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Cheering for Ron Paul

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Posted on Nov 20, 2007
Ron Paul
AP photo / Charles Dharapak

By Robert Scheer

What can you get for a trillion bucks?  Or make that $1.6 trillion, if you take the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as tallied by the majority staff of Congress’ Joint Economic Committee (JEC).  Or is it the $3.5-trillion figure cited by Ron Paul, whose concern about the true cost of this war for ordinary Americans shames the leading Democrats, who prattle on about needed domestic programs that will never find funding because of future war-related government debt?

Given that the overall defense budget is now double what it was when President Bush’s father presided over the end of the Cold War—even though we don’t have a militarily sophisticated enemy in sight—you have to wonder how this president has managed to exceed Cold War spending levels.  What has he gotten for the trillions wasted? Nothing, when it comes to capturing Osama bin Laden, bringing democracy to Iraq or preventing oil prices from tripling and enriching the ayatollahs of Iran while messing up the American economy.

That money could have paid for a lot of things we could have used here at home.  As Rep. Paul points out, for what the Iraq war costs, we could present each family of four a check for $46,000—which exceeds the $43,000 median household income in his Texas district.  He asks: “What about the impact of those costs on education, the very thing that so often helps to increase earnings?  Forty-six thousand dollars would cover 90 percent of the tuition costs to attend a four-year public university in Texas for both children in that family of four.  But, instead of sending kids to college, too often we’re sending them to Iraq, where the best news in a long time is they [the insurgents] aren’t killing our men and women as fast as they were last month.”

How damning that it takes a libertarian Republican to remind the leading Democratic candidates of the opportunity costs of a war that most Democrats in Congress voted for.  But they don’t need to take Paul’s word for it; last week, the majority staff of the Joint Economic Committee in Congress came up with similarly startling estimates of the long-term costs of this war.

The White House has quibbled over the methods employed by the JEC to calculate the real costs of our two foreign wars, because the Democrats in the majority dared to include in their calculations the long-term care of wounded soldiers and the interest to be paid on the debt financing the war.  Of course, you need to account for the additional debt run up by an administration that, instead of raising taxes to pay for the war, cut them by relying on the Chinese Communists and other foreigners who hold so much of our debt.  As concluded by the JEC report, compiled by the committee’s professional staff, “almost 10 percent of total federal government interest payments in 2008 will consist of payments on the Iraq debt accumulated so far.”

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However, even if you take the hard figure of the $804 billion the administration demanded for the past five years, and ignore all the long-run costs like debt service, we’re still not talking chump change here.  For example, Bush has asked for an additional $196 billion in supplementary aid for his wars, which is $60 billion more than the total spent by the U.S. government last year on all of America’s infrastructure repairs, the National Institutes of Health, college tuition assistance and the SCHIP program to provide health insurance to kids who don’t have any.

On this matter of covering the uninsured, it should be pointed out to those who say we (alone among industrialized nations) can’t afford it that we could have covered all 47 million uninsured Americans over the past six years for what the Iraq war cost us.  How come that choice—war in Iraq or full medical coverage for all Americans—was never presented to the American people by the Democrats and Republicans who voted for this war and continue to finance it?

Those now celebrating the supposed success of the surge might note that, as the JEC report points out, “[m]aintaining post-surge troop levels in Iraq over the next ten years would result in costs of $4.5 trillion.”  Until the leading Democratic candidate faces up to the irreparable harm that will be done to needed social programs over the next decades by the red-ink spending she supported, I will be cheering for the libertarian Republican.  At least he won’t throw more money down some foreign rat hole.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By OneTuza, January 12, 2008 at 10:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wake up America!  Educate yourself!  If you want to know why Ron Paul wants to get rid of the Federal Reserve and the IRS, visit freedomtofascism.com and check out Aaron Russo’s documentary, “America, From Freedom To Fascism”  Bulk order it for $1.25 each and send it to your non-computer literate baby boomer friends, heck, all of your friends and relatives!
WE THE PEOPLE need to take back our Republic!
(BTW, I’m 62 years old)

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By LWM, December 24, 2007 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Actually several of my relatives died fighting the nazis on their feet.

Some of my relatives might have killed them. They tell me they all squealed like pigs. Some of my family fought for America. Just like the Civil War, brother against brother.

grin

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By LWM, December 24, 2007 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment

Oh sweet jeebus!

Phatprick Hanky… It appears this blog, called Cheering for Ron Paul, has been taken over by the blathering bitches of Orange county.

Ladies, have at this racist, sexist anti-semitic boob.

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By Jaki, December 22, 2007 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

#121749 by PatrickHenry on 12/21 at 2:34 pm

Well, Patrick, my face is a slight shade of pink.  While I was writing my last post, which was immediately after Cyrena posted one to me, I got distracted and didn’t finish for a while, then posted without reading the current stuff, which included your compliments on my contribution, apologies to those you attacked, and commitment to a more uplifting, if not spirited, debate on issues, without personal attacks. 

I am going to trust you are sincere, and I withdraw my RAT analogy as related to you.  It takes a lot of courage to apologize.  Backatcha.

The internet is a great place to learn, as well as express.  All of us are in some state of rage at the machine, helplessness, fear (thank THEM for that),
frustration, ignorance, limited awareness, and who knows what else.  It is indeed, and as I said I try to constantly heed my own words, difficult to discipline ourselves not to inflict pain and/or negative energy on each other in the expression of all that distress. 

That is EXACTLY what those who believe they have the divine right to rule us want us to do—turn on each other.  It is what has happened in ghettos, barrios, Africa, and everywhere in the world where the have-nots and the powerless are fighting for meager
resources doled out in pitiful and grossly inadequate measure, and controlled by overwhelming force.

It is interesting to note that most of the police beating up black people in New Orleans are black.
Those fighting the battles of the rich for riches in Iraq are poor.  On and on ad nauseum.

I’m not sure if Cyrena is right about the tactics of doing battle with the genuinely recalcitrant liars and smear mongers on the internet.  We all succumb at times to the temptation to just vent.  I know I do.  And afterwards I may feel good for a moment or two, but on reflection I feel diminished.  Maybe I am taking it too seriously, but I still feel it would generally be better to rise above it and take the higher road.  I hear people better when they do that, and I suspect the reverse is true.  I am more likely to take other opinions to heart and consider them when they are offered respectfully.  I may still end up disagreeing, but not dismissing without pause.

So, of course, I will continue to debate with you and others about Ron Paul and the other politicians with whom I not only disagree, but see as forces of destruction against a society that, in my vision, embraces equality, liberty, and justice for all.  And as you can tell by now, for me “all” includes women,  for many of whom I speak out on the issues of health, economic parity, control of our bodies, and other needs specific to our gender.

Thank you for your comments.  Best of luck in the future.

And Happy Solstice to you!

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By Jaki, December 22, 2007 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

#121640 by cyrena on 12/20 at 11:45 pm

Cyrena…Points well taken.  So long as you (and all of us) are having fun!  I can see that.  It is sometimes just so liberating to tell the assholes where to go and do it anonymously.  Mea Culpa!  And you are correct, so long as it does not suck you in too far or give you apoplexy!  I do like your analogies.

But I also think there is a time to stop and not give them the arena or ego gratification of having someone pay attention to their inane musings.  There is a behaviorist tenet that continuous reinforcement when completely cut off, with no reinstatement at all, will cause the RAT to stop coming to that source fairly quickly.  On the other hand, what is called “partial reinforcement,” that is, reinstatement of reward after it has been cut off, even if just once or twice, will keep the rat returning and returning and returning.

I’m sure these rats will just find other mazes in which to continue their confused mental dysfunction and smear attacks.  The identified rat has just invaded the Huckabee article on Truthdig.  Come join the fun!  Like you say, we will keep finding them and exposing them and maybe sooner or later they will melt into a puddle of their own oooze.

You have elevated my confidence in the intelligence
and savvy of the bloggers who seem to actually speak truth to power, with sanity, awareness, knowledge and genuine compassion.  I will trust that The Great Equalizer will sort out the chaff.

BLESSINGS ON THE WINTER SOLSTICE, SISTER!  and to EVERYONE ELSE!

I hope we will all STOP, BE QUIET, and have a reflective moment today to think about and commune with Our Mother, The Earth, in one of her moments of greatest darkness, and pledge our hearts and minds and bodies to healing the wounds the Barbarians have inflicted and will continue to savage upon her unless and until they are stopped.

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By Shenonymous, December 21, 2007 at 4:39 pm Link to this comment

I’m so sorry Ernest, but I won’t be arguing with you.  We are both now committed to our respective candidates and I won’t say anything negative about Kucinich nor you. I have high regard for Kucinich and I respect you and your thinking, but I have thought it all through and I will stand up for what I believe.  I do think Edwards is contrite about his voting for the war early on, but he has seen the light and I can only give him the benefit of the doubt.  I absolutely despise Lieberman, but politics makes for strange bedfellows and we do not know enough to pass judgment.  I’m sure we can find skeletons in all candidates closets.  I will continue to look forward to your comments and please have a happy solstice.  It begins tonight.


Completely believing in a civil society, Patrick Henry, I wholeheartedly accept your apology.  I can get very hot under the collar and feisty, to say the least.  I will certainly hold to Jaki’s standard and usually do unless somebody acts like an AH.  I respect your decision to support Ron Paul, although I cannot see how anyone can, but we have our own proclivities.  I hope you will tolerate it when I post something repugnant I’ve discovered about your candidate, I will not attack you, however.  And you too, please have a happy solstice.

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By cann4ing, December 21, 2007 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

As an addendum to my last post, Shenonymous seems to think that it is wise to vote for Edwards because, well, she has a “good feeling” about him, and, well, the press and polls say he has better numbers supposedly than Kucinich.  So, I suppose we ignore the fact that Edwards’s so-called health-care reform is a carbon copy of what Nixon was advocating back in 1970 to head of Senator Kennedy’s efforts at that time to adopt a national health care system.  Any “reform” that does not cut out the $350 billion currently wasted on the parasitic vampires known as the healthcare insurance industry is a scam.  But hey, the man has a nice smile, says he’s for the poor and, after all, how could we vote for a man (Kucinich) who is a head shorter than his wife?

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By PatrickHenry, December 21, 2007 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

re: #121537 by Jaki

I found you post to be one the best I have ever read here at Truthdig, It was very objective and therefore revealing.

I am guilty of much you ascribe to and especially owe you, Jaki, Shenonymous and Cyrena an apology for any over the top insults that I have given.

You only have to back 50 posts or so to see how it escalated. Nothing I’m proud of.  I will do my best to avoid repeating it.

I ask each of you the same thing and hold Jaki’s standard to each of your posts. 

I must remind you that I do support Ron Paul as the Republican candidate as he is the best among them and will continue to post here as the good news of his candidacy develops.

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By cann4ing, December 21, 2007 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment

Let’s not forget that John Edwards did not merely vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq but was a co-sponsor along with Lieberman.  During one of the debates he, like Clinton and Obama, refused to say that all troops would have left even as late as 2013.

There seems to be a fundamental gap between what Edwards the candidate says and what Edwards the Senator did.

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By Shenonymous, December 21, 2007 at 9:21 am Link to this comment

Edwards’ “take” on the war is lengthy and explicitly spelled out at the On the Issues site, which seems to be a completely objective site that lists all candidates’ views on all the issues and is quite good to make comparisons.  If you have two browsers, you can invoke the site on two candidates at the same time to make it easier to compare them.  The following sites are respectively for Edwards and Kucinich.  You have to scroll through the candidate’s page to get to the Issue you are looking for, for instance on the Iraq war, Edwards’ position is a couple of scrolls down.  Check it out, it can be fascinating for any candidate you want to know more about.

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Edwards.htm


http://www.ontheissues.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

Happy Solstice 2007

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By Leefeller, December 21, 2007 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

She,

Must agree with you, I have found the little bit I have listened to Edwards, his rhetorics makes more sense than the other two front runners picked by the mass media.

It would be my hope that he would clean up the Whitehouse and be a president for most of the people instead of special interests.

What is his take on the war? Seems digging for substance one has to dig for all of the front runners, that is why Kucinich was so refreshing. 

Truth is what Kucinich seems to provide, does Edwards?

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By Shenonymous, December 21, 2007 at 2:24 am Link to this comment

I am well aware I am going to suffer the ire of many, but let the tarot cards fall where they may (they don’t really do anything, so what? Me afraid?  Naw, it just sounded good to say it, somewhat theatrical).  I have just posted almost the exact, same comment on the Edwards “Looking Beyond the Haircut” forum and I see no reason not to repost it here.  So here you go folks.  Have at me.

Have I found my candidate? You betcha, John Edwards.  I have a good feeling about this and I don’t usually go on feelings.  I am not doing so exclusively here either, rather I have listened to all the candidates very critically over the span of time they have been stumping, debating, lecturing, and measuring what every one else is saying, both proponents and detractors, but I also am adding in the gut factor.  I don’t get that sinking feeling that I get with the other candidates regardless of their sincerity, promises, and objectives.  I have a great deal of respect for Kucinich’s principles and program, and even Hillary’s courage to wage an intelligent campaign, and Obama’s electrifying outlook.  I, at this time of solstice have chosen Edwards and it seems there are quite a few others also on this and a few other forums who have too.  Now as the new year refreshes we must do more than sound off, we must breathe more life into his candidacy than ever seen before in an election and help him kindle the energy that will bring back this country to the high moral ground and sufficiency it once had.  Personally I am going to sign up with his campaign on the solstice as an article of faith and at this moment I feel more optimistic than I have in years. And I thank you all for helping me find my way.

Happy solstice everyone and may the renewal of the sun be the genesis of a better era for you individually as well as for the world.  Let us take this time between winter solstice and summer to celebrate our humanity.  A little dramatic I know, but sometimes I get carried away, it is my histrionic nature.  But it is done with candor, probity and anticipation of a brighter now.

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By cyrena, December 21, 2007 at 12:45 am Link to this comment

#121537 by Jaki

Hi Jaki,

This is a great post, but of course I had to throw in some of my own mix here, just to keep us balanced with a bit of humor.

•  Some of the things I have noticed in my short time of responding:

1.  Those who game, bait, manipulate, and are mean-spirited will show themselves to be who they are without others wasting energy to respond.

OK,
I know this is true, and that we don’t have to respond, as they will surely show themselves, (or their ‘asses’ as my grandma would have said). On the other hand though, sometimes it’s just so much fun, and well worth the indulgence, so long as we don’t get bogged down or sucked in by it. At that point, it DOES become an energy waster.

•  They become very obvious right away with their convoluted logic, outright lies, smears, and vitriol, changing the subject when confronted with truth, escalating personal attacks, and often, because they are in a deteriorating mental state, they lack or lose command of language.

Now, all of this is true as well. But, think of it this way, some responses tend to cause them to deteriorate far more rapidly, making them all the more obvious, in a speedier period of time.

Like take PH for instance. He’s only recently begun to show his ass. I’d say within the past 4 to 5 weeks, give or take. Now I say that because he’s been posting on this site for quite a while, and he was never so obvious. (or maybe he’s like the Sybil psychosis of multiple personalities) So, something brought this out, and I would have to say that it was certain responses, whether they were intended to do that or not. And, it was probably bound to happen sooner or later. We don’t really even know if it was ‘one thing’ that caused the breakdown, or a series of things.

Now it might sound cruel, (or equally mean spirited) to target the rot and dysfunction by responding to it when it becomes apparent. But, you wouldn’t ignore a tumor that might be malignant now would you?

So, you have to either cut it out, or attack it with chemicals, or whatever seems the most appropriate for the time and the circumstance. In PH’s case, we use a combo treatment, that will hopefully just ‘cut HIM out’, and at least help to expose the poisonous nature of his psychopathy, so that others can be made aware of the infection.

It can also be thought of a lancing a boil. We pop it open, let all of the nasty shit drain out, and at some point in time, it dries up and goes away. Such as it is with PH and his ilk.

Of course that’s not to say that they don’t come back. Unfortunately, they do. So, we remain ever vigilant, without letting ourselves get too terribly worked up over it, and enjoying the time when the infection has been checked. When it returns, (if we haven’t been able to excise it completely..the preferred option) then we just whip out the antibiotics again, or get the knife for the lancing.
That comes in the form of limited responses, and also provides a warning to the rest of the society, (in this case the blog) that conditions are dangerous, and that they should be aware, and know how to recognize the poisonous elements. Once they can recognize the danger, they generally participate in the ‘cure’ and we’re back on even energy balance once again.

So, it does require a sort of constant adjustment, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be a ‘negative’ energy in any response, such as when Shenonymous recommended that PH get himself some Midol. He’s SUCH a bitch these days, and it might help him.
Even if he doesn’t follow the recommendations, at least others will be aware that he’s having a difficult menstrual cycle, (that’s just lasting a really long time) and so they’ll know to be aware.
Meantime, thanks for the intuitive piece.

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By Jaki, December 20, 2007 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment

Some of the things I have noticed in my short time of responding:

1.  Those who game, bait, manipulate, and are mean-spirited will show themselves to be who they are without others wasting energy to respond.

They become very obvious right away with their convoluted logic, outright lies, smears, and vitriol, changing the subject when confronted with truth, escalating personal attacks, and often, because they are in a deteriorating mental state, they lack or lose command of language.

They are vampires, sucking energy, to no good end.

They have no sincere interest in opening their small minds to anything other than their own garbage.

Albeit a huge temptation, it becomes beneath one’s dignity to even bother to respond.

2.  Everything in this world is composed of energy, including thoughts and spoken words.  Our human containers have limited energy and limited time.

3.  There are truly intelligent people with whom we can have conversations that educate, inform, enlighten, challenge,  and give some semblance of comfort in a world that needs it, if only by showing solidarity.

4.  Blogging can be a lesson in learning to impose boundaries on ourselves and not allow ourselves to be pulled into providing a forum and attention to the
vampires. 

None of these observations are in any way meant to discourage debate with those with whom one disagrees.
That is how we all learn and grow and change.  It is the quality of those responses that we need to learn to discern, and see or intuit motives and the modus operandi behind them. 

Allocate energy to the intelligent, reasonable, sane, and genuinely inquiring contributors.  Provocateurs abound.  They will drain us dry.  They do not deserve our attention.

I say all these things to myself, as well as everyone else.

As Jon Stewart and Al Gore commented last night on The Daily Show, the internet has become the great equalizer in the quest for and exposure of truth, but we have to be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

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By Shenonymous, December 20, 2007 at 8:14 am Link to this comment

The only joke around this forum PH is your brain.  Maybe you don’t listen to the news?  It was all over all the stations, radio and TV yesterday about McCain in Iowa.  You are such a dunce.  We all know it and think it’s you that has menstrual periods, one mixed up dude who doesn’t even know how to spell the insult he is making. Take some Midol won’t you?

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By Leefeller, December 20, 2007 at 6:39 am Link to this comment

Partisan politics two choices, the best of the worst. Here we go again!

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By PatrickHenry, December 20, 2007 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

Cyrena, Maybe you can IM your menstral cycles and have them together.

Sheman, McCain, surely you joke.

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By cyrena, December 20, 2007 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

#121364 by Shenonymous

•  Patrick Henry why don’t you pull your head out of your ass and don’t’ forget to wipe it after it’s out.

Shenonymous,

Please, let him leave it up there. It’s been there so long, it’s obviously a danger to the world at large, so leave it be. You can feel the hate and misogynistic membranes as they all rot together. It won’t be long before he blows himself up. You can just tell he’s getting closer and closer, and he just gets uglier and uglier, and more obviously demented in his comments. Just be glad you aren’t one of his kids, or heaven forbid a spouse, if he even has one. Might need to send a rescue squad for them. I know I would have escaped a long time ago. We’re talking seriously psychotic, and even dangerously so.

Meantime, I appreciated your last post on getting involved, once we see how things go after the primaries. I’m still also looking very much at John Edwards myself. I like him, in that he’s not absolutely perfect, and that he can defend whatever questionable things he may have done, (like his original vote for the action against Iraq) as simply being unable to fathom that the lies would be so unconscionable. It’s the same reason why most folks don’t want to accept the more likely truth about 9/11. Still, none of them are perfect, and I think he’s as close as we can get to what might be the best, and still electable. That’s the key with the issue on Kucinich, whom I very much like, but I just don’t know how many folks can get behind him between now and then. We’ll see.

Jaki, on Nader, I have to admit that I’d never paid a whole lot of attention to him until sort of recently, if ONLY because he was the 3rd party candidate, without much chance. That’s not to say that I don’t like most of what he says, but my first exposure to him from long ago, seemed to be more in-tuned to the upper middle class who just bitched a lot, because they didn’t want to pay their fair share of anything.

Now, that was years ago, and I admit that it wasn’t an entirely fair assessment, and besides, I was young and more ideological. SINCE then, I’ve changed my mind, and in part as a result of a film that I viewed recently, produced by his sister, Laura. It’s rather dated, (I think early 80’s) and I was really impressed with it, even though it only referenced his work, to the extent that it applied to what SHE was doing.

She’s an anthropologist by the way, (you may have known that) and this documentary, is titled “Little Injustices”. For my own work, it was very relevant, since my stuff is legal systems.

Meantime, I’ve apparently had no luck in sending you a PM. I did try, but I have no way of knowing if it reached you. I’m just guessing not. So, if you want to try on your end, we’ll see if that produces anything. I’m pretty convinced that I’ve been somehow ‘hampered’ in my communications on TD. (yes, I know it would not seem that way, based on my posts). Still, I no longer receive notifications when others post to anything. (well, VERY sporadically I should say) And, when I went to check the panel/control box yesterday, I discovered several new PM’s for which I had never received any notification. Since I don’t otherwise look at the thing, I wouldn’t have known. 

So, apparently I CAN at least receive them, but otherwise, they’ve got me like, ‘restricted’, or else I don’t know what I’m doing. (maybe both). Anyway, if you can reach me, then I can reply with my direct email address.

And now, I’m back to the latest piece from Amy, on the CIA black sites, and the torture and rendition. I’ve been following that from the beginning, but this is the first time there’s actually been testimony (that she’s done) directly from the victims of these sites. (well, there was the Canadian guy).

Shenonymous, I forgot. I remember your mention of the horowitz types that you said you all used to cast off like snot. (I loved it). smile Consider PH as such.

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By Shenonymous, December 19, 2007 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry why don’t you pull your head out of your ass and don’t’ forget to wipe it after it’s out.  You are a jerk extraordinaire (is that word too big for you, or did you only get to the second grade where 5-letter words were as big is they get, cause sweetie that is how you act?  Ron Paul is getting nowhere and McCain is eclipsing everyone this week.  Glad you wasted your votes on Nader as third party candidates will get nowhere in this country.  You don’t count anyway. 

From the blathering bitch Shenonymous Meticulous from the mindless state of Texas formerly of Southern California where my mind got tainted permanently.

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By PatrickHenry, December 19, 2007 at 4:55 pm Link to this comment

It appears this blog, called Cheering for Ron Paul, has been taken over by the blathering bitches of Orange county.

I love quasi-academics, those who know the meaning of everything (and how to spell it) but can’t change the oil in their car, the filter in their furnace or follow a simple diagram.  They are the same ones who thought the world was flat in that era. Most present themselves as liberals, hardly knowing liberal is derived from liberty, something Ron Paul advocates.

#121164 by cyrena,

You call this pressure? you have obviously led a sheltered life. Your distortion of my posts deserves a response, semantics aside.  As I previously stated all non profits, lobbies (NAACP included) and churches should pay taxes, i.e. property, sales, general use and all others as private citizens do. You twisted it into being against rich black folks (your words). As far as you being a humanist, I find that laughable as you have to resort to petty name calling and putting peoples opinions down to elevate yours.

You want to go negative, I’m here for you baby.

#121300 by Shenonymous,

“This does not include the disgusting television news and talk shows that posture posture posture and tries without success to sound intellectual and which always comes out with a bunch of shit”. 

Like your posts. 

Your vocaulary astounds me, you are out to impress and certainly do; of your conceit.  5 dollar words for 10 cent meanings is what you peddle.

#121178 by Jaki,

Whether or not you accept it you can be pro-choice and a states rights advocate.  I just don’t believe its the governments business to dictate to various communities and doctors especially in private hospitals on what procedures they have to perform against their belief systems.

BTW I voted for Nader in the past two elections so I guess were both energy sucks together and whatever that other word you said was (I guess Shenonymous will let us know). 

Leefeller,

Its fathom, not Phantom, be careful or the spelling police will get you. 

All,

You are entitled to your opinions and on election day see you at the booth, I vote candidate over party and see two fine candidates in Kucinich and Paul. I would love to see them debate the issues.

So you girls get alot of beauty sleep, pull your head out of the sand and watch Ron Pauls numbers soar even with the media censorship which you all seem to think is OK.

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By Shenonymous, December 19, 2007 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

I think it is always a conflicting choice when the options seem so limited, but it is only seeming.  I tend to think positively.
With your nine points of change, Jaki…
1.  I agree 100%
2.  I agree 100%
3.  I agree 100%
4.  I agree 100%
5.    I agree 100%
6.(5)    I agree 100%
7.    I agree 100%
8.    I agree 100%
9.    I agree 100%

Add that all up and it may be only 900% but I’d round it off to 1000%, which might be excessive but in my book it doesn’t even come close to how much I agree with you.  I know Greece too and you comparison is so accurate.  Yes we need to light a fire under the asses of the American people.  I, and Cyrena, tried to tell this to Ernest in his effort to promote Dennis Kucinich, who I think has the best ideas but is kind of flat when it comes to personality.  But Ernest is resistant and takes a stodgie unimaginative same-old same-old approach.  I don’t know yet who I will vote for, I vascillate because it is so important to me that I get it right.  John Edwards does look the part right now, but I do appreciate Kucinich’s positions.  To get back to the point, yes, you are absolutely right in what we need to do and I for one am ready to do some stuff.  I am not sure yet who I will toil for.  But once that decision is made, I will pull out all the stops I have with the little resources I have, which is more in the form of unceasing energy than a whole lot of dollars, but maybe I can be instrumental in getting other people to donate???? I have worked for political campaigns before (and in California) and I will do it again.  Course I am now in the mindless state of Texas but I’ve been seeing some signs of life here in the way of Democratic ventures.  Maybe we will come out of the woodwork.  I have bright thoughts and expectations we will get through this election and it will be sound and sure.

I always look forward to your and Cyrena’s comments and always come away after reading them with some new knowledge.

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By Jaki, December 19, 2007 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

P.S. to my immediately previous posting:

People need to be energized to participate.  I have had the experience of being in the birthplace of democracy (Greece) during one of their national elections.  People there talk politics all the time.  Their voting numbers are astounding—close to 100%.  When I was there in 1984, people were required to travel to the birthplace of their father to vote, which meant they were given priority access to all transportation means (air, water, rail, bus).  Tourists (including my group) were bumped off in order to accommodate the Greeks going to vote.  I don’t know if that is still required.  It seemed somewhat silly (and Patriarchal) to me, but they must have had their reasons. And people did it.  They traveled to vote.  They take it very seriously.

During the week before the elections, I was in Athens and got caught up in the final candidate appearances held outdoors.  In one instance over 2 million people crowded the streets.  Traffic was not allowed.  It was exhilarating.

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By Jaki, December 19, 2007 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous…I must say it is very conflictual for me to do anything to discourage people from voting Democrat in this next election.  The writing is soooo on the wall for the future; that will probably be our only sane option.

When I pose questions, I always end up thinking about my own questions and hope for some potential answers from within and without, like on this site.

How I see it is the following has to take place for this country to have fair and equal representation:

1.  Elections have to be publicly funded.  Corporate lobbyists and their influence need to be eliminated, whether that involves a First Amendment fight or not.  Money should not be equated with “free speech.”

2.  The Constitution needs to be updated.  There need to be provisions that allow legislation that is “in the public interest” (not corporate interest) to be in place “in perpetuity” until it can be proven to be no longer in such interest.

I live in one of the more “enlightened” parts of California where we have had two of the better Democrats working for us (Leon Panetta and Sam Farr) and we were able to save The Monterey Bay from oil exploitation by having it become a National Marine Sanctuary IN PERPETUITY.  Of course, it could always happen that King George or Czar Cheney might declare some kind of National Emergency or create a “terrorist attack” that could change everything, but our leaders did everything they could to keep the status permanent.

We were also, in the 80s able to keep developers at bay by passing a growth-control initiative, also (to my knowledge) in perpetuity.  Plus, we have consistently for the past twenty-plus years elected a Board of Supervisors and City Council with liberal majorities.

We have a very high level of citizen involvement and interest in the politics of our community.  But we have to be constantly vigilant. And that is the price of democracy.

3.  We will have to get all those who do not vote and/or are disenfranchised for whatever reason (hopelessness, apathy, fear, racism, you name it) to get out and vote for Democrats and then do this over and over and over for the next ten elections.  Then we will need to hold their feet to the fire and see if they truly will do what they pledge to do.  See if there really is a difference and one that is lasting.

4. It needs to be made EASY and FAIR (no long lines in minority communities) to vote.  Students and younger workers must be made aware that the future is in their hands.  How you convince them of that, I don’t know.  But they don’t vote in the numbers that are needed. 

5.  National Debates need to be taken back and given over to the supervision of non-partisan League of Women Voters.  How did it get taken from them in the first place? 

5.  Electronic Voting has to be shelved until someone invents a tamper-proof machine that provides accurate paper feedback to the voter.  Meanwhile, back to paper ballots and strenuous oversight in the counting.

6.  We need to open up our system to multiple parties with a level playing field.  Otherwise, it isn’t a democracy.

7.  Paid political ads on all media should be banned.  Again, another First Amendment battle, but one that will definitely prove to be in the public interest.
There should be a representative democratically elected public commission to which all electioneering materials are submitted to check their veracity.  Candidates should run on substance (their stands on the issues, their experience, truth) not smear.  There should be as many public debates as there can be, with all of them televised and on other media.

8.  And, most importantly, we need to work and work and work to uplift the consciousness of the people, so that racism, sexism, homophobia, and all other forms of discrimination are rooted out, and we can have a truly representative democracy.

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By Shenonymous, December 19, 2007 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

Yes, I agree with you, somewhat, too. The splinter-Democratic Party machine has siblings in every organization, those who thrive on power.  And the media is complicit in denying all the candidates who were passed over to participate in the debates, which I find completely odious and offensive and I have said so both here and on many other forums.  How to root them out is beyond my or other ordinary folks control, except to make note of them, complain like hell to the MSM and other agencies such as congress??? Whatever that good might do is debatable.  The power mongers are unstoppable in their efforts but we might be able to mediate it with our own protests. 

I have also expressed several times in different places my admiration for Nader’s work over the years, but I still believe he uses demagogic strategies as well.  A pot calling the kettle black fallacious tactic.  He needs to be listened to much more closely to get past the prima facie complaints he lodges.  But that does not completely discount what he says. I just don’t think he is presidential material.  The outcome of his lawsuit for being prevented from running in 2004 will be very interesting.  I am a fanatical advocate of searching out the truth.

Yes, we are faced with a conundrum, but the more I listen to NPR and all the various talk shows on that station the more I am encouraged that the people, we the people, are listening and noting all the warts and pimples appearing on our politicians and we will do something about them as time goes by.  This does not include the disgusting television news and talk shows that posture posture posture and tries without success to sound intellectual and which always comes out with a bunch of shit.

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By Jaki, December 19, 2007 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, although I agree with what you say in your email that there are seemingly really good Democrats working their butts off in Congress to pass legislation FOR THE PEOPLE’S BENEFIT, only to have the twits, sadists, greed mongers, and earth-haters sabotage them, but what is unclear to me is the difference between the Democratic Machine—the one that kept Ralph Nader off the ballot in many states and out of the National debates (Kucinich, too), and have silenced and discredited as much as they could those not under their control—and the duly-elected individual Democrats in the Senate and House.  Who is really in control of outcomes? Including who gets to run and who gets elected.  Who controls the money?  Who makes the threats for non-conformance?

In the film about Nader (“An Unreasonable Man”) it was pointed out that Ralph, who was the ONLY person running for President in 2000 who commanded huge audiences (10-20,000) who PAID to see and hear him, could not reach 1/10th of the population that being in the televised debates reached, even if he did personal appearances in every state every day.

I hope you are right that a shift of balance in the Congress and a Democrat in the White House will get us out of the messes this country is in.  But Clinton got us into some of those messes (NAFTA, among others).  What will another Clinton do?  Or any Democrat who needs hundreds of millions of dollars to get elected?

I am a life-long Democratic voter and I will probably hold my nose and do it again (unless Ralph runs), but I am not convinced yet that those who think the ship has to sink in order for things to change are wrong.  When you have a system where when one administration is in power certain laws and regulations can be put in place and another administration comes in and wipes it all out, you’ve got a f**ked up system.  An endless loop of wasted energy and resources.

Ralph Nader’s efforts over decades to protect the American public are being systematically wiped out by the deregulators, privatizers, and globalizers currently in power.  To see the list of what this truly courageous man has done, got to PBS.org and search for the film.

Ah, well, it is indeed quite a conundrum in which we
find ourselves. 

Need a laugh today?  Go here:
http://www.glumbert.com/media/women

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By Shenonymous, December 19, 2007 at 7:08 am Link to this comment

Well, if I were you, I just wouldn’t vote.  Let us Democrats do the work for you.  While it appears there are none and there are those who would love to blur the differences because the Republicans haven’t a bunch of gerbils’ asses chance to win the next election, there are differences.  Democrats will not forget the poor or middle class.  They will end the Bush war.  They will get health care for the majority of Americans.  It is a travesty to pretend amnesia when it comes to what the Democrats stand for.  They literally have been hamstrung by the flash-frozen brained Republicans in congress to pass any legislation, but they finally got through the emissions bill.  Yes, you can cry that we always blame the Republicans but who else are you going to blame?????  It is just the truth and the truth hurts the ones that love to lie.  Get a couple more Democrats in congress then the Republicans can eat the dust.  Yes, the Democrats can put up more fights in congress, but our not being insiders we don’t know exactly how things play about there.  What kinds of payment those devils try to screw out of the Democrats.  Democrats know that to be as obstinate as the blockhead Republicans and their blockhead president, the country would truly suffer in the short term. And we just can’t stand any more paper cuts.  Impatient reactionary behaviors only get the circle run in deeper. The wise ones bide their time and find the ways to make progress.  Democratic congressmen and senators see the writing on the wall with a malevolent president who vetoes every step forward.  He is truly an evil man.  And you all got him there.  Villainy is afoot with every single bill Democrats propose.  You can try to obscure the differences but you are deluded.

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By Leefeller, December 19, 2007 at 6:41 am Link to this comment

You know picturing an elephant with it’s head stuck up it’s arse, is hard to phantom, but Patrick Henery shows us how easily it can be done.

Earnest, very comprehensive information on the twisting of our government into the shape of a swastika. Freedoms lost to apathy, taken for profit by opportunists. 

Horowitz changed sides after his accident with the microwave, freedom was never an option in his mind. 

Truth is doomed to be covered by crap, we see it every day in the news.

She, the difference between the Democrats and the republicans, is their logos, otherwise business as usual. 

Kucinich and Gravel are the only options and the nation will never see them surface above the cover of lies.

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By Shenonymous, December 19, 2007 at 3:58 am Link to this comment

Why not ask Al Gore himself?  Al Gore has a website where such questions can be asked.  It is a legitimate and important question. 
http://www.algoresupportcenter.com/contactal.html

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By Jaki, December 19, 2007 at 1:38 am Link to this comment

Cyrena…I will look for any PMs that might appear.  Thanks for the explanation.  If I can, I’ll explore it from my end, too.  I have something I’d like to communicate directly to you.

Regarding PH…I said something in my one and only response to him that I sometimes agreed with him.  For the life of me I can’t remember when that might have been…maybe something about the press being censored.  But, in truth, I think PH is really one of those weak-minded energy sucks I referred to in my last email about being cautious.  Unless he says something that just demands an answer or the planet will die, I prefer to ignore him.  He plays people. 

He had no response when I said he could not be (as he claimed) pro-choice and pro-States Rights.  When confronted with his contradictions or with any semblance of truth, he just ignores it and goes on the attack.  That is the definition (in part) of an energy suck.  Fuggeddaboutim.

Ernest, it was just so sad, though I wasn’t surprised, to read what you said about the more extreme turn to the right the universities are making in terms of academic freedom.  Thankfully,
I’ve been out of that milieu for a long time so I haven’t been paying a lot of attention.  Is there no more SDS to counter the SAF?

Has anyone seen the documentary “An Unreasonable Man,” about Ralph Nader?  I saw it tonight on PBS.
Impressive.  What integrity. My respect for him increased by 200%.
My disrespect for the Democrat/Republican Machine
also increased by a similar amount.  I’m not sure I could vote for any Democrat now. And I know I could never vote for a Repugnican.  Ralph has said he would consider running again if the Dems run Hillary.
I wonder….

Might the 3rd time be a charm?

Are we yet sick enough of the takeover of our (budding) democracy by the corporatocracy?

Or will we again play into their whole scheme of voting for the lesser of evils and still getting evil?

Too bad Kucinich won’t bolt from the party that gives him nothing but crap.  Nader and Kucinich would make quite a team.  I like Gore’s commitment to the planet, and he appears to have changed, but after watching the Nader film, I’d have to be convinced he isn’t going to be controlled by The Machine if he gets into the White House.  That’s a big question.

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By cyrena, December 18, 2007 at 11:56 pm Link to this comment

#120919 by Jaki
•  Am I correct in my understanding that people who write on these blogs have a way to communicate directly with others by email?  As I have said before, I am new to this, but someone told me there is that option, if both consent.  If so, you are welcome to contact me personally.

Hi Jaki,
Thanks for your post…I’m just getting to it. Now on this part of it…there IS a way to do this. It’s through the Private Message system that TD has, and while I’ve been the recipient of such messages in the past, (and I was generally always please to receive them) I’ve had little luck actually ORIGINATING any of these messages on my end. Now admittedly, I haven’t tried lately, (it’s probably been close to a year since I have). When I did though, I was never able to make it work. Now it could be because of some fluke at the time, (long story -  involved a ‘hacking’ we think – never did really find out). BUT, I said that to say that I’m perfectly willing to try it again. So, when I do, I’ll let you know.

If it works, they’re supposed to send you some ‘notification’ that you’ve received a PM or ‘private message’, and then you have to go to your panel or account page to retrieve it. If I can make it work, I’ll just send you my email address, and that’ll do it.

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By cyrena, December 18, 2007 at 11:34 pm Link to this comment

#120877 by PatrickHenry

Ah…feeling the pressure there a bit PH? Yep, you’re definitely just digging yourself deeper and deeper. You shouldn’t let it get to you so easily…

Let’s have a look at your obvious emotional breakdown…

•  OK, You contribute money to the NAACP which Jesse gives to his mistress or did she sue him for it? I can’t remember and don’t care.

I don’t know either, (about the financial transactions between Jesse and his alleged mistress.) YOU BROUGHT IT UP!! As I said, IN RESPONSE to YOU –(bringing it up) I didn’t know or care either, since she definitely didn’t give any of it to me. As for any contributions to the NAACP, I probably should have said that I HAVE contributed – in the past- when I had an INCOME. That’s been a really long time now. So, I don’t any longer.

•  You said: “I’m sorry the salaries of those black folks disturbs you so much”.
Where did that come from?  I could care less. 
Here’s more. THIS ‘came from’ your reference, (in AT LEAST 2 posts, but maybe more) to the 6 and 7 figure incomes (that you think these ‘lobbyists’ earn) and how you’re all pissed off about the fact that they use city services without paying taxes. Yep PH, you’ve gone on and on about these 6 and 7 figure incomes, and then you brought up the deal with Jesse Jackson’s mistress and a million dollars, which nobody else knows is even true, since all of this stuff has come from YOU!! And, the more you write, the more the rest of us see that you’ve lost it. So, THAT’S where it comes from, (YOU) which tends to contradict the fact that you don’t care, or…in your words, ‘could care less’, which is also stupid, because if you know English, or anything even very simply ‘linguistic’, If you say that you COULD care LESS, it obviously means that you DO CARE – at least SOME.

So, when you say that again, you should say it like this: “I COULDN’T (or COULD NOT) care less. (even though it’s obvious that you do, or you wouldn’t have written the same shit over and over.)

You did the same thing on the thread that addressed Turkey’s bombing of the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Your response was, “Turkey can have all of Iraq as far as I’m concerned”.
Then, when I responded that Iraq wasn’t OURS to ‘give’ to Turkey, you came back with some stupid shit about how Iraq actually WAS yours, and how you had a lien on it and all, because your kids’ trust accounts were set up based on that money. (yes, I do paraphrase on that part, but it was that ridiculous, so I’m relaxing the rules).

So, it would appear that you can’t make up your distorted and troubled mind PH. First you say you don’t care, and then you proceed to provide multiple details about stuff that most folks really DON’T CARE about!! Which is it? Nevermind, spare us.

And no asshole, I wasn’t there with Hillary, she’s lots older than me, so I wouldn’t have been running in that crowd. I was just entering my Catholic High School back then.

In summary. You’re just a bitter sleazebag PH. And, since I’m a humanist, I feel sorry for you. But I can’t help you. Get a therapist.

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By cyrena, December 18, 2007 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

#121053 by Ernest Canning

On David Horowitz…

•  He contends that such offending remarks are a violation of the student’s right to academic freedom—a rather Orwellian twist that suggests that the radical right has the “freedom” to suppress all forms of thought, speech and expression that the far right feels should not be heard whereas the basic concept behind Academic Freedom involves the free flow of information sans outside political interference and censorship so as to maximize the diversity of thought and study.

Yep Ernest, Emphasis on the Orwellian TWIST!! You broke it down really well. In short, these are ideological psychopaths, and Shenonymouns explains it all so much better than I could, in this post at #121070

She writes, in part:

•  Many campuses are very savvy to his depravity and factor that into academic freedom.  I was once the target and know that campuses come to the defense of their faculty.  Now maybe not all do, but there are those that do. To my mind, Horowitz and all of his cronies are perverse reprobates and ought to be squashed like the filthy bugs they are and that is probably casting aspersions to filty bugs.

So, for the record, I’m overwhelmingly ‘blessed’ (for lack of a better word) to be at one of those savvy campuses that can and will and DO come to the defense of their faculty. (if the faculty WANT to be defended). I add that part because one of our local chairs has been attacked by the Horowitz gang, and she told the administration NOT to ‘defend’ her. (Guess she’s gonna do it herself, and I’m always glad to help wherever I can – with whatever ‘works’ - sometimes it’s pretty unconventional). wink


Also lucky for me/us/whomever….we’ve got one of those super emeriti like Shenonymous on staff here, and it just deee-lights me!!! Oh yeah!! I love it. (He’s the one on the list of the Dangerous – one of my very favorite professors.) Like…. I just feel so ‘privileged’ to have access to his brilliant mind.  (actually, we have several, but he’s the one with the emeriti status).

So, after so many years of mistreatment on the Corporate Plantation, you can imagine how tickled I am, to be in the current environment. Downright ‘smug’ sometimes. What can I say? There are far worse things I could ‘revel’ in.

Meantime, I’m all for squashing those filthy bugs of the Horowitz gang, and we’ll take any help we can get. So Shenonymous, and Jaki, and Ernest, and whomever else wants to join in…just come on down. (Shenon….bring your shit-kickers, you know you can pick up a pair at your local hardware/feed/general store smile ).

All the better for squashing the bugs.

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By PatrickHenry, December 18, 2007 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

re:  #121054 by LWM

Actually several of my relatives died fighting the nazis on their feet. 

How did yours die, on their knees?

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By Shenonymous, December 18, 2007 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

It is often the case, Ernest, when a fanatic changes it is usually into another diametrically opposed fanatic, such it is with Horowitz.  It is a sort of built in modus operandi that they just can’t psychologically shake.  And he preaches to a choir of screeching Rightwing Degenerates, I call them the RDs and his “The Professors…” diatribe is yeah at least seven years old.  We professors, or former professors, emeriti who often return for part-time work, slough him off like snot.  Many campuses are very savvy to his depravity and factor that into academic freedom.  I was once the target and know that campuses come to the defense of their faculty.  Now maybe not all do, but there are those that do. To my mind, Horowitz and all of his cronies are perverse reprobates and ought to be squashed like the filthy bugs they are and that is probably casting aspersions to filty bugs.

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By LWM, December 18, 2007 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry on 12/17 at 7:31 pm

I see your using the same tactics as Lilmamzer, Lefty and ITW by inferring statements one did not write i.e. putting words in ones mouth and casting aspersions on others as being anti semite, or racist in your case, if they support someone or something you don’t.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2798.htm

Then the clueless fascist links to TBRNEWS again.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barnes_Review

What a moron.  No wonder you lost WWII.

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By cann4ing, December 18, 2007 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena, Jaki and Shenonymous:  Comparison to Richard Evans’ “The Coming of the Third Reich” provides a disturbing historical precendent where the National Socialist German League, in addition to calling for a reduction of overcrowing in lectures through the removal of Jewish students, sought the “dismissal of pacifist professors, the creation of new chairs in subjects like Racial Studies and Military Science, and the harnessing of universities to the national interest, away from the pursuit of knowledge as an end in itself.”  (Compare this to Noam Chomsky’s reference in “Failed States” to an October 2003 bill which the U.S. House of Representatives “unanimously passed…that could require university international studies departments to show more support for American foreign policy or risk their federal funding.”

David Horowitz, author of “The Professors: The 101 Most Dangerous Academics in America” is a former Marxist-Lenenist turned right-wing intellectual who, in his earlier polemic, “The Art of Political War” (a Karl Rove endorsed copy was given to every Republican member of Congress for the 2000 election) ascribed to the Leninist doctrine that in “political conflicts, the goal is not to refute your opponent’s argument, but to wipe him from the face of the earth,” now heads an organization labeled “Students for Academic Freedom” (SAF).  At the SAF Web site, Horwitz, who in no sense could be described as a “student,” takes the position that a professor has no right to criticize the war in Iraq or President Bush unless the subject of the class is war or contemporary American presidents.  He contends that such offending remarks are a violation of the student’s right to academic freedom—a rather Orwellian twist that suggests that the radical right has the “freedom” to suppress all forms of thought, speech and expression that the far right feels should not be heard whereas the basic concept behind Academic Freedom involves the free flow of information sans outside political interference and censorship so as to maximize the diversity of thought and study.

SAF encourages students to report the perceived transgressions of any professors who dare to speak out.  In an apparent effort to join the Horowitz thought police, a right wing alumni group at UCLA offered students $100 per class to supply notes and tapes of professures who used lecture time to press positions against Bush, the military or multi-national corporations.  According to a Feb. 2006 Nation article, “UCLA’s Dirty Thirty,” “Horowitz and his allies seek to impose external political control over central educational functions like curriculums, hiring and firing, and teaching methods.”  And as revealed by Media Matters, Horowitz’s critique has by no means been limited to what is said “inside” the classroom.

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By Jaki, December 18, 2007 at 1:32 am Link to this comment

Cyrena…P.S.  Shuddering seems to be on the menu these days, not just about Ron Paul.  Just thinking of ANY of the Repugnicans.  I mean, Huckabee?  Guiliani?  Romney?  McCain?

I heard Romney say today that “Freedom requires religion and religion requires freedom.”  Requires?????  (shudder shudder puke)

I sure hope there is a turn-around in the next election, but I am convinced that the ballot is going to be the key, having heard so much these days about how the plan is already in the works to once again sabotage the voting process.

We probably need UN supervision.  In fact, we should insist on outside help.  (If we get that far.)

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By Jaki, December 18, 2007 at 1:18 am Link to this comment

#120908 by cyrena on 12/17 at 10:09 pm

Cyrena…The 60s were the best years of my life…the most politicizing, the most exciting, some of the most creative and important in the formation of my lifetime interests, and some of the most dangerous.  It was my destiny to be of the age I was then and to be in the place I was.  It was also created by a series of weird “happenstances” and “coincidences” I won’t go into here.  But it is quite a story.

My last response was only meant to be cautionary to those who do resistance work (not for sympathy).  Agents, provocateurs, and weak-minded humans who can’t stand women, or anyone of color, who take strong stands they don’t like, are everywhere.  You have to be very grounded in what you do to not be taken off in the wrong direction by the devious who attack, spy, provoke, and rat (not to mention suck energy, such as some on these blogs do).  But of course you already know this.

In reference to your comment about being paranoid, an old friend of mine (a comedic muckraker), who often was VERY, and even flipped out around it at times, was fond of saying, “Even paranoids have REAL ENEMIES.” 

But if we are committed to revolutionary change in this world, we do what we have to do.  As another inspiration of mine, Joseph Campbell, related in conversation with Michael Toms in the book, “An Open Life,” (and this is my paraphrase):  we have to respect the life we’ve got to lead and make it our business to not get crucified in the process.

A little caution goes a long way.  Too much paralyzes or takes you over the edge.

I think it was Shenonymous who referred to you as a “young person,” though I did call you “dear” in my response.  It was intended as an endearing remark.  I was aware that you had said you were in industry for over 20 years, so I knew you were not the typical college age.  Kudos to you for returning to school to pursue something you love.  You will be great at it.  You have such fire and guts.  And a great head on your shoulders combined with a lot of feet to the fire experiences.  All of which will serve you in the inspiration of your students.

Am I correct in my understanding that people who write on these blogs have a way to communicate directly with others by email?  As I have said before, I am new to this, but someone told me there is that option, if both consent.  If so, you are welcome to contact me personally.

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By Shenonymous, December 18, 2007 at 12:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena, rising stars are an illusion.  Wisdom comes with age and so do the best wines.  Just listen to George Carlin.  We know the failings of Ron Paul,

Regardless of whether or not he mentions his religious views on the campaign trail, Ron Paul, as a Congressman, votes against the separation of church and state and wants to impose his religion, Christianity, on the schools by supporting organized prayer in public schools and he votes to allow churches to provide welfare services.  Why should churches be involved in the welfare of American citizens at all?  There is always a catch 22 by the churches, it is built into their whole reason for existence, to be missionaries for their religion.  The churches ought not to be put in to the position to make millions and millions of dollars by providing so-called welfare to the people of America.  And who then would say exactly what that welfare would be?  The churches?  Get real.

The fallacy with PH’s protestation is that if the right to choose included her “priest” what do you think the fu*king priest would say?  Yeah, go have an abortion?  Sure.  Don’t be ridiculous with your stripe of right to choose.  The right to choose is a woman’s right and no bloody doctor, and certainly not a fu*king priest’s. 

And another thing, do you live in the UNITED states of America?  Sounds like you don’t really like democracy when you enjoy the National Parks and the forestry roads program(see National Quality Award. Highway Teams Win National Quality Award). US govt also funded age-related research going on in Utah; Education programs from primary schools to Universities are funded by US; HEAT is a federally funded program that helps qualified income-eligible individuals pay their utility bills; Utah’s immunization program is funded by a line item on the US settlement of the Master Settlement Agreement for tobacco;  I propose that all federal dollars that go to Utah be taken away so that PH can have his state’s brand of “democracy.”  Let the separate people of Utah pay for everything themselves.

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By cyrena, December 17, 2007 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

Hi Jaki, (and all)

I hate to hear what happened to you in your tenure within academia in California, back in those days. Seriously, I do. I remember it well myself, though I was young at the time. I was in fact making my rounds through the UC system in the early 70’s, Santa Cruz, Santa Barbara, and UCLA. And, even then, things were bad. I had a similar harrowing experience at a summer program at Santa Cruz, while I was still technically in high school. It was really my first time at being targeted for my race as well as my gender. It was an unsophisticated attempt to do me harm, which is really the only reason it failed. Otherwise, I might now just be one of the many statistics of the times back then.

But, I said all of that to say that my 27+ years in corporate America weren’t a whole lot different. I mean, I mentioned the rat race, but that alone wouldn’t have caused me to ‘eject’ or (more truthfully) BE ‘ejected’, (and accept it) if not for all of the other similar hazards and attacks that you’ve experienced yourself. Far too numerous to mention, and some just better put aside, (at least for now) if only because some of that stuff is recent enough to have me still paranoid about posting much of it on a public forum. And, I can’t even apologize for my paranoia, because it has a real credible foundation. Just better to be safe then renditioned and/or tortured. (at least to the extent that one CAN be safe in these times, without spending their life ‘underground’).

That said, in my return to academia 4 years ago, I recognized the same political and personal lynching that occurs within the corporate structure, and in some cases, it’s hardly different than what I encountered in the long years of my career in the commercial aviation industry. (I even had some incidents similar to yours down in San Diego). What we’ve seen happen to Norman Finkelstein and Ward Churchill are not isolated incidents, though they are certainly more noticeable to us, because of their outstanding contributions. (they too, are on the neoconners list of the 100 most dangerous professors). So, it’s awful everywhere we look. I don’t think there’s any place that is exempt from it now, unless we’re talking about just pitching a tent and living on the beach, with just the fish and the birds for company. I’m already real close to that now, and whose to say it won’t happen anyway?

So, this time around, the tenure stuff isn’t critically important. Actually, it’s not important at all. Mostly it’s just a matter of me finally working at something that I actually ENJOY, (though I also enjoyed my work in the aviation industry) without the corporate politics and hassles that come with the fierce competition. IOW, I don’t need to get rich. I just need to be able to take care of myself in modest fashion. (Good thing, eh? Even that could seem like grandiose expectations in these times we live in today.) Besides, nobody ever got wealthy from teaching or doing research, and I don’t believe that anyone going into it should expect that. So, while I love it when you all call me the “young Cyrena” (Ernest and Shenonymous delight me with that) I’m actually not. At my age, most of the rising stars around here (whether faculty or students) are younger than I, and so I enjoy just providing some backup and support for them. It’s allowed me to sort of re-group, and recover from the terror-filled experiences of my time in the corporate jungle.

So, all things considered, we just take it one day at a time, and I try to keep my eye on a few of the better spots on the beach, should it come to that. If I hit the lottery, (which could be difficult since I don’t generally play it) a nice little boat would come in handy as a residence and a get-away vehicle in case something the likes of Ron Paul were ever to become a reality.

I shudder at the thought.

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By PatrickHenry, December 17, 2007 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

#120862 by cyrena

It would seem that alot of people disagree with your all knowing insight on Ron Paul.

You said: “I’m sorry the salaries of those black folks disturbs you so much”.

Where did that come from?  I could care less. 

I see your using the same tactics as Lilmamzer, Lefty and ITW by inferring statements one did not write i.e. putting words in ones mouth and casting aspersions on others as being anti semite, or racist in your case, if they support someone or something you don’t. 

OK, You contribute money to the NAACP which Jesse gives to his mistress or did she sue him for it? I can’t remember and don’t care.  Al Sharpton sensationalizes racism, it helps his contributions when sad events like Tawana Brawley and the Jena six occur.  Why isn’t Sharpton leading the protest against the nigga and ho hip hop music producers? I guess there’s no money in it for him.

You said “(like the posting of some Hillary event that may or may not have occurred 30+ years ago).”

Was she with you Cyrena? inquiring minds want to know.

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2798.htm

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By cyrena, December 17, 2007 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Well PH,

On the name calling of the racist thing, (quite laughable that you would suggest that of me…several who know me well did get quite a chuckle from it) you’ve finally gotten around to giving some important clues about your ideology in this respect. You say you are 1st generation of Norwegian immigrants, and you apparently aren’t very old. That explains much. It means you don’t have a clue to anything of how the American society and political system came to be, probably because you don’t wanna know.


So, there we have it. You have no historical context upon which to draw any of your understandings, and that explains it. Your racism is obviously ingrained, (and displays in all of your posts) so you don’t even seem to realize that you have it. Still, we’ll just let it stand. It is what it is.  You focus your petty gripes on non-profit organizations, and don’t seem to blink an eye at where those 9+ trillion dollars have actually gone. Yours is a small, trite, and petty mentality.

So, YOU can keep up with whatever monies that Jesse Jackson’s mistress may have received, because all I can say is, she sure didn’t give ME any of it. And, in my membership in the NAACP, it’s been ME giving THEM money, not the other way around.

It’s the same with your comments on Al Sharpton. You claim you don’t like him because he creates racial conflicts “where they don’t exist”. What bullshit!! I don’t particularly like his ‘in your face style’, and the Rev title doesn’t suit him, (at least not for me) but to suggest that he ‘creates’ racial conflicts where they don’t exist, is about as stupid as it gets. If they didn’t EXIST moron, he wouldn’t have a platform!

Amazingly, this many years after the fact, a student relayed the same sentiment that her father had about Martin Luther King, Jr. back in the days of the CRM. He had told her and her siblings that he (MLK) was nothing more than a “troublemaker” just stirring stuff up. (they’re from Florida, which is still very Jim Crow in many areas, even today). So, as you see, ignorance is passed on from generation to generation, even among those who ‘immigrated’ here many generations ago.

Regardless of where you or your ancestors come from, YOU live in the US now, so it might not be a bad idea to get with the program. I’m sorry the salaries of those black folks disturbs you so much, but those represent less than a handful of cooper pennies compared to what’s actually being “stolen” from you.

So, stick with the tabloids if that’s what you prefer, (like the posting of some Hillary event that may or may not have occurred 30+ years ago) but the rest of us have larger concerns. Most of us have been around long enough, (and have observed the likes of Ron Paul for long enough) to know what a danger he would be to our nation and to our society as a whole. And, that’s what we claimed to be in our Constitution. The UNITED states of America.

Now if you don’t like that, I COULD suggest that you go back to Norway, and take Ron Paul with you. He could try to hook you right up with one of those ‘faith based” lobbies that he’d love to set up for you. Yep, the church stuff that you actually acknowledge as a problem. Ron Paul doesn’t mention much about his own religious zealotry on the ‘campaign trail’, but for anyone whose paid attention in the past 2 decades, he’s very much of a holly roller himself.

But ALAS, it wouldn’t work, because the Norwegians these days are a highly socialized economy, pretty much on the order as neighbor Sweden. Both seem to recognize the value of providing for their society as a whole, and not as divided and unequal parts. So, they’d run your asses out of there in a heartbeat; Maybe even quicker than a Muslim could try to sell you a bean pie.

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By Jaki, December 17, 2007 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment

#120735 by Ernest Canning on 12/17 at 8:42 am
Well said (as usual), Ernest, on the issue of States’ Rights as not only a way to protect corporations (who can move at will, it seems, from place to place for their headquarters and plant(ation)s—where and when it benefits them), and a way for Ron Paul to dodge what are in fact National Issues, and it is also a way for States to enact repressive legislation on their own that affect the individuals who live there.  Witness the South Dakota attempt re Choice.

#120697 by PatrickHenry on 12/17 at 3:56 am
Patrick Henry… I appreciate your sentiments that a woman’s right to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy is between herself, her medical resource, and whomever she chooses to share that personal matter with.  But it is also a Constitutional Issue—The Right to Privacy—and, therefore, a National One. States cannot and should not be able to supercede or override that. 

If the issue of choice AND access to the means to carry out that choice, safely, competently, and within reasonable financial boundaries, were handed over to States, this would be a violation of not only The Constitution, but The Supreme Court’s validation of the Right to Choose vis a vis Roe v. Wade. 

This would, in keeping with your argument about California making decisions that might not be what Utahans would prefer, make it necessary for women in
states who become Anti-Choice to travel to other states to get the medical care they need.  This places an undue burden on poor and working women and will end up in needless deaths due to self-inflicted or unsafe abortions made available closer to home.
Prior to Roe v. Wade, over 100,000 women a year in the U.S. alone died from botched abortions.

You cannot be pro-choice and supportive of the lives of women and support States’ Rights.

As Ernest has pointed out, there are also many other
dangers to this kind of thinking.

Please do give this serious consideration.  Otherwise, I appreciate some of your comments and sometimes agree with you.

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By cann4ing, December 17, 2007 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

Gee, PH you might ask what kind of democracy is it when a majority of a nine member judicial body could dictate an end to apartheid in education in a 1954.  Spare me the states rights gibberish.  We live in a “nation.”  While each state is free to improve on those issues that require a national solution, it is the federal law which sets the baseline standard below which no state should fall.  Whether we deal with educational opportunity, protecting the environment, labor standards or health care of our people, we deal with matters that affect us as a nation and, as such, can best be resolved by “national” legislation.

States rights is a convenient dodge for protecting corporate rights; a means for a “national candidate” (Ron Paul) to evade confronting the fundamental issues of the day head on.

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By PatrickHenry, December 17, 2007 at 4:56 am Link to this comment

re: #120634 by Ernest Canning

What kind of democracy is it when residents of a populated state like California can dictate laws which affect and are against the wishes of residents of another more conservative state such as Utah.  This covers a wide range of issues from growing hemp to corporate crime.

Don’t get me wrong I believe a woman has a right to choose but it should be between her doctor, priest and or conscience.  I just don’t believe that this is the business of federal govenment, which best serves the citizens of the U.S. by ensuring the bill of rights is followed as Kennedy demonstrated in Alabama in the 60’s.

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By Shenonymous, December 16, 2007 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

Noooooo, Leefeller, Texas needs to annex Mexico, after all, we have nearly bought it anyway with all the American dollars that have gone and keeps going there.

Jaki, you made my day, I would be proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you anywhere!  With the young Cyrena too!  I will raise my glass on the 22nd and toast you two, f’sure.

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By Jaki, December 16, 2007 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment

Greetings Shenonymous and Cyrena…We have much in common and I am grateful to be in your company on this blog, and for your support and the information you pass along—to me and others—like the sites on Solstice.  I also do not celebrate Christmas.  I am non-religious, and am spiritually and psychicly tuned in to The Earth. 

I am most strongly drawn to the possibility that The Earth is a fully conscious Being, with unfathomable intelligence from which we all draw our own particular and unique creativity.  As I withdraw from the “normal” reality’s insistence on conformity and commercialism, and tune in on a moment by moment basis to what surrounds me in my home environment (rural, natural, full of flora and fauna), I hear The Earth’s messages more clearly, including in my dreams.

Before becoming a therapist, which I was for many years, I was in academia.  As a member of the collective that formed the first Women’s Studies Program in the country (at San Diego State), 1968-69.  I was selected (by the collective, and approved by the University administration—which shocked me, actually) to head the program and guide it through it’s first year (1970). 

Interestingly, because I was also among a small handful of instructors who publicly stood against the VietNam War, including occupying the Admin. Bldg. for more than a week and organizing anti-war rallies, I was told that my days at the university were numbered because of my political activity. 

During this period also, my life was threatened, my house and car were entered and damaged, my cats were killed, and I was told by a male member of the faculty, who presented himself allegedly as a “leftist,” that if I didn’t shut up about Women’s Liberation, he would “cut my tongue out.”  This was a serious threat made in the middle of the night by phone.

Frankly, I was always suspicious of this man as being an agent of the government.  And there were many more who infiltrated the left and the Women’s Movement.  In fact, the FBI recruited over 600 women to do the latter during the late 60s.  Many were exposed, but not until they did damage.

A series of events directed me to plan my exit and move on to another university to work on a Ph.D., where I also engaged in the creation of a Women’s Studies Program.  After deciding that a career in academia was not the place for this free spirit, I left to become a therapist.  Too much bureaucratic BS, backstabbing, wasted energy in endless committees, and other tedium that destroyed my interest in the “life of the mind” and teaching, as constrained by that institution. 

By the way, Cyrena, you mentioned you are hoping to become a professor, having gotten out of the “corporate rat race.”  Well, dear, most of the halls of learning are corporate and/or governmental, and becoming more so.  When you get on the tenure track, you will find it more and more difficult to speak your mind (witness Ward Churchill at Colorado).  But good luck to you.  It is important to do the best you can to influence young minds and I know of many who have been successful in providing alternative points of view to our present system from within it.  There are, however, costs…but I won’t go into those now.

I plan to raise my glass to The Mother of Us All on December 22 and will include you both, as well as the many courageous men and women who speak truth to power on this blog and elsewhere, in my thoughts.

Happy Winter Solstice!

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By Leefeller, December 16, 2007 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment

PH,

Being first generation from Norway, did you leave because of Socialism or the Health Care Program?


Ron Paul lost me when he dumped womens rights, this was before I was even aware of his stand on impeachment.  It is interesting, I may agree with you on states rights to a degree, and I also believe we should give Texas back to Mexico.

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By cann4ing, December 16, 2007 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, PH, but punting on the issue of health care by delegating it to the states is a cop out, just as it would be to suggest that we leave it to the states to individually determine whether there should be equal opportunity in education or in a women’s right to choose.  The health of a nation’s people is a national concern, and so too, should be the solution.  There is only one presidential candidate who offers that solution—one which would bring out nation in line with that of every other industrialized nation on the planet, and that presidential candidate is most certainly “not” Mr. Paul.  It is Dennis Kucinich.

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By PatrickHenry, December 16, 2007 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

re: #120582 by Ernest Canning

I have stated previously on other posts about my disapointment with Ron Pauls decision to shelve impeachment and have e-mailed him indicating such.

I believe its the states responsibility to its residents to ensure social medicine, schools, taxation of corporations who reside and sell products within it.  It is easier for we as citizens to control our own legislatures at a local level than have other states representatives force their positions upon us at the congressional level simply because their member is senior or has the ability to shelve an issue.  Pelosi is a case in point.

I for one do not believe in democratic socialism at the federal level.

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By Shenonymous, December 16, 2007 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

It’s Occam’s Razor sweetie, and Paul’s positions have already been smote on this forum many times, and I have been one of the posters. We don’t re-post at the pleasure of an inert mind. You do the research, lazy one.  And wisdom is in the third eye of the beholder.

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By cann4ing, December 16, 2007 at 11:19 am Link to this comment

The core problem with Ron Paul and the Cato Institute, and there are many, is that he and they subscribe to a libertarian philosophy that ignores that the principle problems today arise from the greed and power of the corporation.  The problem is not “government” per se but government as captive of the corporate and private interest at the expense of res publica.

The current sorry state of U.S. health care is but one classic example of what happens when the private interest is placed before the common good.

In a truly democratic society, government embodies the words of Abraham Lincoln, “of the people, by the people and for the people.”  It is a government that provides a level of democratic socialism, not a government that “governs least” by standing on the sidelines while wealth schemes toward greater wealth and greater power.  Libertarian philosophy would cripple government as a tool for shielding the vast majority—the working and middle class—against the excesses of corporate greed.  That, more than anything else, is why Ron Paul would make a singularly horrific choice for President even though he opposes the war in Iraq.

Finally, PH, I am not interested in Ron Paul’s sophistries used to justify his vote to table impeachment.  The Cheney-led fascist cabal provides a clear and present danger to the very survival of our constitutional democracy and the rule of law.  With Cheney now plotting war with Iran, the likely blowback, executive orders in place that portend to a declaration of a national emergency in the event of a new terrorist incident on U.S. soil leading to martial law, the suspension of the constitution and Congress, and indefinite postponement of the Nov. 2008 elections, impeachment may be the last legal means we have to preserve our constitutional democracy.  Paul’s vote to table was nothing less than a violation of the solemn oath he took to support and defend the constitution.

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By PatrickHenry, December 16, 2007 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

re: #120574 by Shenonymous

Then do your own research, post them and explain your position on why you think Ron Pauls’s positions are wrong.  It’s easy to get on someone elses band wagon espousing unsubstantiated innuendo.

I guess Occums’ razor can apply to ducks.

I’ll bet your very smart, but I can see your none too wise.

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By Shenonymous, December 16, 2007 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

One more thing…The thing about “proving” someone’s evil intent is that it is only available by the words in speeches they make and affiliations they have.  If a man walks like duck, looks like a duck, smells like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then we might easily and reasonably assume he is a duck.

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By Shenonymous, December 16, 2007 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

Good gawd, ph or PH, uh that stands also for pondus hydrogenii which means “potential hydrogen,”  but there are about 68 abbreviations and acronyms for PH.  But this is the one I’ve selected that seems to most fit your profile as a measure of acidity.  It also stands for Pantyhose.  What would you know about advanced degrees (which I do have, BTW) as you never demonstrate anything further than a sophomoric attempt in your commentaries.

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By PatrickHenry, December 16, 2007 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

re: #120551 by Shenonymous

Actually, I would prefer a parlimentary form of government where minority parties would get representation based on the percentages who vote for them.  It is truely more democratic than our system.

The only account of Ron Pauls unacceptibility comes from you and few others and is based on your own biased opinions, as I have asked Cyrena, if you have proof of Ron Pauls evil intent, present it.

Recuring warts, gerbils ass, morons, your so called advanced education is showing.

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By PatrickHenry, December 16, 2007 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

re: #120510 by cyrena

I am honored by you 3 post diatribe, however I do feel you are incorrect or ignorant of several of the points I was attempting to make.

The point I was attempting to make about the 9+ trillion amount was:

1. That amongst all the candidates Ron Paul is the most austere in his spending habits.

2.  Most Americans are financially responsible and do not want many of the social and military spending programs which are done without their consent and especially if debt is incurred providing them.

3.  The connection with that paragraph and race based lobbies is in your mind.

The textbook definition of a lobby is: the action or the group used to influence a viewpoint to politicians.  Yes, the NAACP is a lobby.  I know the base salaries of these people is taxed, but this is after the perks, lunches, dinner parties, clothing, transportation, gas, all the cost which are incurred in non-profit activities.  It burns me that with all the money being exchanged they are exempt from property taxes, which pays for the local schools, trash pickup, fire and police and causes the taxes for the surrounding area to rise.

I don’t believe in tax exempt non profits as they are doing somebodies business, churches especially.

BTW, your obvious racial slight of “Think of it as a repercussion of the sins of your fathers”. doesn’t apply to me.  I’m a first born American of Norwegian immigrants. The last slavery my “people” endorsed was against the English a thousand or so years ago.

Jesse Jackson did alot of good work in his past and paid taxes.  Didn’t his mistress recieve a million dollars or do you remember that NAACP issue.  That was your money not mine.  I don’t support any prorace forum be it the KKK, JBS, Miss Black America, NOI or the NAACP.  When does “Advancement” of a certain race end and Supremacy begin?

Actually, you sound like a racist to me too Cyrena, as inferred by your continual reference to me as being one throughout your post albeit subtle.

Your inference that Texas doesn’t pay its fair share of taxes for the local infrastructure is directly related to the electorate located there, if they keep voting for the same pandering politicians, nothing will happen.

You state that you will vote for Kucinich, so will I, if he becomes availible. Kucinich votes reflect Ron Paul’s on many of the issues. 

You said “Fortunately, Ron Paul doesn’t stand a chance, so we can disregard him”.  I think your wrong and We’ll see about that.

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By Shenonymous, December 16, 2007 at 9:04 am Link to this comment

Well I guess we could line the lobbyists up against a wall and shoot them with Conservative Yankee’s guns that he enjoys polishing while watching TV (see the forum on the Pope).

There is something sinister afoot.  If you want to change the disease that is in Wasington DC, you have to get rid of the virus called Republicans.  If lobbies get to the congressmen/women it isn’t a new phenomenon.  It’s been around at least since Dickie baby and most likely before only under a different euphemism.  Democrats are not immune either.  Pick your poison.

Patrick Henry is acting like a wart, coming back over and over again to try to dispel what has already been pointed out about the unacceptability of Ron Paul.  Seems like the ground has been covered a couple of times on this forum

You morons still think Ron Paul has even a gerbil’s ass chance at getting the Republican nomination, don’t hold your breath, or maybe you should and asphyxiate.

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By cyrena, December 16, 2007 at 1:26 am Link to this comment

Part 1 re:#120396 by PatrickHenry

•  If you haven’t read the papers lately our Country is 9+ trillion in debt and growing daily.

I was aware. Now, how did we get to that PatrickHenry? Is that a result of ‘over-taxation’ and race-based lobbies as well? I ask because that seems to be your real pet peeve. Did we sort of just fall 9+ trillion in the hole overnight? And, is it because of over-taxation of some, and your perceived ‘non-profit’ benefits of others?

•  I live and work in Washington, DC area and they are all lobbies to me.  They are non profit, make six or seven figure salaries and pay no taxes for the city services they use.

This is where I’m only being honest in pointing out what are clearly biases of your ideological agenda, or maybe just because of your apparent ‘confusion’. What are you talking about here? You talk about ‘lobbies’ that are ‘non-profit.’ Now, I’ve already said that the NAACP is not a lobby, but it IS a non-profit organization, and it did not originate on the efforts of black folks alone. As a matter of fact, there were a number of Jewish activists involved in the early formation, not to mention regular old white folks. It was organized as any other group based on an interested in obtaining some form of social-political-economic equality. IE, The National Association for the Advancement of Colored Peoples. Then, in the very same sentence, you say ‘they’ make six or seven figure SALARIES, and pay no taxes for the city services they use.

WHO makes the 6 or 7 figures? People working for the NAACP? And, if they do, rest assured that these INDIVIDUALS are paying income taxes on their salaries, as well as the city services they use at their residences. So, if a non-profit isn’t paying for city services, then THAT would be their building structures, and that’s it. So, the comparison between the individual salaries of the NAACP employees, and the ORGANIZATION that doesn’t pay taxes for the city services is where their structures are located, is a NON-CONNECTION. The fact that you would make it just proves what most of your other remarks indicate, which is that you’re an uninformed ideologue with a race biased chip on your shoulder.

The Nation of Islam, yes…I’m very familiar with that organization. It’s not a lobby either. It’s like the JBS, but the JBS is far more secret and subtle in their racism. (which might be why you’ve never met any in your travels) Actually, you’ve probably met plenty, (JBS’ers) but just like the KKK, you wouldn’t recognize them without their sheets and hats on.

No doubt you see more of the NOI as a result of living and working in DC. Still, we’re not talking about any massive organization (they used to be far more active) representing a race based bias, that claims genetically black SUPERIORITY. They just don’t like white people. What can I say? It’s pretty impossible to deny the 400 year history of social-economic and political oppression visited upon ALL people of color, by the dominant white culture. So, this very tiny fraction of the population claims the white man is the devil. And..GW claims he gets instructions from God and his gastrointestinal system. Help me find a difference here, besides the effect on the ENTIRE population of ‘we the people”.

Meantime, just get over it. Think of it as a repercussion of the sins of your fathers. Besides, it’s not like they have an iota of political control, which is exactly why they exist and sell pies and newspapers, and rant against the white devil.

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By cyrena, December 16, 2007 at 1:24 am Link to this comment

Part 2 re: #120396 by PatrickHenry

On the pies and newspapers; I love the pies, have no use for the paper, since I don’t see any major difference between the Final Call, the Book of Mormon, the publications of the Aryan Brotherhood, or the Old Testament of the Bible. I’ve read them all at some point in time, and they say the same stuff over and over. The pies, BTW aren’t ‘moon’ pies. (though there is such a thing I believe) They’re actually bean pies, and an excellent source of protein and fiber. I make them myself from time to time, since they are quite popular with all of my white devil neighbors and colleagues. (a lot of work though).

As for Farrakahn, he has stomach cancer, which may be why you haven’t seen him around. Just so you know, your DC environment isn’t much different than many others, and you’ve apparently missed that in your multiple travels. You might check out an excellent book; “Sidewalk”, by Mitchell Duneier. That’s life in the big city, and all about survival, which is a basic human nature.

No, I’m not particularly fond of Al Sharpton myself. There was a time when Jesse Jackson did some good work. He’s old now, but as far as I know, he still pays taxes. AND, you still sound like a racist who has no potential for understanding cause and effect in the socio-economic-political atmosphere of this country, and no appreciation for history, or the facts that have created and continue to create that atmosphere.

Your response on another thread referencing the chief barbarian, “Henry Kravis is the king of private equity, the Wall Street sector that buys and bleeds companies…” The loophole that allows him to avoid paying comparative taxes on his BILLIONS, doesn’t seem to trouble you at all. This was your response:

#120288 by PatrickHenry
•  Raising taxes in an election year. Just when you didn’t think the congress couldn’t be more popular.

Can you help us figure out how that connection works? Tax loopholes for the ULTRA-MEGA BILLIONAIRES, and raising taxes in an election year? (not that they have raised taxes, nor does the article suggest it) Rather, they continue to reduce taxes for the ultra wealthy, and maintain these loopholes. What’s up with the electrical neurons in your brain?

As for my disparaging and (seemingly) derogatory remarks about Ron Paul; he’s earned them. Another case of…”it is what it is.” I point them out to those who obviously have no capabilities for assessing the fact that Ron Paul’s actions do not match his political rhetoric. He appeals to you and others because he CLAIMS to support the Constitution. For those without a real or complete knowledge of the Constitution, and who have failed to pay any attention to his Congressional record, it sounds just spiffy. You say, Oh Goody! We can go back to the Constitution, and best of all, we won’t have to pay taxes. We’ll just privatize ourselves, and form our own special societies, (ie, the JBS, KKK) and then we don’t have to have our taxes spent on those Jews, Blacks, Asians, Indians, or any of those other non-whites who YOU think don’t pay taxes. Never mind the ones who REALLY aren’t paying taxes, such as the multibillionaires (private equity) and the corps, and the military industrial complex.

And yes, there IS that 1st Amendment, but you have to keep reading, (because it isn’t the only Amendment in the Constitution) if you want to live in some measure of what the Constitution represents. It also claims to represent and call for equality among the population, and I don’t think you’re nearly so keen on that.
TBC

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By cyrena, December 16, 2007 at 1:22 am Link to this comment

Part 3 re:#120396 by PatrickHenry

So, my OWN assessment of Ron Paul is based on more than one myopic ideological notion. Rather, it’s based on what Ron Paul had said, most importantly on the Congressional record, and there’s a lot to look at. (again, the action doesn’t match the campaign rhetoric) I combine that with my own comprehension of the ENTIRE Constitution; not one Amendment, or a few sentences here and there, taken out of context with, or in ignorance of, the rest. Just THAT - is enough to give any individual of reasonable intelligence the clear view. I have an added ‘advantage’ (if one can call it that) of having actually been a long term resident in a local/state government like the one that Ron Paul advocates. (Texas does not assess a state income tax for individuals or corporations – NO state income tax in Texas, period). As a result, standard public services are limited or non-existent. That means transportation, (roads, mass public transit, traffic regulation). Education is another disaster. It is highly unequal, as it is dependant on property taxes, so the wealthy areas have decent schools, and the poor areas have shitty schools (if any), and what’s left of the middle class access is pretty shitty as well, because of the tendency to remain so backward in technology and ideology.

The same goes for the overall condition of the environment there. Noxious, vile, and in constant decline from the abuses of corporations that do tremendous damage to the natural resources, while in the process of stealing those same resources, and selling them back to you at inflated prices. (consider oil). Since there is no income tax required by these corps on their grotesquely obscene profits, nothing goes back into the state’s economy, to provide for any sort of distribution of public services. And since there is no regulation, there is massive destruction to the public sphere in the process. The infrastructure is dilapidated, and of course, there are no public funds to manage that either. Roads or bridges that do operate are maintained by tolls. IOW, it’s all private. No money; you can’t get across the bridge, or access that road. And, that’s exactly the way RP and his cronies want it. If not, it wouldn’t be that way. He’s been a member of Congress for 10 terms. Why hasn’t he fixed it?

Meantime, special interest groups, (you call lobbies) form -AS A RESULT- of these centuries’ worth of inequalities. Too bad conditions have required the need for them, because I admit that some of them are totally out of control, and way beyond the scope of their original intention. The largest and most destructive of them are hardly race based. The most destructive are those that have rendered us a nation controlled and economically enslaved by an oligarchy. (it’s just been the case with the black population for far, far longer) And if you think that RP has any power over Halliburton, Bechtel, or any part of Big Oil and Big Pharma, you’re either ignorant or naïve. Enron was/is in RP’s backyard. Do you REALLY think he didn’t have a clue? If not, he’s as dumb as you are. Presidential material?

Fortunately, Ron Paul doesn’t stand a chance, so we can disregard him. But, if you like what he has in mind, move to TX. It’s a big space, and it might be a workable consideration to corral all of your types into one area. You can even secede from the Union and name him as Prez. But please understand that you can’t expect the rest of us to willingly subject ourselves to such an arrangement, by actually VOTING for the guy.

It’s the same reason he doesn’t get any media attention, which is what kicked this discussion off. Without media attention, his supporters have resorted to revival style tactics, perpetrated secretly under the cover of darkness, (not unlike the KKK of old) which is exactly what they did in my own community last month. So, if I didn’t like him much before, I sure as hell don’t like him any better now.

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By Leefeller, December 15, 2007 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

Right on, my pet peeve at least one of the main ones is lobbies.  Undue influence on our representatives by lobbies may be the biggest problem we have in our government.  It is a most distasteful form of fraternization.

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By Shenonymous, December 15, 2007 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

Jaki and Cyrena, et al

If you are interested in Al Gore, who probably won’t be drafted no matter what, but stranger things have happened, here is the Draft Campaign web address.
http://www.algore.org/user
Gore is number one on the Blind-Bio Poll, with Clinton and Obama 2nd and 3rd, Edwards is 4th with 10% support.  But in the Democracy for America (DFA) poll, he was #1, Edwards was #2 and Kucinich as #3.  I think this one is more reflective of the situation, but just my irrational opinion. 

At least Kucinich got into the charts!  And Edwards is showing a surprising popularity.  It is going to be one heck of an election. 

My daughter studied with Angela Davis at San Francisco State for two semesters.  It changed her whole life, for the better since she had grown up with a Southern California Orange County mind set, even with a progressive freethinker like her mom (me).  It’s hard to fight the social tides.  Women are making inroads, but there is still the mountain of chauvinistic men to get over.  The patronizing is what gets me all riled up.  We, women, are on an inexorable and critical path, not only here in western civilization but the whole world.  We must listen to the likes of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and carry the torch for her and other women as well.

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By cann4ing, December 15, 2007 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

Precisely, Cyrena.  I don’t have a daughter, but if I did, I would tell her to “never” let a man define who she is.  Think for yourself.

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By PatrickHenry, December 15, 2007 at 10:26 am Link to this comment

re: #120307 by Ernest Canning

I don’t have any interaction with the NAACP or the JBS so yes, they are just another lobby to me.

Comparing the Hitler youth to the Boy Scouts?  Well don’t blame the children for the sins of the parents.  I’m sure the kids in the Hitler youth didn’t see anything wrong with it because it was all they knew.

I also believe government has no business in the affairs of any lobby where people are free to join based on their beliefs or proclivities, as long as no capital crimes are committed, AIPAC included.  I’m sure those members of NORML sit around and smoke pot, I don’t deny them that right, as long as no one gets hurt.

Lobbies, however as a whole should not be allowed to contribute to candidates and if they do they should loose their tax exempt status.  If they are caught giving their members each $2300 so the members can contibute to a particular candidate they should be fined and lose their tax exempt status.

New laws being proposed such as Hate Speech and Homegrown Terror Bills will force Government into the myriad of lobbies where their programs will be appraised based on someones interpetation of these unconstitutional laws, just another step towards ending the 1st amendment.

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By PatrickHenry, December 15, 2007 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

re: #120301 by cyrena

Sorry you find my opinions ignorant and offensive,  I don’t agree with some of yours either, grow a thicker skin.

I live and work in Washington, DC area and they are all lobbies to me.  They are non profit, make six or seven figure salaries and pay no taxes for the city services they use.

I’ve heard of the JBS, although I have never met a member in my million miles of travel nor have I read much about them much in the media.  I’ve read their mission statement on their website and found it no more offensive than the ACLU.

The NAACP is a race based lobby and will give it’s endorsement for the presidental candidate it believes it has best access to regardless of who you Cyrena, personally will vote for.  I am not a fan of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who I have found create racist incidents where there were none.  Al Sharpton is as big a racist as any JBS or KKK member.

I’m sure you are familiar with the Nation of Islam? You know “death to the white devils”.  There are several members here in Washington D.C. selling moon pies and giving or selling “The Final Call” on the street corners, haven’t heard from Farrakhan lately, I’m sure he has an NAACP card too.

I live in a predominently black area and my children go to school in mostly black schools, I interact with those other parents who wish the best for their children as I do mine.  I also encounter race based name calling and blatent rascist remarks, however, you want to spin it as ethnocentric, it’s not.

On your post #120099 you write “Again, I’m not blasting him. I’m just being matter-of-fact. It’s politics, and people do read between the lines”.

Yes we do and I noticed every paragraph you write about Ron Paul has something disparaging, i.e. JBL, White Supremacist, anti semite, etc. 

Why don’t you present your evidence? 

From what I’ve read about the JBS, They support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, hence they support Ron Paul.  Maybe all those White Supremacists you imply support Ron Paul simply support his auster approach to Federally funded social programs that they would choose not to pay for.  If you haven’t read the papers lately our Country is 9+ trillion in debt and growing daily. I dont know about you but I live with a budget and would like my goverment to do the same, before during and after all the money has been paid back, timely.

I think having a Dr. No in the white house will beat our current administration, if the congress truely wants something to pass they will have to muster a two thirds majority to do it.  I find this more responsible than the rubber stamp express that has occured in the past 7 years.

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By cyrena, December 15, 2007 at 2:23 am Link to this comment

•  #120166 by Ernest Canning on 12/14 at 8:03 am
Cyrena, you are undoubtedly correct that independent women scare the shit out of dominant power, but men who admire independent women find subservient women boring.
Ernest,
Thanks so much for the reminder that there ARE ‘real men’ who admire independent women. I don’t really forget that, since I’ve been fortunate to be raised by men who admire and encourage independent women. (I’m not always sure they have a choice though, like say my dad.) I mean, what do you guys do when you’re just SURROUNDED by us? Smarter to just ‘go with the flow, eh? And you’re guaranteed to never have a dull moment!!
No but seriously, it takes equally independent and intelligent men to appreciate independent women, instead of being scared of us. (not to say that they don’t have reason to be scared of us, but their fears would be resolved if they’d just wise up).
Anyway, we all thank Providence for each other, and guys like you. I mean, where might we be otherwise? Barefoot and pregnant? Well, I’m done with the pregnancy part, but admittedly, I’m not all THAT far from barefoot. (good thing California weather allows for sandals). Still, you get my point. I don’t think we would have even gotten this far if it wasn’t for men who admire and appreciate independent women. And yes, the others can be quite boring. (the men too).
Shenonymous, I’ll do the Winter Solstice thing with ya. Just marked it on my calendar. Got plenty of wine too. Way more than I usually have on hand, but it was on sale, and I was celebrating a bit early, and really only briefly. (gotta get down to check on the folks). Speaking of which, I’m taking heart from your suggestion that the Asians are likely to come up with (even if not a ‘cure’) at least some help for the millions who suffer from Alzheimer’s. It’s so devastating as to prevent them from being able to celebrate something like the Universe in a Winter Solstice. But, I will. Thanks for letting us know.
Thanks for the picture of Franco as well. Oh yes, I do remember him. Matter of fact, now that I think about it, he looks a lot like my first ex. (except he wasn’t a black Italian..just another mixed breed). From what I hear though, he doesn’t much look like that any longer. (my first ex that is) Sort of like really HUGE and baldheaded. The baldheaded is OK, but the extreme obesity is unhealthy. Then again, it’s been over 25 years since I’ve seen him, and at least 10 since anybody reported a ‘sighting’ of him. So who knows; maybe he’s skinny again, since the last person ‘reported’ on him. It would be better for his health. Meantime, I wonder what Franco Harris is up to these days?

Yep, I liked the Steelers myself, back when I paid attention to sports. I even dated a guy that played for the Steelers, but I can’t remember his name now. (is that sad or what?) Hopefully they’ll get that cure working really fast.

OK, I’ve gotta get to my Super Gumbo now. It’s in the works.

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By cann4ing, December 15, 2007 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, Am I reading you right?  You actually compare the NAACP to the John Birch society and conclude that each is “just another lobby”?  I suppose you would have compared the Hitler Youth and the boy scouts—suggesting that each is just another organized youth group?

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By cyrena, December 15, 2007 at 12:26 am Link to this comment

#120243 by PatrickHenry

Well patrickhenry,

You’ve proven my point in that reason can never prevail over ideology in some circumstances. So, I won’t try. I can’t help but point out how offensive your ignorance is though, in comparing an organization like the NAACP to ‘just another lobby”. That really pisses me off.

And, I wouldn’t even call the JBS ‘just another lobby’, any more than the KKK was ‘just another lobby’. The KKK was just another TERRORIST organization, just like any OTHER organization driven by HATE, for another group of people. Just as the JBS.

As for ‘unsavory, black supremacist voters” you again display your ignorance. You say it as if there is a difference between ‘unsavory’ and a SUPREMACIST mentality of any group. It’s ALL “unsavory” but I’ve yet to come across or be aware of any ‘black supremacist’ group in this country.

Are there BLACK RACISTS just like there are WHITE ones? OF COURSE!! But it’s very clear that you don’t understand the difference between a group and a whole ideology/mentality that is convinced of the SUPERIORITY of the white race. And, that’s sad, because this is exactly the mentality that provided the foundation for this government. THIS is the ideology that has formulated the KKK and the JBS, and dozens upon dozens of others that have come along in the past centuries. And no, this isn’t the same as black folks, or white folks, or Indians, or Hispanics, or anybody else deciding that they don’t like another race of people, (including their own) for whatever their reasons might be. 

Are there black racists (we frequently say that are ethnocentric rather than racist, simply meaning that they prefer the company of black people rather than any others, but that’s academic) that would vote for Barack Obama, just because he’s black. Yeah, and I’ve already acknowledged that, the same way that I’ve said that a lot of people would vote for Hillary just because she’s a woman, without ever questioning the issues that are most important. And, it’s clear to me now, that you’re among those ideologues. You’ve not bothered to check out anything about Ron Paul, beyond the fact that he says he’s gonna stop the war, and AIPAC.

As for black racists voting for Obama, do you really think that’s gonna have an effect on ANYTHING, or anybody? Get real please. The black population of the US now stands at a whopping 13%. That’s really gonna make a difference, eh, even though any of them that might really fit in this ‘black racist’ category would be less than .11111% and probably don’t even vote!!

MEANTIME, we have a FAR larger percentage of FEMALE voters, and any of them with even a minimal amount of attention to the issues, knows without a doubt, that Ron Paul would be the worst thing to happen to them. Add them to the far more minimal numbers of black folks with reason, Jewish Americans with reason, Hispanic Americans with reason, (even though they may cross over in demographics) and you’ll find them ALL with a reason to vote for damn near ANYBODY other than Ron Paul, because his ideology and policies spell death to all of them. AND, WE’RE NOT SUICIDAL YET!

Oh, as a member of the NAACP, and a black female, I’m currently planning my primary vote for Kucinich. If Obama turns out to win the democratic nomination, than I would vote for him. As for OTHER members of the NAACP, I’m sure that many of them will vote for Hillary, (I know, that’s really bad, but they don’t know any better) and some will vote for Obama, and there will be other votes for some of the crazies in the religious sphere. (slave religion had a powerful impact back in the days of chattle slavery, and it hasn’t let go).

But, if they have even an inkling of what Ron Paul is about, they WON’T vote for him.

So, you wondered who I thought they would vote for, and I’m telling you, because they are NOT a ‘lobby’.

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By PatrickHenry, December 14, 2007 at 4:11 pm Link to this comment

re: #120099 by cyrena

I’m sure there are unsavory black supremacist voters who vote for Obama too, does that weaken or cast aspirsions on the candidate?

In the age of going for the throat in politics, the non-reporting of Ron Paul proves to me that his closet is relatively free of skeletons.

I went to the John Birch site out of curiosity when I read your post, just another lobby.  NAACP is a lobby too, who do you think they will support?

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By Shenonymous, December 14, 2007 at 11:17 am Link to this comment

There are a lot of folks who post here that do not celebrate Xmas for some reason or another.  I don’t because I am atheist.  I hope that doesn’t put anyone off but if it does, sorry, life is a bitch, then you die.

What I propose is something I have invited a few others to participate in and that is to celebrate the universe, the planet Earth, and yourself, your consciousness by jubilating in the Winter Solstice.  What some of us are doing is on December 21 or 22, depending on where you are at in the world, the solstice happens, we will raise a toast to remember the love we have of the universe, the Earth, others, and of course, ourselves.  If you don’t know what the solstice is, I am directing you to a couple of websites that explains it much better than I could ever. 

http://www.candlegrove.com/solstice.html

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/wintersolstice1.html

Some of it refers to your regular variety religious holiday associations, and pagan events.  For me none of these are interesting as there are the perennial selling efforts that is anathema to my mind.  And I do not subscribe to any religious order of any stripe.  But I do have always in my consciousness the wonderful experience I am having with this life I have found myself in and the lovely people I have had the pleasure to learn of and some even to know.  And I honor it at this time since winter solstice is the beginning of a new year, and with it the possibility of a better being in the world.

8 days to solstice

You may see this invitation elsewhere as I hope to be ubiquitous with it.

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By cann4ing, December 14, 2007 at 9:03 am Link to this comment

Cyrena, you are undoubtedly correct that independent women scare the shit out of dominant power, but men who admire independent women find subservient women boring.

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By cyrena, December 14, 2007 at 2:01 am Link to this comment

Hi Jaki,

Thanks so much for this reply. I’m HOPING that the ‘others’ will ‘get it’, because I honest to god DO!!! Like on this part,


•  They are also afraid of the power of women.  We are the ones who have the ultimate power over reproduction, not to mention greater sensitivity and overall true intelligence (I fully expect this characterization may bring out some derisive laughter and/or snide remarks, but think about it.)

DEFINTELY no argument from ME here, since I am 100% in agreement. I WOULD expect some derisive/snide stuff from others…but I know exactly of what you speak.

And, believe it or not, I wasn’t even thinking of OUR society in respect to the porn or prostitution thing, because I already know what that is about. And yes, while you were correct about my ‘million years’ thing, (I do that) I honestly was thinking of more ancient societies, where “Courtesans” did garner the ultimate respect as women of authority. (or at least that was my ‘romantic’ notion of it maybe).

And, in studying a variety of cultures, I find that there are (albeit a few) who do in fact hold the women of their societies in the highest of esteem.

But for here, and our own society in the US, that has never been the case, and I’m a witness to the total inequality, having been consistently underpaid for my work as a corporate slave, for over a quarter century, and acutely aware of the injustice of it all. If anything improved my own psyche, it was getting out of THAT rat race, and basically being able to say…kiss my ass. And, only because I DIDN’T have anyone other than myself to be financially responsible for, I could do that. If I was gonna starve, then it would only be me starving…not kids. If I was gonna be homeless, I could fend for myself. So, that was a major advantage, and I’m all the better for it.

But YEP, independent women simply scare the shit out of the dominant power. I figure in the end though, better THEY be scared than ME!! wink


Thanks again for the reply. I’m headed to some much desired rest. Just finished up some exams. More later.

Oh, remind me if I forget, to look for an excellent article on the ‘Power of the Pause”. I THINK, (though I can’t swear to it) that it’s an Alice Walker piece, though I also want to connect Angela Davis with it as well, for some reason. Maybe it’s all just running together in my mind now, because of all of the work that I was putting together for the end of the term.

Angela is in my mind because of a paper that I did recently, as a quick review of a conference that we had here, in preparation for the “Islamofacist Awareness Week”. Basically, the loonies had descended on Universities in general, but specifically Womans’ Studies Departments, claiming that not only were we “hot beds of liberalism” but that the Women’s Studies departments weren’t doing anything to help the women of the Islamic societies escape their torment. HA!! Don’t even get me started. You KNOW what that’s all about.

Anyway, I said that to say that prior to this conference, I wasn’t aware that the these SOB’s had actually crafted this list of “The 100 Most Dangerous University Professors”. One of our own, (a man) made the cut, and when I looked at it later, I discovered Angela Davis was on the list as well. GOOD FOR HER!!

Now I wanna be on it!! smile (except I’m not a professor) Soon maybe.

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By cyrena, December 13, 2007 at 11:09 pm Link to this comment

#120048 by PatrickHenry

PatrickHenry,

I really do agree with you about the media bias, and it IS criminal. But ya know, it’s BEEN criminal, and it’s no different for Ron Paul than it’s been for Gravel and Kucinich. (though admittedly, Kucinich has received slightly more exposure…not much though).

So, I really don’t know what to say. I’m not a religious person, but in this case, I’m just wondering if it might be a sign of fortune. The one we DIDN’T get when GW made it to the white house, even when those of us with X-Ray vision KNEW the disaster he would be.

So, I’m honestly NOT being ugly, or rude, but I have that very same feeling about Ron Paul. And the thing is, other older folks who’ve been ‘exposed’ probably know it about him as well.

You know how the commercial medial is. And, a perfect example is Oprah supporting Obama. Now she has stated, herself, in her own published words, that she is NOT using her ‘platform’ to support him…meaning her TV show and her magazine. Rather (she claims) she is using her ‘personal voice”. Now in this VERY SAME INTERVIEW, she continued to say that she had to ‘think seriously’ about this, (or something to that effect) and went on to say that she had to consider whether her support would cause her to lose viewers, (?) but she claimed it was just ‘the right thing to do’.

Now, this is all bullshit of course, because she’s coming right out and saying in one breath, that she had to balance or weigh these considerations in respect to HER interests, (and she’s so self-absorbed that she doesn’t even realize I’m sure, how that sounds) and out of the other side of her mouth, it’s because it’s the ‘right thing to do’. Now, how hypocritical is that? But, it’s typical.

That said, the MSM IS very careful, and Oprah is making sure that everybody knows that it isn’t CBS or ABC that she’s speaking for, because rest assured, if Oprah wasn’t saying the right things and selling shit, she wouldn’t HAVE that show! AND, THAT’S why Ron Paul doesn’t have that same commercial support either!

So, while it may not matter a whit to his supporters, RP DOES HAVE very unsavory political connections to what I’ve said before…white supremacist organizations. Now I’m not just SAYING that to be mean or ugly, but that’s just the way it is. and has been for DECADES. So, even if that doesn’t matter to his supporters, (and I accept that), it very much matters to those who bend to the willing of the political winds, and that should be obvious by now.

And, in Ron Paul’s case, he’s obviously NOT backed by AIPAC or any other such lobby, (like so many of the mainstreamers are) because well, he IS anti-Semitic, and he has made that clear in the past! Do you think AIPAC and similar orgs aren’t just as aware of that as black folks are aware that the Klan doesn’t like them much either?

I mean, that’s what this is. I can’t really explain it with anymore ‘political correctedness’ than that. I’m just being honest. He DOES have those ‘associations’ even though they do stay pretty much under the radar these days.

And, since he’s STILL got those associations, you can’t expect him to get the support from the main stream media, which you already KNOW is largely operated by, well…Jews. And, like I said, while the most virulent of his racist views were expressed long ago, that stuff does come back up, when one exposes themselves to it in a political campaign. And, he’s made no attempts to distance himself from those views, or from those organizations. He’s on the home page of the John Birch Society for Christ’s sake!

So, he DOES have that going against him. And, we can’t really blame that on MSM, even though I understand perfectly well what you’re saying. He really hasn’t helped his own cause here either, because of his voting record. And, people DO pay attention to that stuff. So you know the MSM does.

Again, I’m not blasting him. I’m just being matter-of-fact. It’s politics, and people do read between the lines.

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By Jaki, December 13, 2007 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

Oh, Cyrena… you have opened Pandora’s Box (literally, excuse the pun)when you say: “I’ve accepted that porn has been around for a million years, just as prostitution has been… And…I spent a considerable amount of time working with women who were NOT likely to give up their careers as call girls or ‘working women’. Knowing that, I just had to try to convince them to practice as much safety as they could, and to well…work for THEMSELVES, if that’s what they were gonna do anyway. And, that’s why I’ve always actually appreciated the Nevada decision to legalize prostitution long ago.”

First, I applaud and appreciate that you gave some of your valuable and vital energy to working with sexually exploited women.  That isn’t easy.  As a former therapist, I also had that opportunity, and know that many “sex workers,” as they sometimes call themselves, are savvy women with good heads on their shoulders, but often little education beyond high school, if that; or higher education that prepared them for lower-paying, high-stress professional jobs.  And they often have children to support.

And, as you well know, that is the problem.  The disparity in income and opportunity for THE MAJORITY
of women in our country and the world is vast.  We both know this is not a country of “equal opportunity” either for women or racial minorities (in general).

When you can make $1000 a day (or an hour) as a high-priced call girl, why (some ask) would you labor for so much less giving so much more of your life and energy, and often working for The Man (read corporations or government).  Of course, there are obvious risks, plus the damage that can occur to the psyche, which I won’t go into here.

I agree with you that decriminalizing prostitution is a positive step.  No victims should be prosecuted when the victimizers are not.  If it went both ways equally, we probably would have far less demand for this form of exploitative degradation.

Your advice to them to work for themselves rather than pimps and to protect themselves from disease and other harm was good counsel.

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By Jaki, December 13, 2007 at 10:56 pm Link to this comment

PART I:


PART II:

Cyrena:

Your contention that this has been going on for “a million years”—(probably a little hyperbolic lapse, eh?) possibly reflects your belief that pornography and prostitution have been part of the human condition since the beginning of time.  That is not true.

Unfortunately, most of us are held captive to the patriarchal record of “his"story and/or the religious absurdity that human beings have existed for just a few thousand years.  Prior to the plundering and conquering of peaceful societies (many of which were either matriarchal and/or matrilineal) by the Barbarians, people lived in peaceful agrarian communities.  Women were respected and held in esteem, both by others and themselves.  Women who have self-esteem and respect AND equality and power, do not allow their bodies to be demeaned and exploited. 

Many books have been written about these early societies, if you are interested. 

Unfortunately, we are still in the grips of the Barbarians, who run the world, including our country.
Their historical and core belief is that women are property and must be controlled and owned so that the children they bear (from the seed of specific individual Barbarians) continue the Patriarchal lineage.  They are also afraid of the power of women.  We are the ones who have the ultimate power over reproduction, not to mention greater sensitivity and overall true intelligence (I fully expect this characterization may bring out some derisive laughter and/or snide remarks, but think about it.) I define true intelligence as knowledge of and respect for the planet, leading to actions that protect and preserve it—our home, the Mother Earth, a living, conscious Being.

This does not mean that there are no males of the species who have true intelligence.  But damn few.  Otherwise, we would not be in perpetual war and we would not be on the brink of ecological disaster.
Some will argue that females can be as brutal and dumb as men and that is true.  They are completely “male identified.”  They have surrendered their consciousness (not really by choice, but by ignorance) to the patriarchal paradigm.

In short, the exploitation of women in pornography and serving the sexual predilections and “needs” of men, is not a true “choice” in our society.  It is the result of inequality and victimization and no self-respecting woman who is “woman-identified” would make it if she had other equally self-sustaining and family-sustaining options.

Clearly, we need a complete overhaul of our system of male dominance in the economic arena (not to mention everywhere else).

And what does this have to do with Ron Paul?  Ron Paul is not Pro-Choice and that is what this entire response was about.  Pro-Choice is not just about abortion.
It is about power and control.  Control over our own lives and destiny.

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By PatrickHenry, December 13, 2007 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

The non-reporting of Ron Paul’s campaign amongst the main stream media borderlines on criminality.

The enforcers of the first amendment, the “free press”, are failing America.

Despite overwelming monetary support online, wins in Republican straw polls at state fairs throughout America, winner of numerous TV debate polls (Fox news included), Ron Paul is not given the notoriety or free press of Thompson or Huckabee, Hell his name isn’t even on the top 5 polls of CNN, ABC, MSNBC, and seldom mentioned.

Whether or not you support Ron Paul or any other candidate, you must worry.  If the “free press” can be stifled and manipulated to the extent that a “Ron Paul” event doesn’t exist, then corporate censorship truely exists in America.  First they consolidated all media between 6 corporations (from 50+ 10 years ago) and now they have fewer scripts to read from.

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By DetainThis, December 13, 2007 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Take what corporate media tell you and flip it 180°; you’ll be closer the truth.

If it’s corporately owned, then it’s biased toward its owners’ political and economic ends.

That’s why Gravel, Paul, and Kucinich are treated as alleged enemies of the state, and are getting just slightly better corporate media treatment than Ahmadinejad.

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By Shenonymous, December 13, 2007 at 5:27 am Link to this comment

I love Black Italians.  Pittsburgh had one of the best football players of all time who was a Black Italian, Franco Harris.  A most beautiful man, see http://www.upto11.net/generic_wiki.php?q=franco_harris
Gawd, ta see him run was like listening to a Chopin nocturne.  I’m a Steeler’s Fan, can you guess?  But no, I’m not from Sicilian stock (or at least I don’t think so, but you know how those Italians play around), I’m have Calabrese genetic material, and they have harder heads than Sicilians, at least that is what my Gramma used to say.  Cuban, Dominican, moot, right?

You do point out the infestation, Cyrena and why we must prevail.

I love your idea of a new play, Jaki and the title is perfect.  I will check out the Hedges’ tax resistance thing.  One can only be spread so thin, eh?  But thanx, f’sure, f’sure.

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By cyrena, December 13, 2007 at 4:27 am Link to this comment

#119825 by Shenonymous

•  Next would be Obama in spite of Oprah, who I think should keep her mouth shut and just give him the money.  After Barack, my choice was Biden but he is I a cul-de-sac and no one is giving him much attention, ‘cept me, I think.

I know I’m supposed to be studying, (it’s nearly over) but I had to respond. I had to laugh out loud at the suggestion that Oprah should just shut up and give him the money. So, that’s good. It’ll keep me awake for a while longer. (needless to say, I agree). (are you Sicilian – you said you had Mediterranean roots?) My maiden name is very “Mediterranean” and my late father, (my biological one) always claimed to be a ‘black Italian’. I thought it was a whole lot closer to a garden variety Cuban, or maybe even a Dominican, but lots of black folks like to claim various other strains of ethnic ID’s, and well…what the hell, there probably are a few grains of the genes floating around. I just always wondered why they didn’t pick something more “exotic”. I mean, how much different is a Cuban or a Dominican, (or even an Italian) from a dude from Southern Louisiana? They all look pretty much the same to me. (I do love the Mediterranean though…Turkey, Greece, all of those places)

Jaki, I understand your sentiments about DK, and especially the invites to Larry Flynt events, (for a feminist?) Yep, pretty much the same thing as inviting a black person to a Klan rally.

On the other hand, (and I do say this cautiously) as offended as I may be by porn in the way that it exploits women, I also wouldn’t go so far as to put Larry Flynt in the same category as Huge Heffner and his Playboy institution. Now that’s possibly because I’ve accepted that porn has been around for a million years, just as prostitution has been. And, in my own work back in the day, (as far as feminist movements were concerned) I spent a considerable amount of time working with women who were NOT likely to give up their careers as call girls or ‘working women’. Knowing that, I just had to try to convince them to practice as much safety as they could, and to well…work for THEMSELVES, if that’s what they were gonna do anyway. And, that’s why I’ve always actually appreciated the Nevada decision to legalize prostitution long ago.

The porn thing is pretty much on the same level, to some degree. I can’t really judge any woman who chooses to earn a lot of money quickly, because if I did, I’d be perfectly valid in my criticisms of Oprah as a CSB sponsored prostitute.(or is it NBC, I get ‘em confused) Because, she IS. BUT, she’s getting her take. So, I guess it works out. And, that’s the way I have to look at Larry Flynt’s enterprise, and I can actually appreciate him for exposing all of the hypocrites that do their church sermons on Sunday, and preach a lot of sanctimonious bullshit, and then creep through the dark to do their own deeds. So, as offensive as the whole porn thing is, and as much as admire the women who have challenged this in the halls of Congress, I do make a distinction between the business that Larry Flynt operates, and those who would simply take advantage of pretending to make some young woman a ‘star’ or having them parade around in little bunnie outfits for pennies, or horrors or all horrors, those who would exploit children. Now THEY just need killing. (that’s what they say in Texas…ok, this isn’t a statement that I intend to start murdering child molesters or pornographers, though I wouldn’t protest if someone else did).

But, on to the other stuff on the threat about resistance. YES!! That IS very scary, and I’ve got enough sense to take it very seriously, just based on so many of the things that have happened in the past several years. New Orleans-Katrina-Blackwater….that was the first sign of what is on the horizon.

OH…Good to know you’ve pronounced Ron Paul as dead meat. Does that mean we can throw him in the gulf for the fish to nibble on?

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By Jaki, December 13, 2007 at 1:29 am Link to this comment

#119825 by Shenonymous on 12/12 at 5:18 pm

Shenon, we have similar predilections, ascending priorities, and candidate preferences.  I appreciated your comments about Gore perhaps still being possibly open to a popular draft.  And thank you for the web reference to draft him.  I’ll go there and give a look.

Ernest, you seem married to Kucinich as your one and only.  I think he would make a great Ambassador to the UN.  Biden—Secretary of State.  Obama seems on his way to VP.  I’m betting the Dems think a woman and a black man will energize the electorate enough for a win, not to mention all the celebrity assistance, like it or not. It could help with the younger voters, and Oprah does have a lot of star power and influence, whatever we might think of it.  I guess we have to use what we’ve got.  The Repugnicans have the Corps (and the Creeps—like Rove & the Talk Jerks).

It is going to be quite a drama.  Maybe Tony Kushner will write a play, “Devils in DC”

Keep it coming…

Truth be told, I’m more involved in reading the blogging after Chris Hedges’ article on tax resistance and what is being set up by the fascist regime to round up the critics and dissenters. 

Pretty scary…

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By Shenonymous, December 12, 2007 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Jaki, my sentiments about Al Gore was made some time ago.  I’d campaign for him in a heartbeat.  I am not as sure as you are that there is a chance he would run. However, at the algore.org website there is a viable draft Gore effort going on. 

Here is a quote from that site:  “Everywhere he goes, the winner of the 2000 popular vote is asked: “Would you consider running for President in 2008?” His answer is that he has no intention or plans to seek office. But he hasn’t decided not to run, either. We’re convinced that Gore can be persuaded to run. I have signed the petition and volunteered but I am not convinced he will head the call.  So maybe, Ernest, no means yes? 

As I told Ernest awhile back, I don’t think Kucinich can get the nomination no matter how much he represents the sentiments of the general public.  But given that Gore would not be running, a choice has to be made.  That would be Kucinich who stands more for my core values than the others. But you have made some interesting points about DK as mayor of Cleveland.  Next would be Obama in spite of Oprah, who I think should keep her mouth shut and just give him the money.  After Barack, my choice was Biden but he is I a cul-de-sac and no one is giving him much attention, ‘cept me, I think.

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By cann4ing, December 12, 2007 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

Jaki, your post reminds me of the guy who keeps asking a young lady out.  She keeps politely telling him no, but since she hasn’t told him to drop dead, he keeps thinking she might be interested.  “No” means “no!”

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By Jaki, December 12, 2007 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Ernest, I haven’t heard Al Gore say he won’t run under any circumstance.  I’ve only heard him say he does not intend to run and also, when asked by the press if he will run, he says, “No.”  To me that doesn’t mean he would not rise to the occasion if there was a huge groundswell of folks who want to elect someone of “substance” who will stand up to the
corporations and really focus on solutions for getting us out of our addiction to earth-destroying, life-sucking, polluting energy.

I honor and trust Al Gore now more than I did in 2000 and, if you have a recent (particularly since the Nobel) quote from somewhere that says he would not run under any circumstances, even if there was a public plea or was given the nod from the Dems, I’d like to hear it and have the reference.
 
If I were Al Gore, up until now I would not have entered the fray.  It is lunacy to have to withstand all the attacks and vitriol, and this kind of internecine warfare has blown the election for democrats in the past (witness the last California gubernatorial race).  Gore has been able to stand back calmly, do important environmental research, make an Academy Award Winning Blockbuster documentary film seen by millions, win the Nobel Peace Prize, and watch his currency as a respected leader and political figure rise in the U.S. and the world.

I’m not yet convinced he could not be persuaded, given these more recent circumstances,  as well as the more dire planetary conditions that seem to be arising even more rapidly than predicted.

In terms of Kucinich, I hear all the great things he says—I’m an old Leftie, and I can certainly relate—but I have some qualms about him. 

First, since going on his website, I’ve been invited to everything under the sun regarding fundraising, including one in Beverly Hills hosted by Larry Flynt and his wife.  As a feminist, that is offensive to me.  How would a black person feel if invited to a fundraiser for Kuchinich hosted by the Ku Klux Klan?

Second, I have a friend who lived in Cleveland for a long time.  Rather than pass on what she said, perhaps you might look into his record as Mayor of Cleveland, the political appointments he made, and what in fact he did for that city, how he managed it.  Personally, I’m not willing to do the research, first because I’m not that computer savvy, and second because I believe his candidacy is an exercise in futility.  Since you are such a fan I wonder if you have, or would.

My worst speculation is that Kuchinich is a salve for the Democratic left, a mouthpiece for “our” rhetoric, and a fundraiser to get money from those of us who would never give to any of the other candidates.

I don’t know any of this to be true, and I say that loud and clear.  But I have become more jaded with age, and I have reasons for it. 

Perhaps Kucinich, like Gore, has morphed over the past few years into someone who is sincere in his words, more skilled in his leadership and management abilities, and ready for the job as head honcho.  At this point, I am dubious.  And I don’t think he would get the party nomination under any circumstances at this point.  So why bother?  Kucinich has said, and I do believe him, that he would not bolt from the party under any circumstances.

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By Shenonymous, December 12, 2007 at 12:00 pm Link to this comment

Make sure, Ernest, it bites like a red savina pepper.

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By cann4ing, December 12, 2007 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Okay, Shenonymous & Cyrena.  You ladies win on this one.  I suppose it’s time I sharpen my sense of humor.

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By cyrena, December 12, 2007 at 8:03 am Link to this comment

#119454 by Ernest Canning

•  Cyrena & Shenonymous:  You both need to get away from this idea that we have to find some celebrity to come riding to the rescue…..As it stands now, a blinded group-think which focuses on celebrity, punditocracy and polls prevents the vast majority of our citizens from understanding that they would regain democratic control of this country only if they decided to vote on the basis of substance.

But Ernest…I KNOW this!!! (I think Shenonymous does as well) I fear that you haven’t interpreted my many posts about the “Oprah Effect”, and you’ve certainly not picked up on my ultra DISMAY at the LACK OF SUBSTANCE of the MAJORITY of the ‘body politic’. How many times have I said in the past, how very DETRIMENTAL I feel the ‘Oprah Effect” has been on the public at large, INCLUDING many people that I know and love? When we talk ‘Oprah’, we are talking the adult version of Disneyland, and maybe not even THAT good, because at least the kids enjoying Disneyland have a general understanding of the concept that NONE of that stuff is ‘real’. Need I remind you that my dad didn’t allow us to watch cartoons, for this very reason? Coyotes chasing other critters off the sides of cliffs and stuff, and them all springing right back to life?

So NO!!! I have NEVER expected a “celeb” to –come to the rescue-? Did Ronnie Regan ‘rescue’ anybody? Hell no!! (and even HE had a more connection with reality than Oprah does) He wasn’t particularly smart, and clearly not an ‘intellectual’, but he was smart enough to hire the right people, and he pretty much listened to them. Now that didn’t help those of us who were victimized by his Reganomics, or any of the victims of his dirty wars in South America, but still…

So I’m the LAST person looking for a ‘celeb’ to come to the rescue. I’m also perfectly aware that –I- personally, am NOT ‘in charge’ of a damn thing but myself, and so I can’t change the mindless thinking of the millions who hang on Oprah’s every word, and have turned her into the Saleswoman of the Century!!!

So I definitely agree that we DON’T NEED the Oprah effect,(I said Kucinich needed something ‘similar’) because I’ve been saying that for well over a decade, as she’s continued to dumb-down such a large part of the population. BUT, nobody was listening to me THEN and NOW, we’re STUCK with her. (not MY FAULT…I’VE never bought (into) any of that crap she advertises). But, a whole bunch of other folks have, or she wouldn’t be a gazillionaire!! I don’t have to like it, but unless I accept it for what it is, I could surely make myself crazy. (I get close enough sometimes as it is).


Meantime, her phoniness has been utilized to AT LEAST tap into a portion of the population who would otherwise NEVER have become involved in the political process, and so I DO have to take some heart from that. MAYBE…once they’re at least EXPOSED to some issues of substance, they’ll start to figure this stuff out. I have to hope for that.

Now calm yourself. As for the primaries, I’ve ALREADY decided to vote for Kucinich. If he wins, it will be a beautiful thing. HOWEVER, in my personal life experiences of reality, I know that it’s always good to have a back-up plan, whenever possible. (sometimes it’s not) In THAT CASE, I don’t want Hillary Clinton to be ‘our’ candidate against any other repug. And for the moment, it’s looking like Obama is the next realistic option against another minimum of 4 years of disaster, which I fear we would never survive, with any of the others, Hillary included.

Over and out. (I’ll check back in with you after my last monster exam).

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By cann4ing, December 12, 2007 at 6:33 am Link to this comment

Jaki:  I agree with your take, and Nader’s, on Al Gore, but the “elect Al Gore” proposal is a collosal waste of time.  Gore is not running.  He will not run.  If you take the man for his word on issues like global warming, why won’t you take the man for his word when he tells you that he will not run under any circumstance? 

Gore isn’t running.  Dennis Kucinich is.  Elect Dennis Kucinich.

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By Shenonymous, December 12, 2007 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

Good morning…all, from the perennial optimist.
PH:  At last we can be thankful for something MSNBC does.  I do believe Ron Paul is dead meat.  Now to bring the ring of reality about Shuckabee.  Wasn’t it lucky for him that it rained so hard he had to cancel his appearance yesterday just when the news about all of his taking with one hand with crossed-fingers behind his back of solicited gifts.  He says it was all legal, yeah….sure.  What else will we find out about this wolf in sheepskin?  It is going to be fun.

Jaki,  So sorry you find the world devoid of any humor.  Of course it is serious!  It is deadly serious.  And everybody had better not think the Algore will come to the rescue.  He’s political history.  He has said it too many times not to believe him.  It is a nice fantasy, but it ain’t gonna happen.  He would be the only other I’d vote for now, in lieu of Kucinich.  But this notion that we have to be so dismal is a mistake.  The depressives notoriously do not get votes.  The devastating and funereal has to be delivered to the general public with seriousness but with encouragement.  Every good teacher knows that!  It has to be a warm and fuzzy feeling that we are secure even in our pain in order to swipe those fear-mongering votes from the Republican Orwellian sociopaths.  I mean even Ernest put it into drama when he likened the situation to the Orwell 1984.  Psychology is a big part of elections.  To deny that is to retreat to one’s own black hole.  We must learn exponentially if we are to triumph over evil.  We have to see beyond the end of our own noses no matter how long they are.

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By PatrickHenry, December 12, 2007 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

I watched MSNBC’s morning Joe show yesterday and saw their Republican polls where they “juke the stats: once again.  Ron Paul wasn’t shown and not even mentioned.

The MSM disgusts me, They has become glaringly obvious in their censorship.

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By Jaki, December 11, 2007 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment

PART II:

The other Peace Prize acceptance speech shown today on DN! , given by Rajendra Pachuauri, Chairman, UN IPCC, representing the hundreds of scientists who have concluded we are on the brink, is also worth a careful listen.  He is not as dynamic as Gore, but the facts and prognoses are compelling and every single one of us needs to know and take to heart what a mess this planet is in and what we need to do, and soon. 

The end of today’s program on DN! included an assessment of Gore and Pachuauri’s presentations, by Ted Glick, U.S. Climate Emergency Council, who is (at this moment) either sitting in at Republican Congressional Leader Mitch McConnell’s office on Capitol Hill, or he is in jail.  He was resolute that he (and others) would not leave and would have to be arrested to get them out of McConnell’s office.

He referred to McConnell, Bush, and Cheney as “CLIMATE CRIMINALS,” and has been on a fast for 99 days to protest their negligence of our environment.

If only everyone in this country would sit down and watch the full presentation of Al Gore’s Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech…many times…I can’t imagine they would not be persuaded to demand that he reconsider becoming our President.

I urge all readers to go to http://www.democracynow.org and read the text for today’s broadcast.  If there is a video version on the website, watch it.  If not, consider buying the DVD.

“If you want to go quickly, go alone; If you want to go far, go together.  We need to go far…quickly.”

Al Gore for President.

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By Jaki, December 11, 2007 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

PART I:

I agree with Ernest…“punditocracy and polls prevent the vast majority of our citizens from understanding that they would regain democratic control of this country only if they decided to vote on the basis of substance.”  (I also want my “revolution” to include music, dancing, art, and fun.
We used to have this in the 60s, and we were also very serious.)

Now, speaking of substance…

On Democracy Now! today (12/11/07), Al Gore’s acceptance speech in Sweden, for the Nobel Peace Prize, showed him to be a World Class Visionary Statesman, the kind of leader, orator, and dedicated caring human being we need to be President of The United States.  Gore’s acceptance speech was brilliant, passionate, calmly controlled, and extremely persuasive.

Recently Ralph Nader, in an interview with Amy Goodman, said he believed Al Gore actually has been born again (not in the religious sense) but as a dedicated environmental activist and leader, whose “reinvention of himself” is sincere and genuine.  Nader, however, was not convinced that Gore would be able to maintain this “reincarnation” if he became President, because of corporate control over our system.  I am not inclined to agree with that after listening to Gore from Stockholm.

I know he does not have a “perfect past”, but, in addition to being the most experienced politically (domestic and foreign), I think he has morphed, through his intensive work and personal transformation of the past seven years, into the kind of leader who will, indeed, stand up to the corporations and not allow a Congress of any political persuasion to ram through bills that favor the polluting energy industries and ruin our planetary home.

Yesterday Al Gore spoke not only to the people of the United States, but to the World.  If he were to be elected (after a groundswell of citizens demanding he be the Democratic nominee—or a Third Party Candidate), he simply could not knuckle under to the corporate elite (read Planetary Criminals) and maintain any semblance of integrity.  If he did that, not only would his personal legacy end up in the crapper, but people around the world would never trust another American politician to be true to his or her beliefs.  If you listen to the speech, you will IMO be convinced that Al Gore cares a lot about his legacy, and not in an egotistical way.  He deeply wants to contribute and realize his purpose. It was one of the only times in the speech where his voice almost broke.

I was deeply moved by Al Gore’s talk about climate change, global warming, and the serious and immediate crisis we must solve as the collective of humans who inhabit this planet.  It was not hyperbole, it was truth, delivered with great heart, and it is our most urgent priority to get on with solutions.  If America does not elect a person of Gore’s knowledge and commitment, we are doomed.  It truly is “the Eleventh Hour.”

We have to “come to the defense of the common future…We still have the power to choose our fate.  Have we the WILL?...Political Will is a renewable resource.  Let’s renew it.”

The sadistic, greedy, arrogant liars who are running this country have declared war on the planet.  Al Gore fervently believes “It is time to make peace with the planet.”  If we don’t, we have no future.

Although Gore has been oft quoted lately that he is not intending to run for President, and many people believe he should continue doing what he has been doing with regard to the environment, IMO, Gore is the best person for the Presidency.  In fact, I think he is the only one who can lead us into a future that is sustainable.

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By Shenonymous, December 11, 2007 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena – I just had to savor your last commentary.  You are a natural born humorist.  Family reunions never quite match the image one has beforehand.  At least that is the way it is for me.  Last one I went to, some years ago, there were 103 people that showed up!  I mean we filled the park.  Literally, and all the ball playing, gabbing, gossiping caught up, and the opinionated, well what do you expect from a Soprano-like family, maybe not murderers, but certainly gamblers and bullshitters of all stripes.  And blue-neck atheists like me who always live on the fringes and family members kind of stare in that Italian kind of way and wonder where did they go wrong in their Catholic training???, maybe it is that way with every ethnic group, I don’t know.  I know my English/Polish/German former-in-laws didn’t quite have that same look but did have a look-down-the-nose one for the only Mediterranean-blooded member of their family (ah, me).  I really was more cultured than they having had music lessons even as a child and learned of classical literature, and opera (opera of course was invented by the Italians, wasn’t it?)  Where do they get off?  Oh well, they, the in-laws, are in the past, and reside only as memories, and I much happier for it.

Alzheimer’s ravaged a dear uncle of mine.  His wife, my mother’s sister was so bewildered by his illness but loved him so much as he was truly a good man, a moral man.  There is so much being done these days with new medicines and hope in the stem cell research, I hope they come up with a remedy soon.  It will have to come from the private sector, unless the new president has more sympathy for the program in approving government funding.  But I think the Europeans or Asians will come up with the cure.  They are so much farther ahead in attitude toward humanitarianism. Or maybe just for their competitive spirit and the gold that is promised at the end of that rainbow.  The Americans will be left holding an empty pot.

I share your assessment of the candidates, the Obama and Winfrey alliance is somewhat comical in my book.  She is quite grandiose, even to the point of demagoguery. I think her rhapsodic hyperbole will dissipate after awhile and people will become immune to it as they are wont to do.  I am glad, however, that the black community can now step up to the biggest political plate.  Obama is an intelligent man, no doubt about it and brave to have stepped into the fray as he has.  But he is a quintessential politician, and the status quo is a safe haven for him, where I think Kucinich does not fall into that abyss.  I am afraid that Ernest does not appreciate our enthusiasm for the drama that is unfolding.  Maybe he needs some training in guerilla theater???  I am a great follower of Pirandello and Samuel Beckett and theater of the absurd as well as Commedia dell’arte (and of course William Shakespeare).  If mankind cannot learn the power of the arts they represent then I feel we are truly lost as human beings.  I mean, yeah, my cat is a comedian too, but….

Oprah as a cabinet member???? Now that really is Le Théâtre de l’Absurde

I look forward to your next post.

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By Shenonymous, December 11, 2007 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

Ernest, I can’t believe you are such an antideluvian.  Maybe you haven’t noticed but the world has changed and actually has gotten younger in demographics.  The young at heart at least here in the States, love a spectacle and even though you may be right about the seriousness of the situation, and we are on the iceberg, we have to keep our cool…mon.  There is fun and then there is fun.  Even Plato and Socrates knew how to have fun and understood the dance of the corybants.  I’m afraid the reality is that Dionysus competes with Apollo.  And both are needed.  Both Aristophanes and Agathon are needed for mental health.  But I am not ready for the coffin, and my sense of spectacle has all to do with theater, because my friend, as Willyboy said, Life is a stage.  We must learn from poets.  My mother, a very wise woman, said often enough to me, “daughter, you can get more bees with honey, than you can with vinegar.”  Now just substitute honey with votes, and bees with winning elections.  Dang.

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By cann4ing, December 11, 2007 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

Cyrena & Shenonymous:  You both need to get away from this idea that we have to find some celebrity to come riding to the rescue.  There will never be meaningful change until the People of this nation, one by one, appreciate the power they have in the vote.  As it stands now, a blinded group-think which focuses on celebrity, punditocracy and polls prevents the vast majority of our citizens from understanding that they would regain democratic control of this country only if they decided to vote on the basis of substance.

We don’t need the “Oprah effect.”  We need reality.  Until we grab hold of it, nothing will change.

This isn’t just about Kucinich.  It’s about the core of our national being.  Our nation is like the Titanic approaching the iceberg.  While the sensible thing to do would be to change course altogether, the corporate media has convinced Americans they must chose a new captain on the basis of who offers the best rearrangement of the deck chairs.

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By cyrena, December 11, 2007 at 12:06 am Link to this comment

#119366 by Shenonymous

•  My point is that Kucinich needs something captivating that Middle America can grab onto. .  People are what they are and if they are not the most sophisticated voters then they aren’t…. And if campaign managers don’t know that by now, all they have to do is take a look at Oprah while Obama gathers the hearts and minds of the public. 

I’m just catching up with you all after an eventful weekend in the Greater LA area. Shenonymous, you mentioned driving around the mindless state of Texas, and of course I know exactly what you mean. However, things can always be worse. Mine was similar in a bittersweet way, since it involved traveling to a family reunion of sorts, and recognizing, (as I do every time) the continuing deterioration that my dear mother suffers from the Alzheimer’s. It’s not something that ANYONE can adjust to, ever….though we certainly try. Just one of those things, like raising kids or planning life, for which there is no dress rehearsal. We learn as we go.

Meantime though, you’re so right about the Kucinich campaign. I do wish he could grab hold of something similar to the “Oprah effect” without actually being THE “Oprah” effect. I hate to get started on what I suppose is a continuing rant from me on that, but the bottom line is that it is so deeply paradoxical, to have her be the impetus for his campaign. Then again, there’s a reason for that, which (IMO) does not speak well of the overall US political mentality. On the one hand, I suppose it’s a very positive thing, in that her involvement has been able to bring out a portion of the body politic that, quite frankly, may not have otherwise been involved.

I say that in part because I recently revisited Obama’s web sites, and even signed up for a particular forum that discusses foreign policy and the international relations. (that’s just my current emphasis in my own field these days). And, I was pleasantly surprised, because at least that part of the campaign is now, (and in all honesty has been for quite a while) very well organized. In other words, there IS a great deal of substance to Barak Obama as a candidate and a political leader, and that was something that I recognized well over a year ago now, after listening to him, and after reading his books and other contributions to scholastic journals. I believe him to be a very intelligent and insightful person. He’s somewhat overly cautious in certain respects, though others might see it as pragmatic, and that’s fine with me as well.

Anyway, I only said that to say that I didn’t really start to see any drawbacks in his position or platform, until he got caught in the treachery of the canned debates, and seemed unwilling to veer too far from the status quo. And, the association with Oprah sure didn’t improve my feelings on that, since I’m firmly convinced that she’s as shallow as a coffee cup saucer. That said, I still reluctantly acknowledge the overwhelming influence that she has, and therefore also acknowledge that her stumpin’ on behalf of Obama didn’t necessarily have to be a BAD thing, as long as he didn’t become actually entrenched in the never-never land of her “Secret” himself.

Now, be advised that I’m involved in this discussion with other family members, as we’re all crammed into a van, traveling the soon-to-be tollroads. And, my otherwise intelligent sister is a great fan of Oprah. Then, it happened. My elderly father decided (and announced) that with all of the help that Obama was getting from Oprah, he was SURE to appoint her to a cabinet position if he was elected!! Well..Shit!!. That did it!! I was convinced they were trying to give me a heart attack. I said Oh NO! My sister said, “why not”, she’s better than Condi. But, we’re not even talking about the same thing here. Please no. Let her be head of hospitality or something, but please, nothing important. No doubt Oprah could sell somebody a wad of their own spit, but please…not the cabinet. I couldn’t take it.

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By Shenonymous, December 10, 2007 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

Sean Penn is a number one in my book, Ernest, and I have a high appreciation for his intelligence.  Whenever he is on TV I always make it a point to watch him.  He is a very fine actor, director, whatever… and thinker.  But he is not enough. 

Taking what might be considered a bit of a diversion, but not really, as I was driving today around the mindless state of Texas, I happened to be listening to a John Mayall CD, A Sense of Place actually.  It occurred to me as he sang a song “Let’s Work Together,” that wouldn’t it be an amazing thing if someone like John Mayall, or John Mayall himself, could sing that particular song for Dennis Kucinich.  I remember when Bill Clinton and Al Gore ran how infectious was the song that became a signature for them, “Don’t Stop,” by Fleetwood Mac, that in turn was turned into a Bill Clinton campaign song with the title expanded from the first refrain Don’t Stop Thinking About Tomorrow.  Even now when that song is played, Bill Clinton is remembered.  I think it was commandeered from Fleetwood Mac!  My point is that Kucinich needs something captivating that Middle America can grab onto.  In other words, a mental cue that every time it is heard Kucinich is associated with it.  I think his candidacy so far is lack luster and, my friend, it is panache, dynamism that captures the imagination of the people.  People are what they are and if they are not the most sophisticated voters then they aren’t.  And if campaign managers don’t know that by now, all they have to do is take a look at Oprah while Obama gathers the hearts and minds of the public.  I don’t know…what do you think?  Am I off the wall?  Naïve?  Do we have to be so sober about everything?  Drab is drab.  And serious is serious.  And it can drag you down.  But a little dazzle does not hurt.  Take it for what it is worth. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, antispin.  Thanks for the links.  The A-rabs and especially Iran have been trying to trounce the dollar for a long time.  Except something like that also happened in 2005.  Funny if this is so serious why don’t the NYT or WSJ have anything about it in their news online, even if you do a search at either online newspaper on Iran the Euro?  Well, maybe something will turn up tamarra.  Hey don’t the Feds always do something?  Are we apathetic?  Regarding the video, nothing new there, apathy is not new either, I remember the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and cannot see why anyone (not David Fleetwood by the way but some nameless video blogger) would take 8 minutes to give a rather mundane talk about why Americans have apathy without offering at least one good way to inject ardor, or fervor into the apathetics.  There was a movie long ago with Sean Connery in it called Zardoz that was a metaphor for a number of things, but one of them was the distinction between renegades and apathetics.  Connery, one of the brutal renegades and who showed a lot of beautiful skin, came to rescue after becoming enlightened.  An interesting film on many levels.  So what kind of dynamite do you propose? Or is it best to lie down and shut up.  Isn’t that what dying dogs do?

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By antispin, December 10, 2007 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

While I’m wasting my time p***ing into the blogosphere, did you hear that Iran has adopted the Euro for petro money?  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/8/11509/1380

This is one of Ron Paul’s central arguments: that the petrodollar is the main means of support of the “American dream” and the real reason for the war in Iraq.  He makes a pretty good argument there.  Too bad he’s Libertard.  Kucinich is the man!

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By antispin, December 10, 2007 at 7:50 pm Link to this comment

EC link is here, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVOfSWEocw8

Reasons for apathy:

1. Money.  Candidates must either have money or appeal to people with money.  This means no radical change.  “If things had been different in the past, they wouldn’t have been able to accumulate money.”
2. Rich get richer and poor get poorer.  Americans feel they have less say and are disenfranchised.  Corporations have money to influence elections, but people don’t.  Corporations give tens of millions of dollars to both sides, how can a person compete?

2. Education.  The % of middle schoolers who pass the English Language Arts exam in Rochester is 38%.  That’s typical for New York’s largest cities.  This means that our kids can’t be informed in politics.  The % of students who graduate from high school has dropped dramatically and fewer students can affort college, even if they do graduate with grades. 

3. Fear.  Fear to express unpopular opinions.  Can you speak out and risk being branded as a terrorist supporter?  Keep quiet and continue to cede power to politicians who promise to keep you safe.  Those who do speak out about immoral/illegal/wrong government actions are more likely than ever to be arrested/detained: look at the GOP National Convention in NYC.  Why risk it?  Best to sit down shut and go with it.

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By Leefeller, December 10, 2007 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

Ernest,

Could not get your link to work?

Substance, we don’t need no stinking substance.

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