110112 Hey Inherit check this out!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/genera_michael__071 030_questioning_9_2f11_and.htm

You know Al Gore is a smart gut. He knows who he is and cares little about those who portray him for something that he’s not. There are those who follow him around and search for weaknesses and when they can’t find any they invent them. Yet Al continues to be Al, Nobel prize and all.

The neocons have tried to smear him because he lives in an old house which is not energy efficient and point to Bush’s Crawford ranch which was recently and modernly built with all the energy efficient amenities. They’ve tried to call him a liar concerning the greenhouse affect and have even hired scientists to deny its existence. And after all of that, they now have to admit the truth, stall though they will to no avail.

As for Al, he’s still the same guy, plugging away for the facts, dispelling the fantasies and doing what he has to get out the word. God bless you Al! You’re a man after my own heart!

Part 1 of 2 to #109272 by Ernest Canning
Ernest,
Your efforts are appreciated. In all honesty though, you’d have to go back and examine the actual thread that MS is referring to, in order to see where this is pretty much irrelevant. It’s pretty typical of neurotic people.

My own ‘emotional’ response to his stuff is standard and very basic. It boils down to what I said in the earlier post…NOBODY wants to be lied on. If I accuse you of something that you simply have not done, and do it on a live board such as this, or in the main stream media, or in any forum where it amounts to slander, then your reaction would be the same, although it might be more ‘measured’. (actually, my OWN responses to him were ‘measured’ for quite some time).

If you were to read back through even a portion of the posts that got MS in such a ‘state’, you’d be able to see the ‘trajectory” of the neurosis. MS has designated me as being “in lockstep’ with the opinions of others, and that’s a lie. Even in his most recent post, he’s claimed that I have ‘sided’ with others. That too is a lie. I do my own analysis of ANYTHING, based on obvious facts and their relevance, along with what may appear as ‘secondary’ or ‘circumstantial’ type evidence.

The underlying ‘problem’ for MS, (among several) was what he felt was an attack upon him, by an entirely different poster. (FTF) In short, MY DOG wasn’t IN that fight. And, I have to admit that FTF did sort of go at him, to the extent that even I asked him to sort of ‘lay-off’, because it became clear to me that MS was working himself into a real meltdown.
A large number of the posts on that particular thread involved MS trying to ‘sway me’, to a particular set of opinions which I didn’t agree with, but most importantly, HAD NO BEARING on the topic at hand. And yes, I realize that all of these threads will veer off-topic to a greater or lesser extent, and that is to be expected. However, in this case, it had devolved into some sandbox-type pissing contest, and when he (MS) could no longer hold his own against FTF, he decided to drag ME into it. It also devolved into what I can only describe as some personal ‘group therapy” for MS, and his ‘ethnicity issues’.

So, I did in fact lose my patience (eventually) and explained to MS, that this forum simply WAS NOT about HIM, or his Jewish identity. And, it STILL isn’t. Him being ½, ¼, blah blah Jewish, simply has nothing to do with the body politic, or the events of 9/11. Hell, for all I know, my OWN paternal grandma may have been part Jewish. (she certainly” looked” the part, though she was ‘designated’ as ‘colored’.) Or, maybe mulatto was a more appropriate term at the time. Who knows? Back then, and in that part of the country, one was Negro/Black/Colored if they had a single drop of ‘black blood’. (or was it 1/16th?) Same with my stepfather and my half-sister. One might look at either of them, and assume the same. My point though, is that I really don’t see it as having any bearing on the topic that was at hand.

Anyway, that’s what the whole thing crashed into; a diatribe on Mr. Shaw’s questionable ethnicity, since earlier posts suggest a ‘variety’ of genetic trails. Here again, I didn’t think it much mattered to the discussion of the events of 9/11. Besides, there are MULTIPLE forums and organizations where MS could address all of these very personal neuroses, and with overwhelming support; one of the many 12-step programs comes to mind. But, that’s not going to happen. And, for anyone who’s paid attention to his ‘pattern’ we see that it won’t. In short, no matter WHAT the topic of the thread may be about, sooner or later, we all get to hear about his ethnic identity issues, and then about the politics of Israel, and on, and on. Most of us can put up with that, at least for a time. (and he generally stays with only ONE thread, until he gets pissed off, or somebody exposes him, and then picks another, with a potentially different audience and it starts over).
TBC

Part 2 of 2 reply to 109272

However, like nearly anyone else, I don’t take kindly to being lied on or otherwise slandered. I’m hardly ‘shy’ about speaking up for myself, (and I’m sure it’s the same with anyone of any sort of integrity) so I take full responsibility for my own opinions, and I make them based on what I believe to be sound and careful evaluation. I also gain much from constructive criticism when provided in relative context. BUT, I can also tell when any subject has separated from a group discussion, to a personal ‘therapy’ session. And if it turns into an unwarranted attack ON ME, or an inaccurate and erroneous distortion of what I’ve actually said myself, there’s no doubt that I will respond to set a record straight.

It goes without saying that I’m hardly a ‘racist’. It should also go without saying that I can spot a racist when I see or hear one. Like I said, I’ve been interacting with greater humanity for many, many years. Maybe more importantly, my upbringing and my long term employment have provided a very diverse environment, so I’ve never had any reason or occasion to develop biases, based on class, ethnicity or national origin. I see people and situations individually, based on the appropriate context and so it stands to reason, that I abhor a ‘group think’ mentality that forms based on disinformation or distorted nuance.

So, contrary to what MS might have you believe, these ‘disagreements’ have little or nothing to do with ‘politics’ or political insights. In fact, we have actually agreed on a few undeniable facts. Rather, this disagreement came about as a result of his personal neurosis, and the fact that he just couldn’t let it go. He waited and stewed for a while, only to re-appear on this particular thread, and then claim to “hate to have to bring this up”. Matter of fact, he said he was ‘forced to admit’ his Jewishisness. Seriously, how has anybody FORCED him to ‘admit’ this? Is there some sort of ‘torture’ mechanism that we can administer over the internet? And why does he consider it an ‘admission’ instead of a simple fact? (if it really is) And here again, WHY should anybody CARE? Is my own Native/African-American ethnicity at all important to the events of 9/11? Not only that; but my own personal and professional relationships with Jewish people in general, have been overwhelmingly positive. I’m surrounded by BRILLIANT Jews!!! (at least now I am) and I love to argue with them, because I learn so much from them.

So, that’s why MS is just so totally out of the box. If he has the occasional logical point, it all just gets lost in the bullshit of his personal demons, and he’ll drag anybody he can into the ‘drama’. (like he’s done here with you). Reminds me of my all-girls Catholic High School, and those aren’t particularly good memories. When we dig back through the entire ‘he-said, she-said, they-said, we-said’ BS, it often comes down to -nothing said-. (at least nothing that has anything to do with the topic at hand). That’s how and why FTF was able to get him so worked up. MS made his mistake by dragging me into it, and that’s where the ‘disagreements’ came up.
Still, I’ve retracted my intent to kick his ass. At some point, he’ll do that to himself. Kinda like giving anyone enough rope to hang themselves.

Meantime, I admit to losing sleep over a lot of things in this new 21st Century; MS just isn’t one of them. I’ve got a ‘built-in’ intuitive filter. The majority of the time, it works pretty well. And, these are the kinds of times when we need that more than anything, just to separate the irrelevant form the important issues.

Thanks again for your efforts. It must be the ‘attorney in you’.

109392 Interesting analogy MAR and hail to all of Canada!

Though it is true that most of Gore’s popularity stems from his work with the environment, I see him as a well rounded, diplomatic, world conscious individual who would actually listen to the people around him, be they democrat or republican. Part of what stems in being a great leader is the ability to listen, even to those you might not agree with before you make critical decisions. I believe Gore has this ability, unlike the guy in there now.

109324

LOL! Hey MAR, that’s a big ball of yarn coming from a non registered poster who has only made one comment thus far. But you’re right, the conversation is about Gore. Believe me, I’m praying to stay on Gore and had always intended to.

Had Gore won in 2000, there is no doubt in my mind things would have been a whole lot different and for the better. At least on an international scale, there would have been some form of actual negotiation, rather than a breeze of ultimatums laced in fabricated intelligence and outright lies to serve one narrow agenda. Here is an example of what we face today.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102407B.shtml

I believe if Gore ran he’d win in a landslide. Unfortunately I don’t believe he will run and all the big money is backing Hilary Clinton. Personally I like Dennis Kucinich because he isn’t bought and paid for by multinational corporations. That said, I also like Al Gore and if he is nominated he will get my vote as he did in 2000. As you say, sober and rational. That’s not something we’ve seen in government for a long, long time.

109277

Ernest I appreciate your olive branch approached but alas it is futile. I’ve tried that myself in that last horrible dig to no avail. That last dig concerned Questioning 9/11(with caution). In my quest to contribute and because some of the statements being made in there that didn’t seem accurate, I wanted to examine where this information was coming from before I took it at face value (as Cyrena did). The fact that certain elements of the 9/11 movement(not the entire movement) had ties to neo-Nazies and racists, and thanks to the very sources of my protagonists(who in some cases wanted to count the hairs on my ass), I found this to be accurate. Even after showing Cyrena this relevant information she still chose to side with these people along with their ties to white racists and Nazi’s, even though all the while Inherit and myself were being attacked, simply because of our Jewish heritage. All we were doing was showing a whole lot of the information they were spewing came from neo-Nazi websites and in fact several of the authors they quoted even went to an event where one of the guest speakers built a memorial to Adolf Hitler! That was when this suddenly became a racist issue.

To search for truth one must be willing to investigate all of its aspects before drawing conclusions. Is not seeking to discover who is behind the 9/11 for truth movement relevant, especially when some of their information comes from dubious sources? That was all I was doing. Investigating! That and making my findings available. I never turned this into a poor “Jewish” me scenario once(especially since I am not Jewish). 

I do not intend to comment about this further, but as far as I’m concerned Cyrena and I are through. Though at times she comes off as reasonable, she is not. In fact I have discovered she can be downright unreasonable and would rather believe the lies of some KKK nut than see the facts for what they truly are. I don’t believe she is a neo-Nazi or a racist herself, but in that last dig that was exactly who she was siding with(whether she knows it or not).

Michael Shaw and Cyrena:  Any chance of my placing an olive branch between two posters I admire?  In politics there are often subject matter that are quite touchy and can trigger emotionalism.  I think both of you have conflicting insights that would benefit one another.  There is no reason why, whatever your disagreements have been, the two of you cannot agree to disagree in the course of polite discourse.

109124 Ernest you can never be trusted again! It’s obvious you’re an agent of the MOSSAD, disguised as an atheist and hellbent on America’s destruction.

I’m mostly Irish, English, Scottish and a little German too, and a Christian who favors the Gnostic verses. But it doesn’t matter, my grandmother was a Greek Jew, thus I’m an agent of evil.

109165

Cyrena I could care less if you are pissed, especially in light of how you assisted your buddies in that last dig. What was it you said about my commentary? Oh yea! “I don’t give a fuck!” Well in your case, either do I. Anyone with eyes can see for themselves who is lying here. I’m content to leave it to them! Also remember that every time you can’t figure out how to place a post or it mysteriously disappears, it’s me and the thought police at work. That’s right! Me, Amy Goodman, Robert Fisk, Chip Berkel, and all the other liberal journalists who are helping MOSSAD and Bush cover up 9/11. We’ll be watching! As for your future commentary, don’t bother aiming it at me. I’m finished with you and your neo-Nazi buddies. So kindly tell Robert and Franker than Frank they needn’t bother.

I will not let you (or your cronies)turn this current board into another circus. So kindly piss off!

I apologize to this board for this post!

#108999 by MS
• You should go into Fisk’s 9/11 with Caution dig and see the ugly(and insane) realities for yourself. In fact it was so ugly it compelled me to be ugly too, something I have never had to do previously on this board....you’ll see for yourself why Inherit has been forced to battle these right wing protagonists, a group that Cyrena was(and perhaps still is) in complete lockstep with.

Michael,
You are out of line, and I am pissed!! You are lying on me, and it’s the one thing I will not tolerate, from you, or anybody else. You will NOT put words in my mouth, or “intents” in my mind, or attribute ‘motives’ to me, seeing as how I have always, and will continue to always, think and speak for myself.

What you did, was to turn the Fisk thread into a topic about YOU and your ethnic identity. What I did, was to tell you that the subject of 9/11, was NOT ABOUT YOU, or your ethnic identity. That is what I said to you. I made it very clear to you, that your genetic heritage had ZERO to do with our discussion on the aspects of 9/11, and that is STILL the case.

Yes, there are posters/commentors on that thread, (as well as others) who would link the Mosaad, “Israeli Operatives” and any number of other Israel related –anything- to the 9/11 operation. I personally, have NEVER asserted a direct connection, because while that may indeed be the case, (because there IS some evidence to suggest that) I personally, have never ASSERTED that as my own ‘informed’ opinion. So, don’t EVER accuse me of being in ‘lockstep’ with any opinion other than MY OWN, which I am never afraid of, or intimidated from making crystal clear. Get that NOW Michael, and get it well. I am not in ‘lockstep” with anything. I never have been, and I never will be.

MY criticism of you on that post, had to do with the fact that you wanted to play victim to a distraction, and make yourself all wounded by the truth of the 9/11 operation, AS I SEE IT. And, I didn’t see where your Jewishness had a damn thing to do with it, and I still don’t.

I told you what I KNOW and ‘suspect’ about the 9/11 operation, based on facts and logic, and my own experience in the aviation industry. And, NONE of that has anything to do with Israel/Jews/Arabs etc.  You allowed yourself to get distracted because of the stuff directed at you from FTF. That was YOUR undoing, because you made it all about YOURSELF.

So AGAIN..my point(s) on that thread, in following the topic...QUESTIONING 9/11 WITH CAUTION.

1.  The attacks of 9/11 were NOT a result of 19 Arab highjackers carrying boxcutters.
2.  The towers at the WTC were blown up by explosives, and the airplanes (that we ALL SAW crash into those towers) DID NOT cause their demolition. I will repeat. The airplanes DID crash into those towers. The airplanes DID NOT bring them down.
3.  NO BOEING 757 ever hit the Pentagon. I don’t know what became of the passengers and crew on that airplane, but I DO KNOW that they did not die in that incident, because it NEVER HAPPENED.
4.  The United flight did not ‘crash’ in Shanksville PA. If it had, there would have been evidence presented as such. It has not been. I do NOT know what happened to those passengers and crew either, or what became of that airplane. I only know that along with everything else about the official Commission Report, that is a lie.

Yes. I WOULD like to know what actually DID happen to those people on those flights. It is important to me, as an American citizen, and as a long term member of the professional aviation community. And NO, for the last time, it has nothing to do with you or your ethnicity.

Last but not least, if you lie on me again, I’m coming to kick your ass. So, don’t do it. You can remain in denial about the events of 9/11 for the rest of the days of your life, and it will be fine. You will not be alone, and no one need be harmed by it. But, don’t drag your personal issues into a subject that doesn’t concern your personal issues.

Michael, my mother was Jewish, my father British and I am an atheist.  When my Jewish friends tell me that because my mother was Jewish, I am Jewish as well, I always respond, “What does that make my father, chopped liver?”

ITW, I could agree with you partially.  Gore would be superior to any who are running for President, save one--Dennis Kucinich.  Since Gore has made it clear he will not run, well....

109005 Inherit Ditto! and go Al go!

108968 Ernest you know me fairly well. You also know Inherit. As much as I truly hate to bring this up again, if you only knew what the two of us went through in that Fisk dig, I’m sure you would have been right there in the trenches with us.

Simply because I admitted(actually forced to admit after the fact) my grand mother was Jewish, something I never made a secret of and in fact mention a long time ago, I was labeled as an agent of the MOSSAD and the truth police, even though as you know, I have been very critical of Israel, particularly in regards to their treatment of the Palestinians. I am also critical of AIPAC and the other Jewish lobbies and was particularly disturbed by the recent events at Columbia University, discovering since it’s president is planning a massive renovation of the campus and depends upon Zionist owned contractors to get the job done. I also abhor the actions of the University of Minnesota, which banned Desmond Tutu in accepting his Nobel Prize because he compared the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territory to South African Apartheid. I am in total agreement with Tutu and see this much lobby power as absurd. I will even go further out on a limb to say I’m in much agreement(not lockstep) with the holocaust survivor Israel Shahak who is probably one of the most critically anti-Zionist Jew’s in its history. But none of this matters to these folks. My grandmother was Jewish, thus I am a liar.

That said, Inherit is correct that these people use neo-Nazi websites to promote their ideology and frankly I see it having very little to do with seeking the truth about 9/11(or any truth for that matter), but rather to blame Jews in general for all the problems of the world. There is no doubt that Israel has created many problems for the US but we must realize that no one was holding a gun to our heads. In fact it was the actions of the US in the first place which allowed a Jewish state. Even Hollywood shares responsible, depicting Arabs in a negative light since the end of WW2, around the same time US interests in oil peaked there and at the dawning of the new Israeli state that US corporations saw as a golden opportunity to lay foothold to the region. I even see AIPAC(an American made organization) as setting up the Jews in “a cry wolf situation,” even though many Jews realize this and are in fact opposed to radical Zionism and wish for a peaceful rather than militaristic solution.

But none of this matters to these folks. To them I am an agent of Israel sent here to disrupt this board and stifle the truth.

You should go into Fisk’s 9/11 with Caution dig and see the ugly(and insane) realities for yourself. In fact it was so ugly it compelled me to be ugly too, something I have never had to do previously on this board. As you read while you’re ducking “thought bombs,” “mother ships,” and a whole lot of fascism, you’ll see for yourself why Inherit has been forced to battle these right wing protagonists, a group that Cyrena was(and perhaps still is) in complete lockstep with.

108912

Verne I agree with you though I think you may have misconstrued my point.

Man can live in harmony with nature. Essentially he has until the industrial age. He can stop warring and he can seek cleaner more efficient ways of getting and utilizing his energy and he can utilize environmentally friendly tactics to manufacture products. The only reason he doesn’t is because he is governed by a few greedy corporations whose products and pollution create our greatest problems. That is not natural. In fact it could be construed as downright psychotic. War is not natural. Living in our own filth is not natural either but essentially that is exactly what we’re doing.

ITW, is there any topic at Truthdig that does not involve Israel?

#108865 by Michael Shaw on 10/22 at 4:59 pm
(636 comments total)

“Most of what mankind does is not natural, at least in the relevant sense. We lend chaos to any natural development on this planet, unless that is what our predestined DNA orchestration was meant to do, destroy this planet so it will eventually clean itself up to serve as host to another dominant species.”

We are prisoners of our DNA.

I would suggest that it is tacitly impossible for any human to act “against their nature” because everything we do is within the purview of our nature.  We may judge something to be repugnant to our world view but that is just our judgment.  We can not possibly understand ourselves as “humans”, if we look with expectation (pre-judgment) at our behavior.

108827 Dr Knowitall,

As fruitless as this probably is, the domestication of cows is an act of man, not nature. Like any other industrial activity, harboring literally millions of them is not a natural event. In fact it can be argued in doing so it wastes a whole lot more then it gives back. It also pollutes the environment in more ways then one.

Most of what mankind does is not natural, at least in the relevant sense. We lend chaos to any natural development on this planet, unless that is what our predestined DNA orchestration was meant to do, destroy this planet so it will eventually clean itself up to serve as host to another dominant species.

Being natural would be living in harmonic compliance to our natural surroundings, being ecologically symbiont. Since man shapes and “tames” the environment to suit his own needs rather than worry about the needs of the planet, or any other living entity on it he deems as valueless, what he does in essence comes at the expense of the planet and ultimately himself. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Regardless of who or what really started global warming, any reasonable person would realize our actions contribute to the problem, in fact far more so then anything short of a cosmic collision.

How could the person who can’t see the cause of global warming to be cow farts make a good president of the US?

108821 Rosemary, like you I like Al Gore(better than Hilary but not Kucinich). However since Blackwater and Rupert Murdoch(both neocons) are throwing more money at Hillary than anyone else, including any of the republican candidates, it seems at least they believe her chances are pretty good.

I believe short of a real blunder by the democrats, any one of them can defeat the republicans. They have created such a mess, most people realize the need to get rid of them. Either way we’ll still be entangled in the same ball of sting, an ongoing war on terror(and in Iraq and God help us Iran too), spiraling deficits, unfettered capitalism, outsourced jobs and insurmountable debt.

Hilary is the worst of the democratic nominees, but all the big money is behind her and big money wins elections, not issues. Hell the whole thing is a big corporate beauty contest involving candidates sponsored by corporations. As they say in the big tent, the show must go on.

108801 IE....To him, that was the ONE place where the separation of powers was immutable and without exception....

Well at least he got something right but alas it’s too late. The supreme court is owned by the schrub and will be for at least another 2 decades unless an act of god falls our way.

You are right of course. I merely wanted to point out Rehnquist for what he’s always been, a right wing racist.

I agree that O’Connor tried to hang in there too but obviously couldn’t. But really I see them both as I do Blackwater. Here is a company that started with Reagan, became even further important to Clinton when he downsized the military and have now essentially replaced our military, making them play second fiddle to them. As a proponent to war in general, I would suggest that if we doubled the size of our military presence in Iraq and dumped private mercenary contractors, we’d be saving the tax payer a bundle. But that after all is not the agenda.

Today Blackwater supports Hilary Clinton just as they do George W. Bush. In my view these corporations not only pose a general threat to democracy but also detract from the actual numbers in casualties and perhaps even present reason(beyond no draft) as to why the anti-war movement is not as big as it was during Vietnam.

My biggest fear of course is what will happen when either Bush or Hilary declare Marshal Law, leaving all of us in the hands of these contractors who are in fact out of the legal process. Now what will the Supreme Court do about that? We know the answer.

By the way, good to see you back! How in the world did you make out in that last horrific dig? Sorry to have abandoned you. Never in spirit though my friend!

Gore is a hawk, as is Clinton, who leads all candidates in contributions from employees of the defense industry.  He would no more make a priority of getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan (and, soon, Iran) than would Clinton--or the other Republicans not afraid to identify themselves as such.

The quote in the article taken from Gore’s September 23, 2002 presentation to the Commonwealth Club does not indicate that Gore is anti-war, as the author implies.  Gore was for the war, he just wanted to make sure it was well planned and ended with the thugs in Saudi Arabia and the dictator of Pakistan happy with the results.  (Moreover, in the same speech quoted in the article above, Gore repeated Bush’s lies about Saddam’s unstoppable pursuit of WMD and the notion that U.N. resolutions from the end of the Gulf War gave the U.S. all the legal authority necessary to invade Iraq again.)

Gore’s own words from just a few days earlier make his true position regarding Iraq and the willingness to invade it all the more clear.  This is what he had to say to the Council on Foreign Relations on February 12, 2002:

“As far as I am concerned, a final reckoning with that government [Iraq’s] should be on the table. To my way of thinking, the real question is not the principle of the thing, but of making sure that this time we will finish the matter on our terms.  But finishing it on our terms means more than a change of regime in Iraq. It means thinking through the consequences of action there on our other vital interests, including the survival in office of Pakistan’s leader; avoiding a huge escalation of violence in the Middle East; provision for the security and interests of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the Gulf States; having a workable plan for preventing the disintegration of Iraq into chaos; and sustaining critically important support within the present coalition.

“In 1991, I crossed party lines and supported the use of force against Saddam Hussein, but he was allowed to survive his defeat as the result of a calculation we all had reason to deeply regret for the ensuing decade. And we still do. So this time, if we resort to force, we must absolutely get it right. . . .”

Gore has never been against what most of the world recognizes as an illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003.  He said he didn’t trouble himself much the principles behind such an action.  Gore just wanted (and wants) to make sure the U.S. and its rogue allies of oil and convenience come out on top so they can be in a position to knock off the next country that stands in the way of easy profits and (hopefully) favorable prices for American businesses and consumers.  And, by the way, if you care to look, Gore’s record as a legislator was one of saying all the right things about the environment but backing down when big, polluting businesses opposed him.

That is hardly the sort of leader to turn things around.  Gore’s mystique is not supported by Gore’s actual words and deeds.  Ah, but how soon we forget when we want to believe.  Which is exactly how the conservatives ended up backing the worst president in U.S. history (so far).  Are the Democrats really dumb enough to follow that example?  So it would appear from all the hype about Gore as a presidential candidate in 2008.

This administration is playing the fear card. They want us to be afraid of everything from terrorists hiding behind every corner to a superflu that will wipe us out. That’s why when someone like Gore comes forth to expose certain environmental realities people find it hard to believe and see it as one more thing to detract us while the ripoff continues. The truth is this planet is dying and there is a whole lot of things we can do to slow down the process, but we aren’t. The almighty dollar and power lust are far more paramount. I picture these despots who rule and in fact own most of the world, counting their dollars and plotting their schemes right up to the last minute. They are so caught up in themselves and their money they couldn’t give a damn about this planet, its people or even their own grandchildren.

#108697 by cyrena
“I hope you found something good from Molly. Well, everything from Molly is good.”

I never did read Molly. Seems I loaned out all my books! So I settled for The Texas Observer, until the lights went. I sat in the dark, listened to the wind and thought about Gore.

This isn’t the first time violent wind storms, driving rain, record setting tornadoes, out of control wildfires, extreme high temperatures, extreme low temperatures, hail, snow, floods and drought have all happened at the same time in two days in mid October from sea to shining sea, is it?

Just a coincidence.

Gore did put up a battle. He was handicapped by a running mate named Lieberman [whom he did not pick] and a prejudiced media. After a six week siege of his home and family by “Hire a Protest” maybe Gore decided some things are more important than trying to save a country that doesn’t want to be saved.

There’s as many compelling views justifying the Supreme Court overstepping their bounds as there are condemning. Either way both sides now agree, the supremes did overstep their bounds!
I find that interesting.

A friend told me [apologizing] she had voted for Bush the first time around. Then, in spite of her remorse she said,

“You understand though, how could I vote for Gore after the things he said?”

I asked her “what things,” not having a clue what she was talking about. 

After a bit of humming, hawing and generalizing, it appeared to be just one thing.
He spoke way over her head.

Even if Gore was talked into running, he would never win. He’s far to intelligent for the American people. When people lack the wisdom to understand clear articulation and factual elucidating ... aren’t even smart enough to follow the lead of intelligent comment to an obvious conclusion, they deserve no more than the “sound-bite.”

So many words without any substance. The best way [I think] to describe campaign blabber.

Maybe it’s not that people cant follow an intelligent observation to an obvious conclusion so much as they don’t understand it’s THEIR responsibility to do so!

Or maybe folks are buried so deep under the daily grind of survival they prefer the sound-bite.
Like instant food. Open, nuke and eat.
No brain-strain required!

Maybe the American people have been de-feeling’ed. [who wants to be creative anymore?] and can only respond to a sound-bite.

Case in point, long before Gore versus Bush, Greg Palast had clear proof that the election outcome in Florida was a fraud! The few who hunt for food for thought new that early on. The majority who want to be spoon-fed spit it out, because the sound-bite in their funnel didn’t say that.

Speaking of funnels, that whole sorry mess was a clarion call to main stream media that it’s time they start earning the adulation and attention heaped on them.

But they didn’t hear. The so-called conservatives, hell-bent and determined to trash democracy, still heap praise on them. As does corporate America, as do the folks who get a headache if forced to remove funnel, insert brain.

As do they, on each other!

But things will change. Even the “intelligence challenged” are looking for change. Success in our society equates with how much stuff we have. Buying power’s diminished by a falling dollar and collapsing credit. Hence less stuff! Folks may not understand why that’s happening, but it is and they want it to stop.

Clearly current administrattion policy is not stopping it, so some things will change.

“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans ---- unless they have too much education and vote Democrat.”
Karl Rove

Education can come in the form of a hit in the pocketbook!

Education can come in the form of attending the funeral of someone returning from Iraq in a tin box!

So even though many still prefer to be fed by funnel, like it or not, they are getting an education.

And like Karl says, they’ll vote Democrat.
But not for Gore, he’s too smart.

108439 A Blunder Inherit? I’m not so sure! In fact I believe it was intentional. Don’t forget that Rehnquist and O’Connor were products of the Reagan administration and devout conservatives. The sad part is the news papers practically depicted them as liberals when in reality, most of their decision making has done much to bring us where we are today.

This comes from David Corn:
I confess: I have a hard time saying William Rehnquist, rest in peace. Supreme Court Chief Justice Rehnquist, who died on Saturday night, spent much of his adult life trying to restrict the rights of American citizens and to empower further the already-powerful. He rose to prominence as a right-wing attorney who decried the Earl Warren court for being a hotbed of judicial activism (left-wing judicial activism, as he saw it). He then became, as a Supreme Court justice, a judicial activist of the right-wing sort, overturning laws made by Congress (that protected women against domestic violence, banned guns near school property, and prohibited discrimination against disabled workers) and steering the justices into Florida’s vote-counting mess in 2000 (an act that only coincidentally--right?--led to George W. Bush’s presidency). In that case--Bush v. Gore--Rehnquist, for some reason or another, placed aside his much heralded belief in state sovereignty, which led him on other occasions to grouse about limits on the abilities of states to execute criminals. When it came to states frying prisoners, he advocated a hands-off approach. In vote-counting, he was all for intervention.

But let’s be clear: in recent years there has been no other Supreme Curt justice who had a personal history so loaded with racism--or, to be kinder than is warranted, tremendous insensitivity to racial discrimination--as did William Rehnquist. As a law clerk for Justice Robert Jackson in the early 1950s--when the Court was considering the historic Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation case--Rehnquist wrote a memo defending the infamous 1896 decision, Plessy v. Ferguson, which established the separate-but-equal doctrine. Rehnquist noted, “That decision was right and should be reaffirmed.” In other words, he favored continuing discrimination and racial segregation. During his 1971 confirmation hearings, after he was nominated to serve as an associate justice on the Supreme Court, he said that memo merely reflected Jackson’s view not his own. But few historians have bought that shaky explanation.

It’s not hard to conclude that Rehnquist was on the wrong side of history and then lied about it--especially given actions he took later. In 1964, Rehnquist testified against a proposed ordinance in Phoenix that would ban racial discrimination in public housing. As The Washington Post notes in today’s stories on his death, Rehnquist wrote at the time, “It is, I believe, impossible to justify the sacrifice of even a portion of our historic individual liberty for a purpose such as this.” In other words, people are not truly free if they are not free to discriminate. In his 1971 hearings, Rehnquist repudiated that stance. But did he really mean it? Twelve years later, he was the only justice to say that Bob Jones University--that hotbed of racial discrimination and religious bigotry--had a legal right to keep African-Americans off its campus.

“He Lived for The Law"--that’s how AOL headlined the story on Rehnquist’s death. But it’s not that Rehnquist had a blind spot on race. He was an active proponent of discrimination. Yet this fellow--without truly making amends--became chief justice of the highest court of the land. Only in America.

But, RdV, you do see my point, even if there is a greater desire to see me as wrong.

We’ll fuck it up long before we’ll make it right.

If you are right about the destruction of the Earth’s climate because of mankind’s industrial revolution, then we’re already screwed. Wiping with two pieces of toilet paper and reusing tissues won’t save you at this point. Hummer sales and SUV sales have skyrocketed in the last few years; gas guzzling beasts that ultimately tear up the ozone layer faster than a chain smoker can tear up their lungs.

Some of the biggest people that are seeking to stop ‘global warming’ are the same people that behave hypocritically. Private jets and hummers for the rich ones, SUVs and hybrids for the middle class ones. Hybrids actually -cause- quite a bit of pollution in order to be created. Shocking, ain’t it? But that’s what environmentalists push for: hybrid use. What they fail to realize is that eventually, these unused SUVs will go down to the poorer people who can’t afford to be fuel efficient. So, they’ll be screwed out of house and home, and they’ll cause as much pollution as possible as they do it.

If you really think that global warming is real, then you have already silently admitted one thing: we’re all dead. The damage done is irreversible, after all, and there’s been quite a bit of damage. Most of the things that rich people do to try and stop global warming end up -causing- a lot of harm. For example, a news crew wanted to raise awareness about global warming, so they flew their reporters to 6 continents. Never mind that such an act supports the expulsion of chemicals; we’re trying to raise awareness!

Of course, transportation is a HUGE chunk of pollution, and guess what? Transportation is used every day by the people trying to stop global warming. That would be like a pacifist trying to say that they wanted the war to end...but they were in the army killing people, then going to protest rallies. In short, they were contradicting their own message.

Look, I know that you really, really, really want global warming to be real so we can all bow down to Gore the Great and fantasize about him being president so we can all fight the war on global warming, and I respect that desire of yours. I, however, want nothing to do with it. I do as much as I can to try and stop pollution-cause I know that pollution is bad and I -know- that we are losing our Ozone layer. But global warming? Don’t be ridiculous. If you need some loud-mouthed windbag to make you ‘environmentally aware of Global warming’, then you were a fool.

In ten years we’re gonna feel the shit that happened because we are losing our Ozone layer. You’ll feel that nice 50’s pollution. And Gore’ll probably be sitting there with aluminum on his head, grinning and saying that he was right about Global warming, and everyone will cry out about it (a few conservative Christian’s will say that Jesus is about to come down on a golden cloud naked). Me? I’ll be sitting there, laughing my ass off. We’ve known about the Ozone layer issue for a while; at least since before Clinton was naughty. We’ve known, and yet Hummers were released after this knowledge. It took Gore telling you lot to realize that hey, that’s a bad thing.

This problem can’t be fixed, and at our current rates of consumption, it won’t even level out after a while. The problem will get worse and worse until we use up Earth’s patience and have to move out.

Of course, I don’t think that we managed to completely destroy the planet. That’s what you’re saying; that we’ve doomed the planet. No; we doomed -us-. There’s a big difference. Earth goes through a lot of changes; Earth ain’t gonna care if we all die and change her chemical structure. New things will grow that live just fine in the new environment, and life will go on. It’ll just go on without the whiniest species alive.

Akira_Maritias writes:

“Several hundred years ago there was a ‘mini ice age’, where the temperature dropped a few degrees lower than what it was before. I honestly do not think that WE caused global warming. This planet has existed for billions of years; are you saying that the less than one hundred years of pollution caused by us has completely destroyed that which has survived for so long?”

As a matter of fact, yeah, I do think human beings have the capacity to trash the place. After living in the same place for almost 50 years, you become familiar with the seasonal climate patterns and become aware when something is drastically out of kilter. I do think it is a combination of factors, including over-development and the swarming SUV situation- which slipped through the “light truck” loophole, but especially the mindset that you yourself display: we are irrelevant in relation to our living environment. That lack of consciousness is cultivated so “progress” is always at the expense of the environment for the temporary exploitation of the profit margin. Dismissing contributing factors that certainly have a measurable impact as natural forces is simply shirking reality.
You will have to pardon me, but your responses are so silly they barely warrant a response:
“… you are daring to state to me that mankind can so greatly destroy a planet in such a small amount of time.”
You are either very young and inexperienced in the sense that you haven’t been on the planet long enough to note the shifts over time or subject to embracing a mythology that denies our destructive capacities. There is no reasoning with a mindset that is stalled in denial.

As for the Right-wing talking points regarding Gore’s dependency on modes of transportation to get the message out, what do you want him to do, walk on water? The very fundamental point is we haven’t got alot of options because the very forces that deny the existance of global warming as a result of our present technology, profit greatly from our present technology and either repress development of alternative technologies--or spend millions to deny that the present technology has any scientifically measurable influence---that and seeking to kill the messenger. Then there are the predictable fools subject to such PR campaigns- they actually adopt views that ultimately are against their own future best interests. Unfortunately, the rest of us suffer along with the fools who still believe the shadows on the wall of the cave, while calling those concerned about what is going out in the world, the ones living in a cave.

“Americans are fed up with the President’s stalling and Congressional failure to act. Frankly, it is well past time we make a choice. And the only responsible choice left to us is to get all of our troops out of Iraq, with no residual forces left behind--no combat forces, no non-combat forces.”

“A hungry world will also hunger for scapegoats. A thirsty world will thirst for revenge. A world in crisis will be a world of anger and violence and terrorism.”

Sounds like Gore?  It is not.  It’s Bill Richardson. If you’re looking for a Democrat who believes all of our troops, and he means all, should be brought home from Iraq now and has global agenda to address climate change, environmental destruction, energy, poverty and hunger to save our planet and improve the welfare of the human race, learn more about Richardson.

You can start with
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gov-bill-richardson/its- time-to-make-a-choic_b_68860.html
and
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/20/183131/33

#108540 by Louise

• What was that scripture about boils on those who profess to believe? Somebody else find it. That book is depressing.

Not me Louise. NO WAY JOSE!! It IS a depressing book. I had nightmares the last time I tried. And, if somebody else finds it, I don’t even need to read it.

I hope you found something good from Molly. Well, everything from Molly is good.

#108439 by Inherit The Wind

This is a good one ITW..

• Gore didn’t realize, or believe, JUST how dirty, corrupt and evil George W. Bush is, or he might have fought harder and dirtier. He did fight--just not as effectively as he could have--and he TRUSTED the courts to be honest.

I can clearly agree with you on this, and I certainly couldn’t have said it as well. No doubt his error was in TRUSTING the courts to be honest. But then, I’ve made the same error myself. Because, until December 2000, didn’t we mostly think that we could? (well, I take that back, for people of color, we’ve pretty much always known it was a toss up, even after the CRM)

Still, what else could he have done, other than to trust the Courts? I’ve often wondered how he might have ‘fought harder and dirtier” but in the end, it means stooping down to that same level GW Bush-Cheney, and even then, it’s still a crap shoot. So, you lose anyway, and the loss becomes permanent. (like, dead instead of just wounded)

It’s interesting, (and informative) to know about Justices O’Day Connor and Rhenquist. I remember Thrugood Marshall making a similar comment, many, many years ago, something to the effect of “I”ll OUTLIVE the bastards!!”

Unfortunately, he didn’t. And, I’m not holding it against him. He’s still my Justice Hero.

Anyway, thanks for the take. Rhenquist is gone, but I suppose Justice O’Day Connor has nightmares of the blunder. If only we could have all learned from it. Did she ever SAY – even in retirement, that this was a huge blunder, and explain why? I’m just curious, because I wouldn’t necessarily expect her to. It’s really not SC Justice Decorum.

The only one who does stuff like that is the worst of the worst…Clarence the hate monger. Well, Scalia too, but nothing on the scale of Mr. Bitter Hate Himself.

108616 Scott I agree with you. All this leading the world crap began when we dropped two atomic weapons on Japan, not to so much shorten that war but to show friend and foe alike there is now a new world power.

Here’s a great article by John Cory, a former Vietnam Vet. This is about what’s really going on here and by whom and who we really are and damn well better be. This nation was created by men who were fearless. We are now being governed by the biggest group of chicken hawks in world history.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101707R.shtml

What burns me up is as always Dennis Kucinich isn’t even mentioned. He voted against the war and he supports impeachment yet even Richardson, who wears a flag on his lapel like Bush and company to remind us they are good Americans is.

I like Al Gore. In fact I voted for him in 2000 and was disappointed he didn’t run in 2004. If he won the nomination I’d vote for him again. But frankly the best in the lot is the guy that everyone says has no chance. Not only that, but they never even bother to mention his name. Dennis Kucinich.

“ I am deeply concerned that the course of action that we are presently embarking upon with respect to Iraq has the potential to seriously damage our ability to win the war against terrorism and to weaken our ability to lead the world in this new century.”
Al Gore

Why do Americans always feel they have to be leading the world everywhere it goes? Why don’t you just try following for awhile or better yet get out of the way?

Rovian Politics 101: Get a misleading header run by, let’s say the NY Times that reads something like “Nobel Winner Issues Apology for Comments About Blacks.”
It’s extra salty when it’s one of those perfect timing moments and you can get to lodge a notion in the back of there heads. I’m talking about the kind of notion where even though you’re one of the people that reads more than headers, you’ve learned it was Watson and it’s still too late because of the “shock” you felt initially when you thought of the first guy you could that won a Nobel this past week. Now imagine how many people just read headers and not to mention the ones that get the news from the people that only read headers.

#108267 by driving bear on 10/19 at 9:08 am
(112 comments total)

“I feel sorry for Al Gore , not because he lost the 2000 election, but because he has turned himself into Richard Simmons Remember back in the 1980’s Richard Simmons started the exercise fad that lasted a few years. In the 2000’s people are fatter then ever Gore will end up being the same thing for the global warming movement . in 2020 I bet both the USA and the world will be releasing more CO2 than in does today.”
***

Possibly, but since we’ll all be sick and dying from the super bugs our antibiotics have created, and drug reactions from drinking groundwater contaminated by already dead and dying “legal” drug dependents who did and do pee, and depleted uranium which by then, at the rate we’re releasing it, will be everywhere, not to mention the nuclear cloud created by Bush and/or those who follow his wicked example, that will encircle the globe, and the few who are still healthy enough to pack a gun, if they can find a bullet, will be fighting the wars on the borders [because our military will be gone, dead or dying] trying to keep the crippled but determined invading hordes from Mexico and Canada and Europe and China and Russia and everywhere else in the world where people are fed up with what our stupid fascist empire has done to us and them, at bay ... by then, it wont much matter.

Phewww!

I don’t feel sorry for Gore! At least he speaks up, and enjoys life, which might be a good example for politicians and their hanger-ons everywhere, if they were smart enough to pay attention. I for one like to follow his example, especially the enjoy part. Which I intend to do for the rest of my days, even though the stupid among us think God will come and sort it all out. He wont. Why should he bother when none of his self professed followers will? What was that scripture about boils on those who profess to believe? Somebody else find it. That book is depressing.

I’m going to go read something good and funny. Something by Molly I think.

Just so you know, “I coudda been a contenda” too.

#108362 by cyrena on 10/19 at 4:28 pm
(1309 comments total)

Bless your good heart.  Gore apparently fought in Nam; I believe this to be true.  But, in this modern world politic, he is out of his element and I think he knows it...that is why he will not run...window of opportunity....very narrow...he missed it and knows it.  Good on him.  We need to focus on the now and the now requires a dynamic leader, a future seer who can deliver a vision of a positive future.  Just think of a team of Gravel, Kucinich, and Ron Paul crossing all party lines for a selfless run at the best we could be, and a world view that unites and supports the best that we are.  God….what a rush…but alas, we don’t have this vision in our hearts and minds.  Would that it could be so………………………………!

Boyarksi’s article typifies the devoid-of-substance nonsense that passes for journalism in the corporate media.  He devotes an entire article to the chances that Al Gore could win, despite the fact that the man has made it abundantly clear to any who would listen that he will not run, period!

Boyarski makes the