Amy Goodman’s article is trying to get to the matter, but does this do any good at all? The people who think, the people who try to think, the people who live by rage alone… it all becomes one weird commentary on the human condition, does it not? People who claim to know the invisible by worshiping the avatar of their choice but still rest ultimate trust in weapons, including cluster bombs, those inhuman devices that General Wesley Clark told Amy Goodman were humanitarian weapons.
I hear the depressed comments of those who realize the big fix is in and thus have given up all hope. What good is that? Doubt by its very nature does not want to be convinced. But what about being human? If that does not count, then perhaps you should embrace the lizard king, who, it has been said, can do anything. Was not this war suppose to be a “cakewalk” ? War, as Robert Fisk said, is a total failure of the human spirit. Militarism, as Arnold Toynbee pointed out, is always the greatest threat to civilization.
It is also a misconception to think that a president alone could stop the military-industrial machine. In fact, ever since Harry Truman locked this country down into a National Security State, the weapons welfare recipients have continued unabated ever since, despite any misgivings by Ike, right before leaving office. Do you really think LBJ could have really stopped the war in southeast Asia? Or Nixon?
    It is also good to remember that all presidents since World War II have embraced the sham notion that the United States government knows what is best for the rest of the world. Thus, you really should not be surprised that all the candidates embrace the hideous as a prerequisite of patriotism. Supposedly to show that they are “strong on defense” which in fact means offensive violence.

Not voting in this election will NEVER change anything - it may be the LAST CHANCE Americans ever have…..

Don’t vote and you can be sure of a Republican president! How utterly irresponsible you really are, George…..

Mike:

“And it disturbs me that no one—no one—is making a big issue of Hillary’s allowing Rupert Murdoch to host a huge fundraising party for her.  This needs to be shouted out so often that she must eventually stop her silence and make her—excuses.”

This is moot, since Murdoch switched sides and is supporting Obama, as indicated by the endorsement of Obama in all of Murdoch’s U.S. media outlets.

Peace.

I really liked your post Cyrena.  That last line says it all.  I hope that line becomes a bell weather. 

Oh, and that little thing about Hillary voting for the war, I guess we all should just over look that and not hold her accountable.  After all,  she and they(those who voted for the war)were all caught up in the moment, exploiting 9/11 to ram through congress all these new laws,ie:Military Commissions Act, and departments to keep us safe and gaurd our “crucible” of democracy.

Yes, I agree we should all cultivate some more flintyness.

MMC:

“So according to the estimable Maani, Amy Goodmen is silly for saying that the Vermont system of democracy is geared to an anti-war attitude that could be called bellwether.”

You don’t read too good, do you?

Webster: “Bellwether: one that takes the lead or initiative; an indicator of trends.”

As I said, NO state is any more a bellwether for ANY issue than any other state.  Their form of “democracy” may be purer, their people may (or may not) be more involved, etc.  But that doesn’t make them a “bellwether,” as that word is defined.

After all, as one of your Hillary-bashing comrades noted, Ohio (which went for Hillary) has never picked a presidential loser.  But neither has Missouri (which went for Obama - by a single percentage point, I might add).  So - who does one decide is the “bellwether” for picking presidents?

Peace.

Expat,

Thanks for the definition on flinty. I like that word.

Yep…based on this we should ALL be flinty. Imagine how many more of us would be alive and well and living in relative peace, if we weren’t so easily fooled.

MMC/Cyrena:

As I clearly said, “If she wants to make claims about Vermont’s system of democracy, that’s fine.”  That comment does not suggest that that system is not a good one, perhaps even the most “democratic” one.

Thus, it is amusing that despite all your blather - and continued attacks, insinuations, accusations and name-calling - neither of you disputed the actual point that I DID make: that calling ANY state a “bellwether” on ANY issue is simply silly.  Which it is.

Peace.

The nomination will not be worth anything to Clinton should she win.  She used a page from Rove’s playbook to defeat Obama in Ohio and Texas:  “The terrorists are coming to get your kids any day now and I will do a better job of protecting them than that Black guy who doesn’t want to fight the terrorists in Iraq.”  How many of Obama’s supporters will vote for her in the general election after that?
Furthermore, McCain will use the same arguement against her.  Hillary has done her part in keeping real issues out of the campaign.  From hear on it’s all about scaring hell out of people.  Who needs Bush and Rove now?
Vermonters won’t do as they are told.  Matthew Lyon, Vermont’s first congressman was arrested in Washington in 1798 for his vigorous opposition to then President John Adams “Seditions Act” and spent time in jail.  There is a longer tradition there of the anti-herd mentality than Goodman knows about.  Anyone like Clinton who wants to keep the riff-raff in line could not win there.  They will not submit to fear mongering.

RdV ...

Thanks for the info and links!

Amy: I love you but did you really have to keep repeating the footage of Clinton’s student council soundbite celebration speech last night? She is almost as painful to listen to as Bush—although with Bush there is some perverse repulsion-attraction to his freakshow idiocy, while Clinton is just common pedestrian blather. What bothers me though, Amy, is the way you have adopted the MSM’s deception of suggesting that both sides are equally participating in “scorched earth” tactics, when it is the sort of whispered truth that an increasingly desperate Clinton singularly has used gutter tactics in her kitchensink bottomfeeder approach in appealing to ignorance and fear. It is sad that you have glossed over this and is a loss to us all that you did not condemn it in a clear voice. 

When the NAFTA story first broke I distictly recall that both campaigns were implicated, but that news was quickly buried and it became Hillary’s NAFTA battering ram in Ohio (despite the trade policy was a signature of the Clinton years she boasts of as her experience). If anyone were to reveal this info on a politainment talk show, they would be shouted down, dismissed, or the quick cut to commercial would block it out:

Report: NAFTA-Gate Leaker Said Hillary’s People Were Reassuring Canada, Too By Eric Kleefeld - March 5, 2008, 11:33PM

The NAFTA-Gate controversy has taken another turn, one that could potentially boomerang back on Hillary Clinton after initially damaging Barack Obama.

The Canadian Press—Canada’s domestic equivalent of the AP—is reporting that the original source of the leak was Ian Brodie, chief of staff to Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper. And as it turns out, Brodie’s original conversation with reporters focused much more on Hillary as the candidate whose people were reassuring Canada that the anti-trade rhetoric was all just campaign talk.

“He said someone from Clinton’s campaign is telling the Embassy to take it with a grain of salt,” said one participant in the conversation. The source added, “someone called us and told us not to worry.”

Hillary’s people were able to use NAFTA-Gate very effectively in questioning Obama’s honesty in the Ohio and Texas campaigns, ultimately pulling off some decent wins. But if this thing doesn’t die down, and the focus turns from Obama over to Hillary, they could very well see the story come back to bite them.

Link: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03...

From: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2008...

In addition she now claims she brokered peace in Ireland as well—but who is calling her out on that loud and clear? Please, the media succumbed to her “poor me” whining that she wasn’t getting fair media treatment after her plans of waltzing to the throne were stalled. Media fairness in the cynical Clinton worldview is the same way they view the Democratic party as their personal vehicle, if the media isn’t engaging in character assassination of their opponents, their threats, their enemies, it isn’t doing their job.

When Amy talks about Bush and Cheney being arrested on sight in Vermont, I get visions of a very inebriated GWB behind the wheel of a secret service car with Cheney in the back strangling a goat. George is yelling, “Whoo! Where the hell are we?” as he swerves back and forth until he slams into a tree in Brattleboro. Both are simultaneously arrested, put on trial and sentenced. Ah, fantasy.

^ “determined” (Merriam-Webster).  Not likely to be fooled.

Great piece as usual Mike Mid-Cities..all of it.

I’d like to reiterate the most important part of it though, because I suspect that more than just Maani misses this…

•  “Vermont is peopled by some flinty folks.  When they get together and debate a subject, every side is viewed.”

Now I admit that I’m not all that familiar with the word ‘flinty’ but I won’t argue it, since I’m not familiar with it. BUT, what Maani and so many others JUST DON’T GET…is that this is a DEMOCRATIC PROCESS!!

Yeah…this whole thing about getting together, (Town Hall meetings) is about as close to DEMOCRACY as it gets in America. We don’t have that in the urban or the suburban areas of America anymore, and that’s really a damn shame.

This is what even 3rd world democracies, YES…DEMOCRACIES…have on us. They get together, and they talk. And when a question or a decision comes to the table, their ‘reps’ turn around to the people and ask them, “what do you say”..”what do you think?” And, if they haven’t had a chance to discuss it in detail yet, then they say, “We’ll let you know”.  And then, they DISCUSS it, among EVERYONE in the community. And they think on it, and they discuss it some more. And, they check the rules that have already been established and agreed upon, (the Constitution) and they discuss it. And then, they go back with their decision, after everyone has been heard.

Now, I don’t know if that’s flinty or just DEMOCRATIC. But, that’s the way it is. And if that’s NOT a ‘bellwether’, than it damn sure OUGHT to be…for anyplace that claims to be a democracy.

Ironically enough, Vermont is considered to be a ‘republican’ state. Then again, what USED to be Republican is now considered Democrat. (I’m not quite sure at which point in history, those terms/parties switched their names). I do know though, that the principles of democracy as claimed by the Constitution and the acceptance of the ‘rule of law’ have not changed. And, Vermont is one state that still practices those principles. So do the Indians. We didn’t need the Euros to teach us democracy.

I’m convinced that the people of Vermont are as patriotic as they come, which is why so many of Vermont’s children are coming home in boxes. They aren’t afraid to fight in legitimate wars. They also aren’t stupid, and they know that the war on Iraq and the so called ‘war on terror’ are not legitimate wars. They are wars of Empire, not wars of defense.

And let us please be clear on something else that Maani and the Hillary crowd never consider or even reference..NOT ALL of our sons and daughters come home in boxes. Many of them come home only to kill themselves here, because their minds are so destroyed by what they’ve been called upon to do.

They never make it into the consciousness of the Maani’s, and they sure never cross Hillary’s mind anymore than those unemployed workers of the manufacturing plants, or the downsized and outsourced workers of the corporate oligarchy ever cross their minds. At least not until election time.

And ya know what else? This isn’t even a ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ thing. It’s just a human thing. Maani doesn’t get that, and neither does Hillary. 

So, they crunch numbers, and put whatever spin they can on it…just to try to avoid the horror and the terror and the hubris that has been inflicted upon us, for the past 7 years. They will do their best to sweep it under the rug, but the rugs are all so bloody now, that it simply can no longer be hidden.

Too bad I can’t share a photo that says it all…a young girl sitting on Hillary’s lap, as Hillary smiles for the camera, and pretends to be a human. The young girl can’t be more than 5 or 6 years old, and yet her expression says it all. No words, but the expression says, “Woman, you are SO full of shit, and…I KNOW IT!! We ALL do!

^ still here.  Verne will post at various times.

You’re back, Verne? What happened to Expat?

That’s right, MMC, you’ll “forgive” Bush and vote for McCain instead, duh…...

Its right there in friont of you, MMC, but you can’t see it because you are still effectively mesmerised by the two Bush presidencies, uhh - and perhaps by Hillary’s ‘bush’ as well (oops!)....... ha ha!

TruthDig’s Hillary-hater, duh…...

Goodman should know better than to offer tripe like this.  Because the reality is that NO state is any more a “bellwether” for ANYTHING than any other state.  The entire claim is a red herring.

If she wants to make claims about Vermont’s system of democracy, that’s fine.  But suggesting that its conclusions should or do hold any more weight than any other state is just plain silly.

Peace.

Well, we’re working on this. At least for the International Court of Justice. Thing is, we might have to do this in the International Criminal Court, which is newer, and may be easier to deal with, since Congress has failed to perform their duties.

If we use Pinochet as an example, that took a really long time, and it was a first, even for the ICJ. And, his crimes were against his own people…at least at the beginning. Well, TREASON was the first.

So, there are more than enough grounds at this point, to try both Cheney and Bush. Rumsfeld already has an action against him, but I don’t know how far that will get, as long as these guys are still in power.

We’ve needed UN intervention for a long time, and Iraq should have been rescued (by the UN) from the US terrorists long ago.

So for now, bringing these criminals to justice in any world court seems like mostly a dream, since they’ve been allowed to get away with so much already, with not even an admonition from the World Courts or the UN.

Some other country is going to need to be brave enough to bring this criminals to justice, or at least intitiate the proceedings.

Now of course there have been many war criminals in the past century, but I’d say that these guys top them all, because of the Crimes Against Humanity and the Torture.

Louise reminds us that it really is all about the war.

•  “Still all the fear and discomfort pale into insignificance when a loved one is lost, because of the war.”

And, so does Thomas Billis:

•  “In the American tapestry those who are willing to risk their lives whether in a failed or noble adventure must be our top priority until they are home safely.”

And yet, even when our loved ones come home, it doesn’t mean that they’re home ‘safely’.

This is NOT an occasional thing. It happens right here at home, somewhere every day.

We lose them there, and we lose them here. It’s been 5 years since the beginning of what was already a failure. We’ll soon enter the 6TH year of dying and killing, dying and killing. US and THEM, HERE and THERE..

For Palisades Native, War Trauma Ends in Suicide
  By Hannan Adely
  The Journal News
  Saturday 01 March 2008

  Palisades, New York - After two tours in Iraq with the Marine Corps Reserve, Steven Vickerman tried to resume a normal life at home with his wife, but he could not shake a feeling of despair.

  His parents, Richard and Carole Vickerman of Palisades, went to visit him at a veterans hospital after he suffered a mental breakdown; they were in disbelief. The funny and adventurous baby brother had become sullen, withdrawn and full of anxiety. Vickerman, who was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, killed himself Feb. 19.

  “We’re still in shock. Our son was a proud Marine. He served his country honorably, and we don’t know what happened to him,” said Carole Vickerman, who buried her son Tuesday at Rockland Cemetery in Sparkill.

  As soldiers return from service in Iraq and Afghanistan, many are unprepared to deal with the anxiety and depression stemming from their experiences in war. Some seek help from the Veterans Health Administration, part of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, but become frustrated by paperwork and long waits for counseling and care. Others feel too proud or embarrassed to seek help at all, or believe they can tough it out with time. Despair drives many to take their own lives, according to reports and experts.

http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/030308HA.shtml

No, there’s no excuse. EVEN IF THERE WAS an excuse THEN (stupidity in buying the lies)..there hasn’t been for the past 4 1/2 years… We ALL know they were lies now.

Amy’s right of course. It really is all about the war.

The economy goes south ... because of the war.

The dollar loses value ... because of the war.

Gas costs more, food costs more, everything costs more, because of the war. Even some wealthy and privileged are feeling a pinch, because of the war.

And we have not yet realized the pain of dealing with shortages, but they will come.

Still all the fear and discomfort pale into insignificance when a loved one is lost, because of the war.

Who shall we thank for this heinous, horrible, inexcusable and immoral war? Bush? Cheney? Halliburton and all the war profiteers?

No. We need to thank a weak and shortsighted congress and all their equally weak and shortsighted excuses for having encouraged an amoral administration and a greedy corporate empire to have their war.

Had they said no, all the stuff that followed would have been clearly impeachable, even to them. And maybe someone in congress would have justifiably stepped up and demanded this administration be stopped.

Maybe not. They still don’t seem to grasp their responsibility.

Still, that’s where the blame belongs. On those who bought the lie, then sold it to their constituents. A criminal becomes ten times more dangerous when the law say’s to him, go ahead ... do whatever you want. We wont stop you.

There really is no excuse.
It really is all about the war.

^ comment and suggestion.  Verne Arnold, Banpong Thailand

If you have forgotten about the war or have placed it below anything else as a major concern shame on you.Our first priority must be to those brave honorable kids who are risking their lives in this failed war.In the American tapestry those who are willing to risk their lives whether in a failed or noble adventure must be our top priority until they are home safely.
What a nice gesture that Vermont takes the constitution seriously.Maybe that will spread to our nationally elected officials.

At least & at last the people somewhere in America are finally taking official action against the crimes of Bush/Cheney.  Our elected officials in Congress, that should be trying them both with letters of impeachment, are too ‘chicken’ to do their Constitutional duty or are in collusion with this corrupt Executive branch and any whom have not supported impeachment should be ousted from public office ASAP.

There should be city, county, & state resolutions of this ilk in every state in the union!  Also in every country of the world, for that despicable cretin from Crawford, Texas and his purely evil partner in crime deserve the world’s wrath as well.  Bush/Cheney are the worst ‘war criminals’ of this century and deserve to be tried by the International Court of Justice…and then taken away for immediate EXECUTION!  Paul Hammond - Chiang Mai, Thailand