“Not to stoke any of the inane conspiracy theories running wild on the Internet”

What conspiracy theories, and why are they inane?  Like so many in your circle, you don’t explain.  You mock and you posture.  You also mock people for giving in to “war on terror” hysteria, thereby negating the horror of 9/11.  Does that make easier for you to sweep it under the rug?  Sorry, I don’t forget so easily.  The event was mass murder that has led to much more killing, and it needs to be properly investigated and acountability properly assigned.  Mockery won’t make this go away.

But your article gets close to one possibility—a group associated with defense contractors and intelligence services engineered the event without Bush’s knowledge, and the system went along with it afterwards.

cyrena
If you’re not paranoid, you’re not paying attention.
Obviously you are paying attention.

Just ran across this over at http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

Olberman drops a bomb on Cheney’s S&M;Krewe

“Finally tonight, as promised, a Special Comment on the meaning of the story of former U.S. Acting Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin.
“It is a fact startling in its cynical simplicity and it requires cynical and simple words to be properly expressed:

“The Presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush.

“All the petulancy, all the childish threats, all the blank-stare stupidity;

“All the invocations of World War Three, all the sophistic questions about which terrorist attacks we wanted him not to stop, all the phony secrets;

“All the claims of executive privilege, all the stumbling tap-dancing of his nominees, all the verbal flatulence of his apologists…

“All of it is now—after one revelation last week—transparently clear for what it is: the pathetic and desperate manipulation of the government, the re-focusing of our entire nation, towards keeping this mock president, and this unstable vice president, and this departed wildly self-over-rating Attorney General—and the others—from potential prosecution for having approved or ordered the illegal torture of prisoners being held in the name of this country.”

*

“The Presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush.”

*

A quote for the ages. Maybe to be engraved over the entrance to the cave donated for W’s library.

And this little gem:

Cheney Pursuing Nuclear Ambitions of His Own

“While Dick Cheney has been talking tough over the years about Iran’s alleged nuclear activities, the vice president has been quietly pursuing nuclear ambitions of his own.

For more than two years, Cheney and a relatively unknown administration official, Deputy Energy Secretary Clay Sell, have been regularly visiting the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to ensure agency officials rewrite regulatory policies and bypass public hearings in order to streamline the licensing process for energy companies that have filed applications to build new nuclear power reactors, as well as applications for new nuclear facilities that are expected to be filed by other companies in the months ahead, longtime NRC officials said.”

*

Geez, who needs a congress when we’ve got a bush and a Dick?

“rewrite regulatory policies and bypass public hearings”

Well dog’gon, is that another impeachable offense?

I remember when Cheney debated Edwards, he pointed out the American people would never have to worry about him [Cheney] running for the office of president. I remember saying, “Course not. You already got the position by default!” And wondering why Edwards didn’t say the same thing !?!

One of those ARGHHH moments ...

#111858 by Louise on 11/05 at 8:26 pm

..."Somebody mention “Mission Accomplished” ?
We all know Bush was a Pilot in the Air Force, right?
[Stop laughing out loud and read..”

Louise,
How did you know? (that I was laughing out loud) You already know I’m overly paranoid. Imagine how it felt for me to read you telling me to stop doing exactly what I was doing.

Ya know, I once asked one of my less-than-brilliant cousins, (retired Air Force aircraft mechanic, and great fan of the harnessed-crotch shrub) if HE would be willing to ‘take a spin’ with the moron at the controls. Like, just him and georgie boy, cruising the skies. He never did answer me. Maybe he’s not as stupid as I thought. Then again, I’m not sure I’d fly any aircraft that he had ‘maintenanced’ either.

Anyway, I’m on it. (the calling that we have to do on the Cheney impeachment). Good thing you reminded us. Stuff is starting to really run together these days.

Somebody mention “Mission Accomplished” ?

We all know Bush was a Pilot in the Air Force, right?

[Stop laughing out loud and read]

When the chief decider guy prepared to make his valiant landing on the carrier to tell us he had won his war, the San Diego skyline was spitin’ distance from the deck. So, the royal bush proper-uppers made them turn the carrier around, so it would look like his highnessness was boldly flying out to sea to great his returning warriors.

That low note should have warned us, it would all be downhill from there. Down hill as in, no bottom to the drop.

Ever wonder why those guys and gals in uniform were screaming and laughing, and trying to get a photo, up close and personal with POTUS? Answers pretty simple. They want to be able to show and tell their kids and grandkids about this man whose flying experience is so limited he doesn’t even have the sense to let his balls out of a vice! [OUCH] As in, it’s a good idea to undo the crotch straps so you can walk like a man sir. Looking a little like a chimp waddling across the deck hardly speaks of brave and noble, but sure says ... no experienced pilot here!

Gosh folks, we are part of history.
How many people can say they witnessed from beginning to end, the development of a world leader?
Well, never mind what kind of development.

Remember, call your representative in the morning!
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml

IMPEACH CHENEY!

What a wonderful message that would be to send bush ... “Uhh Sir, your backside is missing.”

Dick Cheney Deserves an Up or Down Vote;

Kucinich to force vote on impeachment resolution

DO SOMETHING!
One Sponsor, 21 Cosponsors
http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Tomorrow folks, TOMORROW!

We all complain no-one in congress will do anything. Here’s your chance to help them do the right thing!

DO YOU KNOW HOW YOUR CONGRESSMAN WILL ACT?

FIND OUT !!!

Call his/her office FIRST THING IN THE MORNING!

Dennis wants to help us, LETS HELP HIM!

#111537 by Nabih Ammari
Nabih, on Bush repudiating all debt…
• -Yes,indeed,all U.S. debt will vanish and Bush will
be smiling in triumph;just the way he acted with
bravado on the U.S.military carrier ship with the
big sign “Mission Accomplished” over his head,after
the fall of Baghdad,more than four years ago.
-The smile will be wiped off of his face as soon as
his advisers tell him that all American Banks have
already collapsed because of the collapse of the dollar.
Herein lies another irony, (at least in the comparison to mission accomplished). As we know the mission accomplished to be a total phony from the start, it only adds to the whole hypocrisy of it to realize, (and I didn’t until later) that the photo op was staged on a Navy ship in San Diego. (surely it was intended to appear to be In Iraq, and the Palm trees at least are quite similar). But, I compare that to the worthlessness of the US dollar that you’ve predicted. And while I certainly hope that it doesn’t become a reality, it would be foolish to remain in denial about this.
But, I’m not so sure that the smile would be wiped off of bushes face, when he discovers this, because…I’m sure he already knows that. Cheney definitely does. And, they are protected. They’ve long since converted their own US dollars to a sounder currency. (probably many). It wasn’t a surprise when Halliburton made a new home in Dubai, and surely there are others we don’t know about as yet. Off shore accounts are bulging, and the dollar has become more and more deflated.
If there are any remaining members of his Cabal who DON’T know this, and they get ‘stuck’, THEN maybe he would worry. (somebody would be looking to kick his ass) But, I’m inclined to think there’s a back up plan for that as well. An escape hatch if you will. 
That’s just my guess, even though it’s the ultimate nightmare. (well, maybe not THE ultimate nightmare, since these people are capable of anything). Still, I think he’s got himself covered. If not, Cheney does.
#111573 by Verne Arnold
Ref: #111477 by Frank Cajon
• All you people ever talk about is how the evil Jews are taking over the world and Bush blew up the WTC. Get over yourselves.

Report this comment

Frank, you got it right...I wish you peace...the wingnuts are just that...do not worry them...they will go away.

Verne, just curious, is there a hidden message here, that maybe only you and FC understand? Might FC not be the wingnut? I mean really, how many of us concentrate on how the Evil Jews are taking over the world? (not to dismiss the atrocities of Israel against the Palestinians). And, would it not be a ‘wingnut’ who would SPECIFICALLY accuse the shrub HIMSELF of blowing up the WTC? I mean really, does anyone actually believe that bush himself arranged that? I’m reading FC as the wingnut who will hopefully fall back to lurking status, and that probably needs to get over himself. I mean, if he’s so convinced that everybody else is wrong, and he’s right, then why keep bringing this up?

I haven’t seen godsend around in ages.

#111658 by Frank Cajon

Yes Frank, PSA came to my mind as well, though I didn’t remember the flight number.
I’ve already acknowledge that these air disasters are indeed traumatic, so I didn’t need a description, because I’ve been present at too many. I’ve said before, it was a career. I didn’t need any cajones to continue to do my job, because that’s what it was. It was distressing, (and depressing) just as it must be for any physician to lose a patient. For me, it just worked out that way. It was just part of my many job functions in the aviation industry, over a long period of time. Again, a professional responsibility/obligation.

As for the black boxes, they’re actually orange and white. (at least the older ones) One does the voice recording, the other records the actual flight data, from start to finish. I could go into a detailed explanation on what they’re made of, and how they are intentionally designed to withstand the most extreme of the extreme, (since that’s the whole point) but I believe it would be wasted on you. Still, here’s a link if you want to know more about them, though I wouldn’t say it’s the BEST. It would still answer your basic questions on what they’re made of.
http://travel.howstuffworks.com/black-box6.htm

As for your instance on assuming that ANYONE who questions the official story is a conspiracy theorist looking to blame the Israelis…that TOO is unfortunate, because it keeps you stupid. I’ve warned time and time again, against the ‘either/or mentality’, but some folks just seem stuck in it. The whole “Israeli connection” is actually relatively new to me. I’ve only begun to link those things together, based on what has become available on line, and over the years. It was not a connection that I initially made, based on my own professional knowledge, because my professional knowledge was strictly limited to whether or not the events of that day were even POSSIBLE. They did not seem AT ALL possible, (to me) from day one.

HOWEVER, I waited patiently for what I assumed would be the normal and routine investigations that are ALWAYS conducted after such disasters, and….none ever came. Nothing came until the widows of some victims killed in the WTC that day, insisted on it, and lobbied for it.  The bush administration was adamantly opposed to ANY investigation, which surely seemed ‘odd’, since –as I’ve already mentioned- these investigations ALWAYS happen after an air disaster. Some are completely quickly; others take longer. It wasn’t until January, 2004…over 3 years after the fact, when the 9/11 Commission came out with the “Official Report/Conspiracy”, and I was actually required to read it for some course study.

It was that report itself, and my reading of it, based again, on my own professional knowledge, that confirmed my original suspicions. I knew that the official story was a lie…several lies. Even THEN, I had no knowledge of or even awareness of any Israeli connection.

So, here’s the deal frank, even though I get tired of saying it. From my own professional standpoint, I can verify that the events of 9/11 were not perpetrated by 19 highjackers with box cutters. I can also confirm that the WTC DID NOT collapse as a result of those commercial aircraft hitting those towers.
I’ve yet to find any concrete PROOF that any “Israelis” were involved. There is also NO CONCRETE PROOF that Arab terrorists were involved either. There are millions of physical and logistical inconsistencies to the official conspiracy theory. I haven’t seen godsend around in a while, but it’s not to your advantage to lump me with anyone else.

For the record, the towers were destroyed by controlled demolition, and no 757 ever hit the Pentagon. I don’t know who set up the towers for destruction, nor do I know what happened to the passengers and crew from AA flt 77 or UA flt 93. Nothing changes the truth of these facts, including your layperson’s comparison to your own experience.

Such as it is.

For the benefit of Cyrena: the jet was as I recall without bothering to research it a PSA Flight 182, and there were 135 people on it. You know what happens to your luggage when the jet explodes in a fireball? It gets blown into little pieces of material you cound pass through a wedding ring, along with everything else, the seats, the metal everything. It took cajones for me to get on an airplane for ten years after that experience and the biggest question I had was what in the hell do they make the ‘black boxes’ out of.
Don’t worry about Conspiracytheorydig being haunted by my blogs. I have been turned back into a lurker by Godsend, yourself, and the many like-minded who do not see George W Bush as an evil fascist threat to our democracy, but instead are busy with over the top conspiracy theories about how Israeli secret agents dictating US policy and blowing up the WTC, and staging it to ‘appear’ like a terrorist act. In my opinion, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

#111580 by Louise on 11/04 at 8:11 am:

#110683 by voice of truth - “Just remember that every dollar we spend on defense gives someone a job.  At least that is better than giving it to deadbeats.”

#”...In the new and improved “stand up for totalitarianism” new and [not] improved democracy of the 21st century, there is no shortage of “growth” opportunity for the deadbeat...!”

Duh, and they all get their little bit of power to wield over people too....... Clockwork Orange, the movie - the police are more brutal than the criminals!

#110683 by voice of truth

“Just remember that every dollar we spend on defense gives someone a job.  At least that is better than giving it to deadbeats.”

Right ...

They’re working at the security screening stations in airports. And maybe packing guns on the border. And taking stun-gun training to back up the shortage of cops on the beat. And screening our emails and phone calls looking for a “terrorist” and, cheering from the sidelines when the POTUS [sorta] speaks. And writing Osama’s scripts.

In the new and improved “stand up for totalitarianism” new and [not] improved democracy of the 21st century, there is no shortage of “growth” opportunity for the deadbeat!

#111477 by Frank Cajon on 11/03 at 7:38 pm
(86 comments total)

I generally avoid this board, bored with the ranting of some. Now, back for a look and in a totally unrelated thread, another engineering discussion about jet aircraft crashes. I don’t like to talk about this, but will anyway: have any of you experts ever been on the scene of a passenger jet crash right after it happened? I have.
In 1978 my late brother and I were on a San Diego freeway driving towards the south and saw an airliner, on fire on one side, carreening towards the ground. It just missed the freeway not 1/4 mile ahead of us, crashing about three blocks away with a huge boom louder than any sonic boom, and we stopped his van, climbed a bank and then the chain link fence, and then ran three or four blocks into hell.
That jet went straight into a street, and there was nothing but fires, houses burning, little pieces of metal and plastic torn to shreds flying in the winds, and smoke. Everything smelled like smoke and kerosene. We saw three houses burning immediately and one man came out of one streaming blood, when my brother, who was a huge man and offered to help, started to talk to the guy, he ran away. We saw another lady covered with burns on her lawn, which was on fire. There were no cops or firemen there, we didn’t see anyone but us and some stunned-looking people who were in the other houses walking around. Nobody but us seemed to know a plane had crashed. We were looking for passengers from the plane. There were none, the only sign was a foot in a shoe my brother found in a pile of smoking plastic. There were no pieces of fuselage, no wings, no tail, nothing. The explosion sent pieces of metal and plastic blocks away. A police car came but was busy, then more, they talked to us, and then they sent us away. My brother had nightmares about that foot for 20 years. That night on TV we learned that big pieces of the plane went into houses and started fires, I think an entire engine through one roof, and that another plane went down a few blocks away and started more fires-there had been a midair collision, and 9 people died on the ground. I don’t pretend to be an expert on jet airliner crashes. My memories from that day are that 135 people were in that plane and were alive when we saw the plane going nose down into the East San Diego neighborhood and when we got there within five minutes, they were vaporized along with 90% of that plane the split second it hit the ground. We didn’t see a piece of that plane bigger than a baseball.
Now, all you experts can get back to you jet plane crash discussions and theories. Jesus, I haven’t talked about that day in 20 years. This board sucks. No wonder we have a Nazi president, two near-Nazi wannabe contenders for the next president, and are laundering 2 and a half trillion bucks into the pockets of US warlords over the next five years, but can’t get child health care. All you people ever talk about is how the evil Jews are taking over the world and Bush blew up the WTC. Get over yourselves.

Report this comment

Frank, you got it right...I wish you peace...the wingnuts are just that...do not worry them...they will go away.

FBI: No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11

The Muckraker Report, June 6, 2006, and Ithaca Journal, June 29, 2006
Title: “FBI says, ‘No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11’”
Author: Ed Haas
http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html

Student Researcher: Bianca May and Morgan Ulery
Faculty Evaluator: Ben Frymer, Ph.D. 

Osama bin Laden’s role in the events of September 11, 2001 is not mentioned on the FBI’s “Ten Most Wanted” poster.
On June 5, 2006, author Ed Haas contacted the Federal Bureau of Investigation headquarters to ask why, while claiming that bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 1998 bombings of US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the poster does not indicate that he is wanted in connection with the events of 9/11.
Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI responded, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” Asked to explain the process, Tomb responded, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice then decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”

Haas strongly suggests that we begin asking questions, “The fact that the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Osama bin Laden to 9/11 should be headline news around the world. The challenge to the reader is to find out why it is not. Why has the US media blindly read the government-provided 9/11 scripts, rather than investigate without passion, prejudice, or bias, the events of September 11, 2001? Why has the US media blacklisted any guest that might speak of a government-sponsored 9/11 cover-up, rather than seeking out those people who have something to say about 9/11 that is contrary to the government’s account?” Haas continues. “Who is controlling the media message,and how is it that the FBI has no ‘hard evidence’ connecting Osama bin Laden to the events of September 11, 2001, while the US media has played the bin Laden-9/11 connection story for [six] years now as if it has conclusive evidence that bin Laden is responsible for the collapse of the twin towers, the Pentagon attack, and the demise of United Flight 93?”

http://www.projectcensored.org/censored_2008/index.htm

#111477 by Frank Cajon on 11/03 at 7:38 pm: “...I generally avoid this board, bored with the ranting of some....”

Can always blog here http://english.cri.cn/ - just click “Talk China” at the top...... ckeck their “In the News” section, huh.

Actually,

I need to make a correction, it was 30 years ago, not 40, that Frank is talking about. I’ve managed to pound the numbers off of my keyboard. (probably from writing to morons like frank cajones)

I also think those were little airplanes too, but I couldn’t swear to it. I can’t even remember the name of that airline now, since they’ve since merged and merged again. It’ll come to me. Then again, maybe not.

#111527 by cyrena on 11/04 at 1:20 am (1438 comments total)#111477 by Frank Cajon -

“Frank, you tried, and you blew it. Nobody believes...”

Vote cyrena for attorney-general, ha ha!!!

#111477 by Frank Cajon

Still an asshole, eh Frank? You write this, and we get excited:

• I generally avoid this board, bored with the ranting of some. Now, back for a look and in a totally unrelated thread, another engineering discussion about jet aircraft crashes.

We think, ah good, he’s not gonna get on his rant again. But of course, you go right ahead with this:

• I don’t like to talk about this, but will anyway: have any of you experts ever been on the scene of a passenger jet crash right after it happened? I have.

Well gee frank cajones,

If you don’t like to talk about it, why the hell DID you? And, as a matter of fact, I HAVE been on the scene of a FEW passenger jet crashes, right after they happened. I even remember this particular one, though I wasn’t on the scene of it. So, let me tell you a few things from a professional standpoint:

There is ALWAYS an emergency response team that arrives at the scene of an air disaster, though it would make sense to pretty much any reasonable or logical person, that the location of the disaster would have a great deal to do with the timing and the quantity of the response. Still, there is ALWAYS a response. Now, YOUR timing is more than a little bit off, since you remember this accident as having occurred in 1978, and I remember it having occurred then as well. THAT WAS 40 flippin’ years ago frank, (sorry, 39) What kind of an airplane was it? Do you remember the airlines or the flight numbers involved? How do you remember the number of passengers? Did that include the passengers from the other flight that had been hit in the mid-air collision? What happened to that airplane? Did you see it burn up a bunch of houses as well?

Frank, you tried, and you blew it. Nobody believes, (at least not anyone who has actually witnessed air disasters, and made a career out of responding to them) that it was all ordinary and standard for not one piece of a rescue operation to show up at some place like the PENTAGON. And nobody that has responded to as many air disasters as I have, believes that there was NO EVIDENCE of the aircraft left. In short frank, you’re full of shit, or your memory is faulty after these 40 years.

Yes, you WOULD have smelled a kerosene type odor –IMMEDIATELY after the crash. And, it would have lasted as long as the kerosene type odor that you smell when you use it to light charcoal on a bar-b-que. Have you ever done that frank? Do you notice how when you put the lighter fluid on the charcoal, and then light it up, the stuff will burn brightly and throw off that smell for a minute or so, and then the flames die down, and the odor goes away. Tell us about those houses frank. If my own memory serves me, they were frame houses with those highly dangerous roof tiles that have been since outlawed in California, though there are structures that still have them. BUT, I could be wrong, since it’s been 40 years.

I DO understand how your brother could have been traumatized by the sight. Many of my former co-workers have experienced the same, The after-effects of such deadly disasters are horrific. Some never get over it.
But, here’s the deal frank. THERE are ALWAYS signs left behind, unless they’ve been pulverized by explosives, such as the WTC on 9/11. Or, the Pentagon, where no 757 ever crashed. Those are big airplanes frank, but not big enough to explode the towers at the WTC, and big enough to have left some trace of themselves at the Pentagon. There WAS an emergency response in NYC. (why do you think all of those police and firefighters died?) There was NOT an emergency response at the Pentagon. Not right away, (which it should have been) and NOT LATER EITHER!!

Please continue to ignore/avoid this board Frank. Your efforts are wasted on people who know better. You might also update your air disaster knowledge base. Sadly, there have been others in the past 40 years. ALL have footage and files you can access. Unless you just want to stay in denial.

#111464 by Robert on 11/03 at 4:57 pm: “Incompetence or Cover-Up? The Air Force Report on the Minot-Barksdale Nuclear Missile Flight According to some reports, Cheney has even, on his own authority (or lack thereof), urged Israel to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, in hopes that Iran might retaliate, thus drawing the US into a war........”

Compare this for size, Robert..... ‘USAF struck Syrian nuclear site’ - Nov 2, 2007 - By JPOST.COM: “The September 6 raid over Syria was carried out by the US Air Force, the Al-Jazeera Web site reported Friday. The Web site quoted Israeli and Arab sources as saying that two US jets armed with tactical nuclear weapons carried out an attack on a suspected nuclear site under construction..... The sources were quoted as saying that Israeli F-15 and F-16 jets provided cover for the US planes. The sources added that each US plane carried one tactical nuclear weapon and that the site was hit by one bomb and was totally destroyed......” http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=11923807185 19&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull and scroll down.......

I generally avoid this board, bored with the ranting of some. Now, back for a look and in a totally unrelated thread, another engineering discussion about jet aircraft crashes. I don’t like to talk about this, but will anyway: have any of you experts ever been on the scene of a passenger jet crash right after it happened? I have.
In 1978 my late brother and I were on a San Diego freeway driving towards the south and saw an airliner, on fire on one side, carreening towards the ground. It just missed the freeway not 1/4 mile ahead of us, crashing about three blocks away with a huge boom louder than any sonic boom, and we stopped his van, climbed a bank and then the chain link fence, and then ran three or four blocks into hell.
That jet went straight into a street, and there was nothing but fires, houses burning, little pieces of metal and plastic torn to shreds flying in the winds, and smoke. Everything smelled like smoke and kerosene. We saw three houses burning immediately and one man came out of one streaming blood, when my brother, who was a huge man and offered to help, started to talk to the guy, he ran away. We saw another lady covered with burns on her lawn, which was on fire. There were no cops or firemen there, we didn’t see anyone but us and some stunned-looking people who were in the other houses walking around. Nobody but us seemed to know a plane had crashed. We were looking for passengers from the plane. There were none, the only sign was a foot in a shoe my brother found in a pile of smoking plastic. There were no pieces of fuselage, no wings, no tail, nothing. The explosion sent pieces of metal and plastic blocks away. A police car came but was busy, then more, they talked to us, and then they sent us away. My brother had nightmares about that foot for 20 years. That night on TV we learned that big pieces of the plane went into houses and started fires, I think an entire engine through one roof, and that another plane went down a few blocks away and started more fires-there had been a midair collision, and 9 people died on the ground. I don’t pretend to be an expert on jet airliner crashes. My memories from that day are that 135 people were in that plane and were alive when we saw the plane going nose down into the East San Diego neighborhood and when we got there within five minutes, they were vaporized along with 90% of that plane the split second it hit the ground. We didn’t see a piece of that plane bigger than a baseball.
Now, all you experts can get back to you jet plane crash discussions and theories. Jesus, I haven’t talked about that day in 20 years. This board sucks. No wonder we have a Nazi president, two near-Nazi wannabe contenders for the next president, and are laundering 2 and a half trillion bucks into the pockets of US warlords over the next five years, but can’t get child health care. All you people ever talk about is how the evil Jews are taking over the world and Bush blew up the WTC. Get over yourselves.

November 1, 2007

Incompetence or Cover-Up?
The Air Force Report on the Minot-Barksdale Nuclear Missile Flight

By DAVE LINDORFF

“It makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck.”

Pentagon official
========

We need honest answers to some hard questions. Among them:

* Who disabled the alarm systems on those weapons and on the bunker itself?

* Who mounted six nuclear weapons on the noses of six cruise missiles and put those missiles onto a B-52 launch platform?

* Who authorized them to perform this operation?

* Who moved the armed weapons out of the Bunker at Minot AFB and mounted them on the wing of a B-52 bound for Barksdale AFB? (Barksdale, it should be noted, bills itself as the main staging base for B-52s being flown to the Middle East Theater.)

* Were the six missiles flyable? Were they fueled up and ready to fire, or were they not fueled at the time of the Minot-Barksdale flight?

* Was there targeting information in the missile’s guidance computers and if so, what were those targets?

* What happened to the three military whistleblowers who blew the whistle on this incident and reported it to a journalist at the newspaper Military Times?

* Why hasn’t the Air Force or the FBI investigated the 6-8 untimely deaths including three alleged suicides, one of a Minot weapons guard, one of an assistant defense secretary, and one of a captain in the super-secret Air Force Special Commando Group, as well as alleged fatal vehicle “accidents” involving four ground crew and B-52 pilots and crewmembers at Minot and Barksdale? Could any of this strange cluster of deaths have been related to the incident? The Air Force “investigation” didn’t even mention these incidents, and my investigation, reported in the Oct. 24 issue of the magazine American Conservative, found that none of the police investigators or medical examiners in those incidents had even been contacted by Air Force or other federal investigators.

The Secretary of Defense appears to have been upset about this incident. Secretary Robert Gates ordered an unprecedented stand-down of all air bases in mid-September to check out and account for the entire nuclear inventory, and a general was dispatched immediately to Minot after the discovery of the wayward nukes on August 30 to investigate what had happened. Following a subsequent Air Force investigation, 70 people at Minot and Barksdale AFBs were removed from their posts and decertified from handling nuclear weapons, including five officers, one of them the Minot base commander.

* But a base commander does not have the authority to order nuclear weapons to be loaded on a plane and flown. So who issued that order and why has no one at a senior level in Washington been sacked?

There is speculation that the order may have come via an alternate chain of command.

Vice President Dick Cheney is known to be pressing within the administration for a war with Iran, to be launched before the end President Bush’s second term of office. According to some reports, Cheney has even, on his own authority (or lack thereof), urged Israel to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities, in hopes that Iran might retaliate, thus drawing the US into a war.

Could the nation’s war-mongering VP have used his neo-con contacts in the Defense Department or some of the Armageddon-believers in the Air Force to bypass the official chain of command and spring those nukes from their bunker?

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff11012007.html

Re: 111046 by Peter Holmes

Thank you, Peter, for getting to the true bottom of this article. Scheer very correctly points to inane conspiracy theories on the internet. But he forgets that they all point to the official 9/11 commission report, which indeed is not worth the piece of hardware it resides on. The true question here is what keeps Scheer from questioning the official 9/11 fairy tale in front of a discerning audience. More interesting yet is what reason or excuse he will come up with when he finally comes out on the side of reason.

Love,

#110607 by SamSnedegar

• I’m not averse to giving bin Laden a cut of the ill gotten gains by Lockheed-Martin and the others, but first let him PROVE he actually had something to do with the hijackers and Mo Atta.

SamSnedegar,
You are sooo right. Not a sliver’s worth of proof that there was ever any connection between the alleged highjackers and bin Laden. And al-Qaeda remains as shadowy as it’s always been, since even at the ‘height’ of the alleged organization, (a merging of bin Laden’s group with the one of Ayman al-Zawahiri, though I’d have to recheck the dates and the original names of both groups before the merger). That’s not to say that OBL didn’t talk big about doing something like this, but there’s just never been a sliver of proof, and for whatever the reasons, the bushies didn’t seem the least bit concerned about ‘catching him’. I mean really, why didn’t they just sic the IRS on his ass if they really wanted to find him. They can find ANYBODY.

OK, let me go find out what OBL left in his will. It’s like the last few chapters of the book. It doesn’t say anything about Lock-heed Martin in the index though.

So, I’m with you and 911truthdotorg

#110586 by 911truthdotorg

• My God, if 9/11 were an episode of Law and Order or CSI, the truth would have been discovered on the second day after the disaster.

It’s the truth. And, even if it wasn’t L & O or CSI, they would have at least figured it out by the end of the week. (Ok, so maybe even 2 months for the really detailed stuff that the NTSB generally does in real life air disasters.)

But alas, none of the standard stuff took place on 9-11. No NTSB, no disaster response teams, (at least not at the Pentagon or in that field in Shanksville, PA) and the only response teams in NYC were the locals. I don’t know if even the Port Authority showed up right away. Initially, only the NYFD. In Virginia at the Pentagon, NOBODY showed up as a disaster response team. Just one little fire truck, and I did see two workers with jackets on…one was from FEMA, and the other I can’t remember, but his jacket did have Virginia on the back of it. But, that’s it. Or, at least that’s all we ever saw. Nothing like CSI or Law and Order.

So, I don’t know what happened. Seems like they should have been able to get that basic info right from the jump. At least that’s what’s always happened in other air disasters of the past 50 years.

“Now they’re planning the crime of the century.  Well, what will it be.  Read all about their schemes and adventures, yes, it’s well worth the fee. So roll up and see.  And they rape the universe.  How they’ve gone from bad to worse.

Who are these men of lust, greed and glory.  Rip off the masks and let’s see.”

Supertramp

#111081 by Mudwollow on 11/01 at 9:57 pm: “...And the nuttiest part of this whole thing is that spent on tanks and fancy airplanes doesn’t have a God damn thing to do with defending a nation from terrorist attacks....”

And “all this money” mostly comes from China and Japan and Arab oil states too, uhh! I guess GWB dosen’t really have any intention of ever bothering to pay any of it back, huh?

When the economic/financial grand game is up (very soon) the uSA will be the main loser. That’s when repudiating debt will be the next “justification” for Bush + Co.

How will they do it? Start another war, of course! But the uSA will find itself in an ever-more vulnerable position. Oil for one thing, Trade in importing essentials is another.

Obviously, no-one is going to take US$ for oil any longer - except at the point of a Cruise missile. China and India won’t budge on being bullied any more, though. They’ve played that game far enough.....

I thought the article was great. Someone, everyone should be pointing out the absurdity of building aircraft carriers to defend a nation against box cutter knives, whatever they are. The entire military buildup is a sham. When the Berlin wall fell and Russia’s might crumbled the military-industrial complex went berserk with fear that their business would be ruined. Whatever happened and however it happened at the Twin Towers, it in no way was justification for a traditional military buildup. Even wiping out the fictitious weapons of mass destruction was no excuse for a traditional military buildup. The only excuse for a traditional military buildup is that it’s a great tradition for those who make money on it. The military-industrial complex is so entrenched that it can get a nation to go along with the absurd idea that we need to buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of hardware to defend ourselves against urban guerrillas. Even the idea of stealing natural resources starts to collapse when one realizes that this most recent Yankee boondoggle will eventually cost a couple trillion dollars. They have to sell their oil to someone and 2 trillion could fill a hell of a lot a gas tanks. And the nuttiest part of this whole thing is that all this money spent on tanks and fancy airplanes doesn’t have a God damn thing to do with defending a nation from terrorist attacks.

Hopefully that explains the original point of the box cutter knives and aircraft carriers. Not that it matters that much. Getting rid of the war on terror has the same problem as getting rid of the war on drugs. Too many mortgages attached to those ridiculous, evil and thoroughly un-American institutions.

110980 by Compton Stokes on 11/01 at 1:07 pm: “Very funny Bob..... It has clearly been shown that we are being prepped for this by the administration in a manner quite similar to our “liberation” of Iraq...”

See what you’ve done now, CS? Scheer has pulled the story from the front page of Truthdig. After years interviewing presidents (and getting a few of their wives’ stories in the bedroom, too), he wants to be seen as “supporting the troops” and not like those awful bloggers from Moveon-dot-org or Code Pink!

After all, he does have a new book he wants to sell and he already has his nose out of joint because Hillary was the one president’s wife who he couldn’t get into bed with, uhh. No wonder he is always bagging her on this site. Apart from that, Bill most probably already laid one on him for ungentlemanly comments about her!?!?

Well, they always had the excuse of “liberation” to fall back on with Eye-Rak after the fake WMD’s fiasco. There are no such grand gestures applicable to Eye-Ran, though, as you say, CS.

110953 by Frank on 11/01 at 11:11 am: “...If you still put stock in “Loose Change”, you must have some in your brain cavity.... As a pilot who has used a cellphone from the cockpit at altitude on several occasions (to order pizza/chinese food near Merrill Field)...”

That was in 2001, Frank, not 2007........

Quote: “More significantly, what this carefully drafted script fails to mention is that, given the prevailing technology in September 2001, it was extremely difficult, if not impossible, to place a wireless cell call from an aircraft traveling at high speed above 8000 feet...” http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO408B.html and more at http://physics911.net/projectachilles

Nothing’s ever as simple as it seems.

Did the army decide, early in the 20th century while dragging their gas run machines with horses, they had to control the oil? Or did the families who controlled the railroads, hungry to control that new wealth, decide to use the army and their need for fuel to back up oil grabs in foreign lands? Or did the guys that made those new machines press for war to bring about a need for more of those new machines? Or did some General somewhere see the new machines as silly contraptions and demand they be field tested in war to prove their value?

Is that the real truth behind the story behind the decision to drop the atom bomb on Japan?
The need for field testing?

Same question could be asked about any new weapon.
Same question could be asked about any wealthy family name with ties to railroad, oil, rubber, land, water, sugar, guns, and on it goes. Forward or back. Makes little difference.

Well, except you do keep seeing the SAME names.

It all comes back to ONE thing. Someone somewhere sees an opportunity to make a buck.
Nothing wrong with that, right?

Problem is, the same blood-lines for generations, since the discovery of oil and before, control the capital to back a new idea and the connections to put it together or take it over. And the generational thing has developed an attitude that says, “it’s my right” and there never has been accountability if things goes wrong. So anything and everything will be done to maintain the families “rights” and fortune and connections and power, and hang the consequence.

The oldest story in the world. Older than religion. Older than the wheel. As old as recorded history. The motives, real or imagined may change, but at the end of the day, nothing changes.

Hubris, arrogance, conceit, greed and a complete lack of conscience drive the hunger for more ... are the real reasons for war.

It was true when Rome “Romanized” everyone that had something they wanted, Napoleon “liberated” Spain and all their stuff, and when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia to reunite the “German” people with anything they could steal along the way.

Oh my gosh, it never is about anything else. Not really. If it were, when we promised ourselves after Vietnam, NEVER AGAIN, it never would have happened again.

Bush used Saddam’s intention to convert to the euro as a rallying cry to the wealthy. Or was it the other way around? Rummy used the military to see if his vision of what the military should be, would work. Or was it the other way around?  And Petraeus is doing the same thing, to see if his vision of fighting counterterrorism will work. Or maybe it’s the other way around.

And Cheney? Well Cheney’s just flipping nuts!

Meanwhile as in all empires of all ages, the rich stay home and get richer. The poor fight their battles and get poorer. The victor creates slaves and gathers loot, and eventually the empire collapses under the weight of its own greed.

If the only motive were oil and the petro dollar, they would have done things very differently. As it is, they have done everything in the worst possible way to gain and maintain control of the oil.

But they daily create a need for MORE killing stuff!

“Don’t blame Bush; he didn’t do anything. He never has.” [Great line SamSnedegar #110685] He’s never had too. A long line of ancestors and relatives have done it for him.

And the payoff? Being greedy and entitled doesn’t guarantee a “moron” wont come out of the gene pool every now and again.

Maybe it’s time the “families” give a little thought to what might happen now!

Their bona-fide moron and his favorite bona-fide nut are playing with the nuclear button! And even greedy bastards that never have enough can lose it all in a nuclear holocaust!

Even when those greedy bastards are the ones who made the bomb!

I’m so bloody old I heard President Franklin Roosevelt say, “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” I heard Dwight Eisehower say, “Beware of the military-industrial complex.”

Today there are far too many wimpy Americans willing to sacrifice their precious freedoms - an open society, consent of the governed, enumerated powers, pluralism, due process, transparency - all in the name of their comfort.  The American spirit has died.