Good Question Priscilla,

And, there is even an answer on one of the other threads, posted by MackTN, right there from the area, where the SC primary is coming up. I’ll try to find the post for you, but here’s sort of a paraphrase to what it was about, that would answer your question..

Hillary (and Bill) have a great deal of long term support in that area. (remember Slick Willey was also known ‘affectionately’ as the “First Black President”.) So, over the years, many of the black politicians have been able to maintain their ‘power’ –or what they think they have of it- via support from the Clinton machine.

Now, one politician in particular, (A Mr. Ford) actually made the statement that a win or support for Obama, in regard to the Democratic party, would somehow, in his logic, wipe out the chances for ANY other black person to win ANYTHING in the South, on the Democratic ticket. (No I don’t understand this logic at all, but it doesn’t surprise me).

That said, (and based on that illogical view) he believes that the ONLY option is to support Hillary.

I’ll see if I can find that post. It was quite alarming. But again, I’m not particularly surprised. Things don’t appear to have changed a whole lot in the south, regardless of the race or gender of its occupants.

I should also add that I don’t believe it has anything to do with a ‘Bradley effect’, but that’s just my own opinion. If Barack Obama were not running, (and Hillary still was) I’d simply vote for anyone other than her, and I may still. I like Kucinich. This is one of those rare times (for Democrats at least) when we actually have a decent selection, and don’t HAVE to select the ‘worst of the evils.’

I’d really appreciate having a female president, and of course there are many who could have, and still could, do an excellent job. Hillary’s just not one of ‘em.

I wish Truthdig had an edit function. That above should be “argument”.

I won’t buy the argue that it wasn’t the fraudulent voting that was responsible for the reversal at the polls. Unlike Durst, I believe we have matured enough to look at candidate’s character above all in contest to find the least ugliest contestant in a perverse beauty contest. Number one we have an ex drug felon running the Diebold voting system. Number two we have Guliani scoring 9.11% in three townships. What are the odds of that??? I suggest that Durst not quit his day job, and if he doesn’t have a day job then he should get one quick, because he only has two more weeks to come up with rent next month. Also he probably has bad breath. He has that look of halitosis.

Fianlly, has anybody come up with the Diebold effect?

Count on the Clintons to come up with all sorts of subtle ways to play the nigger card.

“What makes it so difficult for a white person to understand this concept?”

Sonia, I’m white and I understand this (read my post below yours.) However, the actual spread between what the polls predicted for Clinton and Obama has to be more complicated than the possibility of a “Bradley Effect.”

Keep in mind that as far as percentages go, some of the polls were pretty accurate with respect to Obama.  The polls showed Hillary lower than final results and Edwards higher than final results.  In addition to Hillary’s surge, the other question
should be about Edward’s underperformance. 

I’m sure there will be comprehensive studies of what happened in New Hampshire because those who conduct polls cannot afford for the public to start to think of them as unreliable. 

However, I do believe that most of those who have this “nervousness” about voting for an African American are older people.

The key to Obama’s ultimate success is to turn out young and “youngish” voters, those who were not exposed to segregation and are far less likely to have issues with race.

Obama did extremely well in New Hampshire, by the way.  An outright victory would have been great, but let’s not lose sight of the fact that he is a frontrunner and he has a massive amount of support.

I grew up in the Jim Crow south during the civil rights era.  My generation became the “politically correct” generation and we did not learn to openly talk about race.  Yet, many of us grew up in homes and environments that were passively complicit and approving of segregation.  How can you not be influenced by your surroundings?

Yet, most of us didn’t want to believe we were racist like our parents and relatives.  So, we just simply didn’t face it.  We didn’t ask questions and we didn’t get answers.  We let the sleeping dogs lie.

That is too bad because, sometimes, when you confront your demons they go away.  You find out they weren’t really demons. 

So what is important to understand here is that we are not talking about racial equality.  Most Americans believe in that.  The question is, how deep are the residuals from childhood experiences of older Americans? 

What is at stake here are the private decisions that are being made about who we trust to lead us.  Can those of us who carry this racial baggage from so long ago stand in a voting booth and make a decision that is not influenced by race?

I am praying for a huge turnout of young voters to show us what is possible.

“Cognitive dissonance can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it....”

Golly gee willikers, Douglas !

You just described the classic conservative!
[And mainstreammedia]

I need to file that under “for future use” ...

Thanks!

Excellent Point. The “Bush Effect” has been enough to scare the shit out of any voter, of any race or gender.

In short, we’re ALL pretty desperate. So...NOT the “Bradly” Effect at all. More like the Shock Doctrine.

And, different people have different reactions to shock.

I think that when he goes down south Obama may be in for a surprise.

A “surprise” Driving Bear?

Hardly that. He’s been black longer than you’ve been white. I think he knows the deal in the South.

And, you should have paid more attention to South Carolina. Amazingly, black people actually get to vote too, at least in some areas of the south.

There is undoubtedly some small bit of truth in

While I agree that race is somewhat of a factor in this, I think there’s something else at play.  This is an election in which white women can do something rare--vote in a presidential primary for a candidate they can closely identify with, another white woman.  While their politics may lean towards Obama, the opportunity to nominate someone like themselves is very tempting.  If I felt I had to choose between the two, I would find it difficult myself.  Even though I can’t stand her politics, if she does win the nomination and go on to take the presidency, I’ll think “Well, this sucks, but at least we finally have a female president.”

While black voters may have a sense of pride in Obama, I think a lot of women feel the same way about Hillary.  I think in general, most people vote for the candidate they identify with (in whatever way that is) the most.  And for white women over 40 living in New Hampshire, I’m going to make a wild guess that they see themselves as more like Clinton than Obama.

Absurd. You float a concept without a shred of evidence to back it up, and then people take it seriously enough to argue about it.

Don’t count racism out as a factor.
I remember in the 1980’s when Jessie Jackson entered the democratic primary and here in Tennessee some lifelong dems who were proud of the fact they had never voted for a republican candidate in any local ,state , or federal election said and I quote “ I will vote for a republican before I vote for a ( N word)

I think that when he goes down south Obama may be in for a surprise.

By cyrena, January 9: “Thing is, it seems like you would figure it out by now. You do this same reaction, over and over and over again....”

So in reality, YOU prove yourself, cyrena. You don’t seem to have a clue, though. You mention my name three times and then you claim that your stuff isn’t directed at me?

This is called obsession, denial and refusal. But, if delusional disorder is rather difficult, try cognitive dissonance :- “a psychological term describing the uncomfortable tension that may result from having two conflicting thoughts (cognition) at the same time or engaging in behavior that conflicts with one’s beliefs...”

The underlying problem is that you are a shade of “black”, not me. I can sympathize but it is basically your issue. I don’t care for white racists and bigots for my own reasons. They are harmful to me, too.

Your problem, though, is your desperately attacking people who can’t be coerced into agreeing with you on all your perceived fantasies. You really do need to think more about YOU, cyrena, uhh.

Cognitive dissonance can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it....

Bill O’Rielly is looking for a staffer. You should help him out.

And no, I wasn’t dissing you Chalmers, or even stereotyping you. But, you always do think it’s about YOU, right. Anytime I say anything at all, it must be about YOU.

So in reality, YOU prove yourself. Thing is, it seems like you would figure it out by now. You do this same reaction, over and over and over again. You don’t seem to have a clue, to how it proves who you are. In short, you claim stuff that it isn’t directed at you.

And, tell me what it is that I need to get over? I’m confused.

By cyrena, January 9: “And Chalmers, why don’t you take some lithium.... Dread Chalmers. Some primitive fear, that white folks just can’t seem to get over.... Stereotypes die real hard Chalmers...”

Well, there you are, black woman disses white man (former friend) over Obama issue on Truthdig. Not sexist? Not racist?

Thanks for your profiling and stereotyping, cyrena...... the reality is that you really need to just get over it, uhh.

Will Durst knows the deal. And, it’s not even new.

And Chalmers, why don’t you take some lithium, and actually READ the thing.

“.....But its not bigotry so much as it is dread. Obloquy! “What?” Never mind. In the last six years, we’ve been taught to fear. Bang! Salivate...”

Dread Chalmers. Some primitive fear, that white folks just can’t seem to get over, even if they wanted to.

And no, it’s not JUST white women. Matter of fact, in the case of Obama, the bigotry itself is most likely to come from white MEN. Still, white women, (in places like New Hampshire) just have this well learned fear. Stereotypes die real hard Chalmers.
So, accept the reality and just get over it.

Life goes on, and there are 48 more states.

Nice try Hammo. We know better though. It’s always so amazing to hear the varied excuses that white folks will come up with. I’m pretty sure that a lot of you actually manage to convince yourself.

By Will Durst: It is shame. Of which I have little. If any. Okay. None. So here goes..... A tale of a race and of race.... We all know what happened...”

Talk about “a creeping worm”, Will Durst, your form of prejudice detritus known as political correctness is to shut people up with a fear that attacks your marrow in the dark so that no criticism of Obama is ever permitted on Truthdig lest it be interpreted as racism.

What the hell was the difference with women over 40 (white women) anyway? A guilt equation? Shame on wacky emotional leakage and vulnerability and moist eyes, eh? Positive human traits that a jaded hypocrite of a political comedian who has performed his last election stunt in 2004 couldn’t contemplate.

Yes, the USA is one of the more racist countries in the world. Just look at how the administration avidly collects statistical data segregated into “white, black and Hispanic”. Too bad if you’re Asian or M.Eastern or Pacific Islander or whatever, you’re just shoved in along with Hispanic because no-one else wants you, uhh.

How about another dynamic to consider. Not race, but geography. Some midwesterners and westerners do not like our government being the hands of easterners.

Easterners (New Hampshire voters) don’t mind an easterner (Clinton, who now represents eastern New York state as a senator).

So, Iowans felt comfortable voting for a guy from Illinois.

New Hampshire voters felt comfortable voting for a person representing eastern New York state.

Sure, there is a paradox. New Hampshire Republicans voted for a guy from Arizona.

Still, geography is in play here, in my humble opinion.

More on this in the article ...

“Democrats risk self-sabotage in presidential race ... again”

AmericanChronicle.com
November 5, 2007

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle. asp?articleID=42271