By libertyferall, January 8: “We could have a world without war, if we want it…. Yesterday in my English class, we had a most interesting discussion…”

An interesting post for a change! Where are you, if I may ask, libertyferall? Teaching English in China - or elsewhere?

I’m sure they well know what China could do with its one million soldier military if war is over. For a start, ther isn’t a war. That is something that only exists in the minds of Americans and their ignorant Anglo allies.

As you say, in the USA, people are indeed “cynical (about) coping with the prospect of utter destruction of the world and (their) future”. It is part of the negative delusional state which now affects all Anglo countries and they are inexorably failing to keep up with the rest of the world as a result.

The real issues for the rest of the world are climate change, population explosion and their economic reality. War is NOT the main issue at all. The “war on terror” is just the hegemonic USA continuing to make a nuisance of itself with gunboat diplomacy as they have since the 1800’s.

For China with 14 countries on its borders and a couple more offshore, a standing army is a necessity that the USA doesn’t understand and has never really had experience of. It won’t come to an end, though, because it provides employment and is an emergency service in times of flood and similar natural disasters.

By comparison, the USA would rather co-opt is National Guard to fight an illusory oil war overseas than trade normally or provide assistance to its own citizens during and after hurricanes and tornados. The truth now is that America can no longer afford to pay its way and is stamping its military foot. Who is going backwards?

Why permit these warmongerers to take the U.S. into war in Iran?  We could have a world without war, if we want it.  Join the growing impeachment movement.  Oust these guys from office.  Don’t give them a chance to start a war in Iran.

Yesterday in my English class, we had a most interesting discussion of what China could do with its one million soldier military if war is over.  I would like to see that discussion start to happen in the U.S. as well.  My students got all dreamy-eyed as they started to think about what their world would be like if war was truly over.

I spoke to my son in the U.S., who sounded quite depressed as he said everyone is talking about the Apocalypse happening.  He said it could be interesting in his most cynical way of coping with the prospect of utter destruction of the world and his future.

What does it take for people in the U.S. to realize we don’t have to go in this direction?  The future is ours.  We just have to take hold of it.

Here is another interesting news story for y’all to read. It will make you mad but its worth the read.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/SendMail.aspx?pri nt=print&type=0&item=124580

I Have discovered some interesting reading on Iran state news site.

Here is a link to the story
Its worth the read

http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-203/07121329 56130210.htm

What could Iran being doing with PLUTOIUN???

South Africa: Talks on Nuclear Contamination at College End

BuaNews (Tshwane)

13 December 2007
Posted to the web 13 December 2007

Tehran

Iran and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) ended their talks Wednesday, on the source of nuclear contamination in a technical college in Tehran.

According to IRNA’s political reporter, the talks started on Monday in the venue of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organisation, but officials have given no news yet about the results of the talks.

In the past, IAEA usually announced the results of such talks.

Technical talks on the source of contamination is the third part of an agreement reached between Iran and IAEA on August 21, two weeks later than the closure of the issues of P1 and P2 Centrifuges and the document on metallic uranium.

IAEA Chief Muhammad al Baradei in his latest report to the Agency’s Governing Council wrote that IAEA had presented written questions to Iran on the source of uranium contamination detected in the equipment in a technical college in Tehran.

The Agency had also asked Iran to provide availability to certain individuals, equipment and places.

In 2003, IAEA announced that it had detected cases of high contamination in Iran but Tehran said that its source was the imported equipment and not Iran’s nuclear activities.

IAEA confirmed Iran’s claim in 2005 and announced that the source of contamination was imported equipment.
————————& #8212;———————R 12;———————
I guess we can all relax now.

#119977 by Non Credo on 12/13: “Driving Bear demonstrates very nicely the tendency of pompous asses to refer to themselves in the third person….”

Thus, three personalities??? I wonder which one he is today…........

#119849 by driving bear

No playbooks for me Driving Bear, and I really don’t have the time or energy to attack any messengers. (never thought it was a good idea anyway…messengers are important, but there’s no doubt that we should always question the message).

Congrats on your biochem knowledge. It’s helpful these days.

Still, I think we’ve already determined that the Iranians are developing a civilian energy program, under the careful eyes of the IAEA, and that they’ve been following the established protocol for all of it. Personally I (along with MULTIPLE OTHER actual EXPERTS) don’t believe that Iran is developing a bomb, so that would certainly be a ‘message’ worth attacking.

But, here again, that’s already been accomplished by those far more knowledgably than I in these matters. (and obviously far more knowledgeable that YOU).

The AP article that you posted is immediately recognizable as phony, just like all similar ones, and especially to anybody who does any serious research. Anything that doesn’t have an author’s name attached to it rarely gets my notice, UNLESS it provides additional corroboration/verification or deniability to something that DOES have a traceable source.

So, if the IAEA decides that there was this ‘thing’ that you describe at a University in Tehran, I might think it something worth considering, and then again, maybe not. I say ‘maybe not’ because you can find the VERY SAME THING in at least 3 hospitals that come immediately to mind, in their nuclear medicine units. (always located at the basement levels of the hospitals).

So, you see, I just don’t ‘do’ innuendo, and propaganda intended to create chaos and hysteria based on nothing. If YOU are that worried about it, maybe you should just jet over to Iran and check it out. I’m just not.

reply to #119643 by cyrena on 12/12 at 4:16 am

First off I see that you too are following the liberal playbook that states if you cannot refute the message attack the messenger.

By the way driving bear received his masters in biochemistry in 1994 and now teaches undergrad classes at a small university in Tennessee.

From my training and experience I know of no repeat No legit reason for a university to have weapons grade Uranium.  In fact its unlikely for a university to have even enriched uranium. So it looks like Iran is making the bomb.

Jews in Europe were declared some how as demon and after suffering at the hands of German extremist forces; the massacre and awful extermination faced by Jews in Europe; few were lucky enough to escape the tyranny. These fewer foresaw a refuge (as we all human do)—in their religion. Palestine was lying unguarded after World War II (placed under British for administration).These Jews were allowed to avail a shelter and protection there, on humanitarian grounds. They started trickling in numbers. This ‘movement of Jews’ was picked up by the retreating colonial Empires think tanks and they chalked out a scheme of ‘a come back’ in their vacated lands and thus with the vested interests creation of Israel in Palestine was created.

The entire Middle East including the Jews of Israel are the victims of above scheme. Since the very inception of Israel; it is being used as a launching pad of western policies to wade through the ways in Middle East and avail a return of the western forces to oil rich Arab peninsula. Arabs have been warning Israel which has often been turning into skirmishes with Israel. This scenario further developed and huge sums and technology support was pelted, into Israel in the name of ‘Israel’s security’. US alone pays about 8 billions dollars in the name of Israel security. Israel has since been armed to its teeth including its nuclear war heads. Israel Nuclear programme at Dimona nuclear proliferation plant in Negev Desert was started in 1952 with the help of France. As per the latest reports; Israel has developed (as per Israel production rate estimates) some 200 nuclear war heads along with their delivery vehicles, Jericho-1 and Jericho-2 missiles. Dimona is served by a near by Military air base at Niveta AB and Uranium geochemistry and fission-track mapping of phosphorites facilities at Zefa field, Zefa. But US Defence Intelligence reports estimate at 65 to 80 war heads.

Ever since that Israel has opted to act as an active agent…as US proxy; the entire Middle East is in turmoil. Where as lives of thousands of Arabs as well Israelites have perished; it has also resulted into formal occupation of Arab lands. Mega-mega US bases in Iraq are being turned into staging ground to sabotage the other countries in the North. After consolidating their position in Arab Lands; US is going to be busy in securing their foot prints in energy rich Central Asia.

At this stage, Iran happens to be a hard nut. To deal with Iran as well as another hard nut Pakistan sitting with 70 to 80 Nuclear war heads in their kitty; it is quite perceivable that to under take further advances; love bond Israel will be brought forward to the alter for sacrifice. As I said at other place; the next 9/11 type; a self inflicting wound will be made to happen in Tel-Aviv (90% chances are predicted by Gurus in the field) to generate a pretext and launch a full fledge attack to subjugate Iran and install a regime of US choice in Iran.

That is why the US along with other European beneficiaries are bent upon denying and restricting any sort of technological advancement in the field of defence arsenals by Iran or any other Arab country; just to avail a free run when ever they decided to go in.

#119467 by driving bear

• 
“….Driving bear is a university teacher and knows most universities don’t use weapons grade as a “teaching aid.”….”

OMIGOD-OMIGOD-OMIGOD-OMIGOD!!!

Now THIS is a BOMB!!! Driving Bear…A UNIVERSITY teacher? (curious, at the university level, these people are generally referred to as Professors, or lectures or even instructors)  I can’t remember EVER hearing a university student or Professor refer to their Professors or colleagues as ‘teachers’. And, if I remember correctly, Driving Bear previously gave us his age as 36 years old. This would make him sort of like Professor Epps on the TV series Num3ers. And, Driving Bear’s posts just somehow don’t ‘read’ like that of a university professor/instructor/teacher.

So, I guess now that I’ve had a chance to recover from the bombshell, (I always start out simply believing what folks say at face value) I’ll just go ahead and state the obvious. Driving Bear is LYING AGAIN!! (just like the phony article about the alleged weapons grade uranium at the REAL university in Tehran, and most everything else he posts here.)

So, relax everybody. You don’t have to go rushing off to snatch your kid out of school for fear that they actually have a ‘teacher’ the likes of Driving Bear. Whew!!

reply to #119519 by Non Credo on 12/11 at 2:58 pm

I see I have force you to revert to the old liberal playbook that states when you can’t counter the message attack the messenger. Just admit you are wrong and don’t further embarrass yourself.

re: #119467 by driving bear

How about the weapons grade plutonium in Israel.  Why can’t the IAEA inspect Israels facilities like they inspected Irans.

It is exactly that unfairness which unites the world against the U.S.

reply to #119481 by Non Credo on 12/11 at 10:43 am

I clipped the report for you to read and as AP states the report was confirmed by IRNA Iran’s state news dept. and no report on quantity of uranium but by the fact the IAEA and Iran are set to discuss this matter implies that it was not just a very small amount of weapons grade material
 
the AP story
   

Iranian and UN nuclear officials began a new round of talks here on Monday, this time to probe the source of weapons-grade uranium that was found at Teheran’s university, the official IRNA news agency reported.

It was not clear from the report how or when the weapons-grade uranium was discovered at the Technology faculty of the state university.

The meeting between the International Atomic Energy Agency delegation and its Iranian hosts comes in the wake of a surprising US intelligence report last week that concluded Iran had stopped its nuclear weapons program in late 2003 and had not resumed it since.

JPost.com » Iran » Article

Dec 10, 2007 20:02
Iran, IAEA start talks on weapons-grade uranium found at university
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
TEHERAN, Iran

I don’t know if any one here saw it but last night AP reported that weapons repeat weapons grade uranium was discovered at a university in Iran.
Driving bear is a university teacher and knows most universities don’t use weapons grade as a “teaching aid.”

what could be the reason for a university to need weapons grade uranium? A BOMB MAYBE.

A strong Isreal has been good for the Middle East.  I mean, the Egyptians have been very quiet since they got their asses handed to them, haven’t they?
The US created the train wreck single handedly.

#119373 by 1dree5

•  Another blast from the past i must put in coz people are as usual “Zionistically forgetting”
The blueprints that Dr Khan passed to the Iranians were turned in by them to the UN with a complaint, that was reported way back then, dont know what facts been distorted to by now.
1dree5,

I had to chuckle at your wording. “Zionistically forgetting” eh?

Anyway, you are one smartie, because this IS an important blast from the past, that many either never knew, or are perfectly happy to distort. But, I said that to say that I DO remember this, and I actually have it stored somewhere on this computer…left over from earlier research into the whole history of the thing. I think I mentioned before that the whole incident was as underhanded as the exiled Iraqi’s (Ahmed Chalabi) connection was to the bush whitehouse, and the alleged WMD that Saddam allegedly had. The circumstances with Iran, and the nuclear secrets from Dr. Kahn, were very similar. I can’t remember the name now, of the exiled Iranian opposition people who set it up, but it was fishy, even way back then. So, when time permits, I’ll check it out.

Meantime, I came across this article today, that explains and introduces the man who wrote the latest NIE report. So, while we’re calling on Congress to stop a next war, it would appear that this fellow and his small staff, have been the real heros, at least in delaying it, or putting it out there early enough to let everybody know (before cheney attacks) that they’re lying. I don’t know if (in the end) it would have helped to know that they were lying about Iraq, especially since there were enough of us that DID know they were lying, including Joe Wilson, and we see what happened to him AND his CIA wife, when he tried to put the word out. Whack, Whack. It’s happened to more than a few, who have tried to expose the liars in the ‘before the danger could strike’ time frame.

So, this guy deserves some heartfelt gratitude from all of us. I don’t think that much matters to him, since professionals and true patriots don’t do this work for personal recognition. Still, I’m definitely ready to at least send them a thank you card. If nothing else, it might delay what was a near certain attack in the immediate future. Now, if we could just make sure that CONGRESS is aware of this, it would be helpful.

Intelligence Expert Who Rewrote Book on Iran
  By Ewen MacAskill
  The Guardian UK

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/120807B.shtml

And, just for old times sake, here’s an excellent piece from our very own Walter Cronkite, in conjunction with a fellow, David Krieger that I know from the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, but may not be as recognizable a name to some. Now they’re older fellows, so far more ‘politically correct’ than I would be, in writing. Still, they make the case for the horror that is the on-going aggression against the people of Iraq.

Our Troops Must Leave Iraq
  By Walter Cronkite and David Krieger
  CommonDreams.org

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/120407B.shtml

Indonesia…East Timor…Vietnam…Cambodia…the Balkans…

You’ve got to be kidding me.  When the democrats had huge majorities in congress they did not even try to stop the invasions of Granada, Panama, Somalia…. nor did they manage any more than public hand wringing over Reagan’s illegal activities in Central America.  Get a clue.

What is laughable is the idea that Bush and Cheney need any goading from Isreal or any other Middle Eastern state to invade any country on earth.  The main reason the Isralis wanted the bomb was because they didn’t trust the US to defend them against the Arab states, probably with good reason.  The US has a terrible record of switching sides, like with Iraq for instance.

“However, that still does not address the constant complaints by Howard, that Iran has ‘threatened’ Israel over and over and over again.”

Threats are a two-way street. I have heard the U.S. and Israel constantly threatening Iran for years and years. Ahmedinejad has barely been muttering in his beard by comparison.

Re #119260 by cyrena on 12/10 at 11:20 am

It’s hardly worth mentioning the outrageous double standard that Iran, a signatory to the NPT and in full compliance with it is threatened by the U.S. and Israel for its nonexistent nuclear weapons program, while Israel itself is not a signatory to the NPT, has hundreds of nuclear weapons and a leadership crazy enough to use them.

I can’t remember the last time Iran attacked anybody. Was it during the reign of Cyrus the Great?

•  #119166 by Tony Wicher on 12/09 at 10:43 pm
Re #119034 by cyrena on 12/09 at 1:29 am
I would make some sense to me if Israel regarded as Iran’s biggest threat its support for Hezbollah who are helping Palestinians and Lebanese. The nuclear threat is pure BS.
Tony,
Thanks for the response. It does jive with my own, based on the fact that Iran, (in this case speaking through Ahmadinejad) has always held the position that favors justice for the Palestinians in that 60-year old conflict. It is from their position that favors the Palestinians that the whole misinterpretation of his Holocaust statement derived. (amazing how interpretations can be made to suit a particular agenda)

In that case, he’s been accused of being a Holocaust ‘denier’ when in fact he never said that. Rather he has said that the Holocaust (the Jewish one) has been USED to create a myth that allows for the genocide and ethnic cleansing that has continued to occur in that region, since Israel was designated a state. So, now that we’re clear on what that means, we can also understand the Iranian support of the Palestinians as well as the Lebanese, since both have undergone multiple attacks by Israel over the decades. In the case of Lebanon, just as recently we know, as July, 2006. Lebanon did in fact resist in that attack, and the resistance was in fact carried out by Hizbullah. It’s speculative to suggest that Iran was directly involved, but I wouldn’t rule it out absolutely.

However, that still does not address the constant complaints by Howard, that Iran has ‘threatened’ Israel over and over and over again.
#119183 by driving bear

Driving bear,
Maybe what you heard was correct in this statement about Iran assisting Hezbollah in that resistance from the summer of 2006. If time permits later on, I’ll try to verify it. Until then, I’ll take your word for it.

On the Khan connection however, I already know that to be a bogus connection, having researched it myself, about a year ago. I could publish that paper here, but it’s unlikely that would sway you. So, my suggestion would be to check the IAEA website, and go to the documentations section on Iran. The BBC on line also has full coverage of this, and you can check with globalresearch.org as well.

In a nutshell though, the report of the connection between Khan and Iran was almost identical in circumstances to the reports, (via Chibali and other Iraqi opposition figures) that Iraq had some sort of WMD. We all know what happened there. Same deal with Iran. It was all lies/rumor/innuendo.

And, as Tony has indicated, (as I have known myself from the same extensive research) the nuclear thing is pure BS. The Iranian program to produce nuclear energy for civilian purposes is perfectly legal under the terms of the treaty, and that includes the enrichment of uranium. It’s that simple.

Consequently, as it stands now, and as it has always been, the only nuclear weapons holders in the region are Israel and Pakistan. Pakistan of course is NOT considered to be part of the Middle East, but nuclear weapons in ANY hands are dangerous, and in violation of multiple international laws/treaties.

Scott,  or Mr. Ritter.

What happened?  Was the bribe money from big oil (middle east oil) enough?  Money can calm the conscience.  Disgrace to the Corps.

reply to #119034 by cyrena on 12/09 at 1:29 am
(1748 comments total)

The only direct action against Israel by Iran I know of was in the second Lebanon war in summer of 06. During this war Iran military personal were in southern Lebanon providing “technical assistance” to Hezbollah on some of the advanced rockets fired at Israel. A particular case is the radar guided one that hit Israel ship in the Med. Some reports I have heard said the the Iranians actually fired it.

As for the president of Iran and his crazy talk during a speech about a year and a half ago during which he talked about it’s nuke program later in the speech he said iran quote “will engulf the world in fire”. many people in Israel and the Sunni gulf states took this quote to mean that he planned to use the nukes once he had them. Is this just talk from iran’s president I don’t know but Israel will not bet its life on it.

As for Iran’s nuke program : iran may or may not have stopped it’s program I personally think the CIA does not have a clue. I think there are 2 reason for them to have suspended their program.

1. They have purchased a detailed nuke program from A.Q. Khan and therefore have no need to develop one of their own. I have heard that KHan sold them everything they need once they have enriched uranium
including blueprints for a Chinese designed bomb

2nd they are at a point that they can not go forward until they have enriched uranium.

Also remember the only difference in enriched uranium for a power plant and for a bomb is that for a bomb the the uranium just needs to further enriched.
with the centrifuges Iran has they can enrich the uranium to weapons grade.
with enough weapons grade uranium iran could restart its program had have the bomb in about 90 days.

Non Credo P.S.
I guess I don’t see how “we” are heard by the “anybody” outside of this site…I do hope I am wrong.  I am barely literate in this blogging world of technology.  So where is the effect?  Where is it felt, how is it felt, and is it effective and if so how?  Sorry to be redundant.

Non Credo;
I’m curious; why do you think this and other forums like this are more dangerous to the powers that be, than civil disobedience?

#119169 by Non Credo on 12/09 at 11:59 pm
(753 comments total)

NC says, “but what one discovers is that the “liberals” who come here are far from uniform in their opinions, and so one does in fact encounter information and opinions challenging to one’s preconceptions here.”

What an excellent comment.  I have always resisted the notion the term liberal had any meaning other than; “BROAD-MINDED; especially: not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms”…this from Miriam-Webster.  I do not fit any normal Pigeon hole that some people like to use to describe liberals.  As I’m sure you know; when you classify something it becomes static and, never more than if one believes it.  In fact I much prefer the term Humanist.  Further, “viva la difference”.  Diversity is interesting as is a healthy debate.  Many conservatives I’ve met are quite rigid, inflexible, and just plain stuck.  They seem hung up on telling the rest of us what’s good for us:  Never in a million years!!!!!  Yes, “us” liberals can and do, the same thing, so diligence is required.
Thanks for your excellent comment.

#119175 by Douglas Chalmers on 12/10 at 1:50 am
(1452 comments total)

Yeah, I agree.  Thats one reason I started posting again, I just can’t remain silent during these dangerous times.

#119166 by Tony Wicher on 12/09: “...would make some sense to me if Israel regarded as Iran’s biggest threat its support for Hezbollah who are helping Palestinians and Lebanese….”

They want Hezbollah (ḥizbu-llāh) to destabiliize and divide Syria as well as Lebanon (Shia vs Sunni) and Israel is willing to sit back and wait for it to happen. It won’t….....

119154 by Verne Arnold on 12/09: “...so this is my “action”; one more drop of water in the ocean…”

Don’t ever give up, Verne. Your “drop” is as necessary as mine in this ocean we are churning. As #119169 by Non Credo says, the so-called conservatives simply do not share our core values. We all have to do it for ourselves, uhh.

#119110 by troublesum on 12/09: “They were not crushed, but simply ignored as “nothing more than a focus group.” The anti-war movement collapsed at the start of the war…”

Yes, the methodology right from 9/11 was carefully constructed to play upon the weaknesses and fears of all Americans. Everyone was more or less deluded until some started to actually look at what was really happening.

Re #119034 by cyrena on 12/09 at 1:29 am

I would make some sense to me if Israel regarded as Iran’s biggest threat its support for Hezbollah who are helping Palestinians and Lebanese. The nuclear threat is pure BS.

#119110 by troublesum on 12/09 at 11:58 am
(38 comments total)

.....“They were not crushed, but simply ignored as “nothing more than a focus group.” The anti-war movement collapsed at the start of the war.  That cannot be blamed on Bush.”

Agreed, I have consistently stated this position myself.  In my saner moments I blame “the people” for allowing this travesty to continue.  I have pleaded, ranted, raved, cajoled and all but given up.  I even quit posting for a while because I’m not convinced it’s any more than a place to see oneself in print; a false sense of accomplishing something useful.  I am living out of the country so this is my “action”; one more drop of water in the ocean.

If it were a fight for the same old piece of cheese, everything else staying about the same as of old, I can see myself being lethargic enough and going along with ‘my side’ of the cheese game. But as I see it today, the situation is complicated by a universal catastrophe already taking place: re overpopulation, climate change, too much money, the globe not getting any larger, new players on the field playing not on new, but old violins… that is why I think Bush, Chaney and the gang is, well, a last kind of blind Hurrah. On the other hand, having survived a catastrophe in the last century, I believe there is a kind of hope in a catastrophic event. True, survival of any individual becomes uncertain. Even the nicest of the guys get killed, get sent off to concentration camps, die every which way at most unpredictable times. I think that we are already geared up and in the initial stages of such an ‘every which way’. I am for taking action, but then again I am not, because I think that ‘action’ is already taking place, and whatever happens in the next few years will be part of what has already started. The future will date the start with 9/11 perhaps, but actually it began a long time before that—as a result of the path not taken.

In terms of action, I would suggest looking entirely in the other direction. That is, leave Bush et al gather what they have sown (there are other big players who will do their blocking moves), but start organizing alternative communities away from the cities, where you can grow your own cabbages and potatoes and perhaps save some of the worthwhile technology and know-how we have come up with from disappearing in the smoke.

Some of the largest and most wide spread anti-war demonstrations in the history of the nation took place in late February, early March, 2003.  They were not crushed, but simply ignored as “nothing more than a focus group.”  The anti-war movement collapsed at the start of the war.  That cannot be blamed on Bush.  We should be careful not to try to excuse our own lack of will by calling it repression on the part of the government.
We are in deep trouble and I don’t know what good it does to be going on about the “Zionists.”  What’s next, Jewish bankers and the Illuminati?

Non Credo I fully agree with you.People like ourselves who are critical of this “phony war on terror”,and poor little Israel will find themselves in a lot of trouble.Enjoy your chance to speak freely while you can.

Civil liberties during the Vietnam War era?  I seem to remember a lot of blood on the streets of Chicago in August 1968 and some dead bodies on the campus of Kent State University in May, 1970.

New Hampshire will be just the beginning.

http://www.operationnh.com/

#119051 by troublesum on 12/09 at 4:29 am
(36 comments total)

Actually I was a little too easy (quick) on that one.  The Viet Nam war was an example of the last time I can remember us having a semblance of power.  Our government was still unsure and slightly afraid of the power of the people, so they acquiesced to massive popular uprising of the people (of which I am proud to have been a part) and we did have some power.  Now, I think any massive acts of civil disobedience would be crushed without mercy.  Our recent (new found) apathy and apparent impotency, has emboldened this administration to act with extreme prejudice towards its citizens.  Added to that are all of the subsequent House Bills passed under the radar regarding “Homeland Security” which have ensured our powerlessness…..so in the end, you are correct. 

A recent example of this would be the recent conviction of a group of people demonstrating against “Blackwater”.  They were tried and convicted in a private court session.  The public was excluded from the proceedings….check it out.

Excuse me while I throw up.

#119051 by troublesum on 12/09 at 4:29 am
(36 comments total)

Yup, no argument here, about the thing you say!

5 1/2 years??  How about 230 years.  When have the people of this country ever had any power?  This business of emergency planning didn’t start with the Bush administration.  David Dellinger used to say that his name was on a long list of people who were to be arrested by the FBI at the first sign of rebellion against the government.  The Bush doctrines, foreign and domestic, are nothing new; Bush is simply the first president to spell them out in detail for all to see.

#119047 by Non Credo on 12/09 at 3:51 am
(746 comments total)

Maddening? No, it used to be maddening, now it’s down right infuriating.  How dare they!  But they do dare; and we the people no longer count for S*&%T.

Summary, from 9/11 to the present:  This administration set the agenda and we went along with it for 51/2 to 6 years.  They abused their permission and we have said, okay, stop. 

They haven’t stopped and, have in fact, blatantly ignored their constituency. 
Why are we not demanding, publicly, for these servants of the public to acquiesce to our wishes?  70% oppose Bush.  Why do they ignore us?  Because “they” have already won.  That is the only logical conclusion I can come up with. 

“Bye, bye, American pie, drove the Chevy to the levy but the levy was dry…………………………………..”

Quote Scott Ritter, p.2: “Rather than wait for disaster to strike, it would behoove Sen. Biden and others to use every parliamentary procedure available to subject the Bush Iran policy to the most critical scrutiny possible in order to deconstruct the unitary executive utopia the president (and vice president) currently resides in….....  Specific provisions that delink Iran from existing war powers authority .......send a clear signal to the president about the limitations of his power…... impeachment…... But the will of Congress must be expressed, not implied, and soon…....The time for action is now…. “

“The civil struggle for the restoration of the national rights of the Southern Azerbaijani Turks including the Tehran Turks is still continuing…... When the Gajar State was officially collapsed in 1925, the rest 280 sq kms of the Southern Azerbaijan territory had been included in the Mamaleke Mahruseye Iran state in the manner of the deprivation of the minimal national- human rights and afterwards the “Keshvare Shahanshahiya Iran” had been included into the Iran State…..” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5PoedKBq-Y&feature =related

By the way, look at this video; it will show why I think the revo is already done.  I got it from another poster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl1VIhdpl4c

From the Asia Times

A smart side to US intelligence By Kaveh L Afrasiabi

“What is more, the White House, already piling up sufficient justification as well as congressional authorization for an attack on Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps, labeled as terrorists, does not really need the nuclear threat as part of its military contemplations against Iran. Any strike on Iran’s Guards can easily escalate and extend to the nuclear facilities. All the more reason then to reject media speculation that the US military threat against Iran has altogether disappeared for the remaining year or so of the George W Bush presidency.”

And

“In conclusion, the NIE may have been the brainchild of bureaucratic infighting aimed at fettering the neo-conservatives pinning their hopes on a US attack on Iran by the lame-duck president. But equally important is the other side effect of this report in dampening oil prices at a critical time when the US, and perhaps the global economy, is headed toward recession, according to many economists. And also when the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries cartel is contemplating shifting its currency exchange away from the US dollar.”

“A pre-emptive strike against that move was needed by the US and, it turns out, the NIE has precisely such a policy effect, on a broad range of issues. Who knows, in retrospect, the NIE, reflecting one of the most flagrant cases of US intelligence reversals in history, may be remembered as also a unique example of American smart power.”

A stupid, dangerous man can easily be shot down on the street like a rabid dog.  A smart man is far more dangerous because he will never be caught in the open.  Do not forget for one minute; this administration is not stupid.  If they were they would have been caught by now.  There is indeed method to their madness and it has never been more evident than now.  The NIE report was like a flash of transparency for the briefest of moments about the game being played by the neo-cons.  These guys have already insured their presence for the future….I think the revolution already happened and we missed it!

#118888 by Paolo

•  It sounds crazy, but since Paul and Kucinich are both obviously being frozen out of the race by the parties’ power brokers, I hope they will consider running together on a third party ticket.

Paulo, you’re right on this one, but it doesn’t just SOUND crazy, it IS crazy, and while you certainly haven’t been the only one to suggest this, it only takes a few seconds of listening to, (or reading between the lines) on the Ron Paul agenda, for anyone to know how crazy it is.

•  I know they have differences on domestic policy that are beyond profound, but at least they both speak their minds clearly, without the mealy-mouthed bromides we hear from all the other candidates.

Their differences are far more than ‘beyond profound’ , because they’re totally beyond the pale. They couldn’t BE any further apart on domestic policy. Not only domestic policy, but foreign policy as well. Contrary to those who continue to tote the ‘maverick’ properties of Ron Paul, anyone with even an iota of understanding about the positions/policies/agendas of either candidate, would know this.

Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul have one thing in common, and one thing only, of any interest to the American people. That is that they have both expressed a commitment to ending the US occupation of the Middle East, and specifically Iraq. They share that same commitment with Barack Obama, (despite you’re constant hyping of the debate question some months back, that tricked them all) as well as John Edwards and Richards, and Gravel. ALL of those candidate have expressed that commitment. It is the ONLY thing that Ron Paul has in common with any of them, INCLUDING Dennis Kucinich.

The ‘differences’ as you say, are ‘beyond profound’ beginning with a few of the most basics:

Kucinich is a liberal Democrat, and has been for decades. He’s the only one to come up with a single payer health plan that will cover all Americans. Ron Paul is a radical right wing conservative repuglican, and has been for decades. He has NO desire to provide anything even in the outer realm of a health plan, OR ANY OTHER SERIVCE FOR THE COMMON GOOD OF THE CITIZENS. Rather, Ron Paul would just as soon see us all “covered” in the same cemetery.

In short, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are POLAR OPPOSITES in ideology, and everything else, including your alleged reference to any ‘honestly’ on behalf of Ron Paul.

To continue to suggest any comparisons between them is dishonesty that ALSO goes beyond the pale, and an unfair association to Kucinich. And, that is exactly what you suggest, in any pairing-up.

So, in the spirit of honesty and intellectual integrity, you should at least research their voting records, as well as their basic positions, before you make this unfair ‘association’ again, even if we can all recognize it to be the dishonest propaganda that it is. Ron Paul cannot ride on the coattails of another politician who has in fact displayed courage and integrity in the public forum.

To make comparisons between them is despicable, and any sincere supporter of Dennis Kucinich would find it exactly that…despicable!!

#118912 by Tony Wicher
•  Widely thought to be the Middle East’s sole if undeclared nuclear power, Israel considers Iran its top enemy following repeated statements by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for the Jewish state to be wiped off the map.
Thanks Tony,
The above excerpt is from the post you included about the poll of Israeli’s regarding how they feel about attacking Iran unilaterally. We’ve talked at length on this on another thread, (directly dealing with the poll) and of course there were the standard accusations of all of this there as well.
In short, the fact that Iran is such a ‘foe’ of Israel. (though I don’t know if I’ve ever seen it worded as Israel being a ‘foe’ of Iran, even though it’s Israel with the nukes). And, in that thread, (like so many countless others) there are those posters (you know who they are) that go on and on about Iran’s on-going and never ending aggression and threats against Israel. And, in response, (because we’ve been hearing this stuff for years now) I asked specifically, if ANYBODY, could give me any substantiated indications of any of these threats or aggressions. (by Iran, toward Israel).
Now, in that request, I included a ‘qualifier’ of sorts. I was looking for something OTHER THAN this very old rhetoric about ‘wiping Israel off the map”. There are a couple of reasons. First,  I know that this is standard ‘Middle East Rhetoric”, that has been around for decades. Secondly, I know that this ‘charge’ has been leveled against ACTORS in just about every single Arab/Muslim country/group in the region. IOW, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Yemen, the UAE and MORE, have been accused of making this threat, at some point in time, (or several times) over the past 3 decades.
What I’m hoping to find out –now- is whether or not IRAN, has ever done ANYTHING other than mouth this very old rhetoric. I ask because I know that it is exactly that. Rhetoric. It’s like a ‘slogan’ for the Arab/Muslim nations, and has been repeated countless times, (by countless actors, over decades and decades) because it is nothing more than a piece of euphemistic rhetoric, and is clearly not intended to be taken LITERALLY, since it would do absolutely NO ONE in the Middle East, ANY GOOD, to literally wipe the place off the map. It is tantamount to saying to a kid or a spouse, “I’m going to kill you”, when they’ve done something that personally peeves us. It’s the same as I said a jillion times growing up, about any number of things…”My parents will kill me if I crash the car”. Or, my mother will kill me if I’m late, or screw up the ‘whatever”.
So, my question then, (as it is now) is this, is THIS the ONLY aggressive or threatening action that IRAN has ever taken against Israel? If there are others, I really would like to know. I’ve been researching, and I can’t find anything other than this, and I’ve already said how I feel about it. Iran hasn’t been the first to say it, Ahmadinejad hasn’t been the first to say it, because it’s more like a “National Slogan” for the entire region. So, does ANYBODY know about any REAL threats, by Iran, toward Israel? Has IRAN, ever made any REAL attempts to ATTACK Israel? (not Hezbollah, but IRAN)
The same goes for disregarding the alleged “Holocaust Denial” because we know that didn’t happen either, but was also intentionally misrepresented by those who would continue the victimhood propaganda on behalf of Israel.
meantime, there’s this:
Bush May Still Bomb Iran, Despite NIE
  By Matthew Rothschild
  The Progressive

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/120607N.shtml

....” In essence, the National Security Strategy commits the United States to regime change in Iran….”

  “ And Congress, thanks to that resolution Hillary Clinton signed on to, has already designated Iran as an enemy at war with the United States, since it states that Iran is waging a “proxy war” against our forces in Iraq.”

“If the “Zionists” are so powerful how is it that they have never had more that a little piece of land in the desert of the Middle East?

Re #118967 by 1dree5 on 12/08 at 2:49 pm
(60 comments total)
TONY WICHER:
“I don’t think they will listen to the Zionists if they don’t think it serves U.S. interests.”

Sir i hate to offend you but i just gotta say this:

you might be in your 40’s or 50’s or even 60’s but in terms of global happennings you are a TODDLER.
————————& #8212;———————R 12;———————— -
1dree5,

Well, that’s a challenge! What are you saying, that mature people in the know realize that Jews are behind the whole world’s problems?

Very well said Mr Ritter:

This may be rushing into some rash analysis, but it seems most likely (due to some compelling evidences) that soon we are going to have another 9/11 incident! This time ground zero may not be some twin tower like targets in America but it will be (most probably)—-Tel-Aviv-Israel.

America uses its proxies like tissue paper. Israel services are since stretched over a long period of time. Israel has indirectly enabled US to secure Iraq and to use Iraq as most wanted US mega base in the Middle East.

Now it is time to say ‘thank you’ to old proxy and also to say…a good bye.(America’s old bad habit).Israel ought to be brought to the Alter for the sacrifice ; and to quell and silence a first hand witness for good. It is over due since long! (Another bad habit of US)

Action in Tel-Aviv is the most appropriate scenario to declare Iran responsible for this; then invade Iran and to facilitate a regime change over there.
The next US mega base in Iran may be in North of Tehran; over looking Caspian Sea; a most vantage point to watch and guard any subsequent, possible Russian moves from across Caspian Sea.
————————& #8212;——————-
Love for all, Hatred for none

Don’t really care what Israel wants, or believes.

But then again, maybe the posters are saying that the only way to rouse congress is for Israel to get upset.

Unfortunately, I don’t believe this congress is “unrousable”, a nurse couldn’t find a pulse.

Outrage, after outrage, violation after violation, Mr. Bush should have been impeached long ago, then all of this would be a moot point.

But as it stand now, congress will do nothing, until after it happens, then they’ll stamp their feet and act all outraged, and threaten to cut off funding, but the bottom line is they won’t do anything about it.

And Mr. Bush knows it, that’s why he could care less about what the constitution says, he’s a defacto Dictator, put in power by a bunch of weak knee’d polichickens - the Democratic party.

#118916 by troublesum on 12/08 at 10:07 am
(34 comments total)

The war goes on because it is profitable for corp orations like Haliburton and Bechtel.  Their profits were falling before the war but went up astronomically after the start of the war.  This is why Cheney wants perpetual war; AIPAC is beside the point although it does have considerable influence on congressional democrats.
————————& #8212;———————R 12;———————-
I would say “the Lobby” is part of the problem, in that it supplies Haliburton, Bechtel, etc. with an ideological justification for their depredations: we have to do it to defend our best buddy Israel. The Zionist lobby has been a great ally, all right - of Haliburton and Bechtel, not the American people. Breaking the grip of the Zionist lobby, stopping the neocons and breaking the grip of the military-industrial complex on our government are closely related.

#118919 by Non Credo on 12/08 at 10:11 am
(741 comments total)

re: #118912 by Tony Wicher on 12/08 at 9:58 am:

Tony, that poll only shows that Israelis oppose a unilateral attack on Iran, by Israel, acting alone. It’s no surprise that Israelis oppose this, for purely practical (and frankly, selfish) reasons. They want it done; they just want somebody else to do it for them.

It cannot be taken as evidence that Israelis are enlightened and peaceable.”
————————& #8212;———————R 12;————————
NC,

At least it can be taken as evidence that they are not all completely foaming-at-the-mouth crazy.

I would have to say that the neocons have lost the foreign policy debate, and the NIE shows that saner
forces are taking control. I don’t think they will listen to the Zionists if they don’t think it serves U.S. interests.

#118916 by troublesum on 12/08 at 10:07 am. This is the real meat, I believe. Why do the rest of these comments seem to be navel gazing by anti-semitics or Israeli/Jewish angst commentators.

The war goes on because it is profitable for corp orations like Haliburton and Bechtel.  Their profits were falling before the war but went up astronomically after the start of the war.  This is why Cheney wants perpetual war; AIPAC is beside the point although it does have considerable influence on congressional democrats.