you show me one billionaire who made his fortune legitimately. for a case in point, read the history of bill gates and microsoft. that’s how billionaires becomes such. j p morgan, the duponts, vanderbilts, rockafeller, all of them criminals, liars cheats and frauds. larry ellison, murdock, schaife, and all the present one’s, same thing. you don’t get to that level unless you are corrupt and you are willing to ignore the rules, of law, and of consiounce.

The idea that Enron is gone, and Bear Sterns too, completely denies the human damage wrought by these debacles. If this did not happen to you, then it is so easy to say that the system works… never mind about the 30 billion dollar bail out guaranteed by the Federal Reserve, that is not capitalism that is corporate socialism, which guarantees that the ownership class get to be the ultimate welfare clients. Perhaps you should check out the great satiric novel JR by William Gaddis, who asked when does free enterprise become monopolized capitalism? But I gather you don’t believe in Gresham’s Law either.

Cyrena

The fact that mortgages are bought and sold is irrelevant.  Heck, my wife’s grandmother used to own a bunch.  For her it was usually a good stream of income.  That said, you didn’t reference if your interest rate doubled or tripled, or changed in any meaningful way.  The only way that a mortgage buyer could change the specifics of your mortgage, or any contract for that matter, is if you signalled consent, either through some action or your signature.

That is the law.  Do people always follow the law?  Of course not.  That is not a function of capitalism, it is a function of human nature.  And we have laws currently that will punish those that break them.  As with any crime, the real issue is the prosecution.  That said, it is still the buyer’s responsibility to understand what they are getting into, especially on the largest purchase they will ever make in their lives.

As for your final comment, regarding California energy….. atrocities???  Isn’t that a little strong??

“…The lending contract must spell out how the rates and when the rates can rise.  No one who pays their mortgage regularly and on-time would see an increase like that…”

You are incorrect here Voice of Truth, because I experienced EXACTLY this, beginning approximately 12 years ago, on a home that I purchased in 1992.
It was in Texas, where they make up the rules as they go along, and even when their practices violate the wording in the contract, the individual homeowner has limited if any recourse.

By the time I left my home 8 years later, the loan had been sold to 4 different lenders, and none of the original contract was intact. To suggest that one must be an idiot to sign such an agreement is not necessarily the case, because I am not. It is true however, that many hardworking people who purchase homes are not real estate or contract attorneys and cannot be expected to recognize the potential fraud in the fine print or the loopholes. As a general rule, these SAME people cannot afford attorneys (if they could even find one that wasn’t attached to the same fraud) to take these fraudsters to task. Why? The deregulation that thebeerdoctor speaks of, has made it possible for these fraudsters to act with impunity. And, nothing works better for them than chaos and instability.

So, the beerdoctor is correct, and you might wanna take a closer look at the atrocities that were perpetrated by the fake energy crises in California, because that has been the standard practice of the new capitalists. The mortgage crisis is no different. Just another fraud perpetrated against millions of Americans.

Zymologist

First, you are not quite correct about Enron, Bear, et al.  In fact, the market has worked perfectly.  Enron is gone, Bear is gone.  Just as their investors didn’t complain when their stock soared on their actions, I have no sympathy for them now that their investments are worthless.

As for my initial analysis, it is hardly not sufficient when put up against your counter-argument.  Lenders could not simply double and triple rates without a mechanism.  The lending contract must spell out how the rates and when the rates can rise.  No one who pays their mortgage regularly and on-time would see an increase like that.  In fact, I would ask you to provide proof that it happened.  My mortgage has a fixed rate of 5.5%, signed in Feb 2005, which is very low.  Even that rate, when doubled would be 11% and tripled would be 16.5%.  Anyone who signs a contract that would allow a mortgage to get that high is an idiot, plain and simple.

Therefore, I submit that your “analysis” is the insufficient one.  In fact, your post is really nothing more than a chance to rail against capitalism as a concept.

voice of truth, your analysis is not sufficient. Many people lost their homes due to the greed of the lenders doubling, sometimes tripling the interest rate of their loans, making it impossible for them to pay. Since the last few decades have been dedicated to turning back the regulations created by the New Deal in the great depression, much of the chaos has been created by the deregulation of banking and securities industries run amok. As for responsibility, does that also apply to Bear Sterns and J.P. Morgan Chase? Or how about the deregulation of energy that allowed the corrupt former Enron corporation to artificially produce brown outs in the state of California, in order to raise the price of electricity and natural gas. Is that the free market forces we hear being exalted by the supply side crowd that now sees oil at one hundred dollars a barrel? With great greed comes the possibility of great fraud. In a civilized world, profit would not be the final reason for existence.

It’s what actually built this country.  And please, please stop crying for those people who were “locked into bad mortgages they couldn’t afford.”  It was pure greed on their part to go for the bigger house!!!!

A house is most likely the largest purchase any of us will ever make.  If you take the time to understand what you are getting into, or to identify what you can and can not afford, then no amount of pressure or predation can force them to sign on.

The belief in personal responsibility, which I understand is shared by about 1 in 500 people on this site, is not something that can just be ignored!

“Capitalists want to keep all the profits, but share the poverty!” I think it’s more like, Capitalists want to keep all the profits, but outsource the poverty.

I have watched my little kitty cat run around urgently looking for this and that to do.  Do I want to find a toy to play with? Do I want some kippers on a plate?  Do I want daddy to throw a ball for me?  Do I want to be pet on whilst laying on my comfy kitty-cloud?  These and more are the questions that make an average day for her, constantly trying not to be greedy but to be happy.  I think the word is happy.

We are all trying to be happy.  Some of us are trying to be
happy by pleasing others and adding to the world around us and work diligently to make sure that all we do is the best it can be and correct ourselves when we fall short of this goal. We put ourselves in other peoples shoes we really do make even people in far away lands our bothers and sisters in our hearts and in consideration of our deeds.  We really do feel actual hurt when others hurt and we do what we can to help.  We are not perfect and flawless but we do our very best. 

Some of us, on the other hand, are basically sociopaths and we don’t give a damn what the consequences we do may be we just want to be happy just for ourselves.  If we have to deceive;  if we have to kill; if we have to destroy the dreams of nations and of the world; we don’t give a damn.  We want everything for us nothing for anyone else that we can possibly get for us.  We don’t care.  We love the thrill of power and work to take over all the governments and all business and deceive all the people we can so we have as much power as we can possibly have without any regard to anyone or anything.

My kitty cat knows that love is part of happiness and the stability of our home in some way she knows this is good for all of us and feels bad when I get sad or angry.  She has the sense to see what these blind power hungry idiots can’t see: that life itself has much more to offer us all if we all work together in love and harmony. 

The trick is for us good guys to stop falling for the deceptions of these freaks; these low-life scum.  They are nothing but thieves and have likely not earned anything they say they own.  This mortgage crisis is the product of crime not of greed or need for happiness.  It is the product of reckless psychopathic crime.  We must protect and inform all the kitty-cats—good people harmed—work to do anything and everything to keep their homes.  And we must make sure to the greatest extent possible that none of the crooks make out with the stolen loot.  They are not businessmen or billionaires or anything else they are just sociopathic criminals.  A pack of rabid dogs.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work to facilitate proper banking contributions to the solution.  But we have to look at the entire picture and learn from this—we cannot have a free country and allow the bribing of politicians it must be made a felony.  We cannot allow the press to be bought up by the defense industrial complex and a few others.  It must also be made a felony to have contrary interests in media I believe a method can be created to do so.  The press and information in general is too vital to our society.  It shouldn’t be possible for such grand massive crimes to occur as has occurred leading possibly to a worldwide depression for a the sake of a bunch of heartless criminals. 

The positive root of greed is the desire for happiness but sane and decent people want everyone to be happy not just themselves let’s learn from this so we can have a world full of joy.  It’s not impossible it is also quite natural we just continue to fall for the deceptions of the criminal power mad sociopaths who twist everything into the worst most evil forms.  Let’s stop doing that once and for all.  Let’s all be together in love joy and happiness in a free world with boundless harmony and possibilities doing so is the natural state of humans and the world.  This sociopathic back-stabbing blood-sucking version of the world is NOT natural.  Don’t let them fool you.

I was just thinking about how wonderful it would be to have such a rail system here in our country. The one in and throughout China is fantastic. Just incredibly efficient for modern times.

(no, I’m not much inclined to China’s politics, but then..ours aren’t a whole lot better.)

Anyway, I’m starting to give up that such a system could be erected in my lifetime, and that’s a damn shame. The allegedly most advanced country on the globe, and we don’t even have a decent rail system, and the air transportation system is completely broken, not to mention totally inefficient, in terms of what it costs to operate it.

Yes, we are going so far backward it’s hard to keep pace. Better to just step off the backward treadmill until such time as it starts moving forward again.

I’ll remain hopeful that I might at least see the beginnings of that.

Greed is really a natural thing, just like sex, lying, and a host of other things, in moderation. But there is a point where it becomes criminal and that point was passed a long time ago.
And since money is the most important thing and increases the greed in just about everyone that is confronted with huge amounts of it, then that should be where, unfortunately, laws need to constructed to control how much anyone person can have. If there are no limits, then it is the same as murder and declaring war on a person or people to keep them from being able to get enough to provide food, clothing, shelter, education, transportation… you know the necessities of life.
But this is just the basics of the matter and I doubt many people give a rats a** about it and thus I guess I don’t either.

I do believe the following applies to the current financial mess; “Capitalists want to keep all the profits, but share the poverty!”

Nonetheless, “greed” remains a heavily subjective and loaded term. I would not blame a person for trying to give his or her children a “leg up in life.” I would not consider this “greedy.” I also don’t mind if someone wants to live in a gated community. Such places aren’t for me, but I believe they have the right to make such choices, independent of whatever you or I may think of it.

I also don’t object to billionaires, as such. Many of them earned their billions legitimately. The problem comes (for me at least, as a libertarian) when those billions are earned illegitimately, through an “invisible handshake” with political connections.

Often, those who toss the word “greed” around are guilty of another negative emotion: “envy” (present company excepted, of course).

To demonstrate the subjective nature of greed, try to define just when someone has earned “too much.” Is it when they reach a six-figure income? When they have a net worth of a million? When they buy a Lexus? Or two Porsches?  What if a person earning six figures is trying to provide for his family and makes huge charitable donations to his church? Is he “greedy?” Who should have the power in society to determine just who is “greedy” and should therefore be punished? Is this a power we want anyone to have? (Not me.)

Wrtiter on the storm…

THANKS!! This is an excellant piece, and very helpful to me in terms of this whole study of society and the now expanding theme of globalization.

It recalls some work by Al Gore now that I think about it, on the Marketplace of Ideas, though I’ve not read it yet.

Anyway, thanks…

Paolo,

Your comment about the subjectivity of greed exposes the larger problem. When someone describes themselves and their family as apart from society(i.e. leg up in life), we get people justifying the excessive accumulation of wealth as a necessary evil. The gaited community, so prevalent among today’s “arrivists”, is an extension of their conviction that it is an us-against-them world, and they are just doing what they need to survive.

It’s interesting that the one place where the right truly embraces evolution is in the marketplace. Dog-eat-dog is more than an old expression. It carries with it an entire philosophy and world view. It doesn’t have to be this way. Other societies have decided that their poor need not be gaited out. And some even say that it is the greedy who must be sequestered.

This has always been more problematic in the US, since we are a society (perhaps the only one) that is held together by ideas, rather than the usual unifying principals of culture, race, religion, and language. Problematic, because one of the biggest of those unifying ideas is greed. If you can make someone money, it’s amazing how quickly they will put aside their differences with you.  The greater meaning of globalization is the exportation of this principal. But it carries with it another idea, this one pernicious and viral: that it is acceptable to treat others not as fellow travelers, but merely as tools for your own personal gain.

It is left to each society to decide where personal success ends and greed begins. In this society, men like Donald Trump are pushing the envelope. I know greed when I see it, be it greed for money, for power, or for fame. And I’m sure I speak for many when I say that I do not want to live in a society where I am nothing but The Donald’s tool.

Because of greed I was allowed to take care of the sick and injured today, even bought my own lunch, Chicken Salad on Sourdough, mmmm maybe dough wasn’t the right word. Guess I will go home and repent in front of everything greed has brought to me, just so I can return to work and take care of the sick and injured.

Ubuntu is an African word that not only denotes a Linux based OS for desktop, but the word roughly translates as “humanity to others”. This seems to be the problem when dealing with a morally charged word such as greed. Ideologues jump at the notion, from all spectra, claiming “socialist” or “class warfare” whenever anyone points out the inequity of distribution in the world. The hypocrisy of big business in this regards, is simply astounding. The same “leaner and meaner” crowd when it comes to employee wages and benefits, are the first in line to scream the loudest when they want the aide of the Big Government they always complain about, until the proverbial economic push, suddenly becomes a shove. Whether it is the airlines, auto companies, or banks… a national social rescue, via the tax payers, is perfectly fine when needed. This looting of the national (now basically virtual) treasury, in order to maintain the lifestyles of the ownership class, is more than likely, the greatest threat to national security.

The trouble with articles decrying “greed” is that one man’s “greed” is another man’s efforts to support his family. If I struggle through school, take on a mountain a debt, and become a rich, successful doctor or attorney who lives in a million dollar mansion and drives a Porsche—am I “greedy”?  What if I use my wealth help my children get a leg up in life? Is that “greed”?

Interestingly, politicians and the government are almost never portrayed as “greedy.” Isn’t there “greed” in government agencies that gobble up taxpayer dollars by the billions? Isn’t it “greedy” for those who run such fiefdoms to constantly insist on more and more extorted funding?

Interestingly, the worst fraud is committed by the government, hand-in-hand with a corporation known as the Federal Reserve—an institution which deals in sheer fraud through the manipulation of money and credit. Various politically connected corporations get to join in on the party (Bear Stearns, Enron, Chrysler—you name it).

I am not so much against “greed”—a slippery and subjective term if ever there was one—as I am against “fraud.”

It infuriates me the Focus on Rev Wright. I was not Offended, nor even doubtful regarding AIDS (Let’s remember the small POX infested Blankets, The Opium Dens of the Chinese labors- If nothing Else THEY IGNORED IT!). WE Were NOT hit on 9/11- THE CORPS were, they are the ones who placed OUR people in harms way- as intentioanlly as they have others around the World. The ‘Corporations called the USA’ should be the first line in thousands of Indictments
WE must also change the Rhetoric tha tallows Deception- and grants validity.
“Investors”- Gamblers on Paper Win the same ODDS of LOSING as Winning.
“The Federal Reserve”- Private Banking firms designed to beil out the gamblers. Which Company was instrumental in the ‘founding’ of this Money Changers Welfre Program- J.P. Morgan. 1934 was the year of the Hostile Corp Take Over Of US.