Conservative Yankee says: Your errors are far too glaring for me to take ANYTHING you say seriously.
The “English” may have settled these United States, but there were non-english folks here settled first.  The Dutch, the French, and in the oldest city, (St. Augustine, Florida) in the United states, the Spanish.

All I can say is I sent you the link to read and study.  One of your comments were the English did not settle in New England and they did.  The link I’ve included is great link for starters.  There’s a lot more you can gleen from it and the Internet, especially when there’s something about history that one may have to forgeten. 

We all can learn from each other.  So why not keep an opened mind?  When you’re wrong you’re wrong and there is nothing wrong with that except of course when you can’t accept it, learn from it and move on.

After reading stuff you’ve written and try to pass it off as gospel, and I found suspect, on more than several occasions, I found you to be more wrong than right.  All I’m saying is research your stuff before you call some one else the “L” word.

Thank you Shenonymous. I know this was off topic, and I am sorry, but since I haven’t seen this on ANY TV news media station I just needed and wanted to get this info out to the a biggest source of people I am associated with.
This is MAJOR news!
Thanks for your support!

This is really off the topic of this article but since it has been brought up, while Brasscheck does a service to offer the video of Kucinich’s resolution, surely there is a more direct way to reach more of the public.  A great number of people do not blog.  But if everyone who does blog and who does support this resolution were to contact everyone they know to inundate the House and Senate congressmen/women of their district and state, MSM, and local media with calls, emails, or just telephones, about the initiation for impeachment of Cheney, there might be some attention might actually be made by Congress.  Dominos can be very powerful.

Yeah, I know it is just easier to spout off in forums like this one.

IMPEACHMENT IS BACK ON THE TABLE!!!

Here we go folks.  It’s about time!
Now we need a big financial boost and body count to get Dennis in the lead for the Presidency.

We need to send letters into our newspapers, to the “Letters to the Editor” column, to help the media get the news on TV and in print!

Dominick
*****************************************************

The US news is censoring it, but US Representative
Dennis Kucinich has moved on the House floor to
initiate impeachment proceedings against Vice
President Richard Cheney.

In my opinion NOTHING is more important for the future
of the United States than the removal from office and
criminal prosecution of Cheney and others in the Bush
administration.

Please spread the word about this important and
heavily censored story.

The gauntlet has been thrown down. Kucinich makes
the case brilliantly. The process has begun…

Now it’s up to us to make noise about this and force
the media to pay attention and make sure the rest of the
country knows. 

Details: 
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/199.html

- Brasscheck

P.S. Please share this e-mail with friends and
colleagues.

That’s how we grow. Thanks. 

========

Brasscheck TV
2380 California St.
San Francisco, CA 94115

#112079 by Conservative Yankee on 11/07 at 5:17 am
•  If you don’t care for the way I write. Please do us a favor and don’t read my posts.

CY, it’s not at all HOW you write, it’s WHAT you write, and please be overwhelmingly assured that when you re-write history, and you write it WRONG, I’m DEFINITELY going to correct you. Oh yes sir, without a doubt, I WILL correct you, or anybody else that has it wrong. Because, while you may not be interested in ‘pleasing’ historians, academics do take their work very seriously. That’s pretty much the whole point of studying it to begin with. History DOES matter. And, I’ve said that before…too many of today’s problems are a result of people rewriting history.

•  I’m not defending the Dutch, and I surely do not know where you obtained the information that most slaves were not imported directly from Africa.  You might want to write a book if you can prove that point.

I’ve already done the book writing thing CY, but not on this point. You can reference Dr. John Park though, he’s done a considerable amount of work on it, and I got this particular bit of information from him, in his capacity as the Dean of the department with which I am affiliated. (obviously he teaches as well)Indeed, there were some slaves imported directly from Africa, but the earliest of them were imported primarily from the West Indies. The first colony to be ‘settled’ by the Euros (British) was Virginia, at Jamestown, and most of those slaves were imported from Barbados. I could go on, but I’ve already covered this in my own work, so it would be easier if I just keep you up to date as I go along from here. Besides, Dominick has already provided you with that information, so it saves me.

And, I really don’t care about the Dutch. Matter of fact, this conversation began with me explaining that English was never a Native language of this Continent, and that the reason it is now the most widely recognized language here, is because the US was initially settled by the English, from England/Britain,(Wales and Scotts too) and that’s how we got English, and a Constitution and a Bill of Rights in English. The Spanish language was not native to the continent either, and would not be so widely spoken in the places where it is, if the Spaniards hadn’t dominated so much of the ‘conquering’ at the time.

As for the religious freedom part, ITW has squared you away on that, though I didn’t much care about that either, even though it is a very important part of the history that I am studying. Once the Euros got here, they were determined to Christianize everybody, whether they wanted to be or not. That’s how the slaves ‘got religion’ and it’s probably among the longest lasting injustices that were perpetrated against them.

Meantime, I asked you to simply pick a date and a spot, because the history of the US didn’t happen in a day. It didn’t begin with the so-called Pilgrims either. That’s the only thing I asked you to do, so you needn’t get all huffy. I’m gonna get huffy if you get it wrong though, so that’s why I wanted to synchronize our times. And, I don’t remember calling you ignorant, but if the shoe fits….feel free to put it on.

The problem with people who “know” everything, and can never be ‘wrong’ about anything, is that they can never LEARN anything. It’s not necessarily something to be proud of, because contrary to the anti-intellectuals of the Bush era, knowledge isn’t such a bad thing. And, if somebody is giving it away free, only an ignorant person would refuse it.

So, you don’t have to buy my books, but it’s a promise that I’ll correct you if you’re wrong about facts. If we’re talking ‘opinions’ it’s an entirely different thing. Facts are facts. And, you don’t get to make up your own.

And, I don’t have a horse..high or low. I mostly walk, and I’m short. Nothing in common with Hillary either, beyond the gender thing.

I know what I read and if you don’t remember I put it back here for you to read.  And then when you get through re-reading it maybe you should go and read the link.
Yea good idea, let’s keep history straight.

Conservative Y writes: “That point was to refute your claim “The English settled New England.” That statement is demonstratively false.”

AND the truth issssssss:

The English did in fact settle New England.  I broke it up for you.  It’s in the 4th paragraph.  After that take a look at the link I furnished for you below.

Not to defend Conservative Yankee, but if by “the first settlers” he meant the Pilgrims who landed at Plymouth Rock, he’s absolutely correct: They did not come here for religious freedom but to ESCAPE the religious freedom of Holland (which they detested) so they could set up a pure, sin-free society—brutally enforced.

Think about it: How different were the Pilgrims from the Taliban?  65-70 years after they got to NE, they were hanging each other en masse for unproven accusations of witchcraft.

(Remember: They fled England and went to Holland BEFORE coming to North America—and Holland was a liberal, open nation)

Let’s just keep the history straight.

Again Conservative Y you need to refresh your history.

COnservative Y writes: “That point was to refute your claim “The English settled New England.” That statement is demonstratively false.”

AND the truth issssssss:

The English did in fact settle New England.  I broke it up for you.  It’s in the 4th paragraph.  After that take a look at the link I furnished for you below.

“After the explorers…...
The Spanish came to New Spain.  As you can see from the map above, New Spain consisted of the islands in the Caribbean Sea, Mexico, Florida, and the states from Texas to California.”

“More people came from many countries. They came for many reasons, especially for land and riches.

The French settled New France, in eastern Canada. 

The English settled New England and Virginia.  The people who came here were called settlers, or colonists.”

“One more early group that came to the new world must be mentioned here. They were the Africans.  But they did not come for land or riches. They did not want to come.  They were brought here by the Europeans as slaves.  They needed people to work for them, especially on their farms.”

http://www.evgschool.org/explorers.htm

Conservative Yankee writes: the stupid idea that the first English settlers came here for “religious freedom.”)

Yea Conservative Yankee yer getting close to getting on my last nerve!

“In 1670 Charles Town was established by the English, Lords Proprietors, who abondoned it 10 years later, moving down the river to Oyster Point, where the city of Charlestown was established. Settlers were granted generous land grants and religious freedom. The majority of the original colonists were white settler.”

Of course you don’t think having to write it into the Constitution too was something they just said let’s write that in for the hell of it eh?  I think you need a to take another history lesson.

For all those Kucinich fans you’ll be happy to see this:

We’ve heard from many of the candidates directly over the last three weeks.

Senator Barack Obama challenged DFA members to take the country forward in a new direction. Senator John Edwards demanded that as a DFA member himself, it is our time to take action together.

Governor Bill Richardson stood up for our brave men and women fighting for our country and pledged to bring every single troop home starting his first day in office. Senator Chris Dodd demanded we stop the Bush administration’s abuse of power now and not wait for elections in 2008.

But no one worked harder to win your support then Congressman Dennis Kucinich. He made his progressive record on Iraq, universal health care, and the Patriot Act clear. He didn’t just ask for your vote, he worked for the votes of your friends and neighbors. He asked his supporters to join DFA and vote to make sure you heard his message. He shot videos, issued press releases, and met with local DFA leaders and members all over the country to try and get your vote. And it worked.

Congressman Kucinich did not get the 66% required to earn the DFA Presidential Endorsement, but he did win our internet poll with an astounding 49,000 votes. Congratulations to Congressman Kucinich for working to win.

Check out the complete interactive results:
http://DemocracyforAmerica.com/pulsepoll/results

•  Columbus was Italian. He sailed for Spain, as Henry Hudson was English, and he sailed for the Dutch. Columbus never reached the mainland of the North American Continent. Recent historians now believe the Chinese sailed to what is now the western United States long before the Spanish.

•  The oriental look of several South Western tribes might be explained by this theory.  New England was not first settled by the English, but by the French who arrived in 1604 (On St Croix Island)16 years before the Pilgrims. The Scandinavians (Vikings)hunted this land for generations before the French arrived.

You’ve got most of this ass-backwards CY, and you’re running things together in a way that would make any historian pull out their hair.

What are you talking about here? Are you talking about St. Croix, in the Virgin Islands? Or, are you talking about New England, which would include the Colonies that first established the US of A? Yes, the Dutch were the first importers of the slaves from Africa to the West Indies, and those same slaves were later imported to the US. (very few slaves were ever imported directly from Africa to the ‘new world” that was NEW ENGLAND). And yeah, the French certainly did their part as well. Hard to imagine that you don’t know that the Spanish did in fact ‘conquer” a large portion of what is now the Western US as well as Mexico. How the hell do you think we got all of these cities with Spanish names? How do you think the Natives of Mexico and other parts of the Southwest got “Christianized”? They weren’t “Christian” before the 14th Century.

The ‘oriental’ look of the Natives is your term, not an historians term. They looked like that for the 10,000 years before they were infected by a variety of things besides the small pox and other stuff the Euros brought over here. They have frequently, (and most often) been designated as a mongoloid race, which does have that ‘oriental’ flavor if that’s what you want to call it. NOT because the Chinese were here. And if there were in fact “Scandinavians” running about, (and I don’t know that there were) they would have been in the Canadian Provinces, not on what is now known as the mainland of the USA.

So, if you’re gonna talk history, (of these United States), you need to pick a date and a spot. I’m perfectly willing to help you out. So, how far back do you want to go? I’d say that you should at least go back to the days of Columbus, (whether he was Italian is irrelevant, since he did in fact sail for Spain, and did in fact ‘claim’ these lands on behalf of the Queen and King of that country). And that is especially true since most Americans still believe that he ‘discovered’ America.. Yeah, he did, by accident, but it was only a ‘discovery’ for him and his crew, since it just happened to be a continent that was already highly populated by an entire race of peoples who would surely have continued to manage quite well, had they never been ‘discovered’. Now Columbus did his thing toward the end of the 15th Century. (1492 if we’re all on the same page of that history). So, that seems like a good enough starting point, for the sake of a ‘history’ of the United States. (not to be confused with the history of the Americas, which existed long before his ‘discovery”)

As for determining the number of legal immigrants that should be allowed in, I’d say if they have to cross any oceans to get here….NONE. Let’s just have a moratorium on immigrants from any other continent besides the one we’re situated on. As for borders, which should we recognize? They’re all artificial.
So, here’s an idea. Everybody can trace themselves back to wherever their ancestors were in the year 1492, and return to wherever that was. Then, once everybody is back where they belong, we’ll see who still wants to immigrate to the US, and then we’ll decide how many of you we want to let back in.

cyrena,
Excellent post!

I just needed to add my 2 cents, please no change back is really necessary.
Those who came to this country from England where escaping to a better way of life ie: “Freedom of Religion,” “No Taxation without representation.” etc., etc., etc….

They were English speaking people.  Our government was formed by English Speaking people and everything was written by and in English by those very English speaking people.  Our Constitution wasn’t written in French, Spanish, Lithiwanian (sp), German or any other language just English.
AND in impeccable handwriting, I might add.

The Thugs in this country are a big part of the Republican or as we we like to call them the Re-thug-lican Party.  Hell the Bushs were and most likely still are Nazis!  Now before anyone wants to challenge me on that Please do a GOOGLE search.

Baby Bush, the “Decider,” sure is acting like one right now!

The Democrats in this country is for the working poor, always have been, and the Rethuglicans have always been for BIG corporations and big money.  They say they want less government BUT always create MORE government for themselves to make more money.

Somebody on here once said about Hillary, “strategy to always opt for cagey, non-commital strategies over a moral foundation that,” 
which is exactly what any Rethug is, whether they sit in the Senate, House or Oval Office!

#111842 by Inherit The Wind

Inherit responding to Nancy..

Inherit, this was among your best. Seriously. I particularly appreciated the Regan reminder, with PATCO example, as one of the major cases in the kick-off of the “outsourcing”.

It’s funny about the selective memories of the American public, since it seems not to matter where or even WHEN an individual has entered the American society. I frequently marvel at all of the indignation and hate directed at Clinton for his part in NAFTA and the WTO, without ever acknowledging that this assault against the American worker began way back at the beginning of RR’s years, but I certainly remember it. It was the beginning of the end, as we watched unions die, (along with anyone who attempted, -as you said- to even MENTION the word or concept). And, it was equally amazing, (and frightening) to see how so many of the masses, (as in these American workers themselves) were so easily brainwashed into going along with the corporate party line, totally clueless to the fact that they were in effect, putting guns to their own heads. (or, just totally ignorant). How could any hourly paid employee in any industry, actually be convinced that the unions were NOT in their best interests? Yet, they were.

And, you have to admit, it’s the same thing now. I mean, how could this many people manage to put the Thugs in office even ONCE, let alone twice? And even though that both of those elections were in fact stolen, the point is that there were ENOUGH Americans that apparently DID vote for the thugs, for them to get away with it. So, sad as it is, we have to accept the fact that Americans are ignorant of history, or simply choose to re-write it, or pick their own ‘starting dates’.

It’s like the big thing with the English language. The US has NEVER had an ‘official language’ for the very reason that it is a ‘nation of immigrants’. Spanish prevailed in the Western part up the nation, because SPAIN settled it first, (along with all of Mexico) That was the Christopher Columbus gang and all of his fellow people who established Spanish as they missionized the Natives of that area. And English, well…that came from the Brits colonizing the territories, in what was then, (and still known as NEW ENGLAND). The Brits came from the European “England” and set up a New one here, and they spoke English. That was NOT the language of the Native peoples of America, nor was Spanish. Both were imported from Europe, when they came over just about 400 years ago, (give or take a few- my point there being that the Anglo-English-Christian experience here in the Americas is VERY young, at least comparatively speaking.)

Same with this ‘true blue’ American blood thing – as least for Nancy’s information. Where did that come from? The native people of this continent aren’t blue, they’re a reddish brown sort of color, with dark hair and eyes. That’s who was here for 10.000 years before the Euros or Nancy’s grandparents came over here. (she says they came ‘legally’ with a means to support themselves) Well, WHY did they come? (couldn’t have been that long ago). And, who decided they were ‘legal’. They must have wanted to get away from wherever they came from, which is a large part of the reasons why Euros came over here to begin with. But, their ‘legality’ has been determined by those who weren’t “legal” themselves. (things were pretty rotten in Denmark and other places as well). Besides, this entire continent was here to be exploited, along with its Native inhabitants, (who were exterminated when they couldn’t or wouldn’t be exploited).

So, everybody needs some history lessons here. I’m not averse to having ALL ya’ll go back to your ‘country of origin’, seeing as how I’m already home. Make a lot more room for the rest of us, and we’re perfectly able to set up our own trade agreements among ourselves. Managed just fine before.

We spend BILLIONS to educate and provide health care for ILLEGALS.  I wouldn’t mind spending some of that money to deport all of them.  Then we could use the rest on our own citizens.  We need to deport all ILLEGAL immigrants, heavily fine those who hire ILLEGALS, and return to the original intent of the 14th amendment and do away with anchor babies.

Nancy on 11/05 at 4:46 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

I was a democrat until I found out so many of their leaders is attempting to advance their new world order by supporting open borders among other things; which is nothing but a war on the American worker.

Where have YOU been the last 26 years? It was Ronald Reagan who signed into law the BIGGEST attack on American workers:  HUGE tax incentives for companies to move their manufacturing overseas, ostensibly to “help” 3rd world countries, but really to get around US wage and labor laws, and little “inconveniences” like OSHA.

Not only that, RR lead the attack on destroying the MOST important friend American workers had: Unions.  Remember what he did to PATCO?  It didn’t matter that it f***ed up air travel, and made it FAR less safe for at least a decade. It didn’t matter that PATCO’s demands were just.  They were a stinkin’ rotten communist union and had to be wiped out.

The propaganda campaign against unions was in full swing—and they won.  Just ask WalMart workers what it’s like—they delete hours people worked, they cut people to part-time so they don’t have to give them benefits—and they fire anyone daring to talk “Union”.

Wasn’t the Demo-squids, lady, it was the Re-thugs getting EXACTLY what they convinced the masses it SHOULD want.  THAT was the attack on the American Worker…and you can find it in ANY newspaper.

If you think you can convert all the American people to attacking itself and it’s people while selling your souls and our country to foreign interests, I think you might end up falling into the pit you have digged for us. Clinton as well as Obama voted against ‘English’ only and they want to LEAD this county???? Don’t make me laugh. Nothing funny about it…u call me a radical, and you speak truly.

“English-Only” is a code-word that’s been used by White-supremacists since at least 1994.  ‘Nuf Ced.

I have the blood of my forefathers running thru my veins and u don’t have a clue how ‘RADICAL’ I and others like me can get. Those of us who are true-blue Americans. I have a feeling you crooked corporate punks will be finding out. You don’t have an ounce of loyalty to this country. Crooks never stop screaming their innocence; never stop telling their lies…when u argue with fools u become like them. I’m thru with you and ur propaganda conversation. Let the Karma begin.

VERY familiar rant—you just left out “Ve Vill Clean Der Fatherland of all the mud-people filth.”

Stupid fool.  I know people who still have foreign accents who served in our military in our wars, offering up their lives for America.  What makes YOU a better American than them?  In fact, how DARE you claim to be a better American than them!

What happened Nancy you stop using your drugs?

Hello Conservative Yankee, your whole post and comments reek of Republican treachory.  You are not part of the solution you most certainbly are part of the problem and is more than likely why Bush made it to his 2nd term.  Thanks but no thanks for your help in the disabling of our Constitution and helping us get into this imoral war.

Con Yank SAYS:  “And you are correct about one thing, I will vote for Guiliani, Huckabee, Paul, or anyone who runs against the annointed queen of slime.”

AND for sure you will lose.  Sorry you have to decesend to name calling.  But for sure she has more integrity in her little finger than you have in your whole body.  You would sell us out to the GOP and the same crap we’ve gotten from Bush and Cheney then go for it.  Good luck to you.

Hi Cyrena,
“Well Dominick,
I’ve gotta say, you sure got him (CY) on this one. But then, this sure doesn’t make Hillary look too good. I mean, teaming up with the likes of ANY of these rethugs puts her in a really bad light. (not that she wasn’t already – but this really does her in).
I’ve gotta admit, if we actually do have an election, I’m still on for Kucinich”

The whole point of showing him the article was to show it was a Team effort of Republicans and Democrats in a BiPartisan endeavor.  Hillary wasn’t the a lone ranger in this deal she was co-chairman. Please read the the first couple of sentences again.
This was a good thing that was happening.  AND it’s always a good thing when the two parties work together for a common goal.  This is no way does “her In” at all.

We are going to have a election, there’s no doubt about that, But I’m afraid Dennis won’t be running for the Office of the Presidency.  I too would have loved it if he were a contender but he isn’t, nor is Feingold.

We need to get out of the stanglehold the GOP has gotten us into and Hillary is the person to do just that.

#111643 by Dominick J.
•  Hey COnservative Yankee.  Is this the Caucaus yer talkin’ ‘bout?
•  The Senate India Caucus will bring together Republicans and Democrats with a view to strengthening relations between India and the U.S. and work towards “common goals,” including in the realm of trade and security “in an age of global terror,” a press release from Mr. Cornyn’s office said. Mr. Cornyn and Ms. Clinton will co-chair the Caucus that will include the Senate Majority Leader, Bill Frist, the Senate Minority Leader, Tom Daschle, and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, a Republican from Texas. There are 31 members in the Caucus.”
Well Dominick,
I’ve gotta say, you sure got him (CY) on this one. But then, this sure doesn’t make Hillary look too good. I mean, teaming up with the likes of ANY of these rethugs puts her in a really bad light. (not that she wasn’t already – but this really does her in).
I’ve gotta admit, if we actually do have an election, I’m still on for Kucinich.

(I’m scared to find out who the other members of the caucus are….I don’t think my heart could take it).

I’m just wondering what will happen if the ‘global terror’ threat ever falls apart. I guess as long as we keep the slogan going, it’ll keep the terror going.

The thing with India isn’t going to help the terror cause though.

Inherit The Wind, Keep on trucking.  You are one of the Good Guys here Thanks!! 
Nancy just can’t seem to get it right..
But then most Radical Right folks can’t..

Conservative Yankee:  “Typical troll thinks there are only Republicans and Democrats.”

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhahahahaha That’s a typical Rethug response..
Of course there are Greens, and Independents too, but I don’t expect there even in this race so Yes there are ONLY GOP and Democrats, have been in offcie for a very long time.

Scum sucking Clinton? Wouldln’t expect anything less from a Rethug either.

Go ahaed and support Kucinich.  I would But when he doesn’t make it then who are you going to stand behind Guiliani?

And your facts suck!

This is what you wrote if you bothered looking at your post:

“SHE (without him) is a co-chair of the India Caucus.” 

NOT this:  “I said Hill-the-business-shill was co-chair of the India Caucus”

No sense talking with you, you can’t even remember what you wrote.

Nancy on 11/04 at 9:29 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Just curious Inherit the wind; who do YOU work for? Are you an economic hit-man for a corporation, or do you work for our CIA to create such propaganda? Or are you an illegal alien of whatever country? Or sleeping with one? Or maybe you’re just a troll…passing wind. Ok, so your kind of people couldn’t get by calling me and other loyal citizens ‘rascist’ so now you’re using bigot. You make me laugh. How many people of color have you tried to help or taken under your wing in the past year, wind? I’m sure you must have many fine examples of how you have worked for the cause of POOR AMERICAN CITIZEN MINORITY GROUPS. I’m holding my breath in anticipation. And BTW; would you be willing to take a cut in pay to help them?

*******************

Just can’t imagine how someone who doesn’t share your warped bigoted hatred and twisting and bastardization of your own Jesus’ message can be anything but an agent?

I’m not the crazy one here. I’m Agnostic but I’m still closer to following YOUR savior’s dictum than you will EVER be.

I work for a small, for-profit firm, that has NOTHING to do with government.  I just have a brain and opinions and I’m not intimidated by the plethora of trolls, anti-semites, tin-foil-hatters, religious fanatics and neo-nazis that have gravitated to what SHOULD be a liberal blog site.

The answer to your last two questions are: Yes, and I already have.  And I have a child of another race from another country who would have grown up poor and ignorant if we hadn’t be lucky enough to have him grace our family. 

Since you’re so religious you are probably anti-abortion and hammer adoption.  Have YOU adopted? I’m pro-Choice and I have.

Conservative Yankee on 11/04 at 5:11 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Actually ITW I would have guessed you would have looked at this “deal” closer… Are you not the person (maybe I have someone else in mind) who said “I would like to keep some of my own money.”?

The problem is there is NO good solution. Either we let it continue as is, risking our security and breaking our own laws, or we fix it.  And EVERY solution will have a negative economic impact that will, in the short and medium term, cost us each a lot of money.  That’s basic macro- and micro-economics 101.

So the question is: What will be the least costly solution that still doesn’t compromise our security?

I don’t like ANY solution—there’s just no free lunch. So what works best?

Bill doesn’t have any baggage so to speak off.  It’s only Republicans who have a problem with him.  You know those very, Very, moral Republicans who are getting caught on a regualr basis either haveing sex in toiltes, or taking and laundering money, or pandering to the Religious Right for votes, oh how about the one where they outed a FBI agent, Plame I belive her name is, and the list goes on and gets bigger as time goes on.
While Hillary is showing a 62% approval rating, Guilliani is at 33%, and I do belive that’s just with the GOP folks!

Hi Conservative Yankee, You’re the one not fooling anyone along with your GOP party, who would give us the same ole, same ole if ever elected back to the WHite House again.  We said we wanted change and a change we are a gonna to get!  As Dylan once said, “Times they are a Changin”
Again.

As Bush once said Fool me once and uhhhhhh, fool me uhhhhhhh, fool me twice and uhhhhhhh, well fool me once and fool me again!

Here’s another one Conservative Yankee:

“Clinton returned $5,000 to the political action committee of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., a company with long ties to the Clintons dating back to their days in Arkansas, where Wal-Mart is headquartered.

Clinton campaign spokeswoman Ann Lewis said the money was returned “because of serious differences with current company practices.”

Can you imagine that a multimillion dollar organziation only contributing 5,000.00?

Hey COnservative Yankee.  Is this the Caucaus yer talkin’ ‘bout?

“WASHINGTON, APRIL 27. The Republican Senator from Texas, John Cornyn, and his Democratic colleague from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton, will formally announce the creation of the first-ever Senate Caucus dedicated to relations between India and the United States. The event will be held on Thursday at Capitol Hill and will be followed by a reception at the Indian Embassy.

The Senate India Caucus will bring together Republicans and Democrats with a view to strengthening relations between India and the U.S. and work towards “common goals,” including in the realm of trade and security “in an age of global terror,” a press release from Mr. Cornyn’s office said. Mr. Cornyn and Ms. Clinton will co-chair the Caucus that will include the Senate Majority Leader, Bill Frist, the Senate Minority Leader, Tom Daschle, and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, a Republican from Texas. There are 31 members in the Caucus.”

Get yer Facts straight will ya?

Well Doug we are going to have to agree to disagree here.  I still don’t think this campaign and her bid for the Oval Office as a “Hillary and Bill” anything other than his support of her.  She’s been his First Lady during his term as Governor, she has been his First Lady during his term as President.  She has been Senator of New York on her own and she will lead this country with her husband by her side and do it with a reliable Administrative Cabinet.  I hope he will help her when and if things get sticky or when she needs it, but I still say it isn’t going to be a “Hillary and Bill” thing.

#111591 by Dominick J. on 11/04 at 9:16 am: “...Actually if it weren’t for the media dragging him in I really don’t think he would be “hogging” the limelight. I also think his recent comment about Tim Russert’s question to Hillary was appropriate for him to step in and defend her for that….”

There’s not doubt that it is “Hillary and Bill” now, Dominick. Its taken people quite some time to realize that even and bloggers have been blindly referring to “Bill and Hillary” until recently. I guess they are still learning, ha ha.

Hi Doug,
And thanks for rrsponding back too.

“I do not support Bill hogging the limelight and making dubious statements - as he has started to do recently”

Actually if it weren’t for the media dragging him in I really don’t think he would be “hogging” the limelight. I also think his recent comment about Tim Russert’s question to Hillary was appropriate for him to step in and defend her for that.

We also need to show the American public how much the “new” Democratic lead has really done since they’ve taken the lead in Congress.  The media surely doesn’t report any of what has been accomplished, only the divisve parts.

#111579 by Dominick J. on 11/04 at 7:54 am: “...you’re right we should stop defining Hillary as the “Clintons.” She is running on her own ticket and when she chooses a running a mate it won’t be Bill.  It will be someone other, you know that BUT it’ll be like when Bill was in office Hillary was in there to help….”

Thanks for the response, Dominick. I agree with you about Hillary - but not totally about Bill, though. Usually I support her as a general positive force for change but I do not support Bill hogging the limelight and making dubious statements -  as he has started to do recently (ref. my comments in the other recent Hillary topics).

Most of the “baggage” that people usually complain about is actually his. We should stop and think that Hillary might have also been a positive influence in her years as first lady and how many of “Bill’s ” good policies then were actually possibly/likely hers? There’s more to it than meets the eye.

The trouble with politics is that even Hillary has to please “all of the people all of the time” as far as her own party is concerned, at least. It can’t be avoided and critically watching her every move and every word she utters is negatively obsessive. There is no perfect person - we can only work towards something that is better for all.

Hi Doug you’re right we should stop defining Hillary as the “Clintons.”  She is running on her own ticket and when she chooses a running a mate it won’t be Bill.  It will be someone other, you
know that BUT it’ll be like when Bill was in office Hillary was in there to help.  That’s what the GOP P’od and gave Hillary the bad rap she got!

She’s not definning her policies by Bills, she doesn’t have to, she’s smart enough to define her own.  She not a follower, she’s a Leader!
And lastly she has her own campaign manager who is running her campaign and doing a very great job at it.

And that crack about us knowing his past?  His past is he was a Great President who got this country out of a another huge mess the GOP left it in and His campaign manager ran an excellent campaign.

Good for Hillary, she has it all over Obama and what’s his name..

#111490 by Grappa on 11/03 at 8:26 pm: “...illegals are from countries other then Mexico….. we just don’t know why some of these people are here.9-11…!”

Its got NOTHING to do with 9/11, Grappa. It has to do with their problems back home - the ones the USA helped create with Contra-gate, etc etc, and colonialist policies ever since 1898…....

#110869 by RdV on 11/01 at 4:36 am: “...Clinton’s true failing—and the most revealing thing about her character, is that she waffled in her attempt to triangulate. .....the Clintons will always….. The problem with the Clintons…”

I think you have to stop defining Hillary as “the Clintons”.....

That is, Hillary has to stop defining her policies as Bill would have…..

That is, Bill should butt out of Democrats’ policy-making and campaign strategy and tactics entirely (we know his past) - and let Hillary run HER OWN campaign…...

She would then find it all a lot less confusing than having to remember what Bill told her to say, uhh.

I believe that much of what has been noted on this artical are notions that the dems need to speak on! One other item on immigration, many of these illegals are from countries other then Mexico, thats part of the issue, we just don’t know why some of these people are here.9-11!

They most likely would make fine additions to the nation as citizens, but I argue that they need to get in line with the rest of the world who are immigrating to the US.  Don’t you think that if given citizenship that these child victims of illegal immigration of their parents would also want their illegal parents to be granted legalized status?  There is a name for other similar children, Anchor Babies and some illegal alien pregnant mothers intentionally cross the border to have their babies in the United States so that they will be granted benefits of social programs.  Children brought here by illegal immigrants are totally innocent, and they did not have any choice.  The subset who have managed to become educated might be given some credit toward naturalization.  But certainly not their parents.  It is a sticky wicket and slippery slope of a problem.  I think it can be worked out.  But after the illegal alien problem itself is solved through immigration reform with absolutely no amnesty.

And I revise my comment that you don’t get it, as it seems you do, but I disagree with your vision of any wholesale citizenship for any of the illegals.

Thank you. I appreciate it.  And it’s fair that you disagree with me.  I would just say that someone (and there are many cases in New York) who was brought here as a small child or an infant, and raised here as an American, gotten an education, even a college education,
a)had NO choice in the matter
b)is totally innocent
c)would make a FINE addition to our nation as a citizen.

It’s not wholesale, blanket citizenship for illegals, just for a very small subset who had no choice and have made the most of themselve.

First of all I don’t see anyone whining and crying and bitching about inflation except the Republicans, and they are the ones who don’t accept that nothing is free.  They are the ones who don’t want to put money into the economy so that all citizens besides themselves can have a decent life.  They are the ones who want the free lunch.  Taxes is the only way to put more money into the economy especially as long as Americans have to pay for an illegal war, which along with the cost of having to take care of the injured soldiers some for the rest of their lives is completely shocking and devastating to our country.  The people are losing untold millions of resources toward having even a moderate living condition with the cost of everything we are now facing.  They are too numerous to mention but some of them are gasoline, energy to heat or cool the home, clothing, food, you know, the basics, have gone sky high, and we have to mention the old beezlebubs, healthcare and medicines are cost-unavailble to millions of Americans.  Why should it be that way?  Yes, I know it is a rhetorical question, but it must be asked.

Next, the cost of illegals, of course isn’t simple, and I haven’t heard anyone say it was.  The problem there is very much as Grappa says, Republicans say one thing, and do another, which I characterize as forked tongue.  But I see many Democrats as somewhat blind as well.  The only legal way undocumented workers may stay in my opinion is on a worker visa program, which would be a temporary residency and that ought to have a limited time specified.  None of them should be able to stay unconditionally but all may enter as citizens by going through the naturalization program that all immigrants have to go through.  There is no reason these “imported” workers have any privilege more than anyone else in the world.  Each country has a quota and that is the way it should be since as Conservative Yankee pointed out (and it doesn’t matter to me if he is conservative if he has a valid point), we already have 2 million legal immigrants a year. Decent wages as you say is the key as well as decent housing and healthcare for them.  They deserve that as much as anyone.  That is real egalitarianism.  And I revise my comment that you don’t get it, as it seems you do, but I disagree with your vision of any wholesale citizenship for any of the illegals.

Shenonymous on 11/03 at 5:30 am
(178 comments total)

A report last night on Moyers’ Journal Katherine Newman presented a very real picture of the conditions of the working class. 

*******************

What don’t I get? While I agree with all these evils of the Rethug administration, and that not wasting 2 trillion $$$ on Iraq would be a HUGE economic kick fo the nation, you are simply off on a tangent.

Illegal immigration cannot be stopped without an extreme economic cost all its own. I’m not saying we shouldn’t fix it: We should.  We need to pay living wages to workers in the US, and we need a LEGAL way for these people to come here—and work at the decent wage.  We need to set up a tapestry of laws dealing with illegals that allows some to stay unconditionally (like those who were brought as infants and raised here as Americans) with a shot at citizenship, others to stay after paying fines, others to apply to stay subject to review, others to be deported and forced to re-apply for admission, and others completely expelled.

But even if ALL the 11 million illegals were granted immunity and allowed to stay, US labor law would apply and force their salaries to go up.  This, in turn, would lead to many losing jobs (macro economics 101) AND a higher cost of manufacturing.
Again, there is NO solution to the problem that does not cost a lot of money.

As vile as all the Bush policies are you described, they aren’t directly relevant to the discussion at hand. INdirectly relevant, yes.

So what don’t I get?

You just don’t get it Inherit The Wind, we are willing to pay real dollars and cents out of our own pockets, bi-conditionally, if and only if Republicans don’t squander it on illegal wars.  War is the only program they have since they didn’t spend it on Katrina, or children healthcare, or creating jobs with nationwide programs.  What programs have they given the people of America that actually and directly help them?  They want to get rid of Social Security, Medicare and every other program that would help the middle and poor economic strata of our society have a decent life.  Where are the new roads projects?  Where are anti-global warming environmental projects?  These kinds of programs would help create thousands of jobs.  Talk about unwilling to spend a dollar out of one’s pockets, the Republicans are the stingiest and most mean-spirited people on earth (except for their siblings Libertarians and anarchists). All they do is talk and try to deflect our minds away from real life issues.  They want to reconstruct America to put more money in their own pockets, money they make on the labor of the truly forsaken.

We saw how fast they responded (in order to preserve whatever votes they might have) to the rich California fire crises.  It does not make us forget Katrina and their abandonment of the poor mainly African Americans.  That will never be forgotten. 

A report last night on Moyers’ Journal Katherine Newman presented a very real picture of the conditions of the working class.  If you missed it, you can hear it or read the transcript at
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/11022007/watch3.html

Grappa on 11/02 at 6:26 pm
(14 comments total)

Our ports and borders must be secured. Employers who look to hire illegal immigrants [and pay them low wages] , over American citizens, who would demand their rights, should be charged, and if found guilty, fined and sent to jail.

And I would gladly pay the increased costs in fruit, vegetable, housing, chicken, and everything else that will go up in price as a response.

But I’ll bet you’d whine and cry and bitch about inflation, never realizing that NOTHING is free. 
There’s NO FREE LUNCH!

The problem of illegals isn’t simple, unless you and every other American are willing to pay the price, in very real dollars and cents out of your pocket.

Our ports and borders must be secured. Employers who look to hire illegal immigrants [and pay them low wages] , over American citizens, who would demand their rights, should be charged, and if found guilty, fined and sent to jail.

Nancy on 11/02 at 8:15 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Mexicans DON’T want to do the nasty jobs you whine Americans don’t want to do…they want OUR living wage jobs, just like anyone else. AND they DON’T want to assimilate; they want to take this country for Mexico! They’ve SAID IT themselves. Americans who ignore this do it at the peril of losing thier country and the REST OF THEIR RIGHTS!!! It’s quite clear the American people have awakened and are refusing to swallow the lies….the ONLY people who want them here are the stingy, hateful rich who feel entitled to plunder and rape the poor.

****************

And I thought you thought it was those nasty Jews who were taking over America!

Make up your nasty, bigoted KKK mind, will you?

Nancy, I’m not a lawyer and I don’t think it’s me you want to say those things to.  How about reading MY Post now.  Oh and maybe it’s because you got the wrong name?  I’m not Dom, I’m Dominick….

The argument Hillary Clinton presents about giving illegal aliens driver’s licenses is as big a fallacy as can be proposed.  The fact that they drive our roads without licenses only means they are driving illegally.  The implication of the proposal is that the roads would be safer if they had driver’s licenses.  If they are poor drivers without licenses what is to say they would get better at driving with licenses.  Or that our roads would be safer because they have a license when before they did not.  Furthermore it would be the first step to a defacto amnesty for 12 to 14 million people who are in the United States illegally.  If they were to get driver’s licenses they would have to further get auto insurance if they are driving.  That is as unlikely to happen as the laughable claim that they pay income tax, and legal citizens would still be at risk of auto accidents with illegal residents without auto insurance.  Also to get a driver’s license they would have to have a social security card, which would then mean they would have access to our social security funds.  That is an insane idea and the working class Americans know it.  This latest piece of politics by Senator Clinton ostensibly will rule out my vote for her.

I would like to see help given to Illegals to gain their Legal status.
But I don’t like the idea of letting them get a Drivers license until they can read and write English.
For people seeking sanctuary here in the States, IMHO, should never be denied acces to the states and they should be at the top of list for citizenship.

I should also add, I’m not for a two language country-Spanish and English.  We should stay and maintain English as our first language in this country.  My parents were Italian immigrants way back in the 1930s, they went to school learned English, got their citizenship AND worked, all at the same time, to make a living in this country.  Five of us kids born here, making us First Generation, American/Italians all grew up speaking English as our first language.  Our parents spoke it at home with us!  They were proud of being Americans FIRST, Italians second.

Well Mary, I suppose I could outdo you. My grest-grandfather was actually invited here because his skills as a master craftsman were in demand to build US churches. The other side were American bluebloods from New Hampshire who originally came over as indentured servants.
  I should bring to your attention however, that “Wop”, slang for Italian-Americans means without papers. Something they probably called my great grandfather—even though he was invited to come here.

CESAR CHAVEZ:  ANTI-MEXICAN RACIST ?

Cesar Chavez in his day was no more tolerant of illegal immigration than the Minutemen are now. Worried about the hiring of illegal immigrants driving down wages, Chavez—according to numerous historical accounts—instructed union members to call the Immigration and Naturalization Service to report the presence of illegal immigrants in the fields and demand that the agency deport them. UFW officials were even known to picket INS offices to demand a crackdown on illegal immigrants.

In 1973 the union set up a “wet line” to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States. Under the guidance of Chavez’s cousin Manuel, UFW members tried at first to convince the immigrants not to cross. When that did not work, they physically attacked the immigrants and left some bloody in the process.

110904 by mary

•  #110899, Rdv in response, my grandparents came to this country legally!  They came with a means of support and a strong desire to be proud Americans

Mary, no disrespect intended here, but just for the sake of education and enlightenment, (maybe for all of us) maybe you and others can check out the actual state of ‘legality’ in immigration, dating back to the beginnings of this nation, as it was called, “America”. Or, the New World, or the Colonies, or whatever.

It is actually a very fascinating subject, though I admit it’s time consuming to wade through and absorb in context to what we consider to be the ‘legalities’ of any ‘immigration’ into this country.

HOWEVER, to suggest that the earlier immigrants came here with a “means of support’ is a bit disingenuous; and that would be putting it mildly. It just depends on which time period you’re talking about. Because, at the bottom line, (and particularly because the US is such a YOUNG country) anyone who is not of Native American dissent, is an immigrant, illegal or otherwise. There is no getting around that fact. Christopher Columbus was an illegal alien.

Many of the immigrants from the earliest days of this nation, did NOT come here with a ‘means of support’ or some overwhelming desire to be proud Americans. So, we should probably re-visit that myth, in order to get things straight on the immigration issue at hand. Because, in the most basic of explanations, anyone other than the landed gentry that set-up house here in order to plant (tobacco, rice, and later sugar) ALL came to this land for the same reasons that the Mexicans and other North Americans are now coming, and have been coming, for the past 400 years. They came to work, (either voluntarily or involuntarily). They came as indentured servants, or as slave servants. They came because many of them were exiled/banished from their European roots. And they came because of famine, drought, and other conditions that forced them to flee the European countries at the time. There was much ‘upheaval’ Europe at the time, and it was that which forced so many to come to the New World,

In so doing, they imported diseases, and other unfavorable conditions to which the Native population was not suited to survive. Much of that same Native population was intentionally infected with these diseases. So, as we saw the population of IMMIGRANTS from Europe continue to increase, we saw the population of the Natives continue to decrease. Again, this was not that long ago, (17th and 18th Centuries) and again, I would point out that it all came about, for the very same reasons that we have immigration now – be it legal or illegal.

It is not a difficult effort to parallel the initial immigration to America, (by the Europeans) to the immigration of any group of peoples today, but specifically those from Mexico and other points within the Americas. They arrived because the elites of Europe used them to affect their own economic/business enterprises. They used them the very same way that the Corporations and other ‘elites’ of America have utilized immigrant labor for the past several decades. Here again, it was simply not that long ago.

I have a few academic journal articles/periodicals that explain this all is very informative context. I’ll be happy to post any of them for anyone who would like to read up on this stuff, as soon as I check the copyright and other issues for posting. (JSTOR is a service that allows for access to this now digitalized material, but I’m not certain what the access requirements are, so I’ll check that out first).

Meantime, let us all beware of cherry-picking history. It leads to great misunderstandings.

#110904 by mary

#110899, Rdv in response, my grandparents came to this country legally!  They came with a means of support and a strong desire to be proud Americans

Mary, no disrespect intended here, but just for the sake of education and enlightenment, (maybe for all of us) maybe you and others can check out the actual state of ‘legality’ in immigration, dating back to the beginnings of this nation, as it was called, “America”. Or, the New World, or the Colonies, or whatever.

It is actually a very fascinating subject, though I admit it’s time consuming to wade through and absorb in context to what we consider to be the ‘legalities’ of any ‘immigration’ into this country.

HOWEVER, to suggest that the earlier immigrants came here with a “means of support’ is a bit disingenuous; and that would be putting it mildly. It just depends on which time period you’re talking about. Because, at the bottom line, (and particularly because the US is such a YOUNG country) anyone who is not of Native American dissent, is an immigrant, illegal or otherwise. There is no getting around that fact. Christopher Columbus was an illegal immigrant.

Many of the immigrants from the earliest days of this nation, did NOT come here with a ‘means of support’ or some overwhelming desire to be proud Americans. So, we should probably re-visit that myth, in order to get things straight on the immigration issue at hand. Because, in the most basic of explanations, anyone other than the landed gentry that set-up house here in order to plant (tobacco, rice, and later sugar) ALL came to this land for the same reasons that the Mexicans and other North Americans are now coming, and have been coming, for the past 400 years. They came to work, (either voluntarily or involuntarily). They came as indentured servants, or as slave servants. They came because many of them were exiled/banished from their European roots. Again, this was not so long ago.

It is not a difficult effort to parallel the initial immigration to American, (by the Europeans) to the immigration of any group of peoples today, but specifically those from Mexico and other points within the Americas. They arrived because the elites of Europe used them to affect their own economic/business enterprises. They used them the very same way that the Corporations and other ‘elites’ of America have utilized immigrant labor for the past several decades. Here again, it was simply not that long ago.

I have a few academic journal articles/periodicals that explain this all is very informative context. I’ll be happy to post any of them for anyone who would like to read up on this stuff, as soon as I check the copyright and other issues for posting. (JSTOR is a service that allows for access to this now digitalized material, but I’m not certain what the access requirements are, so I’ll check that out first).

Meantime, let us all beware of cherry-picking history. It leads to great misunderstandings.

The answer to illegal immigrants is to deport them when they are caught, the same as Mexico and other countries do.  They can take their kids along, even if the children were born here.  Many children live in countries they were not born in—including the children of U.S. military personnel (and business people) stationed overseas:  think multiculturalism.

The time has come to flush out those who oppose enforcement of immigration laws and demand to know if these people favor open borders (and the consequent end of the social safety net in this country).

And it is time for the elite to start washing their own clothes and mowing their own lawns, or to pay Americans the requisite wages for doing so.

Perhaps, Mary, doing it legally was an option for the millions who populated this country. And I do find it slightly offensive that you assume the mantle of “proud American” as something you solely have the right to possess—in addition to the fact that South Americans—Latin america are also Americans and can probably trace their roots back much further on the continent.
Those ugly sentiments on the walls of Ellis Island still echo today.

Someone tell me this column is a joke.

She’s presenting the standard FalseChoice between an amnesty and mass deportations. If she hasn’t heard of the alternatives, can what she writes be trusted? If she has heard of the alternatives, then she’s lying to you. Since FredThompson has come out for one of those alternatives, it’s clear that she’s either lying to you or completely misinformed.

As for the “think tank estimate”</a>, it was a joke study from the Center for American Progress a group linked to not just the Clintons but indirectly linked to the Mexican government. And, it used an extremely flawed methodology to arrive at its estimated cost.

As for “family values”, what exactly were the parents of those children thinking when they decided to put their children into such a situation? Surely, even Cocco can see it’s bad public policy to further encourage illegal aliens to put even more children into such a situation.

#110899, Rdv in response, my grandparents came to this country legally!  They came with a means of support and a strong desire to be proud Americans.  They worked hard and raised their 9 children to cherish their sacrafice for them to be born in this country so they could aspire to everything it means to be an American Citizen.  We should not give this away like a cheap toy.  This is serious stuff and we need to be serious when we open our borders.  I have no problem with legal immigration or immigrants from any country as long as they want to be Americans when they are granted the privildge of US Citizenship and amnisty is not the way….....

So Mary, where do your people come from? We are a nation of immigrants for the most part, and they were treated pretty shabbily—as scapegoats really, by the WASP ruling classes. Take a trip to Ellis Island and look at some of the political cartoons to get an idea of just how ruthless it was.
  Other human being have the right to exist on this planet and migrations of people has been going on since the first of our ancestors wandered out of Africa.

Why the hell do we continue to see this sophomoric garbage from Marie Coccopuffs????

I’m sorry, but any candidate who pushes amnisty for illegal aliens will not get my vote.  I don’t care what country they are from.  This country needs to secure the borders first, go after employers who exploit this poor group of people, and think about what it means to become a US Citizen.  Social Security knows who is here legally or not, start there.  And voting needs to be cherished right, not a give-away…

The Horton ad campaign conducted on behalf of George H.W. Bush’s candidacy was decried as racist and distorted. But it worked. And it became emblematic of how to run a devastatingly effective negative campaign.

Of course it worked…any time you play to the base instincts of a population, the result will be emotional, reactive, and not rational…how the hell do you think we have gotten to this sorry state in America?????

Clinton’s true failing—and the most revealing thing about her character, is that she waffled in her attempt to triangulate. It exposes her as the opportunist she is rather than a person of strong, solid values. Typical Clinton strategy to always opt for cagey, non-commital strategies over a moral foundation that supports meaning—what one stands and fights for. When it comes down to the wire, the Clintons will always throw what defines Democratic values overboard while continuing the rhetoric of compassion and caring.
  The problem with the Clintons is they are always ready to forfeit the higher moral ground and that leaves the party rudderless.
  Now the Clinton campaign is trying to ratchet up the Poor widdle Hillary got piled on by those big mean boys angle….as if the Republicans are planning to coddle her. This was the test and she failed—because you can not frame the woman as competent and in-charge and then turn around and whine that she is a victim. There have been other women that have stood strong—but they actually had a cause or an issue to champion. Clinton, as usual, is all about Clinton, and she seems to think it is hers for the taking without having to withstand the heat in the kitchen.

I think the GOP is committing suicide with the immigration issue, but the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot with it.

Immigration is the Third Rail of Hispanic politics.  The GOP DESPERATELY needs and counts on Hispanic voters for their slim majority—Conservative and Catholic they tend to favor GOP candidates.  But working class and on the edge, they favor the more humane policies of the Dems.

But when it comes to immigration, this touches them to their heart—the issues are clearly racist, and close to home. We assume anyone with a Hispanic accent and an olive complexion is illegal.  But Hispanics are THE largest minority voting bloc, representing, what? 15-20% of voters?

So far they’ve favored Dems but been heavily supportive of the GOP.  The GOP has already written off African-Americans since 90% vote Democratic, knowing DAMN well there’s nothing the GOP can or will do for them—and the GOP has continued its racist path that Nixon began in 1968.

But Hispanics see in the GOP rhetoric and “tough talk” both racism and a move to fascism that out-strips ALL the “Conservative” values they like in the GOP.

Think about it: How many countries in Latin and South America have truly democratic regimes? Well, a good number now.  But how many, in the last 30 years have gone through fascist rule, and face it again? Guatemala is democratic, but is rapidly sinking into corruption and fascism.  Chile went from democracy to the Junta to democracy.  Mexico was dominated by ONE PARTY for something like 70 years.  Argentina was ruled by a junta as recently as the Falklands War.

Hispanics came to the US to flee those regimes as well as the grinding poverty.  They aren’t stupid: They SEE the signs of fascism and oppression just like the rest of us—and the place they see it most and are most sensitive to is the question of illegal immigrants—and the simplistic, draconian policies of the GOP.

All the Dems have to do is stop tripping over their own feet and they will OWN the Hispanic vote in America.