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Israel’s Toy Soldiers

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Posted on Oct 1, 2007
Marva participants
facebook.com

This photo of Marva participants was posted on the Facebook group “Marva best 2 months ever.”

By Chris Hedges

If you are a young Muslim American and head off to the Middle East for a spell in a fundamentalist “madrassa,” or religious school, Homeland Security will probably greet you at the airport when you return.  But if you are an American Jew and you join hundreds of teenagers from Europe and Mexico for an eight-week training course run by the Israel Defense Forces, you can post your picture wearing an Israeli army uniform and holding an automatic weapon on MySpace.

The Marva program, part summer camp part indoctrination, was launched in Israel in 1981.  It allows participants, who must be Jewish and between the ages of 18 and 28, to fire weapons, live in military barracks in the Negev desert and saunter around in an Israeli military uniform saluting and taking long hikes with military packs.  The Youth and Education Corps of the Israel Defense Forces run four 120-strong training sessions a year.   

“Upon arrival, the participants experience an abrupt change into army life: wearing uniforms, accepting army discipline, and learning the programs and lessons integral to the program,” the Let Israelis Show You Israel Web site reads.  “The program includes military content such as: navigation, field training, weapons training, shooting ranges, marches and more, as well as educational content such as: Zionism, Jewish Identity, history and knowledge of the land of Israel.  All of this is taught in Hebrew in an intensive eight weeks.”

“The participants finish the program after completing a short, intensive, exhilarating military experience that allows them to taste Israel in a way that they never could before—as part of the Israel Defense Forces,” the site reads.  “They leave the program with a feeling of belonging and a strong connection to Israel, and many return to Israel to continue the connection that was created in the framework of the Marva course.”

There are, of course, gushing testimonials about the program.

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“I spent the first few days of Marva doubting my decision, wondering why I had come, wondering if there was any way out.  With all of the running, yelling orders, discipline and Hebrew, I felt horribly out of place,” writes Canadian David Roth of his summer.  “It was a completely different world from the one I was used to.  All that changed, though, by the end of the first week.  We had our first ‘Masa’ (Hike).  It was very hard, but at the end, we all knew, our M16s were waiting for us at the ‘tekes’ (Ceremony).  We got through the 8 kilometers and had our ‘tekes’ and got our guns.  It felt amazing, and from that point on Marva was incredible.”

How have we reacted when we discovered that American Muslims were being taught in a foreign country to fire machine guns at paper figures and simulate military maneuvers?  And what about the summer schools in Gaza organized by Islamic Jihad designed to train young Palestinians in the basics of military life?  These Gaza camps, uncovered in 2001, were widely denounced by Israel as proof that the Palestinians were teaching their children to hate and kill.

The argument in favor of camps in Israel, as opposed to camps in Pakistan, is that these young men and women are not going to come back and use what they have learned to harm Americans.  They are not terrorists.  Muslims, however, have not cornered the market on terrorism and violence.  Radical Jews have also been involved in terrorist attacks in Israel and the United States.

I discovered an American in Israel in 1989 named Robert Manning.  A huge, burly man, Manning was living in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Kiyrat Arba.  When I found him he was carrying a pistol, a large knife strapped to his leg and an M-16 assault rifle.  He was part of a Jewish terrorist group called Committee for Protection and Safety of the Highways that set up ad hoc roadblocks and pulled Palestinians from cars to beat and often shoot them.  He was a follower of Meir Kahane, the leader of the Jewish Defense League, who was implicated in terrorist attacks in the United States and Israel.  Manning served as a reservist in the Israel Defense Forces in the West Bank. 

Manning was wanted in California for murder.  He had been charged in a 1980 mail-bomb killing as part of his involvement in the Jewish Defense League.  The bomb was intended for the owner of a local computer firm, but the package holding the device was opened by the firm’s secretary, Patricia Wilkerson, who was killed instantly by the blast. 

Manning, full of bluster and a bitter racism toward Arabs, used as his pseudonym the name of the FBI agent in charge of his case, a bit of humor that backfired on him by confirming my suspicion of his identify.  I obtained the picture from his California driver’s license and showed it to his neighbors at Kiyrat Arba.  They identified him from the photo.  I wrote an article affirming that Manning, heavily armed and an active member of the Israeli army, was living in a Jewish settlement.  The Israeli government, until that moment, said it had no information about his location.  He was extradited in 1993 and sentenced the next year to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 30 years.  He is in a maximum-security prison in Florence, Colo.

Those who go through the Marva summer program are indoctrinated as thoroughly as Muslims who go overseas and are told they are part of a greater jihad for Islam.  The results, given Israel’s close alliance with the United States, may not be negative for those in power in the United States, but it may be very negative for those Americans defined as the enemy, especially Muslims, should we suffer another 9/11.  The program inculcates hatred and a belief in the efficacy of violence to solve the problems in the Middle East.  It identifies Israel with militarism.  It feeds the idea that a Jew born in Brooklyn has a birthright to settle in Israel that is denied to an American of Palestinian descent. 

Jerusalem, aside from being one of the most beautiful cities in the world, is one of the most literate, creative and intellectual.  Do these young men and women really know the best of Israel by spending eight weeks playing soldier and glorifying the military?  Is the cause of Israel advanced by mirroring the twisted militarism of Islamic fundamentalists? 

Terrorists arise in all cultures, all nations and all religions.  We have produced more than our share.  Ask the people of Vietnam or Iraq.  The danger of a military program such as these is that it solidifies a mind-set of us and them.  It romanticizes violence.  It widens the divide that leads to conflict.  It makes dialogue impossible.  There are great Israeli institutions, from the newspaper Haaretz to the courageous Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem  to Peace Now.  A summer working for them, rather than wearing an army uniform, unleashing bursts of automatic fire in the desert and singing Israeli patriotic songs, might actually help.

 


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By alan winters, April 18, 2009 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is more than just a tiny, insignificant country in the Middle East.  President Obama and his cohorts have not learned that.  Israel is the bulkhead preventing Islamic floods from covering the earth.  Europe is already flooded with Islamic ideology.  Africa, many parts of Asia and the Americas are no strangers to Islamic violence, intolerance and obsessive hatred. 

Our US increasingly dictates, that Israel must adhere to the US’s plan for Middle East “peace,” otherwise America will withhold its support.  The US-Israel relationship is mutually beneficial.  The US as well as the rest of the world, needs Israel as a barrier against the Islamic fanaticism that threatens the Middle East and all civilization.

Iran acknowledges the importance of Israel, which accounts for Iran’s preoccupation with destroying this obstacle to controlling the region. Europe and now America’s obsequious response of to Iran’s continuing claims of destructive devices, excludes the choice of a military response.  Iran sees a bunch of cowards and indeed we have become that!  The world did not learn the important lesson of forceful preemption with the Iraqi Osirak reactor in 1981.

With his statements about not being at war with Islam, our President assures the terrorists that they may continue “diplomatic talks” while building their weapons of mass destruction.  It is ridiculous to assume that appeasement will have any effect other than to bolster the sinister intentions of those committed to our destruction.  To the Moslem, appeasement is recognized as weakness to be exploited.

Israel is the front line of the worldwide conflict against this enemy. Only Israel can decide what steps must be taken for its survival. Too many third party “advisors” are demanding that Israel follow some dictates.  For Israel to acquiesce to this foolishness would be devastating to the world

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By Robert, October 17, 2007 at 6:47 am Link to this comment

October 16, 2007

Follow the Leader

The Open Secret About the Israel Lobby

By PAUL FINDLEY

“There is an open secret in Washington. I learned it well during my 22-year tenure as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. All members swear to serve the interests of the United States, but there is an unwritten and overwhelming exception: The interests of one small foreign country almost always trump U.S. interests. That nation of course is Israel.

Both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue give priority to Israel over America. Those on Capitol Hill are pre-primed to roar approval for Israeli actions whether right or wrong, instead of at least fussing first and then caving. The White House sometimes puts up a modest and ineffective show of resistance before it follows Israel’s lead.

In 2002, President Bush publicly ordered Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon to end a bloody, destructive rampage through the Palestinian West Bank. He wilted just as publicly when he received curt word from Sharon that Israeli troops would not withdraw and would continue their military operations. A few days later President Bush invited Sharon to the White House where he saluted him as a “man of peace.”

I had similar experiences in the House of Representatives. On several occasions, colleagues told me privately that they admired what I was trying to do in Middle East policy reform but could not risk pro-Israel protest back home by supporting my positions.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/findley10162007.html

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By Robert, October 17, 2007 at 6:46 am Link to this comment

Richard Rose—-

The TRUTH about your “Nazi-Zionist” ideology and your IDF child killers must bring you and your ilk some very deep and penetrating pain!

We, the American People are slowly waking up to your Zionist AIPAC, mainstream news media’s deceptions!

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By RichardRose, October 16, 2007 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Boy this story’s comments have devolved by into mainly a propaganda campaign by two bigots, one named after a fart and one just Robert.

Alert to you two. Rational people have long left this story, why don’t you two go to a Nazi meeting or something.

I am on to the next story.

Richard

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By Robert, October 15, 2007 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

http://www.worldpeaceforum.ca/live/media/nurit-peled-elhanan-on-racism-and-education


Nurit Peled-Elhanan on Racism and Education
By Kitty Cresswell-Riol [June 27-2006]

VANCOUVER - In a session of the International Peace Education Conference at the World Peace Forum today,  Nurit Peled-Elhanan warned of racism embedded within educational textbooks distributed in Israeli schools.

Nurit, an Israeli lecturer in language and education at Hebrew University, was awarded the 2001 Sakharov Prize for Human Rights by the European Parliament.  But foremost,  she is a mother of a 13-year-old daughter killed by a Palestinian suicide bomber. She has also become an outspoken peace activist and member of the Families Forum, a group committed to stopping the war in the Middle East. Nurit sees education as the channel through which a culture of peace can be created.

Nurit’s presentation highlighted racism instilled within Israeli school literature against Palestinians and the way in which they are not shown as modern, productive human beings - only as stereotypical scarf-wearing Arabs, masked terrorists, or third world ‘Oxfam images’ and refugees.

She discussed how,  in educational literature,  the world outside Israel is described as split between Jews and non-Jews and that by generalizing the non-Jewish population of Israel and Palestine as “Arabs” and referring to their situation as “a problem,”  through photographs and text, they have been impersonalized and simplified.

As examples, Nurit presented maps, some of which leave Palestinian areas empty of geographical symbols as though they contain no data, historical or social, and illustrations of distorted facts to exaggerate particular points.

Nurit also discussed the use of materials in texts that distort records of massacres and consistently glorify Israeli troops. She noted the utilization of biblical phrases within geography textbooks to justify and legitimize Israeli occupation.

Nurit’s work remains controversial within Israel. She nevertheless, continues to lecture and has been invited to speak to the Israeli Ministry of Education in July.

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By Robert, October 15, 2007 at 5:34 am Link to this comment

#107082 by Robert on 10/14 at 5:26 pm
(456 comments total)

ILAN PAPPE, A BRAVE JEWISH ISRAELI HISTORIAN, TALKS ABOUT ISRAEL’S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF THE PALESTINIANS!

FANATIC HARDCORE ZIONISTS WILL NOT LIKE WHAT ILAN PAPPE HAS TO SAY ABOUT ISRAEL AND ITS RACISM!

George Galloway talks about Israel and Palestine with the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. 

Click on the links for a total sequence of 3 parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhfEWqBvav0&feature;=PlayList&p=F18C8A0CAA556AD6&index=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTk4FwkvFmo&feature;=PlayList&p=F18C8A0CAA556AD6&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQU_H1zclQk&feature;=PlayList&p=F18C8A0CAA556AD6&index=2

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By Brian S, October 14, 2007 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert,

Rural people worldwide can act with paranoia and unexpected rage.  This isn’t just Jews.  There are psycopaths, sociopaths, and lunatics in every human culture, and they tend to seek power, so they can be found in leadership roles at all levels of society.

But Islamic expansionism has been successful everywhere it has gone—no exceptions.  On the other hand, all religions are based on myth, legend, and folklore and mostly kept in place by power elites for the purpose of control. 

Of course, even if religion is banned, similar systems crop up, like Maoism, which again is just a method of central control over people’s minds.

Most of the Western religions have evolved a bit more, but take a look at any Islamic country.  There is no freedom and no liberty, and certainly no emancipation of women.  They are simply less evolved in some respects at this point in time.

But don’t be lulled—Robertson and Dobson are also dangerous—just not terrorists.  But some people in a parochial setting acting on herd instinct out of fear is actually pretty natural.

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By Robert, October 14, 2007 at 7:06 am Link to this comment

#106926 by Brian S on 10/13 at 11:44 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Robert, If you leave Israel alone, they’ll leave you alone.  I would live among Israelis any time rather than among Muslims—in any country.  Some experience poisoned you somewhere along life’s path, I think.

I guess Mr. Hitchens’ readership wasn’t as high as he liked, so he decided to lob a huge word grenade into the ether.  I promise you, Mr. Hitchens, that you’d be a lot more welcome in Israel than any Muslim country—being an atheist and all.  Jews are much more tolerant of people than Muslims.”

==============================================
Brian, S…You would just fit well into that “Racist Zionist” Israeli society…Just a take a first glimpse at your “tolerant” fanatic Jewish Zionists.

Swedish Human Rights worker viciously attacked by Israeli settlers.

They were confronted by 100 settlers in small groups, who started chanting in Hebrew “We killed Jesus, we’ll kill you too!”

Take a look at the horrifying bloody pictures/scenes & read the details of how brutal Zionism really is among the settlers/Israelis & the IDF, child killers.

May be you would prefer NOT to show this and others to Americans…You prefer to let things stay just as they are…Eh?

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=687

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By Brian S, October 14, 2007 at 12:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert, If you leave Israel alone, they’ll leave you alone.  I would live among Israelis any time rather than among Muslims—in any country.  Some experience poisoned you somewhere along life’s path, I think.

I guess Mr. Hitchens’ readership wasn’t as high as he liked, so he decided to lob a huge word grenade into the ether.  I promise you, Mr. Hitchens, that you’d be a lot more welcome in Israel than any Muslim country—being an atheist and all.  Jews are much more tolerant of people than Muslims.

Like the U.S., Israel occasionally does stupid stuff if a wingnut lands at the helm, but most of the time, if you just leave them alone and don’t kill a bunch of innocent people, they’ll both mostly leave you alone.  Not so with Islamic countries.  Try being a Christian, atheist, Buddhist, etc. and see how Islamists treat you.

Bob, my friend, you are missing the boat.

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By Robert, October 13, 2007 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment

Tony Blair “genuinely” shocked that world is round

Blair admits he is shocked by discrimination on the West Bank

10.13.2007 | The Independent
By Donald Macintyre in Hebron

While his aides munched tuna bagels thoughtfully provided by the Israeli military, a shirt-sleeved Tony Blair peered intently at a map showing the two main cargo crossing-points that will function between the West Bank and Israel once the 450-mile separation barrier between them is complete.

Why, Mr Blair wanted to know from his host, an Israeli general in civvies, couldn’t goods also be moved directly across the border from the nearby Palestinian industrial park that he is pressing Israel to approve?

“Why can’t they go straight through?” Ah, that would be difficult, the general explained, requiring a whole new expensive security apparatus to check goods going into the park.

We are a long from way from No 10. At Tarqumia to be precise, just inside the West Bank and one of those crossing points – a forbidding grey antenna and camera-studded complex of checkpoints still under construction. Mr Blair is on the road, grappling with the mind-numbing complexities of how the physical security infrastructure of the occupation has squeezed the Palestinian economy.

It is a theme reinforced for him in Hebron, the Palestinian city whose core was once the thriving commercial hub of the southern West Bank. Its mayor, Khaled Osaily, briefs him extensively about how much of its old city is boarded up, stripped of Palestinian life because of the presence of some 800 Jewish settlers, and their military protectors.

As Mr Blair’s convoy threads out of the city through the afternoon Ramadan traffic afterwards, Mr Osaily compliments Mr Blair on his thirst for facts. No, they had not talked much about the prospects for the forthcoming US-convened Annapolis conference on which hopes of any revival of a peace process have no been vested by the international community and in the preparations for which Mr Blair is intimately involved. “He is a practical man,” said Mr Osaily. “He asked many questions about daily life here. We talked about the economy, about movement, about security. He wanted to know details.”

Mr Blair gave the Israeli daily Yedhiot Ahronot his stock answer yesterday to questions about what he has learnt since taking the job. “I have learnt the depth of Israel’s concern for security, and I have learnt the depth of the Palestinians’ distress caused by the occupation.”

Certainly he accepts Israel’s view that Palestinians should not have a state until it can reasonably guarantee its neighbour’s security. Hence the importance he attaches to the efforts that US General Keith Dayton is making to beef up Palestinian security forces. Indeed he has been telling diplomats and others that the emergency Palestinian Prime Minister, Salam Fayad, does not enter Nablus because he will not make the deal with the militias needed to guarantee his security.

He was shocked by what he was told about conditions in Hebron and diplomats say he was genuinely taken aback by his trip to the West Bank sector of the Jordan Valley – where Palestinians are allowed to dig wells only a third as deep as Israelis – at the exploitation of resources by the rich Jewish agricultural settlements at the expense of closed in Palestinian farmers. And he has been privately dismissive – rather more so perhaps than he was as Prime Minister – of the argument by some Israelis that security comes first, with economics and a political deal well behind it. “All three have to happen together” he has told diplomats – which is what he sees Annapolis as being about. This week he has been concentrating on the economics and is pressing Israel to permit job growth in the West Bank’s Area C, where it has direct as well as total control – including a Japanese government plan for an “agro-industrial” park in the Jordan Valley.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=1256

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By Robert, October 13, 2007 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

ALWAYS the VICTIM: ISRAEL’S PRESENT WARS

By Tanya Reinhart

“It was possible for Israel to handle this incident as all its predecessors, with at most a local retaliation, or a prisoner exchange, or even better, with an attempt to solve this border dispute once and for all.”

“In the Israeli discourse, Israel has always been the innocent victim of vicious aggression from its neighbors. This perception of reality has only intensified with its two recent wars - against the Palestinians in Gaza and against Lebanon. On this view, in both cases Israel has manifested its good will - it ended the occupation of the Gaza strip in 2005, just as it ended the occupation of southern Lebanon in 2000. But, on this perception, the other side reciprocated with unprovoked rockets attacks on Israel. This world view was well summarized by Brigadier General Yosi Kuperwaser, who has just finished his term as head of the research division of the Israeli Military Intelligence: “I think the Palestinians themselves do not want the occupation to end. This is to understand why they are pursuing us with rockets from Gaza, where the occupation ended. What is this pursuit? An attempt to force us to shoot at them?” [1]


The Israeli army’s offensive in Gaza is not about the Israeli soldier captured there. As senior security analyst Alex Fishman widely reported, the army was preparing for an attack months earlier and was constantly pushing for it, with the goal of destroying the Hamas infrastructure and its government. The army initiated an escalation on 8 June when it assassinated Abu Samhadana, a senior appointee of the Hamas government, and intensified its shelling of civilians in the Gaza Strip. Governmental authorization for action on a larger scale was already given by 12 June, but it was postponed in the wake of a global reverberation caused by the killing of civilians in the air force bombing the next day. The abduction of the soldier released the safety-catch, and the operation began on 28 June with the destruction of infrastructure in Gaza and the mass detention of the Hamas leadership in the West Bank, which was also planned weeks in advance. [2]

As obvious in Kuperwaser’s words, the Israeli narrative is that when Israel evacuated its settlers from the Gaza Strip, it has also ended its occupation there and the Palestinians’ behavior therefore constitutes ingratitude. But there is nothing further from reality than this description. In fact, as was already stipulated in the Disengagement Plan, Gaza remained under complete Israeli military control, operating from outside. Israel prevented any possibility of economic independence for the Strip and from the very beginning; Israel did not implement a single one of the clauses of the agreement on border-crossings of November 2005. Israel simply substituted the expensive occupation of Gaza with a cheap occupation, one which in Israel’s view exempts it from the occupier’s responsibility to maintain the Strip, and from concern for the welfare and the lives of its close to a million and a half residents, as determined in the fourth Geneva Convention.

Israel does not need this piece of land, one of the most densely populated in the world, and lacking any natural resources. The problem is that one cannot let Gaza free, if one wants to keep the West Bank. A third of the occupied Palestinians live in the Gaza strip. If they were given freedom, they would become the center of the Palestinian struggle for liberation, with free access to the Western and Arab world. To control the West Bank, Israel needs full control of Gaza. The new form of control Israel has developed is turning the whole of the Strip into a prison camp completely sealed off from the world.”

(Tanya Reinhart was Professor Emeritus of Linguistics and Media Studies at Tel Aviv University and as of January 2007, a Global Distinguished Professor at NYU. Tanya Reinhart passed away earlier this year.)

http://www.stateofnature.org/alwaysTheVictim.html

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By Inherit The Wind, October 13, 2007 at 5:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert on 10/12 at 9:33 pm
(447 comments total)

ITZW…I am really laughing at your deranged fanatic behavior…you need some help badly! You are sly as a snake.

Go ahead and post another one of your zionist “fits” posts!

You think that you are clever and crafty. You did NOT divert the TOPIC at all!

You are just a plane ole FOOL.

********************

Still all sizzle and no steak, eh Abu?

Insults and name-calling, but no facts. 

You just REFUSE to address the West Bank enforced adherence to Islam (through violence and police intimidation), don’t you? I guess you keep evading it because you KNOW it shoots down everything you’ve claim.  Arab border towns in Israel were OFFERED the choice to be part of the Palestinian Authority—they chose to stay Israeli! This is why.

Evade, insult, accuse, evade.

You are a toy balloon: Remove the skin and there is nothing but stale hot air.

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By Robert, October 12, 2007 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

January 29, 2007

“We Are All Victims of the Occupation”

Let Our Children Live

By NURIT PELED-ELHANAN

“Bassam Aramin spent nine years in an Israeli prison. He belonged to Yasser Arafat’s Al Fatah in the Hebron area and attempted to throw a grenade at an Israeli army Jeep in occupied Hebron. Last Wednesday morning, an Israeli soldier in a jeep in his village of Anata, on the West Bank, shot his nine year old daughter, Abir, in the head. The soldier will not spend an hour in jail. In Israel, soldiers are not imprisoned for killing Arabs. Never. It does not matter whether the Arabs are young or old, real or potential terrorists, peaceful demonstrators or stone throwers. The army has not conducted an inquiry in Abir Aramin’s death. Neither the police nor the courts have questioned anyone. There will be no investigation. As far as the Israeli Defense Forces are concerned, the shooting did not happen. The army’s official account of her death is that she was hit by a stone that one of her classmates was throwing “at our forces.”

We who live in Israel know that stones thrown by 10 year olds do not blow brains out. Just as we see every day the Israeli jeeps circling Palestinian children on their way to and from school and greet them with stun-bombs, “rubber” bullets and riot control gas.

A bullet penetrated Abir Aramin’s skull, while she was walking to school with her sister. I saw her just afterwards at Hadassah Hospital, where she slept quietly in a huge hospital bed. Abir’s face was white. Her huge eyes were closed. By then, she was already brain dead, and the doctors decided to allow the rest of her to die. I saw clearly that her head had been shot from behind, and I will testify under oath to that fact. A young student who witnessed her shooting told journalists that the Israeli border police, who are part of the IDF, drove up to the girls as they came out of their school examinations. “The girls were afraid and started running away. The border police followed them in the direction in which they were retreating. Abir was afraid and stool against one of the shops at the side of the road. I was standing near her. The border policeman shot through a special hole in the window of his jeep that was standing very close to us. Abir fell to the ground I saw that she was bleeding from the head.”

Abir Aramin is dead. The doctors at Hadassah will not disclose the cause of her death to her parents or her friends. Her family has requested an autopsy. Her father, Bassam Aramin, is one of the founders of Combatants for Peace. My son, who served as an Israeli soldier in the occupied territories, is also a member. They are friends. Bassam told us that he cannot rest until his daughter’s killer convinces him that nine year old Abir threatened his life or the life of the other soldiers in his jeep. I fear he will never have the chance to rest.

Abir Aramin has joined the thousands of other children killed in this country and the territories it occupies. She will be welcomed by my own little girl, Smedar. Smedar was killed in 1997 by a suicide bomber. If her killer had survived, I know he would have been sent to prison for his crime.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/peled01292007.html

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By Robert, October 12, 2007 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment

ITZW…I am really laughing at your deranged fanatic behavior…you need some help badly! You are sly as a snake.

Go ahead and post another one of your zionist “fits” posts!

You think that you are clever and crafty. You did NOT divert the TOPIC at all!

You are just a plane ole FOOL.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, October 12, 2007 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert on 10/12 at 4:14 pm
(442 comments total)

Inherit The Zionist Wind(ITZW)...Your deranged comment made me laugh. ITZW, you are NOT fooling anyone here; your sneaky ways and habits are well known on truthdig. Your mind is severely “infected “with that evil zionism…just as Nurit Peled-Elhanan calls it “MIND INFECTION”.

ITZW…keep spewing your stupid frothy garbage. You sound like that other deranged zionist fanatic, lefty=ephraim/pesach. Check on him…he may be in the same psyche ward.

Happy trails…your head is forever locked in that zionist box!

Abu, your insults and curses cannot hide the FACT that you have NO answer to me.  Your beloved Palestinians what to create a Taliban dictatorship and YOU want to help them.  And you have NO answer to that because you KNOW it’s true.

How does objecting to Taliban tactics by the Palestinian police make me “sneaky”, “deranged” or filled with “frothy garbage”. 

Tell me, Abu, what the hell is SO great about another repressive Taliban Islamic regime.  You love it so much? YOU go live there!  Bet THEY won’t let you post on Truthdig.

In a week you’ll be DYING to get into Israel, and away from the new Taliban-niks weeping “Please, please, PLEASE let me in….I’m AMERICAN!”

If you’re lucky, the Israelis won’t know who you are, how you’ve called for their nation’s destruction and the “deserved” death of innocent women and children whose only crime was to be born Jews.  Because if they know who you are, they’ll say “Go back to your Al Fatah and Hamas friends! You are not welcome in Israel even if you ARE American.”  I’ll be happy to help them spot you for what your are—a sworn enemy of Israel.

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By Robert, October 12, 2007 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Zionist Wind(ITZW)...Your deranged comment made me laugh. ITZW, you are NOT fooling anyone here; your sneaky ways and habits are well known on truthdig. Your mind is severely “infected “with that evil zionism…just as Nurit Peled-Elhanan calls it “MIND INFECTION”.

ITZW…keep spewing your stupid frothy garbage. You sound like that other deranged zionist fanatic, lefty=ephraim/pesach. Check on him…he may be in the same psyche ward.

Happy trails…your head is forever locked in that zionist box!

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By Inherit The Wind, October 12, 2007 at 3:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert-Abu,
As usual, you are trying to change the subject from the uncomfortable TRUTH that the Palestinians aren’t interested in a secular, multi-ethnic society—they want a Taliban-run nation where strict conformity to rigid Islam is THE LAW.  And there is NO sin that a Palestinian can’t commit that you won’t excuse and say is fine—and there’s NOTHING a Jew can do that you won’t condemn as evil.

Your implication is a) that SOMEHOW, because NPR is reporting it, it’s not “true”, but you have no basis for that implication, and b) even if it is true (which it is) it’s OK—because the Likudniks might do the same. c) You CLAIM (with no basis) that the Israeli Police are doing the same thing as the Palestinian Morality Police.

Of course you can’t document c), and, of course, you are saying it’s FINE for the Palestinian Morality Police to beat people for violating Ramadan.

You can’t escape your own words, Abu.

You attack NPR because you have NO basis to challenge their story.  You are a nut who doubts NPR but believes paranoid racist Michael Rivero instead.

You have no credibility, because you are nothing but a tin-foil-hat paranoid anti-semite.

Go back to posting on “whatwefantasizehappened.com” with Michael Rivero

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By Robert, October 11, 2007 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment

Inherit The Zionist Wind…THIS ONE IS FOR YOU & YOUR ILK. DECEPTION IS A WAY OF LIFE FOR YOU. YOU ARE FULL OF HATE AND EVIL ZIONISM. YOU HAVE NO CHOICE! JUST KEEP HOWLING!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

N(ational)P(rostitute)R(adio) tries to get Carter to retract book’s title (wouldn’t its subscribers love it?) but he stands his ground

Jimmy Carter Defends ‘Peace Not Apartheid’

01.25.2007 | NPR.org

“Morning Edition, January 25, 2007 · Former President Jimmy Carter finds himself in a defensive posture after criticism of his new book Palestine Peace Not Apartheid. The best-seller has generated a passionate response in critics who say it is slanted toward Palestinians, and full of inaccuracies.

Since the book was published, Carter says he has been branded an anti-Semite and a bigot. Reaction to the book included the resignation of 14 members of a Carter Center community board, who say Carter puts too much blame on Israel.

Carter responded to those charges at Brandeis University this week, where he was later rebutted by Harvard Law School professor Alan Dershowitz.

In that appearance, the former president defended the book’s accuracy, save one passage Carter now calls “terribly worded,” that seemed to justify terrorism by Palestinians on Israeli citizens.

Carter says he was not completely surprised that his choice of the word “apartheid” in the book’s title garnered criticism.

Yet Carter says he hopes his book will raise awareness about conditions for Palestinians in the West Bank.

Here’s the conversation with Steve Inskeep in full:”

Click on link for the rest of the story:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=851
——————————————————————————-
ITZW…What do you think would happen to a Palestinian, Christian, Moslem if he were to been seen eating regular bread instead of “matza” while passing by a synagogue full of worshipers or one of the Ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods/section in Israel during the Jewish Passover?

What do you think the Israeli police or Jewish worshipers would do?

Hmmm….???

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By Inherit The Wind, October 11, 2007 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ZIONISM = RACISM/APARTHEID!

HUMAN RIGHTS AND EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL PEOPLE IS THE SOLUTION!

Here’s a FINE example of that which I’m sure Robert (the hypocrite) would approve of: Today, NPR, National Public Radio, reported that West Bank “Morality Police” are beating and arresting any seen violating Ramadan—eating, drinking, or smoking.

Now THAT’S “Human Rights”—the right to make DAMN sure no one DARES to violate the precepts of your religion!

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By Robert, October 11, 2007 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

#106269 by alan winters on 10/11 at 10:03 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Your moral equivalence is appalling.  Jews don’t teach hatred, intolerance and murder, whereas Arabs do.  That’s a big difference.  Guns can be used for murder (Arabs) or defense (Jews).
=============================================
a. winters…your post is a typical ignorant fanatic zionist post. How is that AIPAC/Zionism/Israel’s “Inetrnet Megaphone” working for you and your ilk?

“Apparently you were severely “Mind Infected” with your zionism=racism’s ideology. You have that severe zionism’s tunnel vision. Are you able to get your head out of that zionist box?

Take a look at what Dr. Nurit-Peled Elhanan, an Israeli professor, has to say about what Jewish kids are taught. She should know a lot more than you or me. And she does!
*****

Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan: Education Or Mind Infection?
Tuesday, 10 October 2006

Education Or Mind Infection?

(Speech given at Connecticut College, New London, CT)

All of you dead children were deceived, because your death has achieved nothing at all and the world goes on living as if your blood had never been shed. Because the leaders of the world keep playing their murderous games, using you as their dice and our grief as fuel for their killing machines. Because children are abstract entities for generals and grief is a political tool. Living at both sides, that of the victims and that of the killers, I keep asking myself, what are the means by which good Israeli children are turned into murdering monsters, what are the means by which they are so mind-infected as to kill and torture and humiliate other children, their parents and grandparents, and sacrifice their own life for nothing but the folly and megalomania of their chiefs? In the so-called Western enlightened world everyone feels very well-founded when they blame Islam for suicide bombing and terror. But who would ever blame Judaism for murder? And yet, Ulta Orthodox Jewish children who have never left Brooklyn know that to kill Arabs is a ‘mitzva’ (holy commandment) for they are ‘vilde hayeths’ (wild beasts). And Israeli children actually commit the crimes of slaughter and

torture. Neither Judaism nor Islam nor any religion for that matter are the cause for murder and terror. Racist education is. American imperialism is, and Israeli ruthless regime of occupation is. The women and children who suffer most from western violence today are Muslim women but racism has its way and the blame for their suffering is attributed to their being muslim.

The western world today is infected with fear of Islam and of the muslim womb. Great France of liberte egalite and fraternite is scared of little head-scarved girls, Jewish Israel calls in public speeches and schoolbooks the Arab citizens of Israel a demographic nightmare and the enemy from within. As for the Palestinians refugees living under occupation, they are defined in Israeli History schoolbooks as a ‘problem to be solved”. Not long ago the Jews were a problem to be solved.”


(Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan is a Lecturer in Language Education at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0610/S00129.htm

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By alan winters, October 11, 2007 at 11:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Your moral equivalence is appalling.  Jews don’t teach hatred, intolerance and murder, whereas Arabs do.  That’s a big difference.  Guns can be used for murder (Arabs) or defense (Jews).

Those who repeat the mindless mantra, zionism = racism, are displaying their abysmal ignorance or bigotry.  Now everyone knows that you don’t know your history or the truth.  If you kept your mouth or keyboard silent, then no one would know how ignorant you are.

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By Robert, October 11, 2007 at 6:30 am Link to this comment

#106133 by Brent W on 10/10 at 6:02 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“I’m not privy to the source of your raw hatred of Jews, but the statistics don’t exist to convince me that those following Judaism are somehow more deadly and destructive than Islamics.”
=========================================

Brent W….I am NOT anti-Judaism at all. I share the same views as Dr. Sara Roy’s views (see comment #106187) regarding what Judaism meant to her, her mother and father.

I am anti-Zionism and its racism. I was fortunate enough to have been able to visit “The Holy Land” with my wife and kids several years ago. We stayed there 9 weeks. We were able to visit the Israeli cities and the Palestinian towns, villages and much more. We saw how the Israelis lived and how the Palestinians lived under an oppressing Occupation.

If a person were a Jewish citizen, he/she was from the elite class. If a person were Christian/Moslem, he/she was a third and fourth class Israeli citizens.

Myself, wife and kids have seen the most horrific forms of racism practiced by the Israeli personnel/staff, IDF and others against Palestinian civilians. We saw it on a daily basis and were totally shocked by it. We saw it with our own eyes.

It is fortunate that we have many Jewish scholars, intellectuals like Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Sara Roy, Nurit Peled-Elhanan, Tanya Reinhart, Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, Uri Avnery, Jennifer Loewenstein, Raul Hilberg and many more…who are on the side of TRUTH, justice, fairness, tolerance, rescue, human rights, humanity and PEACE.

They are NOT on the side of Zionism’s ideology of racism, Apartheid, oppression, Occupation, ethnic cleansing. They are NOT on the side of Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir, Ariel Sharon, Ben Netanyahu, Ehud Olmert, Israel’s generals, Israel’s brutal IDF, fanatic zionist zealot’s Zionism.

There are extremists on both sides of the aisle. Everyone fights with their own abilities - the Israelis have US made helicopters, missiles, tanks, fighter jets, cluster bombs and carpet bombings and tens of thousands of the most sophisticated weapons…all the way to Nuclear weapons (WMD’s).

The Palestinian have some primitive home-made explosives, stones and themselves.

I do NOT support such actions or see this as the solution.

If one were to ask any Israeli to put himself in a similar situation of brutal occupation and oppression for over 40 years with their land, water resources, farms, olive groves being stolen and homes bulldozed in front of their eyes—everyone would do the same, including the current Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert.

ZIONISM = RACISM/APARTHEID!

HUMAN RIGHTS AND EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL PEOPLE IS THE SOLUTION!

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By Robert, October 11, 2007 at 4:01 am Link to this comment

“How Can Children of the Holocaust Do Such Things”

“A Jewish Plea”

By SARA ROY

April 7 / 8, 2007

“For my mother and father Judaism meant bearing witness, raging against injustice and refusing silence. It meant compassion, tolerance, and rescue. In the absence of these imperatives, they taught me, we cease to be Jews.

Many of the people, both Jewish and others, who writeabout Palestinians and Arabs fail to accept the fundamental humanity of the people they are writing about, a failing born of ignorance, fear and racism. Within the organized Jewish community especially, it has always been unacceptable to claim that Arabs, Palestinians especially, are like us, that they, too, possess an essential humanity and must be included within our moral boundaries, ceasing to be “a kind of solution,” a useful, hostile “other” to borrow from Edward Said. That any attempt at separation is artificial, an abstraction.”

“Why is it virtually mandatory among Jewish intellectuals to oppose racism, repression and injustice almost anywhere in the world and unacceptable—indeed, for some, an act of heresy—to oppose it when Israel is the oppressor, choosing concealment over exposure?”

“What are Jews now capable of resisting: tyranny? Oppression? Occupation? Injustice? We resist none of these things, no more.  For too many among us they are no longer but necessary and good-we cannot live, survive without them. What does that make us? We look at ourselves and what do we see: a non-Jew, a child, whose pain we inflict effortlessly, whose death is demanded and unquestioned, bearing validity and purpose.”
***************************************************

An outstanding article by Sara Roy and one that exposes her Judaism vs Zionism.

Here is the link to Sara Roy’s article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/roy04072007.html

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By Robert, October 11, 2007 at 3:38 am Link to this comment

IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS. EVEN WITH A THOUSAND WORDS, HOW CAN ONE DESCRIBE THE LOOK IN THE EYES OF A 13 YEAR OLD PALESTINIAN BOY BEING USED BY ISRAEL’S BRUTAL IDF AS A “HUMAN SHIELD” ?

THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS THAT THERE ARE SOME STORIES & TRUTH THAT CAN ONLY BE TOLD WITH PICTURES.

Take a look & read the TRUTH of this story:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=1018

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By Brent W, October 10, 2007 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert, people in military situations do all sorts of things we consider inhuman because they are operating based on orders they’ve been given and they are running on adrenaline.

You can point out all the horrific things that have been done by Jews to Palistinians, but it still doesn’t successfully Jews.  Jews don’t routinely stone women to death, kill their daughters who fall in love with non-Jews, mutilate their daughters’ and wives’ sex organs, blow themselves up where a lot of innocent people are likely to be wounded or killed, and so on.

As much evil as is done by Jews, you will not convince me that they are the bad guys in the Middle East conflict.  Muslims will never give up any of the property they successfully captured at any time in history.

I’m not privy to the source of your raw hatred of Jews, but the statistics don’t exist to convince me that those following Judaism are somehow more deadly and destructive than Islamics.  Islamics are slowly conquering the entire world, and the Jews are hanging on to a little patch of earth by their teeth.

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

“ONE OF THE FEW VIDEOS THAT GOT AWAY FROM THE ISRAELI CENSORS”

“It’s so tough being a NAZI”

“When CBC News spoke with Ismail Hawarjeh at Bethlehem’s hospital earlier this month, there was no way to verify the story he told about how his wife had died, until Israel’s Channel 2 broadcast the tape last weekend. The Palestinian school administrator said his wife Huda had been killed in their home by an Israeli tank shell during the army’s March 8 assault on the Aida refugee camp. The army wouldn’t comment and foreign journalist weren’t allowed inside the camp.

But the Israeli media were allowed to ride along with the soldiers, and they went right into the Hawarjeh home. An Israeli camera recorded the army blowing off the door, and found Huda Hawarjeh bleeding on the floor.

The pictures conformed to Ismail Hawarjeh’s story about his wife being hit by shrapnel in the front hallway of the house, and about the Israeli soldiers doing little to help her for one hour while she bled to death in front of her five children.

Finally, the soldiers allowed an ambulance to come to a nearby street, and soldiers helped Hawarjeh carry his wife to it. Doctors tried to revive her at the hospital but couldn’t.

Huda Hawarjeh was one of seven people to die in the Bethlehem area that day.

The Israeli army allows the media such close access on the understanding it can embargo anything it doesn’t want broadcast.

The tapes of the assault on the Hawarjeh home fell into that category. But Channel 2 broke the embargo anyway.

The army, government and many Israeli citizens didn’t like what they saw.

Channel 2 showed Hawarjeh begging soldiers to allow an ambulance through. The camera captured the terror of the woman’s daughter, and her brother’s attempt to stop her from showing the soldiers her fear.”
==================================================

SO LONG AS “NO FOREIGN JOURNALISTS” ARE ALLOWED TO RECORD ISRAEL’S IDF SOLDIERS TERROR CRIMES, THEN ALL MUST BE OK WITH THE KILLINGS OF INNOCENT PALESTINIAN WOMEN & CHILDREN. NO ONE CAN FIND OUT ABOUT & NO ONE CAN PROVE IT!

Here is the link to Israel’s IDF soldiers inflicting terror & murder on un-armed Palestinian civilians.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=897

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

Pre-Packaged Opinions on Israel and Palestine
Jeffrey Goldberg’s Prison

By NORMAN FINKELSTEIN 10/6/07

“Goldberg also alludes to Israeli prisons which had a meaner reputation than Ketziot such as Dahariya and Gaza Beach camp (Ansar Two). It is instructive to juxtapose Goldberg’s description of Gaza Beach camp (Rafiq had been held there before Ketziot) with that of an Israeli journalist, Ari Shavit, who served there:

Goldberg: Here is where young Palestinians were assimilated into the apparatus of occupation, where the Shabak extracted from the Arabs what they could and then trucked them to the desert. The policy of Ansar Two was consistent: Prisoners being prepped for interrogation were made to stand on the basketball court under the sun for four, or five, or six hours. They were forced to raise their arms, and they were not allowed to sit, or drink. When Rafiq’s arms dropped from exhaustion, he was struck.Rafiq was smacked around a bit [during interrogation].

Shavit: Most Palestinians are awaiting trial; most were arrested because they were throwing stones or were said to be members of illegal organizations. Many are in their teens. Among them, here and there, are some boys who are small and appear to be very young.The prison has twelve guard towers. Some Israeli soldiers are struck—and deeply shaken—by the similarity between these and certain other towers, about which they have learned at school. The unjust analogy with those other camps of fifty years ago won’t ago away.And I, too, who have always abhorred this analogy, who have always argued bitterly with anyone who so much as hints at it, I can no longer stop myself. The associations are too strong.Like a believer whose faith is cracking, I go over and over again in my mind the long list of arguments, the list of differences.But then I realize that the problem is not in the similarity-for no one can seriously think that there is a real similarity-but that there isn’t enough lack of similarity. The problem is that the lack of similarity isn’t strong enough to silence once and for all the evil echoes, the accusing images. Maybe the Shin Bet [Shabak] is to blame for this—for the arrests it makes and what it does to those arrested. For almost every night, after it has managed, in its interrogations, to “break” a certain number of young men, the Shin Bet delivers to the [soldiers] a list with the names of the friends of the young men. Then the soldiers go out almost every night to the city and come back with children of fifteen or sixteen years of age. The children grit their teeth. Their eyes bulge from their sockets. In not a few cases they have already been beaten.And soldiers crowd together in the “reception room” to look at them when they undress. To look at them in their underwear, to look at them as they tremble with fear. And sometimes they kick them—one kick more, before they put on their new prison clothes….Or maybe the doctor is to blame.

You wake him up in the middle of the night to treat one of those just brought in—a young man, barefoot, wounded, who looks as if he’s having an epileptic fit, who tells you that they beat him just now on the back and the stomach and over the heart. There are ugly red marks all over his body. The doctor turns to the young man and shouts at him. In a loud, raging voice he says: May you die! And then he turns to me with a laugh: May they all die! Or maybe the screams are to blame. At the end of the watch, you sometimes hear horrible screams from the other side of the fence of the interrogation section,hair-raising human screams. Literally hair-raising.In Gaza our General Security Services [Shabak] therefore amount to a Secret Police, our internment facilities are cleanly run Gulags. Our soldiers are jailers, our interrogators torturers. In Gaza it’s all straightforward and clear. There’s no place to hide.

http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein10062007.html

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By Inherit The Wind, October 10, 2007 at 10:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Next, Robert will be citing George Lincoln Rockwell as an authority.

And claiming I won’t accept “the Truth”!

Slackman69 is his crony in this.

Here’s the Truth: George Lincoln Rockwell is dead. And I don’t miss him.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 10, 2007 at 9:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ITZW…YOU ARE GETTING AWFULLY DESPERATE, BUT YOUR ZIONIST-NAZI WAYS AND LIES JUST WON’T WORK AND CANNOT STAND UP AGAINST THE “TRUTH”!

Michael Rivero is the “TRUTH”????  No wonder you can’t think straight.

The truth is you hate Jews, hate Israel, and will find ANY excuse and any propaganda to support that absurd hatred, even if you have to make it up, or use “information” that is clearly forged.

Your mind is closed.  No fact in the world will open it. And nothing useful comes out.

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

Visit http://www.giyus.org/ to see how “they” do it.  I attribute a lot of the last few pro Israel-Zionist comments on this and other blogs by unregistered commenters by this very useful Zionism/AIPAC/Israel’s organizational tool.

ITS ISRAEL/ZIONISM’S PROPAGANDA “INTERNET MEGAPHONE”!

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 5:00 am Link to this comment

B’TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights HUMAN RIGHTS in the Occupied Territories.

Fatalities

Click on the numbers for a list of individual names and details about the circumstances of their death.
29.9.2000-30.9.2007
 
Occupied Territories
 
Israel
Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces
  4204   63
Palestinians killed by Israeli civilians
  41  
Israeli civilians killed by Palestinians
  233   471
Israeli security force personnel killed by Palestinians
  234   87
Foreign citizens killed by Palestinians
  17   36
Foreign citizens killed by Israeli security forces
  10  
Palestinians killed by Palestinians
  541  


Additional data (included in previous table)
  Occupied Territories  
Israel
Palestinian minors killed by Israeli security forces
  858   3
Israeli minors killed by Palestinians
  39   80
Palestinians killed during the course of a targeted killing
 
367
 
Palestinians who were the object of a targeted killing
  218  
Palestinians killed by Palestinians for suspected collaboration with Israel
  120  
Palestinians who took part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces
  1359   55
Palestinians who did not take part in the hostilities and were killed by Israeli security forces ( not including the objects of targeted killings).
  2023   5
Palestinians who were killed by Israeli security forces and it is not known if they were taking part in the hostilities
  603   3

Notes:

  1. The data may change due to ongoing research, which produces new information about the events .
  2. The figures do not include :

  * Palestinians who died after medical treatment was delayed due to restrictions of movement .
  * Palestinians killed by an explosive device that they set or was on their person .
  * 12 Palestinian citizens of Israel killed within Israel by the Israeli Police in October 2000 .
  * One Jewish Israeli citizen killed within Israel by a Palestinian-Israeli citizen in October 2000 .
  * Two Jewish Israeli citizens and One member of the Israeli security forces, killed by a Palestinian citizen of Israel in Nahariya in September 2001 .
  * Four Palestinian-citizens of Israel killed by IDF gunfire in the Territories .
  * One Palestinian-citizen of Israel killed by Border Police gunfire within Israel in July 2003 .
  * Five Palestinian citizens of Israel killed by an absconded IDF soldier on a bus in Shfar’am, within Israel , in August 2005 and the shooting soldier, beaten to death by Palestinian-citizens of Israel.
  * Seven members of the Ghaliya family (the two parents and their five children, one an adult), who were killed in June 2006 in an explosion on the coast by Beit Lahiya, in the northern Gaza Strip. The cause of the explosion remains unclear.
  * One Palestinian resident of a-Sheikh Sa’ed was killed on May 2007 during a fire exchange between Palestinian militants and Israeli policemen at the a-Sheikh Sa’ed checkpoint in East Jerusalem.
  * One Twelve-year-old Israeli child who, in August 2007 while on a family visit in the village of Saida in Tulkarm district, was killed by undercover troops who had come to arrest his brother and his brother’s friend, who were wanted by Israel.
  * One Israeli citizen from Kfar Qana, who was killed in August 2007 in the Old City in East Jerusalem after he grabbed a security guard’s weapon.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties.asp

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 4:44 am Link to this comment

#105848 by Inherit The Wind on 10/09 at 12:45 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Statistics

Number of sources Robert has cited that were biased, propagandistic, or openly anti-Semitic: 100%

Number of legitimate, mainstream sources with verifiable information that Robert has cited: 0%

(Typically, Robert would have you think that Michael Rivero’s pschotically paranoid, anti-semitic, tin-foil-hat whatreallyhappened.com is a source to be taken seriously. All of Robert’s sources are the same kind of useless propaganda.)
=================================================

Inherit The Zionist Wind (ITZW)...Your above post is your typical fanatical “zionist” side-tracking tactic.Its just about the same-ole crap that you have been posting on truthdig. Its your same same-ole Zionist / AIPAC propaganda methods… ‘anti-semitic, holocaust, Hitler, neo-nazi, Jew haters…and so on.

ITZW…YOUR ZIONIST-NAZI ISRAEL HAS COMMITTED THE WORST CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. ITS BRUTAL NAZI IDF ARE CHILD MURDERERS. WHY DON’T YOU TELL US THE GIDEON LEVY IS A SELF-HATING JEW AND IS A LIAR?

ITZW…YOU ARE GETTING AWFULLY DESPERATE, BUT YOUR ZIONIST-NAZI WAYS AND LIES JUST WON’T WORK AND CANNOT STAND UP AGAINST THE “TRUTH”!

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By Robert, October 10, 2007 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

Mohammed al-Dura lives on

07/10/2007 By Gideon Levy

The concern Israel demonstrates for the fate of one Palestinian boy touches the heart: Again, note what a fuss is being made about the case of the killing of Mohammed al-Dura. Our heart is impervious to the fate of other children who have been killed.

All of these are tasteless questions designed to divert attention from the truly important issues: According to data collected by human rights group B’Tselem, Israel is responsible for killing more than 850 Palestinian children and teenagers since al-Dura was killed, including 92 in the past year alone. Last October, we killed 31 children in Gaza. This is what should have raised a storm and not the measurements by the former head of the Israel Defense Forces’ Southern Command.

Al-Dura refuses to step down from the stage because he has become an icon of the Palestinian struggle and a symbol of Israeli brutality. A thousand Nahum Shahafs will not succeed in blurring the unequivocal fact that a scandalous killing of children is taking place in the territories.

Even if the director of the Government Press Office, Danny Seaman, is right in determining that the film made by the reliable and experienced French journalist Charles Enderlin was “staged,” and even if he succeeds in clearing Israel from responsibility for this killing, what will we say about the other children who have been killed? That their killing was also “staged?” That the IDF did not kill them through carelessness and contempt for their lives; by being trigger-happy and even acting with premeditation? If Israel were really interested in improving its “public relations,” it would embrace the al-Dura family instead of all the foolish investigations. It would provide compensation to the family and show the world that it is truly and sincerely sorry about the death of one child.

The question of who killed al-Dura is like the question of what Joseph Trumpeldor mumbled before his death. The myth in both cases is already stronger than any investigation. Al-Dura became a symbol because his killing was documented on videotape. All the other hundreds of children were killed without cameras present, so no one is interested in their fate. If there had been a camera in Bushara Barjis’ room in the Jenin refugee camp while she was studying for a pre-matriculation test, we would have a film showing an IDF sniper firing a bullet at her head. If there had been a photographer near Jamal Jabaji from the Askar camp, we would see soldiers emerging from an armored jeep and aiming their weapons at the head of a child who threw stones at them. But these children did not become symbols; there are no stamps bearing their portraits, no streets named after them and no songs composed for them as with al-Dura because they were not filmed at the time of their deaths.

Al-Dura became a symbol because every struggle needs a symbol, a shrine for the masses of dead and the anonymous heroes. The assumption that the IDF soldiers firing at Palestinians at the Netzarim junction killed the boy cradled in his father’s arms exactly seven years ago is the most reasonable one. As far as we can remember, there has been no other case in which Palestinians fired at the IDF and hit a Palestinian child.

But even if there is some doubt, it is certain that the IDF has killed and is killing children. So this ridiculous focus on who killed al-Dura, a question that will never be resolved, is no more than a tempest in a putrid teapot. There should be a tempest, a great and mighty one, but one focused on an entirely different issue: Why is the IDF continuing to kill children at such a frightening pace, and why doesn’t Israel take responsibility for this and compensate the families of those killed? But no one is conducting “investigations” about this.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=1253

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By Claire M, October 9, 2007 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I generally agree with your conclusions, but not this time.  Islam is presented as a “civilization alternative” by the Muslim Brotherhood, and Bin Laden compared Islam to capitalism—not to any “religion” in the Western sense.  In fact, Islamics have taken credit for voting as a bloc in the 2000 elections and potentially pushing Bush into power in Florida, according to the American Muslim Political Coordination Council.  That organization also noted that Muslims will gain political power in the U.S. due to “birth, immigration, and reversion to Islam.”

Even when “moderate,” Islam is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution, and if Muslims gain enough power, they will replace it with Sharia.  So any comparison of Muslims with guns to Jews with guns is like comparing apples and oranges.

Try being an atheist with Muslims in control.

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By Georgia Littleton, October 9, 2007 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is one glaring difference between young American Jews joining such a programme and young Palestinians going to training camps. Palestinians are training for Jihad, which involves murder of innocent people.

Non Credo so just because American kids go to a summer camp and train with the IDF they are being militarily traitorous? Get over yourself. Tell me something - how do you view Muslims going to Pakistan to be Jihadis?

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By RichardRose, October 9, 2007 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Equating Islamic training in terrorism, with Jewish training as military members to help protect there territory is just wrong. Does this writer have hate in his heart or is he just failing to understand the big picture? Its an apples to oranges comparison. Now if he compared it to Muslims training for duty in Saudi’s army it would be apples to apples.

Here is what the media will NEVER tell you. To the Muslims ANY land that was once Muslim is forever Moslem’s, this applies to Israel, as well and equally as it does to France and Spain etc. Israel gets all the attention due to media bias and the proximity the Jewish nation has to the Muslim’s countrys.

But lets pretend Islam was to conquer Israel, they would be hot on the trail to Spain and France, suddenly that would be Palestinian or some such made up group’s land also or so they would claim.

Islam teaches they must rule the world and that is what the so called terrorists are fighting for, political control.  But according to Quran they must invite you to Islam before killing you. Thus the bin Ladin calls for Americans to revert to Islam.

Now is the picture clearer to you?

Richard

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By Inherit The Wind, October 9, 2007 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Statistics

Number of sources Robert has cited that were biased, propagandistic, or openly anti-Semitic: 100%

Number of legitimate, mainstream sources with verifiable information that Robert has cited: 0%

(Typically, Robert would have you think that Michael Rivero’s pschotically paranoid, anti-semitic, tin-foil-hat whatreallyhappened.com is a source to be taken seriously. All of Robert’s sources are the same kind of useless propaganda.)

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By IMPACT, October 9, 2007 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have read many articles ,many books on history but that doesnt make me a historian,i am not a devout religon beliver,but say the jews arent a race of people is similar as saying the arabs arent a race,but unlike the arabs or the chrisitans ,jews have been single out for special action ,since before the romans, nebucanezer and even before him
the jews are a enigma, the belife system has never been broken their devotion is probally unbreakable,

the difference is i belive they are a survivalist race,expert at suviving all that be fell them,,we should learn from them,they arent weak any longer they are military strong highly motivated and have probally the worlds finest airforce and special forces,who have been in constant action since 1948
till present day, they like their arab cousins are a learned people,but unlike thee arab race,dont need to kill in the name of their god,it seems their god is perfectly caperbul of killing their enemys off and have done so for thousands of years..arab and palestian supporters have liken thier policys to those of nazi germany,but the christians have a lot to answer for 2000 years of bitter hate,the muslim world is catching up fast because 90% of western europe and the usa hate the arab world more then ever before..even the russians are merely tolerant of islamic states as nebours,a 9/11 style assault on russia then no doubt even they wil no longer result to veto un resolutions in favor of the israeli’s

just an opion

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By James Hippolite, October 9, 2007 at 11:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no moral equivalence: Jewish youth volunteering for military service in defence of their people is completely different from Islamic youth being indoctrinated to hate and kill ALL infidels.

Islam hates Israel for this simple reason: its existance (in spite of heavy resistance and in fulfilment of prophecy) proves YHWH is not Allah.

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By Robert, October 9, 2007 at 7:10 am Link to this comment

Statistics

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the world’s major sources of instability. Americans are directly connected to this conflict, and increasingly imperiled by its devastation.

It is the goal of If Americans Knew to provide full and accurate information on this critical issue, and on our power – and duty – to bring a resolution.

Below are charts of nine little-known statistics.
Please click on any statistic for the source and more information.

Statistics Last Updated: September 19, 2007

Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed Since September 29, 2000

118 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 952 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
 
Israelis and Palestinians Killed Since September 29, 2000

1,024 Israelis and at least 4,274 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Source)

Israelis and Palestinians Injured Since September 29, 2000

7,633 Israelis and 31,531 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
 
Daily U.S. Aid to Israel and the Palestinians

The U.S. gives more than $7,023,288 per day to the Israeli government and military and gives no money to the Palestinians. (View Source)

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (View Source)
 
Political Prisoners and Detainees

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Source)

Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000. (View Source)
=========================================
See charts, statistics and details; click on link/URL:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org

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By Jason B., October 9, 2007 at 5:51 am Link to this comment
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There is absolutely no moral comparison between Jewish teens volunteering on IDF programs and Muslim youths training to become terrorists.  To believe otherwise is simply ignorance of the facts.

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By fred, October 9, 2007 at 5:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a load of rubbish.
We should all do 2 years in the army, or some part thereof.
Long live Israel and Jerusalem its undivided capital.

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By Some1, October 9, 2007 at 3:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why aren’t you including a similar recommendation that Muslim youngsters participating in terror summer camps ought to go to human rights projects instead?  is it because you know that no such things exist in the Palestinian nation and you are wishfully repressing this knowledge, or is it because you don’t mind Muslim ‘freedom fighters’, only Jewish ones? which? and doesn’t it strike you that the latest Jewish terrorist example you could find to prove your delusional “no us and them” paradigm dates back to the eighties?

I haven’t seen a single even handed protest of those whining about the summer activities of Jewish youngsters, even though they (the Jews) aren’t been made to jump through fiery hoops while singing death to the enemy, as their Muslim comrades are. Apparently that last is less worrying to the Left.

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By Paul Glass, October 9, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How can you compare Jewish teens volunteering on IDF programs and Muslim youths training to become terrorists.

The former is comparable to, for example, South Africans volunteering to serve in the British Armed Services ie soldiers being trained to prtotect their countries and its citizens

The latter are being taught to be terrorists to shed innocent blood in the pursuit of misguided fundamentalist ideals

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By Robert, October 8, 2007 at 12:17 pm Link to this comment

Dissenting at your own risk
By CECILIE SURASKY
Special to the Star-Telegram

“Last year, I agreed to speak to a Jewish youth group about my organization, Jewish Voice for Peace, and our opposition to Israel’s occupation. My talk was to follow one from a member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which calls itself “America’s pro-Israel Lobby.”

A week before, a shaken program leader said the AIPAC staffer had threatened to get the entire youth program’s funding canceled if I was allowed in the door. The threat worked, and in disgust, they canceled the whole talk.

Pundits will surely argue for years about professors Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer’s explosive new book, The Israel Lobby, which blames poor U.S. policy in the Middle East on a loose network of individuals and pro-Israel advocacy groups.

But the book, and the response to it, opens up another controversy: the stifling of debate about unconditional U.S. support for Israeli policies.

Why is Israel’s increasingly brutal 40-year occupation of Palestinian land regularly debated in the mainstream media abroad, including in Israel, but not here? And why is there an almost total lack of discussion among presidential candidates about the dollars that subsidize this occupation and the American diplomatic support that makes it possible?

In a society built on the free exchange of ideas, as Walt and Mearsheimer point out, one answer can be found by looking at the many self-appointed gatekeepers, such as Abraham Foxman and the Anti-Defamation League, or Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who use their Jewish identity as both a shield and cudgel. They work diligently to silence those who question ill-conceived policies of the Israeli and U.S. governments.

Non-Jewish critics, even former President Carter, are denounced as anti-Semites. Special ire is reserved for Jewish dissenters, who are branded as “self-hating” or “marginal,” while Muslim and Arab-Americans are easily smeared and even criminalized with charges of supporting terrorism.

Stunned by the stifling of dissent, we decided to start a Web site, Muzzlewatch, to track the incidents. Just as we launched, Stanford Middle East Studies Professor Joel Beinin was disinvited from a speaking engagement at a high school with just 24 hours’ notice.

After an unprecedented campaign of outside interference waged by Dershowitz, Professor Norman Finkelstein was refused tenure by DePaul University because of his criticism of U.S.-Israeli policy. Palestinian-American anthropologist Nadia Abu El-Haj is fighting a political campaign to deny her tenure at Barnard.

Even Walt and Mearsheimer, who are getting plenty of exposure, couldn’t have asked for better proof of their point that the lobby works to stifle dissent when an embarrassed head of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs told them that their scheduled speech was canceled. (They did speak before the World Affairs Council of Dallas/Fort Worth on Sept. 17.) This was apparently because Foxman was not available that day to “balance” their talk.

(They had initially been booked by themselves. The talk was not rescheduled.)

Many groups that started with the important work of fighting real anti-Semitism now rely on anti-Semitism to insist that to show one’s love of Jews, one must offer uncritical support to Israel. They are especially displeased by Jews who believe that enabling Israeli violations of Palestinian human rights is not good for anyone.

Unless this atmosphere of intimidation is confronted, Americans will continue to lack access to information and perspectives necessary to formulate effective Middle East policies, virtually ensuring that Israel and the United States will be at war for many years to come.”

‘The Israel Lobby’

http://podcast.dfwworld.org/2007_09-17_The_Israel_Lobby.MP3
(Cecilie Surasky is communications director for the Oakland-based Jewish Voice for Peace.)

http://www.star-telegram.com/245/story/255318.html

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By Inherit The Wind, October 7, 2007 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Is there a more obvious Holocaust denial nazi than Baker41?

This piece of shit spews out everyone of the neo-nazi lies and distortions about the Holocaust. 

None of it’s new—it’s the same lying bullshit they’ve been spewing for the last 10-20 years.

“poorly documented event”

There isn’t a crime in history that’s as well-documented.  The Nazis were METICULOUS record keepers of who was deported, where, when they died, how they died, what equipment was used, when it was installed, who built it, where it was built, when and how it was shipped to the death camps, how much was paid, etc. etc. etc.  It was a GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATIC function in a society known for being the most meticulous for that.  There are literally 10’s of millions of documents, warehouses and warehouses full.  The problem for REAL scholars is getting a handle on just how VAST the documentary record is.

“poorly documented”? The ARROGANCE of assuming that people are SO stupid and naive as to believe that is unbelievable.

Go back to your red neck hole-in-the-woods.  That home-made moonshine you been drinking has got some BAD stuff in it that rotted your brain!  Lucky it didn’t make you go blind.

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By vos, October 7, 2007 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

Not quite the same thing—we are not at war with Israel and they are not hostile to us.  I am sure you could go to your country of origin and participate in a government sponsored program like that so long as that country is not viewed by our government officials as being hostile to us.  For example, I think the government may have problem if you went to Russia to do this but probably not Japan. 
That all being said, I think we have gone out of our way to accomodate Israel.  This administration in particular seems hell bent on justifying anyrhing that Israel does.  I believe we should help protect Israel.  Being our friend should have benefits, but not to the point where it is absurd.  We should be able to critisize Israel in public like we would any other government.  The people that concern me are people like Joe Lieberman, whom one might wonder which government he is working for.

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By Mike W, October 7, 2007 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

Is Baker41 a scientific name given to another infectious disease that is transmitted by lice and fleas?

The Baker here needs to get a flea collar to control the spread of his “disease”. An unregistered guest sometimes is a good sign of a person who likes to troll around and spread his own unhappiness with hopes of gaining company.
Regardless, I will still comment his/her points.


I see insensitiveness in your words because you never denounce Hitler/Germany for the horrible acts committed to entire populations of innocent people. Your possible hatred of Jews clouds your logic that the people were dying in concentration camps due to the fact that their countries were invaded and they were placed in those horrible conditions. You seem to also blame fleas, lice and disease on most of the deaths instead of blaming those who crammed them into the trains and camps and who removed them from their homes and food supply, clean water and sanitary conditions. You paint the picture that the Germans placed these people in these camps to protect themselves from future attack and even mentioned that at a certain point of the war, they could not even feed themselves. If this were all true, how would you explain that these camps were also used as slave labor? Your explanation of the situation does not seem to explain or bear truth the fact that as the Allies approached, some of the camps were dismantled and the prisoners were forced to march in the cold and snow and fell to die or were shot if they slowed down. This does not seem to be actions of helpless German soldiers who would feed and help these poor prisoners if only they could.

As much as I hate to do, I will still acknowledge your points regarding that horrible actions occurred to all people during the war. The Jewish people and others put their ill fate above all the other atrocities from that war. Just to name a couple of examples to support your point on this:

The Polish death camp Majdanek was the first to be liberated by the Soviet soldiers who found very few prisoners alive, but did find 800,000 pairs of shoes.

Let’s not just pick on the Germans:

The Bataan Death March in the Philippines killed more than 5000 Americans. At the end of the march, the remaining 10,000 Americans and 45,000 Filipinos were imprisoned at Camp O’Donnell where hundreds died per day. The most common methods of execution were beheading and bayoneting (by the Japanese).

Your conclusion mentions that the truth will emerge in time. The truth has emerged already. Germany, possible Jews and other countries, wanted or contributed to the continuation of World War I (though not all entire populations but some leaders in powerful positions). Some nations have now thrown down their weapons and wish to live in peace. Others want to continue the fight into the future and thus cause World War III. I have no sympathy for those who want to continue the fight but it is unfortunate that others and innocents are always pulled into the struggle.

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By baker41, October 6, 2007 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There are no deniers of the holocaust.  But there are plenty of individuals who question the numbers of Jews who died during the war and how they died etc. 
Ask yourself, why questioning any historical event constitutes a crime that in many European countries carries a stiff sentence? And particularly why is it a crime to question such a poorly documented event as the so called haul cost?  To my knowledge, no one has ever said that lots of Jews did not die WW2, but so did many other people.  To hear Jews tell it, they were practically the only victims of the war. But then Jews have always thrived on presenting themselves as the victim.  Most, if not all of the bodies that the Allies found when they entered Germany in 1945 were Jews (and several other minorities) who had died from a typhus epidemic (carried and spread by body lice) that had swept through Germany during the later months of the war. At that stage of the war, due to round the clock Allie bombing raids, there was no sanitation to speak of, and very little food.  The Germans could barely feed and take care of themselves, much less thousands of Jews who were in concentration camps.  There was never any “gassing of Jews”.  The gas chambers were there for the purpose of de-lousing the cloths of Jews (and thus prevent the further spread of typhus)who had came into the concentration camps, primarily by train. Germany did not have the manpower, time, or the resources to gas Jews or anyone else. There is simply no proof that gas chambers ever existed, other than for sanitation purposes (as stated above). If you were to do a time study, you would find that it would have been virtually impossible for the Germans to have gassed and burned as many victims as Jews today would have you believe.  Hitler had put the Jews in concentration camps for the same reason Franklin Roosevelt had put Japanese/Americans in concentration camps, which was to prevent them from sabotaging the nation during war time.  Actually Roosevelt had far less reason for his actions than Hitler. Hitler had fought in WW 1 and had seen first hand how Jews had undermined Germany by fomenting a Communist revolution among the German workers while Germany was at war.  It is a fact that truth and statistics can be suppressed for a long time, but the truth will eventually emerge.

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By Robert, October 6, 2007 at 7:40 pm Link to this comment

ISRAELI JEWISH TERRORISTS WANTED BY THE BRITISH

THE PALESTINE POLICE FORCE
___________________________

    WANTED!

TAKE A LOOK AT THESE PHOTOS AND SEE IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY TWO WELL KNOWN ISRAELI JEWISH TERRORISTS:

MENACHEM BEGIN AND YITZHAK SHAMIR.

ISRAEL HAD 4 PRIME- MINISTERS WHO WERE HARD CORE TERRORISTS. THEY BELONGED TO THE IRGUN, STERN GANG AND THE HAGANA.

1) BEN-GURION
2) MENACHEM BEGIN
3) YITZHAK SHAMIR
4) ARIEL SHARON

THESE BRUTAL ZIONIST TERRORISTS HAVE KILLED MANY INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN. THEY WERE INVOLVED IN BLOODY MASSACRES OF MANY PALESTINIAN VILLAGES, TOWNS AND REFUGEE CAMPS.

THEY CERTAINLY HAD NO PROBLEMS IN VISITING THE WHITE HOUSE, CONGRESS, US SENATE AND RECEIVING A 21 GUN SALUTE.

WHAT A SAD AND REPULSIVE SITUATION.

Here is the link/URL. Take a good look at who brought “Zionist/Jewish Terrorism” to Palestine:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/images/IsraeliJewishTerroristsWanted.html

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By Howard, October 6, 2007 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

Lets look at the Other Side. Israel leaves Gaza. In the last 14 months over 2800 rockets have been sent into Israel.
  Greenhouses and their accompanying running businesses and houses left in good standing in Gaza by thrown out Israelis were destroyed by Hamas and not used in the least. (They were purchased from the Israelis by American donors and given to the Pal’s.) What a chance to show the world what they could begin to do for themselves.
  And the opportunity was missed.  Again.

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By Robert, October 6, 2007 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

THE PALESTINIAN NAKBA(HOLOCAUST)

The Nakba - an event that did not occur (although it had to occur)

By Eitan Bronstein, 2004

“Palestinian women and children leaving their homes during Nakba. Note the absence of men, most likely they were sent to labor or concentration camps

In March 2004 a memorial event was held near the ‘Cinema City’ ( Hertzeliya) for the Palestinian village of Ijlil which had existed at the site until 1948. Its inhabitants fled upon hearing of massacres committed against Palestinians by Zionist forces in the area. A detailed report about the village, its uprooting and the fate of its refugees, was published in the local paper ‘Sharon Times’ on the occasion of the memorial. One week later the same paper published a letter to the editor written by a reader who was outraged at the paper for “providing a stage (...) to some Arabs who claim to have once lived on the site of the recently constructed, magnificent Cinema City.” An educator working in Natanya was surprised to hear from high school students that, “before the Jews there were the British in the country.” These are two rather incidental examples for the denial of the Palestinian Nakba by Jews in Israel. While it would certainly be possible to find even stronger examples, there appears to be no need for proof of the argument that the Jewish public in Israel denies the occurrence of the Nakba. The Nakba denial is found in the geography and the history taught in schools, on the maps of the country and in the signs marking places on its surface. All of them ignore almost completely the event which made possible the establishment of the Jewish State as a state with a Jewish majority and a Palestinian minority, after the majority of the indigenous people of the country were evicted, their properties destroyed and/or confiscated for the benefit of the new state.
How can we understand this denial of the Nakba?

Can it be explained in psychological terms as the denial of an event that cannot be comfortably accepted?
Could we also say that recognition of the suffering inflicted on the Palestinians would ‘remove’ Jews in Israel from the status of the ultimate victim which justifies almost each evil action?
Or maybe the denial is a result of plain ignorance?

There may be various correct explanations for this phenomenon. This article will try to shed light on one aspect of the discourse about the Nakba in Israel (before and after its establishment). It will show that the Nakba represents for the Zionist subject an event that cannot possible have occurred and - at the same time - had to occur. From early on, Zionism ignored the existence of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine. It is, therefore, not possible that some 800,000 persons were ethnically cleansed from the country and that more than 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed. On the other hand, the expulsion of the Palestinian majority from their country was inevitable for Zionism that aimed to establish a Jewish State, i.e. a national home for the Jewish people in the world on a territory ruled by a Jewish majority on the basis of law.”

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/Story1649.html

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By Robert, October 5, 2007 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment

A Powerful Voice: An Interview with Ilan Pape.
Written by Liam Bailey
Published January 17, 2007

Prominent Israeli academic and author Ilan Pape is openly critical of Israel. In his latest article, he called Israel’s policies in the West Bank “ethnic cleansing” and felt safe to call their actions in Gaza “measured genocide”.

Let us not forget that Ilan Pape is an Israeli and for him to accuse his own homeland of these things must be very hard indeed, and without a strong basis, I’m sure he would reduce the terms to something much weaker. Secondly, Ilan Pape has extensive experience of the conflict. He is a senior lecturer at the University of Haifa Department of political Science and Chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian Studies in Haifa.

He has also written books on the subject, including, among others: The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (London and New York 1992), The Israel/Palestine Question (London and New York 1999), A History of Modern Palestine (Cambridge 2003), The Modern Middle East (London and New York 2005) and his latest, Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006).

An Israeli with so much knowledge criticizing his homeland makes him a powerful voice. Ilan agreed to answer a few questions of mine on the above matters by e-mail.

Liam Bailey: Do you believe Israel will ever commit to peace?

Ilan Pape: Not in the near future and maybe not in the longer run. There is a need for a revolutionary change in global and regional balances of power before a genuine process of change takes place in Israel itself. If ever this happens, and it is likely to happen at one point, these are time consuming processes. Israel has to be de-Zionised to a point before any genuine reconciliation can be attempted.

LB: Do you think Israel would be more committed to peace if the U.S allowed resolutions against Israel, and threatened to withdraw U.S aid unless they make more concessions to achieve sustainable peace with the Palestinians?

IP: Yes by all means this is one of the revolutionary changes in the global balances I was taking about, above. It will be a crucial factor in forcing a new thinking within Israel and it would be a very positive message to the Arab world to believe once more in the possibility of peace.

LB: Do you share the opinion that the recent Gaza ceasefire was nothing more than appearing as committed to peace to guarantee continued U.S support from a Democrat Congress?

IP: I think the ceasefire was less to do with US policy as with two other factors: one, Israelis want to see how a civil war inside Gaza serves them and secondly, foolishly, Hamas and Fatah are willing to divert their energies and attention from fighting the occupation into trying to struggle one against the other.

LB: When this article is published, going by my past articles, I will be inundated with e-mails and comments saying that genocide in Gaza is a ludicrous suggestion, that Israel is only attacking Gaza in self defence, and that if the Palestinians would stop launching rockets and committing other acts of terrorism Israel would stop retaliating. What would you say to those people?

IP: The Israeli actions, as the Israeli army admits, increase the motivation for more rockets and missiles. The Israeli army itself admits the punitive actions have very little to do with the missile attacks and are meant to achieve ‘deterrence’. Moreover, ever since 1993, whenever any Palestinian group was willing to ceasefire and give a chance for a peace dialogue, the Israeli army immediately launched a provocative action so that the lull would not continue for too long. After the recent ceasefire was agreed upon, the Israeli army arrested a large number of leaders and killed activists and civilians in the West Bank; knowing perfectly well that this was a cassis belle in the eyes of the Palestinian groups.


http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/01/17/033135.php

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By Calm, October 5, 2007 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

It wasn’t a holocaust .... it was a hollowcost, because nobody learned anything from it.

Calm

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By Inherit The Wind, October 5, 2007 at 7:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

[B]WHY DO HOLOCAUST DENIERS EXIST?

Holocaust denial has been around for years. It’s become the cause celebre of the white-supremacist and neo-nazi movements.

Despite the Holocaust being the best and most heavily documented crime in history, these people work very hard in denial. Why?  Are they just stupid and ignorant? Or is the purpose much deeper?

The “scholars” of denial are very clever.  They write books with lots of footnotes and references and cross-references.  But if one looks carefully, one will see that the legitimate references (newspapers, memoirs and documents) are simply to uncontested facts.  However, when they are discounting the Holocaust, they reference works by other deniers, not facts that corroborate the position.  Those other deniers, in their turn practice the same thing.  So there’s never any ORIGINAL sources showing the Holocaust didn’t exist.  It’s very clever.

In fact, it’s very similar in tactics and strategy to the “Intelligent Design” movement.

Neither movement really has a scholarly basis—that much is clear.  But neither has any intention of being scholarly, only of creating in the lay public’s mind the false idea that the scholars of the field are debating this “important” question. They aren’t.

Legitimate historians range from arch-conservative to Marxist left-wingers, so there’s a broad range, yet NONE of them question the existence of the Holocaust anymore than they question the existence of the Sun.  The “controversy” is a complete and total phony to get the MSM to cover it.  Get on O’Reilly, get on Oprah, get the ideas out there.  The same is true of “intelligent design”.

But there’s a nefarious difference.  The “ID” people are really just Christian fundamentalists who want SOME way to force us to pretend the earth is 6000 years old—and to teach it in schools.  This is bad but it’s not a fight to the death.

But the neo-nazis have a far worse purpose.  Hitler and his biological racism, phony “Aryans” (Iranians are the TRUE Aryans) all crash and burn on the giant rock of the Holocaust—it says to all men and women: Nazis believe that murder is their calling, mass, mechanized murder by the millions.  THIS is what we all face if they return.

So the success and re-emergence of nazi-ism, this anti-American disease we CRUSHED in 1945, depends TOTALLY on getting enough people to believe that the biggest planned murder in history NEVER HAPPENED!

And if enough people are fooled into believing it never happened, why, then there’s NO reason why nazi racism and the cult of race hatred cannot be brought back into the mainstream. Just play on people’s fears.

But they can’t do that because the Holocaust reveals what they truly are: Agents of death, destruction, tyranny and dictatorship.  Many nations in Europe consider joining, acting on, displaying symbols of, etc. as a CRIME, and treasonous.

I believe every holocaust denier, ever white-supremacist, and every American nazi is a traitor to the United States of America, and is determined to bring the USA and our Constitution down.  Hear me, GNCarlo?

I believe that people who knowingly use information and articles from neo-nazi and white-supremacist websites fall into the same category—like Robert, who CONSTANTLY cites propaganda from such places (Like Michael Rivero’s Whatreallyhappened.com).

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By Robert, October 5, 2007 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

August 8, 2007

IDF Soldiers Never Go to Jail for Killing Palestinian. Never.

The Murder of Abir Aramin, Nine Years Old

By NURIT PELED-ELHANAN

How sad it is to come to the realization that the number of those who evade service in the army of occupation is so low that there is virtually no effect on the motivation of Israel’s children to put on the uniform of brutality.

Professor Stewart Cohen of Bar Ilan University consoles us by declaring that the “blame” lies in the increase in the number of Haredis who do not serve and he informs us that the army of the United States would have been happy with such a low percentage of evaders during the Vietnam war. Maybe we would do well to learn something from the Americans of the 1960s, or even from the Haredi Jews who fear for the safety of their children.

When the extent of evasion became known, I was invited onto the program of Oded Shahar, “Politika”, as a mother who will not permit her son (now 15 years old) to join the army. Apart from me, I was informed over the course of a protracted campaign of persuasion, only men were invited, most of them warmongering generals like Effie Eitam and Yossi Peled.

After I was convinced that my participation in the program would be important, I agreed. The researcher asked me why I would not allow my son to enlist. I explained to her that an army that has been involved for forty years now in systematic and growing abuse of a civilian population, (abuse that even a courageous journalist like Gideon Levy calls by the gentle name of “policing”), an army that teaches its soldiers that killing Palestinian children and those who protect them, like Rachel Corrie and James Miller, is not a crime, an army whose commanders are immune to punishment though they commit daily crimes against humanity, is not a suitable place for my son, who was brought up to love people, who has Palestinian friends, whose brothers and parents have Palestinian friends who are subjected to that same reign of terror and daily torment. After half an hour I was told that despite my contribution there were not enough seats on the stage.

A few days later we were told in an isolated solitary news broadcast that the file on the murder of Abir Aramin, the daughter of Salwa and Bassam Aramin, has been closed. Bassam is one of the founders of the Palestinian-Israeli movement Combatants for Peace, where my sons Elik and Guy are members. Bassam Aramin spent 9 years in an Israeli jail for being a member of the Fatah in the Hebron area and for trying to throw a grenade on an Israeli army Jeep which was patrolling in Occupied Hebron.

On a Tuesday afternoon, the 16th of January, an Israeli soldier shot his nine year old daughter, Abir, in the head as she was leaving school to go home. The soldier will not spend an hour in jail. In Israel, soldiers are not imprisoned for killing Arabs. Never. It does not matter whether the Arabs are young or old, real or potential terrorists, peaceful demonstrators or stone throwers. The army has not conducted an inquiry in Abir Aramin’s death. The police and the courts have questioned no one except for Abir’s sister, who was holding her hand while she was falling. The young sister was asked time and again how many meters were they from the school gate, from the kiosk, from the jeep.

There was hardly any investigation except for a private one by Bassam and his friends who know exactly who the killer is. But as far as the Israeli Defense Forces are concerned, the shooting did not happen. The army’s official account of her death is that she might have been hit by a stone that one of her classmates was throwing “at our forces.” That in the face of the finding of a senior pathologist, who worked for many years in an institute of forensic medicine.

(Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan is an Israeli Lecturer in Language Education at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/peled08082007.html

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By Akira_Maritias, October 5, 2007 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

Sorry Mike.

Gncarlo, what the fuck is wrong with you? How the bloody HELL can you sit there and type up that bullshit? Seriously! I jut don’t get how a monkey could operate a keyboard and manage to bang out a sentence!

The holocaust was fucking real. Jesus fucking Christ…what the fuck is wrong with you?

Do you want to know how I KNOW it’s real? A good chunk of my family is dead and buried in one of the mass graves. Do you want to tell me that they aren’t REALLY there?

You, sir, are a sick bastard, and don’t even deserve the luxury of the internet. You’re too busy humping the catholic church to notice that yes, they did some bad shit. Really bad shit. Just because you’ve got friends in it does not mean that it’s all roses. They’ve done some nasty things that even a moron like YOU can’t cover up.

Can SOMEONE cut this guys internet access? Seriously, it disgusts me. Gncarlo, don’t even bother to reply to me. I don’t care for what you say; too busy lying because apparently, Hitler was a totally awesome guy and the Nazis were A-OK. Guess again, asshole. They sucked, WWII sucked, and some of my family is dead because of it, so take your KKK loving mindset and shove it up your ass.

No, I can’t be kind about that. You just essentially said that no, my family really ISN’T in a mass grave made by Nazis; that even in death, they STILL found a way to lie.

God…I am just…astounded. I didn’t even think that people like you were REAL; I just thought that people used your kind of mindset as an extreme example of stupidity.

Stop flooding this topic with your anti-semitic bullshit. It is…just so flat out disgusting. Please don’t breed. This is that evolutionary desire in the back of my mind kicking in: Do not breed. We don’t need little gncarlo’s being raised on sheer stupidity to grow up as Klan members.

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By Lee Byfield, October 4, 2007 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you, gncarlo for making it clear that you are a Nazi sympathizer and Holocaust denier. My great-grandfather left seven siblings in Poland when he came to America. Why are there no descendants today? Where is the large family I would expect to find in Poland?

This blog started about a biased article about a summer experience in Israel for Jews from around the world; it has deteriorated into rantings from a Neo-Nazi.

I have great respect for Robert Scheer from his writings and his radio commentaries, but if Truth Dig is here for Nazis to mouth off, encouraged by Chris Hedges’ offensive article, I guess I have to find a more suitable outlet to follow.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 4, 2007 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What is it about Truthdig that attracts all these white-supremacist neo-nazi KKK morons?

Hagee predictably made reference to the Holohoax,.....Since he is admittedly a believer in the Jewish version of recent European history, vis a “Holocaust” believer, and that Hitler gassed six million Jews,

You nazi bastard, gncarlo. You know damn well it happened. And it wasn’t just 6 million Jews. There were 4 million Russian POWs murdered, 1/2 million Catholics, and 3 million assorted “subversives”, gypsies, gays and anyone else the Nazis wanted to kill.

The Holocaust is the best and most documented crime in history. Pearl Harbor isn’t nearly as well-documented.  The Nazis were METICULOUS record-keepers and there are literally MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of documents.  NOBODY in Nazi Germany did ANYTHING unless it was documented in triplicate and signed-off by all the right people.  The documentation is SO massive researchers and scholars have troubles getting a handle on it.  There were 9 million Jews in Europe before the war. All 9 million didn’t emigrate.  6 million were turned into carrion.  Jewish culture in Europe vanished, and its American arm, without the European powerhouse, went into a decline from which it never recovered.

Recently, in Ken Burns’ “The War”, a good ol’ boy from the South (I think Alabama) who opened one of the camps said anyone who thinks it didn’t happen was full of shit (like goose-stepping-carlo). He was there.  He saw it. It happened.  Even the Germans and Poles know it happened.

Goose-step back into your hole, Goerring-Carlo or get your head out of your nazi butt.

I swear, why does Truthdig put up with all these nazi turds?

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By Anthony, October 4, 2007 at 8:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Lefty

Try using your right hand some time.
Scum like you are the reason why Israel is the most despised nation in the world.

Howard

Your right Israel does need al the help it can get. Because no one else in this world gives a shit about them. Maybe you can help lefty as his hand is propably getting sore.

Non Credo

Lefty , he prefers to use his left hand, is the one who started using Patton as his holy than thou patron to extol the crimes of the Zionist pigs.

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 4, 2007 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment

Apologies to RdV . (#104573 )

It was not at all my intent to sound above the fray, or to imply moral superiority. I was speaking about tactics.

I wanted to point out that what may appear as the heartfelt exchanges of equally impassioned parties disagreeing, may be something else entirely. Some of the folks who always appear in these Israel-related commentaries might, in fact,  be acting at the behest of others. There could be a strategy involved. They might be team players in a game where you are the pinball.

By allowing them to hijack the discussion, you have already lost the argument.

I’m approaching it like this:
If you are a thinking, curious adult, with a modicum of compassion for your fellow man/woman, a bit of political savvy, and able to obtain some of your information from outside the mainstream, you will eventually begin to question some of the things you were taught about Israel. If you look deeper into it, and you are not pre-disposed to hating those Arab folks they go on about, you will soon begin to wonder why the US gives such wildly uncritical support to such a country.

If you are not too biased in one direction or another, you might come to the conclusion that there are some good reasons for our support, and some not so good, and some really bad ones too.

Now, if you read through these comments, you might agree that many anti-Israel folks are angry about one simple fact:

the value of unqualified and disproportionate US support for this tiny theocracy can’t be questioned. It can’t even be openly discussed in this country.

The plants and shills I referenced earlier know, even before they begin to type, that you and I are lost causes, because we are already asking too many questions.

But what about the twenty year old kid who stumbles upon this article? Curiousity piqued, that kid might start to think about Israel, that kid might some day begin to see a big difference between the cold steel truth of Israel’s actions, and the propaganda of it’s proponents—that mediatized mythical Israel we can’t escape as Americans.

But before that kid reaches this point, he might scroll down to the comments section. There, he will be bombarded with vitriol, hatred, and slander. If that kid’s moral compass is working, he will feel dirty just reading the rhetorical raping, the gloating, and the jingoistic appeals to superstition and religion that come from both sides (unfortunately, there really do seem to be a few that just don’t like Jews).

At that moment, just when an eye was about to be opened, the kid will close the web page and say to himself, that’s just a bunch of Nazi whatevers blabbing.

Score another victory to the plants and shills, add another convert to the Zionist Project.

Put plainly, the strategy is to make you seem hateful.

I hope this clarifies my point.

shine on, people

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By Mike W, October 4, 2007 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

Akira,

I am glad you came back home. There was so much hate flowing in that dig…I knew you did not belong in there.

Last week, I was getting a haircut from my barber. Rex Grossman, Chgo Bears’s quarterback, just had another bad game - as well did the entire team. While getting the haircut, the sport’s channel announced that Rex will officially not start in their next game. Well, of all the comments related to football that my barber could mention on the announcement, he said,
“Great, the only reason that he was the started anyway was because the owners HAD to start their pretty face Jew Boy”.

If I remember correctly, Rex got over an injury and came back and brought the Bears into the Super Bowl this past January. My barber is a huge sport’s fan but his hate messed up his logic and memory some.
What a shame.

You and I lay….......................

(An Atheist Manifesto Dig)

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By hazmaq, October 4, 2007 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

“...As for Israel’s actions, which actions are you referring to? “...

You hyprocritical traitors, you who were victims have now become the Kings of victimization, racism and greed.
You want a little proof of what you’ve become?

You bombed the dairies of Palestine and Lebanon in your lust for revenge, only after the United Nations awarded them a longstanding dairy contract because they outbid you.

You used a variety of chemical weapons against innocent Lebanese in last years war.  Some were experimental gas and white phosphorous weapons. And after a ceasefire in that same war was announced, in a flurry of more hate and revenge you dropped over 400,000 cluster bomblets on all of Lebanon, not just in Hizb’allah territory.

America is your only friend.  Why? 
Why is everyone else always wrong?

But more importantly, as my first posting reported, you demand ‘we’, the ‘we’ here in America,  attack all your alienated neighbors for you- why haven’t you and your family put your money where your big mouths are? 

Oh, because it isn’t worth THAT much, right?

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By Howard, October 4, 2007 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee in 1948 said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.” Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . .”

Husseini’s prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan’s King Abdullah said:


[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel’s declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

“The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.”

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By Neoconned, October 4, 2007 at 10:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#104598 by Howard on 10/04 at 6:27 am
(38 comments total)

In 1948 when partition happened Israel was immediately attacked by 9 countries….from all sides!
It defended itself brilliantely instead of succumbing. A perfect example of self-defense !
++++++++++++++++

You mean a perfect example of RAPE AND MURDER from the IDF, you lying Stern Gang Facist!!!!!

You are so pathetic, you are a Joke.  You are no better than Hitler with his lies about Jews.  Now isn’t that Ironic!!!!!

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By Robert, October 4, 2007 at 7:55 am Link to this comment

Ilan Pappe: Israeli Jewish myths and the prospect of American war
Interview by Greg Dropkin

“Dr. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian at Haifa University who writes on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the history of the 1948 war. He was interviewed on 11 Sept. before addressing a public meeting and open debate at the University of Manchester. Both events were recorded by Joseph Cooper and Kristin Karlson - contact Pertier Media for details of this video for Liverpool Friends of Palestine (soon!). Photos: Kristin Karlsson, Pertier Media

I think there are 3 main myths that inform mainstream Israeli Jewish society. A lot of them still believe, because that’s the way they have been educated, that Palestine had been empty when the Jewish settlers came there in the late 19th century. There is still a feeling there that basically the Palestinian inhabitants of Palestine are either a nuisance or newcomers, or irrelevant. They are an obstacle, but not people with rights or indigenous rights.

The second myth is more directly connected to 1948. Most Israeli Jews believe that the Palestinians left voluntarily in 1948. They are not aware, or do not want to be aware of the fact that an ethnic cleansing took place in 1948.

And the third myth concerns the Occupation. Very few Israelis would call it an Occupation at all. Very few relate to any of the Palestinian demands to end the Occupation, and most Israeli Jews would regard the war against them not as a war of liberation or a war against Occupation, but as part of the more general scheme by Arabs or Muslims in general to destroy the Jewish State.

Going back to 1948 for a bit, could you give a little more detail of your own historical research.

A group of us are called the “New Historians”, those who revise and challenge the main Israeli version of 1948. We debunk several myths.

The first myth is that Israel was fighting the whole of the Arab world in a kind of David and Goliath war. Although there was a lot of war rhetoric from the Arab side, very few Arab soldiers were sent into the battlefield, and actually for most of the war there was superiority on the side of the Israeli army. In fact one of the most important Arab armies, the Jordanian army, had colluded with the Israelis before the war to divide Palestine. So the first myth we undermine is the “few against many” - which is very important in the Israeli psyche, the Israeli mentality.

The second and most important myth is that the Palestinians left voluntarily. We found out that there was a systematic expulsion of Palestinians and an ethnic cleansing operation taking place.

We also found there had been willingness on the Arab side in general and on the Palestinian side in particular, to conclude some sort of an agreement with the Jewish State after the war, and it was the Israeli intransigence and inflexible position that failed the peace efforts after the 1948 war.

The strategy was set out even well before 1948 with the Transfer Committee.

Yes. The Transfer Committee was part of the outfit in pre-1948 Palestine, that belonged to the Jewish Agency, to the Jewish leadership. And its main position was actually to evaluate the “quality” of the 500 - 600 Arab villages, i.e. to find out which village had fertile land, what was the wealth of each and each village. It was preparing for the day that Israel would take over these villages. And then, after the ethnic cleansing took place, it was renamed and became more like a distribution committee. It had to divide the spoils between the various Kibbutzim movements, and the various Jewish agencies that dealt with Settlement. And so it was an important official facet of the leadership. But it was all conceived by the leader of the Jewish Agency and later the first Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben-Gurion. The committee were just the officials, they were not the decision-makers in this case.”

http://www.labournet.net/world/0209/pappe1.html

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By Howard, October 4, 2007 at 7:27 am Link to this comment

In 1948 when partition happened Israel was immediately attacked by 9 countries….from all sides!
It defended itself brilliantely instead of succumbing. A perfect example of self-defense !

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By Robert, October 4, 2007 at 6:11 am Link to this comment

ZIONISM INTRODUCES TERRORISM IN PALESTINE

January 3-10, 1948 , Palestine. Extensive Jewish Agency purchases of US. war surplus high explosives with which to fight Arabs were disclosed in the New York City area. While 191 tons of TNT and the more powerful M-3 were seized before shipment, 73 tons cleared New York for Palestine. The TNT shipment was accidentally discovered when long shore men loading the American Export Lines freighter “Executor” in Jersey City on January 3, dropped a box marked “industrial machinery” and while attempting to repair the box, found cans of TNT bearing US. Army markings. The “machinery” proved to be 32 1/2 tons of TNT, which the US. Customs impounded as contraband because of the ban on American arms shipments to the Middle East On January 10, the FBI was attempting to trace the source of the contraband. The Jewish Agency for Palestine acknowledged on January 10 that it had purchased 199 tons of M-3 from the War Assets Administration at the Army’s Seneca Ordnance Depot near Romulous, New York Federal and state agents recovered 126 tons from a farmhouse and trucks near Asbury Park, New Jersey, and Barclay Heights and Saugerties, New York on January 8-9 but 73 tons were believed to be en route to Palestine. The Jewish Agency called its transaction with the WAA legal, admitted having set up “Foundry Associates, Inc.” in New York with a Haganah agent in charge, to buy explo-sives for their war on the Arabs. The FBI said Leonard Weisman, president of three New York firms (Pratt Steamship Line, Material Redistribution Corporation and Paragon Design and Development Co.) gave the Haganah agent office space but did nothing illegal. WAA stopped all deliveries on unfulfilled orders on January 9 in the New York area. It said Foundry Associates, Inc., had sworn that it was a normal trader in explosives, thereby qualifying to buy the M-3, and that the export question was a US. Department of State matter.

January 5, 1948, Jerusalem. 15 Arabs were killed after Haganah bombed the Semiramis Hotel.

January 13, 1948 . Washington. The US. War Assets Administration received orders from Army Secretary Kenneth Royal to cancel its sale of 199 tons of M-3 explosive to a purchasing agent of the Jewish Agency, which got 73 tons out of the country before the rest was seized.

January 14-15, 1948 , New York The FBI arrested six Newark men on charges of trying to ship Haganah 60,000 pounds of TNT, which was seized in Jersey City after having been bought from the Letterkenny Arsenal Ordnance Depot in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania.

February 10, 1948 , Palestine. Jewish terrorist groups murdered ten Arabs near an RAF camp in central Palestine A further 23 Arabs were murdered by Jewish groups throughout Palestine

March 5, 1948 , Jerusalem. The Jewish Agency stated that large-scale Jewish arms shipments were ready in various Mediterranean ports destined for the arming of Jewish partisans in Palestine to “fight and drive out” the Arab popu-lation of what the Agency stated “was eternal Jewish land” that could not be occupied by either the British or the Arabs.

March 12, 1948 , New York Columnist Drew Pearson said in his “Washington Merry-Go-Round” column that President Harry Truman had given Democratic party leaders the following reason for holding back on enforcement of Palestine partition after having championed this in the UN last year: Russia was after a US. Army-built railroad north from the Persian Gulf, plus all Arab oil regions and the Eastern Mediterranean. On March, Pearson had stated in the same forum that President Truman had told a New York publisher that New York Jews were “disloyal” to the United States.

April 9, 1948 , Washington The US. Department of State refused to lift its embargo on arms shipments to the Middle East

April 9, 1948 , Jerusalem. Irgun and Stern gang terrorists stormed an Arab suburb of Jerusalem, Deir Yasin, killing 250 Arabs, half of them women and children.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 4, 2007 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

Robert, I suppose that I will agree…

I’ve been pretty much posting under ‘an atheist manifesto’ only, so I know little of what Lefty does. If Lefty is really just a spammer/troll, then it matters little if sensibility/reason are used on him…

Righto.

Israel is allowed to get away with many things that literally NO ONE else could do. For example, its’ mere existence mocks America.

Native Americans used to live in North America, traveling massive expanses of open land to hunt buffalo, deer, and the like. When the British came, the land was stolen and America was eventually born. Imagine if the rest of the world agreed that the Native Americans deserved to have their land back, and gave them all of central America, then the Natives started to quietly take more land and no one said anything.

Israelites used to live in Israel, worshiping their God and calling it holy land. When the Romans came, they took over and changed it to Palestine, where Palestinians now live. Imagine if the rest of the world agreed that the Israelites deserve to have their land back, and gave them a part of Palestine, then the Israelites started to quietly take more land and no one said anything.

Which one of those sounds ridiculous to you?

As for me? I am done. That’s my last tidbit for any Israel-lovers.

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By Howard, October 4, 2007 at 6:00 am Link to this comment

3 cheers for Lefty.  A rational mind.  Also Israel needs all the help it can get so I hope more kids go there !

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By Robert, October 4, 2007 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

Comments #104543, #104544, #104545, #104546, #104553, #104557 by gncarlo


“IF WE ARE GOING TO QUOTING DEAD AMERICAN GENERALS, I HAVE A FEW.”
———————————————————————-

gncarlo…you certainly have more than a few quotes and they got stuffed down “lefty=ephraim’s” throat.

As you make have noticed, lefty=ephraim(his zionist name) likes using quotes from well know individuals to promote and augment his fanatic ADL/AIPAC zionist propaganda. He thinks that he is helping his nazi-Israel and his zionist deranged ideology on truthdig.

Great posts gncarlo!

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By Robert, October 4, 2007 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

gncarlo, Akira_Maritias and the rest of this forum’s commenters:

THIS IS A FORUM’S NOTIFICATION

SUBJECT: LEFTY=EHRAIM PESACH(HIS ZIONIST NAME)

For those of you who don’t know this fanatic zionist zealot, Lefty/Ephraim(his zionist) name, this zionist propagandist has been on truthdig’s forum for several months now.

He loves his Nazi-Zionist state of Israel, Nazi/Apartheid Zionism, Israel’s brutal IDF child murderers. His loyalty to Israel and its nazi policies is always non-pause. He hates the Christian and Islamic religions; he does not criticize Judaism at all. He tells everyone who asks that he is not Jewish. He conceals that because he is an atheist and does not care for religions.

Lots of commenters have described him/his behavior as being bi-polar, fanatic, jackass, fanatic zionist zealot…and many more.

So folks don’t let Lefty/ehraim=pesach get you frustrated or under your skin. He can’t help himself at all. He has been brainwashed with his fanatic zionist’s ideology since childhood…and right here in these U.S. Lefty/Ephraim’s head is locked in that damn zionist box for life. He has NO choice regarding his predicament.

So Lefty/Ephraim(your zionist name) just keep posting your “Zionist propaganda”; you just haven’t learned that the murder of children by your Israeli Nazi-zionist IDF is immoral and a major crime.

BTW, “lilmamzer” and lefty/ephraim are fanatic zionists brothers/buddies. Lilmamzer means lil-bastard in yiddish.

So there…just returning the favor(s) Lefty/Ephraim.

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By RdV, October 4, 2007 at 5:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To WriterOnTheStorm regarding your thoughts on taking the high road:

  Nah. They are bullies to be sure, but ignoring them doesn’t make them go away. They should be confronted and challenged head-on, not ignored. They would prefer that you ignore them so they can continue to peddle their lies and disinformation. Use it as an opportunity to broadcast the facts because they are all about controlling the flow of information and framing the issue.
  Wasn’t such a good idea to ignore the Nazis, was it?
    Silence is complicity.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 4, 2007 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

God dammit…I find it so hard to ignore someone when they are prodding me.

Do you know what, Lefty? I don’t have to look far to see that something ain’t right with Israel.

Bush supports Israel. We give more support to Israel than any other country.

By default, I tend to disagree with anything that Bush agrees to.

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=10276

Read it.

I would also like to point this out to you, Lefty:

Not every single argument against Israel is a massively anti-semitic, hate mongering, holocaust-denying spew of lies. In fact, almost NONE of it is. If you really feel the need to ignore that and say that I am lying, I can dig up the article about the recent mass grave that has my relatives buried in it in the Ukraine, although I would have to PM it to you…as it contains my last name, and quite frankly, there’s enough sick bastards out there as it is that seem to want to bludgeon me to death for disliking Israel.

You have to realize that SOME points against you are valid. You can’t deny that this looks bad. You just CAN’T deny that Jewish Americans going to Israel to ‘learn about the culture’ by way of a sort of military training sounds fishy. If they wanted to learn more, they could have just gone to Israel. You can’t honestly say that because the Palestinians are Arabic, they fully deserve to die. You can’t honestly say that Israel is RIGHT in pushing Palestinians out of the land that they have lived in for centuries.

You just…can’t. Those are the points that I have brought up, and you have shot them all down, most notably BECAUSE there are Arabs on the other side.

I know that Islam is an evil religion; it’s just as evil as Christianity. Before you go crying about that, just remember Galileo, the dark ages, and the Crusades…then try and tell me otherwise.

HOWEVER. That does NOT, under ANY circumstance, mean that we should ignore their pleas for help when they are RIGHT to call for help. Just because they are Arabic, does not mean that the Jews are automatically right to be bad to them.

And now, if you still look at that right there and continue to babble about me being anti-semitic, Muslim, or whatever two-bit insult (and yes, it is an insult because it means that you didn’t READ what I said, AND it means that you DON’T CARE if Muslims get hurt, since there are bad ones) you manage to throw out there, I will be done with you. If you can’t be civilized and rational, then don’t bother talking. Your posts look like pointless spam when you do that.

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By Leeron, October 3, 2007 at 11:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Truthdig, since all the other posters here, busy spilling their anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bile can’t answer, perhaps we can get a follow-up from Hedges himself?:

H1. THERE IS NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER MADE BETWEEN THE MARVA PROGRAM AND MANNING. NONE.

True or false?

H2. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL IS PRESENTED TO SUPPORT THE CHARGE THAT “THE PROGRAM INCULCATES HATRED AND A BELIEF IN THE EFFICACY OF VIOLENCE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.”

True or false?

H3. WIKIPEDIA WRITES (BEFORE THE PUBLICATION OF HEDGES’ YELLOW JOURNALISM): “MARVA HAS A GREATER FOCUS ON DISCIPLINE AND LESS OF A FOCUS ON PHYSICAL FITNESS.

That’s a fact anyone can easily verify.

H4. TO SCORE POLITICAL PROPAGANDA POINTS, HEDGES USES THE PRESENCE OF A BAD APPLE IN ISRAEL (WHO WAS EXTRADITED TO THE US) TO SMEAR A REPUTABLE PROGRAM (WITH WHICH SAID BAD APPLE HAS NO CONNECTION). IN DOING SO HE DISCREDITS NO ONE BUT HIMSELF (AND “USEFUL IDIOTS” WHO FALL FOR THIS CHARADE).

Agree or disagree?

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By outrider, October 3, 2007 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES

The leaders of Israel are no better than Bush, the neocons, corporate America, or the radical evangalists. The majority of the citizens of each country are good people. Neither want to be judged by the acts of their respective governments. But if the oppressed are passive are they worthy of anything better than what they receive?

Our forefathers obtained the rights and privileges afforded them by our Constitution the hard way - they earned them.  History is replete with the stories of children who wasted the inheritance received from parents who earned their wealth the hard way, by earning it. Forrest Gump was right, stupid is as stupid does.

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By seekingAkira, October 3, 2007 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The war there has been going on for thousands of years…

come home - out of that region - and let’s have some tea together again.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

...Yeah, I’m ignoring Lefty from now. Arabs, a race, are not despicable…ask any Arab-American comedian; I love ‘em all.

The problem is that such a racist, terrible point of view is widely accepted as true and good around here; by both the Bush fans and uber liberals alike. Such clear hatred for someone on the grounds of where they came from is…frightening. It’s equivalent to Hitler, and just as justified.

I do not see a good reason to support Israel’s actions; no more than I see a good reason to support the Taliban.

If any of you are willing to recall, think back a handful of years to when we were offering weapons, money, and aid to the Taliban. Who attacked us later? The Taliban. Now, we are giving MASSIVE amounts of aid to Israel. I’m projecting twenty to thirty more years before Israel stabs us in the back. Who knows? Maybe they’ll promise that they have made peace with the Palestinians and ask all Arab-Americans to come…then quietly gas them all until we catch them.

The shame, the shame…all our friends turn on us, the more aid we give them…especially if they are already doing underhanded things to begin with.

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By Calm, October 3, 2007 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Hi! WriterOnTheStorm

I agree with your comments.

Earlier, within this comment section I asked a simple question dealing with the Jewish oath of Kol Nidre? All I got was ridicule or being called a liar and an anti-semite. But, my question was quite serious. I sure wish somebody could/would indicate to me whether this is an accurate account or description of the Kol Nidre. A link would be just great.

This is an oath which is recited by Jewish Folks every year. It justifies the absolvement of any agreements made with respect to non-Jews (Gentiles) during the course of the following year.

It says:

“And he who desires that none of his vows made during the year shall be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, ‘Every vow which I make in the future shall be null.’”
***

So, does this mean that Feith and Wolfovitz are able to testify under oath and swear on the bible to tell the truth .... and then just walk away while muttering the above oath silently to himself? Are they able to rely on or hide behind the Jewish oath of Kol Nidre?

I asked another question as well ....

Eretz Yisrael

“Eretz Yisrael is a means to an end. And what is that end? Serving G-d and keeping the Torah. That itself makes Eretz Yisrael central to our religion, because this is the only place where a Jew can keep all the mitzvot and serve G-d to the utmost. Besides the Land-related mitzvot, which can only be kept here, we have pointed out many times that all 613 mitzvot are more meaningful and on a higher level when kept in G-d’s Chosen Land. This idea is repeated again in parashat Re’eh.”

***
Definitions of the term and its earliest roots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel

The opposite of those living under oath of ‘Eretz Yisrael’ is called ‘chutz L’aretz’ which means those who follow after the ideas of Eretz Yisrael but are constrained because they live in the US or whatever.

Is Eretz Yisrael not some sort of oath or an understanding between Jewish Folks?.

Is this not what Omert was referring to when he made this statement?

“Only a person in whose soul Eretz Yisrael burns knows the pain of letting go of our ancestral heritage”
—Ehud Olmert, May 4th 2006, speech to the Knesset whilst presenting the Unilateral Disengagement Plan—

Does not every Religious Jew have a yearning and desire for Eretz Yisrael? Is this not the dream of Jewish Folks? Does “Eretz Yisarel” not mean the “Greater Middle East” or the complete Jordan Valley? So, how is it that Libermann can stand up in Congress and vote for anything which lessens or diverts from “Eretz Yisrael”? How could Libermann or any other NeoCon ever be completely loyal to America when he has taken the oath or has the “desire” of “Eretz Yisrael”? If Jewish Folks have “Eretz Yisarel” as their conerstone of faith, how can they stand before the world or work inside any Western government and proclaim that they don’t have dual loyalties? .... And that it will always be Israel first and foremost?

Calm

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By WriterOnTheStorm, October 3, 2007 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

Whenever the topic is Israel, the ADL plants and shills crawl out of the woodwork in these commentaries. Their job is not to defend Israel, but rather to take up space, to raise the level of white noise so that the good arguments are buried under 16 tons of name calling and rhetorical sludge.

When the better minds among the commentators engage these people (and we all know who they are), they are unwittingly playing into their hands. When we argue non-sequiters, historical cul-de-sacs, invidious lies and outright slander, we are serving their purpose.

They are attempting to change the agenda. They want the debate to unfold on their terms. Why not ignore them? If they truly believe the feeble arguments they present, they have not yet earned the right to dignified response on these pages. If they are merely trying to provoke, let them fester in silence.

Respond only to those whose comments reveal an open mind, and a willingness to learn. Take the time to share your thoughts only with those who are capable of empathy and compassion for EVERYONE in this unfortunate story. Ignore the others. Do not give in to the temptation to correct their obvious provocations. The readers of this blog are smart enough to know the difference.

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By Calm, October 3, 2007 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

If this State Department official had of said “I hate Israeli’s .... it would of been a hate crime.

Calm

I hate all Iranians, US aide tells MPs
By Simon Walters
September 29, 2007
SNIP
Britsh MPs visiting the Pentagon to discuss America’s stance on Iran and Iraq were shocked to be told by one of President Bush’s senior women officials: “I hate all Iranians.”

And she also accused Britain of “dismantling” the Anglo-US-led coalition in Iraq by pulling troops out of Basra too soon.

The all-party group of MPs say Debra Cagan, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Coalition Affairs to Defence Secretary Robert Gates, made the comments this month.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=484762&in_page_id=1770&ito=newsnow

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hazmaq's avatar

By hazmaq, October 3, 2007 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

This is a great piece Chris and I encourage you to write more of them.
The next related piece could be on how many American Jews have joined ‘our’ military.
The New York times ran an op-ed piece, written by a Jewish high ranking Air Force official, about a year after Bush started his bombing of Iraq, which by the way was helped along by fake Israeli photos of ‘mobile WMD labs’. (I’ve lost the links, but the articles are easily found.)

The pilot asked “Where are the Jews in the American Military”.
Our candidates and our Congress are pushed by war loving hard liners of Israel and the United States, who in fact represent less than a third of the population of each country.  So far.

5 years later, how many more American Jews have heard the call to defend America, and Palestine and Lebanon   and Israel, equally and with a ‘fair and balanced’ hand?
I hope that will be Part 11 of a lengthy series.

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By J Wittenmeyer, October 3, 2007 at 9:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The bottom line:
Jews = 2% of US population
Jews = 10% of Congress
Jews own about 1/3 of all wealth in the US.
Wealth = power
US Jews with their far right evangelical allies control US foreign policy as it relates in any way to the Mid East.
The US is held hostage by a tiny minority.
What comes round goes round.
See any similarities to Europe in the early 20the century?

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By Neoconned, October 3, 2007 at 7:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#104336 by Akira_Maritias on 10/03 at 5:51 am

Akira

Ignore Lefty as he needs Psychiatric help.

As for Lilmamzer: She is just a shamless apologist for rape and murder that is secular Zionism.  Which, strangley enough is hiding behind Judaism.

There are many nobel Jews in the world who have made contributions to humanity.  Lilmamzer and her supremacist friends are not part of that nobility.  Indeed, they bring disgrace to Judaism, even as they call themselves Jewish.

I just hope there isn’t a backlash (blowback) from all the Machinations of these gangsters hiding behind Judaism (when it suits them).

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By L. Thomas, October 3, 2007 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In response to ‘greenback’ who wrote:

“Truthdig, maybe follow up on this story with some coverage of all the Israeli soldiers who have laid down their weapons in protest to the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.”

To whatever extent this is true, I can only say that it’s Wonderful!  These Israelis should be praised and held in the highest esteem by all! (instead, they are probably ‘held’ by the IDF/Massad for questioning).  I would even say that such soldiers on either “side” are much more deserving of Nobel Prize-like honors than all of the politicians put together!

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By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 6:57 am Link to this comment

Someone on a forum I frequent has this in their signature, actually:

Offending Black people: Racist
Offending women: Sexist
Offending gays: Homophobic
Offending Jews: Anti-Semitic
Offending (Arabs &) Muslims: Freedom of speech

Ring any bells?

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By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 6:51 am Link to this comment

So, Lefty…from what I can gather:

Anti-Islam/Muslim/Muhammad = GOOD
Distaste for Israel = ISLAMO-FASCIST UBER EVIL ANTI-SEMITIC

While looking down your nose at Hedges, you stepped right around your own hypocrisy.

Any attempt to look at Israel as doing something wrong is automatically seen as favoring the Koran? What sort of ridiculous claim is that to stake?

I’m not saying that radical extremists are awesome; I’m saying that Israel shouldn’t be allowed to do things that are, quite frankly, disturbing and wrong. Does that mean that I am a Muslim extremist? NO. It means that I’m not doing whatever I can to defend Israel.

Any land founded solely on religion will end up killing/torturing/enslaving/attacking someone else. History says this to us. For you to think that the holocaust-and apparently the fact that there’s Arabs on the other side of this-is reason enough for Israel to be considered good…is ridiculous.

Furthermore, there are plenty of Arab-Americans that ARE NOT extremist Republican fascist pompous lunatics. Your decision is that the best defense for Israel is a sweeping generalization of an ENTIRE race/culture.

Alright, Lefty; lemme make an assumption of the left. All that liberals do is whine and moan about republicans, but now that democrats have power, do you see anything new coming in? No; because in reality, they don’t know how to do anything but whine.

Go moderates.

Don’t swing in here and think that since Bin Laden = bad, therefore all of middle east except for Israel = bad. That’s Bush talking. That’s ridiculous racism, on the level of the KKK, hidden deftly behind praising Israel.

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By RdV, October 3, 2007 at 6:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Seymour Herst, who is Jewish (I am sure the Zionist here will refer to him as a “Self-hating Jew” for not goosestepping along with the Likud program)suggested that Hillary Clinton echoes the AIPAC agenda to satisfy NY Jews and to pander for the big money.
  The question I have is we are instructed that the majority of American Jews oppose the invasions of the ME and reject the Zionist agenda.

    How come we can’t hear them and how come the Jews we do hear are strident in their hate towards Muslims and unquestioning in their support of the Fatherland, Israel?

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By RdV, October 3, 2007 at 6:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Lefty:

  “Chris Hedges, you are either: 1) a genetic defective who has no instinct for survival and would impose your willingness to be exterminated in a genocide upon all others faced with such bigotry and hatred against them, 2) a sick, demented provocateur, or 3) an arab, islamist, fundamentalist, propagandist, troll, masquerading as something you are not.

In any event, your premises and conclusions are utterly idiotic”

  Why would anyone who shares the same views of NeoCons of the Right (the latest example being policy advisor, Ms Cagan quoted as “hating all Iranians”), the most fanatical Christian fundamentalists anticipating Armageddon, DLC Democrats bowing at the altar of AIPAC, align themselves with Likud and attack anyone who condemns the racist policies of Israel-identify themselves as a “Lefty”?

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By lodipete, October 3, 2007 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

Maybe not exactly germane to this article, but informative nevertheless. Concerns the attack on the USS Liberty.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-liberty1002,0,3053738.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout

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By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 4:34 am Link to this comment

“If it quacks like a duck…....”

If you are insinuating…hell, you know what? You think me anti-semitic. And no amount of my pleading will change your mind. You, sir, are convinced that any distaste for Israel is racism.

“Please tell us, citing reliable sources, where this has ever happened. You cannot. But I can cite many many instances of Arabs massacring Jewish kids deliberately, as a matter of genocidal policy. You can fake your moral outrage, but you cannot fake history.”

And tell me, how many countries support Israel? ALL of the U.N, pretty much. Shot in the dark here, but wouldn’t they cover it up? A lot of genocides get covered up before they are released. At any rate, I was talking about how you’ll refuse to think it’s wrong UNTIL this happens. Until children are dead, it may as well not even exist.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=899399

That’s one that popped up. Of course, I won’t say that the Palestinians aren’t killing the Jews as well; HOWEVER, the Jews are not just innocent bystanders getting attacked.

http://www.jerusalemites.org/News In English/english/2007/January/131.htm

There’s something about stuff being built on Palestinian land. Google is your friend; it shows articles that aren’t on Wikipedia, too, you know.

“There was NEVER an Arab nation, sovereign or otherwise, called “Palestine”. You need to learn some history. Palestine was the name the invading Romans gave to Israel in an effort to remove the Jewish identity of the land. The Romans failed.”

Alright, buddy boy.

Palestine exists right now. It’s a nation named by Romans, correct? Well, Palestinians are living there, then Israelites barged in and took it over. I guess you would consider this the right thing to do, right? Displacing people that have lived there since the Roman times?

After all, it’s not like British settlers moved in and forced out Native Americans, and it’s certainly not possible that Americans would be pissed if the natives decided to take back their land and booted us out forcefully with support of all other countries. Oh wait…

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By lilmamzer, October 3, 2007 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

#104287 by weather on 10/03 at 2:46 am
(136 comments total)

Welcome to Israel

A political state by day, a religious state for tax purposes, an extradition-free refuge for its citizens who commit crimes elsewhere, but always, the exhausting, manipulating and misunderstood victim that demands to be treated as the exception and always at the expense of others. Nice legacy.

I grew up thinking Israel was kinda cool, a refuge a place of solace.

Today Israel’s a Global disgrace, from Nestor Kirchner to Netanyahu, Israel’s a zip code far more motivated to foment profit in hate, than prosperity in love.

fixated
kinda sad

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By lilmamzer, October 3, 2007 at 3:50 am Link to this comment

#104285 by Akira_Maritias

<i>-I-, at the very least, am NOT spewing anti-semitic comments.

If it quacks like a duck…....
======================

you politically correct fools won’t believe that Israel is in the wrong until they publicize little Palestinian children hanging by their broken necks and burning.

Please tell us, citing reliable sources, where this has ever happened. You cannot. But I can cite many many instances of Arabs massacring Jewish kids deliberately, as a matter of genocidal policy. You can fake your moral outrage, but you cannot fake history.
==========================

Oops, I forgot: I guess I’m racist because I’m defending Palestine.

There was NEVER an Arab nation, sovereign or otherwise, called “Palestine”. You need to learn some history. Palestine was the name the invading Romans gave to Israel in an effort to remove the Jewish identity of the land. The Romans failed.

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By weather, October 3, 2007 at 3:46 am Link to this comment

Welcome to Israel

A political state by day, a religious state for tax purposes, an extradition-free refuge for its citizens who commit crimes elsewhere, but always, the exhausting, manipulating and misunderstood victim that demands to be treated as the exception and always at the expense of others. Nice legacy.

I grew up thinking Israel was kinda cool, a refuge a place of solace.

Today Israel’s a Global disgrace, from Nestor Kirchner to Netanyahu, Israel’s a zip code far more motivated to foment profit in hate, than prosperity in love.

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By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 3:21 am Link to this comment

Am I going crazy here? Am I speaking to a wall? Well, write now I’m typing to my laptop, but I imagine that other people are seeing what I’m writing, correct?

-I-, at the very least, am NOT spewing anti-semitic comments. That, my friends, would be ridiculous. I don’t hate my dead relatives, nor do I hate my Jewish friends. Yet it seems as though my opinion about Israel being stolen ground that is growing larger and larger is ‘OMFG OUTRAGEOUSLY ANTI-SEMITIC, LOLZ’.

First of all: Wikipedia is NOT a Godly and truthful resource…ever. It’s written by people, and agreed on by people. All that it takes is the Israel government having someone write the article, then have the people in the program say that the article is right. Seriously, people! Why would they let an article say that they were fueling hatred?

By the by, whomever said that Jews are entitled to citizenship to Israel needs to hop off of the bible-bushy-bandwagon for a second and THINK. These kids didn’t sign up for dual citizenship, now did they? Yet they were permitted to go to Israel, be spoken to in Hebrew only, toughen up, see ‘their culture’ as only a military could show it to them, and give them guns. Then, they were sent back, and many want to go live there. But, did you know that you could learn much more about Israel by flying there and, I don’t know, staying for a week? You don’t need military training to learn about a country. USE YOUR HEAD.

Yet, and I don’t even hold my breath for this one, if this was an article about Iranian-Americans going to Iran for a military based program to learn about their culture, I bet that not a single comment would even bother to praise it. They would all say ‘OMG TERRORISM!!!111!’.

Use. Your. Head. Just because you like the country ‘cause it’s in the bible and you feel bad about the holocaust, does not mean that they should gain special privileges. Armenians had a genocide, too, right? Why don’t we rip out a chunk of Turkey and give it to them? Why don’t we let them make an army and start to secretly push Turkey farther and farther out of its’ boundaries?

Are you so scared of being called ‘racist’ that you don’t even want to argue against Israel when it is CLEARLY doing something that’s just a lil’ suspicious?

I yet again state, and this saddens me, that you politically correct fools won’t believe that Israel is in the wrong until they publicize little Palestinian children hanging by their broken necks and burning. You guys honestly don’t think that Palestine is getting screwed over AT ALL? That THEIR land isn’t being stolen so you Christian nutjobs can fulfill your prophesy of the promised land returning to the Jews? That THEIR people aren’t being treated unfairly/killed because of Israel?

Oops, I forgot: I guess I’m racist because I’m defending Palestine. Against myself. Wow. I guess I hate myself, my heritage, and my friends.

And if you can’t sense the sarcasm right there, I will probably rip my arms off and scream.

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By Ryan, October 3, 2007 at 2:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Although both the Israelis and the fundamentalist Islamist train their youth in military methods”

Fundamentalist Islamist? Are you really attempting to insinuate the reaction to 50 years of Israeli terror against Palestinians is from “fundamentalism”?

“there are some BIG distinctions! The Israelis do not take 5 year old children and brain wash them, by making them read the Koran 8 hours a day”

Huge numbers of Palestinians killed are Christians. Apparently you
are poorly informed about the myriad of Jewish schools that brainwash
children by readint Talmud and Torah 8 hours a day.

 

 

“teach them to become suicide bombers, have them indiscriminitly slaugter hundreds of civilians on buses and in market places, or wage continuous threats towards the United States.”

Lets get some real world going on here. You act as though the Palestinians are just some happenstance neighbors of Israel, whom have nothing else to do but
dislike Israel for no reason. Sucide bombers? Buses? Is that somehow different from the indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian civilians with state of the art weaponry?....Which “continuous” threats from the Palestinians are you speaking of? And, if you were sane, would you agree gasping that a people slaughtered en masse from American government-supplied weaponry was reasonable or not?....If you like, we can start counting the numbers of Americans killed by Israelis as opposed to the number killed by Palestinians.


“They also don’t preach intolerance towards other religions, sharia law, or Jihad.”

Laughable. Christians and Muslims are routinely attacked, harrassed and persecuted in Israel, among them, many American Christian who visit the region. “Jewhad” against gentiles is nothing new. In fact, its rather old and every-increasing.

 


They also don’t exercise human rights violations to their own people, deprive women of their rights, stone people to death for walking hand in hand, or behead people for exercising freedom of speech (like cartoonists),

“They”? Who are “they”? You seem to keep wiping out the borders of your
conversation, and bulldozing the topic. Which cartoonist was beheaded? Was Rachel Corrie a cartoonist?

“The Israelis don’t slaughter each other for being from different sects of Judiasm.”

o, they are rather in love with themselves. They just slaughter people of OTHER religions.

“And, the Israelis didn’t kill over 3,000 American on 911.”

Their loyalists in AIPAC and JINSA have caused that many deaths by aiding the attack on the Iraqis.


The Israelis are America’s allies, and have endured overwhelming opposition, while struggling to be America’s front line to terrorism in the middle east.


But Israel was founded on terror. It pioneerd it. Its an icon of terror every second it exists, it legitimizes terror….The Rosenbergs, Pollards, USS LIberties. The AIPAC spy scandals, the hundreds of Israels deteained in connection to 911, the selling of American military secrets to China and other antiAmerican threats…“Allies”?.....You are nothing close to an ally, and one of the largest state-sponsors of terror in the world…You arent any ally in a “war on terror”, if anything, you are just another terroristic problem.

But, then, Im not speaking directly to you. You already know all of this.

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By Charles Lee, October 3, 2007 at 12:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here’s another feeble and ridiculous attempt to manufacture moral equivalency for the most heinous and evil people on the planet. This column turns facts and history upside down and backward.

There is absolutely NO comparison to an Israeli Army training program and any madrassa.

The Marva program helps prepare Jews, all of whom are entitled to Israel citizenship, for legitimate, uniformed service in Israel’s armed forces. Israel’s armed forces defend Israel against a continuously hostile and surrounding Arab/Muslim enemy, who having had their butts kicked in several wars they started to anihlate Jews and Israel, now prefer to hide among civilians - most of whom willingly hide them - both for protection and for use as propaganda when the inevitable civilian casualties occur - including by Arab/Muslim fire and suicide bombings.

Madrassas are where young Arab Muslims and other Muslims go to memorize the Koran and get taught that Jews are apes, and that it is God’s will for them to go out and intentionally murder as many non-Muslim innocent civilians as possible. Of course thet are also taught how to abuse rights - that they do not have in their native countries - that the infidels provide and protect, in order to position themselves, not as uniformed soldiers in a legitimate military, but in local disguise to murder innocent people.

Israel’s armed forces exist to pervent the anihlation of its citizens and its very existence. Madrassas exist to encourage and train Muslims to murder and attempt the anihlation of anyone they deem non-believers or in violation of their bizarre, primitive, savage system of religious law.

Meir Kahane has nothing to do with the Israeli Army or the Marva program.

Hedges’ ridiculous column is typical of the America- and Israel-hating traitor left, full of false innuendo, equivocation, misinformation, and disinformation.

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By Leeron, October 2, 2007 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

While a lot of people are busy spewing their hateful rhetoric, soundbites and slogans, let’s return to the substance:

H1. THERE IS NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER MADE BETWEEN THE MARVA PROGRAM AND MANNING. NONE.

True or false?

H2. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL IS PRESENTED TO SUPPORT THE CHARGE THAT “THE PROGRAM INCULCATES HATRED AND A BELIEF IN THE EFFICACY OF VIOLENCE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.”

True or false?

H3. WIKIPEDIA WRITES (BEFORE THE PUBLICATION OF HEDGES’ YELLOW JOURNALISM): “MARVA HAS A GREATER FOCUS ON DISCIPLINE AND LESS OF A FOCUS ON PHYSICAL FITNESS.

That’s a fact anyone can easily verify.

H4. TO SCORE POLITICAL PROPAGANDA POINTS, HEDGES USES THE PRESENCE OF A BAD APPLE IN ISRAEL (WHO WAS EXTRADITED TO THE US) TO SMEAR A REPUTABLE PROGRAM. IN DOING SO HE DISCREDITS NO ONE BUT HIMSELF (AND “USEFUL IDIOTS” WHO FALL FOR THIS CHARADE).

Agree or disagree?

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By Anthony, October 2, 2007 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lefty Said
“The arabs have been killing the Jews in Israel for thousands of years.”
What utter nonsense. This is the sort of outright lies and perversion of history that ones hears over and over again in the media and chat rooms like this.
Jews have always lived in relative peace with their Arab brothers and the UN record reflects this prior to the state of Israel. Even today there is a thriving Jewish community in Iran with Jews holding office in Parliment. Historically Jews administered many of the Muslum lands holding high goverment office to the level of our vice president.Muslims have historically been the Jews closest friend and alley. The Medina Charter written by the hand on the Prophet Muhammed attest to this which states:

Those Jews who follow the Believers will be helped and will be treated with equality. (Social, legal and economic equality is promised to all loyal citizens of the State).

No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew.

The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped.

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By same ole mookie, October 2, 2007 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Marjorie L. Swanson, the US started to become imperialistic in the mid 19th century.

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