 11, 2008 at 6:16 am Link to this comment
As most wars the war in Iraq is a war sponsored by opportunists, money to be had, to fill special interests coffers with loot, where oh where has all the money gone? Swiss bank accounts? Bush and friends? The dead and dyeing never count in war, for the the ones who sponsor war never have been on the front lines of one.
McCain may be a war hero to some, to me he is like Bush, born with a silver spoon up his ass. The troops kicking in the doors are the ones who are going to be a real load on our Veterans Hospitals, not the flying aces. Hot shot McCain is a hero, only in the minds of warmongers.
As I call it, the sadness that is US.
Report thisBy Conservative Yankee, April 11, 2008 at 5:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Sen. George Aiken once said about Vietnam,
“Declare victory and pull out.”
Sounds like a plan!
Report thisBy Purple Girl, April 11, 2008 at 5:06 am Link to this comment
Just commented- then enirely kicked off the Internet.my local connection lost- I’m on High speed cable!
This war was never about AmericaNs interests it’s about the Inc’s and their oppressive foreign sponsors interest. Aghanistan was the foot in the door, Iraq the other foot, then Iran for the Booty!
Anyone who still has a memory KNOWS we wanted out of that region in the ‘70’s- oil Crisis, Hostages & hi jackings.
Who is responsible for 9/11- these Oil entities who Refused to follow the AmericaN Priciples of Democracy- We told them - they ignored US and thus placed US in harms way.
This War is a Land Grab, nothing AmericaN about this- It’s profiteers, New World Order Doctrine. control the resources, control humanity.
We shouldn’t be conducting a War - WE should be conducting Prosecutions for High Crimes
As for those ‘monitoring’ you’d better start building more Prisons, AmericaNs are no longer in Shock and are ready to level the Playing field agaisnt those in the’Shadows’
Cave Adsum
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