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Posted on Oct 25, 2007

By Eugene Robinson

WASHINGTON—Has America become a mean, ungenerous, cramped and crabby nation, a deeply insecure colossus—one that just might be taking all those Viagra and Cialis commercials a bit too personally? Is the country desperate to find scapegoats to blame for a perceived decline in, um, vigor? Or is America still a confident land of hope and promise, a place still potent with possibility?

    It’s watching the Republicans in Congress and on the presidential campaign trail that makes me pose those sweeping questions. I’m just suggesting a context for assessing the actions and rhetoric of a party that seems to be in the throes of andropause.

    That’s the popularly accepted term for “male menopause,” which medical dictionaries tend to describe as a “purported” syndrome rather than an actual clinical diagnosis. I’m not qualified to offer an opinion on whether dads go through a Y-chromosome version of what used to be euphemistically called the “change of life.” But I think the “Daddy Party” has been presenting clear symptoms.

    The latest was the Senate vote Wednesday in which Republicans, supported by a handful of red-state Democrats, narrowly scuttled the Dream Act, a bill that would have provided a path to U.S. citizenship for some young undocumented immigrants—but only those who did everything this country once found worthy and admirable in pursuit of the American Dream.

    Under the proposal, men and women who fulfilled several conditions—they had to be under 30, had to have been brought into the country illegally when they were younger than 16, had to have been in the United States for at least five years and had to be graduates of U.S. high schools—would have been given conditional legal status. If they went on to complete two years of college or two years of military service, they would have been eligible for permanent residency.

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    Let’s see. Here was a way to encourage a bunch of kids to go to college rather than melt into the shadows as off-the-books day laborers—or maybe even gang members. And here was a way to boost enlistment in our overtaxed armed forces. Aren’t education and global competitiveness supposed to be vital issues? Aren’t we fighting open-ended wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    The vote against the Dream Act was so irrational, so counterproductive, that it seemed the product of some sort of hormonal imbalance.

    “I do not believe we should reward illegal behavior,” sniffed Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., who led the successful fight to kill the measure. But the potential beneficiaries of the Dream Act didn’t do anything illegal; it was their parents who made the decision to come here without papers.

    The real reason for denying at least 1 million young people the opportunity to make this nation stronger is that illegal immigration is the scourge du jour. Undocumented immigrants are convenient scapegoats for perceived American decline, convenient targets for the unfocused anger that Republicans seem to believe their constituents feel—the sense that “they,” whoever they might be, are taking something away from “us.”

    George W. Bush’s veto of the bill reauthorizing the popular State Children’s Health Insurance Program—an action backed up by loyal House Republicans—had the same defensive, bitter sense of we’ll-show-them-a-thing-or-two. The Republican Party has to be aware of the polls showing how concerned Americans are about the health insurance crisis. They have to be betting that the act of saying no—in what looked like a fit of andropausal pique—would play better with voters, perhaps subliminally.

    And just listen to the Republican candidates’ rhetoric about our great nation’s place in the world. With the exception of Ron Paul, every one of them agrees that America is under siege, molested not only by dangerous bands of Islamic terrorists—which is true—but also by sovereign nations such as Iran, China and Russia that have had the temerity to pursue what they see as their own national interests. Which is a bizarre way of looking at foreign relations.

    The solution, according to the Republican presidential hopefuls, isn’t give-and-take negotiation. It’s chest-thumping. It’s a series of declarations about what we will find “acceptable” and what we won’t. Maybe this is calculated; maybe they’ve decided that national security is the only issue that gives any of them a chance against any Democrat in 2008.

    But I think they’re badly misreading the country. I think this is still fundamentally a hopeful, generous nation, aware of both its challenges and its strengths. And not yet ready to start downing Levitra by the handful.   

    Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com. 

    © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group


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By Louise, October 30, 2007 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

#110306 by Conservative Yankee on 10/29 at 3:05 pm


110254 by Louise on 10/29 at 8:16 am

“You still didnÂ’t answer the question. How many people should we allow to enter these United States?”

*

Your original statement/question was: “There are (at last count of famine watch) 4.5 Billion people who would like to relocate to greener climes. How many of these folks should we accept?”

That question is based on an invalid and improvable assumption, that they all want to come here. Do they want a better life? Probably. Do they want to live free of fear and hunger? Probably. Do they ALL want to come here? Probably not. Do any of them want to come here? Perhaps a few.

Given a choice most people will accept the worst of the worse before they will embrace change. Only the adventurous, those running away from something, or those who have been persuaded by promises of income and opportunity, will consider coming. And then only if a guarantee is provided, like travel expenses and a sponsor.

Were that not true, human trafficking would never occur. Missionaries looking to grow the size of their church would never be able to bring “converts” here. Railroad moguls would never have been able to get thousands of Chinese laborers to come here. Pioneers and Pilgrims would never have taken that first terrifying step. And prospectors would never have rushed to the west. Since the beginning and throughout the history of this society, behind every brave soul who took the leap there lies a story that drove them to that decision. I"ll bet there is such a story behind the arrival of your ancestor in 1606.

But for the sake of argument, lets assume 4.5 Billion hungry people all want to come here.

So, how many should we accept? As many as the law will allow to come!

A law firmly in place that limits the number of immigrants. Screens them for disease, a criminal background and often requires a sponsor.

Space prevents posting the legalese governing the numbers, but the information can be found here:

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=9d296ed8d97f728392be9cc37bc47260

The problem is not immigrants. The problem is citizens who do not respect the law. The rich who want to play king and queen of the manor with a staff of obedient servants they can abuse and pay little or nothing. Business people who want guaranteed, hard-working labor that costs next to nothing. And a government hungry for cannon fodder.

Promised the world, illegals are trapped in a system that uses their illegal status as a club to keep them obedient. They come and when they can’t take it anymore, they run away, still trapped.

Somewhere in the mix are those who come to make trouble. But trouble makers and criminals are, and always will be, which is why we have law.

The promise of freedom and opportunity that brings so many here, brings mostly good people. Enforcement of law by knee-jerk reaction [typical of current administration] lumps the good and the bad together and everyone gets hurt.

And thanks to the hysteria of those who over-react, the rich and greedy go right on exploiting and the bad ones keep right on slipping in.

Why do you think Bush and the congress refuse to take a real stand on the issue? The illegals come and will continue to come as long as the law refuses to arrest and punish those [above] who engage in what is little more than human trafficking for cheap and/or slave labor.

Instead, they build walls. Like putting frosting on a rotten cake. When you cut it open it’s still rotten.

The refusal of the anti-immigrants to recognize the real culprits in this criminal enterprise guarantee nothing will change. Sooner or later the mind-set, “I’m here now and it’s mine, and nobody else can have it,” takes over. Making them willing servants for the rich and greedy who will keep on exploiting the law and the desperate, to gain slave labor.

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By Louise, October 30, 2007 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

#110306 by Conservative Yankee on 10/29 at 3:05 pm


“AND

I said I was white and harvested blueberries potatoes, and clams. Your post led me to believe “white Americans” wouldnÂ’t do this.”

*

Again, an invalid and improvable assumption. Why do you assume when someone’s talking about people working hard in the fields, they are talking only about the blacks? A little study and you might be surprised to discover some blacks are as up in arms about the “illegals” as you. Seeing it as a threat to their youth being able to keep un-skilled low paying jobs. Which in itself is an insult to the young blacks looking for opportunity.

There is nothing wrong with low paying un-skilled labor. We would all be in a shit-load of trouble if people weren’t willing to do that work. Likewise there is nothing wrong with seeing that work as a means to an end. I’m sure when you harvested blueberries, potatoes, and clams you weren’t planning on making that your life’s work. So we always need new people coming to pick up the slack.

But the fact remains, a lot of farmers across this nation have watched their crops rot in the field because those who traditionally have done the work, most of them traveling in and out of the country legally, are afraid to come. Because the dim-bulbs who see every Mexican as an illegal have driven the equally dim enforcers to target everyone.

Well, with a few exceptions, everyone except the rich and greedy.

The exceptions prove the rule.

I personally support and encourage immigration. The more the better.

Like the leader in the remote community of “cousins” tucked away in the hills. Trying to sell his farm he notes, “We need knew blood.”

The farm is bought and sold, and bought and sold again, and again, as the “new” folks realize the possibility that they might improve the community is far more remote than the possibility that their kids might be screwed up by the general state of ignorance and lack of enterprise.

Point being. One family cant keep the wheels of growth and change greased. It takes a massive influx.

But that’s another story.

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By Conservative Yankee, October 29, 2007 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

110254 by Louise on 10/29 at 8:16 am

You still didn’t answer the question. How many people should we allow to enter these United States? 

AND

I said I was white and harvested blueberries potatos, and clams. Your post led me to believe “white americans” wouldn’t do this.

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By Shenonymous, October 29, 2007 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

Are we supposed to genuflect to the revelation of truth, Borowski?  A clarification of the truth—illegal immigrants are holding these jobs.  There is plenty of room for ‘legalÂ’ immigrants.  Morally speaking, they should be able to have any job they can get since they are as American as anyone else.  You can heel all you want but IÂ’d bite the lily-white Republican dictatorÂ’s hand if stuck out there.

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By John Borowski, October 29, 2007 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Let me bless you with the truth. The decent paying jobs canÂ’t be competitive with the slave labor jobs in the Far East and elsewhere in this world. A company paying a livable wage in this country will surely go bankrupt competing with a foreign company using slave labor. The only solution for a company to be highly profitable and compete with foreign up rooted companies from the US is to move over seas to also feast on the slave labor. What then will the primarily white workers do to feed his family and keep a roof over their heads? They will have to go to the dead-end jobs with no future. They canÂ’t do that because the immigrants are already holding these jobs. The whites can have these type jobs because the Republicans (Aka Conservative right wing) will kick the ass of the immigrants out of this country. What if the whites rebel with this type of arrangement? We right wingers are now setting up a dictatorship in the US to make the recalcitrant whites heel.

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By Louise, October 29, 2007 at 8:16 am Link to this comment

#110119 by Conservative Yankee

“I doing a sample poll of the number of times self-identified “liberals” use Barry GoldwaterÂ’s “love it or leave” saying. Actually “loving it” is first finding it, “

*

I didn’t know Goldwater was responsible for that!
There ya go. Give a republican credit for something else.

Loving it IS finding it. Looking is the beginning of finding. And folks want the work they come looking for and can find here. Guess that could be called a form of love. Wanting to eat could be another. Freedom might be a third. Respect and human dignity. I think that’s what most love most.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

Uhh ... cancel that.

Glad you had the experience of living and working with some from other places. Glad you remember those experiences fondly. So, what happened to turn you against the others?

Sorry, I guess I missed your question about the worldÂ’s 4.5 Billion folks (who would like a better life) [and] should we accept [them] as citizens here?

Given our current reputation in the world I doubt 4.5 Billion folks want to come here. I doubt 4.5 Billion folks want to come here anyway.

People who want a better life, just want a better life! If that can happen where they are they’d rather stay where they are.

The majority of “illegal’s” who make it here are here not because they’d rather be here, but because they are escaping from something awful.

Or because that’s where the trafficker brought them.

Few will put their lives at risk to leave home and go somewhere else.

But in the event they all show up one day, I suspect they’ll all be put back out to sea. Our nature seems to be selective care and selective bigotry. Cubans fleeing from Castro, have been welcomed here for generations. Haitians on the other hand are turned back out to sea.

Some say we shouldn’t be responsible for improving the lot of those in other countries. A more valid statement is we shouldn’t be trying to remake the entire world in our self important image. We muck things up mightily everywhere we go.
And then there’s Palestine. The Palestinians don’t want to come here. They just want justice!

We understand justice real well. If it’s the right race, the right religion, the right terrorist supporting country, the right dictatorship, the right corporation, the right oligarchy, and the price is right.

People who demand justice rock the oligarchy boat. Oligarch’s love illegal’s! It’s called “human trafficking.” As in KBR [Halliburton] and 12 dead Nepalese in Iraq. As in “illegal’s” stuffed in a warehouse, brought here to “rebuild” New Orleans.

Who brought the first Chinese Immigrants here? And who really is bringing the “illegal’s” across the border every night?

*

“Now I live in Maine, and contrary to your bigoted point-of-view I happen to be white, “

*

I don’t recall saying you were black. If you’re glad your not, I’m glad your glad. Not that there’s anything wrong with being black. I think I was referring to conservatives who find fault with everything different, who maybe need to return to their roots and look for sameness. Or what drove their ancestors from their homes in the first place. I don’t care what color you are!

In spite of the great American conceit, the “others” really don’t want to be exactly like us. Being exactly alike is not only boring, it’s very republican.

Are your roots in New York? If so that would make you a native American. You therefore have the right to demand everybody else leave.

Good luck on that endeavor.

The emigration issue, is just one more politically expedient issue. Those who have to keep the people hysterically fighting over issues do it for only one reason. To keep us from noticing the awful stuff that really is hurting us!

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By ocjim, October 29, 2007 at 7:58 am Link to this comment

Eugene, I understand what you are saying but I think that Americans are finding it hard to be charitable toward anyone considering what is happening with our federal government leaders and how they are spending our money. Our leadership has helped to create this atmosphere, especially our feckless president. Our leaders have been epecially inhospitable to the middle class and the poor. Our needs are totally neglected in preference to the rich and Bush’s obscene war. Any complaints and suggestions by the majority are ignored. So does that leave us in a charitable moods. No one likes to be ignored. No one likes their money to be wasted and stolen.

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By Conservative Yankee, October 28, 2007 at 1:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

110096 by Louise on 10/28 at 10:01 am

“So how about it all you miserable right-wingers. If you hate everything and everybody here so bad, why donÂ’t you go back to where you came from?”

I doing a sample poll of the number of times self-identified “liberals” use Barry Goldwater’s “love it or leave” saying.

Actually “loving it” is first finding it, and it is my humble opinion that most people can’t do that with a guide dog and a map.

AND

as to your contention that “we conservatives” like to live among people who are a reflection of who we think we are, Well maybe. I was born in New York City (Brooklyn) I liked it there. L lived my early adulthood in Lawrence Massachusetts the people I worked with were Puerto Rican, Haitian, and French Canadian. We drank together, partied together, went to each others weddings, christenings, and funerals.

Now I live in Maine, and contrary to your bigoted point-of-view I happen to be white, and I have raked blueberries, dug clams, and harvested potatoes, often with immigrant workers. Nice people most of them.

BUT making policy on “feelings” isn’t a good practice, and you still have not answered me on my other post… How many of the world’s 4.5 Billion folks (who would like a better life) should we accept as citizens here?

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By Shenonymous, October 28, 2007 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

Maybe you donÂ’t care about ‘ourÂ’ fellow citizens proletariatprincess, but you are too ready to blame whatever on what you perceive as the ignorant and lazy.  Not exactly sure exactly who you mean?  The outside force talked about here are illegal immigrants that Mexico is joyful crosses its northern border.  All that much more for their bourgeoisie.  But our proletariat (working class, the not lazy or ignorant) has decided what kind of country it wants America to be, and perhaps Michael Moore ought to listen to them a bit, one where they donÂ’t have to compete with the illegal immigrant who will work for low wages, no health care, no social security, no pensions, and horrid living conditions.  Except mysteriously they somehow are able to send millions of dollars back to Mexico???  The smoke screen about illegal immigration is what is the hindrance for good immigration reform whereby more legal Mexicans, oh and how about others from other countries, such as those in Asia, eastern Europe, Africa, could find work in the USA and have decent remuneration and benefits.

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By Louise, October 28, 2007 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

#109961 by John C. Bonser on 10/27 at 11:10 am

“After all their self admiration and disdain for anything illegal, they need to be reminded that jaywalking is illegal. Where shall we send these law breakers!?”

***

Unfortunately it’s not illegal to be stupid. And even if it were allowances have to be made for the fact that narrow minded, uninformed people are victims too. Victims of a poor education, or victims of brain-washing in a “locked in time” society, or victims of their birth.

Or maybe they just drink too much beer.

Back when the blacks were fighting for their civil rights [Martin Luther King era, not to be confused with the previous, present and on-going fight for their civil rights] the so-called conservatives, to lazy to defend their prejudice , kept telling the blacks to go back where they came from. A pretty good indication of the level of comprehension available to some.

But as stupid as that was, it occurs to me maybe it needs to be said again. Only this time to the folks who call themselves “conservative”, claim to love this country and worry about the security of their future because of the dreaded “Illegals”. Obviously these folks don’t have a working knowledge of the real threat to this country, let alone the Constitution.

If what they see isn’t them, or at least the reflection of what they like to think they are, it’s wrong. If they weren’t such unpleasant trouble makers, they would be funny! Besides, their complete lack of original thought can get really boring! So boring, we could write their script. No brain-strain required.

So how about it all you miserable right-wingers. If you hate everything and everybody here so bad, why don’t you go back to where you came from? If in fact your knowledge of history stretches far enough back to KNOW where your ancestors came from.

You might have trouble fitting in, because most European countries are far more progressive than we are. Same is true for most countries in Asia. And even in Great Britton, where civil rights are under attack as much as here, the folks have a cavalier attitude toward the whacko’s who run their country. Maybe that’s the advantage of having royalty that has no power. At least it provides them with someone they can “identify” with.

Of course if your ancestors came from Israel, you might fit in a little better. But you might have to change your religion, assuming you have one. A small price to pay if you can find a group who shares your narrow view of the world.

Yep ... I think you’all need to go back where you came from.

Just think of the problems that would solve!
More room for everybody!
More work for everybody!

And the opportunity to figure out a way to help those folks who are willing to risk death or imprisonment, just to find WORK! Wow ... what a concept.

By the way, all across this country, farmers have watched their crops rot in the field because the “migrant workers” were afraid to show up since you’all decided they were the enemy. I suggest, since your ability to find work has been so seriously impacted by the “aliens” you relocate where those farmers would be thrilled to see you! Heaven knows they could use your help, ‘cause the “locals” aren’t interested. Not even for good pay.

Why? because it’s damn hard work!

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By Jim Parris, October 28, 2007 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

Oops - let me clarify:  I’m not for illegals becoming citizens, I’m for making Legal immigration easier - or at least more realistic economically.

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By Jim Parris, October 28, 2007 at 9:08 am Link to this comment

This, I feel, is a subject that even divides liberals.  I’m pretty dang liberal.  I support streamlining the immigration process.  I support adjusting fees on a sliding scale.  Did you know that there is no such thing as an “immigration visa?”  If you come to the US you must either be accepted to a university (paying upfront 4 times the local tuition) have an employer sponsor you (for which the employer must pay for a background check - $10k) and similar criteria that make sure that the only way to become a permanent resident (let alone a citizen, which is another debacle entirely) is to be independently wealthy by US standards, or be so qualified in your job that someone is willing to pay $10k to hire you.

That having been said, I’m not for brushing aside the law, I’m for improving it.  Make it possible for a poor Mexicans to become citizens and they will 1) make minimum wage, solving the wage stagnation problem, 2) pay taxes, solving the “we’re paying for their lives” problem and 3) not be such a temptation for businesses to smuggle in with false paperwork *cough*.. *Tyson*.. *cough*.

Of course, if we do that, we’ll see the rest of our blue-collar labor simply move to Mexico, thanks to NAFTA.

*sigh*

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By Shenonymous, October 28, 2007 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

The euphemism of “bunch of kids,” is a rhetorical device calculated to produce sympathy when why should teenagers from Mexico have any preference over teenage illegal aliens from any other country?  Another device is to claim something is irrational that does not quite conform to oneÂ’s own druthers.  It is not only Republicans who finds anathema instruments like the Dream Act but hard working Democratic Americans who donÂ’t want to just give away their country.  It is Mexico that should provide college education to these ‘kids.Â’  What Robinson is proposing is absolute BS and just another insidious way to bend to Mexican vulturism and Joe Biden has it right about Mexico.  It is the give-away show to 1 million young people that seems to be insane and un-American, and that is my druthers.  Those are 1 million votes for Mexico in the not too distant future.  Reformed legal immigration laws are in order and will show how hopeful and generous a nation the US is.  Then real debate can reveal exactly how this country feels.

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By rowman, October 28, 2007 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

Ooops. Author forgot the disclaimerÂ… let me help. Save the flames, I am not reading them.

//Disclaimer//
This article has been paid for and planted by the Democrat Party. The Democrat Party Dynasty has survived over 200 years due to our ability to control media outlets so as to manipulate the American people with propaganda that deters those from the real issues so we can further wasteful spending, increase dependency on our party and thus, increase our power over you.

We realize that this article lacks substance and may contain a lie or two and well, perhaps a few but we know that if we repeat it enough you just might start believing it. Should you choose to point any of this out, our cronies are at the ready and will descend upon you with all fury. We own the media and will abuse it by all means within our power. Should our media whores be unable to silence you, we have no problem abusing our congressional power to attack private citizens.

We do this for your own good because you and we know that you are incapable of making rational decisions so we will make them for you. We know what is best for you and what is best for us. They may be different standards but you will not object because we own you too. Let me remind you of our goal to increase taxes to a point that you must come to us for your basic survival and you can do nothing about it. Just remember, itÂ’s for your own good, you forced us to do this and hurts us more than it hurts you.

Finally, whenever a different party is, god forbid, president, our job is to attack them. Keeping up with all the slander, lies and deceit is a full time job and we are forced to put the country business aside. ItÂ’s ok though because we say so. We will launch endless campaigns to turn countryman against countryman and to divide citizens over meaningless issues. We will even use our media to manipulate other countries and their citizens that the United States is bad. We do this because a president from another party has the power of VETO and this is a very bad and evil thing. Sometimes, itÂ’s powerful enough to stop our corrupt programs so no matter the cost, we will unleash our fury upon them.
\\Disclaimer\\

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By Bert, October 28, 2007 at 12:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I tell you what I’d like to see, I’d like to see
two things, for starters:
1) A balanced budget. Once they get to the end
of this year’s tax reciepts, the automatic
response on spending becomes ‘no’. For
decades, there’s been no real pressure
to contain federal spending, and the result
has been embarassing and in some cases catastrophic,
no oversight, no restrictions, it’s as if Angela
Lansbury herself were signing spending bills, ‘imagine no limits’, and as we watch, the
dollar, our common currency-in-trade across the
country, falls, falls, falls. Coincidence? No,
I don’t think so. Remember the italian Lire?
They printed money like it was going out of
style, and finally, it did. We should avoid the
same fate, if at all humanly possible, which is
why I think there should be a return to the
Balanced Budget Amendment. Fiduciary responsibility
is part and parcel to what Congress is supposed
to be doing for the country, and that oversight
has been conspicuously absent these last 6 years.
For reference, one example, look up the company
that was selling body armor, 200 million or whatever
embezzled, and that’s just for appetizers, then
they’re saying that the State Dept. can’t account
for a full billion, and there’s probably countless
more examples. At some point, someone needs to
put a stop to the looting of our federal Treasury.


2) A bona-fide border with Mexico. Mexico is a
foreign country, yes, they have problems, but it’s
also THEIR responsibility to stand up unified as a
country and start solving them. I think we get
sold a LOT of sunshine stories regarding Mexico,
and the best way we can really help them is probably
to provide them the opportunity to effectively
apply that 1 trillion dollar or so GDP in such a
way that it’ll do some good. If the knee-jerk
response on any Mexico issue is ‘give em a free
pass’, what incentive is there for any real reforms?
Cry loud enough, and the USA will come and give out 10 billion dollars on your behalf so you don’t
have to take issue with your own social problems?
And, there’s the crime issue, I really think that
having a strong border with Mexico would help cut
down on crime in BOTH countries.

3)and final, someone needs to stand up and talk
about the entitlement mentality. The reason that
Asia is going to end up running the rest of the
planet is that there’s a lot of people that left
that work ethic in their other pants. How far
can you get along without someone being willing
to do the dirty work? But, it’s pretty prevalent
in some circles, we can’t all live off investment
incomes, and it’s time for a return to honesty.
No work=no pay, and if you don’t like it, too bad.
Enough with the giveaways and the raw pork, if we
don’t get real pretty soon, we’ll wish that we had.

Oh, and how, exactly, is Our Great Nation being
molested by bands of islamic terrorists?

Frankly, sir, I think you’re full of it, on more
than one issue. Nothing personal, but go back
and re-read THAT baby. Then, imagine for a moment
that YOU were in charge of writing national
policy. There’s 103 million people left in Mexico,
probably 102 as of this writing, ready for some
new neighbors? You won’t mind that tax increase
then, to help cover the school thing? They need
to build that new ESL school next to your house,
will you sign off on the zoning ordinance change?
You DO speak spanish, right? Wanna learn?
You don’t mind the welfare office going in next
to that, do you, and the new jail? Spending is good,
right? Better your wallet than mine…oh, that changes the calculus, does it? Wait, wait, Representative Robinson, what about that new crime spending bill, 40 billion, it’s not TOO much, is it? 39? Wait! Come back! 38! 37! You can’t say no NOW,
can you? 36, final offer!

I conclude my example, can you kind of see what
kind of ugliness can get built in Washington without
at least periodically consulting with the consumers,
nee voters? One can only hope…

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By GW=MCHammered, October 27, 2007 at 10:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most Americans suffered the same BS in their work for decades… incompetent management throwing away hundreds even thousands of competent workers’ effort then running off with the goods. Now that same bungling mismanagement is atop government.

Disinvest in DuhMerika until it’s America again. And you can’t trust either Electoral Dysfunctating Party. Unless they’re preaching tar-and-feathered from stockades. Vote ‘em all out in ‘08.

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By Shenonymous, October 27, 2007 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

Yes Mexico is so tame that it shoots immigrants stealing across their southern border and asks questions later.  They donÂ’t mind sending their illegal itinerant north to the US, and by the way, to Canada too, but they freak when illegals assault their own border.

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By Douglas Chalmers, October 27, 2007 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

“...is America still a confident land of hope and promise, a place still potent with possibility…?”

Actually, the pioneering spirit and the “can do” approach went West, far far West, all the way to China, decades ago. Meeting Chinese mainlanders, the educated ones and especially from the North gives you that impression.

They are going forwards - the USA has lost it. The main difference now is that America is still a fools’ paradise economically while China is heading for an ecological disaster as the world’s factory.

But “male menopause” means that the GOP are beecoming a bunch of old women (to use their own derogatory language). Change is not possible for them because they are so thoroughly into refusal and denial. All that these grinding old sperm compressors are capable of is finally croaking it.

The reason they all feel “under siege” is their own dwindling production of ‘male’ hormones. Conversely, they have a virtual rising level of ‘female’ hormones and that, more than anything else, frightens them, uhh.

What’s the bet, then, that the “illegal immigration scourge” will be sequestered into an army draft next year for those “open-ended wars” they feel so compelled to start? But I notice you are still jerking on the “dangerous bands of Islamic terrorists”,  Eugene Robinson.

Have you really seen any lately or are you merely confusing them with the Mexican hordes of itinerant workers the US needs? And wake up to the fact that China has 14 countries on its borders including Russia and India as well as Taiwan and Japan off the coast. Can you imagine how much more psychotic Americans would become if they actually had more than a tame Mexico and Canada to contend with???

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By John C. Bonser, October 27, 2007 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

voice of truth -
come clean - you are rather loose with fact and truth. No source cited either - just dishonest opinion!

Amnesty? As Jane Bryany Quinn says in “Newsweek”:

Does it cover illegal aliens? No. although this is the wing nuts’ nastiest slur. SCHIP doesn’t even cover legal immigrants until they’ve been here for at least five years.”

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By Shenonymous, October 27, 2007 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

The fact that part of the United States was once part of Mexico is history; the newer fact is that it hasnÂ’t been since the Mexican-American War.  Another fact is that Mexico inherited from their war of independence with Spain much territory that is today part of the United States that includes Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and a great deal of California.  The whining and moaning that constantly goes on about how lands across the border was once Mexican is moot to say the least.  The whiners and moaners ought to get over it.  Americans know how much Mexico would love to retrieve American lands back into Mexico.  Americans also know how poor the Mexican government keeps their people just so they have to immigrate illegally to the United States to make a living.  Americans know that is one deceptive way Mexico gets a part of America and lots of its money.  Illegal immigration, is one of the political pustules of Mexico and is a horrid travesty it does to its people.  The system and the people responsible for the illegal immigration problem in America is the Mexican government.  They are the ones making scapegoats out of their own poor people.  And greedy American farmers and corporations are the evil partners in this deception.

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By PJ, October 27, 2007 at 11:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Conservative Yankee—Right on! The unions were only interested in the right things very early on and have been corrupt for most of their history. As far as the left is concerned, they never gave any thought to the feelings or welfare of others. They are the ultimate in selfishness. Look what they have done to the black population in our country. It is the same plan they have for the hispanics. Just like they smear and attack blacks who suceed without their liberal programs they will smear and attack independant hispanics also. It’s all about votes not caring, love or compassion for their fellow human beings.

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By John C. Bonser, October 27, 2007 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

Way to go Louise!

It is time someone talks back to these self righteous folk who are under the illusion that they did it all by themselves.

After all their self admiration and disdain for anything illegal, they need to be reminded that jaywalking is illegal. Where shall we send these law breakers!?

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By Louise, October 27, 2007 at 8:45 am Link to this comment

#109826 by blueshift

“Conservative Yankee, I am a Yankee too - a real one, with mayflower heritage, and family members on Lexington Green in 1775. And my forebears did not fight and die so you could hoard rights, and deny them to others. Such mean spirited, legalistic thinking, with a two-tier society, is exactly the burden we threw off in 1775. You are a false patriot, and your values are un-American. (Of course, you probably support George III, so you are indeed a Tory.)”

blueshift, Hip Hip Hooray!

Good to know there’s still a few around who pay attention to their heritage.

Mean spirited means:
Having or characterized by a malicious or petty spirit.

Malicious means:
Having the nature of or resulting from malice, Wishing or appearing to wish evil to others; arising from intense ill will or hatred.

Petty means:
Of small importance, trivial. Marked by narrowness of mind, ideas, or views.

Spirit means:
The vital principle or animating force within living things.

And Mean [in this context] means:
Pettiness and small-mindedness: to take advantage: coarseness and vulgarity: selfish cowardice.

Glad to help voice of truth , anytime.

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By Leefeller, October 27, 2007 at 4:48 am Link to this comment

Almost like swiftboating, so we focus on the illegal issue to take the heat off the warmongers in the Whitehouse.  If the rule of law was not abused so well by our leaders, we could enforce the word illegal and do something to make it legal, but keeping the crap on the stove works so well as part of the smoke and mirrors.

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By Conservative Yankee, October 27, 2007 at 4:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

109826 by blueshift on 10/26 at 5:19 pm

“Conservative Yankee, I am a Yankee too - a real one”

“You are a false patriot, and your values are un-American.”

No, like it or not, MOST “real” US citizens put the well-being of their families and friends ABOVE the well-being of unknown foreigners who ignore our laws, and contribute to the stagnation of middle and lower class wages.

My family comes from Germany (to escape the genocide) Holland, England, and Canada.  They came for many reasons, BUT they all went through the long process of obtaining LEGAL citizenship (except Thomas Snyder who landed where Philadelphia is now in 1606.) Most of the family were Quakers, so they probably didn’t fight at Lexington, but we sure-as-hell-were not royalists.

There are (at last count of famine watch) 4.5 Billion people who would like to relocate to greener climes. How many of these folks should we accept?  Should we screen them for disease? should we look to find if they have a valid criminal record of murder, rape or abduction? should we allow violent south American gang members?

Go ahead insult me… avoid the serious questions. 

You say you are a Yankee… Heat with Oil do you?

Hope you have a good secure job this winter!

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By Sunder, October 27, 2007 at 3:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If the “Dream Act” truly included no requirement for proof, and offered legal status to the students’ family members, then it was in fact just an amnesty. I defer to no one with regard to my liberal credentials, or to my citizen credentials for that matter (I still live where many of my ancestors were living 5,000 years ago—it’s now called Georgia). But illegal immigration, from Mexico in specific, hurts the citizens of Mexico and the citizens of the US. The winners are US corporations, which use illegals to drive down wages, and the Mexican government, which encourages illegal immigration to the US in order to get rid of the motivated, family-oriented folks who could turn into political troublemakers. As long as illegal immigrants are sending money home, their families are surviving, in spite of various regressive government policies. The US isn’t the only country with a criminally exploitative government.

That said, it is unlikely the Repubs were concerned with any of the above. One of the party’s underlying principles has always been to exact retribution from children for wrongs committed by their parents. Look at the various Draconian public assistance “reforms” that even the Clinton administration thought were too harsh, and the further “reforms” being pushed by Repubs today (while they hand out welfare to corporations).

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By Sally A. Bridges, October 27, 2007 at 1:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What are some of you people thinking??  I am not, I repeat—NOT, a Republican, but why is there such ignorance about the LAW?  Illegal means that allowing illegal immigration is a crime!  I do feel for the children the of parents who brought them here, without any ability to choose their own fate.  I even understand why someone, living in a country that has its great wealth in the hands of a few but has no chance to get any of their own, enters another country, even illegally, that offers a better life.  This is unfortunate, but even the U.S. can’t be all things to all people.  Citizens come first.  The United States has become great because it is a country of laws.  Those of us who want these laws and this Constitution to stand are worried about the easy way we have allowed big business to exploit cheap and illegal labor just to enrich those who are already rich.  We are tired of not having any power to stop these exploiters and the government that is hell-bent on giving away our sovereignty.  If you want a one-world government where the powerful and wealthy corporate elites reign, then you will be happy to note that, unchecked, it is well on its way, and Bush and others are helping to drive the vehicle onward.  We must draw the line, now, and stop being apathetic about what is going on under our very noses.  As was stated in an earlier comment, there is more to this piece of legislation than simply helping these unfortunate children of the illegals.  It seems that many of us do not really understand what is at stake.  Our economy is suffering already, due to outsourcing of jobs, and now we should open our arms to allow those who are not legal in this country and hand over the jobs that are remaining?  Please understand the corporate giants and the politicians are only interested in their short-term goals of making money and getting reelected.  They care little about the rest of us.  There is little difference between the two parties, only the means to their ends differ somewhat.  It’s time for each American to begin to really think hard about what is really going on and try to care enough to become more informed and not just follow the party line.

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By DennisD, October 26, 2007 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I guess Eugene would have the dictionary rewritten to change the meaning of illegal. Somehow “undocumented” isn’t one of the definitions in mine although it sure sounds a lot better to the unprincipled ear.

The “Dream Act” is what every hard working American is doing if he or she still believes they have any control of their own country.

Let the illegals go back to where they came from and improve their own country’s standard of living rather than destroy ours. They’re corporate tools and nothing more, to be used and then discarded when they’ve been used up.
For the bleeding hearts who are fat, dumb and happy and not threatened by an illegal taking their job.
Your children may not be so lucky, so be damn careful what you wish for.

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By voice of truth, October 26, 2007 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

mean-spirited.  What the f**k is that anyway?  I work my ass off and want to keep some of it, so I am mean-spirited?  And want 2-tier society?  Moron.

What we want is for all of us to work hard and be successful.  Is that too much to ask?  What the hell is mean-spirited anyway?  What a ridiculous concept.  Didn’t calling people mean cease to become a valid retort after 2nd grade?

The founders of this country, wether they were in your family or not, would have cringed at our current welfare state.

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By blueshift, October 26, 2007 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment

Conservative Yankee, I am a Yankee too - a real one, with mayflower heritage, and family members on Lexington Green in 1775. And my forebears did not fight and die so you could hoard rights, and deny them to others. Such mean spirited, legalistic thinking, with a two-tier society, is exactly the burden we threw off in 1775. You are a false patriot, and your values are un-American. (Of course, you probably support George III, so you are indeed a Tory.)

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By John Hall, October 26, 2007 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey, Conservative Yankee…is it OK to you for those same illegals who are working to pay taxes in this country yet not have at least the opportunity to become citizens? They would have to attend college or serve in the military to make restitution. Maybe even paying a fine could be considered.
Besides that, some who came here illegally were brought here by their parents when they were children. What choice did they have?
The sooner these citizens are made legal, the smaller the pool of illegals companies can use as barely-paid wage slaves.

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By Conservative Yankee, October 26, 2007 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Eugene, what part of “illegal” do you not understand.  I have no idea WHY it was the Republicans who shut down this corporate scam to get as many low wage workers into the US as they can.  I don’t see why the left and the unions who used to care about poor CITIZENS are now willing to sell them out.  I don’t know why no one who calls us folks (who want a decent living wage for middle class workers) RACIST/Zenophobic/ anti immigrant ever mentions Caesar Chavez who armed his United Farm Workers and posted them on the border to stop illegal SCABS from taking jobs, and lowering wages.

So rant away. I’m not changing my mind… I know what working in a shit environment for $1.60 an hour feels like. How much do you make a year EUGENE?

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By rodney, October 26, 2007 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republicans have always used fear,hate,gay bashing,race and bigotry to win elections. From Richard Nixon to Ronald Racist to both of the Bush boys. The southern black and minority Jim crow stratergy has won them many elections. So while the Republicans accuse the Democrats of playing the race card, the Republicans continue to play the racist card.

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By voice of truth, October 26, 2007 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

“Protecting your civil and constitutional rights, protecting your environment or protecting the food you eat; which of those three would you rather the Left not have done for you?”

You left out protecting my wallet.  I really wish the left hadn’t done that for me.

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By hazmaq, October 26, 2007 at 9:42 am Link to this comment

Eugene, we greatly appreciate the WashPo maintaining a great group of responsible journalists like you.

Here’s a related topic I wish you’d look into: Brian Lamb’s hard right slant to C-span’s programming.  I have yet in the past month to see one Democratic think tank event, one Democratic forum in C-span’s line-up on C-1 or C-2.
But I have seen every Heritage and AEI event in their entirety, repeated two and three times a day. When Congressional activities are done, and sometimes between quorum calls, Lamb continually interjects bits of hard speech relative to either the Presidents daily scourge du jour or the Republican leadership’s scourge du jour.
He’s becoming more and more blantantly obvious about his bias too: bringing on Michelle Malkin on a few years back with her new book slamming Democrats as un-patriotic. Lamb never played devils’ advocate in the interview, instead just coaxed her on all through the interview. 
While that represents a typical media interview, what made this one different was Lamb’s timing -  something he has fine-tuned into a formidable weapon.
He chose to bring her on, on Memorial Day.  In a time of war.

Democratic events, if aired at all,  get bits and pieces of their events broken up over several days and at unscheduled times- and are usually aired on C-span 3.

Is it really a public service cable provides when it’s given in the ‘fair and balanced’ style of Fox?

Rupert and Brian are different only in one way -Lamb doesn’t have to answer to anyone.

(For research purposes, I note that the written schedule posted online are almost always incorrect - not shown are the shorter interjected videos or substitutions, nor does the list match programs actually aired.

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By hazmaq, October 26, 2007 at 9:06 am Link to this comment

Your ‘scourge du jour’ hits their tactic squarely. 
Other than taxes, what do you need a Republican for?
They’re just parasites that need to stand behind a woman’s vagina or a Marine’s rifle or a preacher to get any one to give a shit about what they have to say.

Protecting your civil and constitutional rights, protecting your environment or protecting the food you eat; which of those three would you rather the Left not have done for you?

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By voice of truth, October 26, 2007 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

This article does not tell the whole story.  Other provisions of the bill:

-There was no proof required to be submitted with any claim.

-Any and all family members of these people would also be given legal status, again, with no proof of claim.

-This threshold for legal residency is actually easier than for a person going through the legitimate immigration channel.

This is nothing but an Amnesty Bill.  And please tell me what is wrong with rewarding and ignoring illegal behaviour?  Illegal immigrants are an incredible drain on our society and economy.  I stress the word illegal, as this is not an immigrant bash.

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By proletariatprincess, October 26, 2007 at 7:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Im sorry to say, I think you are wrong, Mr Robinson.  I do think the nation is ready for handfuls of Lavitra.  We really don’t care much about our fellow citizens at all and we are too easily mislead thru ignorance and laziness and always ready to blame anything that we dont like in this country on some outside force or “other”.
I remember Michael Moore saying that we need to decide what kind of country we want to be…one that cares about the “we” or one that cares only about the “me”.  Unfortunately, I believe that question was answered years ago, and the answer is the latter.  It is no wonder that the most highly prescribed drugs in america are antidepressants.  It is hard to look yourself honestly in the face and not like what you have become.

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By John C. Bonser, October 26, 2007 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

The immigrant is the new scapegoat. They look different, talk different, why they are different. They are used to scare us.

In Sarasota, Florida some super-patriots burned down the home of a Muslim family. They had escaped the horrors of Bosnia to come to the “land of the free and the home of the brave.” Great Americans we are!

Maybe we can burn out the Mexicans next.

It is time for the real patriots to step forward, reach out, and speak up.

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By Leefeller, October 26, 2007 at 5:59 am Link to this comment

Hypocrisy has been a staple of religion and politics since the beginning of both.  Even here in my community, our local politics seems affected.  Accountability absent, the fox running the chicken house will never be positive except for the fox and friends agendas. Blame and lies are always nice options to truth for those who would hide truth at any cost.

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By rodney, October 26, 2007 at 3:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republicans have been winning elections through fear hate,bigotry and race for many years. From Ronald Racist to Richard Nixon to both George Bushes, they have divided this nation as if the civil war was still bring fought. So while they accuse the Democrats of playing the race card,the Republicans are still busy playing the racist card.

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By lodipete, October 26, 2007 at 3:00 am Link to this comment

A mean crabby nation beating up on immigrants? Guess Gino didn’t read about the indictment of the F13 gangbangers out LA way. Seems they were practicing ethnic cleansing in Florence by targeting and murdering blacks. 61 RICO indictments so far. They sure were “hard working”.

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By cyrena, October 26, 2007 at 2:09 am Link to this comment

#109646 by thomas billis

Ditto Thomas!!

And for Mr. Robinson, this is an excellent piece, (although I do have one objection). But first, this part is important:

•  Undocumented immigrants are convenient scapegoats for perceived American decline, convenient targets for the unfocused anger that Republicans seem to believe their constituents feel—the sense that “they,” whoever they might be, are taking something away from “us.”

This is a ‘created’ perception, because contrary to your suggestion that our nation is NOT in decline, the fact of the matter is that…IT IS!! Our infrastructure is broken, our educational system is broken, our health care system is broken, and I could go on. Too many, (far too many) Americans are out of work, and living at or beneath the poverty level. And, I’m talking about millions of Americans, who have been here since the Euros first genocided the Native population.

And…rather than blame the system and the people RESPONSIBLE for this decline, the immigrants (from MEXICO, not any other nation, including Canada) have provided the very convenient ‘scapegoat’ for the average person. Let’s just blame it all on THEM, even though they would have no REASON to immigrate to this country, had not our ‘corporate sponsors” not taken over their own. (I mean REALLY, why the hell would anybody leave THERE, to come HERE, if our corporate ‘free trade/imperialistic practices had not left them destitute?) It’s not like they haven’t lived on this Continent far longer than the rest of us have.

So, they’ve become extremely beneficial scapegoats…Gotta blame somebody, right? And, lets face it, in this country, since long before the American revolution, or even the Declaration of Independence, the scapegoats have ALWAYS been people of color. It’s just that simple. And this is the mentality that the repugs have passed along for centuries…blame ‘them’, not ‘your own’ or yourself.

Meantime, I have to disagree with this, and I hope that you’ll ‘investigate’ it, a bit further.

•  With the exception of Ron Paul, every one of them agrees that America is under siege, molested not only by dangerous bands of Islamic terrorists—which is true—

This is only partial ‘true’ and Ron Paul has it wrong. America IS ‘under siege” but not from a dangerous band of Islamic terrorists, and we just need to quit spreading that stupid stuff. It’s patently WRONG. It’s a FALSEHOOD, a LIE, that the repugs have been recycling for so long, that everyone, (apparently including YOU – Eugene) have bought into.

But, there is NO DOUBT that American and Americans, are under siege. hijacked by a Cabal of treasonous criminals, nearly seven years ago. TheyÂ’ve taken over our country, our government, and used our Constitution as toilet paper.

So, when WE finally figure out who the REAL enemy is here, we might be able to get our country back, and then we can begin to utilize our natural resources, (which are ALL of US – the PEOPLE- including those that have crossed the border into the land that was once theirs to begin with) to the betterment of our entire nation.

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By thomas billis, October 25, 2007 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

These religious people are tough.Somebody has got to send me a copy of the bible these people read.I guess it is the St Satans version.I will not go into the” know nothings party"another group early in our history up in arms about immigration.This anti illegality stance from the Republicans does not seem to extend to perjury and obstruction of justice by Scooter Libby.Felonies all.The truth of the matter is that we are getting way the better of the deal with Mexico.We are getting their best people.Republicans for political gains are looking a gift horse in the mouth.With S Chip I thought only the democrats could be that stupid.The democrats are on a roll doing absolutely nothing and just supplying the rope they are watching the republicans hang themselves.Now the Democrats can get back to something serious the Armenian genocide.

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