“I DO appreciate very much, the Buddhist philosophy, IF in fact it can be considered a ‘religion’. So, if I had to ‘pick’ that’s what it would be.”
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Be careful Cyrena with picking Buddhism for a “religion” for the Buddhists in the Tibetan capital have been attacking China’s dominant Han ethnic groups and Chinese Muslims known as Hui and burning down their mosques. They are not the peaceful guys you think they are! It’s better for you to stay agnostic or atheist. Just a friendly advice!

cyrena, sounds like you are more comfortable in the class of agnostics who are uncertain and tends to believe in a god (force of nature, or The Force of Nature, with caps if it is preferred).  We, each of us, have to find our own way through this “mortal coil,” as the peerless William Shakespeare called it.  Life is tough, it is hard, and it is antipathetic.  I am quite existentialist about it.  Unless it drips in my face, I accept anyone’s life management system, regardless of whether it accepts religion as a way or not.  Aristotle once said the ‘way’ is wide and I believe it is.  We make it through as best we can.  I have some very insightful Christian friends, Muslim friends, Jewish friends, and eastern religious friends and of course, atheist friends, all of whom are brilliant and tolerant of other’s beliefs or non-beliefs.  I am completely comfortable in my absolute atheism chair.  However, when I intuit a pompous infringement on my or other’s beliefs or non-beliefs, I balk and sometimes make defining reactive statements, sometimes outrageously reactive statements, for I know these intolerants acutely and adversely affect my life and the lives of others by way of political agendas.

I consider myself an Atheist. Not so much because I do no tbelieve theri are forces greater than Us. But those forces do not Judge- only Act & respond to Waht we Do and don’t do.Call It A god or Just the Force of Nature. Either way we are at it’s mercy and held Responsible. Regardless who or What Placed Us at the top of the Evolutionary Chain- We are the Top ‘Dogs’, and thus responsible for the “Pack” and the conditions by Which ALL survives. We are the Stewads. Judgement will not come from an omnipotent entity, but from those who are Our Charges now and those who Follow. blaming any Entity such as a God or nature is Failing to take Responsiblity- thus a Dereliction of Duty. WE have been given a ‘Gift’, Not just the Planet and all it sustains- but the Mental and physical ability to Understand it and manage it. Instead we have spent our history fightin g& bickering over the ‘gift’ intead of Sharing It- Mother may come and just take it away- thus WE All Lose. We have denied the graciousness of the ‘gift’ and our Own Capablities - A ‘sin ‘ against either a God or Nature and all that this gift encompasses and it’s future.

As a counter aside, atheism is not a religion; it is the antithesis of religion.  You completely misunderstand the atheist position with respect to religion.  Not only that, and here is another aside:  there is a spectrum, a range as it were, from the position of non-believers to believers in a god.  I use the lower case of god on purpose out of respect really, as there are various religions that call their god by different names and have different conceptions.  The strongest atheists plain and simple say there is no evidence of an interacting supernatural being and they “know” this with the same degree of conviction as those who strongly believe there is a god.  Then you have atheists who say they cannot “know” for certain, but that there is a god is very improbable and they live their life on the assumption that there is none.  The next group could be called agnostic with a tendency towards atheism, that say they do not know whether a god exists but they tend to think not.  Then you have the 50 per centers (as per R. Dawkins), or the totally impartial agnostics, who say existence and non-existence of a god are exactly on the money equally probable.  There are those agnostics who are very uncertain, and tend to believe in a god.  Or, you have strong theists who hedges just a tad and holds the weak caveat that ‘they cannot know for certain’ but strongly believes and lives their lives as if there were.  Finally, you have the strongest theists who says they ‘know’ there is a god, somehow.  The burden of proof is always on those who claim the existence of something.  For those who are complete skeptics have nothing to prove by virtue of the concept of nothing, there is nothing there to prove. 

Everything else that is discussed is mumbo jumbo.  This and that fantastical explanation divulges a mental aberration in an attempt to explain what is really unexplainable in any cogent way.

zeitgeist, perhaps I am more kind to humans.  Self-serving interests are genetic.  However, a characteristic that conscious human beings evolved to have is the power to mediate that utter selfishness through understanding the benefit of altruistic intention.  I am atheistic seeing it superfluous and no need to sit on the fence of agnosticism.  This is a conscious choice, borne out of the human capacity to comprehend the human situation.  One cannot ‘naturally perceive’ what lies beyond the natural realm of the genes, it takes an unnatural consciousness to have such insight. 

I understand human history and our advancement from beast to minds capable of such cognition and abstract thought as exemplified by your very comments here.  It is irrelevant that irrational sacred concepts are placed in the hands of tyrants if there is only a solitary quest for whatever the Grail represents.  Seeing that organizations such as “the church” are dispensable for a happy and coexistent life would be the best path and I believe will eventually be the path taken. Humans make mistakes and I agree that the division between mind and body is the main problem arising out of ignorance that will be alleviated as the evolution of the human mind progresses. Sentience and consciousness take “time.” We are too anxious.

Sorry for the typos; this is an edited Copy of a previous post!
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This is indeed a good piece by Robert Scheer, and the best part of it, as I see it, is his bringing up the hypocrisy, split vision and double standards when comparing what fanatic Robertson and Hagee have been saying, without much reaction or condemnation, to what Rev. Jeremiah Wright said, with the exaggerated overreaction to his words, which he only took from the Bible that Christians believe it’s the word of God.

As an aside, I am really surprised how a nation whose majority population are Christians, whether practicing or not, resent someone reminding them that a loving God (or nature) can also be a God (or nature) of retribution or consequences when major sins, like mass killing in wars, are committed.  This is all in the Old Testament, as well as is in all monotheistic religions.

In fact, the concept of a God of Retribution is even older than the history of monotheistic religions. It originated among the ancient Greeks to whom we owe our imperfect democracy. Thus the Greeks believed in NEMESIS, the goddess or retribution, who punishes human transgression of the natural, right order of things and the arrogance that causes it. This is why the secular enlightened writer Chalmers Johnson entitled his excellent book, “NEMISIS: THE LAST DAYS OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC;” one of the best books I read lately.

And since I am at it, let me play the advocate of a god of retribution for the evils we did in the Iraqi ongoing 5-years old war. In Iraq, we met a presumed enemy, but it turned out to be that the enemy is us, with our so-called Commander-in-Chief, sitting cowardly in the artificial security of the White House, while sending young Americans and spending precious American treasury, to kill and destroy and to be killed and destroyed. And only a naive person would think that all this can happen without consequences. If we need to speak about the worsening economic situation in our country, we must by necessity connect it to the war in Iraq; otherwise we all will be hypocrites, with split vision, and like the ostriches which bury their heads in the sand!

Thank you Rev. J. Wright for reminding us about some very important, yet inconvenient truths!

This is indeed a good piece by Robert Scheer, and the best part of it, as I see it, is his bringing up the hypocricy, split vision and double standards when comparing what fanatic Robertson and Hagee have been saying, without much reaction or condemnation, to what Rev. Jeremiah Wright said, with the exaggerated overreaction to his words, which he only took from the Bible that Christians believe it’s the word of God.

As an aside, I am really surprised how a nation whose majority population are Christians, whether practicing or not, resent someone reminding them that a loving God (or nature) can also be a God (or nature) of ritribution or consequences when major sins, like mass killing in wars, are committed.  This is all in the Old Testamant, as well as is in all monotheistic religions.

In fact, the concept of a God of Ritribution is even older than the history of monotheistic religions. It originated among the ancient Greeks to whom we owe our imperfect democracy. Thus the Greeks believed in NEMESIS, the goddess or ritribution, who punishes human transgression of the natural, right order of things and the arrogance that causes it. This is why the secular enlightened writer Chalmers Johnson entitled his excellent book, “NEMISIS:THE LAST DAYS OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC;” one of the best books I read lately.

And since I am at it, let me play the advocate of a god of ritribution for the evils we did in the Iraqi ongoing 5-years old war. In Iraq, we met a presumed enemy, but it turned out to be that the enemy is us, with our so-called Commander-in-Chief, sitting cowardly in the artificial security of the White House, while sending young Americans and spending precious American treasury, to kill and destroy and to be killed and destroyed. And only a naive person would think that all this can happen without consequences. If we need to speak about the worsening economic situation in our country, we must by necessitty connect it to the war in Iraq, otherwise we all will be hypocrites, with split vision, and like the ostriches which bury their heads in the sand!

Thank you Rev. Jeremiah Wright for reminding us about some very important, though inconvenient truths!

Israel is no better, nor worse, than any of the world’s religions but particularly their co-generic Abrahamic religions of Christianity and Islam. Any militant religion is barbaric and uncivilized.  Religions who are about the business of their own should be able to do whatever they want as long as no one is hurt in any way.  Religions who use their dramatic stage to play a deadly game of politics is on the threshold of absurdity.

Christianity is a plagiarized, Egyptian dying god myth ‘Isis and Osiris’, which Christianized (Paulianized) Rome ripped from the pages of Jewish history and contorted that history into a self-serving story of their own, in the form of the new testament. This psychodrama was brought out of Egypt by Akhenaton, also known as Moses. Akhenaton was a religious iconoclast, whose myopic vision tossed the old Theban religious establishment onto its head, which resulted in violent upheaval, the cause for Moses’ expulsion. (The Exodus.)

The Imperialist desires of Rome, in order to compete with the diversity of existing Pagan mythos, designed to seduce the scattered flock in order it fall under a single umbrella, by creating their own version of Isis and Osiris, a new superman. On the heels of the newly Christianized Rome, in a genocidal pursuit and the interests of self preservation, Rome sought to route out and exterminate any remnants of the original story.

Today, the same rabid fanaticism, fill those very same sails driven by the lust for power and empire.

Much of the impetus for Zionism rode on the back of delirious Christian sympathies both in England and America, who in the throws of blind passion, sought to compel the fulfillment of their prophecy; thought it necessary to blast a chunk of earth out of Palestine in order for this to occur, this was and is a very fundamental undercurrent which subconsciously fanned the flames for the creation of an Israeli state and thus, influenced Zionist aspirations. This can not be ignored!

Where is Israel in all of this? Through a comfortably numb symbiosis, Israel continues as a surrogate in the clutches of its Neo-Roman host, whose ego, in 1948, had been stroked with the offer of a seat at the table of a neo-Roman empire, which continue today in the same imperialist aspirations of Constantine.

Once this is understood, it becomes clear that Israel is Israel in name only, but in reality it wears the same Roman coat of Constantine; embodied in the radical fundamentalism of the extreme right, the neo-Christian-Zionist; anyone thinking this to be utter nonsense, need only to listen to or read the ranting agenda of Pat Robertson, and his ilk. It is from this very same pack of wolves, ‘Roberson’s School for Religious Change in Government’, crusader Bush has chosen to pluck his warrior disciples from and fill bureaucratic positions around him. It is the injection of this toxic mix that continues to infuriates the region of Israel’s Arab brothers and sisters and it must be vetted, before there can be any attempt at reconciliation.

If your interested in pursuing this line of investigation, I recommend starting with Ahmed Osman’s ‘Stranger in the Valley of the Kings’ for the discovery here is pivotal to all else, followed by, ‘The House of the Messiah’.

Also Michael Baigent’s ‘The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception’ and his, ‘The Inquistion’.

Peace, Best Wishes and Hope

To read the headline of this column “War of the Word”
By Robert Scheer , one would expect a deep , intelligent , and enlightening discussion of the supposed role of God in conflict with actions taken both in this country and exerted abroad by The United States . I would have expected a real discourse highlighting “respected “ men and women of the clergy along with theologians . Instead , once again , Mr. Scheer takes the same avenue that he most usually does , asking an intelligent or intriguing question and then writing a column more suitable for PEOPLE MAGAZINE , than this forum .
Pat Robertson (?????????) is the # 1 focus of this bombshell argument ? I could even give some respect to this if it were Billy Graham , but Pat Robertson ? What don’t we know about Pat (many screws missing)Robertson ? Then we have a generalization (Called Scheer’s Specialization )that -” The prediction of God’s damnation for bad behavior is made in both black and white churches.”
Why not focus on the real , urgent issues this country faces and forget these so called “men of God” AND their rantings . If Pat Robertson did not get ME-dia attention , he would have been a nowhere man years ago . As for the Rev. Wright , I believe that little that he spoke was incorrect , just tainted by anger and frustration . Frustration among Mr. Obama’s close advisors is growing , as he attempts to be the 100% , politically correct choice candidate loved by 99.9% of the electorate .
If we want substance in these discussions , than we need to demand it , no matter who is writing or broadcasting the commentary . Robert Scheer may be the Editor of this “Journal” , but he is by no means an effective reporter with honest motives backing his columns , AND his once passionate social commentaries have been left behind for the sake of futile attempts at politician making or politician breaking . He can and should be focusing on important issues and leave the pulp to the tabloids .

I wish I had more time to discuss this all in length because I find this concept and topic so interesting and polarizing...I will have to simply post here the following:

I don’t know much about this man Tim Wise (if that is his real name)...a friend of mine forwarded the text of one of his essays to me...In it, he has articulated much of my own sentiments that I think are a great addition to the discussions here...the title is “Of National Lies and Racial Amnesia:
Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama, and the Audacity of Truth”

http://www.timwise.org

here is his website and you can find the link pretty easily under “Essay Archives” worth the 15 minutes to digest.

To all TDers:

I need to completely dispel any notion that Jesus is real.  He is.  The truth is, he lives two doors down from me.  He’s more than my personal saviour; he’s my personal friend.  And he loves you. 

He has asked me to ask you this favor.  He’s a little tired.  He’s in what he called a kind of witness protection program, like they had back then. He gets headaches. (I gave him some Head-On) He’s trying to live a quiet, hermit-like life, and would rather he be left out of our arguments so as not to aggrevate his condition.  I told him you’d never believe me but I promised I’d try.

Please don’t ask me any questions.  I love you all, too, but have to honor his wishes.

P.S.  PR is his hero.

Your comment about taxation is nonsense, Douglas.  And it is the epitome of conceit that you could say what your god wants me to learn and evolve.  More quasi-religious babble.  Your supposing the effects of 9/11 and its affect is completely artificial and you try to deceive with your utterly false claims.  Your rampancy is out of control.  If I have said nothing, then why would you bother to reply?  Are you in the habit of talking about nothing?  Yes.  The fact that Hurricane Katrina affected 70 million Mexicans or 300 million other Central Americans doesn’t really have much consequence for Americans in Louisiana.  That is another strawman example of which you are so adroit at making.  Of course the New Orleans population are still affected.  Not by the storm, but by the absolute ignorance of our government.  Keep the logic straight, won’t you?

Your mention of a mercenary army has no place in this discussion really, another smoke screen for no substantial argument to what I said.  Do take more time in thinking through what you are trying to say.

In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point. ~Nietzsche

Is man one of God’s blunders? Or is God one of man’s blunders? ~Nietzsche (Obviously the latter, since God is omnipotent and his plunders must be explained away by theological shenanigans.)

The Grand Inquisitor, (Chapter 5, Bratya Karamazova):

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pol116/grand.htm

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. ~George Washington (Spoken like an honest, pot-smoking Freemason of the old school.)

There are things about organized religion which I resent. Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace, but more blood has been shed in His name than any other figure in history. You show me one step forward in the name of religion and I’ll show you a hundred retrogressions. Remember, they were men of God who destroyed the educational treasures at Alexandria, who perpetrated the Inquisition in Spain, who burned the witches at Salem. Over 25,000 organized religions flourish on this planet, but the followers of each think all the others are miserably misguided and probably evil as well. ~Frank Sinatra (Croon on Frankie...)

Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. ~Ambrose Bierce (The part about ignorance would explain why religion is so popular in America these days.)

Christianity is a badly written collection of usurped and second hand myths.  The New Testament is mythological shite: there aren’t any good stories, it’s not even close to being internally (even mythologically) consistent, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.  And the Christians flat out stole the God of the Jews, who did some theological thieving of their own...but at least added something to it besides, “God used to be rather a pissy old bugger, but now he’s nice and happy and he loves us.

The Old Testament is at least worth reading, but all that could be good in the New Testament was purged by “good Christians”, the kind who would crucify Christ all over again because he’d tell them not to be Christians.

The last decent Christians were slaughtered during the Albigensian Crusade, and what we have left are the ones who did the slaughtering.

Moreover, God doesn’t exist because nobody can prove that He exists.  To “believe” in God is as intellectually weak as “believing” that Barack Obama will solve all of your problems.  No, it cannot be proven that God doesn’t exist...but all the fools who prance around talking about the fact that He does exist can’t even agree on what He is or what He stands for suggest that He is mankind’s biggest blunder.

The worst mistake the Jews made was creating such a thing about an unknown rabbi.  And the worst mistake that the Romans made was not procuring enough lions.