cyrena replies to my proof that Obama campaigned in FL with this little gem:  <<< “because neither Obama or his campaign sanctioned the ads, and they didn’t run long.” >>>>>

The Obama campaign PAID for the ads out of the Obama campaign treasury. How is that NOT sanctioning the ads? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth and another orifice on the human body. The “rules’ said NO campaigning. PERIOD. Campaign ads that didn’t run long is still campaigning, and there is no way round that.

Look. Your candidate lost FL big time even with ads. Hillary did not break the rules and she clobbered him without any ads.

Obama will still need FL to win in the November.So he and you should not be writing Fl off.

Outraged,

I can only say that Bert can’t spell, and is either too stupid or too arrogant to use a spell checker.

And, no I can’t explain why she doesn’t understand the rules that were established long before the issues in MI and FL came about.

She is right about ONE thing. The ads that were briefly aired in Florida ‘featuring’ Obama WERE aired on CNN and MSNBC. So I had THAT part wrong, and I stand corrected.

I’ll only add that it doesn’t matter worth a flying fig ANYWAY, because neither Obama or his campaign sanctioned the ads, and they didn’t run long.

Oh, should I add the part about how it doesn’t matter anyway, since the rules were already determined long before then, that the FLIPPIN’ VOTES WERE NOT GOING TO COUNT?

And I guess I could also say that bert could give less than a damn about the actual goings on in Washington DC, or who the president actually is, or what effect any of that is going to have on the rest of us.

BECAUSE...bert is just the confrontational and combative type person, mad at the world all of her life, who simply NEEDS the chaos and negativity of a gutter fight.

My mother would call her a shit-starting agitator. My dad would say she thrives in the gutter, and only in the gutter, wrestling with the snakes and the alligators. I would say that she probably even WINS sometimes with those snakes and alligators.

But THEN, even after she ‘wins’, she’s still pissed off, and has to go pick a fight with a skunk. AND, I’d bet she can out-skunk the best of them as well!!That is where she thrives.

And check this out, she’s as much as already conceded the primaries to Obama. Claims he’s gonna lose in NOVEMBER!

So, she and lib in Tx should see if they can get a discount on a shared room at the psychiatric facility of their choice. Haters like them get along with each other. At least as long as there’s a swamp or gutter nearby to keep them entertained.

Not at all. I heard Conservative Yankee talk about Massachusetts and I thought I would give something back. I think I will enlarge the album some more.

<< Obama DID NOT campaign in Florida, and he didn’t run any of his OWN campaign ads in Florida. >>

WRONG

<< RATHER, the ads that were televised in FLorida, were ads created by the DNC, >>

WHAT DNC ADS? PROVE THAT WITH A CITATION.

<< and long before any campaigning actually began ANYWHERE! CBS and ABC chose to air those ads, >>

WRONG AGAIN CYRENA. THE ADS RAN ON CNN AND MSNBC.

MY CITATIONS FOR ABOVE COMMENTS BELOW

The Obama campaign aired PAID television advertisements on national cable a CNN and MSNBC buy that includes advertising in the state of Florida.

****citation****** From Time magazine’s on-line blog, Swampland; Jan. 21, 08 .:  “Also today Obama began running national ads on CNN and MSNBC, a buy that includes Florida.”

Even though this was a regional buy, it is and was possible for Obama to ask that the FL market be blocked from the buy.

There is no question that these ads were a clear and blatant violation of the early-state pledge that Senator Obama and Clinton signed.

The early state pledge was crystal clear in its prohibition against any kind of campaign activity (outside of FUNDRAISING) in states that did not adhere to the DNC calendar.

Among the list of prohibited activities are “electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state.” (According to Nielsen, there are 6.6 million TV households in Florida that receive CNN through either local cable systems or satellite dishes. This represents 92% of all Florida TV households.) The Obama campaign knew this, but chose to violate the pledge regardless.

So cyrena, once again you are caught playing loose and easy with the facts. Fundraising was not a prohibited activity in FL. SCORE ONE FOR HILLARY.

But electronic advertising was prohibited and Obama clearly engaged in that. NAUGHTY NAUGHTY. I think we should penalize Obama by counting the FL vote actually as it is.

MAYBE BEFORE YOU DO SO MUCH PONTIFICATING AND BSing YOU SHOULD JUST DO A GOOGLE.

I may be a lousy typist, but by and large I get the freaking facts correct. I’d rather be correct on my facts than spell lies, propaganda, and pure ca ca correctly.

Thank you for the lenghtly tonque lashing.  I promise my reply will be less winded.

Can you repeat that please?  Whew! you must have a LOT of time on your hands!  Sorry, but I don’t.

I’ll say it again, ALL politicians LIE!

I like Hillary and you like Barack, and after reading all stats you put forth on them both, I don’t know why either of us bother. 

Peace.

Outraged, you comment on God but no comment on destroying all whites???? Where’s your concern about that???? Apparently there is none!!!!

Can’t deal with the substance of my comment, eh, outraged? So you try diversion. Works for Obama. But I am not as easily duped as his adoring crowds.Good try though.

I know you explained the other thing Cyrena, but I’m still confused....  Can you explain these words to me I don’t think they taught me them in elementary school.

“cheaying”, “antidotal”, “Whay”, “satte”, “ppliticians”

In “bert’s iconoclastic verbiage:

“NO, I DON"T UNDERSTAND THAT !!!!!!!”

Cool Paracelsus, I like that. I love rural America, wherever it is.  Having been busy with the more cantankerous among us, I hadn’t had the chance to check them out earlier, I did notice your post though. Thanks!  A breath of fresh air…

Bert writes:

“....And you are right, the candidates only agreed, as you state, not to CAMPAIGN in FL. Yet Obama campaigned by running TV ads in FL. Whay was he not penalized....”

And, for about the umpteenth time, I respond with...Obama DID NOT campaign in Florida, and he didn’t run any of his OWN campaign ads in Florida.

RATHER, the ads that were televised in FLorida, were ads created by the DNC, and long before any campaigning actually began ANYWHERE! CBS and ABC chose to air those ads, as the basically now PRIVITIZED media that all networks have become. They didn’t ‘ask permission’ of the Obama campaign to air those ads, they just DID.

And, it wasn’t for long either. As soon as the Obama campaign got wind of it, they stopped airing them.

HILLARY was IN Florida, in the flesh, during the Florida primaries. She was in attendance at two PRIVATELY SPONSORED FUNDRAISERS. (read PAC’s)

I don’t know where Obama was at the time, but it damn sure wasn’t Florida.

April 3 at 4:50 am #

<<<<<<<<<< Florida vote

I had to be in Florida for during the primaries . . . I heard a lot about how HRC was perceived to have ‘cheated” by having her name on the ballot when everyone agreed not to campaign there . . .  >>>>>>>

SINCE OBAMA WAS ALSO ON THE BALLOT IN FLORIDA THEN HE CHEATED TOO.  Thanks for confirming that for all of us wordsonfire. 

Your hearing a lot about cheaying is only antidotal and as such pretty much meaningless.

And you are right, the candidates only agreed, as you state, not to CAMPAIGN in FL. Yet Obama campaigned by running TV ads in FL. Whay was he not penalized.

<<<<<<<<< Does everyone understand that Florida and Michigan made their beds and knew the consequences of their early primaries?  >>>>>>>

NO, I DON"T UNDERSTAND THAT !!!!!!!

The voters in MI and FL were at the mercy of their respective satte legislatures, ppliticians, and courts. The average voter had no say in the matter.

PLUS both NC and MV also broke the Dems rules but they were NOT penalized. So why FL and MI?

<<<<<<<<< Senator Clinton lied in a very self-serving way about events in a public appearance as a representative of the US.  >>>>>>>>>

Obama lied in a very self serving way in public appearances as a candidate for a U.S. office when he lied repeatedly about Wright. And he only fessed up after the tapes surfaced. Now that is self serving in a save my ass political way.

Plus no one is saying Obama has to pass a religious test. But he has, for many of us, has failed a judgement test. He remained a active memeber if this church and had Wright as a spiritual mentor and advisor.

BIT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO

You make a lot of good points. Maybe I feel that way because I am one of those white women Democrats over 40. I did not know that we make up the largest voting block in the country. Do oyu have a source for that. I knew that we have been voting consistently for Hillary. (Although originally I supported Edwards, but by the time my state held its primary election only 2 candidates were left and so I went with Hillary because as Joe in Maine so eloquently put it on a different thread here, “she can beat the snot’ out of McCain. And she can given the chance.

So thanks for the support and the great post.

<<<<<<<<<<< I think you mistake god with religion.  It is possible to believe in god without believing in any certain religion and the various credos? >>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think so. I do. While I am not religious I am spiritual. I am just not in to any organized religion.

lib in Texas

I’m curious… what makes you think I’m racist?

Outraged, Destroying the white race doesn’t even deserve a comment.  I see you racists calling everyone else that when in fact it is YOU!!!!!!

Well mill, Obama had twenty years to figure it out so my only conclusion is He like it!!!

Do you believe that Senator Obama holds the views that you assign to his alleged mentors?  Does he support or advocate their point of view?

You guilt by association attack on Senator Obama is unfair and misleading. 

Almost every national level politician has had the company of someone who’s beliefs or actions shock most people.

“So all you woman out there...” “Don’t fail Hillary or yourselves, you have the power and chance of a life time to make a huge difference in how woman who rightly belong have been shunned again and again due to male superiority and big ego’s and yes SEXISM! “

Simplistic sexist thinking is not the way to overcome the good-ol-boy sexism giving the NY Senator problems

I plan to vote for a candidate who wants to be president of the boys as well as the girls. if you are as she is, why would any male support your candidate, whether we are feminists or red-necks?

Senator Clinton lied in a very self-serving way about events in a public appearance as a representative of the US. 

Senator Obama, when he discusses anything about his religious life, suffers unwarranted intrusions into his First Amendment-protected private religious life, what ever the rationalizations by the inquisitors.  I’d rather he ignore any more questions about religion.  He’s not running for national pastor/rabbi/imam

The Constitution states there shall be no religious test for public office - if only.

I think you mistake god with religion.  It is possible to believe in god without believing in any certain religion and the various credos.

Well, “lib in Texas” you’ve got this partially correct.  It just goes to show you how religion divides instead of uniting people.  However this “killing of god” is directly the same as the killing of the “darker skinned Jesus”, which we know historically, is accurate.  White christian churches have definitely “killed the darker Jesus"(the historically accurate Jesus) and replaced him with a white Jesus.

Funny Chalmers, that you speak of “god’s love”. I thought you hated the Christian Zionists and the Israeli Jews.  You have consistently spoken out against them.  Which “god” are you talking about? You’ve claimed in the past to have “a spirituality” but not an actual god.  Have you changed your position?

By lib in texas, April 3: “Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community...”

“Righteousness” in English language white parlance once meant something like being spiritually sensitive. But usage over the generations has meant that ‘self-righteousness’ has utterly corrupted that ideal.

That is a lower state of mind altogether than any genuine spirituality. It has its basis in doing for oneself rather than for others. That is the great failing....

Spiritual complacency is not doing for others either, though, and that is where most churches, black and white are so limited. That’s only ‘good time’ religion.......

But perhaps the love of God is ‘destroying’ white cvilization anyway? Everything is in a state of flux and the next awful thing that poor downtrodden black Americans will have to face is a world ruled over by China and India.

If there is one thing these people DON’T have a problem with, it is the color of their skins. Pity those who would reject “god’s love”, though, lib in texas. That is at the very core of our existence - all of us!

Nobody can handle religion, Sue. Its basically over most peoples’ heads.......

here, here! I say, BRAVA!!!

“Reasonable people of average intelligence are NOT going to elect a president that has already proven, (by her Senatorial voting record) that she’s willing to sell every last one of us down the swamp in order to obtain the ‘POWER of the office’.”

If you think by your last sentence that this just applies to Hillary, than I question YOUR average intelligence on political figures.

What about Obams’s lie regarding Rev.Wright?

It seems that is a much larger conflict vs Hillary and her “sniper” story.

AMEN Sue. You tell it like it is. But your truth will fall on deaf ears here with many.

Oh yea, thats what it says.Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community
... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
Please Google this stuff yourself as I would love to be proved wrong.  Check out Jim Davis at News Max,
Rod Dreher, Dallas Morning News, Obama Mentors, James Cone,founder of black liberation theology, Kamau Kambon, N Carolina St University proffessor, Quote at Howard University “We have to exterminate white people” Khalid Adul Muhammad honored ancestor of Kambon, but someone with the name of Khalid is somehow involved in getting Obama into Harvard.

wordldNetDaily /april 3, 2008

Rev. Jeremiah Wright in interview last year on ‘Hannity and Colmes’
Barack Obama’s suddenly radioactive pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has defended himself against charges of anti-Americanism and racism by referring to his foundational philosophy, the “black liberation theology” of scholars such as James Cone, who regard Jesus Christ as a “black messiah” and blacks as “the chosen people” who will only accept a god who assists their aim of destroying the “white enemy.”

“If God is not for us and against white people,” writes Cone, “then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community.”

You sound bitter.

But, let me remind you also that Obama has told his share of little white lies too.

They all do, that’s politics for you.

And his very liberal voting record, (when he wasn’t voting “present") might turn out to be a burden to him.

I like Barack, don’t get me wrong, but he is not the saviour people like you make him out to be.

He’s a politician like the rest, capable of all you accuse Hillary as being.

End of story

Deal with it.

I had to be in Florida for during the primaries . . . I heard a lot about how HRC was perceived to have ‘cheated” by having her name on the ballot when everyone agreed not to campaign there . . .

Does everyone understand that Florida and Michigan made their beds and knew the consequences of their early primaries?

BTW did you hear the testimony of Goodling yesterday anyone?  Where she says “I broke a few rules.” and her examiner says “you broke a few laws, not rules, laws?” it was brilliant!

We still get to say it . . . that’s my theory Cyrena!!! 

I did an “amen sister” on the other thread and thought . . . hmmm I’m an athiest, can I still say it!

I decided not to disclaimer it, but am laughing now, because clearly you and I have very much in common in how we think and write!

m!

<<<<<<<<<< End of story. >>>>>>>>

Promise.

<<<<<<<<< connection between Hillary Clinton’s voting record, and her UNPOPULARITY with US citizens of all classes, ages, and genders, >>>>>>>

Gee, I didn’t think that a popular vote total (so far) of 12, 638, 126 Americans meant some one was unpopular.

By that calculation I guess 13, 355, 209 votes means you are unpopular too.

The reason you don’t like facts is they show how full of it you really are.

I decided to displayed some pics of Massachusetts countryside.

Mass Album

Bert hon, I think this was what Purple Girl was referring to about Hillary losing all hearts and minds of caring and intelligent people. Actually, she even said it in her post, and then vcjpolitics backed it up in her post, with this..

• “…Hillary Clinton lost what little residual integrity she had left when she voted in favor of both the Patriot Act and the Iraq War. She proceeded to compound her errors by trying to out-hawk the Republican hawks, ostensibly to show how “tough” and patriotic she was.’…

So, it’s not a ‘gem’ that anyone ‘made up’ – hon! It’s just the facts. It’s what is in the Congressional record!! You don’t even GET THAT, do you hon?

Now for at least the 3rd time, (maybe more) on just this thread only, the connection between Hillary Clinton’s voting record, and her UNPOPULARITY with US citizens of all classes, ages, and genders, amounts to stuff like this..

She voted for the illegal authorization to commit an aggressive invasion and occupation of another sovereign state. In this case. Iraq. THAT is one of the ‘votes’ that we’re talking about here bert hon, and it’s a whopper.

HRC also voted in FAVOR of the Patriot Act which has repealed the basic rights of citizens afforded by the Bill of Rights. That has been an obscene act of treason AGAINST THE AMERICAN POPULATION. In short bert, the Patriot Act was among the first undoings of the democracy as we knew it prior to the highjacking of our country by the gangsters that are continuing to hold us hostage. The Patriot Act is a crime against the Constitution of the USA, and Hillary was perfectly willing to go along with it.
Now this is important EVEN for those callous and uncaring among us, who don’t even care that millions of people have been left dead, or had their lives permanently destroyed by the illegal war on Iraq, which Hillary also approved.

Are you following this so far hon?

Yes, I could go on about the other ‘votes’ that Hillary has ‘racked up’ in her time in the US Senate, that affect not just New Yorkers, (her adopted state since 8 years ago, because we know that HER ‘home’ state is Arkansas). I could (again) mention her recent support for the Kyle-Lieberman amendment, which basically provides an authorization to attack Iran as well. (as does the original authorization to do war on Iraq). I could mention her approval of new bankruptcy legislation that has reigned even more strife and distress on millions of hard working Americans. I could mention her approval (vote) for a legislation that would allow lenders a supposed ‘cap’ as high as 30% on credit card interest. (that’s the one she said she voted for, but ‘hoped wouldn’t pass’).

I could mention many more of HRC’s votes for legislation that has put us all in danger, from terrorists and oligarchies. Her support for such measures has resulted in an economy that has left the entire nation in shattered tatters. (except for her ‘group’ of course).

But, this should do it for now bert. So lay off the sauce, and stop giving us all of these bullshit statistics on alleged votes in MI or FL that Hillary and the rest of us knew would not be recognized, before they even happened.

Reasonable people of average intelligence are NOT going to elect a president that has already proven, (by her Senatorial voting record) that she’s willing to sell every last one of us down the swamp in order to obtain the ‘POWER of the office’.

vjcpolitics..

I love it!!!

I would say AMEN, except that I’m an agnostic. So, whatever you can imagine to put in its place, that’s what I mean.

This is the best part…

“...For you to come up in here with this spurious sexism argument when there are women who are truly suffering from sexism and sexual harrassment is an insult and an affront."…

I hear ya loud and clear.

Amen!

This side of the Atlantic will get its own Maggie Thatcher then. The agenda rolls forward.

Well, this is helpful information CY. I never really.

Or, at least it’s interesting to know where the Tax-a-chusetts came from. It was long ago when I heard that, (over 20 years) and at the time, I was thinking of relocating there. But then, I realized I couldn’t afford it.

But, I like Massachusetts. It’s one of my favorite places. So, visits will have to suffice.

She attended a Bilderberg meeting at Lake Lanier, GA in 1998. I am sure she will have the best in security.

Jesse Ventura has the idea that the shadow government will have Obama assassinated.

“And unlike Obama’s totals the majority of Clinton’s votes are from Democrats and blue states. “

I’m an independent (small i) who is drawn to Senator Obama’s relatively positive ways.  If Senator Clinton is stronger to the Democratic party base, that gives to Senator McCain some people close to my point of view - I’m conflicted about the “I was sniped at” credibility of Senator Clinton at this point.

<<<<<<<< Hillary’s chance of Winning the Hearts & Minds of the Dem Base was Dashed as Soon as she started Voting in the Senate.  >>>>>>>>>

Well, hon, I’d like to know where you got that little gem? Make it up? Projecting your bias onto the rest of the electorate? Wishful thinking? Hope???

Hillary has won the hearts, minds, and voyes of a lot of Democrats.The facts are these:

From USA Election Polls:

TOTAL (w/o FL & MI - w/ caucuses and territories) O -12,891,604 C -12,217,745

TOTAL (w/ FL&MI;, w/caucuses)
O -13,460,645 C -13,403,104

TOTAL (w/o FL & MI - excludes caucuses)
O - 12,535,451 C -12,058,560

TOTAL (w/ FL & MI - excludes caucuses)
O -13,104,492 C -13,243,919

These numbers represent a virtual tie.

And unlike Obama’s totals the majority of Clinton’s votes are from Democrats and blue states.

Don’t confuse me with the facts, I already have my mind made up seems to be your and many Obamabots motto.

The nonpartisan Center for Media and Public Affairs has found that since last December, 83 percent of the reporting on Senator Obama was positive. Only 53 percent of the reporting on Senator Clinton was positive.

30% is a significant difference!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIcvcz9Dkps&eurl=ht tp://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/anti-hillary-media-bi as-proven/

----- and here ------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6jjj2YfEI&eurl=ht tp://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/anti-hillary-media-bi as-proven/

I personally liked when Bill Schneider kept trying to bring the issue back to the Obama talking point that Clinton will need super delagates to win. Dobbs would have none of it and said and pointed out the obvious. OBAMA CAN’T GET THE NUMBER OF DELEGATES NEEDED TO WIN EITHER SO HE TOO WILL NEED SUPER DELEGATES.

If Hillary were a man she’d be John McCain.

right on Sue Cook..
Black men could vote 1n 1868.  Women not for another 52 years August 1920.
Its time for a well educated, smart, experienced woman to be our next president.

What misandry?

Hillary has been the focus of sexism from day one.
It’s getting worse now because Marie is right, the male ego’s are starting to sweat.

Hillary is the woman for the job, and the time for a woman president is right now! If she loses, there won’t be another for a very long time if ever.

So all you woman out there, here’s your chance to make history!  Woman through Hillary can now boast a proper place in this up till now male dominated business world!

She wants this bad, and because of it she will work very hard for us.

Don’t fail Hillary or yourselves, you have the power and chance of a life time to make a huge difference in how woman who rightly belong have been shunned again and again due to male superiority and big ego’s and yes SEXISM!

Don’t listen to the media and polls, that’s what they’re hoping. Don’t listen to all the pettiness, it’s all nonsense!

WAKE UP!

Vote for Hillary!
Join the fight!

HILLARY 08’

Judging by what you wrote, there’s barely a hair-on-a-can-of-Coke’s difference between you and Justice Thomas. Prejudice? Ha! It just makes you stronger! Right?

Hey… are you going to be alright...?  Take care yourself and get some rest, we can hold down the fort, It’ll be harder but we can do it.

Sir/Madam, My original post said “cunt” but Truthdig in its infinite wisdom rejected it. Thank you anyway for your editorial help.

I can’t support that Bildeberger attendee. I have a sense of serenity knowing that voting for any major candidate is a waste of time as they are all networked into an agenda. I don’t have to waste time voting. I believe like Don Corleone that one’s real strength is in the family business. Ordinary politics will not solve social problems, but if you have an offer no one can refuse then you are well provided for. I know that if Clinton or McCain get elected that it won’t make feel like I failed in anyway. I refuse the house odds, and I won’t play with loaded dice. There is a calmness in that that frees up my energies to do other things.

That’s the best you can do? Accuse me of being a man because I am not goose-stepping behind your Queen? Because I am not crawling across the floor to kiss the hem of her garment? A male Republican, huh? I doubt a male Republican would’ve gone to prison for a month for civil disobedience. In fact, I doubt Hillary would either--so shove it, pal, “bitter” is generally the term Republican men use in demeaning outspoken women. Jerk.

collea-devi, Well thought out and I back you 100%.

look how divise this has all become . ..  her skills as a “uniter” are very substantial clearly . . .

Do I want her “uniting” with Mellon Scaife?  That’s a bad thing for all of us I’m pretty sure of it . . .

cshel718, you are spot on !!!
Black men could vote in 1868 women not until 1920!!

I would absolutely LOVE it if another woman was running.  The MSM wouldn’t know which way to turn.
Chris Mathews wouldn’t have any tingles running up his leg. That would be the perfect scenario. The women WHO are bitches wouldn’t know who to be against.  They’d have to ask their man!!!!!!!!!!!

Your a women ??? Sound much more like a republican to me. A male republican.  That was pretty bitter crap.  You DON"T have the right to belittle ANY WOMEN WHO BACKS HILLARY.  You are part of the the good ole bays club.  Your anger is pretty disgusting.

Get a grip. This isn’t the journalism of a news by-Get a grip. This isn’t the journalism of a news by-line. It’s opinion. And she’s raising an important issue that you should be entirely sympathetic to, were you not so wound up to a fever pitch with this campaign.

And speaking of “uninformed” commentary:

Either your memory is shockingly poor or unsurprisingly convenient, but all the pundits were predicting NH would be won decisively by Obama after his win in Iowa. It was, according to all but the very few hard-core Clinton advocates among the talking heads, the beginning of the end. Start up the band, Obama’s coronation was underway. Do you honestly not remember how stunned the MSM was that Hillary, who only a month before lead in polls in NH by 25 points, actually won? Marie 1, Cyrena 0.

Yes, the Bay State is indeed Massachusetts. I know you hear Tony Bennett crooning “by the bay” in your sleep, but we in MA have a copyright on Bay State. You need to be better informed. Marie 2, Cyrena 0.

There’s more, but I’m tired of keeping score.

Liz, As a formal NOW leader, you have all the bona fides to argue against Marie’s thesis, but instead you simply dismiss it. “This election is not about the old problems between the sexes. It’s about more than that.” Yes, of course, it’s “more than that.” But is pervasive and entrenched sexism not an important issue – all the more so because it has gone mostly “underground”, making it more insidious and harder to combat? You, of all people, should understand that. And isn’t it fair to point out the shadows on Plato’s cave wall that is HRC’s candidacy to make the case that sexism is far from defeated, but like insurgents in Iraq, the impulse has merely withdrawn into hiding, sniping when opportunity comes? The reason blogs and opinion columns enrich our thinking is because they look at the same things with a myriad of different perspectives and foci. I think Marie’s is worthwhile because it zeros in on one facet of today’s news: there is a growing chorus of big names calling for Hillary to quit the race, and, oddly enough, they are virtually all men. Does that tell us anything?

Don’t let your bitterness about Bush’s Iraq crimes cloud your judgment. Be happy that there are still voices calling attention the a cause you once held dear, because this isn’t an “old problem” if by that you mean “no longer a problem.” It’s very much with us.

Listen Sister,
Hillary’s chance of Winning the Hearts & Minds of the Dem Base was Dashed as Soon as she started Voting in the Senate. I was Po’ed when she supported the Iraqi INVASION (hostile Takeover), I was Po’ed with her Vote for the blanantly Obvious UnConsitutional “Patriot Act’ , I have been disgusted by th elack of Oversight from the Armed Services Comitte (con), and Most esp her silence regarding th eCrimes of this Adminsitration. I’d have still voted for her in ‘04, bu tnow I can’t stand her- She’s defected to the other side and is a covert Operative- Just review her REAL record!
As for her Being Picked On ( challenged further to prove herself) ....Do You Work in the Real World. I have worked in the Horse Industry- male dominated, I know what it is to have the Bar set intentionally Higher- but LOVE when I clear it with out so much as a Tick. and I have EARNED my Respect. it is not handed to me, Because “it’s Easy to Pick On A Girl”
I’m disgusted with woman who supporter her Just Because she has a Vagina! Reverse Sexism is Still Sexism.Feminist want Revenge, Libbers aren’t afraid to be judged- but would appreciate the Bar being at the same level (But LOVE when e Prove We are EQUALS)

^ nice post and here, here!

^ thought!

the sexist attitudes towards men in this article really offend me.
Queen Hillary has been given a wider berth to act out her selfish fantasy and active sabotage of Democratic party strength and unity than would be tolerated for any other hopeful. And I note that you failed to note the bullying threat to Madame speaker Pelosi from Clinton’s fat cats, in your Katha Pollitt brand of cuteness masking pettiness. How girly. and how about the shot to the “women of Camelot”. Some catty stuff there that doesn’t conform to your opening salvo attacking “certain anatomical attribute” like it was exclusively some kind of guy thing.

As a woman, from Pennsylvania, no less, may I suggest that perhaps what matters most about winning is based solely on character. Haven’t we had enough of this dirty, arrogant, selfish lying & bullying throughout the Bush years? And who wants to return to the sleazy era of the Clintons? Surely the Democrats would want to embrace a strong, resounding message, a meaningful and relevant identity and not the ultimately weak triangulation strategy that sells the soul for short term gain that marked the DLC brand of centrism. Women that rally around Clinton based on gender forfeit their greater humanity and insult all women who put character and decency above gender. It isn’t the odds that concerned many about Clinton’s ongoing campaign--it was the dirty, unethical sabotage and the aiding and abetting of the Mccain candidacy that outraged many on the left--regardless of gender...or race or anyother angle you want to pin to it.

So you don’t recognize me, eh?

Well, I’ll have you know that I’m a “soon-to-be RESIDENTIALLY CHALLENGED” elitist! So there!

And on top of that, I’m ALSO an elistist with pneumonia and no health insurance. (well except for medicare, and no real physicians accept that for much other than a ‘tip’ - not that I can really blame them.) They probably get like .47 cents after processing the paperwork.

So THERE!

OK, I have to fix myself a hot toddy now, and try figure out if there are any pneumonia remedies growing in the yard. (anybody’s yard).

Sure, I hear ya.  Except I don’t recognize you, aren’t you the ELITEST whatevertheycalledyou...?  LOL

Seriously… I found it hillarious.  So what type of elitest are you again..?  I couldn’t find it.

But Outraged, the ‘BEST’ man or woman almost NEVER wins.

I mean, if we think about it, isn’t that the upside down ‘standard of the times’ now?

Expat, there is some poetic irony in your statement here..

“...If one can’t stand the heat, then get out of the fire.  If anyone knows this; it’s Hillary."…

Hillary actually DOES know this!! I paraphrase from a recent interview..

“If a player is not ready (or able) to WIN the game, then the player should GET OFF THE FIELD!”

It was something very close to that.

So yes, she DOES know this, which makes us wonder all the more, why she doesn’t follow through with her own judgment.

BUT, it was her ‘same’ judgment that elected to say Yea, to the illegal war on Iraq. Obviously, she at least THOUGHT that she could or would ‘win’.

That she hasn’t recognized the error in all of these judgments, is only further proof of her unsuitability for the office that she seeks.

Anyway, not to repeat myself, (even though that’s what I’m doing) I too believe that she should continue her campaign. I think the Democrats will survive it, and it might even make us a better (and more united) party as a result.

It’s long past time to move it along, and get to PROGRESSIVE, and dump the ‘liberal’ lable anyway. I’ve long maintained that these ‘descriptives’ of conservative/liberal/traditional/etc, no longer provide accurate meaning, and far too much becomes lost in the translation.