Violence against American soldiers and Iraqi citizens has lessened. 

Here in the states - 138 cases of spousal abuse on one military installation in 2007.

There are people who will say “it’s the soldiers’ problems”.

I am a soldier’s wife - I am here to say it is EVERY American citizen’s problem.

The war is coming home - and the fact is - the issues we are about to face when it gets here are only in part because of combat stress.

Soldiers are citizens - civilians who thought military service was an honorable way to give their lives some meaning.  For many - the thought of finding something “positive” and giving after years of struggling to survive in a society where they felt that no one cared if they lived or died, meant everything to them - and the military became a home they never had…. 

....until a war of aggression based on misrepresentations and manipulations caused them to realize that their society let them down again. 

I am fighting hard to see that one soldier survives - my husband.  But it’s not just one soldier- it’s every soldier who believed in what they were doing when everything else they had believed in had eaten them up and spit them out.

What will it take for people to hear what I am saying???

What will it take for people to realize that the battlefield is not the only place where soldiers die??

And What Will It Take for people to stop the games and fight for this life with the real actions LIFE deserves????

Sorry, Nancy.  My literacy is in the English language.  It comes from books.  When it comes to Internet-speak, I suppose I am functionally illiterate.  Mea culpa!

#110151 by Nancy

....‘Have you become so used to arguing that you suspect the worse of everyone?’....

Man oh man…Everybody’s a little testy, and who can blame us I guess.

But, I just wanted to throw this in…about the arguing…It’s actually NOT a bad thing. Matter of fact, in some of our worlds, it’s actually very good, and it’s what we do for a living. (well, some do).

It brings me back to a conversation with an ex-in-law a couple of years ago. She ‘declared’ that she did not like ‘dissention’. In other words, everybody is supposed to agree with her, all of the time.

So, in order to honor and respect her wishes/orders, I just don’t talk to her anymore. (because there’s no way that I can ever possibly agree with her, or avoid this ‘dissention’ that she doesn’t like.)

Now, in her case, that’s an excellent and pratical solution. But, I certainly wouldn’t use that all the time, since there is generally much to be gained from argument. Well, sometimes.

Oh get off your high horse Nancy!  My posts, from the beginning, have noted how NAFTA & the WTO have permitted a small wealthy elite to outsource our mfg. base in search of the $2/day laborer.  From the beginning I have posted that I favor returning to bilateral trade agreements which protected workers rights and shielded the environment in order to protect the middle class aspirations of American labor.

The first time you entered the discussion was to launch a personal attack.  You called me “naive to the point of absurdity,” adding, “If it weren’t for the ‘$2 a day worker’ in China, Vietnam & India, Americans whould [sic.] already be living in poverty.”  You suggested our factories just had to “move to where costs are susteainable” and then perverted everything I had to say by suggesting that I “would like to see all underclass Americans as slaves to the monied elites” which is precisely 180 degrees from what I had actually been saying.

When I responded by exposing the fallacy of your reasoning, noting that $7 billion/year profits for the Walton family was a bit more than “sustainable” and demonstrating why we, the American working and middle class, cannot afford these “always low prices,” you replied that it appears we were in agreement all along.

If we were in agreement, why did you find it necessary to first inject yourself into what had been an intellectual discourse by suggesting that my ideas were “naive to the point of absurdity.” 

Your suggestion that I did not read what you said is unwarranted.  I read every word.  Perhaps your barely literate skills prevented you from actually saying what you mean.  If you intended to convey that you and I are in agreement, your remark that I was “naive to the point of absurdity” was a very poor method of conveying our intellectual accord.  I do not write out of anger.  I do write out of a brutal honesty which rejects B.S.  If I have offended you by my honesty, then I am truly pleased.

#109217 by Conservative Yankee
•  OH, BTW to plug a whole in your argument you should investigate our debt to Saudi Arabia, Japan, and Kuwait under Jimmy Carter.  in the late 70’s we may have been the #1creditor nation” as you claim (I haven’t looked it up uet) BUT we also owed a shit-load of money to these three nations!
CY,
This is worth a ‘double check’ at least when you have time. I think you’re right on about Japan, but I’m inclined to question Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, at least under Jimmy Carter. So, it would be worth checking into. It’s difficult to believe that if in fact we did owe money to Japan, that the debt was actually incurred under Carter. (IOW, I think he may have inherited it, if indeed we even had this debt).
Saudi Arabia is harder to imagine, since the US is responsible for the riches of that country. In short, the US built ARAMCO, making it America’s Kingdom. And, it began back in Eisenhower’s days, when he agreed to train Ibn Sa’ud’s Army. Every President since, has continued that support, making Oil and ARAMCO America’s largest single overseas PRIVATE enterprise. And, they didn’t do it ‘nicely’ either. It involved slave labor and a disastrous Jim Crow system, to put together. One the likes of which we haven’t seen, (at least this blatantly) since the Civil War.

If you have access to a library near you, this book is worth checking out…”America’s Kingdom: Mythmaking on the Saudi Oil Frontier.” Author is Robert Vitalis, ISBN 13:978-0-8047-5446-0

It’s very informative. So, if in fact ‘we’ ever owed any money to the Saudis, it probably wasn’t ‘we the people’ who owed it, and it didn’t begin under Carter, but rather long before that.

Japan is a different story. I don’t know about Kuwait, other than to suspect that much of the labor to build the Kingdom may have come from there.

But manufacturing here will only work, CY, when we repeal NAFTA & the WTO to eliminate competition with the $2/day laborer in China and India.  We should be looking to bilateral trade agreements that serve to protect middle class interests both at home and abroad rather than the fortunes of the global ruling class.

Kudos CY.  I agree where feasible, people should buy locally.  But I also think, to the extent possible, we need to be manufacturing locally, growing and selling our food locally.  Aside from the economics, there are ecological issues given the amount of energy wasted shipping products and produce all over the world when the same items could be produced and consumed locally.

Nancy, I think you are missing the point.  The issue is not whether you or any other individual can find American-made electronics in stores today.  The issue is how we got into this mess, and what has to be done to get out of it.  We got into this mess by passing NAFTA & the WTO.  We can get out of it, not by kissing Chinese behinds, but by repealing NAFTA & the WTO, replacing them with bilateral trade agreements that respect workers’ rights and the environment.  That means we stop trading with China, which is Communist in name only but in reality is now an environmentally and socially irresponsible fascist/capitalist haven; that we insist not on “free trade” which are code words for perpetuation of a neo-feudal world order where there are the inordinately wealthy few, and everyone one else resembles an indentured servant.  We replace it with “fair trade”—trading only with those nations who respect workers’ rights and provide decent wages.  We reopen American manufacturing.  If the extraordinarily rich won’t go along with reducing their billions in profits for the good of the many, then we make those manufacturing plants state owned, worker run and operating on the basis of the needs of our many citizens—not the profits of the few.

If that is what you have in mind, then yes we agree, but I think not.

Nancy—sustainable?  I would think that $7 billion/year in annual profits for the five members of a Walton family, which already has $100 billion between them, make the price of obtaining goods in China at $2/hr. a little more than “sustainable.” 

Your post reminds me of a conversation that is said to have taken place between Henry Ford and Walter Reuther as the two walked past a new, automated section in the Ford assembly plant.  Ford pointed to the new machines, turned to Reuther and said, “Bet you’ll have some trouble collecting union dues from these guys.”  Reuther responded, “Yeah, and who y’a gonna get to buy your cars?”

The plain and simple fact is that “sustainable” manufacturing existed for more than two hundred years in these United States before NAFTA or the WTO.  The most prosperous years for America—the country—not necessarily America, the wealthiest one percent—were the post war years under Keynsian economics in which a viable middle class sustained our own manufacturing base.  That prosperity made the United States the world’s number one creditor nation.

It is the current irrational system that is “not sustainable.”  Because there has been a near complete outsourcing, there is now very little that is made in the U.S.A. save weapons—we are the world’s largest supplier of items used to kill people; every thing else is made elsewhere.  As a result, we import.  Military production is parasitic.  What goes into the military budget does not produce goods that enter the marketplace. 

Since the cost of a military to maintain an empire is extraordinarily expensive and since the U.S., thanks to outsourcing, now suffers a massive trade imbalance, U.S. debt has gone through the roof.  All it would take is for our Chinese creditors to pull the plug, and we would be plunged so deep that the Great Depression would look like a financial boom. 

Perhaps the best statement I have seen as to the direction we are being taken by “free trade” and globalization ideology was provided by Chalmers Johnson on the cover of Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine.” He described it as leading to “our headlong flight back to feudalism under the guise of social science and ‘freedom.’”

Hinesville is a small community that most likely would exist with or without the military presence, although the military installation is what provides the work these days.  It was in existence back during WWII, along with several other smaller surrounding communities that have since been swallowed up by Ft. Stewart expansions. 

On the training grounds of Ft. Stewart there are over 300 civilian cemeteries with markers dating back to pre-civil war.  They’re all neatly fenced and marked now and family members still have access to the dirt roads that lead to the last bit of physical recognition that these small farm communities ever existed.

Small family owned businesses still chug away, making enough to keep open, fueled by loyal customers who refuse to pay less at Lowes if it means taking business away from the local lumber yard. 

The people in this community are not happy with the war these days, even though most of them probably voted Republican in the last election - simply because they don’t trust the Democrats enough to believe it would be worth the change.  But many of them are veterans, and they all remember what it was like to serve.  They also know these military personnel are facing a far more difficult situation, for many different reasons, than many prior veterans faced.  They do what they can to help the soldiers and to help the families during deployments. 

Many local rental businesses barter work in exchange for housing - carpenters, electricians, A/C repair men, lawnkeepers, all do work for reduced rental fees.  It’s a give and take proposition that seems to work. 

Soldiers who return from Iraq and are preparing to retire are often given the opportunity to start with the business they might be moving to after retirement, if it is a local business, if their work schedule does not alter their duty to the military, and if the business is amenable to unannounced time from work for training missions.  It helps the soldiers learn a new trade, and helps keep the community connected to the soldiers.

Working with the soldiers and their families doesn’t just mean soldiers are being taken care of - but it strengthens the community as well. 

People are trying to make better things happen - to work on communications between the military and civilian sectors, and to understand each other’s perspectives.  It may be the only way we can keep this country moving forward.

So what’s with the complaint about 1001 comments, Doug?  I note that you’re up to 966—that many comments without a coherent thought.  How do you do it?

#109140 by Nabih Ammari on 10/23 at 6:49 pm: “Oh Baghdad…”

Um Kulthum - Baghdad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMVTHhl-Wz4&eurl;=

#109161 by Ernest Canning on 10/23 at 8:18 pm: “...you are correct that our credit status is going down the tubes.  That was not true in the 70s because we were then the world’s number one creditor nation.  Starting with the Reagan administration, we lost that status as an every growing percentage of the GNP was sunk into the parasitic growth of the military industrial complex….”

1001 comments and you still can’t learn any manners, EC, ha ha. Finally, you got it right about the “military industrial complex” but it actually started with the Vietnam war (the “American war”, to them) and accelerated exponentially with the arrival of the Bush dynasty and the two Gulf wars (the “American war”, to them as well, uhh!).

Blaming it all on the Clinton “dynasty” is merely your own childish way of avoiding the reality of your (a) having done nothing to stop it, and (b) still doing nothing to stop it. Sadly, a number of Truthdig commenters have this weakness in common.

As for NAFTA, building a ‘Berlin Wall’ across the Mexican border proved to be disastrous and so the rustbelt era meant that manufacturers and investors vooted with their feet and went to China instead. You now get to pay extra shipping costs as well as a result.

The fact is that the human race needs each other. The problem has been the rise of empires and the selfish and self-righteous European colonialist-expansionist exploitation and domination of the planet which is now coming quickly to an end. The Bush Neocons are the last of that ilk and you can forget about the 1898 “the eagle’s wingspan of 10,000 miles” arrogant dream!

Yeah, Doug, we can’t afford the price of our own mfg goods precisely because NAFTA & the WTO opened the door to outsourcing, making us compete with the two dollar a day laborer.  When we stopped manufacturing our own products, stopped protecting decent wages, and then used the competition with the two dollar per day laborer, Hillary and her wealthy friends were able to convince numbskulls like you that we can’t afford our own products—meanwhile, Hillary’s old company where she served on the Board of Directors—Wal-Mart, which did not have a single store outside the continental U.S. in 1991 and is now the world’s largest corporation.  It thrives on sweatshop labor overseas while insisting that its own employees survive on $11,000 to $15,000 per year.  These scrooges have even invented off-the-clock schemes in which employees are told to clock out and then sent back to work for nothing.

Wal Mart’s “always low prices” may be punctuated by always low wages for the working class stiffs, but it equates to $7 billion per year in profits, placing the five members of the Walton family whose combined net worth exceeds $100 billion, amongst the ten richest people in the world. 

When, Doug Chalmers are you going to wake up to the neoliberal scam?  Try reading “The Global Class War” by Jeff Faux.  Perhaps, some of it will sink in and you will begin to figure out that the American working and middle classes have been had.  Thirty years ago, at $1.3 million, the average annual CEO compensation was 39 times that of the average worker.  Today, at $37.5 million, it is over a thousand times that of the average worker, who experienced a ten percent loss of real wages during the same 30 years.  During the past 25 years the number of Americans below the poverty line swelled from 21 million to 33 million. Yeah, I suppose those millions we added to the poverty ranks can’t afford to buy our products.

Wealth disparity, not just within the U.S. but throughout the empire, has grown to the point that by 1999 the net worth of just three individuals, Bill Gates, Paul Allen & Warren Buffet, was larger than the gross domestic product of the world’s 41 poorest nations and their 550 million people. 

Finally, you are correct that our credit status is going down the tubes.  That was not true in the 70s because we were then the world’s number one creditor nation.  Starting with the Reagan administration, we lost that status as an every growing percentage of the GNP was sunk into the parasitic growth of the military industrial complex.  The process of outsourcing, facilitated when the Clintons joined with Reagan/Bush in ramming through NAFTA and the WTO greatly accellerated U.S. debt to the point now that we are the world’s largest debtor nation.  Yeah now we’re broke.  Ever wonder why?  It isn’t because we can’t get enough cheap goods from China.

I am sorry to sound rude, Doug, but your lack of a basic understanding of what has happened in this country over the last forty years is nothing less than astounding.

108987 by Ernest Canning on 10/23 at 8:06 am: “...Back in the 70s walking out at GM or Chrysler would have been a major threat to the companies’ bottom lines.  Today, it merely aids in the accelleration of movement of their manufacturing plants overseas…”

EC, you are naive to the point of absurdity. The USA can’t afford the price of its own manufactured goods. If it weren’t for the “$2 a day workers” in China, Vietnam and India, Americans whould already be living in poverty. You only have what you do by virtue of the fact that your factories have moved to where costs are sustainable.

Get it?!?! If not, you will when the value of the $US falls to what it is really worth - somewhere near zero! Don’t forget that the world won’t let you run away from paying all that foreign debt, either. The era of forcing it back onto people in West or East Asia by ‘gunboat diplomacy’ is over!!! The worm has turned…..

Shenonymous -

You make a valid point.  It’s one that we stress whenever we speak to people about our experiences.  It’s also the subject of the first article I wrote back in 2004, which called attention to the need to threaten Kevin’s CO application. 

We live two miles from Fort Stewart.  People are not ready for what will happen when all the military personnel finally come home.

The roads leading through the training grounds here are lined with Billboards - “don’t drink and drive, we want you alive” - and “be a hero, stay alive to continue the fight”—addressing the command’s concerns that soldiers were returning home, using their combat pay to buy motorcycles and fast cars, then drinking and driving to forget their experiences.

The command went so far as to open a bar on post - and open the main gate to civilians so that more girls would be in the bar for the soldiers.  The idea (and this was in an AP article) was to keep the soldiers close to home so when they drank they could walk to the barracks. 

There is a sign in the ground outside the PX on post - surrounded by 138 pinwheels.  It says “138 confirmed cases of Spousal Abuse on this installation in the FY 2007”.  In 2004 a duplicate sign read “131 confirmed cases of spousal abuse” and in 2005 a different sign was posted “191 confirmed cases of child abuse”.  The problem with this is the sign is posted on Ft. Stewart, but not mentioned anywhere in the surrounding community where civilians could learn of the problems and be of assistance.

Kevin and I are working on a project - Benderman’s Bridge.  We hope to work with communities to generate support for offering alternatives to military personnel - not just war resisters, but all men and women who served.  If we could offer them alternatives within the communities, and get the communities involved in generating programs for vocational training, educational support, affordable housing, family support - it would give the military a place to turn other than re-enlisting for another tour simply because the health benefits are there.  BUT - the far reaching goal is to transform this into a program which could benefit all members of the community, even as it reaches out to military personnel, or those with the potential to enlist because they don’t feel they have any alternatives.

One of the big problems as I see it with bringing the troops home en masse and soon, is the problem of unemployment.  Very little is being said about this as a problem.  Doesn’t anyone else think it is?  As we saw at the end of Vietnam, thousands of soldiers came home to no job and the unemployment rates went way up.  This meant terrible news for politicians.  Aren’t we going to be faced with the same catastrophe with Iraq veterans?  Take a look at how the government has taken care of injured soldiers after released from Vet hospitals but still needing care.  Do you think for a minute the government is going to care about jobs for veterans?  The national unemployment rate for September was 4.7% up from 4.6% in January 2007 according to Trading Economics.  In 2006 the veteran jobless rate was 10.6%, but you cannot get a rate for jobless veterans right now.  Wonder why?

Back in the 70s walking out at GM or Chrysler would have been a major threat to the companies’ bottom lines.  Today, it merely aids in the accelleration of movement of their manufacturing plants overseas as the companies join the outsourcing parade.  We, the American people, have been betrayed by a wealthy elite who have used NAFTA & the WTO to outsource the nation’s manufacturing base in an endless search for the $2/day laborer while what remains of American labor is being reduced to below poverty wages at Wal-Mart or to serving the empire as cannon fodder.  Despite the fact that the Clintons were one of the principle movers in facilitating this betrayal, ramming NAFTA & the WTO through on the fast track, like helpless lemmings, polls show that a large number of our citizens, numbed by a dumb-down corporate media, will vote in favor of their own betrayal because, after all, isn’t time we had a woman president?

There is a way out.  There is a candidate who truly stands with the vast majority of Americans—the middle and working classes.  There is one presidential candidate—and only one—who calls for a repeal of NAFTA & the WTO and a return to bilateral trade agreements that respect worker’s rights and the environment.  A candidate who supports single-payer healthcare that would eliminate the unnecessary corporate middle men who account for 31% of the healthcare costs—for profit healthcare insurers and HMOs.  That candidate is Dennis Kucinich.

Seems to me the UAW walked out of GM on a prime business day - and the contracts were sealed in less than a day. 

When they walked out on Chrysler it was not even an hour was it?

Saturday events, with dancing and singing and large comical puppets aren’t all that intimidating - and it really doesn’t show much in the way of a willingness to commit to giving something of value to the cause.

The UAW put their jobs on the line, shut down production and made their point.

People have to be willing to put something real on the line -

Oh Baghdad….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WUpIcsJRw&NR=1

#108907 by Verne Arnold

You’re right of course Verne, and I knew that’s what you meant. But, just not ENOUGH of us are doing all of these things. Even the demonstrations aren’t big enough, or well timed enough, to SHUT THE MF DOWN for a little while!!!

A couple or few days of folks just walking, or milling around in the streets, and skipping work, and shopping, and just not doing ANYTHING, (even if they didn’t march anywhere) would be good enough for starters. Hell, everybody in California could just go hang out on highway 101 or I-5, and just have a picnic, (except for now, there’re wild fires all over the place, at least on the Southern end of it) If the THUGS can organize this stuff, it just seems like we ought to be able to do the same thing.

We haven’t done any serious boycotts, (worked for MLK) and what about all of those sit or stand-ins that all of Gandhi’s people did in India? They just sat there, and wouldn’t move. Seems like we ought to be able to get at least 10 or 20 million of us squeezed into DC, (even though I know they’ve got georgies house all barricaded up). There’s gotta be at least that many of us out of work already. What’s a bus ticket to DC cost anyway?

And how about EVERYBODY just don’t buy a single drop of gas for a whole week? And, boycott ALL airports and commercial travel for the SAME week? What if EVERYBODY boycotted Walmart for the SAME week?

It’s been done. And, it’s not violent at all. Doesn’t even seem like that big of a sacrifice. Just…nobody move. And, if nobody’s moving, and nobody’s spending a dime on anything, (which should be easy enough for lots of us), I bet it would work just fine. At least they’d know we were serious. Just need a little organization, so everybody knows which week to stay put. Keep doing that every few weeks, and they’d get the message.

What could they do? Send the police out to drag everybody to work? Or go force a bunch of people out of their houses, or out of the streets, and make ‘em go shop? Maybe force the homeless to fill in as scabs? (now THAT would be a hoot). Can’t you just see a bunch of homeless people working the pharmacy at Walmart, or maybe the electronics department, even though they would be in there alone, since nobody else is supposed to shop? I think that would be a great idea. Besides, they deserve to have a roof over their heads, and the Walmarts have everything they’d need to be comfortable for a week or so. The main thing is just that nobody spends a dime, and prevents anybody else from spending a dime.

We could post a bunch of signs on the first day…AMERICA IS CLOSED FOR REMODLING.(and general pest extermination) And then, just sit our asses down, and howl at the moon or something.

How dangerous is that?

#108882 by cyrena on 10/22 at 5:44 pm
(1338 comments total)

Verne 108720

• Well Cyrena, As I said before: What do you really want and what will you pay for it?
It seems to me we want the “world” but what’s missing is “sacrifice”.  Look at our troops…talk about sacrifice!...jeez…these guys and gals are getting killed, maimed (mentally and physically)… The failure is one of connection….most of us are in major disconnect; we just don’t quite see (understand) the big picture…

Well, you’re sort of preaching to the choir on this one Verne, since I already get the big picture.

Cyrena,
This was not originally aimed at you personally…it was an all inclusive “you”, for the ones who don’t get it.  I know you do.  My ongoing frustration; the reasons for which, should be obvious, is the apparent powerlessness of everybody in this country with the exception of the gangsters in the WH.
Writing,
Voting,
Demonstrating,
Blogging/Blogs,
E-mailing,
Activism,
Yelling, screaming, cursing, swearing, singing, crying, bleeding, praying, and finally dying.  All for naught.

Verne 108720

•  Well Cyrena, As I said before: What do you really want and what will you pay for it?
It seems to me we want the “world” but what’s missing is “sacrifice”.  Look at our troops…talk about sacrifice!...jeez…these guys and gals are getting killed, maimed (mentally and physically)… The failure is one of connection….most of us are in major disconnect; we just don’t quite see (understand) the big picture…

Well, you’re sort of preaching to the choir on this one Verne, since I already get the big picture. And, I don’t see as how there’s anymore ‘sacrifice’ involved, than we’ve already got going. (the above mentioned troops). I want the troops home, NOW, because their sacrifice, is not to anyone’s advantage. They are being ‘sacrificed’ for OIL, and who’s gonna get it? NOT US. We’ll still be held hostage by Cheney, because we’ll have to buy it from them, after they steal it from Iraq. Since he can’t steal it without our troops, we can let the Iraqis have their own OIL, and we’ll BUY it from them. (no sacrifice there, since they aren’t gonna charge us $10billion a month for it, which is what it’s costing to kill/maim our troops, along with millions of Iraqis, and they STILL haven’t stolen the oil)

And nope, I DON’T want ‘the world”. And I don’t think the average American ‘wants the world”, since we could all do quite nicely, with even a PARTIAL re-distribution of the wealth. (what could we do with $10 bill a month?) A hell of a lot, as long as 1 person isn’t taking $9billion of it, and leaving us to fight over the rest.

However, this scheme doesn’t allow for anyone to become FILTHY rich. It just allows for more people, to live more fulfilling lives, and allows us to become self-sufficient again.

So, that’s what I want. Not the world, just the troops home, so we can get them well, and use our money on THEM, and the rest of US, instead of giving it to Dick Bush. Now, how much sacrifice does that involve? We get our neighbors together, (anybody that can move with relative ease), and we pack up some shit, (water, maybe some ‘road rations” pick some fruit along the way) and we all walk our asses to DC. Since not everybody will be able to make the trip, they can just stay where they are, and provide rest stops and way-stations.
How long would that take? Well, it would depend on where we’re walking from. But hell, it’s been 7 years. I think we can do it faster than that. Whoever gets there first, just start setting up shop. The apparatus is already there. We’ve got the buildings, offices, etc, etc.

So, let’s get with it. Anybody who can walk, needs to start walking. Anybody who can’t, needs to start cooking. Pack you stuff. Firearms are not required, but small knives and other weapons will be allowed, (slingshots, bows w/arrows, etc) first aid kits. I don’t think we have to worry about any huge armies overtaking us, seeing as how we’ll be on the move. (hard to target a moving mass) and besides, who would do it anyway? Blackwater? There aren’t THAT many of them, and the rest of the national guard and Army and Marines are in the Middle East. (found that out with New Orleans, eh?)

Meantime, you’ve got NINE US warships in the Persian Gulf right now. You start packing them to the gills with the troops that are already there, and they head home. For the rest, we borrow/rent some airplanes. (Weve got more than enough here, but we can also arrange with Iran and maybe Egypt, to use some of theirs). That’ll take care of the rest. We start walking now, and they leave the Middle East now, and we’ll be able to meet ‘em in DC when they get here. I think it’ll all work out. Get the sign-up sheets going. So what if nobody goes to work. All we need is food and water, and we’ll get that along the way. (good time of the year for it anyway)…all the crops should be in harvest condition.

That’s the plan. No sacrifice required.

Cyrena;
Addendum, this administration is getting recruits because they are offering huge re-up bonuses (45,000 - 150,000)...given most of the soldiers are not college degreed it looks like Avalon, the dream come true….but only if you make it home in one piece…many don’t.  Most don’t if you count mental health…..........

#108715 by cyrena on 10/22 at 1:42 am
(1334 comments total)

Well Cyrena, As I said before: What do you really want and what will you pay for it?

It seems to me we want the “world” but what’s missing is “sacrifice”.  Look at our troops…talk about sacrifice!...jeez…these guys and gals are getting killed, maimed (mentally and physically), failed marriages and relationships, and god knows what else.  The failure is one of connection….most of us are in major disconnect; we just don’t quite see (understand) the big picture…I think.  To your point about losing ones job; sure, that’s possible….shoot…now, with this gov’t, anything is possible (hell, an American citizen can be jailed without habeas corpus!)…but that is just exactly the point…so again…what do we want and what are we willing to pay for it?………the answer to that question is the thing that frightens me. 
I don’t much care what it takes, short of armed insurrection, I just want us to get a plan and do it.

Outraged, Verne,
I’m glad you answered this, because I couldn’t remember which thread it was on.
I personally, think it’s a WONDERFUL idea. And, it doesn’t matter if you don’t celebrate it anyway, (neither do I). It just matters that every single body who DOES celebrate it, DOESN’T do it this time. No buying, no shopping, no gifts, no parades, no decorations, no anything. (gonna be hard to keep folks out of church though..so they can do that if they want). Lets’ just acknowledge that there is a WAR going on!!
So, somebody just help us figure out how to organize the AWARENESS of this. Like, get the word out. It’s not that far down the road.
Meantime, here’s a link to another of the same, planned for this upcoming Saturday. October 27th.

http://www.oct27.org

There are some other links for this same activists’ group, but my eyes are closing, so I’ll have to do them later in the day.

If anybody can help spread the word on this one though, we’d be grateful.

Oh, on the calling in sick…that does work, (we used to call them ‘sick-outs’) but there are of course always repercussions. (or possible ones) and that especially holds, if not everyone does it. They can alter days, but it has to be pretty much 100% involvement, so that the ones that do, (if there are only a handful, or even 35%) don’t just get dumped, fired, shitcanned…

Because, that’s what most of these corporations at least, will do. Matter of fact, they’d love the opportunity to fire anyone who doesn’t come in on what they will call an ‘illegal work strike’. Now if it’s EVERYBODY, it’s kind of hard to fire them ALL, and still run the business at a later time.

So, that’s just something to keep in mind. Civil disobedience, even at its most non-violent form, (think Gandhi and MLK) still comes with some risks. Thing is, so does EVERYTHING that’s worth anything. Besides, it really doesn’t seem like there’s all that much left to lose. At least not for the bulk of us.

#108578 by Outraged on 10/20 at 11:54 pm
(271 comments total)

RE: #108482 by Verne Arnold on 10/20

Do you think we could get a worldwide movement to NOT celebrate Christmas in protest of the war?

This would be huge if done worldwide.  This would impact the food, manufacturers, transportation, retail, liquor and tourist industries to name a few.

Sure…but I for one, already do not celebrate x-mas, haven’t for many years.
I think one day everybody against the war; should wake up, and, all on the same morning, don’t go any where…just stay home…call in sick…one day….everybody…that would get noticed…for sure.  Kind of like “The Day the Earth Stood Still”.

What do ya think?

#108659 by monica

Monica,

Thanks so much for your response, and for your email address. I have copied it down, and I will write soon, with my own.

It may not be until tomorrow, since I’m sort of real behind right now, but I will definitely be in touch.

Best to you and Keith. Hang in there, help is on the way. (or, at least a good ear.)

Cyrena and Ernest -

Thank you.  Trust is the reason the posts were as they were to begin with.  There’s a great deal that could be misconstrued by people without the capacity to understand. 

If you two would be willing, my email address is (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) I can make things very clear.  If not I understand.

Reply to #108601 by monica benderman

Monica,

Thanks so very much for putting the real deal down in writing, so that we might all (or anyone paying attention) actually understand, and connect the dots. I’m so sorry you didn’t offer this the first time, because without it, there’s no way for the reader/listener to comprehend the seeming contradictions in your earlier posts. By all means, as I read, I can far better ‘interpolate’ and get to the REAL ISSUES.

So, I’m going to say this again, and I’m NOT being facetious in saying this, (which is exactly what you erroneously assumed when I put it forth the first time) YES!!! This IS a nightmare –a horrible one- that you and your husband have had to endure. And, although I should be able to come up with some descriptive words for it, I’m at a loss right now.

So, I’m going to say this, and I hope that you find it useful. This is the epitome of injustice. You have both been ‘targeted’ by this regime that high-jacked our government long ago. And, their people are EVERYWHERE. They are in the military…at the highest commands. They are in the Corporations, and they are in the Churches.

Now, I’m going to assume, (since you were communicating with Cynthia McKinney) that you’re located in Georgia. THAT alone, made you even MORE susceptible to the tactics that were used against you and your husband. AND, if you’ve had time to follow the general ‘trend’ of this, you’ll know that Cynthia McKinney has undergone the VERY SAME type of ‘persecution’ (for lack of a better word). It is, in short political lynching from this gang of Thugs that has taken over. They have targeted HER, as well.

And, while I have PERSONALLY experienced this same scenario (AND MORE) –it’s too much for me to put down at the moment. I will when I can. But the most very important part to make overwhelmingly clear at this point, is that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. This is not only a character assassination, but like I said earlier…A LYNCHING. It is designed to BREAK DOWN, and totally DESTROY any person who might show any form of dissent. This is the real deal, this is what it’s about, and this has happened to SO MANY people that you may as yet be unaware of, and with good reason. Because, that’s how they’ve managed to do this. And the bottom line, is that it cannot HELP but take a horrible toll on you. There’s no way around it. It has taken me nearly 7 years, to overcome some of the damage, and even now, I’ve only barely been able to crawl back up enough out of the hole, to be able to look around, and at least be able to see where the ‘enemy’ is, so that I can attempt to maneuver my way through the land mines that are all still there. I thought I’d escaped to a certain degree, but as time has passed, things have only become worse, as the Thugs in Power have become more desperate.

In short, these are horrific times, for all of us, and some have paid a far bigger price than others. Some, like Valerie Plame Wilson, (and her story is now on the front page of Truthdig, and worth the read if you don’t know her situation) are more ‘well known’ to the general public. This is politics Monica, and none of us are immune from it, if we dare to speak up. This is why I explained the importance of HISTORY. In all honesty, MOST of us alive today, (with the exception of nearly all black Americans, who have simply lived with this forever) are too young to remember the McCarthyism of the 50’s, but…it’s back, and it’s worse, because it is disabling more and more of us, in larger and larger numbers. In other words, it’s far ‘bigger’ than just your situation, or my situation, or Ehren Watada’s situation, or even Valerie Plames situation.

There is a small part that will be ‘missing’ between this and part 2. Not all that important. I can address it later.

TBC

Part 2 reply to monica 108601

Yes, they saw how their fellow citizens were being targeted. But, everybody just kept silent, for fear of jeopardizing their own –whatever- job, status, and yes…false security. Because, in an environment such as this, it IS a false security.

So, it was probably 2004 or whenever Cindy Sheehan first began her own movement, before I got even a glimmer of hope, that people were finally waking up. AND…even at that, she was vilified, demonized, and had her own character assassinated, for her efforts. So, if you want to direct your very justifiable frustration and outrage – it should be to that remaining part of the population who still follows blindly along, SHOPPING, and concerning themselves with bullshit superficial stuff, or watching Oprah, or playing righteous in Church. In targeting the ‘protestors’ you’ve got the wrong enemy. And yes, I understand even more, why it may seem to you, a waste of time, and that nothing is being accomplished. But, you would be wrong. Because until more Americans are willing/able to get out of denial, and wake up to what is happening, as they’re being driven off the cliff, we will NOT be able to survive this.

If it were not for people like Cynthia McKinney, Cindy Sheehan, and a host of other very brave Americans who have been acting –from whatever position they COULD- none of us might ever even KNOW of the things that your husband has endured, because that’s been the whole point of this takeover. So, THIS is the support that you NEED, and it hasn’t been available for all that long.

When I first returned to academia, (4 years after my own LYNCHING) it was my biggest frustration and demon….my plea, my question to anybody who would hear me was…WHY ISN’T ANYBODY DOING ANYTHING? Are they BLIND? Do they not understand that THEY COULD BE NEXT? And yes, the ‘divisions’ had already begun.

Anyone who was against the war was ‘against the troops’. What BULLSHIT! We were very much in support of our troops. We KNEW what this was about, and we didn’t want them put in harms way, to satisfy the agenda of the Criminals in DC. And, you see what’s happened. We’ve been accused of treason, and being ‘unpatriotic’ and all the rest. When my oldest nephew graduated from high school, his childhood friend that he’d been in school with since kindergarten, went off to be in the military. His family was so proud, and my sister cried.

And…the divisions intensified. Long term and very dear friends of my own, had children of military age, and children and grandchildren who had been in the military in years before. They knew how opposed I was to this war, (before it even started) and they were brainwashed into believing that I was ‘against the military’. MORE bullshit. I told you earlier, 4 generations of my family have served proudly in the US military. My friend would send me mail, (Bible stuff) and then attach stuff like, “Now, if only Cindy Sheehan would stop spreading hate! My God, my God. Did they not UNDERSTAND?

Well, not in Texas, and that’s where she was – which is where I’d been, at the time of my own lynching. And so it put a division there…as I watched this whole thing grow bigger and bigger, pitting American against American, with very few of us understanding how this was happening. (divide and conquer) It put divisions in my own extended family. It was the ‘military community’ against the rest of us. Little did they know or understand, what was really going on. Yet, even now…many of them still cannot admit, (and that too is understandable) and I cannot (nor will I) ever play the “I told you so card”. It would be of very little value, and I don’t believe in rubbing salt in already open wounds.

TBC

Monica:  Kevin’s dilemma was specifically addressed by attorney Staughton Lynd on Democracy Now, Oct. 20, 2006.

“The concept of conscientious objection in American law and in the regulations of all the military services is that you must fulfill two requirements:  you must be opposed to war in any form—that is, to all wars—and you must do so on the basis of religious training and belief.  But a moment’s thought will suggest that there are not going to be too many objectors to all wars in a volunteer army.

“So what does Camilo Mejia or what does Kevin Benderman do, if they are in Iraq and they see around them what they can only consider war crimes?  How are they to find a way to resist?  And my point is that there is available to such persons our own Nuremberg precedent.  We hanged Germans and Japnaese leaders, because they engaged in war crimes in a particular war.  We said that orders from a superior are no excuse.  Well, the logic of those precedents is that a soldier in Iraq, or like Lieutenant Ehren Watada, under orders to be deployed to Iraq, can say, R