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 On His Own TermsPosted on Mar 21, 2008By E.J. Dionne WASHINGTON—Let’s ask the hard question about the Rev. Jeremiah Wright: Is he as far outside the African-American mainstream as many of us would like to think? Because Barack Obama’s speech on race in America was so candid about both the legitimacy of black and white grievances—and the flaws in those grievances—it carries the risk of offending almost everyone. The man who, by parentage, is half black and half white took it upon himself to explain each side’s story to the other. Obama resembled no one so much as the conciliatory sibling in a large and boisterous family shouting: “Please, please, will you listen to each other for a sec?” One of the least remarked upon passages in Obama’s speech is also one of the most important—and the part most relevant to the Wright controversy. There is, Obama said, a powerful anger in the black community rooted in “memories of humiliation and doubt” that “may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends” but “does find voice in the barbershop or the beauty shop or around the kitchen table. ... And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews.” Yes, black people say things about our country and its injustices to each other that they don’t say to those of us who are white. Whites also say things about blacks privately that they don’t say in front of their black friends or associates. One black leader who was capable of getting very angry indeed is the one now being invoked against Wright. His name is Martin Luther King Jr. An important book due out next month on King’s rhetoric by Barnard College professor Jonathan Rieder offers a more complex view of King than the sanitized version that is so popular, especially among conservative commentators. In “The Word of the Lord Is Upon Me,” Rieder—an admirer of King’s—notes that the civil rights icon was “not just a crossover artist but a code switcher who switched in and out of idioms as he moved between black and white audiences.” Listen to what King said about the Vietnam War at his own Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta on Feb. 4, 1968: “God didn’t call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. ... And we are criminals in that war. We’ve committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I’m going to continue to say it. And we won’t stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place.” King then predicted this response from the Almighty: “And if you don’t stop your reckless course, I’ll rise up and break the backbone of your power.” If today’s technology had existed back then, I would imagine the media playing quotations of that sort over and over. Right-wing commentators would use the material to argue that King was anti-American and to discredit his call for racial and class justice. King certainly angered a lot of people at the time. I cite King not to justify Wright’s damnation of America or his lunatic and pernicious theories, but to suggest that Obama’s pastor and his church are not so far outside the African-American mainstream as many would now suggest. I would also ask my conservative friends who praise King so lavishly to search their consciences and wonder if they would have stood up for him back in 1968. These are realities that Obama has forced us to confront, and they are painful. Wright was operating within a long tradition of African-American outrage, which is one reason why Obama could not walk away from his old pastor in the name of political survival. Obama’s personal closeness to Wright would have made such a move craven in any event. I’m a liberal and I loathe the anti-American things Wright said, precisely because I believe that the genius of our country is its capacity for self-correction. Progressivism and, yes, hope itself depend upon a belief that personal conversion and social change are possible, that flawed human beings are capable of transcending their pasts and their failings.
Obama understands the anger of whites as well as blacks, but he’s placed a bet on the other side of King’s legacy that converted rage into the search for a beloved community. This does not prove that Obama deserves to be president. It does mean that he deserves to be judged on his own terms and not by the ravings of an angry preacher.
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By marnie, March 25 at 3:25 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Rev. and others like him, are clearly not Christian. Spouting intolerance, anger and hate are not consistent with the teachings of Christ. Neither is spouting politics.
Unfortunately, their congregations must enjoy having their own bias’s woven into a faux Christian menage, or they would leave that congregation and find one that actually teaches and believes in the message of love and humility carried by the New Testament.
Ministries that spout politics should loose their tax exempt status, as they are now longer houses of God but are political aparachiks.
If they want then to clam a tax exempt nonprofit status as a PAC, that would at least be honest.
That so many ministries want to live with a political lie, in and of itself, means they have filed the test of Christianity.
Reply to this | Report thisBy ARTIST GENERAL, March 24 at 2:14 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
THE PARTY OF TURD BLOSSOM~FOLLOWED BY A MOONHAGEE...
“NO!” ‘EM --BY THEIR FRUITS:
THE GOP’S FAUX PROPHET WAR PHARISEES
...Oh, I’m bein followed by a MoonHagee, MoonHagee, MoonHagee,
leapin and hoppin on a MoonHagee, MoonHagee MoonHagee…
PULPIT NONFICTION FOR A CHANGE
RE:PUBLICAN---ON GOD & COUNTRY:
AGGREGATED GESTALT / FOREIGN & DOMESTIC
ASSAULT AND DINGBATTERY (INCLUDED)
...THERE’$ THE RUB ---NEW WRAPTURIAN$…
THE CHEESY MONKEY$ OF HOUSE BUSHELZEBUB
From http://buzzflash.com :
The Right’s billionaire anti-American pastor calls us the “Kingdom of Satan”
And what Hellbent Vision Thing,
its Truthless Power come round at last,
$louches towards Liberty to be Borne?
----"The Second Succumbing” ~AG Masley
(Apologies to W.B. Yeats ~ The Second Coming) posted by Sheila Samples
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3354/81/
THE DEVIL WEARS COULTER --BIGtime
I AM THE FATHER OF LIES. I AM THE GREAT DECEIVER.
MY BULLY PULPIT IS “INSTALLED"--I SCREW THEM IN LIKE LIGHTBULBS
“Believer” by “Believer...”
Dobson. Falwell, Robertson, Haggard…
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3354/81/
posted--comment # 7
GOING BY WARS ON A $HOWY EVENING
--Apologies to Robert Frost / Stopping By Woods On A Snowy Evening
Whose War$ these are I think I know.
His Cour$e is in the Pillage though;
He will not See me coming here
to watch his wars “fill up” with “$O?”
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/3354/81/
--posted: comment # 8
YES-WE-CAN~CRAMP THEIR GUILE
Reply to this | Report this“RADICAL ETHICS: NO BUCKS FROM WAR”
--’Seattle P-I Launches Payloaded Question’
http://artistgeneral.com
By bozhidar bob balkas, March 23 at 11:47 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
words such as antisemitism, racism, catholisism, judaism
do not refer to reality; i.,e., they cannot be seen, heard, tasted, touched, or smelled. whether it be communism, fascism, capitalism, socialism they refer to our wishful thinking; i., e., exist only in our heads. these words may be evaluated as labels or namecalling which not only do not elucidate such concepts but obnubilate them. so, what’s socialism? to rich people it is cancer; in other words, a generality is always answered by another generality; and both not only being useless for elucidation of what realy goes on but also extremely perilous for working class everywhere. so, what’s socialism to me? well, no land has the right to attack any other land under no circumstance; however, if a gov’t of any land, would use wmd or commited other crimes, then a warrant should be issued on his/her head. if not surrendering to world court, a ransom is put on his/her head. if $2-10 reward was put out for death or capture of saddam, he’d ran for protection to world court because he would have thought, I’m a dead man and ICJ does not give death panalties.
Reply to this | Report thissadly to say, it is a working person, housewife, who would (and have done it) say to me, What r u talking about. are u crazy? hey,folks do we have free speech or not? or is either-or structure applicable inthis case? in reality one cannot be antisemitic, antifascist, anticapitalist; one can be only against what a person, any person, does and not anti- ideologies consisting of billion of meanings. can any pearson be that capable to accurately, advequately describe and be factual about every detail that billions of people have in their heads? i also conclude that the masters of propaganda understand what i have just said but it’s my wife who does not.
some people suggest we stay on descriptive level; on level where one describes events such as a fire, treatmnet of blakcs by whites, whites by whtes, jews by pals, husbands by wives, etc. treatments by some husbands of their women; blacks by blakcs; whites byblacks; serbs by kosovars or kosovars by serbs etcetc., is well known by people who want to know. so, i need not enumerate facts or desrbibe events; bearing in mind, of course, that just because a statement is a description, it does’nt mean it is factual. mmore canbe said. thank u.
statements attributed to wright cannot be evaluated as description let alone as facts.
By M Henri Day, March 23 at 7:49 am #
(20 comments total)
The «hard question» to be asked with regard to Jeremiah Wright is not whether his views reflect a consensus among Blacks in the United States, but whether his analysis of, say, US policy in Southwest and Central Asia is more accurate than that of Barack Obama - or at least the AIPAC-seal-of-approval version which Senator Obama displays for public consumption. I strongly suspect that any objective historian of the region would be forced to agree with Reverend Wright. But as Henry Clay is said to have noted, being right is perhaps not the best way to become President....
Henri
Reply to this | Report thisBy Mike A, March 23 at 6:59 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
What's the Fuss About?
I’m still trying to figure out the error in what Jeremiah Wright said? Unless one is superstitious “Goddamn America...” is an expression of anger not a curse. The murders on September 11th, terrible and vile as they were, were only a small consequence for what American foreign policy has inflicted on others in the world. One need only recall another September 11th in Chile as an example.
Reply to this | Report thisThere’s some serious hypocrisy going on in America and it’s time for people to wake up and “get real”.
By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 23 at 3:42 am #
(545 comments total)
Self-correction?
Here’s an idea re: “self correction”:
How about after the election we change the name of this duck that looks like, sounds like and walks like America?
If something goes sour, you change its name hoping people can forget the negative.
If for no other reason, the white euro-male image in the name has become a self-fulfilling prophecy and needs to go.
I’m sure there are a lot of creative people who could come up with an appopriate name for a country that prides itself on being free, egalitarian, united under a constitution and powered by its own citizens--on no uncertain terms.
Please, nothing like “The Plutocratic States of Bush”
BTW, IMO this country will self-correct when the Yellowstone caldron finally blows.
Reply to this | Report thisBy KS in MA, March 22 at 11:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
If you listen to any of Jeremiah Wright’s complete sermons, not just the sound bites, you’ll see that he was not merely making topical comments about America; he was explicating the Bible-- and not just “safe,” “feel-good” parts of the Bible, but very difficult parts of it that express very inconvenient truths, such as the idea that God is not necessarily loyal to any particular nation-state, even our own. That’s what preachers do. And that’s why, very often, their words give offense-- to someone, or even to everyone. I’m saddened that almost nobody who has commented on Wright’s sermons seems to understand this. His sermons simply cannot be understood as if they were political speeches. They’re not. --And, if you would like to read one of Wright’s more “temperate” sermons, Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic has posted the text of his “Audacity to Hope” sermon, the one that gave Obama the title of his second book. It’s well worth reading.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy bert, March 24 at 8:13 pm #
(679 comments total)
Reply to KS in MA
This is all a wonderful exercise in intellectual thought. However, these ‘sound bites’ have been interjected into the middle of a Presidential election. And they very well may, in fact, I believe they will, cost the Democrats the election in November. If and when that happens you can have four more years of discussion with no one in a position of power to one, listen, two, care, and three act on this issue.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy cyrena, March 25 at 2:31 am #
(4023 comments total)
Re: Reply to KS in MA
Gee Bert, I WONDER WHO DID THAT?
The ‘interjection’ of these sound bytes that is, from a sermon preached 6 years ago - into the middle of a Presidential Election?
What hysterical rhetoric you claim. And, based on all of your previous posts, YOU were most ANXIOUS for this to be ‘interjected into the middle of a presidential election’.
Too bad it backfired on you.
Thank Mother Nature the Democrats can still win the office IN SPITE of destructive people like you.
Report thisBy rsmatesic, March 22 at 8:32 pm #
(17 comments total)
Fellow geniuses, I give you, E.J. DIONNE!!!:
“I’m a liberal and I loathe the anti-American things Wright said, precisely because I believe that the genius of our country is its capacity for self-correction.”
Genius? Self-correction? You mean that little voice in our MENSA-certified collective consciousness that ever since Vietnam has stayed our hand whenever the impulse arises to murder and maim non-English speaking persons of color? You know, the less mentally endowed folks who stand between us and our lust for global market domination, and who otherwise provoke our general homicidal tendencies? Who used to live (before we killed them) in Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, et al?
Didn’t think so.
Reply to this | Report thisBy dublin yank, March 22 at 2:37 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Hillary Clinton's Contributions to the Northern Ireland Peace
The IRISH AMERICA April/May issue pays a fine tribute to Bill and Hillary Clinton’s efforts in the Northern Ireland peace process. This has not been acknowledged by our media, which has tended to favor Senator Obama.
On page 65, the magazine states: “As major supporters of the Irish peace process, Bill and Hillary Clinton moved mountains. The 42nd president of the United States took the strongest position on Irish issues ever taken by an American president.”
In March 1966, President Clinton was IRISH AMERICA’s Irish-American of the Year.
In March 2007, Senator Hillary Clinton was named IRISH AMERICA’s Person of the Year.
Senator Clinton will bring to the presidency a personal culture of superior intelligence and the respect of many nations around the world.
Senator Obama has many talents but he needs more exposure and experience.
It’s time to give an American woman the opportunity to lead our great nation.
Reply to this | Report thisBy whyzowl1, March 22 at 10:37 am #
(18 comments total)
With a Whimper...
Honestly, don’t the mewlings of “mainstream” liberals like E.J. Dionne just make you wanna puke? The bottom line is: Whitey doesn’t “get it;” Whitey never “got it;” and Whitey never is going to “get it,” because “getting it” would require him to admit to himself—and crucially, to others—that he is a monster. It’s a rare man indeed who is capable of the penetrating insight and pitiless self-examination necessary to see that “we” are the ultimate source of all of our problems. Needless to say, E.J. has been tested and found wanting.
And now, back to the inferno…
Reply to this | Report thisBy Maani, March 22 at 6:22 am #
(1254 comments total)
JS:
“And before we spend all our time calling the kettle black, we might want to do a little reading about “The Fellowship” (or “The Family"). A very right wing, fundamentalist organization that operates in secret to further the political power goals of the elite. An organization that Sen Clinton has been a member of since 1993.”
This is straight out of the Obama tit-for-tat playbook.
The Family (and the Fellowship) are bipartisan; there is nothing “nefarious” or “sinister” about a Democrat learning and praying with (ohmigod!) Republicans. Hillary has not been a member of the Family for 20 years, and has not attended nearly as many of the “services” of the Family as Obama has at Trinity. She was not married by David Coe. Her child was not baptized by David Coe. David Coe is not her “spiritual advisor.” She does not consider David Coe “family” the way Obama does Rev. Wright.
There is ZERO similarity here. Stop grasping at straws.
That said, I have no problem with MOST of the things Wright has said; they are, indeed, hard truths. It is the WAY that he says them that is “wrong.” As I have said before, moral outrage and righteous indignation are perfectly appropriate reactions to various injustices and moral wrongs. But Wright’s approach is self-defeating, especially if one of the “goals” is to turn words into action. After all, MLK did not need to resort to incendiary, inflammatory and off-putting language in order to express HIS moral outrage and righteous indignation. And he got RESULTS; his words became action. Similarly with Gandhi, one of the most soft-spoken leaders in history, whose words and actions changed a nation of over 500 million people - without rancor or insult of any kind.
Wright may be in a “tradition” of black church leaders in expressing his moral outrage the way he does. and if the “change” he wants to effect is local, then he may well be a truly effective leader. But if his goal is to effect change on a broader level - nationally - then his incendiary language is self-defeating. Because while his “approach” may “play well” WITHIN the black church community, it does NOT “play well” in the broader national sense.
Peace.
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy cyrena, March 23 at 12:05 am #
(4023 comments total)
Re:
Maani...you’re at it again…
“This is straight out of the Obama tit-for-tat playbook.”
How do you get off saying that this came from Obama? He didn’t come up with this organization? He wasn’t around when Hillary joined up!
Maani, please shut up. We’re tired of talking about Rev. Wright now. I didn’t know him before a month ago, and outside of Chicago, (or the church community) I suspect that most folks didn’t.
He DID visit the White House when the Clinton’s lived there, (as their guest) but ya know Maani, most of us don’t even CARE ABOUT THAT!
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy Maani, March 23 at 6:10 am #
(1254 comments total)
Re: Re:
Cyrena:
“How do you get off saying that this came from Obama? He didn’t come up with this organization? He wasn’t around when Hillary joined up!”
Once again, you show how obtuse you are. My comment - “This is straight out of the Obama tit-for-tat playbook” - does not imply that it “came from” Obama, only that it is a tactic used by Obama and his supporters: i.e., if something arises that “hurts” your candidacy, attempt to level an “equal” (or greater) charge against the other candidate.
You really are a piece of work.
Peace. (of work)
Report thisBy jackpine savage, March 22 at 9:40 am #
(661 comments total)
Re:
No, Maani, that comment has nothing to to with any Obama playbook. That comment has everything to do with what i’ve learned about the “the Family”; as it has actually injected itself into policy and it has provided support to dictators...as it was founded by an anti-Communist, anti-union preacher...and as it is mostly (but not wholly) populated by the most right wing of the right wing elite. And i have some issues with secret societies...not as much as you and your NWO fetish (though you strangely support a candidate who’s husband worked so hard to fulfill the plans of such a thing if it does exist)
I would be most happy with an atheist or agnostic President, but i ain’t gonna get it. I have never been to church, and i’m not ever going to go to church...it’s a crutch. And most of them are filled with lies. If Jesus Christ was here today, he wouldn’t be a Christian...we can be damned sure of that.
And MLK did use some pretty heavy language if you listen to the full extent of his sermons. Wright wasn’t telling anyone to go kill Whitey…
I don’t give a rat’s ass how it plays in the broader national sense or how it plays among Clinton supporters or how it plays in the black community.
I’ve come to the point where i won’t be voting for any of these clowns; i’ve never “supported” any of them anyhow...prefer is not the same thing as support. I’ve hated both Clintons since 1992, for reasons that have nothing to do with nonexistent “VRWC’s”. This campaign has only cemented that feeling...and her supporters are like pouring gasoline on a bonfire.
I hope that she wins the nomination, i really do. I can’t wait to read the Barrett Report in full. I can’t wait to watch the Republicans attack her. I can’t wait to hear how Bill explains the pardoning of FALN terrorists. I can’t wait to hear her “it’s not fair” speeches. I can’t wait see her tears. I can’t wait to hear from people like you how we need to support her, for the good of the country and all that jazz.
Not me, i’m going to laugh and laugh and laugh...and write in Samuel Clemens come November. I’m not a Democrat. And i fail to see how John McCain will be any worse than Hillary Clinton (at least he might pleasantly surprise us once he’s released from pandering to the Republican base). I have no reason to think that Hillary’s administration will be any less incompetent than her husband’s was. Moreover, the shit-storm headed our way won’t be solved by any of them. A good portion of it is Bill Clinton’s fault, so it would be poetic justice for it to land in Hillary’s lap.
Good luck and Go Hillary
Reply to this | Report thisBy VillageElder, March 21 at 3:21 pm #
(99 comments total)
It seems that any time a black person speaks out a media storm ensues. Forty years ago with SNCC, Black Power, Malcom X and on and on harsh criticism of these United States by a Black person put the talking heads into a tizzy.
I’ve often wondered by there is no endless cycling of the white right wing nut preachers comments coupled with the proper hand wringing and pronouncements. During the Reagan years Falwell, Robertson and other were rewarded for calling for the downing of the government due to the usual suspects: abortionists, sex educators, humanists, godless communists, homosexuals, rebellious women and etc..
This link sheds a bit of historical light on the gathering of the ecclesiastical storm of bigotry and condemnation and how it was rewarded by the repuglicans as part of their wedge strategy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-m inister-committe_b_91774.html
a far from complete look, but an interesting entry . . .
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy cyrena, March 22 at 12:27 am #
(4023 comments total)
Re:
VillegeElder,
Thanks for the huffington link. I don’t generally read her much anymore, but this was an excellent piece.
Wedge strategy indeed. I think the author describes very well what he and his dad were..instigators and agitators.
Reply to this | Report thisBy cyrena, March 21 at 4:24 pm #
(4023 comments total)
Re:
This reminds me of a ‘cartoon’ included on a poster announcement for a conference on Racial Profiling that took place a few years ago.
The drawing includes a car stopped at the curb, and a very tall female police officer addressing a short black guy, (looked like a teenager)as he stood beside what was apparently his vehicle..
The caption is the officer telling him,
“I knew you were up to no good as soon as I saw you were black”.
And then there’s the video of a Dick Gregory routine that I received in my email the other day. In a portion of it, he describes driving down a New Jersey turnpike, and noticing (in his rearview mirror) a police vehicle approaching from behind. He relates the immediate fear and apprehension, including the ‘white knuckled’ grasping of the steering wheel, and the beads of sweat popping out all over. And then he describes first the relief at the fact that the police vehicle continues on past him, and then the rage at the realization that, HE HADN’T DONE ANYTHING WRONG, so why the hell was he so worked up and frightened at the sight of the police car, assuming himself to be the target.
And, it’s ALL real. Happens all day, every day, somewhere in America.
It also reminds me of the fact that many other people of the world have been paying very close attention to this 300 year old phenomenon in America. I remember seeing a film “The Power of Nightmares” that told the story of Sayyid Qutb, who is most often noted as sort of the father to what would later become the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, even though he did not form or even belong to the group himself. He spent time in the US, and one of the many things that stuck him, (unfavorably) about the US, was its treatment of its own African-American citizens. He noted that a foreigner (of African descent) received far more respect and dignity as a human being, than those blacks in the US. That, (among many other things, including the fact that he was a bit odd himself) led to what would later become a very negative attitude toward the US and the West in general.
He’s definitely not the only one who has continued to observe this.
Needless to say, that’s what makes it such a farce for any member of the US government to pretend to pay any sort of lip service to human rights abuses in other nations.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Margaret Currey, March 21 at 1:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Rev. Wright
The Rev. was talking about the black experience and he was mostly right, most people do not know about the lynchings which happen up until 1935 and maybe even after that, after all a black man in Texas was dragged to his death, not a lynching but a death that should not have happened, the south is still anti black, what happened in Jenna, Louisiana was race related and this happens in the south more than people want to acknowledge.
What happend in Fla. was a discrace especially if one realizes that Bush won the governorship in Texas by a whispering compaign, the lady was gay.
And he got the Republician state of Fla. by hook and crook, many people were thrown of the rolls because of the fact that they might have been in jail, but a lot of people with similar names were also thrown of the rolls, and I know this because it happened to a relative of mine who had never been in jail in her life.
What I am really saying is that don’t listen to the spin that these talk jockies are saying because they just like to hear their own voice and are getting paid to hear their own voices, and the news station are a corporation and I don’t need to say more on the subject.
My main concern is don’t let George Bush win again.
Because McCain is another George Bush with smaller ears.
Reply to this | Report thisBy republicanSScareme, March 21 at 12:37 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Poor Reverand Wright. Everything he said was true. The Zionist traitors are out to get him.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Thomas Billis, March 21 at 12:32 pm #
(210 comments total)
EJ and raving
I guess anyone who expresses any anger at being a second class citizen for 230 years is a raving lunatic.I guess as you are being lynched you should be singing the Star Spangled Banner.Who would have thought the United States would infect black people with syphillis to test its effects.Why not just tell the Jews to get over the whole Hitler experience rather than raving about it all the time.America rather than coming to grips about its racist past would rather just forget about it.Instead of contemplating it anyone who brings it up is called a raver.This by so called liberal friends.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy felicity, March 21 at 1:27 pm #
(305 comments total)
Re: EJ and raving
Could you specify which of what you cited are the ravings of your liberal friends?
Reply to this | Report thisBy JasonK, March 21 at 11:24 am #
(1 comments total)
About the Rev. Jeremiah Wright
Please listen to the whole “Chickens coming home…” sermon. (it’s only 10 minutes long), and you will see that he was actually quoting someone else who was quoting Malcolm X. In context, the sermon is totally different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
Reply to this | Report thisBy JasonK, March 21 at 11:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
About the Rev. Jeremiah Wright
Please listen to the whole “Chickens coming home…” sermon. (it’s only 10 minutes long), and you will see that
He was actually quoting someone else who was quoting Malcolm X. In context, the sermon is totally different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
Reply to this | Report thisBy felicity, March 21 at 10:36 am #
(305 comments total)
Well, well
so Wright’s homily didn’t offend (me either) or I guess most of the posters on this blog.
So just exactly who were offended and why. Anybody out there? Does anybody suppose that this HUGE, to quote the media, ‘problem’ of the errant preacher and his close friend and apparent mentee is solely a media creation aided and abetted by Reps and Clinton plants? Surely you jest, Felicity.
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy bert, March 24 at 9:25 pm #
(679 comments total)
Reply to felicity
felicity: “So just exactly who were offended and why. Anybody out there? Does anybody suppose that this HUGE, to quote the media, ‘problem’ of the errant preacher and his close friend and apparent mentee is solely a media creation aided and abetted by Reps and Clinton plants? Surely you jest, Felicity.”
Well, maybe a majority of Americans. You think????? Plus just do a google search. It won’t take long to see how many Americans were insulted.
Check out the link at the bottom of this post for the full survey. Here is a brief part of the survey results from Insider Advantage Polling:
First, we screened poll respondents to find those who were aware that Obama’s pastor was in the news. A startling 82% knew about Obama’s speech, and about the controversy surrounding the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Of those who knew about the controversy and the speech, we asked, “Taking all this into account, are you more or less likely to support Obama for president?”
Less likely (52%)
More likely (19%)
About the same (27%)
No opinion (2%)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fnews/1991108/posts
Reply to this | Report thisBy cyrena, March 21 at 4:59 pm #
(4023 comments total)
Re: Well, well
• “Surely you jest, Felicity.”
Felicity,
I had to chuckle…
In a nutshell, (and I think Thomas Billis said it well) MOST folks are not offended by this sermon, except of course for the non-thinkers.
But, it’s not JUST the ‘non-thinkers’ because there are a handful of posters on this site, who have used it for the same purposes that it was designed and perpetrated by the media. It’s just one of many. And, they aren’t so much ‘non-thinkers’ as they are intentionally treacherous, which DOES involve a level of thinking...deceit being the goal.. They perpetrate the below tactics, voluntarily or maybe they are paid by the Hillary campaign:
The story and link below provide a list of only a few.
Hillary Clinton’s Campaign IEDs (Insinuations, Exaggerations and Distortions)
By Stephen Pizzo, News for Real. Posted March 17, 2008.
The Clintons have built their entire political lives on the premise that if they can’t win pretty, they’ll settle for winning ugly.
What are you going to do if Hillary Clinton succeeds bagging the Democratic Party nomination for President by playing dirty?
I’ve begun thinking about that more and more over the last couple of weeks. The Clintons have built their entire political lives on the premise that, if they can’t win pretty, they’ll settle for winning ugly.
Which is why things have gotten so ugly lately. Once it became clear she could not beat Obama in a fair fight they switched tactics. IED’s (Insinuations, Exaggerations and Distortions) are now the weapons of choice for the Clinton campaign. Hardly a day goes by now when one of these IEDs doesn’t explode into the news.
“Is Obama a Muslim.” Hillary was asked on 60-Minutes. “No. Not as far as I know,” she replied.
BOOM!
“Obama is not ready to become Commander-in-Chief,” Hillary warns then coyly adds, if voters on the fence pick her, she’d consider putting Obama a heartbeat away from becoming Commander-in-Chief.
BOOM!
“I have crossed the threshold and met the national security test to be Commander-in-Chief,” Hillary says. “John McCain has also met that test. Obama gave a speech.”
BOOM!
“The reason Obama has gotten where he is today is because he’s black,” pronounced Clinton supporter and finance committee big shot, Geraldine Ferraro.
BOOM!
BTW—that was not the first time Ferraro set off a racial IED in the midst of a presidential primary. A Ferraro flashback:
“If Jesse Jackson were not black, he wouldn’t be in the race,” she said.
More at the link
http://www.alternet.org/election08/79869
Now on THIS blog, the plants/trolls have become overwhelmingly obvious, because they take every single opportunity to distort, twist, or less- than- subtly imply something that isn’t.
They include Maani, bert, lib in Texas, Douglas Chalmers, Jacob Freeze, Joe in Maine, and assorted others who pop in and out to drop their hate infused bombs. Some are more obvious than others, and so there’s always the guess on whether or not they really are that ignorant, or if it’s just the perfidy and mendacity creating the stench.
So, that’s just a BOLO on them. The biggest question for a few of them is whether or not they’re actually Hillary supporters, or if they’re just trolls in the mix to damage Obama, caring little about who actually wins, as long as it isn’t him.
It would appear from the posts though, that racial bigotry is at the heart of it.
As for the rest of us dwelling in reality, we might be ‘offended’ by many things, but the truth ain’t one of ‘em.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Aegrus, March 21 at 11:00 am #
(686 comments total)
Re: Well, well
The only people offended were the non-thinkers who still follow everything the televised opinionists say. Those are the only people so uninformed as to believe thirty second clips equate to thirty years worth of sermons.
These politically-charged personalities on TV wouldn’t even let the issue die after Barack successfully quashed the idea his beliefs coincided with what was said in the sound bytes. These idiot-box politojockies have nothing else on the agenda (and weren’t prepared for a deft defense from Obama), so they keep beating the story even though it is effectively nullified of any validity.
It doesn’t matter what people really think, so long as you can have complete access to the airwaves to repeat two or three lines ad nauseum. That’s the Sean Hannity logic.
Reply to this | Report thisBy BobZ, March 21 at 9:45 am #
(88 comments total)
Wright speaking to the choir
I can’t believe how the media and the right wing have inflated this issue to such huge proportions. I listened to the sound bites of Wright and actually laughed at how ludicrous it was that his comments were being made an issue. Only in America can we get so self rightheous about an inner city pastor speaking about past injustices to black people in America. Did we all forget about what we learned in American history? It is apparent the media is trying to create controversy about issues like this because they perceive the public is bored by discussions on the real issues like Iraq, the economy, and health care. It’s one thing for Fox News to be all over this idiocy, but CNN, MNBC, and the big three are also in a feeding frenzy. In a way, it’s an insult to all of us to think that we aren’t intelligent enough to discern real issues from manufactured issues. I just hope we aren’t going to be faced with one after another of this type of baloney. it’s a disservice to all of us.
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy 1twenty1, March 21 at 3:28 pm #
(55 comments total)
Re: Wright speaking to the choir
Get real BobZ. Where have you been the last two decades. MSM stands for ‘Mindless Showy Misinformation’. Even PBS and NPR are corrupted and tweaked by plutocratic bureaucrats.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, March 21 at 9:58 am #
(545 comments total)
Re: But, BobZ
But Bob, this is THE issue.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Israel G., March 21 at 9:33 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Are White Scholars also "Anti-American"?
Dear E.J. Dionne:
White America eagerly condemns Rev. Wright for his comments regarding America’s unjust foreign policies,. His arguments about America’s state sponsored terrorism and support of South Africa’s Apartheid, Israeli occupation, among others are well documented in many books and articles that are authored by scholars and journalists. I am a black professional, who over the past 20 years have read the works of Professor Noam Chomsky, Prof. Michael Parenti, Howard Zinn, Professor Robert Trivers, Tom Paulin, Dr. Edward Miller, Dr. Norman Finkelstein, Columnist Charlie Reese, John Mearsheimer, Stephen Walt, and others. These authors have several things in common: They are white, male, American and critics of US foreign policy. Thus, how can you label Rev. Wrigt a racist for criticizing US foreign policy while ignoring whites who do so? Further, to argue that Black Americans exclusively share these sentiments reveals how clueless you and others are that many White Americans do too. In fact, most Black Americans are not aware of the authors I have cited here. Take a look at black publications and books and you will find that the only constant controversial subject of discussion is RACE. Black scholars rarely, if ever, examine or criticize US foreign policy but limit their critical assessments to the issue of racial discrimination. To make my point, Tavis Smiley’s annual State of Black America narrowly focuses on domestic issues of black people, US foreign policy as it relates to Africa or any part of the world is excluded.
In the end, you should re-examine your position about the general black population’ views on US foreign policy because as I have stated, there seem to be none.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Sid, March 21 at 9:07 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
About the Rev. Jeremiah Wright
Please listen to the whole Chicken coming home… sermon. (it’s only 10 minutes long), and you will see that
He was actually quoting someone else who was quoting Malcolm X. In context, the sermon is totally different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
Reply to this | Report thisBy Miguel, March 21 at 8:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ
Watch Reverend Wright’s sermon in context. It is a sham what passes for news coverage in today’s media. No context, no depth, no intelligence. We are left with info-tainment manipulation.
Reply to this | Report thisBy JimBob, March 21 at 8:11 am #
(65 comments total)
What's so crazy about Wright?
Quoting from Wright, who by the way appears to have more white blood in him than Obama:
“We took this country by terror away from the Sioux, the Apache, Arikara, the Comanche, the Arapaho, the Navajo. Terrorism.
“We took Africans away from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.
“We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.
“We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.
“We bombed Qaddafi’s home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against the rock.
“We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they’d never get back home.
“We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.
“Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.
“Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y’all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don’t have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.”
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy Aegrus, March 21 at 9:57 am #
(686 comments total)
Re: What's so crazy about Wright?
Seriously, thank you.
This idea Wright is somehow a hate monger and anti-American is complete bullshit and manufactured controversy. He has legitimate criticisms of the US government not the PEOPLE OF AMERICA! Instead of listening to sound bytes and watching YouTube clips alone, perhaps people should look at all sides of the issues before spouting their ignorance and prejudice.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy Shenonymous, March 21 at 10:29 am #
(868 comments total)
Wright is mild compared to rightwing hate mongers
The only ones I’ve heard spouting ignorance and prejudice are the media mouths. If you have heard others, please give me their names. I’ll send them a good what for.
Compare Wright to John Laws, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, the media bogeymen. Wright speaks truths that many don’t want to hear.
Report thisBy cyrena, March 21 at 9:38 am #
(4023 comments total)
Re: What's so crazy about Wright?
Thanks JimBob
Reply to this | Report thisBy carl baydala, March 21 at 7:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
If America is going to keep on having its wars then it will continue to have its critics as well. Some of these critics are black men. And, some of these black men are Christians. Black Christians have a right to express themselves just as a white man does.
If you deny war and racism and the things that it produces then you would most likely be upset with the remarks of men like Jeremiah Wright, Martin Luther King Jr. and others like them. These men are speaking the truth from the perspective of black men. America should be proud of men like this for telling it like it is.
Critics of these purveyors of truth only have themselves to account to. And, if they are Christians then they must answer to their God as well. The Christian God is not the property of the white man, but clearly, is the property of all who believe in Him. I am far from being religious or anything close to believing in the Christian God. But, when I see men like Jeremiah Wright speaking for his fellow black man I see hope for America.
A black Chistian religious figure tells the truth and some do not believe it. They criticize it and condemn the messenger. E.J. Dionne says: “I’m a liberal and I loathe the anti-American things Wright said precisely because I believe that the genius of our country is its capacity for self-correction.” I would have to say that Mr. Wright and others like him would have to respectively disagree with this comment. You have had untold years to correct the atrocities of war and its related effects, but these wars continue on, unabated and with continued encouragement by their sponsors.
Americans remain ignorant and hostage to these wars as a consequence of their obedience to their political and religious leadership. Perhaps if a few more white men stood up in their pulpits and spewed out the truth America might begin to rediscover itself. Only then would I begin to believe that America has the capacity to renew itself as the author suggests.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Shenonymous, March 21 at 6:02 am #
(868 comments total)
Learn to stop listening to babble.
Or maybe the pundits have the classic Napoleon penis envy and love the sound of their own voices, collectively or singly. Maybe it is time to tune them out. Who can think better, them or you?
Reply to this | Report thisBy Dave in Big Pine, March 21 at 5:39 am #
(45 comments total)
Can anyone point out anything that the pastor said that was untrue?
No?
Then what’s the problem?
I hear all the pundits rail about the hate speech that the pastor used, but hell, I have 2 university degrees, and for the life of me I didn’t hear anything remotely close to hate speech. It could be poor education on my part I suppose. Or maybe it’s the inability of people to accept self-introspection and analysis when it is less than complimentry.
I think I’ll go with the latter.
Go Spartans and Gators!
Reply to this | Hide 2 replies | Report thisBy Aegrus, March 21 at 5:58 am #
(686 comments total)
Re:
The problem is people are reacting to the story on the terms of Mainstream Media Spin instead of looking at the situation as a non-issue that it is. Then, of course, the Hillary-supporters don’t necessary mind fanning the flames if it can get a couple more votes on their side.
The fact is, Reverend Wright has been a pastor for over thirty years, and no one paid any notice to him before now. His statements are in no way as awful, anti-American and disparaging as the comments by the late Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Let’s not deny the double standard. This is only an issue to those who are cowed by the MSM, and think it is discussion-worthy simply because they were told it is. It’s disgusting.
Obama apologized for the distorted view of Wright (which, even close to accuracy, was exaggerated and in the heat of the moment), but people keep talking about this as if it has some validity in a political sense. It doesn’t. The Farrakhan remarks, the Rezko remarks, the Hussein remarks or these new Wright remarks have nothing to do with Barack Obama as a person, but keep popping up as a way to distort his image even though in every instance these attacks surface they are based on either invalid or flimsy material.
Facts don’t matter. It just matters what CNN, MSNBC, NBC, FOX NEWS AND ABC broadcast endlessly on the air.
I still say we should boycott, sue and bankrupt these institutions who have forsaken America in lieu of profit.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Aegrus, March 21 at 4:40 am #
(686 comments total)
I was not offended by Wright at all. E.J. is ultimately a scared white guy, I guess. I guess the article is somewhat objective after that consideration.
It’s pretty much impossible to hope Obama can be judged on his own merits, though, because everyone has been trying to throw guilt by association onto Barack since people found out his middle name was Hussein. Then came Rezko and Farrakhan now Wright. Doesn’t matter who Obama the person is, so long as righties and Clintonistas can find a way to tie him to other people.
Reply to this | Report thisBy jackpine savage, March 21 at 3:50 am #
(661 comments total)
And before we spend all our time calling the kettle black, we might want to do a little reading about “The Fellowship” (or “The Family"). A very right wing, fundamentalist organization that operates in secret to further the political power goals of the elite. An organization that Sen Clinton has been a member of since 1993...but i’m not expecting rejections, renunciations, or denunciations any time soon.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/20/7798/
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy mitt, March 21 at 8:33 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: jackpine
You really didn’t reseach this very well! I guess you don’t care about the truth as a whole lot of others on truthdig don’t. Just spew stuff and hope it sticks.
Reply to this | Report thisLike the guy who tried to claim Clinton Ex pastor was HILLARYS ex pastor sentenced to 3 years on child molestation. THE PASTOR WAS EX PASTOR FROM (GET THIS) CLINTON, N.Y.
NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CLINTONS. HE COPIED THE
WHOLE DAMN TRIAL on a post.
My point is “The Family” is a christian international group nothing at all sinister about it does very good work. LOOK IT UP YOURSELVES.
By Purple Girl, March 21 at 3:38 am #
(193 comments total)
Wright was empowering his congregation to regain our
The Rev Wright did Not offend me (White natural born 44 yr old female) To me his sermons were to fellow AmericaNs who have allowed our country to be run aground by Institutional Racism, andSexism. WE know blaming any minority for the conditions inflicted on them is counterproductive. The conditions facing minorities are deep rooted to the point of being Sanctioned. This is wrong. We need not talk about Race Or Gender- We need to start discussing th ePsychological and Sociological situtaions that creat these unnecessary divides. AmericaNs have Progressed, but many of the Insititutions have lagged far behind. Want to decrease violence in the cities- make them places of industry and NOT living.One only needs to read a study regarding th eeffects of overpopulation on any other species and you will clearly seee the correlation between limited space and anti social behavior (violence, gangs, child rearing..) WE all need some elbow room- for our mental and physical well being.
Reply to this | Report thisHowever the Sermons by a Preacher in NY named Manning is Offensive and an assault on AmericaNs and Civility. He supports Hillary. What a vile Sanke Oil Dealer this one is- spewing Hate, fear and Self Importance. this man should be On Every News Cycle- Fro he is an example of wha tis Wrong with America. had I been in that ‘church’ during th e sermoon I saw I would have had to walk up and drop him like a 100lb bag of crap!! Truth dig would benefit US all to show his Sermon REV Manning NY A Clinton Supporter who has the audacity to grant Hillary the accomplishments of her Husband ( a Racist and Sexist Hate Monger)
By bren, March 25 at 9:16 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I began this comment by wanting to respond to Marnie; then I realized that my message is for Dionne and for many other posters as well.
Not everyone has experienced America in the same way. For example, for black people, church was the one place whey could go that they weren’t under massa’s whip. So church became the center and sustainer of their community, where they could go to try to rid themselves of the demons of humiliation and injustice, always subject to the whims of the white masters. Rev. Wright has been described as one of those preachers who are “unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian”. Since the white Christian church played an important role in the history of slavery and slave-trading, based on the notion of a people they legally defined as property and subhuman, we who are outside the Black experience are not in a position to critique the Black church experience, let alone to declare it non-Christian.