THE PALESTINIAN NAKBA(HOLOCAUST)

The Nakba - an event that did not occur (although it had to occur)

By Eitan Bronstein, 2004

“Palestinian women and children leaving their homes during Nakba. Note the absence of men, most likely they were sent to labor or concentration camps

In March 2004 a memorial event was held near the ‘Cinema City’ ( Hertzeliya) for the Palestinian village of Ijlil which had existed at the site until 1948. Its inhabitants fled upon hearing of massacres committed against Palestinians by Zionist forces in the area. A detailed report about the village, its uprooting and the fate of its refugees, was published in the local paper ‘Sharon Times’ on the occasion of the memorial. One week later the same paper published a letter to the editor written by a reader who was outraged at the paper for “providing a stage (...) to some Arabs who claim to have once lived on the site of the recently constructed, magnificent Cinema City.” An educator working in Natanya was surprised to hear from high school students that, “before the Jews there were the British in the country.” These are two rather incidental examples for the denial of the Palestinian Nakba by Jews in Israel. While it would certainly be possible to find even stronger examples, there appears to be no need for proof of the argument that the Jewish public in Israel denies the occurrence of the Nakba. The Nakba denial is found in the geography and the history taught in schools, on the maps of the country and in the signs marking places on its surface. All of them ignore almost completely the event which made possible the establishment of the Jewish State as a state with a Jewish majority and a Palestinian minority, after the majority of the indigenous people of the country were evicted, their properties destroyed and/or confiscated for the benefit of the new state.
How can we understand this denial of the Nakba?

Can it be explained in psychological terms as the denial of an event that cannot be comfortably accepted?
Could we also say that recognition of the suffering inflicted on the Palestinians would ‘remove’ Jews in Israel from the status of the ultimate victim which justifies almost each evil action?
Or maybe the denial is a result of plain ignorance?

There may be various correct explanations for this phenomenon. This article will try to shed light on one aspect of the discourse about the Nakba in Israel (before and after its establishment). It will show that the Nakba represents for the Zionist subject an event that cannot possible have occurred and - at the same time - had to occur. From early on, Zionism ignored the existence of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine. It is, therefore, not possible that some 800,000 persons were ethnically cleansed from the country and that more than 500 Palestinian villages were destroyed. On the other hand, the expulsion of the Palestinian majority from their country was inevitable for Zionism that aimed to establish a Jewish State, i.e. a national home for the Jewish people in the world on a territory ruled by a Jewish majority on the basis of law.”

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Articles/General/St ory1649.html

A Powerful Voice: An Interview with Ilan Pape.
Written by Liam Bailey
Published January 17, 2007

Prominent Israeli academic and author Ilan Pape is openly critical of Israel. In his latest article, he called Israel’s policies in the West Bank “ethnic cleansing” and felt safe to call their actions in Gaza “measured genocide”.

Let us not forget that Ilan Pape is an Israeli and for him to accuse his own homeland of these things must be very hard indeed, and without a strong basis, I’m sure he would reduce the terms to something much weaker. Secondly, Ilan Pape has extensive experience of the conflict. He is a senior lecturer at the University of Haifa Department of political Science and Chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian Studies in Haifa.

He has also written books on the subject, including, among others: The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (London and New York 1992), The Israel/Palestine Question (London and New York 1999), A History of Modern Palestine (Cambridge 2003), The Modern Middle East (London and New York 2005) and his latest, Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006).

An Israeli with so much knowledge criticizing his homeland makes him a powerful voice. Ilan agreed to answer a few questions of mine on the above matters by e-mail.

Liam Bailey: Do you believe Israel will ever commit to peace?

Ilan Pape: Not in the near future and maybe not in the longer run. There is a need for a revolutionary change in global and regional balances of power before a genuine process of change takes place in Israel itself. If ever this happens, and it is likely to happen at one point, these are time consuming processes. Israel has to be de-Zionised to a point before any genuine reconciliation can be attempted.

LB: Do you think Israel would be more committed to peace if the U.S allowed resolutions against Israel, and threatened to withdraw U.S aid unless they make more concessions to achieve sustainable peace with the Palestinians?

IP: Yes by all means this is one of the revolutionary changes in the global balances I was taking about, above. It will be a crucial factor in forcing a new thinking within Israel and it would be a very positive message to the Arab world to believe once more in the possibility of peace.

LB: Do you share the opinion that the recent Gaza ceasefire was nothing more than appearing as committed to peace to guarantee continued U.S support from a Democrat Congress?

IP: I think the ceasefire was less to do with US policy as with two other factors: one, Israelis want to see how a civil war inside Gaza serves them and secondly, foolishly, Hamas and Fatah are willing to divert their energies and attention from fighting the occupation into trying to struggle one against the other.

LB: When this article is published, going by my past articles, I will be inundated with e-mails and comments saying that genocide in Gaza is a ludicrous suggestion, that Israel is only attacking Gaza in self defence, and that if the Palestinians would stop launching rockets and committing other acts of terrorism Israel would stop retaliating. What would you say to those people?

IP: The Israeli actions, as the Israeli army admits, increase the motivation for more rockets and missiles. The Israeli army itself admits the punitive actions have very little to do with the missile attacks and are meant to achieve ‘deterrence’. Moreover, ever since 1993, whenever any Palestinian group was willing to ceasefire and give a chance for a peace dialogue, the Israeli army immediately launched a provocative action so that the lull would not continue for too long. After the recent ceasefire was agreed upon, the Israeli army arrested a large number of leaders and killed activists and civilians in the West Bank; knowing perfectly well that this was a cassis belle in the eyes of the Palestinian groups.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/01/17/033135.php

It wasn’t a holocaust .... it was a hollowcost, because nobody learned anything from it.

Calm

August 8, 2007

IDF Soldiers Never Go to Jail for Killing Palestinian. Never.

The Murder of Abir Aramin, Nine Years Old

By NURIT PELED-ELHANAN

How sad it is to come to the realization that the number of those who evade service in the army of occupation is so low that there is virtually no effect on the motivation of Israel’s children to put on the uniform of brutality.

Professor Stewart Cohen of Bar Ilan University consoles us by declaring that the “blame” lies in the increase in the number of Haredis who do not serve and he informs us that the army of the United States would have been happy with such a low percentage of evaders during the Vietnam war. Maybe we would do well to learn something from the Americans of the 1960s, or even from the Haredi Jews who fear for the safety of their children.

When the extent of evasion became known, I was invited onto the program of Oded Shahar, “Politika”, as a mother who will not permit her son (now 15 years old) to join the army. Apart from me, I was informed over the course of a protracted campaign of persuasion, only men were invited, most of them warmongering generals like Effie Eitam and Yossi Peled.

After I was convinced that my participation in the program would be important, I agreed. The researcher asked me why I would not allow my son to enlist. I explained to her that an army that has been involved for forty years now in systematic and growing abuse of a civilian population, (abuse that even a courageous journalist like Gideon Levy calls by the gentle name of “policing”), an army that teaches its soldiers that killing Palestinian children and those who protect them, like Rachel Corrie and James Miller, is not a crime, an army whose commanders are immune to punishment though they commit daily crimes against humanity, is not a suitable place for my son, who was brought up to love people, who has Palestinian friends, whose brothers and parents have Palestinian friends who are subjected to that same reign of terror and daily torment. After half an hour I was told that despite my contribution there were not enough seats on the stage.

A few days later we were told in an isolated solitary news broadcast that the file on the murder of Abir Aramin, the daughter of Salwa and Bassam Aramin, has been closed. Bassam is one of the founders of the Palestinian-Israeli movement Combatants for Peace, where my sons Elik and Guy are members. Bassam Aramin spent 9 years in an Israeli jail for being a member of the Fatah in the Hebron area and for trying to throw a grenade on an Israeli army Jeep which was patrolling in Occupied Hebron.

On a Tuesday afternoon, the 16th of January, an Israeli soldier shot his nine year old daughter, Abir, in the head as she was leaving school to go home. The soldier will not spend an hour in jail. In Israel, soldiers are not imprisoned for killing Arabs. Never. It does not matter whether the Arabs are young or old, real or potential terrorists, peaceful demonstrators or stone throwers. The army has not conducted an inquiry in Abir Aramin’s death. The police and the courts have questioned no one except for Abir’s sister, who was holding her hand while she was falling. The young sister was asked time and again how many meters were they from the school gate, from the kiosk, from the jeep.

There was hardly any investigation except for a private one by Bassam and his friends who know exactly who the killer is. But as far as the Israeli Defense Forces are concerned, the shooting did not happen. The army’s official account of her death is that she might have been hit by a stone that one of her classmates was throwing “at our forces.” That in the face of the finding of a senior pathologist, who worked for many years in an institute of forensic medicine.

(Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan is an Israeli Lecturer in Language Education at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.)

http://www.counterpunch.org/peled08082007.html

Sorry Mike.

Gncarlo, what the fuck is wrong with you? How the bloody HELL can you sit there and type up that bullshit? Seriously! I jut don’t get how a monkey could operate a keyboard and manage to bang out a sentence!

The holocaust was fucking real. Jesus fucking Christ...what the fuck is wrong with you?

Do you want to know how I KNOW it’s real? A good chunk of my family is dead and buried in one of the mass graves. Do you want to tell me that they aren’t REALLY there?

You, sir, are a sick bastard, and don’t even deserve the luxury of the internet. You’re too busy humping the catholic church to notice that yes, they did some bad shit. Really bad shit. Just because you’ve got friends in it does not mean that it’s all roses. They’ve done some nasty things that even a moron like YOU can’t cover up.

Can SOMEONE cut this guys internet access? Seriously, it disgusts me. Gncarlo, don’t even bother to reply to me. I don’t care for what you say; too busy lying because apparently, Hitler was a totally awesome guy and the Nazis were A-OK. Guess again, asshole. They sucked, WWII sucked, and some of my family is dead because of it, so take your KKK loving mindset and shove it up your ass.

No, I can’t be kind about that. You just essentially said that no, my family really ISN’T in a mass grave made by Nazis; that even in death, they STILL found a way to lie.

God...I am just...astounded. I didn’t even think that people like you were REAL; I just thought that people used your kind of mindset as an extreme example of stupidity.

Stop flooding this topic with your anti-semitic bullshit. It is...just so flat out disgusting. Please don’t breed. This is that evolutionary desire in the back of my mind kicking in: Do not breed. We don’t need little gncarlo’s being raised on sheer stupidity to grow up as Klan members.

Apologies to RdV . (#104573 )

It was not at all my intent to sound above the fray, or to imply moral superiority. I was speaking about tactics.

I wanted to point out that what may appear as the heartfelt exchanges of equally impassioned parties disagreeing, may be something else entirely. Some of the folks who always appear in these Israel-related commentaries might, in fact, be acting at the behest of others. There could be a strategy involved. They might be team players in a game where you are the pinball.

By allowing them to hijack the discussion, you have already lost the argument.

I’m approaching it like this:
If you are a thinking, curious adult, with a modicum of compassion for your fellow man/woman, a bit of political savvy, and able to obtain some of your information from outside the mainstream, you will eventually begin to question some of the things you were taught about Israel. If you look deeper into it, and you are not pre-disposed to hating those Arab folks they go on about, you will soon begin to wonder why the US gives such wildly uncritical support to such a country.

If you are not too biased in one direction or another, you might come to the conclusion that there are some good reasons for our support, and some not so good, and some really bad ones too.

Now, if you read through these comments, you might agree that many anti-Israel folks are angry about one simple fact:

the value of unqualified and disproportionate US support for this tiny theocracy can’t be questioned. It can’t even be openly discussed in this country.

The plants and shills I referenced earlier know, even before they begin to type, that you and I are lost causes, because we are already asking too many questions.

But what about the twenty year old kid who stumbles upon this article? Curiousity piqued, that kid might start to think about Israel, that kid might some day begin to see a big difference between the cold steel truth of Israel’s actions, and the propaganda of it’s proponents—that mediatized mythical Israel we can’t escape as Americans.

But before that kid reaches this point, he might scroll down to the comments section. There, he will be bombarded with vitriol, hatred, and slander. If that kid’s moral compass is working, he will feel dirty just reading the rhetorical raping, the gloating, and the jingoistic appeals to superstition and religion that come from both sides (unfortunately, there really do seem to be a few that just don’t like Jews).

At that moment, just when an eye was about to be opened, the kid will close the web page and say to himself, that’s just a bunch of Nazi whatevers blabbing.

Score another victory to the plants and shills, add another convert to the Zionist Project.

Put plainly, the strategy is to make you seem hateful.

I hope this clarifies my point.

shine on, people

Akira,

I am glad you came back home. There was so much hate flowing in that dig...I knew you did not belong in there.

Last week, I was getting a haircut from my barber. Rex Grossman, Chgo Bears’s quarterback, just had another bad game - as well did the entire team. While getting the haircut, the sport’s channel announced that Rex will officially not start in their next game. Well, of all the comments related to football that my barber could mention on the announcement, he said,
“Great, the only reason that he was the started anyway was because the owners HAD to start their pretty face Jew Boy”.

If I remember correctly, Rex got over an injury and came back and brought the Bears into the Super Bowl this past January. My barber is a huge sport’s fan but his hate messed up his logic and memory some.
What a shame.

You and I lay..........................

(An Atheist Manifesto Dig)

“...As for Israel’s actions, which actions are you referring to? “…

You hyprocritical traitors, you who were victims have now become the Kings of victimization, racism and greed.
You want a little proof of what you’ve become?

You bombed the dairies of Palestine and Lebanon in your lust for revenge, only after the United Nations awarded them a longstanding dairy contract because they outbid you.

You used a variety of chemical weapons against innocent Lebanese in last years war.  Some were experimental gas and white phosphorous weapons. And after a ceasefire in that same war was announced, in a flurry of more hate and revenge you dropped over 400,000 cluster bomblets on all of Lebanon, not just in Hizb’allah territory.

America is your only friend.  Why? 
Why is everyone else always wrong?

But more importantly, as my first posting reported, you demand ‘we’, the ‘we’ here in America, attack all your alienated neighbors for you- why haven’t you and your family put your money where your big mouths are? 

Oh, because it isn’t worth THAT much, right?

The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee in 1948 said the Arabs would “fight for every inch of their country.” Two days later, the holy men of Al-Azhar University in Cairo called on the Muslim world to proclaim a jihad (holy war) against the Jews. Jamal Husseini, the Arab Higher Committee’s spokesman, had told the UN prior to the partition vote the Arabs would drench “the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood . . . .”

Husseini’s prediction began to come true almost immediately after the UN announced partition resolution on November 29, 1947. The Arabs declared a protest strike and instigated riots that claimed the lives of 62 Jews and 32 Arabs. Violence continued to escalate through the end of the year.4

The first large-scale assaults began on January 9, 1948, when approximately 1,000 Arabs attacked Jewish communities in northern Palestine. By February, the British said so many Arabs had infiltrated they lacked the forces to run them back.5 In fact, the British turned over bases and arms to Arab irregulars and the Arab Legion.

In the first phase of the war, lasting from November 29, 1947 until April 1, 1948, the Palestinian Arabs took the offensive, with help from volunteers from neighboring countries. The Jews suffered severe casualties and passage along most of their major roadways was disrupted.

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan’s King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.7 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel’s declaration of independence.

The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:

Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.8

The Arabs were blunt in taking responsibility for starting the war. Jamal Husseini told the Security Council on April 16, 1948:

“The representative of the Jewish Agency told us yesterday that they were not the attackers, that the Arabs had begun the fighting. We did not deny this. We told the whole world that we were going to fight.”

Of course gncarlo’s anti-Jewish spam is offensive and ridiculously irrelevant.

Good Lord, what kind of hateful fixation and stupidity makes someone go the trouble of flooding the discussion board with asinine anecdotes concerning, for example, General Patton’s disgust at encountering some poor Polish Jews who were apparently unfamiliar with flush toilets?

What is sad, though, is that - since the US pro-Israel lobby does what it does through the fanatical passion of its insanely dedicated true believers, working night and day to make sure that the US “supports Israel” to a degree that is blatantly crazy - maybe the only counterforce capable of checking the lobby will be an equally passionate “anti ‘Israel Lobby’ lobby”, which could easily be hijacked by vicious, Jew-hating idiots like gncarlos.

God, our choices do not look good.

Ilan Pappe: Israeli Jewish myths and the prospect of American war
Interview by Greg Dropkin

“Dr. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian at Haifa University who writes on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the history of the 1948 war. He was interviewed on 11 Sept. before addressing a public meeting and open debate at the University of Manchester. Both events were recorded by Joseph Cooper and Kristin Karlson - contact Pertier Media for details of this video for Liverpool Friends of Palestine (soon!). Photos: Kristin Karlsson, Pertier Media

I think there are 3 main myths that inform mainstream Israeli Jewish society. A lot of them still believe, because that’s the way they have been educated, that Palestine had been empty when the Jewish settlers came there in the late 19th century. There is still a feeling there that basically the Palestinian inhabitants of Palestine are either a nuisance or newcomers, or irrelevant. They are an obstacle, but not people with rights or indigenous rights.

The second myth is more directly connected to 1948. Most Israeli Jews believe that the Palestinians left voluntarily in 1948. They are not aware, or do not want to be aware of the fact that an ethnic cleansing took place in 1948.

And the third myth concerns the Occupation. Very few Israelis would call it an Occupation at all. Very few relate to any of the Palestinian demands to end the Occupation, and most Israeli Jews would regard the war against them not as a war of liberation or a war against Occupation, but as part of the more general scheme by Arabs or Muslims in general to destroy the Jewish State.

Going back to 1948 for a bit, could you give a little more detail of your own historical research.

A group of us are called the “New Historians”, those who revise and challenge the main Israeli version of 1948. We debunk several myths.

The first myth is that Israel was fighting the whole of the Arab world in a kind of David and Goliath war. Although there was a lot of war rhetoric from the Arab side, very few Arab soldiers were sent into the battlefield, and actually for most of the war there was superiority on the side of the Israeli army. In fact one of the most important Arab armies, the Jordanian army, had colluded with the Israelis before the war to divide Palestine. So the first myth we undermine is the “few against many” - which is very important in the Israeli psyche, the Israeli mentality.

The second and most important myth is that the Palestinians left voluntarily. We found out that there was a systematic expulsion of Palestinians and an ethnic cleansing operation taking place.

We also found there had been willingness on the Arab side in general and on the Palestinian side in particular, to conclude some sort of an agreement with the Jewish State after the war, and it was the Israeli intransigence and inflexible position that failed the peace efforts after the 1948 war.

The strategy was set out even well before 1948 with the Transfer Committee.

Yes. The Transfer Committee was part of the outfit in pre-1948 Palestine, that belonged to the Jewish Agency, to the Jewish leadership. And its main position was actually to evaluate the “quality” of the 500 - 600 Arab villages, i.e. to find out which village had fertile land, what was the wealth of each and each village. It was preparing for the day that Israel would take over these villages. And then, after the ethnic cleansing took place, it was renamed and became more like a distribution committee. It had to divide the spoils between the various Kibbutzim movements, and the various Jewish agencies that dealt with Settlement. And so it was an important official facet of the leadership. But it was all conceived by the leader of the Jewish Agency and later the first Prime Minister of Israel, David Ben-Gurion. The committee were just the officials, they were not the decision-makers in this case.”

http://www.labournet.net/world/0209/pappe1.html

In 1948 when partition happened Israel was immediately attacked by 9 countries....from all sides!
It defended itself brilliantely instead of succumbing. A perfect example of self-defense !

ZIONISM INTRODUCES TERRORISM IN PALESTINE

January 3-10, 1948 , Palestine. Extensive Jewish Agency purchases of US. war surplus high explosives with which to fight Arabs were disclosed in the New York City area. While 191 tons of TNT and the more powerful M-3 were seized before shipment, 73 tons cleared New York for Palestine. The TNT shipment was accidentally discovered when long shore men loading the American Export Lines freighter “Executor” in Jersey City on January 3, dropped a box marked “industrial machinery” and while attempting to repair the box, found cans of TNT bearing US. Army markings. The “machinery” proved to be 32 1/2 tons of TNT, which the US. Customs impounded as contraband because of the ban on American arms shipments to the Middle East On January 10, the FBI was attempting to trace the source of the contraband. The Jewish Agency for Palestine acknowledged on January 10 that it had purchased 199 tons of M-3 from the War Assets Administration at the Army’s Seneca Ordnance Depot near Romulous, New York Federal and state agents recovered 126 tons from a farmhouse and trucks near Asbury Park, New Jersey, and Barclay Heights and Saugerties, New York on January 8-9 but 73 tons were believed to be en route to Palestine. The Jewish Agency called its transaction with the WAA legal, admitted having set up “Foundry Associates, Inc.” in New York with a Haganah agent in charge, to buy explo-sives for their war on the Arabs. The FBI said Leonard Weisman, president of three New York firms (Pratt Steamship Line, Material Redistribution Corporation and Paragon Design and Development Co.) gave the Haganah agent office space but did nothing illegal. WAA stopped all deliveries on unfulfilled orders on January 9 in the New York area. It said Foundry Associates, Inc., had sworn that it was a normal trader in explosives, thereby qualifying to buy the M-3, and that the export question was a US. Department of State matter.

January 5, 1948, Jerusalem. 15 Arabs were killed after Haganah bombed the Semiramis Hotel.

January 13, 1948 . Washington. The US. War Assets Administration received orders from Army Secretary Kenneth Royal to cancel its sale of 199 tons of M-3 explosive to a purchasing agent of the Jewish Agency, which got 73 tons out of the country before the rest was seized.

January 14-15, 1948 , New York The FBI arrested six Newark men on charges of trying to ship Haganah 60,000 pounds of TNT, which was seized in Jersey City after having been bought from the Letterkenny Arsenal Ordnance Depot in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania.

February 10, 1948 , Palestine. Jewish terrorist groups murdered ten Arabs near an RAF camp in central Palestine A further 23 Arabs were murdered by Jewish groups throughout Palestine

March 5, 1948 , Jerusalem. The Jewish Agency stated that large-scale Jewish arms shipments were ready in various Mediterranean ports destined for the arming of Jewish partisans in Palestine to “fight and drive out” the Arab popu-lation of what the Agency stated “was eternal Jewish land” that could not be occupied by either the British or the Arabs.

March 12, 1948 , New York Columnist Drew Pearson said in his “Washington Merry-Go-Round” column that President Harry Truman had given Democratic party leaders the following reason for holding back on enforcement of Palestine partition after having championed this in the UN last year: Russia was after a US. Army-built railroad north from the Persian Gulf, plus all Arab oil regions and the Eastern Mediterranean. On March, Pearson had stated in the same forum that President Truman had told a New York publisher that New York Jews were “disloyal” to the United States.

April 9, 1948 , Washington The US. Department of State refused to lift its embargo on arms shipments to the Middle East

April 9, 1948 , Jerusalem. Irgun and Stern gang terrorists stormed an Arab suburb of Jerusalem, Deir Yasin, killing 250 Arabs, half of them women and children.

Robert, I suppose that I will agree…

I’ve been pretty much posting under ‘an atheist manifesto’ only, so I know little of what Lefty does. If Lefty is really just a spammer/troll, then it matters little if sensibility/reason are used on him…

Righto.

Israel is allowed to get away with many things that literally NO ONE else could do. For example, its’ mere existence mocks America.

Native Americans used to live in North America, traveling massive expanses of open land to hunt buffalo, deer, and the like. When the British came, the land was stolen and America was eventually born. Imagine if the rest of the world agreed that the Native Americans deserved to have their land back, and gave them all of central America, then the Natives started to quietly take more land and no one said anything.

Israelites used to live in Israel, worshiping their God and calling it holy land. When the Romans came, they took over and changed it to Palestine, where Palestinians now live. Imagine if the rest of the world agreed that the Israelites deserve to have their land back, and gave them a part of Palestine, then the Israelites started to quietly take more land and no one said anything.

Which one of those sounds ridiculous to you?

As for me? I am done. That’s my last tidbit for any Israel-lovers.

3 cheers for Lefty.  A rational mind.  Also Israel needs all the help it can get so I hope more kids go there !

Comments #104543, #104544, #104545, #104546, #104553, #104557 by gncarlo

“IF WE ARE GOING TO QUOTING DEAD AMERICAN GENERALS, I HAVE A FEW.”
-----------------------------------------------

gncarlo...you certainly have more than a few quotes and they got stuffed down “lefty=ephraim’s” throat.

As you make have noticed, lefty=ephraim(his zionist name) likes using quotes from well know individuals to promote and augment his fanatic ADL/AIPAC zionist propaganda. He thinks that he is helping his nazi-Israel and his zionist deranged ideology on truthdig.

Great posts gncarlo!

gncarlo, Akira_Maritias and the rest of this forum’s commenters:

THIS IS A FORUM’S NOTIFICATION

SUBJECT: LEFTY=EHRAIM PESACH(HIS ZIONIST NAME)

For those of you who don’t know this fanatic zionist zealot, Lefty/Ephraim(his zionist) name, this zionist propagandist has been on truthdig’s forum for several months now.

He loves his Nazi-Zionist state of Israel, Nazi/Apartheid Zionism, Israel’s brutal IDF child murderers. His loyalty to Israel and its nazi policies is always non-pause. He hates the Christian and Islamic religions; he does not criticize Judaism at all. He tells everyone who asks that he is not Jewish. He conceals that because he is an atheist and does not care for religions.

Lots of commenters have described him/his behavior as being bi-polar, fanatic, jackass, fanatic zionist zealot...and many more.

So folks don’t let Lefty/ehraim=pesach get you frustrated or under your skin. He can’t help himself at all. He has been brainwashed with his fanatic zionist’s ideology since childhood...and right here in these U.S. Lefty/Ephraim’s head is locked in that damn zionist box for life. He has NO choice regarding his predicament.

So Lefty/Ephraim(your zionist name) just keep posting your “Zionist propaganda”; you just haven’t learned that the murder of children by your Israeli Nazi-zionist IDF is immoral and a major crime.

BTW, “lilmamzer” and lefty/ephraim are fanatic zionists brothers/buddies. Lilmamzer means lil-bastard in yiddish.

So there...just returning the favor(s) Lefty/Ephraim.

God dammit...I find it so hard to ignore someone when they are prodding me.

Do you know what, Lefty? I don’t have to look far to see that something ain’t right with Israel.

Bush supports Israel. We give more support to Israel than any other country.

By default, I tend to disagree with anything that Bush agrees to.

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=10276

Read it.

I would also like to point this out to you, Lefty:

Not every single argument against Israel is a massively anti-semitic, hate mongering, holocaust-denying spew of lies. In fact, almost NONE of it is. If you really feel the need to ignore that and say that I am lying, I can dig up the article about the recent mass grave that has my relatives buried in it in the Ukraine, although I would have to PM it to you...as it contains my last name, and quite frankly, there’s enough sick bastards out there as it is that seem to want to bludgeon me to death for disliking Israel.

You have to realize that SOME points against you are valid. You can’t deny that this looks bad. You just CAN’T deny that Jewish Americans going to Israel to ‘learn about the culture’ by way of a sort of military training sounds fishy. If they wanted to learn more, they could have just gone to Israel. You can’t honestly say that because the Palestinians are Arabic, they fully deserve to die. You can’t honestly say that Israel is RIGHT in pushing Palestinians out of the land that they have lived in for centuries.

You just...can’t. Those are the points that I have brought up, and you have shot them all down, most notably BECAUSE there are Arabs on the other side.

I know that Islam is an evil religion; it’s just as evil as Christianity. Before you go crying about that, just remember Galileo, the dark ages, and the Crusades...then try and tell me otherwise.

HOWEVER. That does NOT, under ANY circumstance, mean that we should ignore their pleas for help when they are RIGHT to call for help. Just because they are Arabic, does not mean that the Jews are automatically right to be bad to them.

And now, if you still look at that right there and continue to babble about me being anti-semitic, Muslim, or whatever two-bit insult (and yes, it is an insult because it means that you didn’t READ what I said, AND it means that you DON’T CARE if Muslims get hurt, since there are bad ones) you manage to throw out there, I will be done with you. If you can’t be civilized and rational, then don’t bother talking. Your posts look like pointless spam when you do that.

Re: #104486 by Akira_Maritias on 10/03 at 3:30 pm
(369 comments total)

...Yeah, I’m ignoring Lefty from now. Arabs, a race, are not despicable...ask any Arab-American comedian; I love ‘em all.

* * *

I do not see a good reason to support Israel’s actions; no more than I see a good reason to support the Taliban.
===================================================
Once again, you impute your own bigotry upon me.  My opinions about arabs don’t arise out of prejudice, they are based on empiricism - the 1300 year tradition of arab/islamist hatred, bigotry, terrorism and now suicide bombing speaks for itself.  And my opinions are shared by others throughout history based on their empiricism. 

As has been observed:

“It seems to me a certainty that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of the Arab women are the outstanding causes for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have been developing.” - Gen. George S. Patton

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic Apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of Agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the Followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.  Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”—Sir Winston Churchill; (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 London, 1899)

As for Israel’s actions, which actions are you referring to?  What source to you rely on to learn of these actions, arab hate propaganda?  And please, be specific! 

Ignore me at your peril, Akira.

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES

The leaders of Israel are no better than Bush, the neocons, corporate America, or the radical evangalists. The majority of the citizens of each country are good people. Neither want to be judged by the acts of their respective governments. But if the oppressed are passive are they worthy of anything better than what they receive?

Our forefathers obtained the rights and privileges afforded them by our Constitution the hard way - they earned them.  History is replete with the stories of children who wasted the inheritance received from parents who earned their wealth the hard way, by earning it. Forrest Gump was right, stupid is as stupid does.

...Yeah, I’m ignoring Lefty from now. Arabs, a race, are not despicable...ask any Arab-American comedian; I love ‘em all.

The problem is that such a racist, terrible point of view is widely accepted as true and good around here; by both the Bush fans and uber liberals alike. Such clear hatred for someone on the grounds of where they came from is...frightening. It’s equivalent to Hitler, and just as justified.

I do not see a good reason to support Israel’s actions; no more than I see a good reason to support the Taliban.

If any of you are willing to recall, think back a handful of years to when we were offering weapons, money, and aid to the Taliban. Who attacked us later? The Taliban. Now, we are giving MASSIVE amounts of aid to Israel. I’m projecting twenty to thirty more years before Israel stabs us in the back. Who knows? Maybe they’ll promise that they have made peace with the Palestinians and ask all Arab-Americans to come...then quietly gas them all until we catch them.

The shame, the shame...all our friends turn on us, the more aid we give them...especially if they are already doing underhanded things to begin with.

To those who have taken the time to respond to my posts, I will simply say that the numerous false premises that you employ in support of your arguments - attributing positions, traits, religious beliefs, and national loyalties to me that I do not hold, and that I have never expressed, are pure speculation, and serve only to establish YOUR intrinsic, tribalistic, bigotry.

Here are some truths that represent some of my genuine positions:

“Real” Zionists are liberal, socialists!

“Real” liberal, socialists are not pacifists! 

Arab, islam is the most primitive and despicable example of extremist conservatism in the world.

There can be no bigger fool in the world than a right-wing, fascist, conservative, Jew or Black!

Hi! WriterOnTheStorm

I agree with your comments.

Earlier, within this comment section I asked a simple question dealing with the Jewish oath of Kol Nidre? All I got was ridicule or being called a liar and an anti-semite. But, my question was quite serious. I sure wish somebody could/would indicate to me whether this is an accurate account or description of the Kol Nidre. A link would be just great.

This is an oath which is recited by Jewish Folks every year. It justifies the absolvement of any agreements made with respect to non-Jews (Gentiles) during the course of the following year.

It says:

“And he who desires that none of his vows made during the year shall be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, ‘Every vow which I make in the future shall be null.’”
***

So, does this mean that Feith and Wolfovitz are able to testify under oath and swear on the bible to tell the truth .... and then just walk away while muttering the above oath silently to himself? Are they able to rely on or hide behind the Jewish oath of Kol Nidre?

I asked another question as well ....

Eretz Yisrael

“Eretz Yisrael is a means to an end. And what is that end? Serving G-d and keeping the Torah. That itself makes Eretz Yisrael central to our religion, because this is the only place where a Jew can keep all the mitzvot and serve G-d to the utmost. Besides the Land-related mitzvot, which can only be kept here, we have pointed out many times that all 613 mitzvot are more meaningful and on a higher level when kept in G-d’s Chosen Land. This idea is repeated again in parashat Re’eh.”

***
Definitions of the term and its earliest roots
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel

The opposite of those living under oath of ‘Eretz Yisrael’ is called ‘chutz L’aretz’ which means those who follow after the ideas of Eretz Yisrael but are constrained because they live in the US or whatever.

Is Eretz Yisrael not some sort of oath or an understanding between Jewish Folks?.

Is this not what Omert was referring to when he made this statement?

“Only a person in whose soul Eretz Yisrael burns knows the pain of letting go of our ancestral heritage”
--Ehud Olmert, May 4th 2006, speech to the Knesset whilst presenting the Unilateral Disengagement Plan--

Does not every Religious Jew have a yearning and desire for Eretz Yisrael? Is this not the dream of Jewish Folks? Does “Eretz Yisarel” not mean the “Greater Middle East” or the complete Jordan Valley? So, how is it that Libermann can stand up in Congress and vote for anything which lessens or diverts from “Eretz Yisrael”? How could Libermann or any other NeoCon ever be completely loyal to America when he has taken the oath or has the “desire” of “Eretz Yisrael”? If Jewish Folks have “Eretz Yisarel” as their conerstone of faith, how can they stand before the world or work inside any Western government and proclaim that they don’t have dual loyalties? .... And that it will always be Israel first and foremost?

Calm

Whenever the topic is Israel, the ADL plants and shills crawl out of the woodwork in these commentaries. Their job is not to defend Israel, but rather to take up space, to raise the level of white noise so that the good arguments are buried under 16 tons of name calling and rhetorical sludge.

When the better minds among the commentators engage these people (and we all know who they are), they are unwittingly playing into their hands. When we argue non-sequiters, historical cul-de-sacs, invidious lies and outright slander, we are serving their purpose.

They are attempting to change the agenda. They want the debate to unfold on their terms. Why not ignore them? If they truly believe the feeble arguments they present, they have not yet earned the right to dignified response on these pages. If they are merely trying to provoke, let them fester in silence.

Respond only to those whose comments reveal an open mind, and a willingness to learn. Take the time to share your thoughts only with those who are capable of empathy and compassion for EVERYONE in this unfortunate story. Ignore the others. Do not give in to the temptation to correct their obvious provocations. The readers of this blog are smart enough to know the difference.

If this State Department official had of said “I hate Israeli’s .... it would of been a hate crime.

Calm

I hate all Iranians, US aide tells MPs
By Simon Walters
September 29, 2007
SNIP
Britsh MPs visiting the Pentagon to discuss America’s stance on Iran and Iraq were shocked to be told by one of President Bush’s senior women officials: “I hate all Iranians.”

And she also accused Britain of “dismantling” the Anglo-US-led coalition in Iraq by pulling troops out of Basra too soon.

The all-party group of MPs say Debra Cagan, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Coalition Affairs to Defence Secretary Robert Gates, made the comments this month.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/ne ws.html?in_article_id=484762&in_page_id=1770&ito=ne wsnow

This is a great piece Chris and I encourage you to write more of them.
The next related piece could be on how many American Jews have joined ‘our’ military.
The New York times ran an op-ed piece, written by a Jewish high ranking Air Force official, about a year after Bush started his bombing of Iraq, which by the way was helped along by fake Israeli photos of ‘mobile WMD labs’. (I’ve lost the links, but the articles are easily found.)

The pilot asked “Where are the Jews in the American Military”.
Our candidates and our Congress are pushed by war loving hard liners of Israel and the United States, who in fact represent less than a third of the population of each country.  So far.

5 years later, how many more American Jews have heard the call to defend America, and Palestine and Lebanon and Israel, equally and with a ‘fair and balanced’ hand?
I hope that will be Part 11 of a lengthy series.