This needed saying and you said it extremely well. Thank you.

Dear Nabih Ammari,
Salaam wa-Tahiyyah!

I read your previous message directed to me and I reciprocate with the words of appreciation and “Shukran jazeelan!”

As to this phony who calls himself “Inherit the wind” he is one full of hot air, therefore it is more fitting for him to be called “Inherit the hot air.”

I hope that his types would not discourage you to keep contributing your insightful posts! And remember the Arabic proverb which says, “Kullu ‘inaa’in bi ma fiihi yandah,” which roughly translates as, “Each earthen pot oozes the fluid it contains.” You have knowledge, facts and wisdom to share and ITW has hot air to emit. And this the situation you get in a free speech setting; some are warriors for the truth and others are enemies of the truth and warriors for falsehood.

He did more than Bush or Cheney

“This was spoken by a man who served in the 101st Airborne. “

I think the word “served” is stretching it; “remanded” would be more accurate.  He was in less than a year as an alternative to jail, saw no combat, and was discharged for being a sub-par soldier.  If you’re looking for credibility for your post, I’d leave Hendrix out of it.

Having got out of the USMC in 1983 after serving 2 - 4 year active tours as an 0231/0241/0211, I can safely say that if jimmyjam and gomerspile are representative of the current makeup of the U.S. military, we as a nation are truely fucked.

I do think they are wannabees as they lack discretion, valor and the BITEDICKJEDJL traits of good soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. 

Its been 25 years and it seems like yesterday.

Please tell me about the code of conduct? and your intelligence analyst experience (radio-man), then tell people why the intel you guys get from the field is not good enough to pass on. You must have went to the same school as me,or your spell checker is broken. It must be the failure of Edjumacation.

Unlike Cyrena, I think you have no idea what you are talking about.  Neither of these events brought down the SU anymore than Reagan’s pumping up the arms race.

The Soviet Union was brought down by the internal contradiction of Marxism:  Work is done as a slave, and sustenance is grudging charity.  There’s no incentive to do better--you’ll just get assigned more work. But there’s LOTS of incentive to come up with “needs” athat have to be fulfilled at your brother’s expense.

Dear Nabih,

I know this was directed to Professor Abdullah, but I just wanted to say that I would like to have you as my next door neighbor as well, and especially with the coffee. (maybe we can sneak some in from across the way)

Thanks...this means much.

jimmyjam,

Your full of shit.

I have to remove myself from this place for a few minutes,My x team member gomerspile, was told by you that being in the military was him just sucking on the corporate welfare thing, back soon for a complete reply.

“The Soviets killed themselves through dysfunction and corruption.”

Funny, that’s what I said.  The dysfunction and corruption of a state run socioeconomic system which spent itself into the ground trying to unsuccessfully (thanks to U.S. and NATO) extend its regional dominance.  Afghanistan was the Soviet’s Waterloo with the U.S. and facilitated its collapse from within.  There’s no question that containment worked; it prevented a nuclear conflict and it resulted in the collapse of the USSR.

Funny you’d bring up Korea - the “identical twins separated at birth” political experiment that illustrates the misguided fundamentals of a Stalinist dictatorship (as if history’s other examples weren’t enough) that sits next door to a thriving democracy.  I can only imagine that what you’re pointing out was how unfortunate it was that the U.S. chose to allow the establishment of such a malformed socioeconomic system in the North.

Perhaps the U.S. does spend too much on its military.  Perhaps it doesn’t.  The numbers (3.5% of GDP) aren’t terrifying.  Under Clinton, it was 3%, but many feel that our military fell into relative disrepair during that time.

“The Soviets killed themselves through dysfunction and corruption.”

Funny, that’s what I said.  The dysfunction and corruption of a state run economy which spent itself into the ground by trying to extend its dominance too far, and trying to outdo the west.  The Soviet reach was greater than its grasp given the corrupt inefficiency of a doomed political system.  Afghanistan was the Soviet’s Waterloo and facilitated the collapse from within.  There’s no question that containment worked; it prevented a nuclear conflict and it resulted in the collapse of the USSR.

Funny you’d bring up Korea - the “identical twins separated at birth” political experiment that illustrates the misguided fundamentals of a Stalinist dictatorship (as if history’s other examples weren’t enough) that sits next door to a thriving democracy.  I can only imagine that what you’re pointing out was how unfortunate it was that the U.S. chose to allow the establishment of such a malformed socioeconomic system in the North.

Perhaps the U.S. does spend too much on its military.  Perhaps it doesn’t.  The numbers (3.5% of GDP) aren’t terrifying.  Under Clinton, it was 3%, but many feel that our military fell into relative disrepair during that time.

Part 1

No jimmyjam

Stop lying and bearing this false witness against me, because I have NOT said you were a piece of shit, not more and not less.

I also have not known, (maybe because I’ve not paid attention) that you were a member of the military.

The only thing that I ‘picked up’ from your posts, is that you appear to know a great deal about WEAPONS. So yes, that would be an indication (at least to many) that you might have served in the military. It is only THIS message that confirms it, and this is the very first post that I’ve seen from you, suggesting that you are NOW in the military.

I have indicated on this site before, that I have many, many immediate and extended family members who have served in the US military over the past 5 decades. I have and continued to SUPPORT THEM ALL. Additionally, I CONTINUE to volunteer my own time and limited resources to current members of the military TO THIS DAY. The current generation of troops has been overwhelmingly disrespected by the cowards (the current political regime of gangsters in DC and at the Pentagon) by putting them/you in harms way; NOT to protect and defend the US or our Constitution, but to steal resources from the sovereign lands of other nation states, and to establish CONTROL BY AGGRESSIVE FORCE, on a global scale. In other words, and to put it bluntly because I know no other way…our troops are being USED as mercenaries and intentionally put in harms way to further the greed of those who have made the orders to PUT them in harms way.

Just under 2 years ago, I lost yet another member of my extended family to this operation of aggressive greed. She was young, vibrant, smart and full of spirit. She finished at the top of her class at West Point, and she was dead from a roadside bomb in Iraq less than 3 months later. Now can you tell us why she died THAT way? Her family members believe that she died ‘protecting us from our ENEMIES.” Is that what YOU believe? Yes, I know that is what you have been brainwashed to believe, but have you tried to really follow it through, to ask the hard questions, and to understand WHY it is that ANY of you are thousands of miles from home, allegedly ‘defending’ us against ‘enemies’? Do you really believe that the millions of innocent Iraqis that have died from US military might, (bombs from the air) were ever our ENEMIES?

Are you familiar with Ehren Watada? He is a military hero in my book, because he dared to stand on integrity and uphold the missions and morals and HONOR that all of our troops deserve..each and every single member of the US military. He knew that his OATH was to the Constitution, and he took the time to learn what that oath was about, and refused to serve in an illegal and unjust aggressive war. He agreed to serve in Afghanistan, and on the front lines, because he believed that to be a legal and operation, based on the International Laws and the rules of war. He knew that Iraq was NOT. And yes, he too, did his duty, and was treated as a political prisoner by his own country, as a result.

TBC

Part 2

Moving along. I’m sick of the whiney statements from you and your ‘sponsors’ or agitators accusing me of anything in this extremely tortured logic….

• “while someone like myself, a very proud member of that machine, which Cyrena herself has said I was more or less like a piece of shit, because I have been in for so long, and why because my opinion was not the same as hers, so if you are military as far as Cyrena is concerned, you suck if you dont think like her..”

It is totally irrational for you or anyone else to continue ranting against me, for supposedly somehow marginalizing you, or for not “thinking like me.”
Try to follow that Jimmyjam, and see if you can even understand how stupid that sounds.

First, I don’t even KNOW you. I did NOT know that you were a ‘proud member of the military machine’ until now, and the most I’ve been able to pick up from your troubling posts is that you are apparently very troubled yourself, and crying out for some sort of ‘help’ in the only way that you know how.

The PROBLEM is that because I don’t know you, or even knew anything about your military status, I am PERSONALLY powerless to do anything about it! And railing against me (anonymously) on a public forum like this board, serves absolutely NO benefit to you. It is NOT ‘required’ that you or anyone else ‘think like me’ or ‘agree’ with my own opinions, or any other opinions here.

What you’ve done here, is to single ME out as your whipping post, and attack ME – by name, in your railings against the world at large, and in your obviously traumatized mental capacity.

So let me tell you this jimmyjam, because it is the ONLY help that I can singularly offer to you, under the limited circumstances of a public forum.
GET YOURSELF TO A VA Hospital or other facility, and do it immediately.

You are one of the thousands of troops who need these services, and I cannot take you there myself. I would if I could, but I can’t. I don’t promise that the response will be what it should be, or what you deserve. My personal opinion (from what I’ve witnessed myself) is that your commanders-in-chief have let you all down in ways that can never be forgiven.

At least once a week, I see veterans homeless on the street. At least once a day, -somewhere- a veteran or current member of our armed services takes his or her own life. It is an epidemic that has plagued our military in far more tragic proportions than has EVER HAPPENED in the history of our military, even though it is the SAME SMALL NUMBER of you being forced to live and die in this horror, over and over again.

I abhor it, and I want you to get yourself to wherever it is where you might have at least some semblance of help, because there ARE people out there, (albeit few I admit) who are giving everything that THEY have, to SUPPORT you.

And stop whipping up on me jammyjam, because I am NOT ‘the enemy’ here. And pass the word. There is nothing to be gained from the personal attacks by you, or joe in maine, or mensa member, or any of you with the silly and immature comments that you all make on this board.

It only means that you need and deserve some attention, but I cannot ‘personally’ provide it. I also am not the one personally responsible for it, even though I’ve extended enormous energy over the past 6 years - FIRST in attempting to PREVENT the disaster from ever being launched, and since then trying to (in whatever capacity I may have) STOP it!

jimmyjam, I do not profess to be a military expert, you see it is difficult for a person who chooses violence as a solution to understand the viewpoint of an advocate for universal peace. To put it as guitarist Jimi Hendrix put it: “when the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace”. This was spoken by a man who served in the 101st Airborne.
Too many advocates for violence think non-violent advocates are cowardly. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. were two of the bravest persons to walk on this earth. So you can belittle such an attitude, if you want, it does not matter. Universal love, my fellow citizen, is the only engine of survival.

I’ll take that dollar you whiny little puke.

Judging by your expertise on all thinks military, you confuse support for the troops with support for the policies which put them in harms way.

It is obvious you haven’t had to pick up the body parts of comrades nor seen the affects on families whose military members were off on another six month deployment serving no purpose besides intimidating other nations by U.S. military presence.

Post WWII America and the Marshall plan is long gone.  You think it’s still alive in Iraq? Go there and find out for yourself.

Check six.

the most ,is that most of you are such experts on the military and the machine they represent, and I will bet a dollar, none if very few have ever served in it. yet you are so willing to bring it down. then you scream we support our troops, Bullshit. You dont support the troops or this country, mostly all of what you have learned about the military is from the Internet ,which is 75% bullshit anyway. yes we do kill , at the same time we save ,rebuild most of what we destroy, we heal their wounded even if we didn’t cause the wounds, and the best thing is most sane people d not read the bullshit you try to push on this site, all you do is preach to each other and no one on the other side hears a word your saying. once in a while someone like myself, a very proud member of that machine, which Cyrena herself has said I was more or less like a piece of shit, because I have been in for so long, and why because my opinion was not the same as hers, so if you are military as far as Cyrena is concerned, you suck if you dont think like her. I think the only time the other side hears your story is when someone who is laughing so hard cuts a piece of it and pastes it on another site, so they can laugh also.Have a great day, sun is shining here on the sand, got to go enjoy before the sun goes down, that when I do my best work.....

Like I said in an earlier post ,It is called M.A.D. Mutually Assured Destruction, One will not push the button because the other one will also. That is why we have nukes. and it works.

Nabih Ammari, greetings!

I would like to join the enlightened Cyrena in thanking you for your excellent piece. I wish you were a more frequent commentator on these threads!

Dear Nabih,

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!

I so very much appreciate your excellent essay here, and I hope others will learn from it as well.

Education is so very expensive these days, and of course we’re at a disadvantage even when it is available. Because all too often, it tells a far different tale of the truth.

Thanks again for the gift of the truth of history.

History matters, and the truth matters even more.

How utterly sad it is that no one is able to turn off this mechanical beast euphemistically called Defense Spending. Forty years after Martin Luther King’s death, we still can’t grasp his profound vision.
http://beerdoctor-beerdoctor.blogspot.com/

By WTFC, April 4 at 8:08 am #
Re: Re: WTF Mate?

“If I remember correctly Afghanistan had something to do with the Soviets blowing their coffers.”

Correct - and the U.S. had something to do with Afghanistan.  Who do you think supported the very people that eventually drove the Soviet’s out of that country?  (yes yes - I know who they went on to become).

Their system fell apart from the inside precisely because of their failure to project their power abroad and to compete effectively with the U.S.. The Soviets were spending a quarter of their GDP on their military.  Is this anything like the U.S.?  Nope. Our current 3.5% of GDP military spending (maybe 4.5% if you include Iraq/Afghanistan) is not even high by historical standards.  Several other countries spend more as a percentage, and we spent a far greater percentage during, say, WWII.  We also generate considerable income from the international sales of military equipment, something ignored completely by this article (in addition to its grossly inaccurate submarine cost numbers).

“All of the ex-soviet states are joining up with the EU.”

As opposed to what, declaring statehood in the U.S.?  They’re becoming NATO members which is perfectly fine with us, its principle member.

The fact is, our policy of containment worked.  It had good and bad outcomes, but on balance, it’s pretty obvious the good prevails.

No Maani,

The PNAC dates back to the early portion of 1997.

Check your sources again, because it’s imporant. That is over 10 years ago, and they’ve been making the plans to implement it since.

They’ve not always succeeded, (like when they tried to get Bill Clinton to take Saddam out back in the same year - refer to the letter by the same signatories) but that’s how long it’s been.

I have no need to split hairs or argue simple facts long in evidence.

I’m just now seeing this message Bill. (glad I checked the thread)

I’ll get to you in a couple of hours.

Thanks

By jackpine savage, April 4 at 2:52 pm #
Re: Re: WTF Mate?

“Except that the Cold “War” wasn’t really a war, since the two sides never actually fought.”

Thanks - I am aware that we didn’t fight the Soviets.  I guess I’ll have to clarify my point: that that is how you fight a nuclear war; not with weapons, but with the threat of weapons.  There’s no such thing as traditional nuclear war, but that doesn’t mean that nukes aren’t necessary.

By maintaining an overwhelming defense capability, the U.S. forced the Soviets into bankruptcy and a complete rethink of their place in the world.  Without our nukes, this never would have happened.

And what do you mean by “our situation is so strikingly similiar to the Soviet situation in the mid to late 80’s”?

Except that the Cold “War” wasn’t really a war, since the two sides never actually fought.

Since our situation is so strikingly similiar to the Soviet situation in the mid to late 80’s, i’d hold off on the gloating for a little while yet.

And your comparison of a geopolitical standoff to an actual war is neither here nor there.

Cyrena:

Actually, it wa published in 2000, although it probably took a year to write so, yes, it is almost 10 years old.  But what is more important is that it JUST predates Bush’s presidency; i.e., it reads like a blueprint of the Bush Administration for the past seven years.

Marshall:

You give the neocons too little credit; the phrase itself, within its context, may seem “inocuous,” but, as the old expression goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.  9/11 was an inside job.  And the “new Pearl Harbor” was achieved by design, not by some ridiculously “fortuitous” timing for the neocons.

Peace.

The nazis keep coming out from under the rocks here at Truthdig.  Here’s another mental midget filled with venom who has NO idea what our nation stands for that calls for racism as policy.

I’m not the anti-American here.  Darryl is the complete and total enemy of the United States of America.  He belongs Goose-stepping in 1930’s Nazi Germany, then receiving the just desserts those Nazis received.

He is the enemy of Freedom.

In case you didn’t notice Marshall, we didn’t ‘win’ the Cold War.

The Soviets just faded away.

Nuclear proliferation = mutually assured self-destruction.

In other words, it’s a suicide pact between nuclear armed nations.

And, when you tried to eat those arms that have filtered down to your private sector, you’ll find that they aren’t all that digestible.

“How many hundred of miles is it from any ocean????”

Apparently not far enough - Clinton launched submarine based cruise missiles at Afghanistan in 1998.

What’s scary, Maani, is how the only criticism anyone ever makes of this document is the part about Pearl Harbor, which they take completely out of context and try and portray as a wish (or even a threat) rather than the timely and unheeded warning it turned out to be.

“ It is impossible to win a war against a nuclear-armed country.”

WTF?  We already did - it was called the Cold War.  And we won it by having the teeth to back up our posturing while giving a shovel to the Soviets so they could dig themselves a financial grave.

No question a strong U.S. military provides jobs, economic stimulation, and scientific advancement that filters to the private sector.

And your comparison of a first world war to a third world occupation is apples and oranges.

It’s over a decade old Maani. But, that’s OK. Better late than never I suppose, for folks to become aware of the roots of their destruction.

It IS that old you know.

Louise….

Something UNDER THAT SAND?!!!!

“..After all, everybody knows Lieberman has a special “in” with the Bush. Maybe Iraq has an underground navy. I mean there’s just got to be something underneath all that sand, right?
Maybe Lieberman knows something we don’t.
[I doubt it, though ] “

Ya got THAT right! How about oodles and oodles and oodles of OIL in both proven and unproven fields, yet to be tapped????

Yeah…Lieberman knows THAT, but so do the rest of us. This is an OIL SEARCH and ‘RESCUE’ submarine, worth every bit of its weight in…OIL. And the lobbyists from Exxon-Mobile, (Condi’s old firm) and Royal Dutch Shell, and Chevron-Standard, and British Petroleum, and Halliburton, and all the others I’ve missed, paid damn good US tax dollars for that submarine.

Now I know you mentioned that these things are useless without any persons to man them, and of course I’d agree. But, let’s force ourselves to consider the reality of that as well. Those flying machines that leveled the WTC weren’t ‘manned’. At the very least, the operations of them were certainly NOT under the control of any presumed cockpit members.

So, as long as the CIA operates in the shadow of the DoD, carrying out their most heinous crimes, these humongous pieces of equipment are still widely used.

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is the link to the primary PNAC document, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.” You may want to print it out (it is a total of 78 pages).  It is VERY scary reading, and is the document that includes the notion of a “new Pearl Harbor” in order to get the American public to accept the neocon agenda.

Happy reading!  LOL.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDe fenses.pdf

Peace.

“Example: the $81-billion submarine pushed by Sen. Joseph Lieberman, presumably to fight al-Qaida’s navy.”

Now lets not be to hasty.

After all, everybody knows Lieberman has a special “in” with the Bush. Maybe Iraq has an underground navy. I mean there’s just got to be something underneath all that sand, right?

Maybe Lieberman knows something we don’t.
[I doubt it, though ]

Maybe his submarine has invisible paddles equipped with feet to gallop across the shimmering sand.
[following those underground pings!]

Maybe it’s actually equipped with secret things that pop out of the hull and bore into the sand.

Maybe there’s method to his madness.

No. More likely there’s just madness to his method.

Meanwhile, it’s good to know the military/industrial complex, with the emphasis on corporate/government, still hasn’t managed to provide all the up-armored vehicles they promised so long ago. I understand the biggest stumbling block is ... drum role please ...
we closed all our steel mills a few years back. Duh ... damned service economy.

Seems to me the only reliable war contractor we have is the guy who ships the tin caskets!

What I want to know is when is congress gonna start firing these free-loaders? Or actually put them to work for their money?

How about we send them out into the real world and let them start rebuilding the bridges and highways! I think we can still get concrete and rebar. And if the gas is too expensive, we can furnish them with wheelbarrows.

Now I think that’s a smashing good idea!

On a more serious note, I agree we do need a strong navy with the right equipment. And we do need a strong Air Force, and Army. All with the best equipment. I think what this article points out is overall bad management, waste, unnecessary duplication and taxation without representation. ‘Cause when the DoD cant account for, or properly manage the money, obviously there is no representation!

And something few, if any, in the DoD ever think about is the cannon fodder. They grab it and use it and abuse it, and they will soon just plain lose it!

Thanks to the most corrupt administration in the history of the United States, our military, both man-power and the real time equipment they all need every day, is in critical straits.

And all the big subs and new fighter jets in the world wont mean squat if there’s no-one to man them!

I just KNEW we need subs for the war in Afghanistan!

How many hundred of miles is it from any ocean????

WOW!!

You sure hit this right dab square on the head masmanz!!

Doesn’t get much more astutely accurate than this.

EVERYBODY should just re-read the PNAC documents.

Needless-to-say though, I have to wonder if they ever even considered what they would do about China.
Did they REALLY intend to actually STRENGTHEN China to tune of restoring that once great Imperial Dynasty, which lasted several centuries longer than the US Imperial Dynasty?

By the way, ‘they’ (rather than we) DO own Dubai at this point, and it is really something to behold. Just 5 years in the making, and it’s like something one could never imagine.

By ‘they’ I don’t mean China necessarily, since Cheney et all, and the Carlyle Group, and multiple others have a hand in it.

Still, you get my point..It too (DUBAI) is part of the PNAC.

There could be something to this Bill Blackolive.

I just tried to post a response that ‘wouldn’t take’. Humm
So, I’ve not visited the website there at ‘patriotsquestion9/11’ in many months, though I’ve certainly been a patriot questioning 9/11 myself, at least since…well, 9/11/2001.

So, I’ll have to check out the site, and see what’s going on. I suspect I know what ‘clamoring’ you’re speaking about, (it happens here as well, every time the subject comes up) but I’m not sure that ‘schizophrenia’ is the word that applies. I think you might mean ‘paranoia’ which happens to be one of the first elements that develops in a society under fascism. It’s just a result of the created chaos, (intended or otherwise) that keeps the masses confused and nobody knows anything, or can trust anything/anyone.

This isn’t new. Remember the Nazis and the Communists. People were turning over their own family members. That’s what happens in these highjackings of formerly democratic societies.

To tie that in with the topic of this piece, MILITARISM is always at the heart of it.

Bill,

Who’s worried? What’s going on at patriotsquestion9/11?

I haven’t visted there for a long time. I’ve been a patriot questioning 9/11 since, well...9/11/2001.

So, what am I missing over there? Maybe I need to check for myself, eh?

Now I’m not sure that schizophrenia is the word we want here, (but I could be wrong). I think the word though is PARANOIA, and that is the first thing to be established in the created chaos of a totalitarian/fascist takeover.

It requires that the public at large become paranoid of everything and everyone. I think they’ve done a very successful job at creating that.

Mike Gravel has made a new video about the military-industrial complex.  It’s interesting.  Beneath it is some footage of the anti-war demostrations in D.C.

http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2008/04/01/helter-ske lter/#more-1867

Now that is funny

In union apprenticeship you learn the word journeyman means “for a days pay” as in soup de jour. The pay was structured as a journeyman can be working 3 days a week as I have on numerous occaisions when I was starting out.  Layoffs are frequent and companies hire as contracts allow, once the contract is over, you go.

If contracts at electric boat are curtailed there will be alot more travelers within the U.S. and abroad. These are electricians, plumbers, welders, pipe fitters, tradesmen who can build other things besides submarines.

“Semper fi” means always faithful, the motto of the U.S. Marines. 

A strong military can be a good thing unless it is used to meddle in other nations affairs as it has done in the case of Iraq, immoral war I believe it it is called.  Having our flotillas crusing the worlds oceans does not create good will amongst nations, in my view it is wastes expensive oil, accomplishes nothing and actually acts counter to our nations interests unless scaring the bejeezus out of others is in our nations interest.

Chosin reservoir, Lebanon during Reagan, Iranian U.S. embassy takeover, there are plenty of instances of the U.S. being attacked prior to 9/11 and our “big stick” didn’t do any good then either.

The reason alot of these “Black” programs are secret and the budgets are kept from the public domain is that the U.S. government doesn’t care about Russian and Israeli spying, but it does care about what the U.S. public deems as excessive waste and the less the public knows how the money is being wasted the better.

I do believe in the 2nd amendment and my at home weapons are my ultimate guarantee against all enemies foreign and domestic.

This is the perfect weapon to take out those 3rd graders in GA who were plotting to kill their teacher.

my point is if you shut down these programs you will put thousands of people out of work,yet the dems say they are pro worker , so shut them down,and watch the unemployment line fill up.

A job is a job
I am Union local 134 IBEW
the union is only worried about who gets elected, so they can get more money for the Union officials. if it was the union the way the union was intended I would support every thing they do, but it isn’t. the union is about keeping people fat. ,good example Child molester teacher protected by the union, she should have been fired on the spot, but the union protected her. so fuck your unions until they clean their own house. The only reason we have not gone into a nuclear war is not because of the pusses crying about war, it’s because of M.A.D