Did you notice how no one ever even bothered to rebutt DK’s arguments?

CY,

On this -we could have done so much better- we DO agree.

Patsy

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

Patsy:

Thanks for the clarification.  You are, of course, correct that Gore won the popular vote, and that Harris’ machinations and skullduggery were largely responsible for what happened in Florida.  As an aside, had Nader not run, Gore would have had another 2.5 million or so votes nationawide - which would have made his case much stronger even having lost the electoral college.

As for the Religious Right, I suppose I should have clarified that in some states, it was the Religious Right that not only pushed Bush over Gore re the popular vote, but also pushed the electors toward him as well.

Peace.

Hank, I agree. I’m overwhelmingly sorry at the absence of Dennis Kucinich, and I would have been far more impressed with any of the other candidates had they chosen to ‘sit it out’ as a result. Any one or all of them should have most assuredly done that in Nevada. But, none did.

Meantime, I’ve just read that Dennis is abandoning his bid for the office, and will apparently make that announcement tomorrow. So, it would appear that we are left with only two to select from, or at least I’m left with only two to select from, since I’ve yet to see or hear anything from the Clinton’s that makes them a viable option, and that’s really what we’re looking at. The Clintons, or Obama or Edwards.

So for me, the choice is between Obama and Edwards now.

Still, I’m very sad. Gravel is still in the race, though of course he’s gotten no help either. Same with Dodd. He too, would be acceptable. My guess is that whomever the Dems select, will have to run against McCain. Anybody else the Repugs might run is a definitely loser.

Patsy:

While I agree with most of your post, you are missing an important point when you note that Bush did not need to court the center to win.  Even setting aside possible voter machine chicanery, Bush was put “over the top” by the so-called Religious Right.  However, the Religious Right is now hopelessly fractionalized, and NO GOP candidate - not even Huckabee - can rely on even a significant share of that vote.  So the GOP candidate in the 2008 election will have to consider a different strategy - and if McCain is smart (and he seems to be, for the most part), he will court the center as well.

Peace.

What is it with the former Al Franken Show pundits?  First Lawrence O’Donnell, now you, Joe Conason, have ripped John Edwards a new one.  Edwards was the only grownup in the most recent debate.  A “budding” populist?  Please!  Though his populism wasn’t strong in his senate career, it was quite strong in his 2004 presidential campaign, and he has been on a one man anti-poverty crusade almost since November 3, 2004.  That’s over three years ago.  Also, you say that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama know that “drawing support from the center is the only way to win elections in America.”  When did George W. Bush EVER court the center?  And judging from the last two presidential elections, the true “only way to win elections in America” is to cheat.

Hillary was right in bringing out Obama’s irregularities.  He’s done the same to her.
Is it the right thing to do?  Does it promise votes?
Yes, and maybe.

I admit to enjoying a trifle fight amongst the contenders, but, I think that last debate went overboard.  I think Barack found that he was way over his head in trying to best the best with Hillary.  Still, I think Edwards finally found his voice with the opening they left him and worked the debate to his favor.

Vote with whom you feel will do the best for our country and not get persuaded or fooled by the medling media into thinking this a popularity contest.

I agree.  I’m just waiting to see how the Bushies accomplish this.  Perhaps another “false flag” operation (i.e., “terrorist” attack on U.S. soil) just prior to the elections, allowing them to postpone the elections indefinitely due to a “national emergency?” Or perhaps between the elections and inauguration day, thus keeping Bush in office indefinitely under the same guise?

We’ll see.

Once again, we are taken in by the lies and spin of the media, be it MSM or alternative.  Because ALL of them are playing into this bogus “Hill and Obama Duke It Out” headline.  Balderdash.

As a total percentage of the 2-hour debate, the tit-for-tatting represented only a small portion.  Rather, the candidates DID spend the majority of time discussing the issues in a cogent, direct way. One may disagree with what they SAID about these issues, or question their individual sincerity.  But the fact is that the majority of the debate WAS spent discussing issues.

Yet you would not know this by listening to the media.  Their corporate masters (including, apparently, Truthdig) are too focused on “controversy” because it sells newspapers, gets TV viewers, and secures hits to websites.

The farce is with us…

Peace.

Okay, nobody is any good so we can all go home now. Wasn’t that easy.

And nice swipe at Edwards by the way. Sticking up, in a kind of passive-aggressive way, for Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama although they were the two monkeys throwing poo at each other and the only elbow you throw is at John Edwards? Thought better of you than this Joe.

Let me just point out that:

Obama is unelectable because he is black and there are not enough black votes to overcome the anti black voting even among Democrats.

Hillary would be unelectable because of the anti female vote except for the fact that there ARE enough women who CAN vote and overcome the male opposition if only they WILL do so.

I doubt that either of them would make a decent pimple on the posterior of a real POTUS, but that doesn’t matter very much because it isn’t likely that either of them would ever be allowed to take office in the present configuration of the Bushitter gang of thugs. These people didn’t spend all their time and money taking over our government and our country just to walk away and let some liberal grab the reins. I’m looking for the Bushitters to suspend elections and keep the moron in place for as much as fifteen or twenty years. The only other possibility I see would be for them to replace him with Jeb at their convention and cheat their way back to the same position with a different puppet.

The reason that the petty bickering among the Dimocraps doesn’t matter is because none of them can be allowed to wrest power away from the junta.

It’s hard to debate with people you are TOTAL agreement with.  What would they say?  Instead they plunder the annals of “history” to find out if someone happened to do something other than the same monotonous dribble they call an existence.  What..!!!!  You admitted to wearing yellow shorts in 1978, OMG, that is just soooo…uncool…...

Actually, when politicians expose each others backgrounds in this manner, they perform a public service.  The public realizes not to get its hopes too high—that these politicians have learned to follow the money, personally and politically.