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 A Submarine to Fight al-Qaida’s NavyPosted on Apr 1, 2008
A trillion dollars here, a trillion dollars there, and soon you’re talking real money. But when it comes to reporting on what the Bush war legacy has cost American taxpayers, the media have been shockingly indifferent to the highest run-up in military spending since World War II. Even the devastating defense spending audit released Monday by the Government Accountability Office documenting the enormous waste in every single U.S. advanced weapons system failed to provoke the outrage it, and five equally scathing previous annual audits, deserved. This is not about the waste of taxpayer dollars—already pushing a trillion—in funding the Iraq war, which, while reprehensible enough, pales in comparison to the big-ticket military systems purchased in the wake of 9/11. In the horror of that moment, the floodgates were lifted and the peace dividend promised with the end of the Cold War was washed away by a doubling of spending on ultra-complex military equipment originally designed to defeat a Soviet enemy that no longer exists, equipment that has no plausible connection with fighting stateless terrorists. Example: the $81-billion submarine pushed by Sen. Joseph Lieberman, presumably to fight al-Qaida’s navy. That’s the huge scandal the media and politicians from both parties have studiously avoided. But as the GAO’s authoritative audit details, the costs are astronomical. The explosion of spending on expensive weaponry after 9/11 had nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks of that day. The high-tech planes and ships commissioned for trillions of dollars to defeat an enemy with no navy, air force or army, and using $3 knives as its weapons arsenal, were gifts to the military-industrial complex that will go on giving for decades to come. The Iraq war may end someday, but rest assured that major weapons systems, once commissioned, have a life-support system unmatched in any other sector of public spending. Rarely does the plug get pulled on even the most irrelevant and expensive war toy. Not while both Democratic and Republican politicians feed at the same trough, and when so much is at stake in the way of jobs and profit. Just how expensive and wasteful this is was marked in the GAO’s audit: “Since 2000, the Department of Defense (DOD) has roughly doubled its planned investment in new systems from $790 billion to $1.6 trillion in 2007, but acquisition outcomes in terms of cost and schedule have not improved.” Pentagon cost overruns, always a huge problem, have mushroomed. As the GAO reported, “Total acquisition costs for major defense programs in the fiscal year 2007 portfolio have increased 26 percent from first estimates, compared with 6 percent in 2000.” I know eyes glaze when government budgets are discussed, but keep in mind that defense spending accounts for more than half of all the federal government’s discretionary spending. In short, funding for all the other stuff we argue about—science research, education, Arabic translators, insuring uninsured children—is minor compared to the waste on these military boondoggles that go unexamined. Yet nothing else the federal government does involves such waste because we are talking about weapons systems shrouded in secrecy and protected from unwelcome scrutiny by the Teflon coating of “national defense.” Credit the GAO for providing a rare glimpse into the most egregious waste of taxpayer dollars, concluding in its exhaustive, 205-page report: “Of the 72 programs GAO assessed this year, none of them had proceeded through system development meeting the best-practice standards for mature technologies, stable design, or mature production processes by critical junctures of the program, each of which are essential for achieving planned cost, schedule, and performance outcomes.” That’s a grade of zero for every major weapons system. Let’s take just one, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, a program estimated to be worth $300 billion in sales to its manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, the nation’s biggest defense contractor and most generous donor to lobbyists and politicians’ campaigns. The program to build what Lockheed boasts is “the most complex fighter ever built” is also the most expensive, with estimated acquisition costs having increased a whopping $55 billion in just the last three years. Lockheed need not worry about future profits, because the procurement schedule on this troubled plane has been stretched out to the year 2034. As the GAO says, “currently unproven processes and a lack of flight testing could mean future changes to design and manufacturing processes.” Hey, no problem, Lockheed will just add that to the taxpayer tab. Maybe by 2034, the plane will be ready to go take out Osama bin Laden. Or not. Previous item: The Clinton Backlash Next item: Torture's Poet Laureate Elsewhere: . Comments: 120 Published. Add Yours?Are you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. |
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By Joe, April 9 at 11:37 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Can someone brighter than I splain to me how any of the thousands of nuclear weapons we are stockpiling and upgrading can ever be used? The only practical use I can figure is a single high-altitude burst, the EMP to disable data and voice communications of a major foe in some drastic scenario. Even this would be a low-yield device optimized for its task. Any use of surface detonations of any yield, as in the case of a missile attack by us against a foe, would result at minimum in a collapse of the US economy via Bond cash-ins and utter disgust expressed by trading partners. This is not even considering some sort of reprisal attack. In the worst case of an attack upon the US by numerous nukes, a like response would screw the world economy if not make the place unlivable. The only proper course is to toss most of the nukes and put the money into modern conventional forces, kept AT HOME except in time of imminent threat.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Mudwollow, April 9 at 7:37 am #
(211 comments total)
Great Job RS
This needed saying and you said it extremely well. Thank you.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 8 at 7:15 pm #
(365 comments total)
Dear Nabih Ammari,
Salaam wa-Tahiyyah!
I read your previous message directed to me and I reciprocate with the words of appreciation and “Shukran jazeelan!”
As to this phony who calls himself “Inherit the wind” he is one full of hot air, therefore it is more fitting for him to be called “Inherit the hot air.”
I hope that his types would not discourage you to keep contributing your insightful posts! And remember the Arabic proverb which says, “Kullu ‘inaa’in bi ma fiihi yandah,” which roughly translates as, “Each earthen pot oozes the fluid it contains.” You have knowledge, facts and wisdom to share and ITW has hot air to emit. And this the situation you get in a free speech setting; some are warriors for the truth and others are enemies of the truth and warriors for falsehood.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Nabih Ammari, April 8 at 3:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re:Two solid causes for SU collapse.
In earlier post I outlined two major events as the
causes for the collapse of the Soviet Union.They are:
(1)The Chernobyl’s Nuclear Catastrophe which occurred
on April 26,1986.
(2)The Soviet Union’s war and occupation of Afghanistan
(1979-1989).
For details of what I wrote about the above two causes,please check my earliest post dated April 4
at 6:30pm.
Somebody by a pseudonym “Inherit The Wind"(what a
fancy phony name!!) claimed that I have no idea of what I was talking about??? he claims that the reason for the collapse was INTERNAL frictions,corruption,
enslavement of labors,lack of incentive etc…
I feel I must remind ITW that Mikhail Gorbachev had
started his INTERNAL REFORM on day one as he became
the leader of the Soviet Union in 1985.He called his INTERNAL REFORM which was consisted of two parts;
one dealt with reconstruction and the other one dealt
with liberation.To be specific,he called them in his
own language as:
.PERESTROIKA for Reconstruction.
.GLASNOST for Liberation.
He almost had succeeded in his INTERNAL REFORM,if it was not for the two main causes that bled the Soviet
Union financially to the bones.As a result,he made
the decision to recede from the International Stage
and try to salvage as much as he could of a faltering
economy and collapsing financial capacity.All of this had taken place only in four years since he ascended
to power.
Therefore,I suggest to ITW to review what Gorbachev
had done in his INTERNAL REFORM before ranting his
nonsense.
Sincerely,
Reply to this | Report thisNabih Ammari
An Independent in Ohio.
By Nabih Ammari, April 7 at 6:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Typical real Marxist thinking.
What a pity!!!
Sincerely,
Reply to this | Report thisNabih Ammari
An Independent in Ohio.
By James Sterling, April 6 at 6:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Why ruin a good article?
I am constantly wondering why monkeys like Jimmyjam and the other rabid, profane and peanut brained are invited to piss all over this webpage.
Unless it is to demonstrate to the world the complete failure of Education and the Media in the United States.
Having served as an intelligence anaylist in our armed forces, I can tell you with confidence that several expressions and statements they have posted here are in violation of our military code of conduct.
Such as they are hiding behind the anonymity of pseudonym, their statements must be taken at face value; ie, rubbish.
Enjoyed the article, but I think we can do without the freak show.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 7 at 3:19 pm #
(1074 comments total)
Re: Why ruin a good article?
Having got out of the USMC in 1983 after serving 2 - 4 year active tours as an 0231/0241/0211, I can safely say that if jimmyjam and gomerspile are representative of the current makeup of the U.S. military, we as a nation are truely fucked.
I do think they are wannabees as they lack discretion, valor and the BITEDICKJEDJL traits of good soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines.
Its been 25 years and it seems like yesterday.
Reply to this | Report thisBy jimmyjam, April 7 at 2:12 pm #
(140 comments total)
Re: Why ruin a good article?
Please tell me about the code of conduct? and your intelligence analyst experience (radio-man), then tell people why the intel you guys get from the field is not good enough to pass on. You must have went to the same school as me,or your spell checker is broken. It must be the failure of Edjumacation.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Nabih Ammari, April 6 at 2:59 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
To:Professor Fadel Abdallah
Dear Professor Fadel Abdallah,
Please accept my sincerest “Shukran Jazilan” for your
kind words.Highly appreciated.
You really hit the target of what I was looking for,when
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisyou described cyrena as “The Enlightened Cyrena”.I could not agree with you more.She is ENLIGHTENED,for
sure;and I might add most sensible too,in addition to
diligence and dedication.A decent human being I wish to have as my next door neighbor to exchange views
with over a cup of coffee,every now and then.
Best Regards,
Nabih Ammari
By cyrena, April 7 at 4:15 am #
(4067 comments total)
Re:
Dear Nabih,
I know this was directed to Professor Abdullah, but I just wanted to say that I would like to have you as my next door neighbor as well, and especially with the coffee. (maybe we can sneak some in from across the way)
Thanks...this means much.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Nabih Ammari, April 6 at 2:07 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re:Re April 5
Dear cyrena,
Thank you for your support and kind words.Most
appreciated.Please keep the splendid work you
have been doing through your highly informative
posts going,regardless of all odds.You are following
the right paths in many aspects I cannot elaborate on
here through off-the-cuff post.Yours are splendid posts,indeed.
I cannot follow-up on this thread what is going on,
because each time I click on “Arrange Comments by
Date” to get all comments I was informed that they
had already been posted,I get a completely dark screen.
The last post I read on this thread was written by
Michael Mclister April 5.I could get no more posts.
There is something wrong with this thread, since I
Reply to this | Report thishave no problems with the other threads as I review on Truthdig.May be the problem is in my computer.I just do not know for sure.
Best Regards,
Nabih Ammari
By Michael McLister, April 5 at 10:02 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Those that rely on the eternal efficacy of MAD might think about the Soviet Nuclear Safety record. Until the Chernobyl incident the West was unaware of problems in their safety record.
Similarly with MAD, we won’t know if Russia’s, or China’s early response system to the US threat is working properly, until the day the missiles are over Western skies. What we do know is that their warning system is already antiquated and over-stressed and that there have been previous incidents. Coupled with US plans to extend their missile system even closer to Russia which will severely shorten their launch on warning times is an accident waiting to happen.
Are the Russians likely to give credence to the US’ professions of good intentions? Considering the US military doctrine of the use of pre-emptive strikes and the longstanding refusal to repudiate the First Strike option, it would seem unlikely. Meanwhile they would only have to read this blog to know the real intentions of the reactionary right is to target them, since China and Russia are the only logical recipients of the newer advanced weapons systems.
The MAD doctrine was never designed to be an end in itself. It was designed as a mechanism to buy time for cooler heads to diffuse geopolitical tensions once the Cold War ended. Instead the intentions seem to be to start a new one.
Reply to this | Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, April 5 at 9:25 am #
(202 comments total)
jimmyjam, I do not profess to be a military expert, you see it is difficult for a person who chooses violence as a solution to understand the viewpoint of an advocate for universal peace. To put it as guitarist Jimi Hendrix put it: “when the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace”. This was spoken by a man who served in the 101st Airborne.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisToo many advocates for violence think non-violent advocates are cowardly. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. were two of the bravest persons to walk on this earth. So you can belittle such an attitude, if you want, it does not matter. Universal love, my fellow citizen, is the only engine of survival.
By Marshall, April 7 at 4:33 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re:
“This was spoken by a man who served in the 101st Airborne. “
I think the word “served” is stretching it; “remanded” would be more accurate. He was in less than a year as an alternative to jail, saw no combat, and was discharged for being a sub-par soldier. If you’re looking for credibility for your post, I’d leave Hendrix out of it.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 8 at 4:12 pm #
(1074 comments total)
Re: Re:
He did more than Bush or Cheney
Report thisBy jimmyjam, April 5 at 7:15 am #
(140 comments total)
What amazes me
the most ,is that most of you are such experts on the military and the machine they represent, and I will bet a dollar, none if very few have ever served in it. yet you are so willing to bring it down. then you scream we support our troops, Bullshit. You dont support the troops or this country, mostly all of what you have learned about the military is from the Internet ,which is 75% bullshit anyway. yes we do kill , at the same time we save ,rebuild most of what we destroy, we heal their wounded even if we didn’t cause the wounds, and the best thing is most sane people d not read the bullshit you try to push on this site, all you do is preach to each other and no one on the other side hears a word your saying. once in a while someone like myself, a very proud member of that machine, which Cyrena herself has said I was more or less like a piece of shit, because I have been in for so long, and why because my opinion was not the same as hers, so if you are military as far as Cyrena is concerned, you suck if you dont think like her. I think the only time the other side hears your story is when someone who is laughing so hard cuts a piece of it and pastes it on another site, so they can laugh also.Have a great day, sun is shining here on the sand, got to go enjoy before the sun goes down, that when I do my best work.....
Reply to this | Hide 6 replies | Report thisBy cyrena, April 5 at 7:00 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re: What amazes me
Part 1
No jimmyjam
Stop lying and bearing this false witness against me, because I have NOT said you were a piece of shit, not more and not less.
I also have not known, (maybe because I’ve not paid attention) that you were a member of the military.
The only thing that I ‘picked up’ from your posts, is that you appear to know a great deal about WEAPONS. So yes, that would be an indication (at least to many) that you might have served in the military. It is only THIS message that confirms it, and this is the very first post that I’ve seen from you, suggesting that you are NOW in the military.
I have indicated on this site before, that I have many, many immediate and extended family members who have served in the US military over the past 5 decades. I have and continued to SUPPORT THEM ALL. Additionally, I CONTINUE to volunteer my own time and limited resources to current members of the military TO THIS DAY. The current generation of troops has been overwhelmingly disrespected by the cowards (the current political regime of gangsters in DC and at the Pentagon) by putting them/you in harms way; NOT to protect and defend the US or our Constitution, but to steal resources from the sovereign lands of other nation states, and to establish CONTROL BY AGGRESSIVE FORCE, on a global scale. In other words, and to put it bluntly because I know no other way…our troops are being USED as mercenaries and intentionally put in harms way to further the greed of those who have made the orders to PUT them in harms way.
Just under 2 years ago, I lost yet another member of my extended family to this operation of aggressive greed. She was young, vibrant, smart and full of spirit. She finished at the top of her class at West Point, and she was dead from a roadside bomb in Iraq less than 3 months later. Now can you tell us why she died THAT way? Her family members believe that she died ‘protecting us from our ENEMIES.” Is that what YOU believe? Yes, I know that is what you have been brainwashed to believe, but have you tried to really follow it through, to ask the hard questions, and to understand WHY it is that ANY of you are thousands of miles from home, allegedly ‘defending’ us against ‘enemies’? Do you really believe that the millions of innocent Iraqis that have died from US military might, (bombs from the air) were ever our ENEMIES?
Are you familiar with Ehren Watada? He is a military hero in my book, because he dared to stand on integrity and uphold the missions and morals and HONOR that all of our troops deserve..each and every single member of the US military. He knew that his OATH was to the Constitution, and he took the time to learn what that oath was about, and refused to serve in an illegal and unjust aggressive war. He agreed to serve in Afghanistan, and on the front lines, because he believed that to be a legal and operation, based on the International Laws and the rules of war. He knew that Iraq was NOT. And yes, he too, did his duty, and was treated as a political prisoner by his own country, as a result.
TBC
Reply to this | Report thisBy cyrena, April 5 at 6:58 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re: What amazes me
Part 2
Moving along. I’m sick of the whiney statements from you and your ‘sponsors’ or agitators accusing me of anything in this extremely tortured logic….
• “while someone like myself, a very proud member of that machine, which Cyrena herself has said I was more or less like a piece of shit, because I have been in for so long, and why because my opinion was not the same as hers, so if you are military as far as Cyrena is concerned, you suck if you dont think like her..”
It is totally irrational for you or anyone else to continue ranting against me, for supposedly somehow marginalizing you, or for not “thinking like me.”
Try to follow that Jimmyjam, and see if you can even understand how stupid that sounds.
First, I don’t even KNOW you. I did NOT know that you were a ‘proud member of the military machine’ until now, and the most I’ve been able to pick up from your troubling posts is that you are apparently very troubled yourself, and crying out for some sort of ‘help’ in the only way that you know how.
The PROBLEM is that because I don’t know you, or even knew anything about your military status, I am PERSONALLY powerless to do anything about it! And railing against me (anonymously) on a public forum like this board, serves absolutely NO benefit to you. It is NOT ‘required’ that you or anyone else ‘think like me’ or ‘agree’ with my own opinions, or any other opinions here.
What you’ve done here, is to single ME out as your whipping post, and attack ME – by name, in your railings against the world at large, and in your obviously traumatized mental capacity.
So let me tell you this jimmyjam, because it is the ONLY help that I can singularly offer to you, under the limited circumstances of a public forum.
GET YOURSELF TO A VA Hospital or other facility, and do it immediately.
You are one of the thousands of troops who need these services, and I cannot take you there myself. I would if I could, but I can’t. I don’t promise that the response will be what it should be, or what you deserve. My personal opinion (from what I’ve witnessed myself) is that your commanders-in-chief have let you all down in ways that can never be forgiven.
At least once a week, I see veterans homeless on the street. At least once a day, -somewhere- a veteran or current member of our armed services takes his or her own life. It is an epidemic that has plagued our military in far more tragic proportions than has EVER HAPPENED in the history of our military, even though it is the SAME SMALL NUMBER of you being forced to live and die in this horror, over and over again.
I abhor it, and I want you to get yourself to wherever it is where you might have at least some semblance of help, because there ARE people out there, (albeit few I admit) who are giving everything that THEY have, to SUPPORT you.
And stop whipping up on me jammyjam, because I am NOT ‘the enemy’ here. And pass the word. There is nothing to be gained from the personal attacks by you, or joe in maine, or mensa member, or any of you with the silly and immature comments that you all make on this board.
It only means that you need and deserve some attention, but I cannot ‘personally’ provide it. I also am not the one personally responsible for it, even though I’ve extended enormous energy over the past 6 years - FIRST in attempting to PREVENT the disaster from ever being launched, and since then trying to (in whatever capacity I may have) STOP it!
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy jimmyjam, April 6 at 8:16 am #
(140 comments total)
Re: Re: What amazes me
I have to remove myself from this place for a few minutes,My x team member gomerspile, was told by you that being in the military was him just sucking on the corporate welfare thing, back soon for a complete reply.
Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 5 at 8:09 am #
(1074 comments total)
Rage against the machine
I’ll take that dollar you whiny little puke.
Judging by your expertise on all thinks military, you confuse support for the troops with support for the policies which put them in harms way.
It is obvious you haven’t had to pick up the body parts of comrades nor seen the affects on families whose military members were off on another six month deployment serving no purpose besides intimidating other nations by U.S. military presence.
Post WWII America and the Marshall plan is long gone. You think it’s still alive in Iraq? Go there and find out for yourself.
Check six.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy PatrickHenry, April 6 at 3:04 pm #
(1074 comments total)
An Army of One
jimmyjam,
Your full of shit.
Report thisBy jimmyjam, April 6 at 11:23 am #
(140 comments total)
Re: Rage against the machine
First of all you low life piece of shit, I,m a Hospital Corpsman, I deal with the sick ,dead and dying every day. Can you say that? you pansy ass puke..I have escorted team mates home in boxes, and explained to there families what it was like serving with them. Can you say that? I have delivered babys, can you say that, I have fought for ,beside and with, peoples of every race, religion, color and sexual preferance, can you say that. During peace time I have gone into small countries that have no medical facilities ,Why? to treat the locals ,and why just because they need it. Meanwhile little pieces of shit like you, who live under daddy’s wallet, and fight against every thing that is given to them, just so they can feel radical, and have a reason to bitch. you a little piss ant who wouldn’t know anything about freedom even if it bit you on the ass. So stick your little big bad military machine up your ass . Your the little chicken shit fucker that would crap his pants at the first sign of a fight. Then cry for the military to come save you, I hope it is me that has to come pull your coward ass outa the shit. Have a fine day dickhead, by the way puss-n-boots, most of the fighters in Iraq want to finish the job.unlike you and yours.
Report thisBy Fadel Abdallah, April 5 at 6:50 am #
(365 comments total)
Nabih Ammari, greetings!
I would like to join the enlightened Cyrena in thanking you for your excellent piece. I wish you were a more frequent commentator on these threads!
Reply to this | Report thisBy thebeerdoctor, April 4 at 11:22 pm #
(202 comments total)
SELF PERPETUATINING VIOLENCE
How utterly sad it is that no one is able to turn off this mechanical beast euphemistically called Defense Spending. Forty years after Martin Luther King’s death, we still can’t grasp his profound vision.
Reply to this | Report thishttp://beerdoctor-beerdoctor.blogspot.com/
By HB Freddie, April 4 at 6:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Real Burden of Military Spending
Beyond the simple number of dollars spent, an insidious effect of defense spending is to destroy America’s economic competitiveness. Huge segments of our manufacturing and technology industries have grown soft and lazy from politically protected, cost-plus government contracts. No private sector customer would tolerate the cost overruns, schedule delays, and poor product performance that are routine on military programs. In an honest marketplace, Lockheed (which abandoned its commercial aircraft business in the 1980s) wouldn’t last ten seconds in the ring against the likes of a Sony or Toyota.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Nabih Ammari, April 4 at 6:36 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The real reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union
were mainly two:
(1)The catastrophic nuclear reactor accident that
took place in Chernobyl on April 26,1986,resulting in
evacuating 135,000 people from an area of 3,000 square
miles; announced as totally unfit for human and animal
living.The catastrophic damages are still alive and well till present time,April 5,2008.
(2)The Soviet Union’s war and occupation of Afghanistan from 1979-1989.The Mugahideen,including
what was called then the Afghan Arabs,were supported by Saudi Arabia,Pakistan,some other Muslim countries and the CIA.In addition to the bloodshed suffered by
the Soviet Union,the war and occupation had bled the
Soviet Union financially to a total collapse.Saudi Arabia was the main financier to the Mugahideen,and
hence the major cause for the Soviet financial demise
Mikhail Gorbatchev,the leader of the Soviet Union then, was intelligent enough to realize that neither
side will win a nuclear exchanges because of what he
witnessed in the Chernobyl’s catastrophe.He was also
intelligent enough to realize that the whole war and
occupation of Afghanistan was a waste and indeed
bleeding the Soviet Union in every strategic angle
he could envision.Therefore,he decided to call it quit and try to save whatever leverage he could find at his disposal.
It is interesting to note that Osama bin Laden was
on our side in fighting the Soviet’s occupation of
Afghanistan.If the official claim is true,he,at the
end,had made us pay a price too on 9/11.
The neocons self-defeating claim that we have won the cold war just does not alter the two facts outlined
above.Nether does it alter the fact that the decision to recede from the international stage was first and last a Soviet decision,not an American decision.In
other words,no dictation of terms for surrender was
dictated by the victorious side on the defeated one.
Therefore,claiming that we have won the cold war is
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisa neocons’ hallucination at its best.
Sincerely,
Nabih Ammari
An Independent in Ohio.
By Inherit The Wind, April 7 at 2:05 pm #
(259 comments total)
Re:
Unlike Cyrena, I think you have no idea what you are talking about. Neither of these events brought down the SU anymore than Reagan’s pumping up the arms race.
The Soviet Union was brought down by the internal contradiction of Marxism: Work is done as a slave, and sustenance is grudging charity. There’s no incentive to do better--you’ll just get assigned more work. But there’s LOTS of incentive to come up with “needs” athat have to be fulfilled at your brother’s expense.
Reply to this | Report thisBy cyrena, April 5 at 12:42 am #
(4067 comments total)
Re:
Dear Nabih,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!
I so very much appreciate your excellent essay here, and I hope others will learn from it as well.
Education is so very expensive these days, and of course we’re at a disadvantage even when it is available. Because all too often, it tells a far different tale of the truth.
Thanks again for the gift of the truth of history.
History matters, and the truth matters even more.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Marshall, April 4 at 5:34 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
By WTFC, April 4 at 8:08 am #
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
“If I remember correctly Afghanistan had something to do with the Soviets blowing their coffers.”
Correct - and the U.S. had something to do with Afghanistan. Who do you think supported the very people that eventually drove the Soviet’s out of that country? (yes yes - I know who they went on to become).
Their system fell apart from the inside precisely because of their failure to project their power abroad and to compete effectively with the U.S.. The Soviets were spending a quarter of their GDP on their military. Is this anything like the U.S.? Nope. Our current 3.5% of GDP military spending (maybe 4.5% if you include Iraq/Afghanistan) is not even high by historical standards. Several other countries spend more as a percentage, and we spent a far greater percentage during, say, WWII. We also generate considerable income from the international sales of military equipment, something ignored completely by this article (in addition to its grossly inaccurate submarine cost numbers).
“All of the ex-soviet states are joining up with the EU.”
As opposed to what, declaring statehood in the U.S.? They’re becoming NATO members which is perfectly fine with us, its principle member.
The fact is, our policy of containment worked. It had good and bad outcomes, but on balance, it’s pretty obvious the good prevails.
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy tenstring, April 5 at 4:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Re: Re: WTF Mate?
This is the standard propaganda line of post-cold war “free marketeers.” The Soviets, like the American military-industrial-congressional complex are now doing, killed themselves: they were drunk with power, and Stalin institutionalized sociopathic paranoia to a frightening degree. The Vietnam War wasn’t something that “worked,” nor is the divided Korea a success, nor was Afghanistan a success. To say that “containment worked” is a glib comment that has no foundation in studied reality. The Soviets killed themselves through dysfunction and corruption. The same thing is happening in the U.S. right now. Scheer’s article pulls the curtain back on the “great and powerful OZ” of American empire. We need to hold the curtain open and let the American people have a good look.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy Marshall, April 5 at 8:48 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF Mate?
“The Soviets killed themselves through dysfunction and corruption.”
Funny, that’s what I said. The dysfunction and corruption of a state run socioeconomic system which spent itself into the ground trying to unsuccessfully (thanks to U.S. and NATO) extend its regional dominance. Afghanistan was the Soviet’s Waterloo with the U.S. and facilitated its collapse from within. There’s no question that containment worked; it prevented a nuclear conflict and it resulted in the collapse of the USSR.
Funny you’d bring up Korea - the “identical twins separated at birth” political experiment that illustrates the misguided fundamentals of a Stalinist dictatorship (as if history’s other examples weren’t enough) that sits next door to a thriving democracy. I can only imagine that what you’re pointing out was how unfortunate it was that the U.S. chose to allow the establishment of such a malformed socioeconomic system in the North.
Perhaps the U.S. does spend too much on its military. Perhaps it doesn’t. The numbers (3.5% of GDP) aren’t terrifying. Under Clinton, it was 3%, but many feel that our military fell into relative disrepair during that time.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 5 at 8:36 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF Mate?
“The Soviets killed themselves through dysfunction and corruption.”
Funny, that’s what I said. The dysfunction and corruption of a state run economy which spent itself into the ground by trying to extend its dominance too far, and trying to outdo the west. The Soviet reach was greater than its grasp given the corrupt inefficiency of a doomed political system. Afghanistan was the Soviet’s Waterloo and facilitated the collapse from within. There’s no question that containment worked; it prevented a nuclear conflict and it resulted in the collapse of the USSR.
Funny you’d bring up Korea - the “identical twins separated at birth” political experiment that illustrates the misguided fundamentals of a Stalinist dictatorship (as if history’s other examples weren’t enough) that sits next door to a thriving democracy. I can only imagine that what you’re pointing out was how unfortunate it was that the U.S. chose to allow the establishment of such a malformed socioeconomic system in the North.
Perhaps the U.S. does spend too much on its military. Perhaps it doesn’t. The numbers (3.5% of GDP) aren’t terrifying. Under Clinton, it was 3%, but many feel that our military fell into relative disrepair during that time.
Report thisBy Marshall, April 4 at 3:45 pm #
(358 comments total)
By jackpine savage, April 4 at 2:52 pm #
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
“Except that the Cold “War” wasn’t really a war, since the two sides never actually fought.”
Thanks - I am aware that we didn’t fight the Soviets. I guess I’ll have to clarify my point: that that is how you fight a nuclear war; not with weapons, but with the threat of weapons. There’s no such thing as traditional nuclear war, but that doesn’t mean that nukes aren’t necessary.
By maintaining an overwhelming defense capability, the U.S. forced the Soviets into bankruptcy and a complete rethink of their place in the world. Without our nukes, this never would have happened.
And what do you mean by “our situation is so strikingly similiar to the Soviet situation in the mid to late 80’s”?
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy jimmyjam, April 5 at 6:58 am #
(140 comments total)
Re: Agree
Like I said in an earlier post ,It is called M.A.D. Mutually Assured Destruction, One will not push the button because the other one will also. That is why we have nukes. and it works.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy ManUtd, April 8 at 2:03 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Re: Agree
“That is why we have nukes”. What is all this we stuff. You have nothing you little chump. You are a slave to the system. You are a little government lapdog who actually thinks you are part of the big club. Your not. You are a subordinate who decides nothing and when you are all used up there will be plenty more of brainwashed cannon fodder to take your place. Always remember, George Bush loves you.
Report thisBy Bill Blackolive, April 4 at 10:13 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Cyrena
Cyrena, I agree with you enough, maybe you could contact me past this overhead sometime: . Ha, let’s see if this gets through.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy cyrena, April 4 at 5:10 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re: Cyrena
I’m just now seeing this message Bill. (glad I checked the thread)
I’ll get to you in a couple of hours.
Thanks
Reply to this | Report thisBy debbie S, April 4 at 8:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Congress continues to supply the Pentagon with more outrageous funding for this illegal war. I do not want to support the militarism that has been implemented and funded by the military and congress .I do not want to contribute my paying taxes to go for the criminal war profiteering, sanctioning of torture, or the murder of civilians .I do not believe that dropping bombs on defenseless human beings,
Reply to this | Report thisthe stealing of another countries resources for corporations, or environmental destruction is acceptable.The further expansion of military bases takes away from desperately needed funding for healthcare, social services, education, and decent jobs. They call it democratization but it is really imperialism with all the violence that goes with it The privatization and neoliberalism is for the wealthy, a minority here in this country who feel economics should be based on unequality, greed, and the worship of the market that we all know has no conscience or concern for anything but making profits by whatever the means.I do not wish to have as an American citizen a war-based economy along with the private security firms economic contributions. It is a disgrace which has nothing to do with a democratic society wanting to participate in a just and peaceful way with the rest of the world.I believe there are many, many people here in this country who feel the same way.The essay by Howard Zinn “Are Hilary and Obama Afraid of Talking About the New Deal? I feel is what is desperately needed here in this country.This is the way for people in america to go for a future that is sustainable and life-affirming.
By dopey, April 3 at 9:04 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
WTF Mate?
Why on earth would we have weapons systems to “counter” China or Russia? It’s just corporate welfare. It is impossible to win a war against a nuclear-armed country. If we destroy their military, do they just say “uncle” and let us win? That’s why we spend all of our time bombing countries that are basically defenseless. Was anyone in the U.S. ever worried about Iraqi planes flying over Dubuque?
Reply to this | Hide 4 replies | Report thisAdditionally, we built the world’s most expensive military to simultaneously fight and win in two theaters against two first world opponents. We are taking longer than world war 2 to fight enemies who haven’t got a single airplane or missle. They bury bombs in the road and lob mortar shells. Why does anyone think we can take on China or Russia?
Just more corporate welfare.
By Marshall, April 3 at 11:40 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re: WTF Mate?
“ It is impossible to win a war against a nuclear-armed country.”
WTF? We already did - it was called the Cold War. And we won it by having the teeth to back up our posturing while giving a shovel to the Soviets so they could dig themselves a financial grave.
No question a strong U.S. military provides jobs, economic stimulation, and scientific advancement that filters to the private sector.
And your comparison of a first world war to a third world occupation is apples and oranges.
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy jackpine savage, April 4 at 2:52 pm #
(666 comments total)
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
Except that the Cold “War” wasn’t really a war, since the two sides never actually fought.
Since our situation is so strikingly similiar to the Soviet situation in the mid to late 80’s, i’d hold off on the gloating for a little while yet.
And your comparison of a geopolitical standoff to an actual war is neither here nor there.
Report thisBy WTFC, April 4 at 8:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
If I remember correctly Afghanistan had something to do with the Soviets blowing their coffers. Also their form of totalitarianism fell apart from the inside. They USSR also politicized every from science to bread. Sound familiar?
Report thisNo one won the “cold war” we are losing a lot because of it right now. I guess if anyone won the “cold war” it is going to be the EU and parts of Asia. All of the ex-soviet states are joining up with the EU.
By cyrena, April 4 at 1:30 am #
(4067 comments total)
Re: Re: WTF Mate?
In case you didn’t notice Marshall, we didn’t ‘win’ the Cold War.
The Soviets just faded away.
Nuclear proliferation = mutually assured self-destruction.
In other words, it’s a suicide pact between nuclear armed nations.
And, when you tried to eat those arms that have filtered down to your private sector, you’ll find that they aren’t all that digestible.
Report thisBy Maani, April 3 at 8:12 pm #
(1254 comments total)
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is the link to the primary PNAC document, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.” You may want to print it out (it is a total of 78 pages). It is VERY scary reading, and is the document that includes the notion of a “new Pearl Harbor” in order to get the American public to accept the neocon agenda.
Happy reading! LOL.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDe fenses.pdf
Peace.
Reply to this | Hide 4 replies | Report thisBy Marshall, April 3 at 11:44 pm #
(358 comments total)
Re:
What’s scary, Maani, is how the only criticism anyone ever makes of this document is the part about Pearl Harbor, which they take completely out of context and try and portray as a wish (or even a threat) rather than the timely and unheeded warning it turned out to be.
Reply to this | Report thisBy cyrena, April 3 at 9:04 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re:
It’s over a decade old Maani. But, that’s OK. Better late than never I suppose, for folks to become aware of the roots of their destruction.
It IS that old you know.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy cyrena, April 4 at 5:15 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re: Re:
No Maani,
The PNAC dates back to the early portion of 1997.
Check your sources again, because it’s imporant. That is over 10 years ago, and they’ve been making the plans to implement it since.
They’ve not always succeeded, (like when they tried to get Bill Clinton to take Saddam out back in the same year - refer to the letter by the same signatories) but that’s how long it’s been.
I have no need to split hairs or argue simple facts long in evidence.
Report thisBy Maani, April 4 at 8:54 am #
(1254 comments total)
Re: Re:
Cyrena:
Actually, it wa published in 2000, although it probably took a year to write so, yes, it is almost 10 years old. But what is more important is that it JUST predates Bush’s presidency; i.e., it reads like a blueprint of the Bush Administration for the past seven years.
Marshall:
You give the neocons too little credit; the phrase itself, within its context, may seem “inocuous,” but, as the old expression goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. 9/11 was an inside job. And the “new Pearl Harbor” was achieved by design, not by some ridiculously “fortuitous” timing for the neocons.
Peace.
Report thisBy Louise, April 3 at 7:10 pm #
(750 comments total)
“Example: the $81-billion submarine pushed by Sen. Joseph Lieberman, presumably to fight al-Qaida’s navy.”
Now lets not be to hasty.
After all, everybody knows Lieberman has a special “in” with the Bush. Maybe Iraq has an underground navy. I mean there’s just got to be something underneath all that sand, right?
Maybe Lieberman knows something we don’t.
]
[I doubt it, though
Maybe his submarine has invisible paddles equipped with feet to gallop across the shimmering sand.
[following those underground pings!]
Maybe it’s actually equipped with secret things that pop out of the hull and bore into the sand.
Maybe there’s method to his madness.
No. More likely there’s just madness to his method.
Meanwhile, it’s good to know the military/industrial complex, with the emphasis on corporate/government, still hasn’t managed to provide all the up-armored vehicles they promised so long ago. I understand the biggest stumbling block is ... drum role please ...
we closed all our steel mills a few years back. Duh ... damned service economy.
Seems to me the only reliable war contractor we have is the guy who ships the tin caskets!
What I want to know is when is congress gonna start firing these free-loaders? Or actually put them to work for their money?
How about we send them out into the real world and let them start rebuilding the bridges and highways! I think we can still get concrete and rebar. And if the gas is too expensive, we can furnish them with wheelbarrows.
Now I think that’s a smashing good idea!
On a more serious note, I agree we do need a strong navy with the right equipment. And we do need a strong Air Force, and Army. All with the best equipment. I think what this article points out is overall bad management, waste, unnecessary duplication and taxation without representation. ‘Cause when the DoD cant account for, or properly manage the money, obviously there is no representation!
And something few, if any, in the DoD ever think about is the cannon fodder. They grab it and use it and abuse it, and they will soon just plain lose it!
Thanks to the most corrupt administration in the history of the United States, our military, both man-power and the real time equipment they all need every day, is in critical straits.
And all the big subs and new fighter jets in the world wont mean squat if there’s no-one to man them!
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy cyrena, April 3 at 8:24 pm #
(4067 comments total)
Re:
Louise….
Something UNDER THAT SAND?!!!!
“..After all, everybody knows Lieberman has a special “in” with the Bush. Maybe Iraq has an underground navy. I mean there’s just got to b