#112696 by Ernest Canning

Ernest, thanks so much for the link. It was excellent. And, I’m assuming you saw the interview that Amy Goodman had with Dennis Kucinich as well, since TD has so graciously posted it here for us.

I signed several petitions on the afterdowningstreet site while I was there. Had lots to say about Richard B. Cheney. I figure I’m already ‘under surveillance’ so it can’t get a whole lot worse. Still, just make sure if you guys don’t hear from me for any extended period of time, send help, (like a counter-rendition team).

I’m really proud of our Congressional Reps. (notice we have a substantial showing of our California ladies and gentleman who’ve sponsored this resolution) I’m delighted. (still pissed at Nancy though, and that’s not likely to change – ever.)

As for rowman, I’ve done a reassessment. His intelligence may be questionable, but his insanity is not. He’s crazy as a loon and a danger to society at large. Matter of fact, I think he’s a candidate for a ticking bomb perpetrator. So, we need to send blackwater to capture him, and then do some ‘enhanced interrogation’ (no torture, because that’s illegal) But for now, waterboarding would appear to be acceptable in his case. Mukasey still doesn’t know it’s torture, so I guess it’s good enough for rowman.

So, we’ll let that be cheney’s final act…he can order the detention and ‘enhanced interrogation’ of rowman, (either by his handpicked CIA goons, or the goons from blackwater) as he has done so many times before. Then, as soon as he’s impeached, we arrest his ass too. Eventually, we’ll get ‘em all.

I’ll set up the tribunal, and let you know as soon as I get a date, so you can mark it on your calendar.

#112629 Rae:

I agree with most your post but think I have tweaked it up a little better: {"If we’re created in “His” image he is as screwed up as we are.” Rae’s} Not quite Rae, since we as individuals can only screw up a little bit, on the other hand you times that screw-up by every person on the planet who was created in “His” image and that means that “He” has screwed up billions upon billions of more times than any one of us could ever do and over a lot longer period of time, not say the average life span of maybe 78 years or so, and will continue to do so long after we are all gone. So he had to be really messed up from the get-go. And look at all those anger issues in the Old Testament, it is obvious that God could not control his temper and often broke one of his very own commandments-thou shall not kill-on to numerous occasions to list them all here. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black or do as I say, not as I do syndrome And if we as humans are so full of sin and are made in “His” image what does that tell us?
I have always said that is man was made in Gods image then he must have been a pretty poor example to begin with.

#112693 Cyrena:

Fear not. Winter is on its way, we already have snow here in Michigan, and it’s time for all good bears and even the bad ones to go into hibernation for the winter. Now off to bed (your cave) like the rest of the bears. And if rowman cannot share your winter diggs with you, perhaps he can climb into his boat and row his way to the Persian Gulf for a vacation. I am certain the people will welcome him with OPEN ARMS.

Doug Chalmers: Sorry I spelled your name wrong. I really need new glasses but my insurance says next winter. It’s been over 3 years now and it’s medically long over due. But that’s how these insurance companies make their money, denying the proper medical treatments people need.

THE GREATEST DANGER TO THIS WORLD IS ORGANIZED RELIGION. ANYONE’S

#112620 by VillageElder on 11/09 at 3:02 pm: “...This aspect of Christianity shares with Islam an aggressive conversion doctrine - convert as sword point. Religious freedom should also provide us with freedom from religion.  Democracy NOT Theocracy...”

People talk blithely and glibly about “democracy” in comparison to “religion” but they fail to understand that the same thing essentially happens. ONE party is chosen and the effect is a “one-party rule” for the other 49% of the population.

That is NOT freedom! And it is NOT “freedom from” the one-party states systems the USA is/was so fond of criticizing such as Russia once was and China still is. No wonder that the USA now has Blackwater and the USAF’s “Holy Warriors for Jesus” supporting fascism, etc etc......

#112621 by tyler on 11/09 at 3:02 pm: “...Religion should be banned from politics, and any other public forum, period....”

Yes, but how about banning politics from religion, tyler? That is what is happening today - as it was 1,000 years ago during the idiotic Christian crusades. Its all a show to lull the people at home and to deceive them into believeing how great their leaders are - and it always was!

Well, you have a point Cyrena.  At times, I’ve been able to step back and chuckle at rowman’s lack of intelligence, but then I always come back to thinking that his is the type of mindlessness that you would have seen from those standing at the torch lit parades in Germany during the 1930s.

On a more positive note, if you haven’t watched it yet, go to

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/cheney

Scroll down to the video which contains Dennis Kucinich’s Nov. 5 introduction of the articles of impeachment against Cheney.  It’s quite impressive.  In fact, it should be broadcast without interruption on every major network, but then, if it was, Kucinich would win in a landslide--precisely why it won’t be broadcast over the corporate media.

• #112645 by Ernest Canning
“Is there no article at Truthdig that has not been infected by the mindless virus known as rowman?”
Ernest,
And at first, I was just gonna say – NO -. It would seem that he’s pretty much everywhere we look, and pretty stomach churning, to say the least.
But then, after doing some work for an unrelated project, I came to the decision that he may indeed serve a purpose, not unlike a flu shot. As we know, most virus inoculations have a bit of the ‘virus’ itself, in the preparation. Supposedly, it provides the body with an ‘immunity’ of sorts, so that should they be exposed to a fuller version of it at some point in time, they will have this ‘immunity’ from having had the virus already injected into their systems, and thereby be able to fight off any future exposures; or, at least make the future contacts less disastrous.
Now of course rowman is more like an extra strong version of that virus, and probably enough to at least temporarily disable those who are totally without an immune system, (like the very innocent or naïve). But for the majority, I think he acts as a pretty good variable for what should pretty much keep everybody on their toes. And, it seems to work pretty well, if you cruise through the comments. Matter of fact, I found the responses to him, (from so many other posters) to be very uplifting. It shows that our populace, and our fellow citizens are NOT stupid, and NOT fooled, and NOT naïve, and very intelligent, with excellent insight and character analysis capabilities. So, that’s good.
That said, I should make it clear that this is not an ENCOURAGEMENT, (just like I don’t really recommend the flu shot for most of the public). And, it would certainly be perfectly OK with me, if he never shows his name again, or writes anymore of his pornography. On the other hand, at least we have a defense for it, and quite a strong one, judging from the character and depth of the responses. So, that’s one way to look at it.

#112596 by Robert Giacobbe
Robert,
I had no idea we’d disagreed in the past, but you’re right, it’s gotta be secondary. In fact, disagreement isn’t really such a bad thing. I actually welcome it, (in the right settings) because for lots of people, it’s the only way they learn of any other opinions, or even any other facts. Besides, I’m sort of a professional arguer. Well, no…take that back. I’m more like a wanna-be professional arguer, or maybe ‘arguer-in-training’. I once had a professor ask a fellow student why he wanted to be a lawyer, when he hated to argue. Gee, that was MY clue to decide that it would be ‘just the thing’ for me. I love it!!

I’ve since changed my mind, at least until we get back to maybe, possibly, actually using the rule of law. I mean, what the hell good does it do to learn all of this stuff, (the law) if nobody pays any attention to it anyway? Makes me wonder if there’s only a few of us left with a mostly intact copy of the Constitution. Meantime, all is not lost, since I have another professor colleague that gets all impatient with our ‘laid back’ mentality in California. She’s from the east, and complains that she can’t find anybody to fight with out here. So, just as an occasional ‘fix’ for her, we’ll start an argument or so from time to time.

Anyway, if you remember, let me know whatever we disagreed on. I may have changed my mind by now. On the more important issue, yes….the Driving Bear needs to be driven back into his cave, and he can bring rowman with him. Or, maybe the bear can row the man. Or..whatever. As long as they just go back to whatever rocks they crawled out from under, and stay there, so as not to continue to poison the rest of the atmosphere.

On the other hand, like I mentioned to Ernest Canning, they can at least serve a useful purpose, as an example of who/what/how NOT to be.

Is there no article at Truthdig that has not been infected by the mindless virus known as rowman?

The Christian crazies have always been there, but it’s important to realize what has empowered them. Important impediments have been removed.

Most importantly, one of their natural enemies, the Jewish community, has been removed as an effective obstacle, because Christian crazies have taken up the right-wing Likudnik position on Israel, aligning them with the leadership of the major Jewish organizations (even though ordinary Jews are more liberal in their positions than their self-annointed leaders).

America’s militant Christian right used to be checked politically by, among other things, our liberal Jewish community.

But now that the right-wing leadership of the major Jewish organizations, the rest of the Israel lobby, and the Christian right have joined forces in pushing for their radical Middle East war agenda, there seems little to stop the cancer of religious militarism from destroying America.

“We all sin. We are all guilty of sin.”

This is PURE BULLSHIT, rowman. It is the fundamental assumption of Christianity… start with GUILT and go from there. Once you’ve got them on their knees, convinced they’re no good, you can fleece them till the cows come home. Great strategy… for bullies, thieves and con artists.

I admit, SOME humans are pure evil. A VERY FEW are so angelic as to not-to-be believed! But MOST OF US are complex combinations of situational good and bad - that’s the NORMAL HUMAN CONDITION and we have NO APOLOGIES TO MAKE TO ANYONE or ANY “MAKER” for it. That’s the way we are and we don’t have to beg forgiveness from anyone or any"thing".

Has anyone but me noticed the inherent incongruency and irony in the assumption that some omnipotent, PERFECT “being” created us and everything else IN HIS IMAGE, and we turn out DEFECTIVE? What bullshit! If we’re created in “HIS” image, then HE’S as SCREWED UP AS WE ARE!

You can’t have it both ways, fundies!

Chris G.

“-There was nothing mindless about our nuclear attacks on Japan.  You probably believe you’re educated so I’ll pay you the compliment of not exlpaining it to you.”

You appear to have no knowledge that the participants at all levels in the Manhattan Project were at moral odds with what they were doing. If you’d ever read anything regarding Robert Oppenheimer and his life leading up to and following the war, you wouldn’t use the term mindless. Some have described the bombings as unnecessary but that is at best conjecture and those questioning were never in danger of being asked to invade Japan. There is no comparing the bombing of Japan with brainwashing pilots to accept they will at some point be bombing for Jesus.

Great, you picked up on Hemi being short for hemisphere. Exactly that with no ties to any engine. Long story and not necessary here. You on the other hand are “Chris” short for Christian? We’ll let the irony slide, you’re an atheist that accepts religious hazing. Oh yeah, not cowardly, simply survival of the fittest. I should have known. Congratulations you survived!

You come in throwing around the O’Reilly attitude, “I said my prayers like a good little atheist” and punctuate your rant with “bloviate” and then take offense that other commenters (I’m not alone) picked up on your O’Reilly worship. I was also implying Billy boy was your “invisible friend” but that went over your non-theist head. You can’t hide your wings Chris, right-wings. O’Reilly and Rush have the same stance on questioning the path of the military.

“The Naval Academy graduates 800 people every year, many of whom (myself included) go on to do nothing overly important.”

And that makes you the perfect candidate to criticize David Antoon and his take on the state of the Air Force Academy.

Happy Holidays Chris (Bill would hate that!)

This article ties in with discussion of the Blackwater folks in several scary ways.

#112288 by cyrena on 11/08 at 4:17 am

Cyrena - I’ve enjoyed your commentary on this.  Some of your phrases remind me of my stepdaughter, and my wife has had a few chuckles.

The Christian Right (christies) have had a stealth agenda for years,as announced by Pat Robert$on.  In elections they run without announcing their bias.  They take over school boards removing books which they consider satanic from the libraries, e.g., books by Richard Scary(sp?).  This infiltration of the military is not good.  It gives authoritar1ans yet another method of control over their charges.  The prospect of another round of “Holy Warriors for Jesus” supporting fascism is truly frightening.

Blackwater was founded by the scion of a theo-con family and has a high percentage of christies.  These are troops available for use without the constitutional restraints which our armed services should respect.

This aspect of Christianity shares with Islam an aggressive conversion doctrine - convert as sword point.

Religious freedom should also provide us with freedom from religion. 

Democracy NOT Theocracy

Shawn Smith,
You cannot lump all Christians together and accuse them of this. There are many denominations and individuals that do live up to the tenants of Christianity and do to the best of their ability try to adhere to Christian values. What you are referring to is fringe (small) groups who call themselves Christians but are not. The author here is biased against Christians and you have to take it with a grain of salt.

We all sin. We are all guilty of sin. Start with the Ten Commandments and work your way to the Mosaic Law. We are all guilty. It was the Messiah’s purpose to free us from the law as no one can be justified before G-d by it. This gives you a path to sanctification and by this, a new law is placed on your heart. Everything in this law is by its very core, good. G-d is good. Is there a single commandment that you could point to that is bad? No, you can’t.

So long as the USAF cadet doctrine they are practicing is correct, only good can come from it. I am sure there are many doctrines represented but the author fails by lumping them all together.

And by the way, all of this chaotic mess you see in the world, it is as indented and will be until his return.

Why does an omnipotent God need an air force anyway?

I just don’t get it.

Interesting comments, not the least for what has been completely overlooked.

From this open-eyed viewpoint, it seems hypocritical, to say the least, to get worked up over religious proselytizing while completely ignoring the political, social and moral coercion that every soldier undergoes. This brainwashing is the sine qua non of all military training. 

What is the difference between a cadet fighting for Christianity and capitalism, and a Vietcong guerilla fighting for Communism and Buddhism? Both stand for belief sets that can be challenged, studied, proven effective or ineffective, logical or illogical. In time, both belief sets may be completely invalidated in mainstream thinking.

Everyone who fights, fights for a belief. Some say there are no atheists in foxholes. It’s true in this sense: a genuine atheist, is someone who treats ALL dogmatic belief systems, be they political, social, religious etc, as fair game for a rigorous and unbiased criticism.

I suspect that some of you are secretly comforted that American soldiers are Full Metal Jacket style automatons. You assume that fighting FOR a belief set makes them more effective, and you may be correct.

But I’ll take the WWII soldier any day. Those who came to the reasonable, and logical conclusion that some belief sets are dangerous enough to fight AGAINST.

Spiritual awareness can be helpful when done in a reasonable and intelligent way.

When it is part of a kind of coercive “brainwashing” that is apparently going on at the Air Force Academy, it is destructive.

Understanding human consciousness and its potential is important, if not crucial. New discoveries in this area are surprising.

Military leaders need to get up to speed on this and get away from the evangelical mind control.

Those truly interested in spirituality and connection to a larger spiritual force and intelligence can find better ways to do this.

Information related to this in the two articles ...

“Emerging discoveries in human consciousness may change many global activities”

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle. asp?articleID=27957

- - -

“Amazing enhanced human perception abilities are emerging, say researchers”

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle. asp?articleID=20423

the USAFA cadets may be more religious (unfortunately) but they are definitely not more ‘christian’.

I think the author got it entirely correct. Cancer.

btw, ‘bear’ ain’t got a clue as to what ‘secular’ means. Nor, for that matter, “sour grapes” - since he or she misapplies it. Use a dictionary, ‘Bear’.

Further, I am a follower of Christ’s teachings and I am an actual conservative. So, I don’t what ‘bear’ is but it is certainly not Christian and certainly not a true conservative. Sounds more neoconish to me.

#112441 by Robert Giacobbe

• In regards to #112428 by driving bear, help me understand exactly what you believe you’ve won in this struggle.
I’m sure you’ll give some bullshit answer about eternal salvation, so let me tell you what I think the so-called christian conservatives have won:
Robert Giacobbe,
You have just made my day, (and it’s EARLY no less) Yep you win the prize, since I’m framing this in gold. Oh, I do love it. I don’t want to repost the entire thing, but can I just redo my absolute favorites, and can we make sure to copy rowman in on this as well. (I mean, he and DB are in the same pod, rowman is especially fond of torture) So, here are my absolute favorites….
• —The right to subjugate women because your little-dick syndrome prevents you from being a real man and treating the opposite sex as an equal partner, someone with which to enjoy life
That’s favorite #1. How did you tag them both so well? It’s like you’re a mind reader.

• - The right to stumble about like idiots and blather on with your idiotic “theories” on complex topics like evolution, embryology, and geology

This is favorite #2. (though I admit they’re all so on target, that it’s hard to pick)

Now Driving Bear is really good at this one. He emphatically states that there is NO WAY that Christian Conservatives, (read right-radical lunatics) are gonna ‘stand by” while a million babies are murdered by abortion, (or something like that). Doesn’t matter if he knows their mothers, or if he even knows that they’re pregnant, or that he’ll never see any of them, (even if they’re born) and he DAMN sure doesn’t want any of his tax dollars (if he pays taxes) spent on them, after their born. No health care either. None of that. All he knows is that there’s no way that Christian Conservatives are gonna ‘stand-by’ and let that happen.

• - The right to be the laughing stock for the rest of civilized society
- And the right to be trounced in any kind of public debate that you would dream of entering when it comes to evangelizing your particular brand of bullshit.

I combined these two, but they’re close in content, and this is exactly what it is. Goes with the little-dick syndrome. These types always have the biggest guns. They probably sleep with ‘em.

Meantime, Driving Bear isn’t worried about any of this stuff. He’s already said that he ‘stands by” whatever bullshit it was that he was ‘standing-by’ before. So, at least he’s consistent in being the laughing stock for the rest of civilized society.

Oh my. This was enjoyable. Thanks again.

#112511 by Shawn Smith

Thanks Shawn Smith,

This is an excellent post. I will share it with those Christians that I know and love, whom I refuse to allow to be swept up into the madness, corruption and perversion of whatever it is these evildoing Evangelicals are selling.

Well, at least that’s what I’ve been trying to do. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t. It just depends on how many of them are actually able to think for themselves, and haven’t become indoctrinated to Christianity as a political party movement.

Now THOSE are some hateful folks.

#112513 by Francis Norton on 11/09 at 12:22 am: “...As a card-carrying atheist of Catholic origin I was really impressed with this article until I got to the phrase:- COO Schmitz, another Naval Academy graduate, is a member of the Order of Malta, a Christian supremacist organization dating back to the Crusades...”

That’s very interesting that you should pick up on the Knights of Malta, Francis Norton, as it it the historical point of diversion from the military to a medical fraternity. In other words, they were an organization of naturopaths and physicians and had little originally to do with ‘the military” except that they were set up to treat their wounds and so forth during the “Christian crusades”.

Even their name had nothing to do with “knights” (The Knights of Malta) or “orders of chivalry” and they were simply the “Ordre des Hospitaliers”. What is chivalry anyway except a bunch of smelly old horse soldiers who presumed to be better than their fellows because the knight was awarded a few acres of land to keep a couple of horses on and a servant to look after them?

That is how things were organized in those days but it was another matter that the Order of Malta then morphed into some kind of military organization itself although perhaps actually only a kind of garrison guard. The Catholic church only took over at a much later date as they often did. Having its own order and, thus, princes was how utterly arrogant the Roman church really was.

Therefore, in the terms of the USAF, the Order of Malta is indeed once again being misused as “a Christian supremacist organization” and its relationship to the era of the Christian “crusades” is also possibly being misinterpreted to align certain individuals with their contemporary conquering hero, Bush the Texan Idiot.

Although the Order was to Malta like Columbus was to Cuba, the island has little strategic relevance today compared even with a place like Diego Garcia. Again, it was far more significant, strategically, when the Europeans were contending with the Arabs and the Turks in those days long past. Today, the US military is just plain confused with its own self-importance!

But, as you say, perhaps we should remember “a Glorious Tradition” and try to get the mad bombers of the world, the USAF to understand as well, uhh.

Quote: “Medicine replaces the sword as the Order of Malta continues to heal the sick and assist the poor across the world........ Remaining relevant in a world so different from the days of the first Crusades takes a special kind of commitment. Very few Orders of Chivalry have survived into the modern day, but one Religious and Sovereign Order, of particular importance to the island of Malta...” http://www.guidetomalta.net/knights-of-malta.htm

112500 by Mike on 11/08 at 9:41 pm: “...One’s god will always be a reflection of that one.  Hateful people embrace a hateful god, rejected by those with a more loving nature.  Of all the world’s gods the Christian god has always been the most hateful....”

So, I wonder where they actually did get that “god” from, Mike? He/It certainly never had anything to do with Jesus - except maybe for murdering him - which was carried out by the state and the church (the Romans with Israel’s connivance).

#112493 by Pat Williams on 11/08 at 9:04 pm + writeon + sulphurdunn, etc etc: “...What is even scarier about the illegal crosscountry transport of six nukes is the series of deadly “suicides” and “accidents” which have befallen personnel from both the air bases during the past two months....”

Were these “accidents/suicides” thus actually exterminations/liquidations and were they carried out on someone’s orders or by someone volunteering to be smart?

Hmmm. So what you’re saying is that a member of the armed services should not be allowed to practice their faith. However, the source you cite at the beginning “Religious Toleration (Air Force Code of Ethics, 1997)” contradicts just that.

Christianity a cancer… that is just too absurd. How exactly could Christianity be bad? By its premise it is good.

Seems like the author has things all twisted up in his head and is seeking to do nothing more than attack a group of people for their faith.

How do you get armies of willing soldiers to fight future wars that violate international law, undermine the US Constitution, and have little to do with actual US national security interests?

Simple. Through aggresive evangelising at US service academies, you fill the ranks of the military branches with ‘christian warriors’, and then you frame all future conflicts in a religious context: Jesus vs. Mohammed, defend the Holy Land for the prophesied Second Coming, etc.  The evangelical/fundamentalist soldier’s allegiance to their religion will trump all other considerations.  It works great for Al Quaida, and it works for the Christian Right.

#112417 by purplewolf on 11/08 at 2:17 pm: # 112290 Doug Chambers: “KISS- keep it simple stupid. These people are told over and over that they are Gods selected people....... Pathetic how religion reduces people down to the point of being savages. I even have a family member who gets as extremely irrational and violent as these brainwashed born agains....”

Thanks for your interesting response, purplewolf. By the way, Its Chalmers (Scottish), not “chambers”....

Having had family members who were either or both in the military or religiously obsessed, I can vouch for the fact that BOTH have a pervasive effect on everybody around them.

Of course, savagery is the prime quality which the military desires in its people - and primitive credulity is the province of orthodox religion. They are a dangerous combination.

The return of the crusades are already here. So too is Armageddon. We have been fortunate (but the Japanese weren’t!) that there hasn’t alrready been a nuclear war. Its been hanging over us since the 1950’s (Korea) and the 1960’s (Cuba).

But that IS what the USAF has in store for all of us - the militarist’s Armageddon. And, again of course, “armageddon” is a word of the Jews! The Earth will go on - possibly without the human race. Its insanity is not everlasting, uhh.

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Whatever does “air force” and “education” have to do with individual religious beliefs or non-beliefs?

I’m missing something here. Where’s the benefit to either the student, the Air Force or the country?

When the “Reds” or the “Ruskies” invade, how is dropping to your knees to pray for help from heaven going to assist in defending the nation?

Beats me.

I do hope that there are at least some potential Air Force Academy students who, upon hearing the introductory comments by their superiors, IMMEDIATELY WITHDRAW THEIR APPLICATIONS AND RESIGN before they too become mentally disabled.

I have seen that Air Force Academy church (in the picture) that is designed like a series of wings from military jets.  Let me tell you that it is vulgar.  They made a house of worship look like spare parts from jets used to drop cluster bombs on villagers.