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The War Against Tolerance

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Posted on Feb 11, 2008
basketball team
AP photo / Carlos Osorio

By Chris Hedges

Walid Shoebat, Kamal Saleem and Zachariah Anani are the three stooges of the Christian right. These self-described former Muslim terrorists are regularly trotted out at Christian colleges—a few days ago they were at the Air Force Academy—to spew racist filth about Islam on behalf of groups such as Focus on the Family. It is a clever tactic. Curly, Larry and Mo, who all say they are born-again Christians, engage in hate speech and assure us it comes from personal experience. They tell their audiences that the only way to deal with one-fifth of the world’s population is by converting or eradicating all Muslims. Their cant is broadcast regularly on Fox News, including the Bill O’Reilly and Neil Cavuto shows, as well as on numerous Christian radio and television programs. Shoebat, who has written a book called “Why We Want to Kill You,” promises in his lectures to explain the numerous similarities between radical Muslims and the Nazis, how “Muslim terrorists” invaded America 30 years ago and how “perseverance, recruitment and hate” have fueled attacks by Muslims. 

These men are frauds, but this is not the point. They are part of a dark and frightening war by the Christian right against tolerance that, in the moment of another catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil, would make it acceptable to target and persecute all Muslims, including the some 6 million Muslims who live in the United States. These men stoke these irrational fears. They defend the perpetual war unleashed by the Bush administration and championed by Sen. John McCain. McCain frequently reminds listeners that “the greatest danger facing the world is Islamic terrorism,” as does Mike Huckabee, who says that “Islamofascism” is “the greatest threat this country [has] ever faced.” George W. Bush has, in the same vein, assured Americans that terrorists hate us for our freedoms, not, of course, for anything we have done. Bush described the “war on terror” as a war against totalitarian Islamofascism while the Israeli air force was dropping tens of thousands of pounds of iron fragmentation bombs up and down Lebanon, an air campaign that killed 1,300 Lebanese civilians.

The three men tell lurid tales of being recruited as children into Palestinian terrorist organizations, murdering hundreds of civilians and blowing up a bank in Israel. Saleem says that as a child he infiltrated Israel to plant bombs via a network of tunnels underneath the Golan Heights, although no incident of this type was ever reported in Israel. He claims he is descended from the “grand wazir” of Islam, a title and a position that do not exist in the Arab world. They assure audiences that the Palestinians are interested not in a peaceful two-state solution but rather the destruction of Israel, the murder of all Jews and the death of America. Shoebat claims he first came to the United States as part of an extremist “sleeper cell.”

“These three jokers are as much former Islamic terrorists as ‘Star Trek’s’ Capt. James T. Kirk was a real Starship captain,” said Mikey Weinstein, the head of the watchdog group The Military Religious Freedom Foundation. The group has challenged Christian proselytizing in the military and denounced the visit by the men to the Air Force Academy.

The speakers include in their talks the superior virtues of Christianity. Saleem, for example, says his world “turned upside down when he was seriously injured in an automobile accident.”

“A Christian man tended to Kamal at the accident scene, making sure he got the medical treatment he needed,” his Web site says. “Kamal’s orthopedic surgeon and physical therapist were also Christian men whom over a period of several months ministered the unconditional love of Jesus Christ to him as he recovered. The love and sacrificial giving of these men caused Kamal to cry out to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob acknowledging his need for the Savior. Kamal has since become a man on a new mission, as an ambassador for the one true and living God, the great I Am, Jehovah God of the Bible.”

This creeping Christian chauvinism has infected our political and social discourse. It was behind the rumor that Barack Obama was a Muslim. Obama reassured followers that he was a Christian. It apparently did not occur to him, or his questioners, that the proper answer is that there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim, that persons of great moral probity and courage arise in all cultures and all religions, including Islam. Christians have no exclusive lock on virtue. But this kind of understanding often provokes indignant rage. 

The public denigration of Islam, and by implication all religious belief systems outside Christianity, is part of the triumphalism that has distorted the country since the 9/11 attacks. It makes dialogue with those outside our “Christian” culture impossible. It implicitly condemns all who do not think as we think and believe as we believe as, at best, inferior and usually morally depraved. It blinds us to our own failings. It makes self-reflection and self-criticism a form of treason. It reduces the world to a cartoonish vision of us and them, good and evil. It turns us into children with bombs. 

These three con artists are not the problem. There is enough scum out there to take their place. Rather, they offer a window into a worldview that is destroying the United States. It has corrupted the Republican Party. It has colored the news media. It has entered into the everyday clichés we use to explain ourselves to ourselves. It is ignorant and racist, but it is also deadly. It grossly perverts the Christian religion. It asks us to kill to purify the Earth. It leaves us threatened not only by the terrorists who may come from abroad but the ones who are rising from within our midst.

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Comment Pages: «1 2 3 4

By desertdude, February 11 at 1:36 pm #
(96 comments total)

FYI

To all the Christian bashers, I suggest you study what Islam has to say about our society and what they plan to do about it. Read some papers from the Middle East and learn what Islam plans for you and me. DEATH! They are out to kill us all. You say Christians are intolerant. You haven’t lived. See the Video of the American Imam preaching in London. He only loves and follows Allah and works for the destruction of America. Yet His religon is called a loving religon. WAKE UP AMERICA YOU ARE AIDING IN YOUR OWN DEATHS.

Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report this

By VillageElder, February 11 at 4:57 pm #
(102 comments total)

Re: FYI

Judaism, Christianity & Islam all Abramic tradition.

If you like conversion at sword point you will love Christianity and Islam.  If you like fundamentalists you will love the Abramic traditions.  If you prefer fantasy to actual history you will love the abramic traditions.

Should you like actual history you will prefer logic and reason.  Christianity and Islam have created a great deal of blood flow in the name of salvation.  No matter what the faith or reason extremists are extremists and a threat to all of us.  Christian extremists are no different from any others

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By bogi666, February 11 at 1:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges reporting on Larry, Mo and Curly

It it possible that these 3 are paid for their performances!DUH. The pretend christian churchianity-religionists and the phony preachers who are the Biblical Harlots[kjv] and their false doctrines[the rapture]which are the Fornications of the Bible,who sponsor this travesty are subsidized by the American taxpayers as they receive government services and are tax exempt. They also get captive audiences such as at the Air Force Academy.Their congregations of fools whom the preachers insult and abuse and then beg for money and the fools give them money. These donations are tax deductible. The gullibility and ignorance of American can’t be overestimated for allowing this to happen without a whimper.

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By jfior, February 11 at 12:29 pm #
(22 comments total)

fitting Hedges quote

In American Fascist, Hedges opens the first chapter with the following…

“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance.  If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”

There is line that can be crossed where such hate speech should not tolerated....We the people need to decide where that line is quickly

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By lawlessone, February 11 at 11:55 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The primary problem with most Christians is that they don’t really believe in or regularly practice the “Golden Rule” Christ advocated when he was alive. To their shame, all they adopted is his name.

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By Lefty, February 11 at 10:37 am #
(952 comments total)

As grotesquely hateful, bigoted, primitive, superstitious and tribalistic as Christians have always been, Muslims are even moreso.  GOD KNOWS, THEY DESERVE EACH OTHER!  But hey, at least Muslims aren’t pagans . . . from what I can tell anyway!

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By Tony Wicher, February 11 at 6:37 pm #
(781 comments total)

What's wrong with being a pagan?

I’m one. Pagans tend to very tolerant. The Romans had no problem with other people’s gods - they would just adopt them and add them to their pantheon. Hindus do the same thing. It’s the Abrahamic religions that are by far the most intolerant. I will grant you that of those, Judaism has historically been the most tolerant. Since the rise of Zionism, however, it has been as nasty as the rest of them.

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By Maani, February 11 at 10:47 am #
(1271 comments total)

Re:

Lefty:

Your broad-brush generalizations demand response.

The overwhelming majority of both Christians and Muslims worldwide practice their faiths quietly and privately, and do not subscribe to the fundamentalists and extremists within their faiths. To suggest that most, much less all, of the 1 billion Christians and 1 billion Muslims support the narrow, unloving, unforgiving positions of the priests, ministers, imams, mullahs and others at the extreme end of their faiths - much less the violence associated with those extreme positions - is not just wrong, but unnecessarily denigrating.

Peace.

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By P. T., February 11 at 10:41 am #
(774 comments total)

Re:

Everybody has a right to defend themselves against Zionist expansionism.

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By cyrena, February 11 at 11:25 am #
(4172 comments total)

Re: Re:

P.T.

I love this!! wink

Report this

By P. T., February 11 at 10:35 am #
(774 comments total)

The Problem Lies Deep -- Oil

The problem is Muslims happen to be sitting on top of huge amounts of oil.  And they’re not always cooperative regarding the oil.  So one needs to come up with a rationale for dropping bombs on them to get at the oil.

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By Lefty, February 11 at 10:40 am #
(952 comments total)

Re: The Problem Lies Deep -- Oil

Mmmm!  But the acrimony predates the discovery of oil by many hundreds of years.  Perhaps Exxon/Mobil is just fuling ancient fires for their benefit.  Is that what you’re getting at?

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By P. T., February 11 at 10:45 am #
(774 comments total)

Re: Re: The Problem Lies Deep -- Oil

This is beyond acrimony.

Report this

By thebeerdoctor, February 11 at 9:26 am #
(219 comments total)

Mr. Wicher, you are a cautious optimist. I do not know, or for that matter, have any idea what will be done about that fifty year plus hornet’s nest in the middle east. It is sobering to remember that Barack Obama is not only running for president, but is also attempting to overturn the sleazy, corrupt, entrenched power within the democratic party. That “new kind of democrat” nonsense perpetuated by the Clinton family that reduced national politics to a one party system with two branches: republican and republican light. That explains why there is no national health care and seemingly wars without end. My observation on the election is that if you put aside all media hype, the voters who support Sen. Obama do so not because he is a radical, but rather because he appears to be the most reasonable.

Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report this

By Lefty, February 11 at 10:44 am #
(952 comments total)

Re:

+1!  I support the most liberal candidate.  I just can’t determine who that is yet!  (I voted for Edwards, right after Kucinich dropped out, and right before Edwards dropped out, uggggh!).  Not that there’s a true liberal in the race, but, I’ll still support the most liberal, whoever he/she is.

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 10:17 am #
(704 comments total)

Re:

Excellent observation...let us hope that appearances are not deceiving.

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By Tony Wicher, February 11 at 9:39 am #
(781 comments total)

Re:

Absolutely.

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 11 at 9:16 am #
(2932 comments total)

#By Expat, February 11: “Buddhism is not really a religion; it’s a way of thinking.... I live in a Buddhist country (95%) and I assure you it’s not a religion; just a way of looking at life...”

You know that’s not really true, Expat, uhh. But do you why...??? You have the seeming luxury of coming from a country steeped in the Western concepts of religion, false or not.

These people have “the one true path...” and nothing else, even if they are unable to personally attain enlightenment in this or several lives. It is not at all the same......

#By jackpine savage, February 11: “...you don’t know much about Buddhism, do you? I suggest reading a book or two by Alan Watts. And i’m not a Buddhist...”

Alan Watts was OK for Westerners in the 1960’s or 70’s. Even the Tibetan Buddhists were around then. Its time you moved towards the source.......

Buddhism is NOT a Western religion but, then, neither is Christianity, really. Most of what make up Buddhism, the religion as opposed to Buddhism, the philosophy is very Eastern and very Tantric.

It does have its own value but can a Westerner really see this? Even many Asians struggle with Tantra. That is why there are a number of paths laid down for devotees and aspirants in Buddhism.

Theravada and Mahayana are not quite the same. There is a place for the devotion and worship of an enlightened state if not an enlightened being and appreciation of the related wisdom thus derived. There is also a stricter path for those who wish to follow the Buddha directly.

Pity that you can’t see Buddhism as you have seen Christianity - “...the church fathers have never managed to subsume the goddess, much as they would like to...” for there is also a pantheon of saints male and female - and a female Buddha!

Perhaps the Western history of Buddhism is really only self-serving propaganda for the politically correct and the guilty of conscience? There are plenty of them around California......

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By Expat, February 11 at 10:17 am #
(878 comments total)

Douglas, you once again....,

^ I swear, you are on drugs or off your meds.  I don’t much care which, but you are mistaken.  I will not debate this with you or anyone else.  Buddhism is not and never has been a religion!  You can go to Wikepedia or some other source to get your instant knowledge so you can respond with your artificial/instant superior knowledge.  Rant all you want it doesn’t change the fact!  Your pretensions are just tiresome.  Just go to sleep and enjoy your tortured dreams.

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By troublesum, February 11 at 4:39 pm #
(317 comments total)

Re: Douglas, you once again....,

Buddhism is about cultivating compassion and overcoming the afflictive emotions like anger.  You should try practicing it sometime.  Anybody can say “I am a Buddhist.”

Report this

By jackpine savage, February 11 at 10:07 am #
(704 comments total)

Re:

I recommended Alan Watts to a person with no previous exposure.  I can read sanskrit (though not so well anymore), and i’ve written rather lengthy papers on Mahayana doctrine.  So save your lectures, oh wiser than thou one.

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By Tony Wicher, February 11 at 9:02 am #
(781 comments total)

Obama and Israel

I believe Obama will eventually come around to a one democratic state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict, simply because no two-state solution can really work. But it will take him a while to get to that point. Meanwhile, he is tacking in the political winds, trying to get elected. I note with hope that Zbigniew Brzezinski and not Alan Dershowitz is one of Obama’s principal foreign policy advisors. Brzezinski is neutral on Israel/Palestine and his presence on Obama’s staff does indicate the possiblity of evolution in this direction. That doesn’t make Obama a “Manchurian candidate” but a problem-solver and a peacemaker. Relax, Jews. Life after Zionism is going to be much better than you think.

I note with alarm all the racist garbage that is going on about Obama. There are videos all over the place insinuating that he is a Muslim terrorist. I have no doubt that COFU and Zionist extremists, in concert with good old-fashioned anti-black racists are spreading this stuff around.

By Roger Cohen, NYT

I believe Barack Obama is a strong but not uncritical supporter of Israel. That is what the Middle East needs from an American leader: the balance implicit in a two-state solution.

Yet it’s a tough position for Obama to hold in this presidential campaign because his Jewish credentials are under scrutiny.

On January 22, with Gaza sealed and the suffering of Palestinians prompting calls for a U.N. Security Council statement deploring their plight, Obama penned a strongly-worded letter of support for Israel.

“The Security Council should clearly and unequivocally condemn the rocket attacks against Israel, and should make clear that Israel has a right to defend itself against such actions,” Obama wrote to Zalmay Khalilzad, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Otherwise, he declared, it should not speak at all.

The Security Council remained silent; Obama’s still uncertain standing with Jews in the United States and Israel was strengthened. But rumors, many scurrilous, still swirl. Most have questioned the degree of his commitment to Israel.

“The biggest problem is a lack of familiarity, an exotic name and malicious assaults,” David Axelrod, who is Obama’s chief strategist, told me. “There’s no ambiguity in his position on the Middle East.”

The attacks, mainly anonymous e-mails, have woven together various threads — his middle name “Hussein;” schooling in Muslim Indonesia; his Chicago pastor’s embrace of the anti-Semitic leader of the Nation of Islam, Louis Farrakhan; and his calls for dialogue with Iran — to portray Obama as the Muslim Manchurian candidate.

Leading American Jewish organizations have denounced these “hateful e-mails.” Obama has condemned Farrakhan’s anti-Semitism and made clear he disagrees with his pastor, the Rev. Jerermiah A. Wright Jr., whose magazine honored Farrakhan last year. But he’s not broken with Wright, the man who ushered him to his Christian faith.

Some doubts clearly persist among U.S. Jews, who account for just 2 percent of the population but a higher percentage of voters, and one with wide influence. On a recent four-day trip to Florida, David Harris, the executive director of the nonpartisan American Jewish Committee, encountered the following questions:

Did Obama really attend a madrassa? What are his relations with Wright? Why does he have former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski (viewed as cool toward Israel) on his foreign policy team?

“You could sum the concerns up as ‘does Obama feel Israel in his kishkas?’” Harris told me, using the Yiddish word for guts. “And does he have the steel and spine for the tough moments or believe diplomacy is the be-all and end-all of international relations?”

Rest of the article may be read at:

http://select.nytimes.com/mem/tnt.html?emc=tnt&tnt get=2008/02/11/opinion/l11cohen.html&tntemail0=y

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By cyrena, February 11 at 12:33 pm #
(4172 comments total)

Re: Obama and Israel

Some answers to the questions posed to David Harris..

• Did Obama really attend a madrassa?

NO! I checked this out about 18 or so months ago, when these stupid e-mails first starting floating around. (a very early ‘swift boating exercise’). Barack didn’t attend a madrassa, but his family did live in Indonesia very briefly, when he was a pre-schooler. So, he may have attended some sort of pre-school, (I’ve not attempted to find any ‘enrollment records’ for him.). Since they were back in the States by the time he was 6 or 7, I think we can rule out the madrassa school attendance. (none in
KS back then)

• What are his relations with Wright?

Wright is the Pastor at the Church that Obama attends. Barack Obama is not particularly ‘religious’. (ANOTHER reason for my own high regard) of him.)Now he may be more ‘religious’ than I (a long ago lapsed Catholic turned agnostic)So, he goes to church sometimes (I think because it was Michelle Obama’s church) and Wright happens to be the pastor there. And, he was the pastor there, before Obama became a member there. Those are his relations with Wright.

• Why does he have former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski (viewed as cool toward Israel) on his foreign policy team?

Key give-away to the swift-boating and planned ideological smear would be the words “viewed as”…blah, blah, blah..fill in the blanks.

Here is a very brief, objective, fact oriented ‘view’ of Zbig Brzezinski

From Wiki…though one could do more in-depth research if one is inclined…

“Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (Polish: Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński [’zbigɲev bʐɛ’ʑiɲski]) : is a Polish-American political scientist, geostrategist, and statesman who served as United States National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981.”

Here’s more…

He is currently a professor of American foreign policy at Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, a scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and a member of various boards and councils. He appears frequently as an expert on the PBS program The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

So, why does Obama have him as a foreign policy adviser on his CAMPAIGN team? I’d say it’s because of his background as a political scientist GEOSTRATIGIST and statesman. It’s also impressive (at least in my ‘view’ but then I’m an academic) that he is currently a prof at JHU’s School of Advanced Int’l Studies. (I’m hoping for a short internship there myself). Oh, he also helped broker the Camp David accords, which didn’t much help the Palestinians, but some in the region believed it helpful.  I’m not sure how anyone gets ‘cool toward Israel’ from that though.

NOW, that’s not to say that there are not OTHER people in the US holding similar credentials. So, I don’t know why he ‘chose’ Zbig, and to be honest, I never knew much about him. (wasn’t into politics or my studies much back then).

I know FAR more though, about Alan Dershowitz, the DEFENDER of TORTURE, and the one of the many who wrote friend of the court briefs to get Scooter Libby off, after he’d been convicted. (turns out they didn’t need them since georgie just wiped that right off the books).

And, just so we’re all on the same page here, DERSHOWITZ is the comparable position adviser to HILLARY CLINTON. So, if you’re not aware of the Dershowitz polities, maybe you should check them out, especially his call for legalizing torture. It’s the stuff of nightmares, sho’ ‘nuf…

Wish I could have found something far more exotically conspiracy oriented…like Barack’s ancestors were African cannibals or something. But, it’s just not all that exciting. In reality, he’s had a pretty standard life up to now.

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By Maani, February 11 at 6:55 pm #
(1271 comments total)

Re: Re: Obama and Israel

Cyrena:

First, Alan Dershowitz has NO position in Hillary’s advisors.  All he did was endorse her.  Unless you can provide credible support for that claim, my research tells me you are dead wrong.  It is Albright who serves in the comparable position to Brzezinski on Clinton’s team.

Second, it is interesting how you posted that wiki piece on Brzezinski, but neatly edited out any of the “bad” things he has done, or the atrocities he is associated with.  For exmaple, it was Brzezinski who pushed the CIA to arm the mahujadeen against the Russians - thus creating the Taliban, Al Qaeda and OBL.  Nice going.

He was also a strong supporter of the Vietnam War, he criticized the Nixon-Kissinger “detente” strategy (which worked in opening up both the U.S.S.R. and China), criticized McGovern as a “pacifist,” and “led the U.S. toward a ne arms buildup.” And, of course, he is a founder of the Trilateral Commission.

Ironically, he was also a nemesis of Ted Kennedy when Kennedy ran for president; Kennedy hated him.  Yet now they seem to be on the same team.  Politics makes strange bedfellows.

Peace.

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By Jim Yell, February 11 at 9:01 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

yes and no

Tolerance must be a two way street. If we have people who dislike the very idea of a Bill of Rights that protect not just themselves, but people with other and perhaps opposed value views, than we can not pretend that they are not dangerous to those who live with the values of a Bill of Rights.

I am very opposed to rigid Christian political action. We find ourselves at present with an ambitious fundamentalist preacher wanting and saying, “he would restructure the Constitution, which includes the Bill of Rights” to follow the commands of the Bible. The scary thing that even Christian’s should realize about this type of announcement is he means not just a Fundamenalist view of what the Bible says, but his own selective view of what it says. Sadly the Bible contradicts itself with in its scriptures. Anyone trying to follow it literally will soon find themselves up to their knee caps in hypocrisy, or backed into a corner.

Saying this I have yet to see in Islam any ability to deal with multiculturalism. The Multiculturalism that has existed in the political history of Islam was not Islam, but political reality. Islam is consistent, if you don’t agree with them than you should be killed. Only a fool, and many fools did read Hitler’s Mien Kampf and dismissed it as venting.

We need a clear distance between our secular government and religion and sadly that means some sects and some religions are so hostile to the idea that they should not be allowed. But I mean that for both Christians and Moslems and any others that can’t bear to live in a democracy, moderated by a Bill of Rights.

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By Douglas Chalmers, February 11 at 8:53 am #
(2932 comments total)

Quote: “These men are frauds, but this is not the point. They are part of a dark and frightening war by the Christian right against tolerance that, in the moment of another catastrophic terrorist attack on American soil..... stoke these irrational fears...”

Very neat but very regressive. The whole issue of Moslems settlers/migrants in a white “settler society” is back on the Anglo WASP agenda with the furore in Britain this past week over the statements by the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury supporting Sharia law in Moslem communities in Britain.......

UK rejects call for partial Sharia - Williams said that Sharia could be used to settle financial and marital disputes: “Britain has rejected a suggestion by the head of the Anglican Church that partial Islamic law be enforced in the country to allow Muslims to resolve marital and financial disputes, rather than through British courts....”.

But check the link for a video interview with Dr Mohammad Hashim Kamali, professor of Islamic Law, discusses the issue: “Sharia is not exclusive..... it does not have any harmful consequences if the Moslem communtiy feels that there is a sense of give and take...” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2HOA3_C1YM

Also, Dr Rowan Williams said that it “seems inevitable” that elements of the Muslim law, such as divorce proceedings, would be incorporated into British legislation.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2 008/02/08/nrowan308.xml

And, Rowan Williams, the most senior figure in the Church of England, said that giving Islamic law official status in the UK would help to achieve social cohesion because some Muslims did not relate to the British legal system... http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,2254591,0 0.html

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By Ed Amos, February 11 at 8:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges, who I admire greatly, helps us to see clearly which way “the wind is blowing”, writes an insightful article, but when he refers to the men as “scum”, he is being dramatically unhelpful.  We should always seek to humanize rather than dehumanize the other.  How does calling them “scum” help us to understand them and name what seems to be going on with them.  When we call the other person scum dialogue breaks down and wars break out.

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By thebeerdoctor, February 11 at 8:34 am #
(219 comments total)

Since this conversation has drifted into arguments about religions or the lack thereof, I offer this:
http://www.bartleby.com/196/171.html

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 8:53 am #
(704 comments total)

Re:

They’ve been doing that a lot lately, no?

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By Katinka, February 11 at 8:28 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The world would be a better place if people who pursue religion with such vigor pursued education instead. This country is led by a bunch of idiots!

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By Rodger Lemonde, February 11 at 8:11 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Religion, billions practice, dozens get it right.

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 7:49 am #
(704 comments total)

Bush didn’t make a “mistake” when he called the GWOT a crusade, maybe a Freudian slip...but he meant it.

What a horrible place we’ve come to.  But i guess i’m not surprised.  Fascism requires enemies...be they counter-revolutionaries, wreckers, Jews, Mexicans, or Muslims.

Anybody else remember Frank Zappa going on CrossFire and stating clearly that America was becoming a fascist theocracy under Reagan?  They were so shocked they asked him to repeat it, so he did...he turned to the camera that drew up close and said it again.

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By lilmamzer, February 11 at 10:58 am #
(871 comments total)

Re:

“Anybody else remember Frank Zappa going on CrossFire and stating clearly that America was becoming a fascist theocracy under Reagan?  They were so shocked they asked him to repeat it, so he did...he turned to the camera that drew up close and said it again. ”

But it’s not a “fascist theocracy”, your hysterical rhetoric notwithstanding.

Zappa was great musician, but, like so many entertainers, he should have stuck to his music and stayed away from making embarrassing statements on national television.

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 12:07 pm #
(704 comments total)

Re: Re:

Ever looked up fascism in the dictionary?

Its not a theocracy yet, but there’s a good many people who are pushing for it.

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By Carrie, February 11 at 7:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

intolerant against intolerance

This is a classic example of the conundrum in which liberals become ensnared.  In an attempt to point out the intolerance of some Christian groups toward other religions and segments of society people engage in intolerant speech.  And the snide and quite frankly ignorant comments about Christianity only further exlemplifies the shallow understanding of the Church.  While groups such as Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council currently have a public voice they do not represent the whole of Christianity.  And yes while there are historical examples of “christians” hating and even killing non-christians, it can also be argued that this is not the true history of the Church.  In fact (historically speaking) the rise and assertion of the nation state as a dominant force is far more bloody and hate filled than the Church has ever been.  Yet I do not see a discussion here about the legitimacy of the nation state.  Rather the violence of the nation state is seen as legitimate and an acceptable tool in order to achieve “peace”.  I venture to say that what scares people most about Christians,Muslims and Jews is that they might actually beleive too much in their “religion”, causing them to pledge allegience to it rather than the nation state in which they reside. This as you know would be a challenge to the nation-state and may cause instability.  What it boils down too is they are free to worship as long as they do not take who they are worshiping too seriously.  Furthermore, it is not as if liberals are atheistic and have some how risen above the ideological struggles of religion.  They have simply replaced “religious” practices with “liberal” practices.  The sacred cow is now democracy which is embodied through “human rights”, “freedom of speech”, “tolerance”, and “freedom of religion”.  And all good liberals know that these truths are to be protected at all costs and in some cases require the killing of others.  I do not say this to make fun of or to degrade the importance of things such as human rights and other freedoms.  What I do wish to convey is that it is not as if Western, liberal, democracy is simply representing the obvious truth.  The problem that Christians, Muslims, Jews and Democracy has is that all who are involved believe what they possess THE absolute truth. You cannot uphold the principles of liberal democracy while at the same time working to defang and make impotent all the worlds religions.  If one were to succeed in doing this it could not be done without breaking a democratic principle.  For these reasons there are huge problems within liberal democracies themselves.

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By LiberalDemocracy?, February 11 at 4:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: intolerant against intolerance

So, we should replace a “liberal democracy” that protects human rights and freedoms with… what exactly?

A conservative one? ... I don’t follow your argument that LIBERALS have a problem.

If you have a problem with someone, call them out. Say the name of the person who wrote this article. Don’t lump all LIBERALS into your tirade.

If you respond to this please tell us what we should have instead of a liberal democracy, which, by the way, gave everyone those rights you are expressing now. Because a conservative government surely wouldn’t have.(going back to the Revolution, our Constitution was radically liberal)

Also, it is fine to hate haters. Do you hate Nazis who killed millions? You probably do, so does that put you in a conundrum? No? Didn’t think so. It is perfectly fine to condemn those who wish death and suffering upon others.

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By KISS, February 11 at 6:49 am #
(152 comments total)

Duh! Buddhism is a religion

And like all religion it is based on superstition and ignorance, and lies. In this vain all religions are the same, there is no difference.
James Dobbs and his followers are a terrible ideal of theocracy. Just a money making scheme for Dobbs and his chosen group of liars and hate mongers.
The worst part are the many true believers that give of the money and time to propagate this filth.
In our society faith is the substitute for thinking and reading.It is so easy to be deceived and be proud of the deception, when you are so lazy.

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By Carrie, February 11 at 11:30 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Duh! Buddhism is a religion

It’s James Dobson not Dobbs. Your credibility within an argument will improve if you are able to accurately name your adversary.

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By Tony Wicher, February 11 at 7:52 am #
(781 comments total)

Re: Duh! Buddhism is a religion

So, you think your brand of narrow-minded, bigoted atheism is better?

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By Expat, February 11 at 7:45 am #
(878 comments total)

You know, on second thought.........

^ I don’t completely disagree with you.  May I suggest you calm down a bit?  Buddhism is not really a religion; it’s a way of thinking.  Faith has nothing to do with Buddhism; Buddhism totally denies the value of faith.  And so do I.  I agree with you; “In our society faith is the substitute for thinking and reading”, this is what you said and I agree.

KISS says,"James Dobbs and his followers are a terrible ideal of theocracy. Just a money making scheme for Dobbs and his chosen group of liars and hate mongers.  The worst part are the many true believers that give of the money and time to propagate this filth.”

Why would I disagree?  I don’t know why you would lump Buddhism in with religion, but I live in a Buddhist country (95%) and I assure you it’s not a religion; just a way of looking at life.
Peace.....truly

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 7:30 am #
(704 comments total)

Re: Duh! Buddhism is a religion

Respectfully, you don’t know much about Buddhism, do you?  It is a religion, but it doesn’t have a god per se.  The man who is commonly referred to as “the Buddha” is actually just the last buddha that the world has seen, but when you boil all the doctrine down, you find out that he was just a regular guy who “figured it out”.  This is somewhat more true for Mahayana Buddhism than it is for Theravada (Hinayana) Buddhism.

The Sanskrit word for Buddha is Tataghata, which translates literally as “one who is thusness”.  The underlying doctrine is called the Tataghatagharba, or buddha embryo/matrix.  Under this doctrine it is axiomatic that we all (right down to the blades of grass) have this embryo, our full and true Buddha nature.  But our participation in this world of binary opposites dirties our true nature.  The path to enlightenment is a personal quest to clean our soul.  It requires no divine intervention, only right action.  When the soul is cleaned, its true, “divine” nature becomes reality.  Or rather, the reality that always was finally shines through.

Buddhists don’t pray.  And in the few cases where there is something close to prayer, it more like a meditation shortcut.  The only real exception to this is Pure Land Buddhism, but the prayers don’t bring the person praying to enlightenment, only a comfortable place.

Be careful lumping all religions and their practitioners together, it is really no better than the superstition, ignorance, and lies that you decry. Most religions have strains wherein there is wisdom that cannot be found in books. 

I suggest reading a book or two by Alan Watts.

And i’m not a Buddhist.

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By Expat, February 11 at 7:09 am #
(878 comments total)

Oh, I'm sorry.........

^ but your ignorance is showing.  On second thought, your not worth the effort.

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By thebeerdoctor, February 11 at 6:37 am #
(219 comments total)

Mr. Hedge’s post is a thoughtful comment on the xenophobic insanity that grips sadly, a substantial segment of this country. Although I do not and will not belong to any religion, I respect someone’s belief by recognizing that this is a personal, private matter. To put it another way: there are no questions asked at the grave. I have known people of many faiths, and anyone who marginalizes another because they don’t accept their own special brand of hocus-pocus, only reveals their own lack of understanding.

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By since1492, February 11 at 6:29 am #
(9 comments total)

Media Whores

These three wannabes will be used like all the other media whores in America. Maybe even have their own show someday.
Hoa binh

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By Expat, February 11 at 6:17 am #
(878 comments total)

Sorry, my post below......

^ is at Aegrus.

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By Expat, February 11 at 6:16 am #
(878 comments total)

I need to pick a nit....

^ with you.  Very few Christians are monotheists.  In fact, Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones I know of in America who are monotheists (there may be others).  All of the others (Catholic, Protestants, Presbyters, etc.) are Trinitarians (polytheists).  Might I suggest you research comparative religions and the important differences between monotheism and polytheism?  The First Council of Nicaea (325) and the subsequent First Council of Constantinople (381) established the all important Nicene Creed.  This firmly established the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as the trinity.  You may find the Nicene Creed a rather obfuscating read.  I’m Buddhist, but, if I were a Christian I would most certainly be a monotheist (not a Jehovah’s Witness).  As it falls, I have no use for any religion.  Oh, and yes, Jews are monotheists.

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By Aegrus, February 11 at 7:04 am #
(741 comments total)

Re: I need to pick a nit....

I was under the impression most non-Catholics didn’t prescribe to the holy trinity as a serious part of their faith. I know Anglicans are pretty much in alignment with Catholic dogma, though.

Not only this, but the trinity is more aligned with a chimera being, all of which are God in different forms. I don’t think this is polytheistic. Just one supreme being existing in three different forms and existing in three different realms.

I’m no Christian scientist, but that theory seems to be the most prevalent or perhaps the most orthodox understanding.

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By jackpine savage, February 11 at 7:41 am #
(704 comments total)

Re: Re: I need to pick a nit....

Check out the entry by zeitgeist in the “common enemy” thread, he references some strains of Christianity that would probably interest you.

The “official” history of the Christian Church is mostly propaganda.  The real history of Christianity is amazingly interesting...and not what you would expect to find. 

You’re right about that theory being the most prevalent, but it is so for the sake of the Church’s temporal power.  But even the Eastern Orthodox Church has different views on the trinity.  And remember, it wasn’t all that long ago that the Saints were worshiped almost more than Christ.  And in many places, Mary is still more important than Christ...the church fathers have never managed to subsume the goddess, much as they would like to.

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By Expat, February 11 at 7:20 am #
(878 comments total)

You need to look at the context.....

^ they were trying to convert the Roman polytheists.  So a pantheon of gods would be very appealing.  Thus the trinity (polytheist-many gods).  Look into this if you are actually interested.  Saturnalia (December 25th) was made into Christmas.  If the Christ actually existed he was not born on December 25th!  It’s a very interesting world out there; escape your shackles of western propaganda (ethnocentrism).

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By Leefeller, February 11 at 6:11 am #
(1234 comments total)

born-again Christians, engage in hate speech?

Just cannot be, “born-again Christians, engage in hate speech”, must have to do with ties to the KKK and other Christian organizations of tolerance.  Hukster you dog you.

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By Aegrus, February 11 at 5:26 am #
(741 comments total)

Repackaging an Old Problem

American Protestants have been deceived, yeah. However, Christian bigotry is not new. This arrogance isn’t even a uniquely American issue. It’s been around for a really long time, but only non-Christians seem to notice.

Machiavelli spoke about this use of piety to gain support from the masses. Powerful people have used religion always to prove their worth as an individual and to condemn their own enemies. Christianity has been the prime example for us in the West for the last thousand years or so.

I consider Christianity and all monotheism as purely political religions used only in order to gain power by homogenizing peoples around the world. Proselytizing people through violence, destroying the cultures of Europe and the Americas and stifling free-thought for ages.

Do I hate Christians, Jews and Muslims? No, I do not, for I am one of those few people who actually understand the meaning and importance of forgiveness. There will be no forgetting, though, of what monotheism really stands for, and that is power, corruption and unmerited self-righteousness.

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