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 Surviving a CIA ‘Black Site’Posted on Dec 18, 2007By Amy Goodman The kidnap and torture program of the Bush administration, with its secret CIA “black site” prisons and “torture taxi” flights on private jets, saw a little light of day this week. I spoke to Mohamed Farag Ahmad Bashmilah in his first broadcast interview. Bashmilah was a victim of the CIA’s so-called extraordinary rendition program, in which people are grabbed from their homes, out of airports, off the streets, and are whisked away, far from the prying eyes of the U.S. Congress, the press, far from the reach of the courts, to countries where cruelty and torture are routine. Bashmilah is being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union and by the New York University School of Law International Human Rights Clinic in a lawsuit with four other victims of CIA rendition. They are suing not the U.S. government, not the CIA, but a company called Jeppesen Dataplan Inc., a subsidiary of Boeing Corp. A former Jeppesen employee, Sean Belcher, entered an affidavit in support of Bashmilah, reporting that Jeppesen executive Bob Overby bragged, “We do all of the extraordinary rendition flights,” further explaining to staff that he was speaking of “the torture flights,” and that they paid very well. Through a translator, over the phone from his home in Yemen, Bashmilah described how his ordeal began on Oct. 21, 2003, when he was arrested in Amman, Jordan: “It was approximately six days, but what I endured there is worth years. They wanted me to confess to having some connections to some individuals of al-Qaida. They tried several times to get me to confess, and every time I said no, I would get either a kick, a slap or a curse. Then they said that if I did not confess, they will bring my wife and rape her in front of me. And out of fear for what would happen to my family, I screamed and I fainted. After I came to, I told them that ‘please, don’t do anything to my family. I would cooperate with you in any way you want.’” After signing a false confession, he was told he was going to be released. In the process of being led through the Jordanian intelligence facility, he lifted his blindfold. “I saw another man who had a Western look. He was white and somewhat overweight and had dark glasses on. I realized then that they were probably handing me over to some other agency, because during the interrogations I had with the Jordanians, one of the threats was that if I did not confess, they will hand me over to American intelligence.” He was prepared for transit, stripped “completely naked. They started taking pictures from all directions. And they also started to beat me on my sides and also my feet. And then they put me in a position similar to the position of prostration in Muslim prayer, which is similar to the fetal position. And in that position, one of them inserted his finger in my anus very violently. I was in terrible pain, and I started to scream. When they started taking pictures, I could see that they were people who were masked. They were dressed in black from head to toe, and they were also wearing surgical gloves.” He says he was put in a diaper, had his eyes and ears covered, a bag was put over his head, and he had additional earphones put on his head to block noise. He was then flown to Kabul, Afghanistan, where he was held in solitary confinement for close to six months. He believed he was being held by Americans. “Some of the interrogators would come to me and interrogate me in the interrogation room, and they would tell me, ‘You should calm down and be comforted, because we’ll send all this information to Washington.’ And they would say that in Washington, they will determine whether my answers are truthful or not.” Although kept isolated from other prisoners, he managed to overhear some of them speculating that they were being held at Bagram Air Base. He went on to say that he was kept awake with blaring music and was held in shackles that were removed only for periodic interrogations. While Bashmilah was being interrogated and tortured, he was also visited by “psychiatrists.” “[T]he therapy mainly consisted of trying to look at my thoughts and trying to interpret them for me, and in addition to some tranquilizers.” Bashmilah attempted suicide three times, staged a hunger strike that was painfully ended with a feeding tube forced down his nose, and was denied access to a lawyer, to any human-rights group, to the International Committee of the Red Cross. In effect, he was disappeared. On May 5, 2005, he was transferred to a prison in Yemen, where he eventually gained access to his family. Amnesty International got involved. He was released in March 2006 with no charges relating to terrorism. Mohamed Bashmilah said there were cameras in his cells and interrogation rooms. Perhaps tapes were made of his ordeal. Let’s hope that the CIA doesn’t destroy these, too. Amy Goodman is the host of “Democracy Now!,” a daily international TV/radio news hour airing on 650 stations in North America. © 2007 Amy Goodman Distributed by King Features Syndicate TAGS:
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Honduras’ Top Court Refuses to Reinstate Zelaya
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Jump to Comments
By pd, January 13, 2008 at 12:47 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I have to take exception to the “put them back in office” remark - the 2000 and 2004 “elections” were not elections at all - as I believe has been sufficiently shown.
9/11 was staged by the same Right-wing cabal that overthrew the US Federal govt in 2000 by sabotaging the electoral process. This is the Fourth Reich. Wake up people, there’s only 11 months left. 2008 is not going to be an election either? Why would it be? Did someone go out and fix the vote fraud problem? Will they during the next 10 months?
The question we should all be asking ourselves is very simple and very obvious: Will Dubya leave office without staging another major terror event?
I betting not. Ymmv.
Final thought about impeachment and why it hasn’t happened yet: “Impeachment is not on the able” [Pelosi] ??!!?? WtF? Is there some reason the “new democratic majority” who are covering for executive branch shouldn’t go up against the wall right alongside Cheney, the Bush Family, Rove, Rumsfeld, Gingrich, et al? The only one [reason[] I can think of is that Treason is/was a hanging offense, iirc…
Report thisBy anthonybauwens, January 11, 2008 at 4:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
No wonder our soldiers are treated the same way we must stop this humiliating toture.Top officials with their fingers in some ones Anus as if its a kick?No wonder the people living in Pakistan in the high regions have no tongs but every rifle sold is accurate.Mine failures we can also see in Kenia. This War is not getting better if we start mingling in Pakitan we are done.
Report thisBy Kathleen Weber, January 7, 2008 at 12:09 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Caveat Emptor.
I don’t know how this was done, but I can’t change my password and have it stick.
The site has a complete set of Chernobyl photographs taken by a RETIRED KJB [?] what we would call AEC, officer and his daughter who does love her motorcycle.
Not really outraged by the maintinance of my site by people favoring free speech and sovereinty in the Ukraine. And the huffy assurances to the Russian People that the whole thing is a hoax are kind of funny.
The father involved is his own buerocracy—there are hundreds of screensaver and high resolution shots of the devastation wreaked in a 100 mile radius of Cherobyl, plus some news analysis from former evil empire press.
I was in the hospital with the consequences of years of HMO neglect of radiation linked health issues.
I was previously [1997] interned in Oregon and put in the humiliating position of having to be rescued by the CIA—the Killerologists et. al. who flew me to friends here.
I am living in an in law addition and writing as I can. The problem is obvious—who, how, why, and what else has been done to whom. Compared to my annoyance THE BIG PICTURE must be addressed—I was writing about the Falong Gong on the same site before my kidney burst.
My word to prove I’m human shows a non randomization—a few nmbers inserted into the name of the newborn grandson of a euro-moroccan. I got a Foxfire update notice—so I saved this and rebooted it after the update.
This may have allowed someone to interfere with the anti-spider device.
So we’re being bugged. Whadya expect,
it ain’t lke we’re living in a free country or something.
The consequences on women Vets and their babies is a too much neglected subject—some of these women
ar very young and stationed in countries or on ships where abortion is not possible,in addition, it takes 7 years or so for symptoms to show—the Doctors have to know what to look for in the blood.
I was born 23 hours directly after the flashblindness p-aper-clippers’ NTS shot an am very sick.
The insomniac kidney doctor who saved my life gave me a heavily mind altering
drug which he told my adoptive brother
was so I wouldn’t have “Bad Thoughts”
about him—ie. sue his practice.
The doctor who actually made the error
visited me for about ten days, read my chart, and helped me get some meds I needed for my M.E.. The older Doctor’s
Drug was of the type used formerly
on Soviet Mental Hospitals. A-LL6 M-IAP-OW7 knows alt about where, why,
and on whom thes drugs were developed, but they are looking for suvivors now.
The Hanoi Hilton with its horrors was a propoganda front. Some military counselors can get pre-releases of soon to be declassified documents if they are pertenant. If there were a way to
get better, I’d probabl be working with David Landau—Bensy will remember my
embarising rescue. If you can delete this for me after receiving it and send me a one line verification it will make it easier and safer for me to write.
Thoughtful sharing of it with those who are aware of these drugs and who wan to keep them out of the US. I would encourage.
I wrote a Clinton Era friend when heavily under the influence—writing syle is like fingerprints. I subsequently got the scoop. As journalists we should carefully lok at the cognitive functions of comrades i arms who are in the hospital.
Kathleen
Report thisBy karalla, January 4, 2008 at 10:56 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The election was stolen in 2000 and then again in 2004 with the e-voting machines. Unfortunately there is no Mr. Smith in Washinton?
Report thisBy davr, December 22, 2007 at 6:21 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Bush, Cheney, et. al. are responsible for the torture and murder of thousands of innocents.
These people have to pay for their crimes against humanity and their crimes against the United States of America.
Report thisBy Expat, December 21, 2007 at 7:42 am #
#121608 by cyrena on 12/20 at 8:30 pm
(1859 comments total)
“In short, ALL of the things that have brought us to this point have been our collective failure to understand WHY this event occurred, because of the mystery and lies surrounding it.”
Therein lies the problem. The reason why it happened? Most of us were sleep walking through our lives prior to 9/11 (still are). We were not aware of anything outside of our petty, greedy existence, especially our governments treatment of the Moslem populations of the Middle-East and most notably the Palestinians. A lack of knowledge of history/historic policies will doom one to a fatal ignorance. This pot had been boiling for many years before 9/11. As an aside, but germane to my point: I have lived outside of the U.S. for many years and the most common criticism of Americans are their lack of any knowledge of the world around them; this is not my observation but the observation I have heard from many foreigners.
Report thisMany of you, not me, are embroiled in a futile distraction that will be your undoing. You have fallen for the Kansas City Shuffle and for it to work there is always a dead body. You look there; I kill you here (so to speak). It will keep you forever distracted and they will have their way with you as they now do! Impotence is not out there; it is in ourselves.
By Jaki, December 21, 2007 at 4:12 am #
#121434 by JC on 12/20 at 12:02 am
(Unregistered commenter)
ummm does this count?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M
Thank you, JC, for putting this up, and Cyrena for referencing it. I had not seen “Loose Change,” though I have heard a lot about it and seen excerpts. I did see the interview with the filmmakers and those twits from Popular Mechanics by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! It was great to see that again at this site. You just have to listen to those PM guys’ language to know they are government shills.
It took a bit of effort for me to commit to sitting for an hour and a half to watch “Loose Change,” but I’m glad I did. I really am.
If every person in this country would also take the time to watch it very carefully, and maybe more than once, who knows what might happen? There’s that hundredth monkey phenomenon… I think it is the “patriotic duty” of anyone who really wants to know the truth to take the time and sit through the whole thing. Actually, I think it is our duty to the planet, to freedom, and to life.
I don’t think you can end up after watching this film concluding that we are left with only theories. The facts speak for themselves. This was an inside job.
And the motives were the most base of all possibilities in human existence: heartless greed and unmitigated power.
WE have been highjacked. Our country has been taken over by greedy unfeeling evil fascists. We can’t ignore this or relegate it to the past and “move on.”
As Cyrena has said, everything—from Bush’s spying on individual citizens, to the slaughter of innocent human beings in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the Imperial Presidency, to the looting of our Treasury—stems from this dastardly callous murderous act on September 11, 2001. Guiliani was involved, too. He set about destroying evidence before it could be examined. He should be prosecuted. Cheney and Bush should be impeached. Many others should be prosecuted, too. We need a Nuremberg Trial in the US.
We as citizens should demand this. Go to Democracy Now! (http://www.democracynow.org) and take a look at Ray McGovern’s statements about impeachment today (12/20) and compare them with the lily-livered wimpy statements of Democrat John Conyers standing next to him.
The Democrats are afraid of the press! Conyers actually said so. They are afraid the press will bad mouth them if they start impeachment proceedings.
Give me a break. The American People deserve better than this from our elected officials. The Constitution says those elected to head our government “SHALL” (not may) “BE IMPEACHED IF THEY COMMIT HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS”. The evidence of that is overwhelming, even if you don’t count 9/11.
Impeachment proceedings cannot help but also address the truth of 9/11. These are the two most important issues before our country.
Report thisBy cyrena, December 21, 2007 at 1:30 am #
#121455 by Expat
Here we go again; no matter what the topic, we come back to 9/11! This is not about 9/11 but our, OUR, response to that event.
Expat,
I think I get your point, but there is a MAJOR dichotomy in the reasoning her. And, while I dont want to confuse or undermine your major point, (our response) it really is EVERYTHING about 9/11, and in a way, our response but just as accurately our NON-response which is what makes it ALL about 9/11.
That means that we cannot examine our response to 9/11, WITHOUT considering it, and thats why it may be well meaning to try to put it in the past as some have suggested, but its naïve as hell to think that we can change ANYTHING about now, without understanding the REASONS why 9/11 even HAPPENED, and how our response is so very tied to that.
In short, ALL of the things that have brought us to this point have been our collective failure to understand WHY this event occurred, because of the mystery and lies surrounding it. Thats why our response, (or WRONG response, or NON-response) has led us down this path to total moral deprivation as a collective society. THATS why these things will continue to come up.
Every single thing that has happened to us, that has been so often noted, over and over again, INCLUDING the fact that we have become tortures, is a result of 9/11. To think that we can leave that to the historians, (which by now, the historians are surely studying) as something that has nothing to do with NOW, is to continue the same path of destruction, based on massive DENIAL.
So yes, it will ALWAYS come back to this, until we understand how and why 9/11 was able to occur. You cannot sweep it under the rug of history. The torture, the loss of habeas corpus, the spying, the aggressive attacks on the rest of the world, specifically Afghanistan, Iraq, and soon to be Iran, is ALL part of the same package that began with 9/11. The huge breakdown in our economy, the total ignorance of the American people to connect these dots, or even question them, are ALL connected to 9/11.
Yes, from 9/11 on, we began to violate ALL of the established rule of law, the domestic rule of law as guided by our own Constitution, as well as the International rule of law to which our Constitution abides us. Have we ALL determined to break these established norms, or has it been JUST our politicians? Well, we ALLOWED them to do it, and to CONTINUE doing it, long after 9/11. The Cabal may have stolen the 2000 election and even 2004 and as well, but did we impeach the bastards as soon as they started this path to destruction? NO! Instead, ENOUGH of us put them in office AGAIN 4 years later!! Have we impeached them since? NO! The congress just gave the same bastards $70billion MORE to continue the destruction, and the torture, and the rendition, and the black sites, and the rape and pillage of our nation and the rest of the world.
And, theyve been ALLOWED to do it, by using 9/11 as the justification for it all. So, is THAT the response or OUR response that youre talking about? If so, it pretty fucked-up, and I suspect you would agree.
No matter what, if you choose to believe the official tale, (and I cant understand how or why ANYONE could) then you STILL have to ask, WHY did they attack us on 9/11? (the alleged Islamic extremist terrorists). Or, if you accept the reality that our OWN terrorists in Washington attacked us, (or assisted in it) then you have to accept that it has been orchestrated to provide the justification for all that has come since, that WE have allowed.
If it has been our reaction to such an event, to ALLOW all of these atrocities, then you still have to go back and ask, WHY? And if our reaction has been to remain divided on the TRUTH of the events of 9/11, then well continue down this path. Cant build a structure on a rotten foundation and expect it to hold. Cant sweep the rot under the rug either.
Report thisBy musings, December 20, 2007 at 10:00 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I’m kind of wondering about the education people have received which allows them to equivocate (speak “on the one hand, but also on the other hand”) about 9/11. After physical evidence proves you cannot make cellphone calls from planes and you watch a host of controlled demolitions, along with the BBC blooper which says the WTC-7 has come down before it has (and then scrambling occurs, as well as the BBC’s temporary loss of this footage)—well, were you all taught that “A is not A” or something? What kind of chem labs have you taken in which you fully understand about the physical properties of water (polar) versus oil (nonpolar). I mean they have this society by the short hairs—because our service economy of couch potatoes fails to understand that once you have eliminated an alleged fact by impossibility, it is gone. The government’s case for 9/11 has sunk, long ago. But it doesn’t matter, because we are trying to get along with drunken daddy as he continues along that mountain road. We are praying and supplicating, when we should be taking away the keys.
Do we deserve the founders of this nation, the rebels against British imperialism? Have we lost all sense of reality? These torture sessions are the fruit of an authoritarian system, one which will only get worse. How do we pull the plug on it, take away the keys? It will not be easy. We have been had. We were the appetizer course, and now they are on to the meat. But something may stop them before they get to the dessert. Others have our “daddy’s” number, if we do not.
Report thisBy Jon, December 20, 2007 at 2:56 pm #
In response to ted tyson, I am not saying that what has been put foward about 9/11 is not true(information in loose change was compelling) or that I am opposed to learning more about it.
However, what frustrates me sometimes is that no matter what article is up for discussion on this or other sites, the dominate theme more often than not seems to come back to theories about 9/11.
As Cyrena points out, there is apparently no hard evidence for whatever reason so we are left rightly or wrongly with, as I posted earlier, theories.
As far as staying on topic, I commented in my earlier post in paragraghs two and four on the topic.
I happened to be very interested in what Amy is dealing with in this article which has come from her show of the last couple of days. It is more than anything you will find in the main stream media/infotainment.
I value and support what Amy Goodman offers and I am glad she is out there trying to get to the truth that others seem unwilling or unable to obtain.
It is not up to me to decide what topics Amy Goodman deals with on her show, she does pretty well bringing out compelling and important information on a wide range of topics.
Report thisBy WSmart, December 20, 2007 at 1:56 pm #
No, I think 9/11 is on topic here since Amy has been saying over and over that there is no connection between Iraq and 9/11, and I’m not going to say I know anything but how do you responsibly say anything that even remotely suggests exactly what she’s been saying, that there is no connnection? She might not be getting paid for it, but that’s a bit of a technicality because I can only imagine the caca roaches preen to hear those words. There were billions of dollars at stake, not to mention Bush’s ‘way of life’ or depravity or cowardness, his way of cutting and running on humanity. I think the connection between Iraq and 9/11 is in Washington, don’t look now folks but the caca roaches have made it into the White House.
To the idea that we have to get it right this time, you’re out of your mind, buying into the lies that the caca roaches want you to believe. Life is not that critical, it never has been and it never will be. You put freedom first and that’s the heart of love, after that, don’t worry about it because love never forgets and when the truth comes out and the tears start falling they’re gonig to fall hard and they won’t miss their mark. I got your back sweet heart.
Torture is a form of abuse, like spousal abuse, child abuse, so called prejudicial abuse or police abuse. It’s the white lightning of abuse, the good stuff, APA certified, institutionalized, good ole’ jingo-patriotic, neo-liberal, neo-conservative, neo-human abuse. The problem has to do with the nature of men and women and most especially the denial of that nature, the state of denial that Bush confuses with America. Men use alcohol to live in denial and such men turn their backs on humanity, on their fellow men and on everything; really, for the sake of convenience. They say things like, “If you can’t beat em’, join em’.”, and, “If it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander.”. The key to putting an end to this moronic, small minded, nonsense and selfishness is to start talking about the alcohol issue. We need to innoculate the conscience of men, educate the conscience of men, and I’d like to believe we can enlist the help of women in that effort. Clearly, to my mind, women generally have some huge reservations about the human commitment to freedom, which to me, freedom, is the very heart of love. I think we need to get past that, and you know Bob Marley had the right of it when he said first take care of head. We get into trouble when we try and deny women their right to choose and be free. We men need to let it be, to let it go, and do the best we can, to master our own tyranical nature and hope for the best where women are concerned. We gotta’ help each other as much as we can. In a word, believe.
That reminds me, Democracy Now! has a $2000 dollar donation option that includes dinner with Amy; I wonder if that’s at a restaurant of my choice? Maybe we could do a Democracy Now! special from Amsterdam! The airlines probably pay Amy to fly, for all the good she does in promoting air travel. That would be so cool, if that ever happens; look for me on the program-I’ll be the guy shooting milk from his nose. Definatly, no questions asked, my guest would be Yoko Ono, but only if she agrees not to sing that one song she does because that totally freaks me out, the one with all the weird noises. Actually, I’d have to bring Mike Gravel too, but he can’t bring those two guys he spends Christmas with because those guys are big time creapy. And, Amy, his video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S2zkh6ZOGE , is more accurately called Power to the people vs Give peace a chance, fyi. You can use it but don’t abuse it.
Live responsibly and please don’t drink and breathe.
Report thisBy Expat, December 20, 2007 at 10:26 am #
#121461 by John Borowski on 12/20 at 4:42 am
(Unregistered commenter)
Yes, my greatest fears realized; you are correct. I am about to join a monastery.
Report thisBy Expat, December 20, 2007 at 10:20 am #
Surviving a CIA Black Site
All of this conspiracy stuff is not different than JFKs assassination. I have no idea if there was a conspiracy or not. At this point in time; to obsess on this stuff stops us from the important work that needs to be done NOW. Focus on now; let the historians worry about the rest. Now is when we will live or die, live free or die, live free or in fear. The election is coming now; if we dont get it right this time; there will be no second chance. Ignore anyone or anything that is not germane to the issues at hand. 9/11 is not the point at this time! Nothing will be served by staying there in the past ..go forward to now!!!
Report thisBy John Borowski, December 20, 2007 at 9:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Expat #121455 in my opinion there is only about twenty five percent of intelligent, mature people of good character in this world. That group is led around by their noses by the ocean of ignorance that represent seventy five percent of the people in this world. This phenomenon has always cursed us and always will. The evils are aware of this ocean of ignorance and whether it is religion, politics, or any other evil they exploit it to fill their pockets with wealth and power. Their game plan is based on the concept that nothing matters except who dies with the most toys. One can see this ocean of ignorance’s muscle power on TV. Only the most puerile, inane programs, infantile commercials, or violent programs are successful. If we had seventy five percent of intelligent people in this country the Republicans (Aka Conservatives right wingers) would have been extinct a long time ago.
Report thisBy Expat, December 20, 2007 at 8:35 am #
Surviving a CIA Black Site
Surviving a CIA Black Site
Report thisHere we go again; no matter what the topic, we come back to 9/11! This is not about 9/11 but our, OUR, response to that event. The years that have passed since then are defining who we have become as a people: What we are as a people and how we deal with a radically changing world. By all measure we have dishonored all of the soldiers who fought and died for what; so that we can torture, kidnap, lie, murder, engage in rendition, suspend habeas corpus, attack, preemptively other countries based on proven lies and then justify all of this in the name of democracy and freedom? So the point is that we can now claim supremacy as the pre-eminent fascist/despot power in the world? This is sick; by any measure, this is sick and twisted. This is so far down the bottom looks like up to me.
By cyrena, December 20, 2007 at 6:35 am #
#121434 by JC
JC,
ABSOLUTELY it DOES count!!
Good for Amy!! Might I add that I had not previously seen this portion of the the loose change film, (Ive actually seen only a few scattered pieces of it here and there).
And, I had ALL of the same questions as the Loose change guys addressed here, (plus jillions more that Im sure theyve covered). But ironically, all of MY questions, (from day one until now) havent really been centered on the conspiracy, but RATHER (having been employed by the industry for more years than I like to remember) on the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE!!
And, thats what the popular mechanics guys CLAIMED they were focused on. EXCEPT, all of the stuff they claimed as physical evidence, has NEVER BEEN SEEN BY THE PUBLIC, OR THE 9/11 COMMISSION. (if they did, they didnt put it in the report).
They CLAIM they came up with a voice recorder from UA flight 93, and I vaguely remember that, YEARS after the fact. They also claim to have come up with one from AA flight 77, (the Pentagon) well, thats news to me. Why didnt they mention that to anybody else? Has anybody else heard it? NOPE.
In short, the popular mechanics guys were lying and obfuscating, (standard for the past several years) and anybody who has any knowledge of the stuff would know it. Such as the cell phone thing. Cell phones didnt work on airplanes back then. I KNOW THAT!! They may now, but not THEN.
As for the airphones, they too were highly unreliable, actually making connections about 50% of the time, maybe less. And, even if they DID, it took FOREVER, and there was no way to do it without a credit card. So, if any of the airphone conversations actually did make it, why wasnt THAT information released to the public, or the Commission?
Everything they claim was there, HAS NEVER BEEN VERIFIED or released to the public.
Bottom line even if one doesnt buy into ANY of the likely conspiracies, there is STILL NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. ZIP. A voice recorder 2 or 3 years after the fact doesnt cut it.
So, I STILL dont know what happened to those flights, I only know that there is NO physical evidence that they ever crashed in Shanksville, or at the Pentagon, NOR was there ever ANY evidence of an emergency response at either location. When airplanes crash, the scene is FLOODED with rescue workers and vehicles. (unfortunately, Ive seen enough of them). At the Pentagon, we saw on yellow fire truck, and two guys from FEMA. THATS IT!! Nothing on the news, like for hours and hours, such as there has always been in the case of any other air disaster, such as there was at the WTC.
NOTHING at the Pentagon, or in Shanksville.
Thanks for sharing. Amy is on top of it.
Report thisBy Tree, December 20, 2007 at 6:19 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
My heart-felt apology to all the people my government has tortured since September 11, and to those tortured before. It is amazing that Perkins who wrote Confessions of an Economic Hitman is still alive, and good luck to Amy Goodman, and to all of us truthtellers. We need it!
Report thisBy JC, December 20, 2007 at 5:02 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
ummm… does this count?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M
Report thisBy cyrena, December 20, 2007 at 3:42 am #
#121203 by Freedomfinder on 12/19 at 4:38 am
(27 comments total)
cyrena:
I could not agree with you more!
But you see Amy herself has refused any discussion at all on her program about 911.She has stuck with the original narrative.She has been asked several times by persons of all stripes to envite a panel to have an open debate on the subject and she has avoided to even reply!
Why Amy why?
So, freedomfinder,
Why do you think this is, that Amy has avoided anything about 9/11 other than the original narrative? I mean, I can think of the obvious, which would pose threats to her, and I cant blame her for that. Still, by now, it would seem like she may have been willing to consider at least some of the experts that have been talking since the beginning, like David Griffin. Im only just noticing from the comments offered here by several others, that he has yet another book, which I was unaware of until now, (guess Ive been out of the loop) so Ill have to get it and take a look, to see what may or may not be new.
Because, that COULD be another reason why Amy Goodman hasnt dealt with it yet. Specifically, theres simply no physical evidence that Im aware of, that hasnt been kept hidden, or most likely destroyed. Most of the best of it was blown up at the original crime scene, the WTC. No airplanes left to examine or investigate through the routine/standard process by which all other air disasters would be investigated.
Same with the airplane that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon, as well as the one that allegedly crashed in a field in Shanksville, PA, and supposedly spread debris over what, some 100 or more miles? Since when could such a thing happen?
Pentagon? Same thing. No signs an airplane ever crashed there. Not a Boeing 757 or any other kind of commercial passenger jet. The the film from the cameras around the Pentagon that might have got the photos of it were all immediately snatched, and theres just not a thing left, (that any of US know about) to verify what really happened.
I remember that another poster (I think Robert, since hes an ace at finding stuff) found something on line to direct us to some ATC tapes that were DESTROYED as well. So, in all honesty, that may be why Amy hasnt jumped into this. I mean, why set oneself up for danger, (possible rendition and torture) if you dont really have any physical proof of anything, (because its all destroyed or missing) and wouldnt know (trust) who to present it to, even if you did? Of course by now, we know she could at least talk to David Griffen and his team.
Still, if shes basically going with the original narrative, it could just be that shes dismissed anything else as conspiracy theorists, and up to now, the perpetrators and their network of trolls and disinformation agents, would crucify her, at which point shed lose her voice (and credibility) entirely, just because thats what they do so well.
So, those are just some thoughts. Im gonna check out the new work by Griffen, (which may not even be new the Debunking 9/11 Debunkers. Thanks for the tips guys.
Report thisBy ted tyson, December 20, 2007 at 2:17 am #
jon—
Report thisalso, “debunking 9/11 debunking” IS on topic, as these renditions are in reponse to the alleged events of september 11th, 2001. and just how was YOUR post(or expat’s for that matter) on topic? i think it’s time for you guys to do some more homework, don’t you?
By ted tyson, December 20, 2007 at 2:06 am #
jon—
Report thisit’s not about being sophisticated, and our “beliefs” as to what the government might or might not be able to do in a given situation are secondary to evidence. secretary of transportation minetta has testified that vice-president cheney was given periodic updates in the white house bunker as flight 77 approached the pentagon. cheney says he wasn’t in the bunker at the time, but minetta will verify that the vice-president is lying about this. that’s obstructing an investigation and obstruction of justice. start with that. explain why our vice-president would lie to us about such a basic but vital detail. why lie? ponder that question while you read david ray griffin’s book, “debunking 9/11 debunking.” what have you got to lose?
By Jon, December 20, 2007 at 12:14 am #
The truth behind what actually happened on 9/11 is important, but I do not believe the government is competent enough to keep any real evidence about a conspiracy to have leaked out by now. I saw loose change and have read different things about it.
I may not be as sophisticated as some of you out there, and I am sure you can point that out to me, but Amy is dealing with people that are pointing out facts on the ground with regard to the recent Blackwater incidents and people that were actually victims of extrordinary rendition.
I am sure a panel discussion about 9/11 conspiracy theories would make for some interesting discussion. However, it would still be speculation and ultimately wheel spinning.
Thank you, Amy Goodman, for your important ongoing work of getting credible people on your show to get to the truth and the heart of matters that are important to all of us today.
I agree with Expat that we should at least make an attempt to stay on topic.
Report thisBy ted tyson, December 19, 2007 at 11:44 pm #
expat—
Report thissince you are omniscient about all of our thoughts and feelings, post with your real name and respond to david ray griffin’s book “debunking 9/11 debunking”. he lays out an argument that will connect many dots for you and help you focus your energy.
By Enemy of State, December 19, 2007 at 11:24 pm #
ThomasBillis
“I say if you resort to these measures in a war that will only end when you capture hearts and minds you are looking at perpetual war.”
I think that is the idea. Perpetual war. Perpetual security moms voting for militarists. Perpetual profits for military/security corporations. Win win win situation.
Report thisBy PatrickHenry, December 19, 2007 at 11:05 pm #
I wonder if they threaten the TV news anchors and so called investigative journalists with this if they broadcast the the real news.
How long will it be before this becomes a reality in America?
Report thisBy Don Stivers, December 19, 2007 at 10:16 pm #
And our Congress STILL ignores this. And how does our President think that he can get away with torture because it is not done on our soil. No one can do this without punishment! Our country is responsible for the torture and murder of innocents.
Our leaders make me want to throw up. To let this go on for longer than it took to beat two war machines (Japan and Germany) during WWII truly amazes.
Report thisBy Thomas Billis, December 19, 2007 at 12:49 pm #
Someone is going to write on this site that you people just do not understand how war is and this stuff is necessary to defend the nation.I say if you become the enemy what are you fighting for.I say previous generations fought the Nazi’s and the Japanese without becoming them and won.I say if you resort to these measures in a war that will only end when you capture hearts and minds you are looking at perpetual war.So to my way of thinking these measures are counter productive not only from a human rights standpoint but from a not winning our objective standpoint.I will finish with it is always the guys who have never been in battle tell you how to conduct a war.
Report thisBy lib in texas, December 19, 2007 at 12:39 pm #
Well, after todays fire in the Eisenhower building housing, home land security, white house lawyers, vice president cheney, I’m sure NO RECORDS remain. They either said the hell with it we’ll just burn it or their shredding machines over heated !!!
Report thisBy lib in texas, December 19, 2007 at 12:36 pm #
Well, after todays fire in the Eisenhower building housing, home land security, white house lawyers, vice president cheney, I’m sure NO RECORDS remain. They either said they hell with it we’ll just burn it or their shredding machines over heated !!!
Report thisBy Expat, December 19, 2007 at 10:27 am #
Surviving a CIA Black Site
Report thisWell, there it is. This is straight out of Kafka for Christs sake, how can it get worse? The truth outs little by little as it must. Its long past time to have a come to Jesus meeting. Another poster said it far better than I; this site, truthdig, is a comfortable, familiar place for us to gather and rail, pontificate, preach, and most importantly, make us feel as though we are really doing something. We are preaching to the choir, selling refrigerators to the Eskimos, or bringing coal to Newcastle; take your pick.
Step back and take a look, a long look at the last 7 years of Bush/Cheney. Step back and take a look at this site, some posters act like they own the site (you know who) and others throw veiled and not so veiled racial/religious slurs. We post off topic to get in our current invested topic, the hell with relevance. We have the attention span of a gnat. This site jerks us from one new article to another like the shysters they are. Do you think Scheer is an honest broker? He has a website to sell and gather awards for his truthdigging, LOL. There is no semblance of unity or coherent direction. There are no solutions forthcoming; there is rarely anything constructive. Tell me what has changed; here or there? Were a pathetic lot who deserve our end. If the mainstream flatters you beware, something is wrong!
Kudos to Amy Goodman.
By Freedomfinder, December 19, 2007 at 9:38 am #
cyrena:
Report thisI could not agree with you more!
But you see Amy herself has refused any discussion at all on her program about 911.She has stuck with the original narrative.She has been asked several times by persons of all stripes to envite a panel to have an open debate on the subject and she has avoided to even reply!
Why Amy why?
A great American said “Silence is betrayal”
—Martin Luther King—
By cyrena, December 19, 2007 at 7:19 am #
Here’s the Jeppesen/Boeing connection again. Try as I might, I simply cannot ignore the connection to the 4 aircrafts on 9/11, considering ALL that it has prompted, including all of this torture and rendition.
And now that I’m thoroughly freaked out (AGAIN - having studied this all for so long before), I’ll just say thanks again Amy, for bringing this to light.
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