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Israel’s Toy Soldiers

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Posted on Oct 1, 2007
Marva participants
facebook.com

This photo of Marva participants was posted on the Facebook group “Marva best 2 months ever.”

By Chris Hedges

If you are a young Muslim American and head off to the Middle East for a spell in a fundamentalist “madrassa,” or religious school, Homeland Security will probably greet you at the airport when you return.  But if you are an American Jew and you join hundreds of teenagers from Europe and Mexico for an eight-week training course run by the Israel Defense Forces, you can post your picture wearing an Israeli army uniform and holding an automatic weapon on MySpace.

The Marva program, part summer camp part indoctrination, was launched in Israel in 1981.  It allows participants, who must be Jewish and between the ages of 18 and 28, to fire weapons, live in military barracks in the Negev desert and saunter around in an Israeli military uniform saluting and taking long hikes with military packs.  The Youth and Education Corps of the Israel Defense Forces run four 120-strong training sessions a year. 

“Upon arrival, the participants experience an abrupt change into army life: wearing uniforms, accepting army discipline, and learning the programs and lessons integral to the program,” the Let Israelis Show You Israel Web site reads.  “The program includes military content such as: navigation, field training, weapons training, shooting ranges, marches and more, as well as educational content such as: Zionism, Jewish Identity, history and knowledge of the land of Israel.  All of this is taught in Hebrew in an intensive eight weeks.”

“The participants finish the program after completing a short, intensive, exhilarating military experience that allows them to taste Israel in a way that they never could before—as part of the Israel Defense Forces,” the site reads.  “They leave the program with a feeling of belonging and a strong connection to Israel, and many return to Israel to continue the connection that was created in the framework of the Marva course.”

There are, of course, gushing testimonials about the program.

“I spent the first few days of Marva doubting my decision, wondering why I had come, wondering if there was any way out.  With all of the running, yelling orders, discipline and Hebrew, I felt horribly out of place,” writes Canadian David Roth of his summer.  “It was a completely different world from the one I was used to.  All that changed, though, by the end of the first week.  We had our first ‘Masa’ (Hike).  It was very hard, but at the end, we all knew, our M16s were waiting for us at the ‘tekes’ (Ceremony).  We got through the 8 kilometers and had our ‘tekes’ and got our guns.  It felt amazing, and from that point on Marva was incredible.”

How have we reacted when we discovered that American Muslims were being taught in a foreign country to fire machine guns at paper figures and simulate military maneuvers?  And what about the summer schools in Gaza organized by Islamic Jihad designed to train young Palestinians in the basics of military life?  These Gaza camps, uncovered in 2001, were widely denounced by Israel as proof that the Palestinians were teaching their children to hate and kill.

The argument in favor of camps in Israel, as opposed to camps in Pakistan, is that these young men and women are not going to come back and use what they have learned to harm Americans.  They are not terrorists.  Muslims, however, have not cornered the market on terrorism and violence.  Radical Jews have also been involved in terrorist attacks in Israel and the United States.

I discovered an American in Israel in 1989 named Robert Manning.  A huge, burly man, Manning was living in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Kiyrat Arba.  When I found him he was carrying a pistol, a large knife strapped to his leg and an M-16 assault rifle.  He was part of a Jewish terrorist group called Committee for Protection and Safety of the Highways that set up ad hoc roadblocks and pulled Palestinians from cars to beat and often shoot them.  He was a follower of Meir Kahane, the leader of the Jewish Defense League, who was implicated in terrorist attacks in the United States and Israel.  Manning served as a reservist in the Israel Defense Forces in the West Bank. 

Manning was wanted in California for murder.  He had been charged in a 1980 mail-bomb killing as part of his involvement in the Jewish Defense League.  The bomb was intended for the owner of a local computer firm, but the package holding the device was opened by the firm’s secretary, Patricia Wilkerson, who was killed instantly by the blast. 

Manning, full of bluster and a bitter racism toward Arabs, used as his pseudonym the name of the FBI agent in charge of his case, a bit of humor that backfired on him by confirming my suspicion of his identify.  I obtained the picture from his California driver’s license and showed it to his neighbors at Kiyrat Arba.  They identified him from the photo.  I wrote an article affirming that Manning, heavily armed and an active member of the Israeli army, was living in a Jewish settlement.  The Israeli government, until that moment, said it had no information about his location.  He was extradited in 1993 and sentenced the next year to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 30 years.  He is in a maximum-security prison in Florence, Colo.

Those who go through the Marva summer program are indoctrinated as thoroughly as Muslims who go overseas and are told they are part of a greater jihad for Islam.  The results, given Israel’s close alliance with the United States, may not be negative for those in power in the United States, but it may be very negative for those Americans defined as the enemy, especially Muslims, should we suffer another 9/11.  The program inculcates hatred and a belief in the efficacy of violence to solve the problems in the Middle East.  It identifies Israel with militarism.  It feeds the idea that a Jew born in Brooklyn has a birthright to settle in Israel that is denied to an American of Palestinian descent. 

Jerusalem, aside from being one of the most beautiful cities in the world, is one of the most literate, creative and intellectual.  Do these young men and women really know the best of Israel by spending eight weeks playing soldier and glorifying the military?  Is the cause of Israel advanced by mirroring the twisted militarism of Islamic fundamentalists? 

Terrorists arise in all cultures, all nations and all religions.  We have produced more than our share.  Ask the people of Vietnam or Iraq.  The danger of a military program such as these is that it solidifies a mind-set of us and them.  It romanticizes violence.  It widens the divide that leads to conflict.  It makes dialogue impossible.  There are great Israeli institutions, from the newspaper Haaretz to the courageous Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem to Peace Now.  A summer working for them, rather than wearing an army uniform, unleashing bursts of automatic fire in the desert and singing Israeli patriotic songs, might actually help.

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Comment Pages: «1 2 3 4 »

By lilmamzer, October 3, 2007 at 2:57 am #
(871 comments total)

#104287 by weather on 10/03 at 2:46 am
(136 comments total)

Welcome to Israel

A political state by day, a religious state for tax purposes, an extradition-free refuge for its citizens who commit crimes elsewhere, but always, the exhausting, manipulating and misunderstood victim that demands to be treated as the exception and always at the expense of others. Nice legacy.

I grew up thinking Israel was kinda cool, a refuge a place of solace.

Today Israel’s a Global disgrace, from Nestor Kirchner to Netanyahu, Israel’s a zip code far more motivated to foment profit in hate, than prosperity in love.

fixated
kinda sad

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By lilmamzer, October 3, 2007 at 2:50 am #
(871 comments total)

#104285 by Akira_Maritias

<i>-I-, at the very least, am NOT spewing anti-semitic comments.

If it quacks like a duck.......
======================

you politically correct fools won’t believe that Israel is in the wrong until they publicize little Palestinian children hanging by their broken necks and burning.

Please tell us, citing reliable sources, where this has ever happened. You cannot. But I can cite many many instances of Arabs massacring Jewish kids deliberately, as a matter of genocidal policy. You can fake your moral outrage, but you cannot fake history.
==========================

Oops, I forgot: I guess I’m racist because I’m defending Palestine.

There was NEVER an Arab nation, sovereign or otherwise, called “Palestine”. You need to learn some history. Palestine was the name the invading Romans gave to Israel in an effort to remove the Jewish identity of the land. The Romans failed.

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By weather, October 3, 2007 at 2:46 am #
(216 comments total)

Welcome to Israel

A political state by day, a religious state for tax purposes, an extradition-free refuge for its citizens who commit crimes elsewhere, but always, the exhausting, manipulating and misunderstood victim that demands to be treated as the exception and always at the expense of others. Nice legacy.

I grew up thinking Israel was kinda cool, a refuge a place of solace.

Today Israel’s a Global disgrace, from Nestor Kirchner to Netanyahu, Israel’s a zip code far more motivated to foment profit in hate, than prosperity in love.

Reply to this | Report this

By Akira_Maritias, October 3, 2007 at 2:21 am #
(521 comments total)

Am I going crazy here? Am I speaking to a wall? Well, write now I’m typing to my laptop, but I imagine that other people are seeing what I’m writing, correct?

-I-, at the very least, am NOT spewing anti-semitic comments. That, my friends, would be ridiculous. I don’t hate my dead relatives, nor do I hate my Jewish friends. Yet it seems as though my opinion about Israel being stolen ground that is growing larger and larger is ‘OMFG OUTRAGEOUSLY ANTI-SEMITIC, LOLZ’.

First of all: Wikipedia is NOT a Godly and truthful resource...ever. It’s written by people, and agreed on by people. All that it takes is the Israel government having someone write the article, then have the people in the program say that the article is right. Seriously, people! Why would they let an article say that they were fueling hatred?

By the by, whomever said that Jews are entitled to citizenship to Israel needs to hop off of the bible-bushy-bandwagon for a second and THINK. These kids didn’t sign up for dual citizenship, now did they? Yet they were permitted to go to Israel, be spoken to in Hebrew only, toughen up, see ‘their culture’ as only a military could show it to them, and give them guns. Then, they were sent back, and many want to go live there. But, did you know that you could learn much more about Israel by flying there and, I don’t know, staying for a week? You don’t need military training to learn about a country. USE YOUR HEAD.

Yet, and I don’t even hold my breath for this one, if this was an article about Iranian-Americans going to Iran for a military based program to learn about their culture, I bet that not a single comment would even bother to praise it. They would all say ‘OMG TERRORISM!!!111!’.

Use. Your. Head. Just because you like the country ‘cause it’s in the bible and you feel bad about the holocaust, does not mean that they should gain special privileges. Armenians had a genocide, too, right? Why don’t we rip out a chunk of Turkey and give it to them? Why don’t we let them make an army and start to secretly push Turkey farther and farther out of its’ boundaries?

Are you so scared of being called ‘racist’ that you don’t even want to argue against Israel when it is CLEARLY doing something that’s just a lil’ suspicious?

I yet again state, and this saddens me, that you politically correct fools won’t believe that Israel is in the wrong until they publicize little Palestinian children hanging by their broken necks and burning. You guys honestly don’t think that Palestine is getting screwed over AT ALL? That THEIR land isn’t being stolen so you Christian nutjobs can fulfill your prophesy of the promised land returning to the Jews? That THEIR people aren’t being treated unfairly/killed because of Israel?

Oops, I forgot: I guess I’m racist because I’m defending Palestine. Against myself. Wow. I guess I hate myself, my heritage, and my friends.

And if you can’t sense the sarcasm right there, I will probably rip my arms off and scream.

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By Ryan, October 3, 2007 at 1:04 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

“Although both the Israelis and the fundamentalist Islamist train their youth in military methods”

Fundamentalist Islamist? Are you really attempting to insinuate the reaction to 50 years of Israeli terror against Palestinians is from “fundamentalism”?

“there are some BIG distinctions! The Israelis do not take 5 year old children and brain wash them, by making them read the Koran 8 hours a day”

Huge numbers of Palestinians killed are Christians. Apparently you
are poorly informed about the myriad of Jewish schools that brainwash
children by readint Talmud and Torah 8 hours a day.

“teach them to become suicide bombers, have them indiscriminitly slaugter hundreds of civilians on buses and in market places, or wage continuous threats towards the United States.”

Lets get some real world going on here. You act as though the Palestinians are just some happenstance neighbors of Israel, whom have nothing else to do but
dislike Israel for no reason. Sucide bombers? Buses? Is that somehow different from the indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian civilians with state of the art weaponry?....Which “continuous” threats from the Palestinians are you speaking of? And, if you were sane, would you agree gasping that a people slaughtered en masse from American government-supplied weaponry was reasonable or not?....If you like, we can start counting the numbers of Americans killed by Israelis as opposed to the number killed by Palestinians.

“They also don’t preach intolerance towards other religions, sharia law, or Jihad.”

Laughable. Christians and Muslims are routinely attacked, harrassed and persecuted in Israel, among them, many American Christian who visit the region. “Jewhad” against gentiles is nothing new. In fact, its rather old and every-increasing.

They also don’t exercise human rights violations to their own people, deprive women of their rights, stone people to death for walking hand in hand, or behead people for exercising freedom of speech (like cartoonists),

“They”? Who are “they”? You seem to keep wiping out the borders of your
conversation, and bulldozing the topic. Which cartoonist was beheaded? Was Rachel Corrie a cartoonist?

“The Israelis don’t slaughter each other for being from different sects of Judiasm.”

o, they are rather in love with themselves. They just slaughter people of OTHER religions.

“And, the Israelis didn’t kill over 3,000 American on 911.”

Their loyalists in AIPAC and JINSA have caused that many deaths by aiding the attack on the Iraqis.

The Israelis are America’s allies, and have endured overwhelming opposition, while struggling to be America’s front line to terrorism in the middle east.

But Israel was founded on terror. It pioneerd it. Its an icon of terror every second it exists, it legitimizes terror....The Rosenbergs, Pollards, USS LIberties. The AIPAC spy scandals, the hundreds of Israels deteained in connection to 911, the selling of American military secrets to China and other antiAmerican threats..."Allies"?.....You are nothing close to an ally, and one of the largest state-sponsors of terror in the world...You arent any ally in a “war on terror”, if anything, you are just another terroristic problem.

But, then, Im not speaking directly to you. You already know all of this.

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By Charles Lee, October 2, 2007 at 11:11 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Here’s another feeble and ridiculous attempt to manufacture moral equivalency for the most heinous and evil people on the planet. This column turns facts and history upside down and backward.

There is absolutely NO comparison to an Israeli Army training program and any madrassa.

The Marva program helps prepare Jews, all of whom are entitled to Israel citizenship, for legitimate, uniformed service in Israel’s armed forces. Israel’s armed forces defend Israel against a continuously hostile and surrounding Arab/Muslim enemy, who having had their butts kicked in several wars they started to anihlate Jews and Israel, now prefer to hide among civilians - most of whom willingly hide them - both for protection and for use as propaganda when the inevitable civilian casualties occur - including by Arab/Muslim fire and suicide bombings.

Madrassas are where young Arab Muslims and other Muslims go to memorize the Koran and get taught that Jews are apes, and that it is God’s will for them to go out and intentionally murder as many non-Muslim innocent civilians as possible. Of course thet are also taught how to abuse rights - that they do not have in their native countries - that the infidels provide and protect, in order to position themselves, not as uniformed soldiers in a legitimate military, but in local disguise to murder innocent people.

Israel’s armed forces exist to pervent the anihlation of its citizens and its very existence. Madrassas exist to encourage and train Muslims to murder and attempt the anihlation of anyone they deem non-believers or in violation of their bizarre, primitive, savage system of religious law.

Meir Kahane has nothing to do with the Israeli Army or the Marva program.

Hedges’ ridiculous column is typical of the America- and Israel-hating traitor left, full of false innuendo, equivocation, misinformation, and disinformation.

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By Lefty, October 2, 2007 at 9:46 pm #
(952 comments total)

Re: #104236 by Anthony on 10/02 at 9:07 pm
=====================================================
Anthony, you arrogant, pea brain.  Your kiffiyeh is on too tight.  The Jews neither seek nor require the protection of weak, stupid, primitive, arab monkeys or believers in the fictitious mohammed.

“It seems to me a certainty that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of the Arab women are the outstanding causes for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have been developing.” - Gen. George S. Patton

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By Lefty, October 2, 2007 at 9:33 pm #
(952 comments total)

The Truthdig BIFPAT [brigade of islamist, fundamentalist, propagandist, arab trolls], masquerading as civilized humans is out in full force tonight.

Resign yourselves, arabs, to the undeniable truth that Israel will continue to thrive long, long, after you and your kind dead, gone and forgotten as the irrelevancy that you are.

They lack the capacity to comprehend the truth that there is a very good reason why the Jews cannot be opposed, resisted or exterminated, Despite the most heart felt wishes of Chris Hedges and BIFPAT.  The Jews have been the target of persistent hatred, bigotry and genocide for over 6,000 years.  As a result of the law of natural selection, the dumb, weak and lazy Jews were removed from the gene pool.  All that remains are the smart, strong, ambitious, and ultra-ambitious, Jews.  Oh well!  You might as well get used to the idea of Israel dominating the world for a long, long, time!  There is nothing you can do to stop it.  Nothing!

Conversely, the fate of the arabs is sealed.  They are doomed to extinction.  Either they wil be consumed by evolution, or they will continuing on their suicidal path to exterminate the Jews, in which case they will either kill themselves, or the Jews will kill them.  The final result will be the same - the end of the arabs - exactly what they deserve!

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By Leeron, October 2, 2007 at 9:21 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

While a lot of people are busy spewing their hateful rhetoric, soundbites and slogans, let’s return to the substance:

H1. THERE IS NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER MADE BETWEEN THE MARVA PROGRAM AND MANNING. NONE.

True or false?

H2. NO EVIDENCE AT ALL IS PRESENTED TO SUPPORT THE CHARGE THAT “THE PROGRAM INCULCATES HATRED AND A BELIEF IN THE EFFICACY OF VIOLENCE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.”

True or false?

H3. WIKIPEDIA WRITES (BEFORE THE PUBLICATION OF HEDGES’ YELLOW JOURNALISM): “MARVA HAS A GREATER FOCUS ON DISCIPLINE AND LESS OF A FOCUS ON PHYSICAL FITNESS.

That’s a fact anyone can easily verify.

H4. TO SCORE POLITICAL PROPAGANDA POINTS, HEDGES USES THE PRESENCE OF A BAD APPLE IN ISRAEL (WHO WAS EXTRADITED TO THE US) TO SMEAR A REPUTABLE PROGRAM. IN DOING SO HE DISCREDITS NO ONE BUT HIMSELF (AND “USEFUL IDIOTS” WHO FALL FOR THIS CHARADE).

Agree or disagree?

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By Anthony, October 2, 2007 at 9:07 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Lefty Said
“The arabs have been killing the Jews in Israel for thousands of years.”
What utter nonsense. This is the sort of outright lies and perversion of history that ones hears over and over again in the media and chat rooms like this.
Jews have always lived in relative peace with their Arab brothers and the UN record reflects this prior to the state of Israel. Even today there is a thriving Jewish community in Iran with Jews holding office in Parliment. Historically Jews administered many of the Muslum lands holding high goverment office to the level of our vice president.Muslims have historically been the Jews closest friend and alley. The Medina Charter written by the hand on the Prophet Muhammed attest to this which states:

Those Jews who follow the Believers will be helped and will be treated with equality. (Social, legal and economic equality is promised to all loyal citizens of the State).

No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew.

The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped.

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By same ole mookie, October 2, 2007 at 8:20 pm #
(2 comments total)

Marjorie L. Swanson, the US started to become imperialistic in the mid 19th century.

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By same ole mookie, October 2, 2007 at 7:06 pm #
(2 comments total)

Holy cow, I never heard so much hatred in my life. Not since the last KKK meeting I attended. (joke)

“Let there be peace and let it begin with me” ~ Tom Paxton

peace and justice for the wild things - freedom for all
http://earthhopenetwork.net/

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By Frank, October 2, 2007 at 5:36 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Huh? I wonder if it has something to do with the open war we are wagging against Muslim fundamentalists versus that Israel is an ally of ours?

I imagine in 1944 if you went to a Nazi school on aero space design the government would have looked into you as well, versus going to the Royal Air Force for training.

I mean correct me if I am wrong...but we are at war with two countries in the Middle East (Iraq and Afghanistan) and close to another one with Iran. We were attacked my Muslim fundamentalists, England was attacked and Spain was attacked as well.  So, to be honest I would think the government would be amiss...no...negligent if they did not look at people who went to fundamentalist schools in the Middle East.

And mentioning one act of terrorism by a radical Jew compared to the many many acts of terrorism by the Muslims show a raising tide of anti-Semetic behavior under the “guise” of peaceful protests against the war. 

Frank

Frank

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By Akira_Maritias, October 2, 2007 at 5:05 pm #
(521 comments total)

Calm, it saddens me to an extent because a good deal of my family is buried in a mass grave in the Ukraine-a mass grave uncovered only a few months ago, I think. What’s terrifying is that my family didn’t even KNOW that this chunk of our history was buried there; multiple generations lay there that we never even knew were there. Great-cousins, Great-Uncles, etc...all dead. Dead for no good reason.

The Armenian genocide was hidden from the public eye because America kept trading with Turkey for...I think it was helicopters. When the genocide finally got slapped onto the table, many people were mortified. I don’t even remember if Turkey said ‘sorry’; I just know that no one made a big effort to make them pay for what they did.

I wonder if twenty years down the line we’ll discover mass graves of innocent Palestinians that just didn’t want to leave the home they grew up in...covered up by the world that feels guilt for the Jews...in a world that views Israel as holy, I fear that innocent blood will be allowed to quietly spill to keep Israel full of Jews-and only Jews.

There’s a clear gap with the comments here:

Some people agree that Israel is getting out of hand.

Others think that the article is stoopid and think that the former people are stoopid for saying anything that might be anti-Jewish in the smallest form.

Never mind that the Jews in Israel are doing something wrong; kill those Palestinians, as they are in the way of the Jews!

I never once said that this was okay anywhere else, either: senseless violence and romanticizing of violence is ridiculous and foul; I cringe when America does it, and it certainly displeases me to see any country do it. Israel does it and the entire world seems to pat it on the back-civilians and all. The Palestinians are left huddled in a corner, poor, defenseless, hungry...and no one so much as glances at them.

All in the name of Yahweh...praise be to Yahweh, the kind and just harbinger of death…

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By baker41, October 2, 2007 at 4:30 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

If Jews are not a race (as MUDWOLLOW many other Jews would have you believe) then how do individuals who hate or criticize Jews become anti-semites?

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By Zampan0, October 2, 2007 at 4:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

‘inherit the wind’ said; “Hello!  If the Israeli Defense Forces weren’t the toughest, best-trained, most disciplined and highly combat-experienced in the world, Israel wouldn’t exist”.  from what i’ve seen they are cowards all. of course they have the best weapons money and blackmail can buy, but please, call them what they are. that is, vicious kid killing punks.  most are homo sexuals also.

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By Char, October 2, 2007 at 4:22 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Jewish terrorists?  One nutty guy he was probably thrilled to find?  The Jews want a SAFE PLACE TO LIVE and to DEFEND THEMSELVES.  The Jews invented civilization, pagans try to destroy civilization.  Find some real statistics about who is behind most of the terror in the world, Mr. Hedges, Mr. Smartguy.  Maybe that’s why you hate them, because the Jews are smarter than you are.

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By Neoconned, October 2, 2007 at 4:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

#104144 by lilmamzer on 10/02 at 2:48 pm

Rabin was a Zionist, you moron.
----------------------------

So who killed him, you Whore???

Thankgod there are some decent people of the Jewish Faith; great people.  You are not one of them.
You are just right wing racist lying trash.

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By Robert Chin, October 2, 2007 at 3:29 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh yeah, you had to look pretty hard to find Robert Manning, ‘cu’z there aren’t thousands of ‘em like there are Muslims! And when is the last time a Jew blew up a shopping mall, bombed a city bus or took down a skyscraper! Get real! Do you really think your readers are THAT stupid?

Furthermore, to say the ‘indoctrination’ is the same as what Muslims train for is a blatant lie! Marva trainees aren’t brainwashed to hate Muslims, aren’t conditioned to glorify death and ‘martyrdom’ , and don’t look forward to applying their skills to civillians. You can count on one or two hands tops the number of Robert Mannings out there.

You’d need a Cray Supercomputer to count the Muslims like that.

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By lilmamzer, October 2, 2007 at 2:48 pm #
(871 comments total)

#104131 by Neoconned

Ohhh yes....I forgot.  The “exclusive” Jewish Holocaust gives you a license to Kill ANYONE...including Rabin.

Rabin was a Zionist, you moron.

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By PatrickHenry, October 2, 2007 at 2:47 pm #
(1112 comments total)

Serving your country by a tour in the national guard, peace corps or other civic organization should be encouraged. 

The standing military should be a draft.

If these young men choose to attend military training of another country they should have to register as a dual citizen of that country and be suspect in any secrecy requirements of employment. 

Perhaps in their zeal to recieve weapons training they should be inducted into the military of the U.S., where, they may be deployed to defend their country against all enemies foreign and domestic.

I am neither jew or muslim and the millennial blood feud between them only creates hate, fear and suffering for the rest of the world, wherever.

I just don’t want my tax dollars to fund any weapons for either side.

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By Lee Byfield, October 2, 2007 at 2:39 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

I am a Reform Jew. I visited Israel in April. I believe that there is work to be done to achieve peace on both sides of the conflict in Israel/ Palestine. Calliing Jews liars because Kol Nidre says to God “please absolve me of my vows” is ignorant and intolerant. The prayer only deals with vows to God, and was likely written where Jews were forced to convert to Christianity. To most Jews today, it is a beautiful song at the beginning of Yom Kippur, and not much more.
The military training program in the article is not something I would recommend, but it is not a huge program and does not create terrorists.
As to the existence of Israel as a Jewish stste: It was an accident of history, and maybe some Arabs paid for the sins of Europe. Twenty percent of the people in Israel today are Arabs, and while they may not be happy about the government, they live in relative peace and prosperity. Meanwhile, Jews were exiled from their centuries-old homes in Arab countries. Perhaps some transfer - compensation for Jews forced to leave Iraq and Tunisia, as well as Palestinians who fled when Israel was founded.
I compare Israel to California. The wall separating Tijuana and San Diego is like the one between Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Maybe English-speaking people in California should go “back” to wherever they came from, Spanish should be the only spoken language, and only people who can prove Mexican or Native American ancestry should be permitted to live in California.  After all, the Unitedd States did steal the land. Or maybe it’s too late to go back.  Maybe we should look at what is now on the ground, and work for peace from there.
My last point is that the Jewish religion is respectful of Islam and Christianity, and even the most ardent Zionists do not hate Islam

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By Calm, October 2, 2007 at 1:49 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

A Declaration of Independence From Israel
By Chris Hedges
July 02, 2007
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a_declara tion_of_independence_from_israel

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By Neoconned, October 2, 2007 at 1:32 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

#104109 by lilmamzer on 10/02 at 11:54 am

What is reflexive in observing how bigoted you and your friends behave?  Ohhh Yes, I forgot: Jehovah gave you the right, as the chosen ones, to look down the rest of us Scum.

When will we learn?  Jews killing scum goyim is natural since we are animals.  Goyim objecting is anti-semitic.  Nice to see your Master Race is armed to the teeth so you can keep on making enemies. 

Who is the next victim of your Mossad Death Squad, you facist???

Ohhh yes....I forgot.  The “exclusive” Jewish Holocaust gives you a license to Kill ANYONE...including Rabin.

GROW UP!!!

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By RonB, October 2, 2007 at 1:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Let me see now, who would I shoot on sight if they were out side my house with a gun, the Jew or the Muslim?

Your right, I refuse to allow my female family members to live under Shira law.  I can put up with the interest rates from the Jews.

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By Non Credo, October 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm #
(1143 comments total)

#104122 by gncarlo on 10/02 at 12:48 pm
(40 comments total)

A search of “Hedges” for the last few months still shows Hedges’ 7/02/2007 article critical of Israel still missing in action.  Any bets on how long before this one joins it down the memory hole? http//www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a_declaration_o f_independence_from_israel
---------------

You’re right - it’s gone! That is astonishing, and very scary.

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By Liza, October 2, 2007 at 12:52 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

lilmamzer,
If you’re anything but a filthy mouthed Fox News fan, it isn’t apparent to anyone.

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By lilmamzer, October 2, 2007 at 11:54 am #
(871 comments total)

Hedges does his cause (the delegitimization of Israel and the right of Jews to self-determination in their homeland) a disservice by writing crap like this.

Neoconned, weather, Paolo, and the rest of the reflexive knee-jerk Israel-haters robotically make their asinine statements like Pavlov’s dog - they do it every time Hedges posts his whiny screeds.

And the net effect? Galvanizing thinking, rational, and fair-minded people who read the aforementioned bigots’ posts into supporting Israel.

Thanks, asswipes - job well done.

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By Terence, October 2, 2007 at 10:45 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Interesting - I feel the same way. Why should I as a Cornish descended Australian be refused entry to the UK in favour of Pakistanis, Arabs and East Europeans. My people too were ethnically cleansed by the English.

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By jim carmine, October 2, 2007 at 10:16 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Well that’s some pretty paranoid lunacy.

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By robtz, October 2, 2007 at 10:13 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Most of you are missing the point of the article and misusing the article to project your own violent anger. Read again,

“The danger of a military program such as these is that it solidifies a mind-set of us and them.  It romanticizes violence.  It widens the divide that leads to conflict.  It makes dialogue impossible.  There are great Israeli institutions, from the newspaper Haaretz to the courageous Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem to Peace Now.”

Do you think only Israel has nationalistic groups? Some of you are just as ignorant as the children of Marva. Or maybe you are members of an Islamic or Christian nationalist group and just can’t stand the competition.
In the end, your so-called compassion for the Palestinians is just phony. Mostly you just hate Israel and will use any rational article to project your venom.

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By Inherit The Wind, October 2, 2007 at 10:10 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

There’s no sin that the rising neo-nazis won’t blame the Jews for.  Now, Judaism is violent:

“Jews are a violent people, and Judaism is a muderous religion.”

Yet 60 years ago, or a 100 years ago, or 150 years ago, or 500 years a ago, an idiotic statement like that by “Marcus” would have been LAUGHED at--even by vehement Jew-haters. No, then they would have been cursed for being money-lenders, and, of course, NOT Christian.

Plus, some other neo-nazi, “Non Credo” writes:
“One thing you could say for German supremacist fanatics: at least they had the guts to fight their own war of aggression.”

Hello!  If the Israeli Defense Forces weren’t the toughest, best-trained, most disciplined and highly combat-experienced in the world, Israel wouldn’t exist.  Can’t have it both ways: Israelis can’t be tough, dominant, effective, even terrifying soldiers and cringing cowards at the same time.

But, the neo-nazi racists here will, of course, ascribe BOTH characteristics to Jews at the same time.  That’s the wonder of bigotry: incongruous impossibilities that can’t exist to a rational mind are “facts” to these bozos.

People have been hating Jews for thousands of years.  Just because a large part of the world learned about freedom and democracy in the 20th century, doesn’t erase 3,000 years of Jew-hating.  So many still get it at their mother’s tit along with her milk.

And every half-century or so it pops up again, and becomes acceptable for the reason of the day.

But because so many super-leftists are sypathetic to the plight of Palestinians, they have left a HUGE hole for the Hitlerites to exploit--and exploit it they did.

And they keep crawling out of the woodwork here at Truthdig.com

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By Neoconned, October 2, 2007 at 9:45 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

#104034 by Dr RJP on 10/02 at 7:42 am

Maybe you have heared the term :We can forgive them for killing our children, but we can’t forgive them for MAKING us kill theirs”?

What sanctimonious lies and double talk.  Thank God not all Israelis are Supremacists.  Unfortunately the People at the Top are just that.  Racist and Blood thirsty.

Israel is a Militarized State because there is too much weapons and arms sales for it not to be.  All this bleeding heart stuff from the politicians is just lies for Western Consumption. 

I’m just surprised Mossad hasn’t set up death camps in the Negev Desert to gas the Palestinians in a Final Solution yet.

Israel is scared of Iran?  What a load of Hogwash.  israel has enough firepower to anhilate America.  What do they have to fear from Iran?  Israel just dosn’t want to do the dirty work.

But I know how the Mossad are going to get Bush to attack Iran.  They intend to smuggle a Nuclear Bomb to the US and set it off and blame the Iranians.  Bush believes the lies and wipes out Iran. Then Israel can take over the entire Oil Fields of Iraq and Iran, even if it takes the last American Soldier to do it.

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By THE MANGEMEISTER, October 2, 2007 at 9:43 am #
(36 comments total)

Marcus writes"I pray that America will wake up and recognize the Zionist Cancer before it is to late."I agree Marcus and this cancer extends beyond the Zionist war on Islam.

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By Joey, October 2, 2007 at 9:21 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

guys lets just have peace in the world. 
http://www.zarinas.com/

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By Non Credo, October 2, 2007 at 9:01 am #
(1143 comments total)

These repulsive Zionist bullies should lose their US citizenship - certainly their right to vote in US elections.

They are militantly loyal to a foreign government that pretends to be our ally while repeatedly stabbing us in the back and habitually manipulating our congress to drain us of our resources and manipulate us into fighting wars of aggression that are contrary to our material interests, to international law, and to decency itself.

The war against Iran that Israel and its agents are now fomenting could well be a catastrophe for the US on the scale of what World War I was for Germany.

One thing you could say for German supremacist fanatics: at least they had the guts to fight their own war of aggression. Israel connives to get another country to do it for them.

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By JDonald, October 2, 2007 at 8:49 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

THE FACES OF TERRORISM

Webster defines terror as
Acts that produce intense fear
And the intent of English usage
Is to be accurate and clear
But fear is so subjective
It’s in the mind of the beholder
So that threats to me aren’t threats to you
If you’re hardened, blind or bolder

The acts of terrorizing
Are to subjugate, destroy
Demoralize, intimidate
A most horrific ploy
Some are overt, while others hide
Behind the guise of powers
And terror wreaked its havoc
On the world trade center towers

But illegal occupation
And forcing curfews on the needy
Is psychological terror
That is inhumane and seedy
The killing of a bride and groom
By errant friendly fire
Turns a joyful celebration
Into a fearful funeral pyre

Let’s be honest as we struggle
To do the thing that’s right
Don’t accede to Sharon doctrine
Rumsfeld’s military might
Our integrity is compromised
When our actions end in error
We find ourselves unknowingly
Fighting terror back with terror

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By Mudwollow, October 2, 2007 at 8:21 am #
(211 comments total)

Hitler genuinely believed in his racial fantasies. We can discount Adolf for being a nutcase but many high-ranking academics in Germany eagerly took up Hitler’s ludicrous racial beliefs and attempted to legitimize them. Now the biggest proponents of Hitler’s asinine views regarding race are the “Jewish people”.

There is no Jewish race. There never has been and are never could have been. Homo sapiens are never so neat and orderly. There is only a Jewish religion of which anyone can join. Catholicism is not a race. Evangelism is not a race. Islam is not a race.

Jews are people. People who call themselves Jews. It’s only in their minds that they are Jews and they have a right to their beliefs. For the rest of us to go along with this absurdly childish notion that somehow there exists a unique and distinct Jewish race puts us in the same camp with Adolf Hitler.

These comments may have nothing to do with the article. Likewise the Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel, because “the Jewish people” are a fantasy.

Disclaimer: Mudwallow is a devout Homo sapien.

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By Leeron, October 2, 2007 at 8:18 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Can someone who is cheerleading this article please explain:

WHAT, IF ANY, CONNECTION IS THERE BETWEEN MANNING/KAHANE and MARVA?

Isn’t this like interspersing an article ostensibly about the US National Guard with totally unrelated references to the Unabomber?

What is even more frightening is the lack of thought (let alone progressive thought) of the cheerleaders, who use this article to condemn all things Israel - even Jewish - which is as illogical as Hedges’ false association of Marva to Manning.

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By Marcus, October 2, 2007 at 7:52 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel makes me sick.

An aparthied state, no ands, ifs, or buts about it.

Even the Nazi-style Marva training program is limited to Jews; the Hitler Youth of the 21st Century.

I pray that America will wake up and recognize the Zionist Cancer before it is too late.

Jews have been murdering Arabs for the past 120 years in Palestine. In ancient times, the world witnessed Jews murdering, raping, and looting from the Midianites, Cannanites, Jebusites, Moabites, and countless other nations. Jews are a violent people, and Judaism is a muderous religion.

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English, and France to the French.”
- Mahatma Gandhi

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By Dr RJP, October 2, 2007 at 7:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The people calling the Kol Nidre prayer an oath to Zionism have no clue whatsoever, what this prayer means. What Jews are asking God to do, is to forgive them for FUTURE mistakes (such as vows made and broken) because they know that they are human, and that they will make them regardlessly.

THAT, my friends is ONE of the MAJOR DIFFERENCES between Jews and Muslims: I have never heard one, single Palestinian apologize for the killing of any Jews, whether intentionally or by accident.

Israel has apologized repeatedly, even in situations that were clearly NOT their fault, like the bogus Al-Dura incident, the bogus Jena “massacre,” and the bombing of the bogus “children’s hospital” during the Hezbollah war.

Furthermore, when will you people wake up and realize that you are perpetuating the BIGGEST LIE in history.

There has never been any nation or state called “Palestine.”

There are no such persons as “Palestinians” They are no different from any other Arabs.

The land that they claim is theirs belongs to Israel. Always has, gonig back 1,000 years before the birth of Mohammed.

There has never been any movement towards a “Palestinian state” or mention of a “Palestinian homeland” prior to the Oslo Accords in 1993 which dragged the lowlife terrorist, Yassir Arafat” out of hiding in Tunesia, and made him the leader of the “Palestinian people”

Arafat created the BIG LIE. Arafat created the myth of a “Palestinian homeland.” Check the facts. The whole idea was part of a massive PR campaign that apparently has been successful in warping the minds of those who prefer not to know the truth.

Then, there are the usual leftists who throw out names like “Irgun” and “Stern gang” but fail to mentino that (1)_ these groups were NOT affiliated with the government of Israel, (2) they were disbanded by the Israeli government, and (3) they were formed to fight against Arab terrorists and their enabler, the British military who looked the other way when Jews were slaughtered by Arabs.

NOW, COMPARE THAT TO THE PA-SPONSORED TERRORISTS RESPONSIBLE FOR BLOWING UP DISCOS, RESTAURANTS, SCHOOLS, AND SYNAGOGUES.

READ ABOUT THE 1929 MASSACRE OF JEWS IN HEBRON, and then tell me who started the mess.

The only real “occupation” in Israel is the one perpetrated on Jews by Arabs.

The only real “repression” in Israel is by Arab terrorists who want to get rid of all the Jews in Israel just as they had in the surrounding countries.

Israelis only want peace. “Palestinians” only want to get rid of all Israelis.

READ ABOUT THE 800,000 Jews expelled from Egypt, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq in 1948 when these countries pledged to “drive the Jews into the sea.”

The vast majority of people who fled during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War did so at the behest of the Arab leaders who promised a “swift victory against the Zionist foe,” and promised that the refugees could go back and take all the land left beind by Jews.

ASK YOURSELF, “WHY ARE THERE PAlESTINIAN REFUGEE CAMPS IN LEBANON?

Did everybody forget who did 9/11? Does anyone care that Islamic terrorists want you dead, and want to destroy all Western democracies?

What does the Islamic conquest of the Sudan, Kenya, Indonesia, and the Phillipines have to do with Israel? Are millions of Christians around the world being persecuted for their faith by Muslims because of Israel?

Without Israel’s continued existence, ours would be in great jeopardy. So, if you are against Israel, then you are not on America’s side.

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By Neoconned, October 2, 2007 at 7:28 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

#103989 by Lefty on 10/02 at 4:52 am

You keep telling yourself that if you like.  But that kind of disinformation is just typical of apologists for Israeli Violence.  There was a thriving Arab/Jewish community in Palestine until the Zionists decided to defecate on everything.  Since then we have had Sixty years of lies by creeps like you.

IF a Billion Muslims were so hell bent on killing Jews, do you think anything could stop them?  And wouldn’t it have happened already?????

So what is the answer?  Israel has gone out of its way to create enemies because that is how it defines itself.  And if we are talking about associations with facists, don’t forget Irgun’s and the Stern Gang’s links with Mussolini.

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By Lefty, October 2, 2007 at 7:21 am #
(952 comments total)

Re: #104022 by jatihoon on 10/02 at 6:47 am
(32 comments total)

Violence, violence, every where, no place to hide. A violence is violence , you can call it by any name, jewish, muslim, hindu or christian. Excellent job highlighting it. Time for world to wake up to this menace, before it engulf the whole mankind.
====================================================
Jatihoon, your observation is the product of laziness, the inability to think clearly, or both! 

There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference between:

1) 350 million arabs surrounding 5 million Jews who supported Hitler’s attempted genocide of the Jews, solicited his help in ridding Israel of all Jews, openly declaim that Israel has no right to exist, swear their commitment to the destruction of Israel and the murder of all its Jews, and then set out to accomplish this on numerous occasions by conventional military war and perpetual terrorist/suicide bombings and rocket attacks, all directed at Israeli civilians, and

2) Self defense against such grotesque hatred and bigotry, which is justifiable by any measure. 

Those who are too stupid or lazy to understand this, just don’t matter and are doomed to be consumed by evolution in any event!

Chris Hedges, you are either: 1) a genetic defective who has no instinct for survival and would impose your willingness to be exterminated in a genocide upon all others faced with such bigotry and hatred against them, 2) a sick, demented provocateur, or 3) an arab, islamist, fundamentalist, propagandist, troll, masquerading as something you are not.

In any event, your premises and conclusions are utterly idiotic!

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By kungfoofighterx, October 2, 2007 at 7:03 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

It is ironic. A Muslim who learns to use guns in another country gets in trouble while a Jew who learns to use guns in another country doesnt.  I can only think of the saying: an enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Its such a shame that one can break it down by religion.  There are violent people everywhere who learn to use assault weapons.  From gangs to extremists, one just needs to pick the camp and pick up a weapon.

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By jatihoon, October 2, 2007 at 6:47 am #
(147 comments total)

Violence, violence, every where, no place to hide. A violence is violence , you can call it by any name, jewish, muslim, hindu or christian. Excellent job highlighting it. Time for world to wake up to this menace, before it engulf the whole mankind.

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By Ben Eliazar, October 2, 2007 at 6:14 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Nothing in the history of mankind has done greater harm to it than the superstition that G-d is a real estate agent who hands out plots of land to certain tribes who are, thereby, entitled to commit genocide.
And it doesn’t matter whether you call the plot ‘Lebensraum’ or ‘Promised Land’.

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By Howard, October 2, 2007 at 5:49 am #
(466 comments total)

Right on Lefty !

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By Lefty, October 2, 2007 at 4:52 am #
(952 comments total)

Re: #103957 by Sabby on 10/02 at 12:09 am
=====================================================
The arabs have been killing the Jews in Israel for thousands of years.  They solicited the assistance of Hitler to get rid of the Jews before the state of Israel was formed.  They dispute the right of Israel to exist and vow to destroy Israel and murder every Jew in it.

All all that is OK with you, yes!  But, if a Jew kills an arab in self defense, that’s not OK!

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By Gary, October 2, 2007 at 4:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

I personally have blond hair cannot grow a beard or dreadlocks. Those beanies look so Amish like.
Not into killing and I sure as hell would never have crucified Jesus. You may find the Palestinians are the chosen ones. He who suffers the most sometimes wins. Didn’t the Jews glorify 911?

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By Calm, October 2, 2007 at 4:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Hi! Akira_Maritias

I agree completely with your comments.

Here we are 60 years after the Hitler-Trip and Jewish Folks are still entering courthouses across this universe and insisting on justice and the “Right-Of-Return” of stolen artifacts, property and jewels confiscated by Hitler and The Clowns.

I think that the Palestinian people deserve the same “Right-Of-Return” and the same sense of justice that the Jewish Folks insisted upon in every courthouse in the land.

Never once did I hear any Jewish Person suggest that the “Facts Had Changed On The Ground” and thus the Jews we’re not entitled to compensation for losses incurred under Hitler … but this is the claim that the Jewish Folks make with the Palestinian People and their “Right-Of-Return”.

With the recent discovery of mass graves in the Sinai as a result Israeli atrocities carried out during the ‘67 war against Egyptian soldiers, .... the Israelis have refused to put any officers on trial, saying it was all too long ago.
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/mass_graves

This is not what the Jewish folks claim as they themselves still enter courtrooms across this universe and demand accountability for Hitler’s crimes.

“If I were to be put on trial for what I did, then it would be necessary to put on trial at least one-half the Israeli army which, in similar circumstances, did what I did.”
--Israeli Brig. Gen. Aryeh Biro, who admitted to killing hundereds of unresisting Egyptians--
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0296/96020 17.html

What really puts me over the edge is that at the same time (1948-1949) when the world was parading pictures of holocaust survivors within the media, the Prime Minister of the newly formed government of Israel was promoting and encouraging a holocaust against the Palestinian’s.

David Ben-Gurion, once said to his General Staff ....

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”
--David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978--
http://www.peoplejudgebush.org/Accountability/ZionistQ uotes.shtml

That is almost exactly what Hitler said when speaking about the Jewish Folks!

And worse ..... Ben-Gurion said this at the same time that our media was parading holocaust victims across the universe and showing Jewish Folks crying and screaming “Never Again”.

In 1948, with Hitler dead less then 2 years, .... At the very heart of the newly formed country of Israel, .... at the highest levels of government, .... within the Israeli cabinet, the Jewish folks were actually talking about committing a holocaust or committing the exact same crimes as Hitler was being chastised for.

I think the folks of Israel should hang their heads in shame and quit giving us the daily dose of holocaust guilt because they themselves are found to have been committing a holocaust against the Arab People.

During the Hitler-Trip, Jews were seen behind electric fences and barbed wire and today the Israeli’s have done exactly the same thing to the Palestinan People and with the building of the wall or barrier.

These despicable Israeli activities are an exact replication of its past sorrowful and sordid history during Hitler’s reign! What gruesome and loathing hypocrites they are!

[For an Israeli] to talk about peace is like a Whorehouse holding a convention about love.
--JohD, Nov. 15, 2003--
http://houston.indymedia.org/news/2003/11/18544_comment.php

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