The Clintons have already offended too many people who usually vote democratic for the nomination to be worth anything to them.  Hillary moved on to Tennesee before the votes were counted in SC and now people are just supposed to forget what she and Bill did there.  Few are going to forget.

As far as I am concerned, both Obama and Edwards are Jesus Christ compared to Billary. The Clintons are just sleazy as hell. Even the Republicans are right about that. It’s too bad. I voted for Bill twice and I still think he was a relatively good president. Relative, that is, to Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. But after all, that is not exactly fullsome praise. As Romney said the other day, 1n 1994, after two years, the people elected a Republican congress which he had to work with for the next six years, so his economic successes could be said to be the result of being “Republican lite”. Of course, under Bush II the corruption got so bad that every other presidency looks good by comparison. We Americans are sick of it and are going to put the Democrats back in, I hope. Relying on our human decency, I think political cleanliness is going to be a big factor in the general election. I don’t think the Clintons pass the smell test. They will sell out principle every time for political advantage. “First Black President” Clinton will morph into Lee Atwater when it serves his interests. A lot of honest independents might prefer an honest Republican. So come on, fellow Democrats! Obama and Edwards are both candidates we can be proud of. Let’s support them against the Clinton machine. They are both right that Clinton represents “politics as usual”.  Let’s fight for something better.

The tentacles of media censorship continue to grow everywhere.  Soon the last bastion of free media, the internet, will be toast.

http://www.velvetrevolution.us/video/hillary.wmv

By Liza, January 25: ” Get a life, Mr. Chalmers…”

I am happy to say that I have a life without you, Liza, uhh.

Yeah? I should forgive him for this? Never. To hell with both of them.

Get a life, Mr. Chalmers.

I’M NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, NOW AM I - #By Liza, January 24: ”...at the risk of stating the obvious, here is the obvious answer…”

That must be your dumbest comment on Truthdig yet, Liza, uhh. But now that Kuchinich is withdrawing, you might have a chance.

Don’t forget to visit AIPAC…......

By kath cantarella, January 23: ”...i’d still like to know more about this Obama guy who might be running the world next year…”

How Barack Obama learned to love Israel http://www.electronicintifada.net/v2/article6619.shtml

Check the new logo - a six-pointed star to replace the ring-thing logo….. and check the second pic for Michelle scowling when listening to an Arab man speak.

Reviewing the speech, Ha’aretz Washington correspondent Shmuel Rosner concluded that Obama “sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani. At least rhetorically, Obama passed any test anyone might have wanted him to pass. So, he is pro-Israel. Period.”

Douglas,
I think that might your dumbest comment on Truthdig.  Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, here is the obvious answer:

I’M NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, NOW AM I?

BTW, I do not smoke.

I voted for Bill Clinton twice, and I think he was a fairly good president, with a record of eight years of peace and prosperity.  In the last few weeks, I have seriously begun to despise him. He has played the race card, created wedges between whites and blacks, Latinos and blacks, deliberately and with malice aforethought, because it serves his political interests. For this I will not forgive him, and neither will black people. White liberals shouldn’t either. No one who loves this country should forgive him. This so-called “first black president” turns out to be a motherfucking bubba after all. 

Fuck you, Bill, and your wife too.

It seems to me there needs to be a reckoning here, but wait for it; no, because it’s not coming.  Forget “Bill’s” past:  Look at Hillary’s present!  She did vote for this pre-emptive war in Iraq!  She has refused to say it was a wrong choice/vote!  We’re not going to get to pick and choose; these decisions have already been made for us by the media.  Now we have the choice of the lesser of two evils.  Gosh, aren’t we lucky?  Look at the positive side; we don’t have to think too much.  After all, it’s not exactly our strong point.

Carl Bernstein’s book (A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton, Random House) details a report that Bill and Hillary had a plan calling for each to support the other for president.

Bill’s just holding up his end of the bargain, which is only fair, considering the crap she had to put up with from him.

The Clinton’s basic strategy is to pull Obama down into the mud with them. They are counting on the media and the people not to be able to tell the difference. They may be right. We shall see.

I did watch Obama’s statement, and I found it troubling.  I don’t give Reagan credit for anything positive that affected the country I was living in.  You could say Hitler was a transformative person, too, but you wouldn’t unless you admired him and in doing so appreciated his leadership.  I thought Obama’s viewpoint was more than clear re Reagan.

More and more, Obama troubles me, especially this Republican thing of his.  Many of his campaign leaders are Republicans—and usually they are these young girls who have a crush on Obama.  There are serious, fundamental differences between Republicans and Democrats—or should I say between me and Republicans.  Obama has gone overboard with this.  In states where you are trying to energize your base and get to know your voters, would you appoint Republicans as the organizing leadership?  I have yet to meet any Obama state organizers from working class communities?  Where is the diversity?

And I did not appreciate his Dexter Church address in which he criticized the congregation for being intolerant, anti immigrant, and bad parents.  He didn’t know any of those people personally to accuse them of that. 

I’ve made up my mind. I’m voting for Edwards.  Obama can’t dance.

Hillary’s accomplishments:

http://www.michaelbutler.com/blog/civic/2008/01/16/ mb-civic-original-reporting-what-has-hillary-actually-done/

Peace.

Although I cannot speak to the Arkansas investment issue, I would like to put the Wal-Mart issue to rest, if I may, since I spent a great deal of time researching it.

Hillary was appointed to the Wal-Mart board when it was forced to add a woman.  And Sam Walton did NOT want her, because she was considered too “activist.”

Within months of taking her seat on the Board, Hillary began working slowly but tirelessly to change Wal-Mart’s environmental policies.  During the time she was there, Wal-Mart’s environmental practices became 50% “greener” than they were, not only increasing environmental friendliness, but actually saving the company money.

As for the union issue, Hillary saw very quickly that this was a “non-starter” (the rest of the board being comprised of Walton loyalists) and “chose her battle” on the environmental issue.

Could she have done more re the union issue?  Should she at least have tried?  Perhaps.  But to suggest that she was openly complicit in the anti-union policies - which long predated her tenure on the board - is simply not the case.

Peace.

Tek:

I’m curious how you found out that Obama was illegally campaigning in Florida.  My mother (a Floridian) told me the same thing: that she had seen at least one and possibly two TV ads for Obama - even though Dems are not permitted to do ANY campaigning in the state.  And Obama has the unmitigated gall to accuse Hillary of underhanded practices!!

Peace.

By Liza, January 23: “Hillary’s accomplishments are?????????”

What are YOUR accomplishments, Liza??????

Smoking some good stuff????

Slick Willie is having a recurring dream of being in a side office in the White House with a desk on which there is telephone that he has used many a time to balance out the acts of a lass by the name of Monica who preferred to work “under the desk” so to speak.

What with Hillary having her own Monica and throwing it in his face every chance she gets and he never having had to pay for it that kind of denial will put any able psuedo-saxophone player in a napping mood in or outside a church service.

As the scripted dude man was always reminding us, “you gotta pity the fool”.

You have a point, Blueshift.  It is not out of the realm of possibility that Bill’s shenanigans could once again become the focus of the “right wing conspiracy” that hates the Clintons.  Besides, Rush needs something to talk about for the next four years.  I definitely think Hillary will be one term, if elected.

Hillary’s accomplishments are?????????

Sharon,
What are you smoking?  Sounds like some good stuff.

Bill is going to fight like the dickens to get access to the interns of Washington. He had time to fool around while he was president…imagine what he’ll do with time on his hands? And though I have never voted for a ‘conservative,’ and confess to having voted twice for Bill, I will vote against Hillary because of what this demeaned man has become…and is likely to do with all that free time.

Hillary, want me vote? Lose him. Fast.

“Barack-tinted spectacles…”

Brilliant!

What Hillary and Obama are doing is having a non-campaign like they are supposed to.  They are both corporate shills so they don’t want anything of any importance to be discussed.  Otherwise people might start to wonder why the will of the people regarding the war, the economy, and health care is being ignored by the major candidates.  Personal attacks provide the illusion that there is some sort of contest going on.  Hillary and Obama know perfectly well what they are doing.  It’s a hell of a lot easier to verbally bitch slap one another than to try to explain their convoluted, and ultimately empty positions on the war, the economy, and health care.  If Obama were a woman too, we’d be having a hair pull on national tv.  For many people (here) that would be better than a debate.

Yeah, let’s all vote for Obama!

#Re: clinton bashing - Bill Clinton is brilliant! - By Sue, January 22: ”...he’s bringing in tons of ratings for all media outlets. He’s helping Hillary win. (what’s wrong with that?)...... It’s a tough world out there, Bill and Hillary’s been there done that, Obama has not reached that pinnacle yet. And it shows…”

Nice to know that someone cann see the obvious, Sue. As imperfect as the democratic political system is in the USA, the one thing that it can do is change but that change can only occur within the system.

If that means changing the system, well and good but first you have to have someone intelligent and capable and experienced to make a start. Constantly dividing that up into intelligent OR capable OR experienced is utterly self-defeating.

But that is what the various Democratic candidates’ camps are doing. They have no understanding of the power of unity. In the end, they could still lose against the GOP as a result. It is naivete at its worst.

I do not see that Mr. Bill Clinton is that much different from the Mr. Bill of the past . He is just in a different position than he was as President . He legally could not run for a third term and now this is his best and last chance for a third run for the White House .
  I feel that the Average American Voter is so naive or uninformed or just caught up in the entertainment of what we call our political system . Bill and Hillary are PROFESSIONAL politicians . They are married politically , but probably loathe each other in private . Many voters take everything they see and hear at face value , because denial of what is beneath the surface is the only tool left to keep Americans believing that this system and the people running around in it are actually in it for US - US .
    The Clinton Presidency was a good show of keeping the country fairly stable , but who really prospered during that time ? If he was such a great President , how did we arrive at the place we find ourselves in today ? How could anyone with any sanity vote for the piece of garbage ruling this country today .
      If people do not realize very soon that our entire political system is a fraud - they are in for multiple shocks of revelation in the near future . This house of cards we call America is falling down card by card . Where at this crucial point in time are all the so called “heroes” of the Democratic Party ? Howard Dean is running the show from an unknown location . Dennis “the menace” Kucinich seems satisfied to be told by his beloved party to “go lay in the corner boy and don’t get up until we call you ” . Russ Feingold must have fallen into quicksand , probably never to be heard from again . Al Gore is or at least seems to be getting more acomplished outside the political arena . Etc. , Etc. , Etc . .
    We are faced with the prospect of a choice between Hillary Rodham Clinton and John McCain for the office of President . The only changes we will see are for the worse . This country is going to be populated by two classes - we are almost at the tipping point now - a population of FILTHY RICH and DIRT POOR .
      I pity the Americans who buy into this aborted system . I know what is to be faced in the near future , that being our country sold piece by piece , our young people jobless or starving or fighting in another staged war . The so called elite minority using the rest of us as toilet paper . Many will question how we got to such a low condition . Remember that you can’t win if you don’t play , but also , you can’t LOSE if you don’t play . We need to stop playing their game and create a game of our own , one of fairness, truth , justice , and transparency - all the rules we were promised by the current crop of polluticians , and corrupted nibble by nibble by the party rats and special interests . We need a fresh start if there is still enough time and a few courageous people to get us back on track . Any takers ????????

bill is hillary’s hitman. his legacy is his wife in the oval office. nothing else matters.

his job is to draw obama, the ‘unifier’ into a gloves off contest that he can’t win, and he’s succeeding. hillary is already seen as contentious and cantankerous (an image leavened by her timely tears). this kind of bickering becomes her, and she’s good at it. it won’t lose her votes, but it will lose obama support, and right now he has to make up a lot of ground by February 5.

obama’s wishful thinking rhetoric has weakened the knees of many a good columnist. perhaps its time to take off the barack-tinted spectacles and get a little reality.

MackTN:

Excellent assessment.  Re “If you win the nomination, the Republicans arent going to be nice to you either,” I have been saying this exact thing on these boards for some time.  Also, “And if you win the presidency and attempt to implement those hopes and changes?”  Yup.  A president does not “change” things single-handedly.  He has to work with others, including Congress.  And that is not easy.

Bravo on this post.

Peace.

Neither Obama nor the Clintons have the upper hand on this issue.  Ive watched the Obama statement, and it clearly came off as an admiring remark of a quotel= change Reagan could implement because the country was ready for it. unquote.  What country is he talking about?  I wasnt ready for it: I didnt appreciate it, either.  I didnt admire one thing from the brazen head.

And Ive stated my views about Clinton and his denuding the Dems of progressives with his centering of the party.  He did this to win, not because of some philosophical belief.  He made George Bush possible.

Rage said, “It’s not like Hill and Obama are arguing the issues. This is just a bunch of he-said-she-said-he-meant crap. I personally wish they’d get back to lying about what they’re going to do, should we elect either one of these jokers.  After all, Dumya’s leaving quite a large burning bag of crap for the next President to clean up.”

Louise said, “We all know who owns the media. We all know why they drive the issues that define for us who we should vote for.”

Louise’s comment answers Rage’s.  Actually, Rage, Hillary and Obama ARE “arguing the issues,” and did so at the debate - for FAR more time than they spent tit-for-tatting.  Indeed, Hillary DID note (and Obama ditto-ed) that Bush is “leaving quite a large burning bag of crap for the next President to clean up.”

But as Louise implies, you would not know it from the way the media is reporting the debate.  That’s because the media sells CONTROVERSY, not substance.  All the headlines today were variations of “Obama and Hillary Get Personal” or “Clinton and Obama Duke It Out,” etc.  Yet, as noted, as a percentage of the 2-hour debate, they spent very LITTLE time doing that.  A more honest headline might have been “Clinton, Obama and Edwards Square Off on the Issues; Some Fireworks Ensues,” etc.

But as Louise notes, that is NEVER what you are going to hear from the media.  What an absolute travesty.

Peace.

Would people be so uptight about these exchanges?  Personally, I think they are rather exciting because they are pushing these candidates off script into a battle for a very important job.  The more off message they veer, the more we learn about them and the more they have to answer to.  These political skirmishes are relatively mild and between equals.  EQUALS!  Let them work it out.

I for one am tired of and bored with the slick, overrehearsed campaigns of past years where everyone works out every word and every punctuation mark when appearing before voters.  Those yawners were deceptive, and voters learned little about the candidates that they didnt want you to know.  But a few well-placed jabs here and there and people appear, and you get a good long look at who is asking for your vote.

People need to stop complaining about Bill Clinton.  He is doing what he is supposed to be doing—helping his candidate who is also his wife win.  I, who is probably overly sensitive when it comes to racial slights, find absolutely NOTHING that is patronizing in a racial way coming out of the Clintons mouth.  They are trying to devalue their opponents, and this is how competitions are played out.  For Obama to be offended at the hardball paints him as a naive.  He should be flattered that they are fighting him as an EQUAL and as a formidable foe.  RISE TO THE OCCASION BARACK.  Fight back.

My advice to Barack.  Push the college kids and the ivy leaguers to the side, banish Oprah back to Hollywood, and bring on some experienced political leaders who know this terrain and who know how the system works. This only gets worse.  If you win the nomination, the Republicans arent going to be nice to you either.  And if you win the presidency and attempt to implement those hopes and changes?  Good luck, buddy.  You will need the chops, the calluses you are building up on the campaign trail.

I think this is the old Bill.  He was pretty tough in in campaigns and debate and for a time seamingly rude, but he was so sharp on the issues you just had to listen and think.  He once said something like, I felt I was the better man for the job so I spoke up.  What urks him now possibly is that Obamma wants to win on the “trust me” platform, like a candidate would say: I support Mom, apple pie, and the American flag, so says Obamma.  Who is the Illinois senator that time is formost for impressions of Washington. 

People give Reagan credit for winning the cold war, he liked to spend on military true, but I think it was the crazy Brezhneve that drove the Soviets bankrupt, he went bonkers making thousands and thousands of tanks literally putting many of his own people into starvation.  I remember Reagan’s comment to tear down this wall still sounded a little like talking down to Gorbechoff.  Putin has like feeling about it today.

not only elected officials, but how about the supreme court?

Real fish

certainly he did not overtly “praise” reagan; however, merely by invoking his name, by choosing him above all others to illustrate point, is clear demonstration to me that he was reaching out to conservatives and letting them know that he is simpatico. so, yes, he was praising him.
and clinton did not lack the ideas to change the re-direction of reagan. he did not attempt to as he largly staid the course. how do you think he prosecuted a surplus, by taking from the rich to give to the poor? hell no, he like reagan, despised the poor, and it was they, as usual, that felt the brunt of clinton’s economic turn around.
what you don’t understand is that we don’t “elect” anything. we select based on what the powers that be set before us.

we got the clown king because that’s who they wanted. don’t you remember that he lost the popular vote? and that was even after all the vote fraud and corruption.
we select nothing. just ask kucinich.

Alot could be solved in our government by the states legislatures enacting laws requiring term limits for elected officials in all 50 states. 

Clinton is a package deal like him or not, he has alot of baggage.

Amen!

No prlblem.  However, let’s also forget that Obama is a lifetime member of CFR.  And that Edwards was also “vetted” by the Bilderbergers.

Peace.

Try to ignore those Bilderberg meetings Billary has attended in order advance the New Feudalism.

When will people get over their irrational hatred of the Clintons?

Okay, they weren’t perfect, but they weren’t evil either.

Where does it say that former Presidents have to STFU and just smile and wave?

I’m sick and tired of the way everything they do is blown out of proportion.  I saw the clip of the Big Dog talking to the reporter.  And just like when he got onto Chris Wallace, he wasn’t unhinged or out of control, he was just assertive.

Hillary didn’t “lose it” in the NH debate and she didn’t break down in tears a few days later.

Start reporting and quit spinning.

(Bill Clinton)”...redefine and reposition the Democratic Party so that it became viable again. All the Democratic candidates who are running this year, including Obama, owe him their gratitude.”
 
  The DLC Democrats have triangulated and compromised their reason for existence away. If they aren’t totally irrelevant, they are totally ineffective—when they aren’t openly ENABLING the NeoCon Right by filling the vacuum of formerly moderate Republicans and marginalizing true Democrats as some lunatic Left-wing fringe.  The Bush Administration could’ve never wrought the damages they did without the complicity of Clinton-era DLC Democrats. Time they got tossed in the ash can for good.

  What planet do these pundits live on? Oh yeah, the inside-the-beltway moon orbiting way out in the nether reaches.

and being a sleaze comes natural to him.

  Please make the Clintons go away.

One of the narratives that i find so disturbing about this campaign is how the Clinton era gets dressed up.  To be sure, in comparison to what we live with now, the 90’s were indeed halcyon days.  But were they really halcyon days when made to stand without comparison to the Bush administration?

Bill Clinton was the most historically fortunate president in most of American history.  With the end of the Cold War, he had the opportunity to fundamentally shift the direction of America.  The lack of giant bogey man across the ocean also allowed American politics to focus on itself instead of propping up the National Security State.  Have we forgotten that the Clinton WH did everything they could to sabotage the Thompson hearings on campaign finance scandals?  And this was after Thompson offered the Democrats subpoenas to make the effort bi-partisan. (When the Democrats, following the WH lead, turned Thompson down, his own party then pilloried him too.)

Have we forgotten that the foundation for our economic excesses (which look like they are currently crashing down on our heads regardless of emergency rate cuts this morning) were laid and championed by the Clinton administration.  And here-in lies another problem with our ability to remember