“Time to replace the whole deck of worn out cards.”

Agreed! I think Alan Watt could fill out a lot of material for your research. He wrote a trilogy of sophisticated books. Fascism is a point Alan returns to often.

Perhaps Ron Paul is just another outlet to distract us. I don’t know, but I am casting about for new answers.

I’ll check out Alan Watt, since I’m generally pretty cooperative. I can’t do it immediately, since I’m working on a paper with a deadline.

It is for part of a lecture series on AUTHORITARIAN STATES. (imagine that). So, we’re doing a real up close and personal examination of Totalitarian regimes, and fascism, and all that goes with the territory.

I’m not completely lost on the point that you’re trying to make about a ‘rigged system’, so none of that is the least bit ‘new’ to me. But come on...lets face it, the ‘system’ has been ‘rigged’ since day one. And, over time, it changes.

So actually, I find you to be far more polarized that I am. I’ve long ago recognized how it works, but I also recognize how it CAN work, and how it was INTENDED to work, and how it can be made to work.

So in reality, despite the rhetoric, I am far more ‘hopeful’ than you are, if only because I can in fact see possibilities of breaking free from that ‘rigged system’ and I clearly don’t see it with Ron Paul. The fact that he pretends to have a ‘different view’ over looks what that ‘view’ actually is. On the surface, it sounds really good. A closer look shows us that his is actually a very RADICAL view, which only puts the whole thing further out of balance, and brings on the final destruction that much faster, and far more dangerously. Kind of like hitting the ground at 1000 mpr, instead of finding a way to actually land with things at least enough intact to salvage something.

In short, it’s NOT an “either/or” solution, and that mentality is what has brought us to where we are now. There is NOT a definite or one time ‘solution’ to anything. None of this, “set it” and walk away. The thing has to be constantly monitored and adjusted...to maintain the balance...WHATEVER IT IS. And, radical never works. It just doesn’t.

So, if you think the system is ‘rigged’ (and to an extent it is, because it’s a bureaucracy) then it just needs to be ‘re-rigged’ but I prefer to call it an ‘adjustment’. Maybe not as easy as re-starting the computer, but still...I won’t be forever ‘stuck’ in a system that is -rigged wrong-. So, when stuff breaks, I either fix it, or replace it.

Time to replace the whole deck of worn out cards.

So then Ron Paul is not so good for you. Fine. I doubt anyone would seriously think I am Senor Guzman. But let’s not get an idee fixe on false solutions. When do you think you will see that the system is rigged? Have you check out Alan Watt’s web site, htttp://cuttingthroughthematrix.com? 

I think it good for you not to think in polarizing terms as if “I am not with you, then I am against you.” Comparing me to the leader of Shining Path is rather farfetched. Ron Paul is the only one who speaks of ridding us of Homeland Security. Pardon me if I give in to some false hope. Back in ‘92 I voted for Ross Perot. Then in ‘96 I voted for BC. When 2000 came around I threw in the towel and voted for Nader. In 2004 I wrote in Mickey Mouse for Prez.

As to Alex Jones, at least he is more enlightening on the 9-11 issue than anyone from Democracy Now, Counterpunch, or The Nation ever will be. The truth is very sexy whether the commentator is “liberal” or “conservative” for such words are just labels for carefully built sandboxes that no ordinary abject ever had a hand in creating. Such a citizen came by this as received knowledge, and anything that is outside that paradigm will make him bolt like a frightened horse. Again, please look up Alan Watt. I will look up State of Fear as an even exchange. Is that a deal? Can we shake on it?

So paracelsus,

• I do know Cyrena and people like her are going to vote for their King Arthur as Prez, and two years hence they are going to wonder, “Why does my life still suck? Why can’t I get the job I want? Why is rent so high?”

You KNOW this, eh?

Well, maybe this actually DOES apply to some people. I wouldn’t be among them however. Ya see, in my case, the mortgage on the ‘main homestead’ was paid off long ago. So, while the younger generation is certainly facing hardships in the housing and job stuff, (and I do worry about them) there’s always room for us to squeeze together in the paid off homestead.

I’m not planning on voting for any Kings either, (named Arthur or otherwise). The birth of the US happened as a result of the REJECTION of ‘kings’. (you really should take some US history courses). And, I think I mentioned before, that I’m not looking for a job, even though they keep being ‘offered’ to me. I already did that part, (for 30 years actually), so I’m just ‘chillin’ now and doing my own preferred thing. If somebody wants to pay me for what I enjoy doing, then I’ll certainly take the money. If not, I’ll probably not starve.

And, last but maybe most incorrect about what you claim to know, my ‘individual life’ doesn’t suck at all. Nope, it’s actually quite pleasant. But, that’s very selfish, in that I’m speaking only for myself. Independence is a beauuuutiful thing indeed. But, one must develop it early on. Lucky for me, I did.

Meantime though, I am very concerned about the common good, because in the end, that’s what it all comes down to. Such as it is you know. (or I do). Yes, it’s important to contribute to the common good, because on the most fundamental of levels, we all depend on it. And, I’ve said that enough times before. It does me no good to be well fed, if all of my neighbors are starving. It does me no good to be of sound health, if all of my neighbors are ill. (including the mentally ill).

And, having read your rhetoric, and sometimes totally psychotic posts, I actually DO consider you to be ‘the enemy’ whether you realize it or not. Yours is not a helpful contribution at all. Rather, it’s intended to create chaos and division, and I don’t say that in response to your most recent round of mindless rhetoric, but rather after careful examination of most of the comments (if one can call them that) that you’ve submitted to this site over an extended period of time.

And, that’s the issue with people like you, who live so deep inside your own ego and arrogance. You ‘assume’ what others are thinking, based on your own dysfunctional mentality, and in your case, you ‘assume’ WRONG!! You also apparently forget what you’ve even said or written yourself, so you ‘assume’ that everyone else has as well. Very bad mistake. Except, people ‘like you’ always make that mistake.

So Paracelsus, I guess you don’t KNOW after all, eh?

PS...I thought I should mention that I have nothing against, “South Africans”. Nelson Mandela is one of my heroes. So, why oh why would you suggest that I would ‘call you’ a South African ‘for it’? (whatever ‘it’ is).

I only ever mentioned your being South African, because YOU said you were from South Africa, in a much earlier post. I would try to find it for you, since it’s probably somewhere here. But, it’s not important. Still, that’s the only reason I ever brought it up. You said it, and it was posted under your screen name. So, you’ve apparently just gotten tripped up in your own lies. That generally happens to liars.

Still, having visited South Africa since the fall of that horrible Apartheid system, I believe it to be a model for people everywhere, in the struggle for equality and self-determination. So, it’s odd that you would consider it to be an ‘insult’ to be ‘called’ South African, unless you were part of the system that perpetrated the atrocities of that apartheid.

Humm...you also said in another post, that you were Jewish.

Ah…a great big BINGO!! I had already suspected this from Paracelsus, (another Ron Paul/Alex Jones crazy), but the actual verification got lost in the rhetoric. (pages and pages of it) But, if we wade through the muck of all his stuff, (without benefit of the toilet paper) we finally get to it: Paracelsus writes:

• I am asking liberals to look for alternatives to voting for toilet paper. Perhaps there is a third party candidate. Maybe Ron Paul is an alernative. Unlike the current pats of toilet paper, Ron Paul wants to downsize our military. You have not heard that from TP Hillary or TP Obama.

Well NO Paracelsus,

Ron Paul is NOT an ‘alternative’ to anything other than a full fledged Authoritarian State. Because, in reality, (and under the surface of the bullshit) he is the very thing that you have been railing against, in all of your rhetoric.

It’s insane to suggest that any LIBERAL would consider a long term repuglican as an alternative. Ron Paul is a 21st Century Hitler, who advances an IDEOLOGY, and it is a dangerous one. More than anything, Ron Paul speaks with a poisoned forked tongue. Saying one thing in the rhetoric, that actually means something far different, when his rhetoric is compared to his votes. His support comes primarily from the White Supreamist groups, (including those long established branches of the John Birch Society, who’ve had that as their own fundamental ideology) and people like you totally miss that. (because you’re just not too smart).

So, let’s be real clear about some of the things that you have somehow not mentioned about Ron Paul.

He BLOCKED the Kucinich effort to begin impeaching proceedings against Dick Cheney, which we obviously needed to have accomplished long ago. The main-stream fear of impeaching GW, has always been that we would wind up with the devil himself…DC. So, it made sense (and still does) to dispatch with Cheney first. Ron Paul is against that, (and please, I don’t wanna hear again, his flimsy excuses for it) and that’s what we can expect from him.

The whole idea of your ‘secession’ movement is quite in tune with the RP ideology. In short, he wants to DISSOLVE the UNION, leaving it all as it was begun, in total chaos. In short, he means the opposite of what he actually says, and things like ‘downsizing the military’ are concepts that are put forth to distract, and nothing more.

Ron Paul is against ANY sort of regulation of ANYTHING, which is clearly in line with his long term repuglican ideology. Let the corps do what they will, at the expense of the weaker, and privatize, privatize, privatize everything. In short, let the strong destroy the weak, until eventually we all destroy each other. It’s all very Hobbsean – just like John Locke promised.

It means that the ones with the biggest guns, and the most brute strength, will survive, while the others will die off. Then, the “perfect society” will exist. Just like Hitler always wanted.

The first step is to instill the chaos, and the confusion, via the propaganda…nobody knows nothin’ and nobody is ‘visually’ or perceptible ‘in charge’. Kinda like what we have now. The stage for a Ron Paul type operation is already in the works, so it wouldn’t be hard.

Once the chaos, and the confusion, and the division and the panic has set in, and everybody is beating the other over the head in a fight for resources, then the terror can really take hold, and the next step is the complete takeover of the state.

Check out the documentary “State of Fear”. It’s really quite excellent. You’ll see yourself as the Guzman at the head of the Shining Path terror group. Peru lived through 30 years of terror…visited mostly upon the Native population, and it doesn’t take much to see this as an outcome of any Ron Paul type ideology.

It is what it is, and again, you have revealed yourself, at least to those who can see through it.

Earlier I had posted that many of these establishment politicians have personal lives involving acivities that are illegal as well as being publicly shaming. One of GW Bush’s biggest faults is his hiddened personal life involving cocaine and homosexual sex. We do not know to what extent Bush’s policy is dictated to him with the threat of exposure of his orientation and drug taking. It is indeed dangerous to have politicians in office who can be blackmailed.

Well then I know of another politician who can be blackmailed once he/she is in office.

http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Larr y_Sinclair_012308.mp3

I feel that all the front liners in both parties lack moral fiber. We do not know the full extent of the corruption. Change indeed!

How do I know what I know? Look up Alan Watt, cuttingthroughthematrix.com. I have been giving truthful knowledge. I just see that people here are hitting themselves on the head with hammers, and they are wondering why have friggin’ headaches. First recognize that you are playing a rigged game, then you can do something creative and constructive. Parhaps you can ask these cardboard cut outs embarrassing questions that can be captured on video and then submitted to the internet. At least when I mention secession, I am playing my game not theirs.

BTW, you mentioned a slew of dictators and then said nothing is predetermined. Did you know that Hitler got financial support from Wall Street? The same is true for Stalin. Also Hitler got into power by the vote. He held on with a slim plurality. There will people who said, “We can vote him out.”
Their mistake is that they were playing somebody else’s game.
Our system is much more clever than the Third Reich. We rubber stamp pre-approved dictators every four years. The two party system provides an illusion of choice, but the tyranny never gets rolled back.

Paracelsus,

You ARE overreacting on the one hand, and spinning your wheels on the other, and it amounts to what I said it was before, worthless propaganda that generally borders on slander and defamation. But more than anything, you don’t ACCOMPLISH anything.

In other words, with all of what you consistently repeat, and what you say your ‘goal’ is, my only response can be “tell us something we DON’T KNOW”. Because, the bottom line is that whatever tiny pinpoint of truth there may be to anything you say, it’s like…yeah, well we KNOW that. You claim bullshit like this….

• I am trying to convince people on this forum that their democratic republic is a sham, and that their choices are predetermined many years in advance by higher councils of power.

And ya know what? That goes in the same burn pile as all of the other stuff that I get, claiming all of God’s great works, if I only pray. Or like Oprah’s ‘secret’ that says one only has to ‘’think’ good thoughts, and that’s the way it’ll all work out.

Sorry, I don’t believe the shit. It’s the same as you trying to convince people on this forum that they’re gonna die. Well yeah, I suspect that every single person reading or posting to this forum is gonna die, including you and I. Now WHEN, and how, and all the rest of it, is only anybody’s guess, and I’m gonna believe (since I don’t do this voodoo or witch craft, or religious whacky stuff) that I have at least SOME minimal power over when that happens to me. I have at LEAST enough power/control to decide NOT to walk out into the path of a speeding train, and I’m not inclined to sit by idly while my house burns down around me either. So, you can take your ‘predetermined notions’ and shove them directly up your ass. Because, if there’s a way to SAVE my own, (and anybody else who might also like to save theirs as well) I’m gonna go out trying.

Now, that’s just the way it is. So we don’t really KNOW that I’ll be posting to TD in 2010, about ANYTHING, because we don’t know that I’ll s have access to a computer, or if any of us will have access to the Internet, or if there will even BE an Internet. I doubt I’ll be complaining about not finding a job though, since I don’t plan to be looking. I’ve already done the ‘job’ thing.

So, tell me the sky is falling too if you want Paracelsus, and tell me that it was long ago ‘determined’ to do that, and I’m still gonna tell you that you’re full of shit.

And yeah, I’m still gonna vote in elections, for as long as the process is in the works.
Dictators have come and gone. Pinochet (Chile) Fujimori (Peru) Hitler (Germany) Stalin (Russia) Mussolini (Italy) and I could go on. The Bush and Clinton Dynasties are out the door as well.

NOTHING is ‘predetermined’ Paracelsus, not by you, or god, or the tooth fairly, or any other of these “higher councils of power’ that you refer to. They have no more ‘power’ than what we give them. And we can only dispense or withhold that power, based on our OWN access to knowledge…TRUTHFUL KNOWLEDGE. We can’t do a damn thing mired in ignorance and/or hopelessness, and that’s all you have to offer.

So, don’t concern yourself with what I might be doing in 2010, since it has NOT yet been predetermined. Meantime, I honestly wouldn’t have CARED if you were from South Africa. I just want you to have your way, and you’ve admitted on numerous occasions, that you want to secede. So it really doesn’t matter WHERE you secede TO, as long as you LEAVE HERE! I mean, since you want to do that. I just don’t think you should plan to take the entire state of Georgia (or any other state) with you when you do.

Now, do you need help packing? Or, do you even have anything to pack?

How about a ticket for a slow boat to Siberia? You can pick up what you need on the way.

I am not the enemy. Believe it or not, I feel I am doing good. I am trying to convince people on this forum that their democratic republic is a sham, and that their choices are predetermined many years in advance by higher councils of power. I cannot give this candidate or that as an alternative. I do know Cyrena and people like her are going to vote for their King Arthur as Prez, and two years hence they are going to wonder, “Why does my life still suck? Why can’t I get the job I want? Why is rent so high?”

Meanwhile the machine keeps grinding on cruelly. The Patriot Act never gets repealed. Iraq War keeps grinding on. The police state keeps getting tighter. We might even be involved in more wars!

Cyrena will post to Truthdig in 2010 with the same complaints over economic deprivation and loss of liberties. “I thought things were supposed to be better because I voted for Scott’s 2 ply brand of politician,” she sighs.

Chalmers will get disgusted with the Democratic Congress punting the ball. He worries that working class white vote will get discouraged and throw their vote to the TP Republicans for Congress. “Damn Southern rednecks!”, curses he.

Meanwhile I will point out all the connections these politicians have to secret societies, and think tanks without public attribution.

Cyrene will call me a South African for it.

“All you do is blast and defame the Obamas, (only) and then suggest as an alternative, that people shouldn’t pay taxes, and that they should consider secession. FINE. YOU stop paying taxes, and YOU secede from the State of Georgia, and the US in general. Didn’t you say you were from somewhere in Africa anyway? Maybe SA? So go back there. It’s safer now, isn’t it? In other words…secede YOUR ass!!”

What I had said about Obama is true. What I have said about HRC is true. I am GA citizen, and I never said I was from South Africa. I was accused of such by another slanderer.
You are ignoring that Bryzenski is an advisor to Obama. In my zeal to reveal the overall bad character of all the candidates I may have over emphasized Obama, but only in so far as there is a determined obtuseness to ignore Obama’s connections. I never mentioned colleges as connections or education. If you will look at my posts, you will see over and over again that I object to politicians getting a seal of apporoval from the Bilderbergs, the Trilateralists, and the CFR’ers. The Republicans, too, have these same nasty connections, many of them are Boho perverts, who probably have sex with teenage children, while attending the Stone Owl party. I wish I could throw in every qualifier in that I could to show that I am equally appalled at the toilet paper wads running for office, but I have only so much time.

As to Zbig, I worry that he will engineer wars against the Russians. He is awfully meglomanaical. As to HRC she is only 80% as horrible in the quest for world domination.

Finally my plea is: QUIT VOTING FOR PATS OF TOILET PAPER!!!

More importantly people of good will keep repeating the same actions while expecting “change”. The current line consists of pats of toilet paper. The system wipes its haunches with the toilet paper, (politicians) and then puts the used handful up to the voters’ faces. The voters protest and demand clean unsoiled tolet paper. I am asking liberals to look for alternatives to voting for toilet paper. Perhaps there is a third party candidate. Maybe Ron Paul is an alernative. Unlike the current pats of toilet paper, Ron Paul wants to downsize our military. You have not heard that from TP Hillary or TP Obama. Understand that TP is supposed to get a job done and then get thrown away.

Paracelcus writes, (amongst other drivel):

• “…I do these posts without compensation. I resent your defamation….”

Well Para…

I don’t suppose anyone ever thought for a moment that you actually got paid to dispense this crap. As for resenting the ‘defamation’, I resent yours as well.

You must have more than a dozen posts scattered about here, making some super distant ‘connection’ between Michelle Obama and the CFR, which doesn’t mean shit to anybody. Besides, you’ve already been ‘bested’ on that. Lynne Cheney has long ago come up with some equally irrelevant bullshit that allegedly makes Dick and Obama 12th cousins or something. WHO CARES?

Answer: NOBODY – EXCEPT YOU!! (or anyone else looking for a pitiful anything to defame Obama).

Besides that, it doesn’t ‘prove’ any of the other shit that you’re trying to lie about, since it is your intention to make him a part of the ‘evil establishment’ when the fact of the matter is that a large percentage of Americans over the past 50 years, have been part of the ‘establishment’. According to you, anybody who’s ever attended college or worked in the government, or happens to have an income, is part of ‘the establishment’. If that’s the case, then a whole bunch of us are.

In short, what you’re trying to do, is to connect Obama, (though his wife) to the political old guard, and it’s a joke, because black people in this country have NEVER had a ‘old guard’ political connections, unless you count Clarence Thomas, and even HIS is ‘new’, and he’s the typical “Uncle Tom” and we all know it. Denzel Washington is the only other “known black’ entertainment figure with hard repug ties, and of course there’s Colin Powell. But NONE of them ‘go back’ to the old white political aristocracy that you’re trying to pin on the Obama’s, and we know it. So, these are all cheap shots on your part; another obvious attempt to throw shit out there, and hope that some of it will stick. 

It’s transparent, and shows you only for the bitter and vindictive malcontent that you are. And, you don’t even pose a viable alternative. All you do is blast and defame the Obamas, (only) and then suggest as an alternative, that people shouldn’t pay taxes, and that they should consider secession. FINE. YOU stop paying taxes, and YOU secede from the State of Georgia, and the US in general. Didn’t you say you were from somewhere in Africa anyway? Maybe SA? So go back there. It’s safer now, isn’t it? In other words…secede YOUR ass!!

This happens to me MY country, and that of 12 generations of MY ancestors, and I share it with 300 million others. So, I’m about fixing it; not giving it up, or running away. That means that we’re not going anywhere, and unless you take your own advice and remove YOURSELF, I’ll keep calling you out, every time you put lies and misleading innuendo out there.

I resent the defamation.

Hammo, it would seem, (at least from your posts) that you are bent on keeping this race issue as a major ‘challenge’ for Americans to face.

Stop with the mixed-ethnicity stuff...please. While that might be the case with Obama, ‘technically’ the fact of the matter is that he is BLACK...an African-American, because that is simply the 300 year old standing of racial identity in the US. (even before it was the US). The slightest drop of blood makes a person black.

Far more importantly than that however, at least in the case of Barack Obama, and in the year 2008, fewer and fewer Americans really give a shit about that!! OK?

So, STOP ‘creating’ a ‘challenge’ or attempting to keep it as a stumbling block to unity and any hopes that we might have, of stopping the destruction, and maybe moving toward some reconciliation. There’s no doubt in anybody’s mind, that racism will continue to exist. And, you bringing it up as a ‘challenge’ isn’t going to change the minds of anyone who is wedded to that ideology. People will continue to find every tiny bit of meaningless negative detail about Obama, to put forth as an excuse for their basic racism, and nothing you say or write is going to change that.

Meantime, the majority seems to ‘get it’ and aren’t bothered by it, and that’s the system we’re supposed to be running here. A majority system. Things have changed. Yes, we obviously have CHALLENGES. This isn’t the biggest one of them, and it will in fact self-correct, if it’s going to.

Move on to some other of our far bigger challenges. Like...stopping the destruction. IMPEACH NOW.

Write about that.

After all that you still don’t get it. More trivia!

It’s clear to many people that Obama is a better candidate for president than Hillary Clinton.

That said, whether we like it or not, one of the major challenges facing Obama is the fact that his dad was black and Obama is so-called “mixed-race.”

Dealing with this in Americans’ minds successfully will be key to making significant progress.

Food for thought in the article ...

“Mixed-ethnicity Americans face challenges”

AmericanChronicle.com
January 31, 2008

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/50835

Somebody mentioned Rupert Murdoch in reference to HRC. THe funny thing is that Murdoch is throwing a lot of support towards Clinton. It is as if the king makers have decided where the wind is blowing far in advance of the general population. I wish I could convince more Truthdiggers that they are supporting sham candidates. Chalmers is the most stubborn in not seeing the puppet show for what it is.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/mai n1600694.shtml

@ truthdweller

“If that’s the case, you’re overpaid. Your tactics are backfiring, just like theirs. That’s what ALWAYS happens when you underestimate the intelligence of others. Guess you just don’t know any better.”

The Republicans are offering dead horses. I am not hired by anybody.

You can call me names but you cannot deny that you are voting for puppets.

Michelle Obama is a member of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. This organization has members who are also members of the CFR in NYC.

http://www.ccfr.org/chicago_council_board_directors.php

So long as you vote for politicians who have ties to these elite organizations you will have out of control military spending and more unconstitutional government. I promise you I do not work for the Neocons or for the DLC. I do these posts without compensation. I resent your defamation. I urge Truthdiggers to check out onlinejournal.com. I have observed this oligarchic gov’t since Jimmy Carter. Voting one set of bums out office to replace them with another is not working. Such an action is the definition of insanity itself.

I am suggesting new alternatives such as tax protests or secession movements. This political duopoly is moving their ball forward. You are voting for bird cage liners, but the tyrannical agenda stays in place as long as each Administration, and Congressional session is heavily salted with Trilateralists, CFR’ers, and Bildebergers.

Paracelcus,

You’re like the standard propagandist, and not even a good one, because your type of propaganda assumes the ignorance of others. Like, people will just believe the shit, without checking it out for themselves.

Another tactic is to take a bottom line or fundamental truth, (like what the ‘establishment’ has long ago planned for the Middle East – though scholars call in neo-colonization) and then make incorrect connections to who the ‘establishment’ is.

For instance, in all of this crap that you’ve posted, we know that there IS NO CONNECTION between Barack Obama and this old guard establishment, and that is obvious to anyone who’s read anything at all on him, or from him. But, people as ignorant and/or malicious as you, might believe it, because they don’t know enough to pick out the obvious lies, beginning with the fact that there’s no way that Obama could be a part of this ‘always had money and power establishment’ because he’s not from that background. His is a middle class background, not unlike a large portion of Americans, and he’s not even 50 years old yet. You also keep making his wife’s connection to the CFR out to be a big deal, even though I can’t even find such a connection, and it wouldn’t be any different than connecting the Laura Bush old southern white money folks to anything, or the Bush-Walker-Prescott Dynasty to Hitler’s old regime. (and that actually IS a valid connection).

So, you put out all of this slander and innuendo, with absolutely NO BACKUP, and you put it out of context, (since a million people have worked for the CFR or the TLC) just like a million people have worked, and still do, for the US government, at ALL levels. So in short, you’re just full of shit. But then, I think I’ve mentioned that before.

And then, you NEVER ‘suggest’ any alternatives, which always amounts to a dead giveaway to your real agenda, and then you end all of this with the suggestion that everybody stop paying their income taxes, and you can’t even SPELL that correctly.

No doubt you don’t pay an income tax anyway, because it’s doubtful that you have a valid income. In that of course, you’re not alone. But, what gain is it for YOU, for the rest of us to stop paying income tax? No gain other than the fact that people like you, like to keep shit and chaos and instability going at all times. It’s the standard terror tactic of an authoritarian regime. So, maybe you DO have an income after all…working for the current terrorists in the Dick Bush regime.

If that’s the case, you’re overpaid. Your tactics are backfiring, just like theirs. That’s what ALWAYS happens when you underestimate the intelligence of others. Guess you just don’t know any better.

Tony!!! Where have you been? There not a damn thing “Closet-like” about Chalmer’s support for Clinton!!

He’s like her personal hand maiden. We’re talking she is his IDOL, his queen on the throne!!

Closet nothing!!

Tony,

Always good to come across somebody older than me.
(not by a whole lot, but enough to give you legitimacy in my book).

Anyway, after actually paying attention to most of these posts from those with the antipathy towards Obama, (and I’d go so far as to call it downright animosity and hate) I think I can say that the reason you don’t understand it, is because it is not logic based. And you are, logic based. Rational. Realistic. Pragmatic, without being negative or cynical. There’s a difference between skepticism and cynicism.

So, while I’m not claiming to play armature psychotherapist or forensic psychiatrist, I’ve experienced a 30 year career of dealing with the mass public, and literally hundreds of co-workers, from all corners of the country and all persuasions, ideologies, mentalities, etc,. Over the years, I’ve come to generally figure it out. 

And as you read, you can spot easily enough, (especially over time) the difference between objective reality, (just as you’ve noted the flaws of JFK, because he did have them) and the irrational or emotion based stuff comes out as well. It’s more obvious with some than others.

We see it far more with Obama, because of the race issue. It’s that simple. It will be consistently denied, which is why you’ll find more and more complaints claimed against him, that have absolutely NO validity, or at least are nothing that sets him apart from any of the other candidates, and yet…you’ll see this stuff, time after time. But, that’s also why you can’t understand it. It’s not logic based. It’s based on emotion, jealousy, and in some cases an irrational fear even. But, they will never SAY that. It just doesn’t happen in human nature, at least not for the most part.

I honestly wish that folks WOULD be that honest, since I know I generally am. I’ll just generally admit when I don’t like somebody, if I don’t like ‘em, just because I don’t like ‘em, but it’s never race based for me, and that’s the difference. Like, I don’t hate Dick Bush because they’re white or rich, I hate ‘em because they’re evil and criminal, and have brought such destruction upon the world. I severally dislike Clarence Thomas, and he’s certainly black enough, (and really ugly) and Thurgood Marshall was my hero.

So, for as long as Barack Obama runs or is in politics, this is going to be the case. It’s very sad, and maybe one day, it will get better, after these old farts die off, or just dribble in their soup, and remain basically impotent, because that too, is where a lot of this comes from.

Others are just neurotic, which is a nicer word for mentally ill or emotionally unstable. They can’t really give you a logical reason for the animosity.

An example is our late great and beloved Martin Luther King, Jr. I remember when he was assassinated. The next morning, I went to class (I think I was in the 9th or 10th grade). First period was our speech class, and all conversation was abuzz with the news. One ignorant (white) girl –from Torrance- and a senior in the glass, remarked, “Oh, no great loss.” (referencing his death). Well now what does that really say? It says ignorant, because in reality, MLK was as much a loss for the dominant white culture as he was for anybody. Even I knew that at the time, since some of the FAR MORE radical characters in the movement at the time, would have as soon slit her throat as look at her.

The same thing came up just a couple of years ago; in a class. One of the students, (from Florida) remarked that her dad, (maybe our age) had claimed that MLK was nothing more than a trouble maker, and apparently still felt that way today. Ron Paul calls the MLK Holiday, “National Hate Whitety Day”. (after I marched in the snow in DC on behalf of the effort)

So, that’s what I believe you’re seeing in these comments, and I don’t think it will change, but they are dying off, faster than they can reproduce the mentality.

5.0 out of 5 stars Unmasking the wannabe masters of the universe, November 2, 2007
By B. Conover “Editor, onlinejournal.com” - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0977795349/ref=dp _top_cm_cr_acr_txt/105-3463018-2322869?_encoding=U TF8&showViewpoints=1

“In 1954, the most powerful men in the world met for the first time under the auspices of the Dutch royal crown and the Rockefeller family at the luxurious Hotel Bilderberg in the small Dutch town of Oosterbeck. For an entire weekend, the debated the future of the world. When it was over, they decided to meet once every year to exchange ideas and analyze international affairs. They named themselves the Bilderberg Group. Since then, they have gathered yearly in a luxurious hotel somewhere in the world to try to decide the future of humanity. Among the select members of this club are Bill Clinton, Paul Wolfowitz, Henry Kissinger, David Rockefeller, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Tony Blair and many other heads of government, businessmen, politicians, bankers and journalists from all over the world,” writes journalist Daniel Estulin in the opening paragraph of the introduction to his must-read book, The True Story of the Bilderberg Group.

“Nevertheless, in the more than fifty years of their meetings, the press has never been allowed to attend, no statements have ever been released on the attendees’ conclusions, nor has any agenda for a Bilderberg meeting been made public,” Estulin notes.

For some 15 years, Estulin has been a thorn in the sides of the Bilderbergers, relentlessly hunting down their secret meeting places, gaining inside sources who divulge what goes on behind closed doors, even photographing attendees and publicly disclosing it all. Now he has put it all in a book that every person who values freedom and democracy should read.

The Bilderbergers are so secretive that they even try to hide, until the last minute, the location of their gathering places. Attendance is by invitation only and if an invitee’s name is publicly disclosed beforehand, he or she is disinvited.

Perhaps these three quotes will explain what the secrecy is all about. The Times of London in 1977 called the Bilderbergers “a clique of the richest, economically and politically most powerful and influential men in the Western world, who meet secretly to plan events that later appear just to happen.”

Said Bilderberg Group founder Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands, “It is difficult to re-educate people who have been brought up on nationalism to the idea of relinquishing part of their sovereignty to a supranational body.” (The late prince has been replaced by his daughter, Queen Beatrix, who regularly attends the Bilderberg meetings.)

Former British Defense Minister Denis Healey, put it this way, “World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, whether it is to do with national issues or commerce; and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings.”

Every US president since Eisenhower has either belonged to the Bilderberg Group or its older parallel group, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), or been approved by them. As Estulin wrote, the race is no contest when you own both horses. That is why no matter which political party is in power nothing really changes other than the packaging. The puppets who drink at the champagne fountains of the powerful do the bidding of their masters. The people are superfluous to the process.

And it’s not just in the US. The Bilderberg Group and its parallel groups, among which are the CFR, the Trilateral Commission (founded by David Rockefeller and Brzezinski), the Royal Institute of International Affairs (RIIA) based at Chatham House in London, and their interlocking memberships are at work throughout the Western world and are endeavoring to get their hooks into the rest. The European Union is their baby.

When Bilderberger Margaret Thatcher, the high priestess of privatization, balked on adopting the euro as the UK’s currency, the Bilderbergers had her dumped as prime minister and replaced by John Major.

Like the CFR, which in the course of its history has embraced and financed the Bolsheviks, Communists, Socialists, Nazis and fascists, the Bilderbergers also play all sides. Thus, in 1980, the Bilderbergers decided François Mitterand was to be resurrected and restored to power as France’s next president. After attending the 1999 Bilderberg meeting, Romano Prodi was sworn in as president of Europe in the fall of that year; when his termed ended in 2005, he was elected prime minister of Italy.

Estulin makes it clear that these people will use any means—legal or illegal—in pursuit of their goal of total subjugation to their New World Order or One World Company, as they prefer to call it: wars, coups, assassinations; control of banking, finance, business, the media, education (dumbing down all but an elite needed to run things) and even religion to keep people in check.

He notes that David Rockefeller said in his Memoirs, “Some even believe we are a part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure—one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty and I am proud of it.”

Incorporated in this group are the neoconservatives—“those who have determined that Israel’s security should come at the expense of the safety to the United States and be central to all US foreign policy decisions.” Richard Perle is a regular attendee at Bilderberg meetings. Michael Ledeen attended the 2005 meeting.

Media moguls such as Rupert Murdock, the now disgraced Conrad Black, Viacom (parent company of CBS) CEO Sumner Redstone, the Washington Post’s Katherine Graham (now deceased), Washington Post columnists Jim Hoagland and Charles Krauthammer, New York Times Editor Arthur Sulzberger and columnist Thomas L. Friedman, William F. Buckley, Jr., and Bill Moyers have all been Bilderberg meeting invitees.

“The ideas and policies that come out of the Bilderberg annual meetings are used to generate the news in the leading periodicals and news groups of the world. The point is to make the prevalent opinions of the Bilderbergers so appealing that they become public policy and to pressure world leaders unto submitting to the ‘needs of the Masters of the Universe.’ The ‘free world press’ is completely at the mercy of the Bilderbergers disseminating the agreed upon propaganda,” Estulin points out.

This is just a smattering of the information Estulin has managed to pack into his well-written 340-page book, complete with photographs, documents and an index.

If all this seems far-fetched, look around. America has been stripped of its industrial base. The good jobs have been or are being offshored, while Americans are working harder and longer at service sector jobs for less pay and fewer to no benefits. Americans have been dumbed down in public and private schools, universities and colleges. Their only worth now is as consumers of mainly foreign made goods. They are kept in check by religion, sports, idiotic “reality” TV, video games and anything else that turns off thinking.

Democracy, freedom and national sovereignty are anathema to the wannabe masters of the universe. But the Bilderbergers and their parallel groups and allied think tanks have been working to do away with all three. Elections have been rigged. The US, Canada and Great Britain are on the verge of becoming police states, The US, Canada and Great Britain are on the verge of becoming police states, thanks to the bogus “war on terror” used to pump up people’s fears. All that remains in their grand plan is to replace the last vestiges of sovereign nations with a series of regional unions that they will control via the United Nations, outlawing all nationalism.

But they may have overplayed their hand, as the grand scheme is fraying around the edges. Not all Europeans are ready to surrender their countries’ sovereignty to the EU. Canadians who know more about the plan for a North American Union than Americans are diametrically opposed to it. A revitalized Russia, which has a historical wariness of outsiders, has its own ideas. And despite all the Western investment in China, Beijing is proving to be a problem in its refusal to float the yuan to bail out the financial mess the greedy Bilderberger bankers and financiers have made, which may explain the Carlyle Group’s sale of 9.9 percent of itself to the Chinese as a hoped for hook to bring China to their table.

As the old adage says, knowledge is power, and Daniel Estulin is providing every reader of The True Story of the Bilderberg Group with the knowledge they need to aid in destroying the Bilderbergers’ grand plan by bringing it to the attention of family, friends and colleagues. It is up to us to get this book into as many hands as possible, because Estulin will get no help promoting it from the corporate media.

Collectively, the people hold the power save themselves and that frightens the Bilderbergers and their cohorts the most. But that power is useless if the people refuse to exercise it or surrender it to those who would enslave us.

Obama is totally an establishment sock puppet. His wife is a CFR member and his advisor Bryzenski is a Trilateral Commission member. These are the types who were called the Wise Old Men in LBJ’s time. Every time LBJ had doubts about the Vietnam War, the WOM’s would urge LBJ to stay the course. Obama has said nothing about dismantling Homeland Security. His deadlines on the Iraqi troup withdrawal are just as nebulous as HRC’s. THe Estalbishment wants to recreate a Filipino type colony in the Middle East. This is a longterm goal and agenda of an entrenched bureaucracy with ironclad links to elite think tanks and secretive “talk shops”. You cannot vote for change within the current power structure. Obama is another puppet. I suggest that everyone stop paying their incoem taxes.

Or maybe he/she is Rupert Murdoch pretending to be Sean Hannity pretending to be Hillary Clinton pretending to be Douglas Chalmers. Whoa, I think I’m on to something!
Nah, he just loves Hillaruh. I respectfully disagree.

If it’s a closet it’s a pretty big one.

re By Douglas Chalmers, January 30 at 2:54 am #

“#By Mike Mid-City, January 29: “Once upon a time when I was a young man I had hope too.  I want it back......

You are identifying with Obama as your imaginary alter ego, Mike Mid-City. That is anything but human, ha ha. No wonder so many are so deluded by BO. You are all fantasizing, one way or another.

When you are dribbling in your soup, will the rest of us still have to put up with what you voted for? Your “hope” is merely your own impotent dreams of the past. Wanting an illusion is one thing, getting it is another.

#By Tony Wicher + Mike Mid-City, January 29:  “Re: His lady fair? I thought you were talking about Hillary, but a lady? That’s no lady, that’s his wife...”

Are you shitting us, you two? If that is the way you speak about your future president, then no wonder you have the one that is there in Washington now. That is all that you lot deserve........!!!”
----------------------------------------------------
DC,

I too am an old white dude (61) who remembers the days back in the early 60’s before the assassinations and the Vietnam War got big when there was political hope that people believed in and the country really was making progress. When Nixon took office those days were gone. I do want to get this country back on track, and I think I am part of a wave of mass consciousness among us, triggered by the spectacle of the Bush Administration. We feel a need for political moral renewal. Obama senses this and he has become the candidate of people who feel this way. Clinton is the candidate of the Democratic establishment. She obviously carries with her all the political and moral baggage involved with that. Obama obviously does not. Clinton is a DLC Democrat to the bone. Obama is something else. I’m a member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party, as Howard Dean used to say. (As party chairman he can’t endorse anybody, but I bet he would like to.) I don’t want a DLC Democrat if I can help it, though I will take one to a Republican. To me Obama is more like a real liberal, like John Kennedy was, with all his flaws (and believe me, I remember them too). That is why Ted is supporting him. This is a revolt against the DLC domination of the party. As a progressive, why would you not support this insurgent candidacy?

I just can’t understand your antipathy to Obama.

You know what? I am beginning to think Chalmers is a closet Clinton supporter too.

Bill/Hill are sneaking into Florida to claim an unethical prize just days after S. Carolina voters overwhelmingly said “Lay off the Karl Rove dirty racist tricks.”

Even the Republicans are on their way to electing McCain based on his track record of selectively honoring the high ground in taxes, ecology, campaign finance legislation.

Voters aren’t going to the Democratic primaries (or the Republican primaries for that matter)in record numbers to crown the candidate that is the best conniver. Bill/Hill look tawdry. Obama by a mile.

I call shenanigans. Douglas Chalmers is Hillary Clinton in disguise. You’ve been found out! “....dribbling in your soup...” That’s charming.

#By Mike Mid-City, January 29: “Once upon a time when I was a young man I had hope too.  I want it back......

You are identifying with Obama as your imaginary alter ego, Mike Mid-City. That is anything but human, ha ha. No wonder so many are so deluded by BO. You are all fantasizing, one way or another.

When you are dribbling in your soup, will the rest of us still have to put up with what you voted for? Your “hope” is merely your own impotent dreams of the past. Wanting an illusion is one thing, getting it is another.

#By Tony Wicher + Mike Mid-City, January 29:  “Re: His lady fair? I thought you were talking about Hillary, but a lady? That’s no lady, that’s his wife...”

Are you shitting us, you two? If that is the way you speak about your future president, then no wonder you have the one that is there in Washington now. That is all that you lot deserve........!!!

In thinking about Tony, I don’t believe Obama ever ‘lowered’ himself in ‘fighting’ with Clinton. It’s more like he didn’t just stand there and take abuse. There’s a huge difference there.

So yeah, he may have ‘talked back’ which of course is always viewed as being ‘out of line’ or ‘surely’ or defensive if it’s coming from someone who is seem as not as ‘superior’ as the one they are ‘talking back’ to. But hey...he’s a black guy, he’s used to it.

So in reality, I think he FAILED to stoop to the level the the Clinton’s fell to, (out of desperation, because desperate people do desperate things) and that’s been well noted by a whole lot of Americans, across the board.

Simply put, he’s run a cleaner and classier campaign, with honesty and integrity. And, in a sort of ironic kind of a way, he’s brought it at the right time. After this many years of the Dick Bush gangster regime, Americans don’t take this stuff like honesty and intergrity as a given anymore.

In other words, the paradox is that if things hadn’t become so incredibly horrible here in America, as a result of this old guard, and the fact that they’ve allowed it to happen, what Obama brings to the cure might not be noticed.

Funny how those things work....

soulja…

I’ll buy your book.

That’s no lady, that’s his wife!

Bill Clinton got very aggressive in defense of his lady fair. He lost his temper and his judgment. He did offend a lot of black people and white liberals too. He also dominated the campaign to the point where it’s not clear who’s running. After South Carolina, I’m sure he will keep a lower profile. Hillary will do much better if she is seen running on her own merits. She’s still the front-runner. 

I don’t want a third Clinton term. Clinton was a stopgap against the Republicans. He did not succeed in building a broad-based coalition for change. Obama appeals to a wide range of Americans with his approach to people and to problems. He is a breath of fresh air. He thinks outside the box. He can get Reagan Democrats and even Evangelicals to vote for him. He has extraordinary political talents. He has also shown against Clinton that he is a tough fighter. Everybody seems to think he “lowered himself” by fighting with Clinton, but sometimes you have to fight, and I think he won big.

“Bill and Hillary would never, ever dream of stooping to racial politics must be feeling now, after Bill was videotaped in the act. On Saturday, as Democrats in South Carolina went to the polls, a reporter asked Bill about Obama’s boast that it took two Clintons to try to beat him. Bill replied: “Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in ‘84 and ‘88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here.”

Now Bill Clinton’s reply at worst was couched in the perspective that the media plays—the expectation that race is the framework. In my own perspective, there is no evidence that Bill Clinton himself consciously used the race card to discredit or deride Obama.

I am an Obama supporter because he gives us the most hope in overcoming the deep partisanship we’ve had too long. I think that Robinson does all of us a disservice by looking for racism at every corner.

His time would be better spent in chiding both candidates for not discussing important issues like the current health care disaster and a one-payer health care system, about poverty, about ending the deadly war, etc.

Mr. Chalmers brings up a good point about ageism.  Actually, i heard the issue discussed in a few places early in the campaign...but then it faded into the background, behind race and gender.

Part of the generation gap that is showing in the elections cycle stems from different memories.  Many voters under 35 or so (depending on their awareness) don’t remember the Clinton years in the same way as their boomer parents.  This is particularly true of the “millennial generation”; they simply assume that times were always so good and so are less likely to give Bill Clinton (and by association, his wife) the benefit of the doubt.  Their political memories of President Clinton revolve mostly around scandal.

With Generation X, and portions of the millennial generation, there is also a growing disenchantment with the boomers.  They see a generation that prides itself on radical change, but spent middle age enriching itself with no thought but their own self-interest.  Is this a fair accusation?  No, at least not completely.  They will understand what happens as real life takes over their ideals, just as it did with their parents.

But i think that it is safe to say that for many younger people, the mystique of their boomer parents’ actions of the sixties have worn off...and even turned bitter.  The generation that popularized drug use sat idly by and watched their children arrested.  The generation that started Earth Day spent the Clinton years buying McMansions and SUVs.

These young people won’t be any better, probably, but they don’t know that yet…

Ageism? Possibly. I think, more likely, that ‘old v. new’ argument might be more in reference to the fond ‘nostalgia’ for the Clinton years by some may be not so relevant today. Just a thought.

If, as Obama said Saturday night, “this election is about the past versus the future,” the Clintons are in for more rude surprises.

Nice article and indeed, one can still hope for real change; maybe it’s already happened and we just don’t yet know it.

This is a great piece from Eugene...and here’s what it all comes down to.... He sums it up…

“...But there are signs that the country has changed—that it’s less concerned about identity than character, more interested in commonality than difference, hungrier for inspiration than triangulation....”

Yes, this country HAS changed, whether people want to accept that or not, INCLUDING the Clintons. Even for those who still ‘hunger’ for the days of old, (and nearly ANY of the past, at least for the current population, is better than what we’re trying to survive now) must accept that things have changed.

So, we can either embrace it, based on the hope that it will provide a better existence for all of us, or those in denial can continue to dig in their heels, hanging on to shreds and threads of earlier existence that no longer exists, and to which we can never return. As far as I’m concerned, it’s just as well.

Have things really been so ‘great’ for everyone during the past couple or so decades?

My mother would have re-painted at least the living room, five times by now...maybe more. Throw in some new wallpaper too....

Playing which card??? - #Quote Eugene Robinson: “But there are signs that the country has changed—that it’s less concerned about identity than character, more interested in commonality than difference, hungrier for inspiration than triangulation. ......If, as Obama said Saturday night, “this election is about the past versus the future,” ...”

Oh, really, Eugene Robinson, the “triangulation” you are describing now is that between race and sex and the past has just come forwards to anoint Barack Obama as the end of Camelot. If the old goats in their boring old suits didn’t ruin the ideal, then the lack of credible policies of BO certainly will.

Again, we find that this comes back to Obama’s ‘old vs new’ as a kind of hypocritical ageism. That is as discriminatory as sexisim or racism but people are not quite so aware of it when it happens as the other transgressions against individual’s rights. In other words, it is a covert way of attacking Hillary’s seniority as “the most experience and the most qualified person”.

So, Eugene Robinson, you are thus ‘playing the age card’ against Hillary yourself by making these quotes. What you have avoided are the issues behind why people in South Carolina, and black Americans in particular, are so polarized.  And, believe it or not, the “female candidate” label you are trying to “hang around Clinton’s neck” (Hillary’s, I presume) is something that is equally as obvious to everybody anyway.