Joe (in Maine) Sixpack writes:

•  “To answer your questions: Since when do the Dems need the redneck, racist and republican crossovers?”

No Joe, let ME answer this question.

The Dems do NOT want or need rednecks, racist and/or repug crossovers. HOWEVER, that is exactly what is happening in the primary elections, in order to cripple Obama.

In Ohio, they’ve called it, “The Plot” and it has apparently been a scheme devised with the hope that if enough of these repugs can ‘cross over’ in the Democratic primaries, and vote for HILLARY CLINTON, they can make HER the nominee to face off with McCain in the general election.

Needless-to-say, this cross-over crowd is primarily repuglican, because they wouldn’t be ‘cross-overs’ otherwise. (get that?) Also needless to say, they will go back to their ‘repug roots’ and vote for McCain in the general election. Does this group include racists? OF COURSE it does. But, the Dems have their own racists as well. So, they too have or will vote for Hillary (in the primaries) and some, though not all, would vote for her in the general election, if she is able to steal the nomination, by way of these various schemes and plots.

So, THAT’S why these ‘cross-overs’ have been taking place. It is not an effort on the part of the repugs to elect Senator Clinton to the presidency, but rather a deceitful and treacherous scheme to prevent Barack Obama from being the nominee to face off with Sen. McCain in the general election.

At the end of the day, that’s all that matters to the repuglicans, (because their ONLY chance at winning would be to win against Hillary). And, the worst that can happen, (in the minds of these racist repugs) is that Hillary wins. They can live with that, but they could NOT live with a black man as the president, and that’s how simple that is.

16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga Crossed Over and Voted Democratic in Primary
  By Amanda Garrett
  Cleveland Plain Dealer

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/031008J.shtml

Meantime, thanks for reminding me of the ‘terminology’… “The Politics of Personal Destruction”.

That’s exactly what you and so many others are engaged in. Some of you appear to support Hillary, and others of you are the typical Karl Rove type scum of the repug party. But it’s all the same, the politics of Personal Destruction, in this case of Barack Obama.

It’s a nonsense argument. Of course the position had to change. Barack Obama didn’t want to go into Iraq, but when we already were in the country he felt we had an obligation to the people of Iraq. Lots of progressives felt this way win 2003-2004. Hell, even I did for a short while.

It’s bullshit to sit there and cast guilt and insincerity on Barack for the evolution over a complex issue. Hillary still hasn’t apologized, and (as it turns out) her religious ties are aligned with fascism and Nazism.

Why don’t you explain that, Hillary drones.

Careful Lib. You’re treading on very dangerous grounds with your views on Obama’s evolving positions. Some will no doubt see the ‘code words’ in your post and see them for the race baiting you so cleverly intended the moment you began to type.

When you bring up the fact that Obama and Clinton’s voting record on the war is the same you get the ‘judgment’ speech. When you mention that it took no courage to oppose the war in front of an anti-war crowd, and simply ask why Obama didn’t speak out against the war when he got elected to the senate, you’re a liar and a racist. When you question the number of times Obama has been caught playing fast and loose with the truth, you’re branded a ‘believer of old ideas’ and you’re encouraged to drink more Kool-aid for the first offense and then threatened with physical harm if the Obamabots can find your personal information on line.

ask yourself very seriously. Are you sure you want to put your family at risk by writing these things in a public forum? Many Clinton supports might simply prefer to stay home on November 4, 2008 than to tolerate the politics of free speech destruction at best and violence at worst.

And here’s what we learn from this:

  It’s bad, very very bad to be a pissed-off black person in the United States of effing America. It could even be construed as being unpatriotic.

I was waiting to hear/read what Mike Mid City would have to say about the Murtha and Out of Iraq Caucus endorsements too. So far no reply.

More on what you report about Obama saying in his book he may have been wrong on Iraq.

Obama has what we could politely call an “evolving” position on Iraq. It evolves [revolves] depending upon where he is and who he is with.

For instance, from the Boston Globe, March 8, 2008 with a by line of Farah Stockman”

“In July of 2004, the day after his speech at the Democratic convention catapulted him into the national spotlight, Barack Obama told a group of reporters in Boston that the United States had an “absolute obligation” to remain in Iraq long enough to make it a success.”

The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster,” he said at a lunch sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor, according to an audiotape of the session. “It would dishonor the 900-plus men and women who have already died. . . . It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people, and it would be hugely destabilizing from a national security perspective.”

The statements are consistent with others Obama made at the time, emphasizing the need to stabilize Iraq despite his opposition to the US invasion. But they also represent perhaps his most forceful language in depicting withdrawal from crisis-ridden Iraq as a betrayal of the Iraqi people and a risk to national security.”

I guess he was against the war before he was for it and before he was right from the beginning before he was right for funding the war or something like that.

Can you begin imagine what McCain will do with these constantly changing statements about Iraq?

Keep insulting us “Clinton trolls” and see what that gets you in November. I can’t get over the arrogance of the Obama supporters who seem to believe you can win in November with out us. You assume you can trash 50% of your party and still win? Oh we’ll all blindly follow Obama into the voting both because of the little (d) next to his name?

This is your first political rodeo isn’t it cowboy?

Joe in Maine, March 19 at 1:37 pm

“Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change.”

I take back what I said about you being a good writer.  LOL

For a really great parody of an Obama speech click on the link below. It is a classic. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/o bama_speaks.html

Elko John, Dennis Kuchinich is evidently not a member of the Out of Iraq caucus as the caucus voted unaimously to support Clinton. If Dennis was a member his name would be on the list.

Bert don’t forget the vilified Hillary supporter that may just decide they’re too insulted by the politics of personal destruction by the Obamabots and stay home. Part of me would love to see what happens if Hillary bows out gracefully after NC and gives Obama her delegates. She offers to do some dem fundraising but never fully supports Obama. How many pissed off Clinton supporters does it take to equal what Nader did to Gore in 2000? Five percent? Ten? Keep it up you Obamabots. Keep vilifying Hillary’s supporters here and Daily Kos and elsewhere. We won’t forget you in November.

Well then Aegrus get prepared to watch Mccain walk on water in November.

You write:    “This may come as a great shock to you but Democratic candidates don’t normally seek the REDNECK, RACIST, REPUBLICAN VOTE.  So you’re out.”

That is correct. Dems don’t seek out the types of voters you indicated. BUT THOSE VOTERS DO VOTE. And obviously in larger numbers than the Dems as the Dems have lost more Presidential elections than Repubs in the last 50 years - Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry.

And except for Bill Clinton there has not been a two term Democratic President since FDR.  (NOTE: two full terms, Truman became President after FDR died early in his 4th term, I think, if I remember my history.)

The point being here is that in the General Election the Repubs can put together a very effective and LARGE coaltion of Repubs, Independent, and yes, even some Reagan Democrats. Large enough and with more votes than the dems will be able to muster for Obama.

You also write:    “So you’re out.”

          No, you’re out!!!

Aegrus, I only have two things to say.  First, this election has never been about race.  Obama made it about race.
Second, I,m looking for Mid City Mike, I just found out that in 2003 Obama said (in his book)he may have been wrong about the Iraq war and in 2004 in an interview he said he was very close to Bush on the war.  Maybe Mid City already saw it and disappeared.  If you see him let him know I’m looking for him!! Ha

Yeah. You’re right. I’m sorry. It’s my fault. I should never have dared to disagree with the Obamabots. My head hurts so much. I think I’ll just lay down now and watch another Obama rally on DVD. I usually feel so much better when I think about hope and change. It’ll all be better soon. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Hope and Change. Ahhhh sweet nothing!

The fact that Obama used those symbols of Independence Hall and “A More Perfect Union” reminded me of the improvisational aspect to Obama’s candidacy.

I can’t prove it, but I’d bet money he got the idea to stage this event this way because the new HBO series “John Adams” debuted on Sunday, and the memories of the founding fathers were a perfect way to give his words a proper historical context. (Obama’s favorite show “the Wire” which ended the week before was in that same time slot. He teaches Constitutional law. His kids were probably watching it… I’m being silly, I know.)

Using these symbols was like a jazz soloist “quoting” a song within a song. It connected this moment to the beginning of birth of the problem of race in our history: the selling out on the abolition of slavery to get southern colonies to agree to a declaration of independency.

He reminds me of another African-American first, Buddy Collette who was the first African American musician to perform on television. (on Groucho Marx’s program, You Bet Your Life.) Besides being an instrumental part of the early west-coast Jazz scene, Buddy Collette went on to become a world renowned jazz educator.

Obama did turn his being backed into a media driven corner into what Jesse Jackson called “a teaching moment” and you’re right, Eugene, this is a way forward. The question is, will America be willing to move at all. (Jon Stewart had a hilarious parody of this dilemma last night on the Daily Show:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

Already, the media pundits, thrown off guard, are falling back on their old tactics: MSNBC pairs Dem. strategist Jamal Simmons with an an “uppity” house analyst, Republican Joe Watkins who suddenly can’t sit though his opponents comments without doing his imitation of a black Pat Buchanan by constantly interrupting his opponent at the moment he’s making his point.

It’s all so… predictable.

My only hope is that the internet will overtake the MSM in it’s effectiveness to drive a majority to the polls. I’m praying that most of the people who elected Bush in ‘04 have passed on. I have little faith that they might have overcome their dumbed down programming. Or, that the programming may suddenly stop.

As Jimi Hendrix said, “When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.”  My own version of this sentiment goes:

“When Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan are replaced by Rachael Maddow and Eugene Robinson, America will start thinking for itself.”

You bet!  I have to be careful not to let my emotions carry me away. 

I think we should get that image of Jack Nicholson screaming at Cruise, I think it was, “You can’t handle the truth!” and use it as our mantra.

“The only truth you can handle is your own and, sorry, it’s a lie!”

I sometimes have trouble deciding what is and isn’t the truth, but, in Wright’s sermon, HE SPOKE THE TRUTH!

All the Limbaugh Lemmings are running to the blogosphere and the liberal, progressive and leftist media outlets to fan these flames in a racist context and try to get Hillary elected. I’m not worried, though, because I know she will not be the Democratic nominee.

I know Barack Obama will be the next president of the United States of America.

Let these neo-conservative surrogates and Clintonistas throw their kitchen sink at Obama. He continually deflects with deft and precision all while opening a real debate in a positive manner.

To not see Obama as presidential is to not see Bush as a lying, incompetent fascist.

Re: Sixpack

Quote: “If you can’t see the blood-gushing gash in the gut of your candidate, if you’d rather split the party than support the only viable candidate we have left to put up against McCain, then we are doomed to lose in November. You are the problem, not the solution.”

It’s no secret I’m not a supporter of Clinton, but quite often I engage in heated debate with those that are, they are NOT anywhere near you mentality.  Frankly….I wouldn’t wish you on anyone, Clinton included.  I’m not that heartless.

The Republican party is stumbling. They don’t stand a chance and they know it all honest republicans are leaving IN DROVES.

Actually the lot (excepting old Murtha) of them cast their vote with Clinton when she was still ordained as the inevitable.

  May be a problem for them down the road.

Keep it civil because your rush to inject race is reeking of narrow-mindedness and unwillingness to have a real discussion. Is Barack Obama’s association with a church pastor an issue? NO! But you’re trying to make it the number one issue in place of the economy or Barack Obama’s ability to lead in the face of adversity.

Please, Joe, come down to Earth.

talk about power:

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20080331& s=ehrenreich

Thank you Barak Obama for making the 86th most important issue of this campaign, according to most people, the NUMBER ONE issue of the democratic campaign! Thanks! Thanks a lot! Your ill-advised association with a church well-respected in the black community but completely repugnat to the average American is just what this election cycle needed! I’m sure I speak for most democrats and all of the right wing when I say a heart-felt, “Way to go!”

There you go! You’re learning from your campaign heros. Marginalize your opponant and change the subject quickly before anyone notices. Nice try. You might have slipped in a little hint hatemongering or maybe really gone for my throat and suggested that “more accessible” is code for black-hating whiteboy! But it was a nice effort nonetheless. You’re learning quickly from Obama’s Kool-Aid drinkers that you win elections by accusing me of Politics of Personal Destruction out of one side of your mouth and go ahead and slander me out of the other side.

To answer your questions: Since when do the Dems need the redneck, racist and republican crossovers? Wait. I’m confused. Wasn’t it Obama who made the case to the Super Dels that because he and he alone attracts those lost souls that he’s a stronger candidate in the fall. Now that they are too busy ordering Rev. Wright paper targets to shoot at to give a damn about your man anymore they don’t matter? GIVE ME AN “H” (haaaach!) GIMME a “Y” (whyyyyy!) GIMME a “P” (peeeee!) GIMME an “O” (ohhhhh!) GIMME a “C” (seeee!) GIMME a break.

You really believe that Obama’s speech was even watched by a majority of swing voters much less understood? Maybe if he had demanded that the networks interrupt Real Housewives of New York City or American Idol instead of giving a speech at 10 AM when Joe Sixpack and all his buddies were WORKING!!! Maybe then. More likely the average voter would have just switched to COPS on another channel anyway so no great loss. I don’t get the elitist intellectual superiority of the Dreamcatchers and Rainbows Wing of my democratic party. Was Al Gore and John Kerry the smartest guys in the room the last couple of elections, you bet! How’d that work out for ya? Well it really SUCKED for me, thanks! I’m a democrat who wants to win. If you can’t see the blood-gushing gash in the gut of your candidate, if you’d rather split the party than support the only viable candidate we have left to put up against McCain, then we are doomed to lose in November. You are the problem, not the solution.

When fascism comes to America, it will come in the form of a crucifix wrapped in the American flag.

Well, let’s not get to insults, Outraged. Joe’s being fairly civil with his criticism, no matter how off base and unrealistic it is.

Part of Barack Obama’s platform is reaching out to Republicans and even those racist rednecks, so as to open a dialog where progress can be made. Yeah, it sounds idealistic and Utopian at times, but we really need to discuss things out of the context of “us and them” mentality.

That said, we don’t have to worry about the redneck racists because Democrats have this election locked up once we get a grounded nominee.

So, it is a crime to say “God Damn America” or is any expression of outrage improper? Is the Right-wing “too angry” meme floated by the NeoCon Right targeting anyone who would protest against, expose, demonstrate against, speak out against American misdeeds—because it is the right thing, because there are lives in the balance, because it is unjust, because it is a lie-part of your incessant singular note blindly pounded over and over and over again…like: “Mommy, he said a bad word!”
  Can’t have them darkies biting the hand of the master, after all. Is that what you are saying? How dare a black man say god damn America in reference to the things we should be ashamed of and our shameful racist past—is that what you are saying?  But it is okay—I ain’t hearing any outrage over McCain’s pastor that the Catholics took offense at for calling the Catholic church, “the great whore” No sir, I do see endless loops of Religious Right loons blaming God’s wrath on 911 for homosexuality or loose morals or welfare mothers, or AIDS as sent by god to punish homosexuals or Katrina because of some other sick hateful cause—but should the US carpet bomb milions of innocents they are collateral damage, but the holy event of 911—it is precious American lives that matter—and we will bomb and blow up—with no accountability—no shame, anyone and everyone and use 911 as our justification.

    You and your petty little ignorant 2 bit soundbite rant make me sick and give truth to the belief that Americans are dangerously ignorant.

This may come as a great shock to you but Democratic candidates don’t normally seek the REDNECK, RACIST, REPUBLICAN VOTE.  So you’re out.

Your quote: “He needed to make the speech more accessible for Joe Sixpack, in my mind.”

We can agree here Sixpack, I’m certain that in YOUR MIND it would be difficult to comprehend, however I’m confident that for the rest of America it was “accessible”.

Those polls don’t mean a damn thing until November. The campaign at hand is between Hillary and Barack. The war hasn’t even begun against McCain yet.

How about the polls taken from every state showing Democratic turnout trumping Republican turnout in numbers twice to three times as many voters?

Listen here, Jacob. You have no idea what Barack did or did not say to Wright regarding his speech. This ploy to try and say Barack hasn’t done enough to curb the messages of Wright is pure spin.

What have you done to curb Pat Robertson? What have you done to change the way anyone thinks for that matter?

Please stop this silly moral high ground re-positioning argument because it really isn’t going to go anywhere and has no legitimacy. Especially since you don’t even know if Barack said anything at all to Jeremiah Wright about the content of his sermons.

All of this is, of course, neglecting the fact Reverend Wright has been preaching for over thirty years, and most of his sermons have nothing to do with the 10-30 second sound bytes you’ve seen on TV. Please, get a grip on reality.

Nah Nah Nah!!! I believe you overestimate the power of the post game apology for a flagrant foul.

May I ask please what “Supernatural act of miraculous nature” (nice, btw!) put John McCain in the lead of these polls?

General Election: McCain vs. Obama Reuters/Zogby Obama 40, McCain 46 McCain +6
General Election: McCain vs. Clinton Reuters/Zogby Clinton 40, McCain 48 McCain +8

What? Did you think Obama was still leading in the national polls?

Such an uproar
let’s face it
only the most well-informed
open-minded citizens
will evaluate objectively
the criticisms of our empire

the rest
just cannot tolerate
anything other than
“my country right or WRONG”
———and————
“agree with those who rule this empire
,or LEAVE this country, you TRAITOR”

that’s why we will forever have to fight
for our Bill of Rights. . .
to protect ourselves from the majority
keep up the good fight

but not Dennis Kucinich

^ you?  Me too!

I’m pretty sure it wasn’t, Joe. I may have said everyone should just pack up and let Barack take his rightful place, but I’m not saying the campaigns are over.

I think you underestimate the political climate of this campaign. Republicans aren’t winning this election. None of the numbers indicate a Republican victory. Honestly, Joe Sixpack has dealt with Republican economy and foreign policy for over seven years now, and he don’t like it one bit.

For John McCain to win the election against either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton would take a supernatural act of miraculous nature. In other words, it’s just not going to happen.

Wait. I’m confused Aegrus. didn’t you just lecture me on the fact that the race was over? I’m sure I read that somewhere. Wasn’t that you?

Outraged, that is exactly the fact the Berts, Libs and Joe’s of this country want to ignore. They have allowed themselves to be duped by these 10-30 second video bytes of a pastor saying things which (even if they have some validity) are scathing to the senses. I’ve heard many people who attend the church say these aren’t of the normal sermon, but these narrow-minded people (destroyed by mainstream media) want to believe everything Wright stands for is hate for America and whites. Well, it’s wrong.

These people were nowhere to be seen when Falwell and Robertson went on their rampages saying gays and secular Ameriicans caused 9/11 or when they said the people in New Orleans deserved death and destruction from Katrina. At least Wrights comments are somewhere near the truth even if they are, AS BARACK SAID, ultimately distorted views of America.

The good thing about all this is, though, we have re-opened the wounds of racism in America. Whether anyone likes it or not, we’re discussing it again. Thank you, Barack Obama, for setting the tone of the discussion. Now we have some real leverage over these narrow-minded people who have allowed Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh (amongst others) to scare them into believing things against their interests and the interests of America!

Long live America! Long live Truth! Open the discussions! Barack Obama for President!

Oh please don’t trouble yourself by feeling sorry for me. Save your sorry for November because you’ll need all the sorry you can muster and then some. Better save all your sorry for election night, buddy. When the red states you felt sure were going to break Obama’s way suddenly appear red on the big maps on TV. Save it all for when you feel totally screwed by an electorate that couldn’t quite see the ‘valid points Obama made’, or get past the idea that Obama the ‘Blank Slate’ reflected Black Separatist to millions of Reagan Democrats and Independents. That speech may have saved the Obama Faithful voter but destroyed any chance he had for a broader coalition. Hold on tight to those absolute truths in your mind you’re going to need a heapin’ helpin’ of sorry. Sorry will make you feel better while you lay in the fetal position sobbing, “Why? Why? Why have you forsaken us Florida and Michigan?” When Chris Mathiews calls Virgina, then Wisconsin then South Carolina for McCain and you come to realize the rout is on, don’t you want to have some sorry left for yourself?

Please don’t try to think for me, Aegrus. You don’t know Jack, or in this case Joe. I happen to support much of what Obama was trying to say yesterday. Clearly you missed the distinction I tried to make between what I believe in personally and the electorate as a whole. I don’t agree with Joe Sixpack, but to deny he’s going to play a huge role in the November election is a mental health issue for your campaign.

Most people are going to fail to understand the precision or historic nature of Obama’s speech yesterday. He needed to make the speech more accessible for Joe Sixpack, in my mind. Most of the redneck vote is going to wonder what the difference is between a guy paying $20,000+ a year to sit and listen to hate in church and a guy who pays $20,000 a year to belong to an all-white country club. If Hillary belonged to that country club, no matter how hard she tried to explain her love of golf, would be forced out of the race by Big Thinkers like you faster than you can yell, Nah Nah Nah, not God Bless America, God Damn America!

Thanks to the right Reverend Wright’s diatribe-like sermons and the spin on BHO’s follow-up speech all those folks with latent anti-Black feeling can now vote for McCain with a clear conscience——thank you Reverend Wright!!!

“Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It’s a racial stalemate we’ve been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy”......B. Obama

The man has a WHITE mother and a BLACK father. It is likely growing up he’d have experienced many “seemingly” opposing perspectives, only to eventually conclude that what EVERYONE had in COMMON was a desire for fairness, justice, and to be heard.

Really, unless everyone voting in the upcoming primaries decides flag lapel pins and nonsensical guilt-by-association claims are more important than economy, ending the war, post-partisan America, progressive tax laws, re-negotiating NAFTA and having a real pragmatic foreign policy… there is little doubt in my mind who will be ahead in both popular vote and delegates.

Not that it would be the first time the DNC has chosen someone over another person with more votes/delegates if it went down that way, I just don’t think it is logical for that to happen this year.

Aegrus:

You are, of course, correct.  However, consider that Murtha is a senator from Pennsylvania, and is extremely respected, not least because he was among the first senators who supported the war to admit his error and become rabidly anti-war.  This will defnitely boost Hillary’s lead there, which is still in the double digits.  So unless Obama’s speech has an effect there, there is the possibility (note that I said “possibility”) that, assuming things remain fairly status quo (i.e., no big revelations or gaffes by either candidate), Hillary will have a serious romp in Pennsylvania.

But, again, even such a romp would certainly not be the be-all and end-all given (i) other primaries to come and (ii) the convention itself.

Peace.

Big deal. Nothing is settled until the convention. Logic will prevail. We don’t have a candidate running who is better or more viable than Barack Obama.

This is some what off topic, but yesterday Rep. Jack Murtha endorsed Hillary Clinton for President, as did all of of the Out of Iraq Caucus members. Those mebers are:

Del. Donna Christian-Christensen (D-VI)
Rep. Yvette Clarke (D-NY)
Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY)
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX)
Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA)
Rep. Richard Neal (D-MA)
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-CA)
Rep. Jose Serrano (D-NY)
Rep. Hilda Solis (D-CA)
Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY)
Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH)
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA)
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA)
Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ)

There is a phrase going around now, which I think applies to all three of your characters. “Too late.” Yes, it is too late for people in this election. Too late for you to accept any of the valid points he puts forth.

It is too late for you not because these aren’t legitimate claims, but because you have already decided to vote against him for one or more reasons. It’s shameful, though, after making the decision not to vote for the winner you want to convince everyone else you are right and we are wrong.

The fact is, each of you benefits from the status quo on one level or another implicitly. There is no reason to discuss the racial divide in America because you are complicit to the racial stalemate. The speech Obama gave isn’t enough because the few sound bytes given by the MSM are enough to damn a man who has over thirty years of preaching under his belt, and you want Obama to give an apology for associating with someone you feel threatened by.

These are legitimate concerns, of course. However, this delusion that a discussion about race will exclude you (which you have expressed you feel) or do a disservice is only rooted in your fear of change. You are afraid of Barack Obama, and you are afraid of an open discussion about race. This is the only reason you are the way you are.

You’re afraid people might actually make progress. You have been cowed into the status quo, where saying Barack Obama is only where he is because he is black is not a racially loaded statement. The narrow-mindedness of your actions is clear to everyone with an ounce of logic.

I feel sorry for you.

I think you are right on, Eugene. But I worry about the attention span of the public, about the way his long address will be spun by his enemies—and the media, but most of all, about whether the American public is ready for an intelligent president.

You are a republican who is backing a black man because you believe in the race divide. Your diagnosis of Obama speech is what we would expect from you even tho you did say something a little bit different on the talk shows.
Say what you must when you must you have no credibility!!!!

“ah yes, we should listen to what the Republicans advise.

Wishful thinking.”

Not becasue they are right, but becasue we have to know what they are thinking and planning so that we can counteract it with good planning and strategy.

What is ‘wishful thinking’ is thinking it will go awat by ignoring it. The Repubs are going to use it. We must face and deal with reality, not wishful thinking.

OMG this was a political speech.  Eloquent, yes, always, thats what he did in college.  He brought up race trying to defuse the critics, I thought a lot of his speech (sermon) was disjointed, esp when he injected Ferraro,(that was weird)and throwing his Grandmother under the bus which proved nothing but he disrespected his Grandmother who sacrificed for him according to his own words, but respected Rev Wright.  Trying to play the race card was really weird when before the only race baiting was his OWN campaign!!!  “I’m black enough so vote for me.” and all you Ind and Reps change your party for a day.

ah yes, we should listen to what the Republicans advise.

Wishful thinking.

You write:    “...he all but provided an apologia for Ferraro; indeed, that might have been the “classiest” moment in the entire speech.”

Yes, but Manni that was too little too late for me.

Why didn’t he do, say, and diffuse this at the time?

If he had said something like - ‘I know Ms Ferrao had no intention to be racist.I know that as a woman she had many barriers to over come. She was the first woman on a Presidential ticket. And I honor and salute her today for her accomplishments. I ask my supporters to remember I am the candidate of unity not divisiveness.” Or something statesman like that. Something more in tune to what he did say yesterday.

Not only would that have made his campaign in sync with his rhetoric, but he would have looked and been syayesman and Presidential like. He would have walked the talk.

You write:    “The real dialog, which includes all Americans, to progress our country past partisanship.”

With all due respct, not ALL Americans feel as you do.

To wit:  Politico’s Jonathan Martin writes today that GOP strategists believe, “...the inflammatory sermons by Obama’s pastor offer the [Republican]party a pathway to victory if Obama emerges as the Democratic nominee. Not only will the video clips enable some elements of the party to define him as unpatriotic, they will also serve as a powerful motivating force for the conservative base.”

Newsday found:

“This is far and away the most damaging issue of the campaign for him, and his wonderful speech did nothing to make it go away,” said Whit Ayres, a longtime Republican pollster.

Republicans pounced on the speech, saying Obama’s measured criticism didn’t go far enough and promising to invoke Wright early and often should Obama win the nomination.

“I think it’s an obligation of any opponent to use this issue, to make Reverend Wright a centerpiece of the campaign,” said Rep. Peter King (R-Seaford).

[.....]

“His speech was disappointing and shameful,” King added. ” … This goes to the heart of who Barack Obama is. He’s trying to say he represents the 21st-century view on race and here he’s sticking up for this guy.”

Added pollster Ayres: “The problem is the contradiction between the fundamental message of the Obama campaign about bringing America together and Wright’s hate-filled, divisive message.” …

Right or wrong, the GOP will take full advantage of Barack Obama’s problem with Rev. Wright if he is the general election nominee.

Rev. Wright’s remarks will not go away no matter how much we wish it to and no matter how great Obama’s speeches on it are.

I am afraid Obama has been already been branded and that brand will not go away.

CRAIG CRAWFORD on Morning Joe (MSNBC): So Bill Clinton says that Barack’s claims about being anti-war are a fairy tale. I mean, we can debate that, but how is that interjecting race? Even when you talk about the surrogates who brought up Obama’s teen-age drug use, or alluded to it in some way, how is that talking about race? It seems to me it’s almost racist to say that’s racism to refer to drug use because white people take drugs too. I really would like to know specifically what people think Bill Clinton said to interject race in this campaign.

The MSM wanted to catch the Clintons race-baiting so badly and the Obama campaign was all to eager to help them find it.

Who’s a tool? Go drink some more Kool-Aid. Pretty soon you’ll be feeling fired up and ready to go again.

If you can’t see the political tactic of interjecting race into this campaign than you are niave sir.

You really are an excellent writer. I admire and envy your talent.

You write:    “I don’t believe that statement or any part of Obama’s speech will give license to the other candidates to speak freely about race in this election without incurring the immediate wrath and tactical distortion of implied racism that Obama’s campaign has used so effectively in this campaign.”

and you alsoo write:    “There is only one candidate allowed to mention race in this election. Clinton and McCain cannot expect to stroll through the political minefield that Obama’s campaign has laid at the feet of the other candidates and their surrogates and survive.”

You are so correct. And you said it much nicer than I would have or even could have.

Damn (oh I am so sorry), I posted this in the wrong place.

Spining, huh? Like replaying in an endless loop a cherry-picked passages from YEARS AGO (when anyone who challenged Bush’s “either you are with us or you against us” as un-patriotic or un-American—including Clinton up there pumped up with hot air about the evil Saddams WMD) from a progressive African-American who perhaps in a manner that makes inhibited WASP America uncomfortable, brought up the “blowback” coined by chalmers Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson
that rattled America’s Jingoism but for which African Americans suffer no illusions.
That is the hard truth and since I am not a politician I do not have to sugarcoat it for the clueless. 
And for the record, I am not an Obama supporter in the sense that you accuse. I do think he increasingly represents the better angels of our nature—while the Clintons represent…what we could be so much better than.

For once, Maani? We agree lots of times. };>

And, yes, I thought it was really big of Obama to try and mitigate people’s aggression towards Ferraro for her ignorant statements. The issue isn’t Ferraro, it is about America’s divisions on party, racial and religious lines. Obama may not bring everyone together, but I think he is doing the right thing by opening the dialog.

This idea isn’t going to work, Joe. Whether or not someone believes the US government created anything to hurt anyone is irrelevant. The whole argument you’re making boils down to Obama being anti-American because his pastor preached things about the US government (WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN AND WILL NEVER BE AMERICA)doing shady things to people around the world. The message is true to begin with. Our government does do things which do not benefit AMERICANS, and which do hurt people around the world.

If any criticism about our government is anti-Americanism… well, you’re just a royalist spewing hate and conformity through a fascist spin machine.

“Accept personal responsibility” IMO is problematic.
I believe it’s human nature to accept personal responsibility, and most kids grow up having been taught by their parents to accept personal responsibility. 

Trouble is, the policies of our government make the job of accepting personal responsibility just about impossible.  When DC is owned by corporations and mostly every discussion and legislation there centers around, and favors, corps. and the wealthy, leaving the middle (and lower) classes out in the cold, the job everyone would really rather be able to do—accept personal responsibility—is rendered virtually impossible.

Many of us, accepting personal responsibility, went out in 2006 to vote the repubs out of office and the dems in and we all know where that act of “personal responsibility” got us.  This is an obvious example. 

Our government thwarts the genuine efforts of people to better themselves and their condition on a regular basis.  How about no energy policy?  If I take on extra work, stay longer away from my family every day, just to offset the huge increase in energy costs, or otherwise sacrifice, i.e., take personal responsibility, while my government is conducting an illegal war that will take generations to pay for as even yet more and more government created debt is piled on top, how can my little act of taking personal responsibility be little more than a personal satisfaction that contributes nothing to my or my society’s progress?

If your ancestors were enslaved by whites and you’ve been subject to a century or more of bigotry and your government gives little more than token recognition of your plight, you’re a spiritual, psychological and emotional giant if you can put all that aside to take personal responsibility and not feel the victim.

I have unending admiration and respect for any person who can rise above these government sponsored perversions of equality and justice.

Obama opened up the opportunity for dialogue, honest, constructive, sometimes extremely uncomfortable, possibly incriminating, dialogue, and, if we don’t take the ball and run with it til we drop, we get nowhere.

(I’m sorry for ranting)

Wright was right.  We just don’t want to hear the truth. If he were still preaching, I think I’d move to Chicago and join his church, and I’m an atheist.

Aegrus:

For once (LOL), I totally agree with you.  Indeed, not only did he NOT accuse the Clintons of racism (though he obliquely accused some of their supporters), he all but provided an apologia for Ferraro; indeed, that might have been the “classiest” moment in the entire speech.

Peace.

No, you are a spin-tool trying to pull insinuations out of thin air and applying them to speeches and campaigns which are completely separate from the implications of your claims. We call that spin where I come from, and its all you have left. Keep spinning, and you’ll get sick.

This guy is head and shoulders above anything I’ve seen in a long time. He demonstrates more understanding and insight than any politician we’ve heard from in many cycles.  We should thank out lucky stars that there is someone who can comprehend and appreciate the powerful forces arrayed on opposing sides of an emotional, societal issue such as race and who is still willing to get into the often slimy world of politics and confront it.

If we, as a democracy with the enviable power and ability to choose our own leader, don’t take advantage of the breath of fresh air that Obama is offering, a chance at a ladder that just may lead us up to a better place, then we will deserve what we get in his stead: run-of-the-mill, same ol’- same ol’.

Here is a man who has awareness and intelligence, possesses a vision for a better, fairer future for all along with the ability to inspire those around him to see that ideal and join in the work of achieving it.  Discernment, judgment, vision and the oratorical skill to make the rest of us want to listen to what he has to say and perhaps follow.  How do YOU define ‘leader’?

Well, sarcasm aside, it is very important and unique for a politician to say the things Barack Obama said. It was a sign of courage and realism, which no other candidate has been able to show.

Hillary did not need to deflect idiots like Marcia Pappas, who work for her campaign. You know, the ones who want someone who will put Women’s interests FIRST every morning when she wakes up. It’s nonsense. This whole stupidity regarding Obama’s pastor is completely irrelevant when you realize Hillary has similar people involved with her and McCain has Hagee the gay, jew and Catholic hating preacher who McCain has not denounced anything from.