Paracelsus:

Thanks.  I have actually been studying the NWO for over two decades, and am hoping to write a treatise or something (no time, energy or money for a book) on it soon.  In the meantime, I am also putting together the first-ever (as far as I know) comprehensive list of the members of the NWO (to the degree that they are known; the RIIA is particularly secretive, as is the BG.  However, there are ways of getting info even on these two if you sniff around enough…LOL).

The other group I have been studying practically since their inception is The Carlyle Group, about which I consider myself something of an armchair expert.  (I even shared some of my info with Michael Moore, who is planning a documentary on TGC as either his next project or the one after.)  In some ways, TGC is as big or bigger a “player” as the “Big Five.”  And, of course, they are the group through which the Bushes and bin Ladens became friends and financial partners.  While the NWO groups get my dander up, TGC literally gives me the willies!

Peace.

Terrific, Manti.

I wished I could have boiled down in the way you have.

Marlene:

What you are calling the “shadow government” others refer to as the NWO (new world order), and is generally thought to be comprised of five groups: the Bilderberg Group (BG), the Trilateral Commission (TC), the Council on Foreign Affairs (CFR), the Royal Institute for International Affairs (RIIA) and the Council (or Club) of Rome (COR).  Note that all the candidates, and many of their advisors, have strong ties to one or another of these groups.  For example, Michelle Obama is on the board of the Chicago chapter of CFR, Hillary is a member of CFR, Zbigniew Brzezinski (Obama’s top foreign affairs advisor) is a founder of TC, and a member of both CFR and BG, Madeleine Albright (Hillary’s top foreign affairs advisor) is a member of CFR et al.

The way these groups work is actually quite simple.  They are comprised primarily of high-level people in government (both active and inactive), banking, business and media.  Most of the members are, as you suggest, wealthy, and thus represent the elite.

These groups produce what are called “white papers” which outline various socio-economic and political positions which ultimately serve the ruling classes (though they may, in some ways, benefit those of us further down the ladder as an afterthought).  Because of the access these people have, they are able to get these “white papers” into the hands of major political, economic and business advisors for the leaders of nations (and sometimes directly into the leader’s hands).  These papers are then discussed by the various administrations, and may or may not be implemented.  Many of them are implemented, either in toto or with minor modifications, after which they find their way into the public eye as the “work” of the “administration” (i.e., their origins in the NWO are hidden).  As an aside, the various think tanks (mostly conservative, though the number of centrist think tanks is growing) work in a similar way, though their position papers are geared solely to U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

That’s an admittedly quick and dirty explanation of how the “shadow government” operates.  As an aside, the total number of people involved in the five groups is approximately 3,500 or so.

Peace.

Greg:

“Republicans want to face Hillary Clinton because they think they have the best shot of winning against her.”

If this is true, then why are some of the most prominent neocons - Bill Kristol, David Frum, Norman Podhoretz, Murdoch’s NY Post et al - pulling for Obama to win the nomination?

Sorry, pal.  It seems that the GOP wants to face OBAMA, not Hillary.  And for good reason: he is a lightweight next to Hillary where dealing with the right-wing “investigate and smear” attack machine is concerned.

Peace.

I have been trying to tell people at Truthdig for a while to investigate the connections between the candidates, and elite think tanks and societies that control them.

Sir, I worked for JFK’s campaign in 1960. I lived during his all too short administration. While JFK did bring a lot of young people into his campaign that, quite frankly, is where the similarity between JFK and Obama end. JFK had 12 years of elected service to the U.S. Congress.(Obama two) JFK wrote scholarly books not pablum. (The Audacity of Hope. Gee. WOW! What arrogance of hype.) JFK was a true war hero. (What branch of the armed services did Obama serve? Also contrast that with McCain’s bona fide war hero status.) JFK did not stage rock group style campaign events. And he had a far fuller grasp of the issues of the day than Obama has, or has shown to date. Don’t stretch the JFK similarity too far. It won’t hold up, despite the Kennedy’s endorsements.

Sir, I worked for JFK’s campaign in 1960. I lived during his all too short administration. While JFK did bring a lot of young people into his campaign that, quite frankly, is where the similarity between JFK and Obama end. JFK had 12 years of elected service to the U.S. Congress.(Obama two) JFK wrote scholarly books not pablum. (The Audacity of Hope. Gee. WOW! What arrogance of hype.) JFK was a true war hero. (What branch of the armed services did Obama serve? Also contrast that with McCain’s bona fide war hero status.) JFK did not stage rock group style campaign events. And he had a far fuller grasp of the issues of the day than Obama has, or has shown to date. Don’t stretch the JFK similarity too far. It won’t hold up, despite the Kennedy’s endorsements. .

“What is amazing is that people, unfettered by any sense of reality or knowledge of history, believe in their “heart” or “mind” that either of these candidates can “change” the course to hell “we” have chosen.”

Better be careful with talk like that. Someone might acuse you of being mentally ill. I don’t think it is as simple as voting this party in or out in retaliation. If they all go to the same CFR speak-ins, and run with some of the same Trilateralists, they will give you old wine in bottles, which reminds of some of the wisdom of the New Testament:

1. Those with eyes to see will see.
2. Let the dead bury the dead.
3. Know them by their signs.

I understand that many writings have many meanings and mysteries. The most literal meaning will be grabbed by the profane.

We have had shadow government for a long time. In its own way the the real power lets itself be known if you are alert to its signs.

I don’t want to vote for toilet paper!

What I am saying is to do something different. I am not saying go the route of the Weathermen. I think one route is to go to these politicians and protest your concerns. While Hillary is shaking hands with the voters, some could ask her questions she won’t answer. People can bullhorn Bill Clinton. McCain can be confronted as well. We need to embarass and confront these criminals at every campaign stop. Let them know we aren’t fooled. Obama has to hear what people think of his crew of establishment hacks. Zbig should get an earful for his highhandedness and his scorn for the common people. You can feel his disdaind for the people in most of his academic works. Don’t support the candidates; protest them at every stop they make. You know the issues: everything from the Patriot Act, the 9-11 inside job to the damn wars. Understand that you are dealing with toilet paper. They get voted into office to do damage to the country and then they are retired by the people for another pat of toilet to carry on the nasty agenda.

Film these criminals. Throw hard questions at them that they don’t want to answer and then circulate these videos.

Just like JFK in 1960, Obama represents the new generation. Hillary and Bill are throwbacks to the 90’s and the country does not want to revisit that era. They sense that it’s time to move beyond Bush’s and Clinton’s. Right now Obama is crushing Clinton in Maryland, Virginia, and D.C. and he can now start winning the bigger states. Hillary’s team is in disarray. Obama vs. McCain would be a wipeout for Obama. I listened to them both tonight and McCain is trying to recreate the time of Ronald Reagan. It is sad to say the least, that he wants to return to the 80’s but he doesn’t have the Reagan charm to pull it off. Quite the opposite, he comes across now as just tired, using the same old cliches of the Republican Party that all of us are tired of. It’s kind of sad in a way.

Should Barack Obama go on to be the nominee he will need to blunt McCain’s attack, neutralize his remarkable military service, and deflect the Republican’s “swift boating” campaign.  To do that he will need to select the appropriate running mate and that will be Senator Jim Webb from Virginia himself a war hero of sorts!

By Paracelsus, February 12: “If the Dems do get the Whitehouse, I forsee people of your lot saying “Why is the Dem Prez punting on this?” “Why are we still in Iraq?”.... “We still have an economy damned by free trade treaties.”.... “How could this administration stab us in the back on Social Security?” “Why am I getting poorer…”

I’ve already answered all these in detail before, Paracelsus. As much as voting Democrat is supposed to help, these things are already ‘in the pipeline’ and are unavoidable. At least the Dems will try to lessen the blow but the R’pgs don’t care.

Foreign affairs and foreign policy are two different things. The former involves the input of many different nations, not simply what the USA says. Of course, AIPAC is another issue. What are you going to do about it?

Its nice to have change but it is no kind of freebee, Paracelsus. Merrily making promises and trying to appeal to as many groups as possible won’t give you a reliable administration or a reliable candidate.

You can’t pretend to be Christian and ridicule Jesus. You can’t pretend to stand for peace and yet say certain things which are pro-war. You can’t talk about reconciliation yet represent one minority group and a bunch of PC hangers-on.

As it is, the Dreamers/D’nightmares/Dems are poised to lose it if they don’t learn co-operation. A Pied Piper taking the children merrily off into some fairy wonderland instead of on to a shared ticket to practical realistic success will be the end for the Democrats.

Its not I who is ‘hitting myself in the head with a hammer’, although I am often in pain with a chronic inner ear condition. When will the USA wake up, eh?

Yes, we all need a fresh, clean pat of toilet paper.

but who is good?

Aegrus,  You proved my freaken point Hillary was not a good first lady but of course Mihcelle Obama will be the BEST EVEN THO SHE RUNS BARACH AND IS A WITCH.
YOU ALL WANT IT BOTH WAYS. Your way and everyone else is stupid. I WILL USE CAPS IF I WANT TO.

Does it matter all that much, Douglas? If the Dems do get the Whitehouse, I forsee people of your lot saying “Why is the Dem Prez punting on this?” “Why are we still in Iraq?” “We still have an economy damned by free trade treaties.” “How could this administration stab us in the back on Social Security?” “Why am I getting poorer? Voting Democrat was supposed to help me.”

And I will ask you which foundations were backing those empty suits? Or, “Did you know that so and so got this much from David Rockefeller? “Or did you know that advisor was a member of Shull and Bones, or the CFR?”

The reponses I get now are that they all have hangers on who are members of such organizatrions, so it doesn’t much matter. “I like their ideas.” “I like their proposals.”

We have 4 decades of administrations salted with these politburo types, and it hasn’t help us a bit.

I know you will ask me, “Well what are you going to do about it?”

But I do know one thing: if you are hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, and you are in pain, please stop it.

cyrena, talk IS cheap.  More than half of your post is untrue.  I am not going to go point by point, but
if you are as intelligent as you claim, just go to
factcheck.org and they tell you Obamas plan is questionable and Hillarys is workable and if you could read you would see those who can’t afford it will be helped.  Jeez just tell the truth.  Like I said the Obama cult is blind.  I wish I could be that gullible and I’d just go on down the road happy as a clam.

I swear, JS, these nutty Clintonistas have to be getting paid in order to come up with this garbage. Hillary’s brown shirts are as lacking in basic comprehension skills as the German Workers Party or the Bushies.

Because if Clinton’s name isn’t first on the ballot there is an obvious, sexist conspiracy afoot…and ageism to boot.  Remember, the never trust anyone over 30 generation (or segments thereof) have a tendency to know believe that no one under 30 is to be trusted either.  Which basically leaves us with only being aloud to trust people born between 1946 and 1964.  They’ve done such a wonderful job of running the country for the last 16 years, how can you question it?

How exactly is Clinton/Obama a win and Obama/Clinton a lose?

By Jacob Freeze, February 12: “Obama keeps saying he wants to end the era of divisiveness and promote “bipartisanship,” and somehow the kiddies at the rallies expect a beautiful revolution to emerge out of this blather…”

The Democrats’ Three Choices:-

A Clinton/Obama ticket - and most probably win.

A Clinton/??? ticket - and maybe win.

An Obama/Clinton ticket or an Obama/??? ticket - and most probably lose.

Do you really think invective against Michelle Obama helps your campaign? Face the music. Hillary is done for, and America will be better for her loss.

Paulie Abeles of Derwood, Md., held aloft a hand-printed sign that did not mince words: “Talk Is Cheap. Mistakes Are Expensive.”

How curious this is. Indeed, talk IS cheap, and mistakes ARE expensive. Right now, I can’t think of a more expensive mistake than the war on Iraq, which Hillary has vehemently supported since it’s inception, and until a few months ago, when she had to pretend to change paths, in order to be in line with her parties ideology. Are we all just supposed to sort of forget about that?

And yes, talk is also cheap when she references all of the lost jobs, but doesn’t mention how and why they’ve all been lost, which is the result of her husbands free trade policies, (NAFTA) which she continues to avoid talking about, but certainly has no intention of changing.

So I’m just not sure how Hillary intends to address all of these problems that she allegedly has so much detail for. I’ve been listening, and I haven’t heard a single suggestion on HOW she plans to ‘give help’. Yes, she DOES acknowledge the war, and she semi-acknowledges the economy, claiming that we’re headed into a possible recession, even though we’re already in a recession, and headed for a full scale depression. Since she’s such a wonk, what’s her plan?

Health care? She tried that before, and now she wants to make it available to everybody…WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY THE PREMIUMS. That would mean people with jobs.  But no, she’s gonna make it MANDATORY. So, how is that going to help people who don’t have any jobs or money?

Yes, mistakes ARE expensive!! It was a mistake to send all of our jobs overseas. It was a mistake to invade and occupy Iraq, and they continue to be horrifically expensive mistakes.

Do Clinton supporters know that?

Just tried to post something I heard about Michelle Obama and they took it down.  Why is that any different then any other post.

hvd berg,  Show me where to find this information that Hillary hired lawyers re michigan & Florida.  I haven’t seen that anywhere !

But I did hear Michelle Obama is a witch spelled with a “B” and I did see her on Larry King live where she said she changed Baracks mind at least once a day. I also heard she talked down to Barack on the campaign trail so they keep her away much as possible. I saw it on the internet and scaned over it because I wasn’t interested so I can’t tell you where it was.  I’m sure its gone now since Obamas the boy!!!

So everyone under 45 is a “naive kiddy”?

One post ago you were talking about how great the 90’s were; now you’re talking about the coming economic melt-down (i agree with this point).  Would you care to discuss how the financial/banking modernization act championed and signed by President Clinton contributed to the coming meltdown?  Or how NAFTA gutted our manufacturing base, and hence our ability to dig ourselves out of a recession?

Nobody can have it both ways…not Obama supporters and not Clinton supporters.

And FDR didn’t need to be bipartisan because A. he also swept a bunch of Democrats into office with him and B. the Depression changed every rule of the game for some time.

If Obama is nominated it won’t matter if its him or
Mccain elected the county will be in for some very bad times.

Since the Republican Party controlled both houses of Congress for 6 of the 8 years that Clinton was President, do they get credit for the “peace and prosperity” of the administration too?

Furthermore, we have to look at these things in historical context.  Yes, there was prosperity.  But did we gain short term prosperity at the expense of long-term sustainability?  What were the underlying factors of the prosperity?  Surely they cannot be explained wholly by the single reason that Bill Clinton was President.

And what is meant by “peace”?  Is it that only a handful of US servicemen died during those 8 years?  Or is peace bigger than US deaths?  Do at least 500,000 Iraqi children dying from malnutrition and no access to safe water count as “peace”.  Was the massive bombardment of Serbia and Kosovo somehow “peaceful”?

The Clinton administration deserves a great deal of credit.  But if this election is a referendum on the merits and demerits of the Clinton administration then we’ll have to examine that administration with both a hint of objectivity and through the long lens of history.

We had the option, which we gleefully took, during those years to be wholly self-absorbed.  We no longer have that option.  And we cannot go back there, just because we would like to.  We’re not going to be able to elect a Clinton and pretend like these eight years never happened.

We need a better reason to vote for Sen Clinton than “the 90’s were real swell.”

Compared to the lying bush, Billo had a sense of humor, when it came to things like “I never had sex with that women”.  The Republicans hated the fact that Bill was getting laid and not paying for it. 

What a comic, I smoked Marajuwana but never inhaled, what a riot.

One thing I respect of Billo was the fact that he was a draft dodger and he did not send everyone else to war.

We could chalk up the NAFTA bull pucky thing to lack of experience?  This is where experienced Hillary comes in, we get two for the price of one, my question is can we afford them?

i never can quite wrap my mind around stupid people holding up stupid signs thinking they are clever.

“Talk is cheap. Mistakes are expensive.” This is a pro Hillary sign? It seems to be more appropriate for any candidate opposing her. Her campaign is the one who has issued the cheapest shots in talking points, and correct me if i’m wrong, but her mistake in voting to authorize the use of military force in Iraq (it’s not technically a war, right?) is the most expensive in the history of the nation.

i can’t wait to see the last ditch effort sign:

But he’s a man! and he’s black! and isn’t he a muslim? and he’s like practically a teenager! Ooh! and he did drugs! not just pot! Cocaine. Cocaine! and he wanted to be president when he was 6! He went to a madrassa! You know what happens at madrassas! Don’t be fooled by his message of hope! I’ve got hope too, it’s in here somewhere… Jesse Jackson is black too—if you know what I mean! Oops, that wasn’t it. Ummm… Day One! Day One! Ready to lead on… oh who gives a sh!t? What do the cool kids know anyway? Why don’t they like me?! Bill you owe me this! I am Hillary God Damnit. Hillary! Rodham! Clinton! Resistance is futile… Damn you Bill! This is not what I agreed to!