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 What Are We Fighting For?Posted on Nov 15, 2007WASHINGTON—It’s time that we subject the Iraq war to the same cost-benefit analysis that we are called upon to impose on other government endeavors. We are supposed to repeal or revise domestic programs that don’t work. Shouldn’t a troubled war policy be treated the same way? Driving the current debate is the assumption that we can’t afford to withdraw our troops from Iraq because of the chaos that will ensue. The idea seems to be that somehow—against the evidence of the last four and a half years—good things will happen if we just keep the war going. This upside-down debate puts the burden of proof in the wrong place. We should be asking whether keeping our forces in Iraq over an extended period is worth the cost in lives, injuries, money, lost opportunities and the strain on our military. How will a prolonged stay in Iraq enhance our security? Is Iraq distracting us from foreign policy questions that will matter far more to our national interest in the long run? President Bush regularly brags about the accomplishments of the troop surge. It’s certainly true that our troops have performed superbly. Let’s be happy that, albeit at great cost, the overall levels of violence in Iraq have dropped and that al-Qaida in Iraq is weaker today than it was some months ago. The question to which the administration has no answer is how this military success will produce a decent outcome down the road. Advertisement Ricks quotes Army Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno on what it would mean if Iraq’s leaders fail to use this moment of reduced violence to arrive at new power-sharing arrangements. “If that doesn’t happen,” Odierno said, “we’re going to have to review our strategy.” Odierno’s candid remarks should unleash a clamor for the administration to explain where its policy is taking us—and whether the continuing sacrifice in Iraq is achieving more than just temporary tactical victories. We can trust our military commanders on tactics. Experience teaches us to be skeptical of the administration on strategy. Bush’s approach to Iraq is the classic case of a politician arguing that a problem will be solved if only we keep throwing large sums of money at it. That’s why a report on the staggering costs of our Iraq intervention, issued Wednesday by the Democratic staff of the Joint Economic Committee, is useful. The report noted that Bush has requested a total of $607 billion for the war, and that its actual cost to our economy is $1.3 trillion. Republican critics of the JEC report, “War At Any Price?” argued that some of its numbers are tendentious. Yes, this study has its moments of tendentiousness. But that doesn’t undercut the importance of the questions it asks. Consider only this number: Interest costs on Iraq-related debt will be more than $23 billion for the 2008 fiscal year. That sum is almost exactly the difference between Bush and Congress on spending levels for the entire budget now being debated. Why are the costs of the Iraq war not considered part of our larger budget debate? On Tuesday, Bush vetoed Congress’ $606 billion labor, health and education bill because of a $10 billion difference on spending for domestic concerns. But he is asking for a supplemental appropriation of $196 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—an increase of $46 billion over what he had sought in October. So it comes down to this: Bush can bust the budget for Iraq, but God forbid that we spend a little more on education. In the way he’s managing the Iraq and budget debates, the president is trying to evade the essential questions. By focusing on the surge, Bush avoids responsibility for explaining where we might be in Iraq at the end of his term. And by picking symbolic budget fights, he never has to explain how his own policies—his ludicrous initial assumptions about the costs of the war, his refusal to ask for the taxes to fund it—have created the fiscal mess he now decries. You’d think that facing the verdict of history, not simply an election, the president would be more serious about these things. E.J. Dionne’s e-mail address is postchat(at)aol.com. © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group CommentsAre you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. Add Your Comment |
The Imperial Way: American Decline in Perspective, Part 2
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By 1drees, November 30, 2007 at 9:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Simply put, the Americans are fighting the wars to get the ZIONIST NEW WORLD ORDER into place so that their ZIONIST master in Israel do not crush them via their ECONOMY.
Report thisBy Frank Cajon, November 21, 2007 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment
There are several estimates bouncing around about the dallar costs of the genocide in Iraq. With the hidden costs and interest on borrowed debt the low end is around $1.3 trillion for the war effort to date and since even optomistic estimates have this slaughter continuing another five years, the overall costs (some admittedly include Afganistan war costs, negligible in contrast) at $2.5 to 3.5 trillion by 2011 or 2013, depending on the source.
Report thisHow much is $2.5 trillion? Enough that if the dollars were placed end to end, they would reach from Earth to Mars and back. Five times. Or carpet 89,000,000 square miles with money (our 10 smallest states would fit inside). Enough to pay every citizen in Iraq $80,000 or every human being on Earth over $600. But the problem is that the Bush/Cheney regime doesn’t have a dime of this monopoly money and will just print it, as they have the over $3.5 trillion in national debt that has accrued since he took office. The dollar will be toilet paper by the time they leave office, but the recipients of the war contracts will be rolling in cash, so they will be fine. The legacy of these fascists and their money-laundering phoney war is already being seen as the middle class is vanishing and housing markets crash. The wealthiest 10% are richer than ever, and the poor continue to be ignored both by the fascists and the elistists running billion dollar campaigns to try to get their job in the cat bird seat. I am retiring in a month, and have two professional sons who may struggle for years to afford a home. Most other Americans aren’t that lucky. We have been swindled, our young men and women murdered, and our future mortgaged by two mentally unbalanced con artists who have stolen our rights and our children’s tomorrows. I have just about given up going to the trouble of protesting, which in my conservative town is meager and unheard. There have been no general strikes, no articles of impeachment. The sonofabitches get nothing more than an occasional poor opinion poll.
By TAO Walker, November 20, 2007 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment
el jefe obviously has enough on-the-ball to know that “....psuedo-mystical gibberish….” (#114757), like so much else, is really entirely in the eye (or maybe ear) of the beholder. When this old Indian wants to sample something from that sumptuous smorgasboord, there is always on-offer plenty of the stuff from product-peddlers, politicians, pundits, preachers, and professors of economics….to name but a mere handful among the legions whose stock-in-trade is invariably spun out of whole-cloth and puffed-up with hot-air.
Now if “the subject” was last Sunday’s NFL-fest or something else along similar lines (like “Meet the Press”), el jefe’s compositional advice would be right-on-the-money, so-to-speak. The ubiquitous sports metaphor, for example, certainly has the virtue of being both familiar and largely comprehensible to your average allamerican. That it is also pretty thoroughly devalued by over-production, rendered into stale cliche by misapplication, and wholly insufficient to carry any beneficially effective “weight” when it comes to accurately encompassing the richness of our actual Living Arrangement here (as distinguished from the pale and threadbare virtuality so many these days mistake for that “Real McCoy”), makes it and its rhetorical stablemates a good deal less attractive to those of us raised in more fertile linguistic circumstances than they probably are to the usual fifth-grade-level reader of the NYT….present company certainly excepted.
So (and not to put too fine a point on it), however satisfying and un-confusing this article and a discussion about it (and other responses to it) might be to el jefe, the fact remains it is an article and a discussion about absolutely nothing of any actual substance, carried-on almost exclusively by persons (including the article’s author) at-best only peripherally involved in the expensively-staged events and institutionalized play-acting under such serious, but futile, consideration here.
To repeat (succinctly?): It’s all a sham. It is all make-believe. It has as much to do with what is actually at-work in The-Situation as some guy’s fantasy football team has to do with who’ll play in Superbowl XCIII….which itself has nothing whatsoever to do with anything but itself (Well, there’s always The-Money, of course.).
If all el jefe “got” from this old Savage’s offerings here was the “Man-of-La-Mancha” allusion (and even that he seemed compelled to make self-referential), perhaps the problem, if any, lies not so much in the admittedly unconventional (maybe even unorthodox….hell, maybe downright heretical) arrangement of their words. Maybe a more careful reading would reveal at least the suggestion (made rather explicit by Cervantes) that the important thing to keep in-mind about windmills is their complete and utter indifference to either the motives or methods of those who would tilt at them….and that goes double for the tilters themselves.
Then again, maybe not.
HokaHey!
Report thisBy el jefe, November 20, 2007 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Tao,
I’m not confused by the original article or the discussions I was in with the other posters. I am confused by the pseudo-mystical gibberish which you wrote. Try clearly forming a thought, and succinctly expressing it in sentence form. It will help you make whatever point you were trying to make. The only thing I got out of your stuff is that you think I’m quixotic. Every now and then a windmill needs a good jousting…
Peace and keep the rubber side down…
Report thisBy SamSnedegar, November 20, 2007 at 1:07 am Link to this comment
“...good things will happen if we just keep the war going….”
not really the point; the point is in the discussion that you won’t have, what happens if we do NOT keep on stealing oil SOMEWHERE on earth, and as long as we have to maraud in some country somewhere, why not the one in which we already have soldiers and newly built bases?
You pretend that oil doesn’t exist and had nothing to do with our predicament, but you are lying, perhaps to yourself, but perhaps not.
Unless and until you are ready to discuss the whole Iraq issue, you really ought to shut up. By trying to talk about Iraq while ignoring 100 to 300 billion barrels of oil, you make yourself a pimp for the media whores and brand yourself a fool or a liar or both.
By the way, for those who are interested, the surge was a complete success: we got the crack troops guarding the oilfields and the pipelines while the regular troops mind the insurgency store, and that is all there ever was to the surge anyway. It would have been far too obvious merely to move the crack units to the oil without some kind of cover story, and so, as Vonnegut always said, it goes.
Oh, and by the way, the war in Iraq has been and continues to be a complete success with nary a downside—- unless you hate people like I pointing out that your country covets, lies, steals, and murders.
Report thisBy TAO Walker, November 19, 2007 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment
el jefe’s (#114555) apparent puzzlement is not surprising in one even so plainly sincere who is nevertheless only “tilting at windmills.” Merely scratching at the surface of things is bound to leave one at-a-loss for some comprehensive sense of the sub-rosa forces driving the troubling “situation” that presently prevails….and which so totally dominates discussion in “places” like this.
Coming to grips with the enormity and the ruthless designs of those (lately less clandestine) forces inevitably calls into question the very foundations of a domesticated person’s half-life. It is too often so much easier just to get all worked-up about the relative merits of this or that straw-wo/man.
The defining characteristic of today’s overarching virtuality is its completely make-believe nature. Absolutely nothing about it is grounded in the Living Arrangement of Life Herownself here. It is all sham.
So those who would dispute among themselves the relative “good” or “evil” of any of its aspects are to all intents and purposes indulging in pissing matches whose only possible outcome is all involved ending-up smelly and wet. This Indian learned early in life the severely limited “benefits” of such exercises-in-futility.
If a person would rather avoid the wrenches and blows accompanying efforts to “get-to-the-bottom-of-this,” it’s probably better just to put together a fantasy sports team and “stay tuned” for the next episode of Distractions Unlimited. Always keeping in-mind, of course, that what you DON’T know can actually hurt you, and those you love, plumb to-death.
Everything in “the news” is there to obscure the precipice over which the domesticated nations are being driven….maybe, here in these latter days, stampeded is more to-the-point. Anyone not wishing to share in that fate need only STOP where they are, and let the mad rush go by. That might not be so easy, but it sure as hell ain’t complicated.
No personal reflection on el jefe, either.
HokaHey!
Report thisBy el jefe, November 19, 2007 at 4:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Rowman,
I guess you got me on the “fundamentalist” thing, although I would argue that many who define themselves as fundamentalists actually fall under the category of lunatics who missed the point of both Jesus and Muhammad. It would be nice to see fundamentalists actually follow the teachings of love and compassion to their fellow humans. The world would be a better place.
And my thanksgiving should have a little “t”. I’m all for giving thanks to that which is good around us, but I’ll keep any association to your god out of my celebration, thank you.
Report thisTAO Walker,
Uh, what?
By TAO Walker, November 19, 2007 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
Louise (#114204) gives us a sort of “hi-lites reel” look at the ongoing “human sacrifice” saga….without even mentioning the millions offered-up on the altar of “Our Ford”‘s tin god Lizzie, or tens of millions more gone to satisfy other industrial-strength profit-motives. She is definitely onto something lurking at the very dark (and corrupt) core of what is really going-on here.
This old Savage recommends whole-heartedly Leslie Marmon Silko’s CEREMONY, to anyone here with the stomach for “the awful truth” about the Human predicament that is the sub-text for nearly everything appearing here and all over “media” of every kind. Having just travelled up the length of “The Land of Enchantment,” her remarkable reminder of the roots of the death-cult ruling the virtual world-o’-hurt inhabited by nearly all of Humanity these days has served once again to provide this old Person some vital perspective on it all.
Politics, poker, and the-playoffs are nothing but a few of the manufactured distractions intended to keep stupified masses of domesticated people trudging up the blood-smeared steps of the privateers’ pyramid-scheme, to their ignominious doom. The “gods’” appetite for human suffering remains as insatiable as ever. The technical means for feeding it is more gruesomely efficient than ever.
Yet the designated sacrificial victims could shut it all down in a moment. Even Ron Reagan’s “Mommie” Nancy couldn’t resist rubbing-it-in when she reminded people they could “Just say NO!” Our captive Sisters’ and Brothers’ liberation from the killing contraption is “....just a NOT!! away.”
Meantime, here along the “soft under-belly” of the U.S.S.A., a-k-a El Paso, Texas, two-and-a-half million patiently percolating “Mexicans” consent for-the-moment to remaining restrained by a trickle of water and a “bobwire” fence. Is the recipe for “humble-pie” a steady diet of tortillas and refried beans? “Yanquis” got no home to go back to, innit?
HokaHey!
Report thisBy rowman, November 19, 2007 at 10:07 am Link to this comment
#114307 by el jefe
“Fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are the same”
Umm. No. You have lunatics exploiting religion as a basis for thier insanity. How can a “christian” be a “christian” if what they preach and do directly conflicts with what Christianity says? Same for Islam.
Your characteristic summation of these people as a “fundamentalist” is fundamentally flawed. A fundamentalist adheres to the fundamentals of the religion. What is that in Christianity? One word. Love.
You are putting the wrong labels on the wrong people.
“Lets keep God out of it, but yes have a happy Thanksgiving”
Wow. And who were the Pilgrims thanking…..?
Report thisBy cyrena, November 18, 2007 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment
#114307 by el jefe
el jefe,
BRAVO and THANK YOU for bringing these excellent points to our attention - again. We can never, ever, hear these truths too often, as the audience continues to change, and as a vigilant reminder that the truth must always prevail.
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.
Report thisBy John Borowski, November 18, 2007 at 10:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
An adjunct to my previous comment about the phony oil shortage is a murder to a gas station operator. In Detroit, a Marathon gas station operator lowered the price of gasoline from $2.97 to $2.94. The BP (British Petroleum) gas station owner across the street took umbrage about the decrease in Marathons price. The two argued about the price that eventually resulted in the shooting of the BP owner to death. On Saturday afternoon it was business as usual at the gas stations. Both resume the gasoline shortage with BP selling gas at $3.10 and Marathon selling at $3.08. For a lousy 2 cents a life was ended. It shows how the Republicans (Aka Conservatives right wingers) have vitiated society and this folks is only the beginning.
Report thisBy el jefe, November 18, 2007 at 9:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Yes, the intelligence community thought that Iraq had WMDs, but even before the war started they couldn’t find them. I find it hard to believe that GWB didn’t know that the intelligence was faulty when he sent Powell to the UN. Saddam was an evil man, but he was contained, he was not a threat to us, and he had NOTHING to do with 9/11. If we has stayed focused on Afghanistan they might be well on their way to a functioning democracy and be a stabilizing force in the region (look how Pakistan is falling apart), and we might have been able to actually catch Bin Laden. But then GWB wouldn’t have the bogeyman to scare people into supporting his Iraq policy. Going into Iraq was the first and biggest blunder, which was driven by his fundamentalist neocon views of the world. Whether or not he had WMDs, there is absolutely NO evidence that he was a threat to us.
Fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam are the same. Remember the KKK and strangefruit? Radical Christians. Have you been following the Fred Phelps issue? They picket soldier’s funerals in the name of their God. GWB and Cheney believe that they are bringing on the end of days, fulfilling prophecy, and killing people to do it. What about the evangelical summer camps where people are brainwashing children and calling for a holy war against Islam? I do have a problem with how Islam treats women, but have you been to a fundamentalist Southern Baptist wedding? It is all about how the woman is there to serve the man and be subjugate to the husband. They don’t have to wear a burka, but the view of women is the same. My point is that fundamentalism in ALL it’s forms is wrong and has been used to justify many evil acts. They all need to be called out, and rooted out of society.
Home foreclosures are at an all time high. The dollar is at an all time low. On a worldwide scale, many countries are shifting their investments into the euro and out of the dollar. Bush fudges his unemployment numbers by including military and underemployment. Most of the job growth during his time has been in minimum wage service jobs. A minimum wage that GWB and the Republicans didn’t raise for almost 10 years. Under WJC, we had a balanced budget, and although we weren’t paying off our national debt, we were on our way to being able to do so. GWB inherited a balanced budget and strong economy and has taken us back to Reaganesque levels of deficit spending.
No, I don’t like Bush, but I didn’t have to make anything up about him. I think that he has harmed our country and constitution to the point where he should be impeached (as should Cheney). History will show him as one of our worst presidents.
Let’s keep God out of it, but yes have a happy Thanksgiving.
Report thisBy John Borowski, November 18, 2007 at 6:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Tid-Bits about the phony oil shortage Tar sands - (Proper name is (oil sands - bituminous sands) - seventy countries have oil sands
Report thisSeventy-five percent of all the oil sands are in Canada and Venezuela
Both of these two countries have oil sands equal to the world’s total reserves of conventional oil.
Canada has 1.7 trillion barrels of oil sand oil.
Venezuela has 1.8 trillion barrels of oil sand oil.
There was 18 trillion barrels of oil of oil sands, but bacteria have destroyed much of it.
Largest supplier of oil in the US is Canada not the Middle East.
Canada exports over a million barrels per day to the US. When oil from the Middle East was 10 dollars a barrel and to extract the oil sands was twenty-eight dollars a barrel it wasn’t economically practical to harvest the oil sands. Now with OPEC oil heading towards two hundred dollars a barrel if Iran or Venezuela is attacked it is more than practical to work the oil sands.
For every barrel of oil that China uses in their factories, there is a factory that has been shut down in the US or Europe that no longer uses that same barrel of oil.
Since China has mostly new factories and the US or Europe antiquated ones, China gets more bounce to the ounce from that barrel of oil.
As the extractors of oil sands develop better production techniques the price of a barrel will be even more competitive.
Oil sands bring $21.75 profit per barrel, and conventional oil brings $12.41 a barrel profit.
In Venezuela it is even cheaper to extract oil sands because it is about fifty degrees warmer.
Oil sands represent 2/3 of the world’s petroleum resource.
Why is gasoline not more than twenty-five cents a gallon so we can take our Hummers into the fantasy woods? It is because the oil robber barons have brought up the oil sands to keep it in its cradle until every drop of convention oil is used up.
By GW=MCHammered, November 17, 2007 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
re: #114210 by Publius on 11/17 at 5:48 pm
Hey! Hey! Hey! Don’t offend the French. They may have to liberate us again. Italian Mafia never would. They’re Republicans.
http://www.jibjab.com/view/80518
Now facts? You mean like:
Most wealth has migrated to the Top 5%? Even the Germans complain about asset/pay disparity. It’s global.
The 8 million US men who have quit looking for work according to the NYT. That brings unemployment into the 10% range. Feels closer to right. And talk about progressive! Certainly explains Customer Service.
Gas prices tripled under Bush. That would make the Federal Minimum Wage over $15 per hour.
Been to the store lately? INFLATION IS A TAX. ON THE POOR.
Federal Debt skyrocketed. For what? The infrastructure is crumbling!
Our material addiction made <u>Communist</u> China the fastest growing economy (and army) in the world.
Any economic boom can be attributed to foreign generosity… their loans to us. And they’re about to stop lending - http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,517060,00.html
Home <u>abandonment</u> is at a record high.
National Savings Rate is below zero.
Canadian Dollar now equals US Dollar.
Health care is unaffordable and those covered, under-covered. “There are 47 million Americans without health insurance and another 17 million with coverage that will not pay for the treatments necessary to fight cancer and other very serious diseases.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/opinion/03herbert.html?n=Top/Reference/Times Topics/Organizations/A/American Cancer Society
Illegal aliens are now ‘undocumented immigrants.’ We might as well call a drug dealer an ‘unlicensed pharmacist.’
And worst of all, Capitol Hill is a place of no accountability and thus, no respectability. That is the US under GW: <u>M</u>iddle <u>C</u>lass Hammered.
John Lennon sang it like a premonition:
I’m sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
I’ve had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
Money for dope
Money for rope
I’m sick to death of seeing things
From tight-lipped, condescending, mamas little chauvinists
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth now
I’ve had enough of watching scenes
Of schizophrenic, ego-centric, paranoiac, prima-donnas
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth
No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
It’s money for dope
Money for rope
Ah, I’m sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
I’ve had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
—————————-
Now more than ever!
Report thisBy Inherit The Wind, November 17, 2007 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment
The problem with sticking your foot in a bucket of shit is that you can’t just pull it out again without making a crappy mess all over.
And you have a lot of cleaning up to do. Plus you may well catch a disease, even an incurable one.
But if you don’t, you’re stuck in a bucket of shit.
The bucket is the war in Iraq.
Report thisBy Publius, November 17, 2007 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
El Jefe, with all due respect, there really isn’t very much that is accurate with your post.
American intelligence, British intelligence, French intelligence and Russian intelligence all thought that Iraq had WMD. Bill Clinton and Al Gore, while they held office and after they left office, thought that Iraq had WMD. Clearly that turned out to be wrong, but it doesn’t change the fact that the global intelligence community thought that Iraq was a threat. Bush has made some monumental blunders in fighting the war in Iraq, but he would have been irresponsible if he hadn’t attacked.
Your attempt to equate radical Islam with Christianity is faulty as well. When the American media and entertainment industries ridicule Christianity, as happens quite frequently, nobody dies. Christians don’t kill people who disagree with them. The Bible doesn’t call for the murder of anyone who doesn’t convert to Christianity. Christians don’t behead their opponents, or murder women if they don’t behave “appropriately.” There really isn’t any comparison between Christianity and Islam.
As for the economy—-unemployment is at a record low, home ownership is at a record high and the American economy has experienced growth for 50 consecutive months. The deficit stands at 1.2% of GDP, which is lower than the 40-year average. Real wages increased by 1.2% over the last year, which is better than the average rate during the 90’s. Real after-tax per capita personal income has risen by 12.7 percent an average of over $3,800 per person since President Bush took office. The economy isn’t tanking. We are in the midst of an economic boom of historical proportions, and it is due to the Bush tax cuts. Each and every American should be grateful that we have a president who understands economics and the free market.
I can appreciate the fact that you don’t like Pres. Bush. There’s a lot that I don’t like about him. That doesn’t mean, though, that it’s OK for you to make things up about him. Please stick with the facts.
God bless you, and have a happy Thanksgiving!
Report thisBy Verne Arnold, November 17, 2007 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment
#114204 by Louise on 11/17 at 4:43 pm
(280 comments total)
Pentagon Cover Up:
15,000 or more US casualties in Iraq War
Yes, I’ve been waiting for this to show up in TD…where is it? It means the true cost of the war now exceeds 45,000 dead and maimed. Horrifying!
This story appeared for 1 day ans has since dissappeared…curious.
Report thisWe the people remain asleep at the wheel.
By Louise, November 17, 2007 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment
Pentagon Cover Up:
15,000 or more US casualties in Iraq War
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18737.htm
By Mike Whitney
“11/17/07 “ICH”——The Pentagon has been concealing the true number of American casualties in the Iraq War. The real number exceeds 15,000 and CBS News can prove it.
CBSs Investigative Unit wanted to do a report on the number of suicides in the military and submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the Department of Defense. After 4 months they received a document which showed—that between 1995 and 2007—there were 2,200 suicides among active duty soldiers.
Baloney.
The Pentagon was covering up the real magnitude of the suicide epidemic. Following an exhaustive investigation of veterans suicide data collected from 45 states; CBS discovered that in 2005 alone THERE WERE AT LEAST 6,256 AMONG THOSE WHO SERVED IN THE ARMED FORCES. THATS 120 EACH AND EVERY WEEK IN JUST ONE YEAR.
We can assume that “multiple-tours of duty” in a war-zone have precipitated a mental health crisis of which the public is entirely unaware and which the Pentagon is in total denial.
If we add the 6,256 suicide victims from 2005 to the official 3,865 reported combat casualties; we get a sum of 10,121. Even a low-ball estimate of similar 2004 and 2006 suicide figures, would mean that the total number of US casualties from the Iraq war now exceed 15,000.
Thats right; 15,000 dead US servicemen and women in a war that—as yet—has no legal or moral justification.
Maybe its perfectly normal for young men and women to return from combat, sink into inconsolable depression, and kill themselves at greater rates than they were dying on the battlefield. Maybe its normal for the Pentagon to abandon them as soon as soon they return from their mission so they can blow their brains out or hang themselves with a garden hose in their basement. Maybe it’s normal for politicians to keep funding wholesale slaughter while they brush aside the casualties they have produced by their callousness and lack of courage. Maybe it is normal for the president to persist with the same, bland lies that perpetuate the occupation and continue to kill scores of young soldiers who put themselves in harms-way for their country. “
***
Human sacrifice was perfectly normal thousands of years ago when parents were forced to murder their children so the King could feel his power.
Human sacrifice was normal in the dark ages when “holy” men fighting to gain control of gods church and the churches wealth sent thousands to die in their wars of lust.
Human sacrifice was normal when Napoleon decided to ordain himself Emperor of the world and lead thousands to their death to verify his grandiose pretense.
Human sacrifice was normal when Hitler decided it was time to kill everyone that didn’t fit his warped mold of right.
And now we have this little pretender to the thrown who gets his jolly’s playing “war president” and visiting those who survived his onslaught on reason.
Now that fat putz Rove, a monumental loser if ever there was one, is thrusting himself back in our faces. We can be sure these practitioners of human sacrifice have no intention of crawling back into the woodwork.
The perfect Fascists. Praise the abnormal and send in the human sacrifices.
If I believe in anything, I think I believe in reincarnation! Because these rats keep coming back!
What are we fighting for? A pretend kings weak ego. A foul fascists lust for power. A diversion so we wont notice they have already looted the treasury, trashed the Constitution ... and we the people are next in the line of fire.
We fight for the Oligarchy. May they all rot in hell, and quit coming back!
Check out the video at: CBS News Suicide Epidemic among Veterans http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml
Report thisBy felicity, November 17, 2007 at 11:25 am Link to this comment
Why will be in Iraq forever, or at least until Bush/Cheney leave DC? Aside from Bush’s ego - losing a war plays hell with the ego - and aside from the oil, are the likes of Halliburton.
For the last six years the US government has been Halliburton’s personal ATM. So far, and counting, it has withdrawn $20 billion in Iraq contracts alone. (To show their deep gratitude to US taxpayers, it has moved its corporate headquarters to Dubai - with all the attendant tax and legal benefits.) The Nation. 11/26/07
That depressing information aside, it’s the Iraqi people who have been dealing fatal blows to Al Qaeda, not our military. Never makes the ‘news’ for obvious reasons.
Report thisBy Hammo, November 17, 2007 at 8:23 am Link to this comment
“Success” can be measured in various ways. Some people claim that the purposes of the invasion and occupation of Iraq were to:
- Be in a position to access Iraq’s oil
- Create a permanent base for a US military presence in the region
- Do the bidding of US “allies” in the region
- Create a vehicle to pour millions or billions of dollars into war and defense-related US corporations
- Develop a deception apparatus to lie to the American people and the international community
- Create a “war mentality” as an excuse to rob the American people of more of their Consitutional rights
By these measures, the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been “successful.”
- Though we haven’t grabbed Iraqi oil yet, there are many efforts underway to do so.
- The permanent US bases and huge embassy are being completed and are operating
- Billions of dollars have gone to Halliburton, Blackwater and many others.
- etc., etc.
Related views in the articles ...
“Mind wars: Americans, global community are targets of deception on Iraq, threats to peace”
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=14097
- - -
“Iraq War psychology: Exploring hearts and minds of American officials, journalists, average people”
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=13668
Report thisBy el jefe, November 17, 2007 at 7:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Publius,
We lost the focus on that fight when we turned from Afghanistan to Iraq. Most of the world supported us going into Afghanistan, only those we bullied supported going into Iraq. Iraq was under control of a horrible regime, but THEY WERE NOT A THREAT, they had nothing to do with attacking us, and weren’t a particularly fundamentalist country.
Islam isn’t a violent religion. Fundamentalists (of any denomination) are the ones that become the savage, homicidal ones. Look at what the fundamentalist Christians are calling for in this country. It’s no different. But you do have one point, the peaceful members of Islam (or Christianity) who refuse to condemn and fight against the radical fundamentalists are culpable in the take over of religion, and the destruction of a number of countries.
Bush is tanking our economy to further his own fundamentalist neocon agenda. If our country survives his attack, he will be seen as the worst president in history.
Report thisBy Publius, November 16, 2007 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
It seems pretty simple to me. We’re fighting to keep the forces of radical Islam (or Islamo-fascism, if you will) from destroying America.
Islam is a savage, homicidal religion that has very clearly told the world that they intend to murder anyone who won’t convert. The peaceful members of that homicidal religion refuse to condemn the terrorists, and they refuse to fight against them.
This seems to be a no-brainer. We fight in self defense, or we die.
And by the way, the surge, under the command of Gen. Petraeus and Commander-In-Chief Bush, is working. Iraq is becoming more stable and less violent every day.
Report thisBy bachubhai, November 16, 2007 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Barry Bonds may end up in prison for lying about his steroid use. However the so called leaders who lied and led the US in to a war will end up pocketing millions if not billions. This is a delicious irony and I love it.
Report thisBy rowdy, November 16, 2007 at 9:11 pm Link to this comment
dust in the wind; all we are is dust in the wind. “kansas” 1977. a really wimpy assed group. where are they today?
Report thisBy DennisD, November 16, 2007 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
EJ - since our country has outsourced almost every other job it possibly could and is working on those that are still left. WAR - is what’s driving Wall St. - that’s what its good for, so get used to it.
Cost to the Taxpayers - Equals Profit for Business. It’s just corporate welfare on a grander scale than usual. It’s the junk bonds of the 80’s reborn and resold under the label of patriotism.
Report thisBy thomas billis, November 16, 2007 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Great EJ discuss a cost analysis of Iraq and leave out the only reason we went in and the only reason we are staying.Oil Oil Oil.If we do not understand the real reasons we can never discuss a solution.If Alan Greenspan in his book says it before he felt the heat to qualify it why is it so hard for other people to understand that it is oil oil oil.Everything else is bullshit so the American people will not come to the conclusion that its government was more than willing to sacrifice its young fighting people for a commodity.Even the Democrats cannot see get out before 2013 because they think it will take that long to secure the Iraqi oilfields.The rest of the world knows why we are in Iraq.Only the poorly informed American public buys that we are in there for anything different than OIL OIL OIL.EJ before you do another cost analysis of Iraq please include oil in the equation so in 5 years you will not have to write a mea culpa.
Report thisBy Daniel Barker, November 16, 2007 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
What are we doing about it. You write about corporate profit. The Soviet Union also invaded war in Afghanstan for the same reason: power and the demand for oil.
Do you drive an SUV? Do you have more than two children by choice? Growth and development mean more demand for oil. Do you eat too much meat - you know PETA states it takes forty times the fossil fuel as soybean.
Do you transport by rail, or do you use airmail for delivery? Do you support Amtrak or do you drive or fly instead?
Our personal choices provide the money for corporations. When we stop using oil we will stop the illegal wars.
Report thisBy Howard, November 16, 2007 at 4:58 pm Link to this comment
RE: #113900 by Inherit The Wind on 11/16 at 3:05 am
===================================
ITW, WELL SAID…..
Report thisBy QuyTran, November 16, 2007 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment
We’re fighting for nothing or for losing. Remember the Viet Nam war ? We have been created a huge bunch of corrupted officials then led this tiny country to fall down into communists ! AFTER AMERICANIZED THE WAR, THE DELUGE !
Report thisBy mary, November 16, 2007 at 7:38 am Link to this comment
The human cost to our troops and their families will be beyond any calculation here. Thousands will never recover fully. There isn’t anyone on this planet, except maybe the media warmongers, who doesn’t see this moron for what he is, and yet he’s still doing it all. It truly boggles the mind. RIght now my biggest concern is when I, personally, will give up. After watching last night’s debate, it’s clear Wolf and Friends still don’t get it. These freaks aren’t part of the elite rich, and never will be, yet they can’t see how much damage their mindless questions are doing to the process of selecting the next leader of the not so free world. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL HE/SHE IS GOING TO DO TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE, INCLUDING GETTING US OUT OF IRAQ NOW. AND A PLEDGE TO INVESTIGATE AND CHARGE THESE TWO CRIMINAL MORONS, PERIOD. This is not hard stuff, but I need to know who and how!!!!!
Report thisBy Micheal Collins, November 16, 2007 at 6:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
He or she who supports a State organized in the military way whether directly or indirectly participates in the sin. Each man old or young takes part in the sin by contributing to the maintenance of the State by paying taxes. Withholding payment of taxes is one of the quickest methods of overthrowing a government. - Mahatma Gandhi
Report thisBy Michael Collins, November 16, 2007 at 5:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Congress’s powers are enumerated in Section Eight: To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years.
Resist! Refuse the war tax. Protest and refuse. It is an American Patriot’s responsibility. Historical precedents abound! Let us stand our ground.
Report thisBy racer, November 16, 2007 at 4:16 am Link to this comment
THE TITLE SHOULD BE
(WHY ARE WE FIGHTING TO MAKE THE GLOBAL ELITE RICHER)
THE MEDIA’S MASS DECEPTION AND MISINFORMATION IS WHAT GOT US IN TO THIS OIL WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THEY ARE CONTROLLED BY THE GLOBALIST, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO CONTROL,OUR GOVERNMENT, CANDIDATES, OUR MONEY, AND NEXT THE WORLDS OIL SUPPLY, GLOBALIST, GOOGLE CFR, AND TC, AND FIND OUT,OR IF YOU WANT TO GO IN DEPTH TRY FREEMASONRY.
Report thisBy cyrena, November 16, 2007 at 3:08 am Link to this comment
President Bush regularly brags about the accomplishments of the troop surge. Its certainly true that our troops have performed superbly. Lets be happy that, albeit at great cost, the overall levels of violence in Iraq have dropped and that al-Qaida in Iraq is weaker today than it was some months ago.
Can we do a REAL comparison here? Shouldnt we be comparing these overall levels of violence and the alleged strength of al-Qaeda, (now or ever) to the same BEFORE the invasion and occupation, and that sovereign nation? Like, when the whatever violence was limited to political enemies of Saddam, and the desperation created by US imposed economic sanctions on the entire populace? And like when al-Qaeda DIDNT EXIST in Iraq? Because, that was the case BEFORE we spent the $1.3 trillion, and BEFORE nearly 4,000 of our troops had died, and before another 100,000 minimum had been wounded, (most permanently) and before wed killed at least 1 million Iraqis, and displaced another 4 million, and left them without basic human survival services like food, water, housing, and medicine/medical services.
So, shouldnt we consider thats how our 1.3 trillion has been spent? Weve spent it CREATING a situation that didnt exist before, and well still be spending/paying for it for the next 50 years if not longer. In other words, weve spent all of this money on DESTRUCTION, and created the conditions that george now claims have improved.
So, IMPROVED compared to WHAT?
Splain to me again how STAYING there (ever since the beginning) is going to continue to improve anything, when all thats happened is all of this destruction.
So, why did we ever do this unprovoked invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation to begin with? Well, it was to steal the OIL. And, how much does fuel cost now, as compared to then. Well, its roughly 500% MORE expensive now, depending of course on where you live and who you are.
So, tell me again whats IMPROVED. No, no. He says that they are ACCOMPLISHMENTS. So, somebody PLEASE point them out. Im missing something here.
Report thisBy Inherit The Wind, November 16, 2007 at 3:05 am Link to this comment
Bring General Erik Shinseki back from retirement and give him carte blanche in Iraq. Either draft one million young men, go to a war production footing and enact a full-scale operation,
Or do the right thing and start getting the HELL out!
Mad King George is to arrogant, stupid, ignorant and cowardly to admit that EVERY SINGLE STEP he took in Iraq was the WORST POSSIBLE ONE from the day he and his team of cronies decided invading Iraq was necessary. They decided it the day Gore conceded, long before Bill Clinton vacated the White House. They searched and searched for an excuse, and finally, on Sept 11, 2001, they had it. By Sept 12, the spin machine was planning the spin-up.
The ONLY single decision President Mussolini made I agreed with was to go into Afghanistan after Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The WORLD agreed with us—from our NATO allies, to Russia, and even Iran—who offered to help us and was insultingly spurned.
Of course, in usual George Bush fashion, even his ONE good decision was botched by his fundamental corruption, dishonesty, sociopathy and incompetence: to weaken our forces in Afghanistan to begin this awful, illegal, unnecessary war in Iraq. We’ve lost Iraq and probably will lose Afghanistan BACK to the Taliban again. And Al Qaeda is still out there.
Report thisBy GW=MCHammered, November 15, 2007 at 11:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
“cost-benefit analysis”
5-years late paralysis
“resident Bush regularly brags about the accomplishments”
Cemetery relishments
“military success will produce a decent outcome down the road.”
A million Iraqis dead, sleep tight in that abode
“Youd think that facing the verdict of history, not simply an election, the president would be more serious about these things.”
Report thisWhat frigging planet are you from, Serious Election History B’dadda Bings?