Check this story out folks.  Apparently, democratic pollsters aren’t even adding Kucinich to the list when conducting telephone polls.  Dirty politics I say, looks like we’re going to have to start hollering.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

reclusiveprogressive, you might want to look at today’s lead editorial in the New York Times.  It seeks to address differences in healthcare proposals by limiting its discussion to the three, so-called “leading” Democratic candidates, Obama/Clinton/Edwards, who have all offered sham “universal coverage” plans that amount to variable schemes to subsidize the health care insurance industry.  There is not one word about single-payer or Dennis Kucinich.

Our propaganda network, aka the corporate owned media, is tireless in its effort to prevent the public from linking candidates to issues that truly matter to the vast majority of the American people—the middle and working classes.  A recent blind poll reveals why.  It showed that when positions of all Democratic candidates were listed anonymously, one candidate received a whopping 58% of the vote.  The candidate associated with those positions was none other than Dennis Kucinich.  What the poll underscores is what Noam Chomsky refers to as a “democracy deficit”—the gap between where the American electorate stands on issues and the positions of elected office holders.

In Iowa, the corporatists have adopted a new tactic.  They simply excluded Kucinich and Gravel from the debate. 

Of course, neither the corporate owned media nor the corporatist sector of the Democratic party are entirely to blame for this sorry state of affairs.  The information is available to all from alternative media and the internet.  Real change will never occur until a majority of Americans cease being passive consumers of the propaganda, and instead assume the responsibility to acquire the knowledge that is an essential component of citizenship in a truly democratic society.

So long the majority of Americans look to the propaganda network, especially corporate owned television and the deceptive 30-second spot ads, as their primary source of information, the government they get will remain the government they deserve.

“Never have the philosophical distinctions among Democratic candidates been so small.”

Apparently only Clinton, Obama, and Edwards qualify as Democratic candidates in Dionne’s MSM simulacrum, and his quote is correct as far as that goes - but it doesn’t go very far.  You want philosophical distinctions?

Of all the Democratic presidential candidates,

- Who’s the ONLY one with a bill (HR 676) to establish single-payer, not-for-profit national healthcare?  Dennis Kucinich

- Who’s the ONLY one who voted against the Iraq war from the start, has voted consistently against funding it every since, and has a 12-step plan to get us out of there (HR 1234)?  Dennis Kucinich

- Who’s the ONLY one who has publically called for the impeachment of war criminal Dick Cheney (and introduced a resolution to the effect - HR 333)?  Dennis Kucinich

- Who’s the ONLY one who has vowed that his first act in office will be to pull the U.S. out of NAFTA and the WTO and create trade agreements that are actually based on workers’ rights rather than corporate greed?  Dennis Kucinich

- Who are the ONLY ones who support gay marriage?  Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich (see the sad truth for yourself on the LOGO presidential forum at this address: http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/2007/08/10/video-t he-presidential-forum/

- Who’s the ONLY one who intends to establish a Department of Peace (what a concept!) when he is elected President?  You guessed it.  Dennis Kucinich.

Check Dennis K. out at:
http://www.dennis4president.com/
http://www.35percenters.com/

Incidentally, for those of you who think that guy from New Mexico (Bill Richardson) is appealing to you as a candidate for change, consider that he stated on the LOGO presidential forum that he thinks homosexuality is a “choice.”  His defense of this forward-thinking claim was that he’s “not a scientist.”  This country deserves better than an anachronistic dipshit like that.

Compreing only the big money candiates to each other, means we have the same choices we have allways had, we get to choose from the best of the worst.

For anyone interested in finding out more about Dennis Kucinich, his policies and his positions you can easily go to: http://www.youtube.com and just put Dennis Kucinich in the search box.  There’s a wealth of information there. (in fact, pages and pages)

There is one video in particular though that I would watch.  The quality isn’t great but the content is very telling.  It’s a video of Dennis Kucinich (I’m guessing at around 30 yrs. old) when he was REELECTED Mayor of Cleveland, OH.  Tom Snyder of the Tomorrow show tries to diss Dennis, but Dennis holds his own without issue.  Check it out and dig that suit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtnVjM5pTn4

Maybe it’s hedging their bets.
Maybe it’s flat out bribery.
Maybe it’s just genuinely concerned citizens wanting to see the best candidate [for them] in office.

Whatever it is, it is interesting.

“Taking the Temperature of the Presidential Candidates Contributions from the Health Industry - January 1st to March 31st, 2007

HMOs, pharmaceutical companies, physicians and other health professionals.”

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/sickos-for-sale/c andidates/

Mudwollow:  the qualifier is “if they are accurately counted” as in, “If we all vote for Kucinich, he would win if the votes were accurately counted.”  In the words of Joseph Stalin, “Those who cast the votes decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything.”

If we all vote for Kucinich won’t he win…..?

Good question….Not at all sure.

ARE YOU JOKING?

THE TOP-RUNNERS ARE ALL PRO-WAR, EXCEPT RICHARDSON WHO WANTS OUT NOW.

GETTING OUT OF THE MIDEAST AND SLASHING THE WAR DEPT. AND FATHERLAND SECURITY BUDGETS ARE NOT DONE, DOMESTIC PROGRAMS WON’T HAPPEN.  AS DR. KING POINTED-OUT IN A SPEECH ABOUT A YEAR BEFORE HIS EXECUTION, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GUNS AND BUTTER IN AMERICA, JUST GUNS.

#101764 by Outraged

Thanks Outraged, you cleared it up for me. Now see, that’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about. You can make rationale dot-connections, and explain your theories with concrete stuff, (like the figures from Michael Moores website) and that’s the kind of information that I look for, when I ask these questions. And, that was an excellent source, (at least for me) because I know Michael Moore’s work enough to trust it. And, I do.

And, you’re also correct that MSM has totally ignored the other candidates. But, we’re all partially guilty of that, as I realized when I noted that riya (#101739) mentioned a candidate that even the alternative media has ignored, along with pretty much everybody else on this particular forum…

’... but why do they only show us Obama and Clinton?  I like the man from New Mexico, why do they, including supposed liberal press like the Huffington Post, ‘choose’ who we will choose?’

Good question, eh? That fellow from New Mexico, (Bill RIchardson) has as much to say as anybody, but how often do we hear of or from him? Not very. And, I too, LIKE HIS PLAN. His plan for Iraq and the middle east, is for the US to LEAVE, and to LEAVE NOW, and to even leave all of our shit behind. Let them keep what we’ve built on their soil, since we’ve destroyed everything they already had, and just get the hell out!!

No “phased” withdrawal that continues to cause unnecessary death, suffering, and economic collapse, and none of this, “we’ll draw back, but not out”.

So, I like him just fine on that, and I don’t have any other major “problems” with him either.

I’ve also been impressed by Gravel, but only from the very limited exposure that he’s received. Kucinich, the same. I have examined his supposed health plan, and while it looks good on paper, (as does the Constitution)it’s pretty lacking in specifics on how this is to be accomplished, in real terms. And, Gravel kind of succumbs to a few of the same weaknesses. Again, they’re great ideas, and I can get behind them. I just need to be able to visualize (at least to some degree), how the ideas are actually gonna produce the required result - REALISTICALLY.

Meantime, I was REALLY a fan of Dennis Kucinich when he initiated that impeachment legislation. But for whatever the reason, I’ve heard ZILCH on any progress he might have made on it. Like, is he even still working on it? Humm, I dunno. Maybe that was just some bait to throw at us? Or, maybe not…and he just can’t make it work out? Like… his intentions were good, but somehow he hasn’t been able to work it out yet? Maybe just not time to do the hard core politicking required making it work? Because, that’s the kind of stuff that we do get to look at, (on our own) even if the MSM refuses to cover these guys. And, one of the conventional wisdom indicators of “leadership” is the ability to bring your colleagues on board, and to rally them to the cause.  So, what’s up with that? It’s not like there isn’t an ocean of evidence to make it happen, and we’re assuming that he isn’t controlled by Nancy Pelosi, since he’s a Senator, and she’s not, and most of her bullying has been therefore confined to the House Dems, to bring them in line with what is in reality, the political agenda that serves the Oligarchy.

So, I guess we’ll just have to keep looking at them. Meantime, I’m gonna check out Bill Richardson some more, and I’ll keep my eye on Kucinich and Gravel at the same time, even though I fear that the real answer is from Louise. The next president will be Guiliani. Not democratically elected of course, but already appointed by the Thugs in power, as a (additional) reward for his participation in the 9-11 scam. That will be the seal of our fate.

Actually, ANY republican will spell the final/fatal stab,(if we even survive that long) but Guiliani is the most likely one to hold the knife next.

And, there’s still no safe place for the rest of us to run.

#101779 lodipete
…..”But where are the Democrats? Where are the union leaders? Where is sanity?”

Lodipete, this is a damn good commentary! I thoroughly enjoyed it, just because I’m addicted to fact and reality-based discourse. I love connecting the dots between cause and effect.

So, to answer the last part of your excellent essay, it really only requires repeating what you’ve said. The Dems are….? Well…off in another world I would presume, (at least most of them). Or…just downright COWED by the Thugs. The Union leaders went by the wayside oh so long ago, when this system was first instituted by Regan and his trickle down economics, that never trickled down, but rather set up the stage to be trickled OUT…as in OUT of the country. So, when I hear folks talking of this globalization and outsourcing and all of that, I realize that they’re finally figuring it out, even if a little late, since this started nearly 30 years ago, with Ronald Regan, and yet…most Americans believe him to have been a “wonderful” president, even though his economic policies spelled death to a huge percent of the populace.

And since then, the “cheaters”, (generally republicans) have been able to continue on that path, and to carry Louise’s theme a bit further; -  to therefore…SHAPE THE TERMS OF THE PUBLIC DEBATE AND DISCOURSE, so that it no longer focuses on what is good for the whole, but rather who benefits the most (from a clearly capitalistic standpoint) from whatever policies that debate might shape. And as we see, it doesn’t have to be a “majority”, of the populace that has to go along, once the agenda has been so thoroughly high-jacked.

So, that’s where we’ve lost the Dems and the sanity at the same time. It was an illusion that we could live with, (the insanity) as long as we could blame the repugs, who we know to be far-LESS-than-compassionate conservatives of the old republican party. We “assumed” that by changing the balance in the last election, that we could start to see some sanity, once we had a democratic-controlled Congress. BUT, we’ve been hoodwinked. The numbers are still against us, because of democrats like the Speaker of the House, Nancy ‘impeachment-off-the-table’ Pelosi, and all of the Blue Dog Dems that really have no different agenda than their republican counterparts. In short, we’ve been abandoned by all but a few, who work courageously on, in what is so often termed as “pissing in the wind”, (or a waste of time) even though it’s the grunt work that makes anything happen in a bureaucracy. I can sum it up as my sister does, “It’s ALL about ‘THEM’ (and ONLY them) ALL of the TIME!. (none of this “taking turns” or sharing even a sliver of the wealth).

And, that’s the mentality that has trickled down through the populace in the past 7 years, because they’re pretty much of the same mentality…one that basically portends that until I’m affected, (personally…me and mine), so what? I got mine, (good job, acquired wealth, “normal” friends and family, health insurance, etc.)
But then…OOPS. What happened? Now mine is gone too! All of my “acquired wealth” that I got from my “good job”, isn’t worth what it was worth before. Here again, when the neighbor loses his/her job, it’s a recession. When they lose their OWN, then it’s a “depression”.

And, at the end of the day, we’re screwed because issues of economic health, growth and survival, simply cannot be addressed from a one-sided debate dictated by a relatively small minority. (which the oligarchy is) without eventual collapse of the ENTIRE system, which is what has come about in the past 7 years.

With the highjacking of our democracy in the final stages (the coup d’etat) this is how it ends. Insanity reigns, unless we can in fact do as Chuck Hagel promised, which is to “self-correct”. Thing is, that’s not going to happen by the grace of God, and it’s not a pill (self-correction) that falls from the sky. It means that people have to actually THINK, and beyond their own bubbles.

Great comments one and all!

My two cents worth ...
It doesn’t matter who the dem candidate is, because the next president will be Giuliani.

OK, beat me with a wet noodle.

This whole “campaign” is a charade, a sham, and deep in our guts we all know it!

The cheaters who call themselves conservative have mastered the cheat. They have gained control of the media, and they STILL shape the debate!

[Witness the fiasco in congress this week, when the dems who wanted to debate the war caved in to the liars on the right and debated MoveOn!]

It really doesn’t matter how they cheat to control the outcome, but they will. And, as usual some dumb dem will have caved in somewhere to a contrived pressure which will be used against him/her to justify the “startling” upset!

Why Giuliani?
First hand ... hands on ... up close and personal knowledge of the 9/11 truth!
Payoff time.

By the way, I really do hope I’m wrong.
One other by the way ... the current debates, absent Kucinich, Gavel and Paul are so borrrring, no body is watching anyway.

E.J. Dionne is a corporate news hack who astutely evades all mention of Kucinich and Gravel, consistently ignores the fundamental difference between the straightforward stance of the willingness of those two candidates to say “enough” when it comes to Iraq; who, unlike the corporate shills—Obama, Clinton, Edwards—have been consistently calling for an immediate cut off of all funds; a would-be journalist who has never mentioned the fundamental distinction between the Conyers/Kucinich single-payer plan and the varying health care insurer subsidy scams offered by others and who wilfully refuses to recognize that there is only one candidate who is calling for a repeal of NAFTA and the WTO—Dennis Kucinich. 

And now Dionne wants to tell us that there is no difference in any of the Democratic candidates?  How would you know, Mr. Dionne when you limit the scope of your inquiry to only those candidates whom the corporatocracy finds acceptable?

To say there is no difference in positions of the candidates is to do as the AARP people did this week by excluding Kucinich and Gravell from the debate.

It would seem that the media (and I mean everybody!)in fact pre-determines who our choices are going to be.

You can put any and all important domestic issues in a bucket and slop the hogs with them if we “Stay the Course” in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? Because we are going to be flat assed broke! That’s why!!!

I don’t get it. The almighty dollar is worth 60 cents against the Euro. The Canadian dollar is now equal to the American dollar. The Saudis want to peg the price of oil to something other than the dollar. The Chinese want to dump dollars and they get an apology from Mattel for making poison toys. Dubai wants to buy 20% of the NASDAQ market and seems to be setting itself up as the new Switzerland. Our New World Order leaders are taking us down the path of Depression and all I hear from these people is the “strength of the American Economy”. Our good paying middle class jobs ,which created the greatest mass market for assorted crap ever, are being sent out of the country and those that manage to stay here are filled by H1B indentured servants or illegal immigrant slaves. Job growth? Where? the busboy and waiter industry? The Colossus of the North is walking around on papier mache stilts and there’s no one to catch him when he falls. So where’s the discussion on this stuff from the cantidates? I wouldn’t expect to hear it from the repubs;they screwed things up royally since 1994. But where are the Democrats? Where are the union leaders? Where is sanity?

If truth be told, the oligarchs are robbing us blind.  If truth be told, the oligarchs own the politicians. 

The Republicans would have us believe that the richer the oligarchs get, the better off the common man is.  We are to trust their wisdom.

The democratic candidate knows that the richer the oligarchs get the richer he’ll get and then he gives out ‘free’ bumper-stickers with pithy sayings honoring the nobility of the common man.

RE: #101726 by cyrena on 9/21

The next president, the one the people want, is remarkably “absent” on MSM.  It’s that loud silence I hear.

Clinton, Obama and Edwards are hollering “privatize” “privatize”,“privatize”, when it comes to healthcare.  They spew this garbage like the Bush administration spews Iran, Iran, Iran.  All that is, is more of the same.  This is the same ridiculous mantra of “stay the course” no matter what.  Don’t we already have privatized health care?

Campaign donations from the Healthcare Industry:

Hillary Clinton $848,872
Barrak Obama   $566,638
John Edwards   $212,200
Dennis Kucinich   $7,050
Mike Gravel       $500
(numbers are from Michael Moore’s site)

Clinton, Obama or Edwards will not throw stones, not while they’re in their glass houses.  Whereas, Kucinich and Gravel can throw all the stones they want.  So, of course the other three aren’t throwing stones…...THEY CAN’T.

Kucinich wins poll, after poll, after poll.  Yet they keep trying to convince us that a vote for Kucinich is a wasted vote.  REALLY?  If we all vote for Kucinich won’t he win…..?  The powers that be, want us to “accept” that Kucinich isn’t even in the race, but he is…..that’s all there is to it.

Excluding the crooks at the top, people needn’t worry about losing their jobs in the healthcare industry, they’ll be needed to run the new one.  Only, the crooks will be out of a job.

Well E. J., let me enlighten you about the ” Sameness” you see.
All candidates are owned and controlled by Big Business, hence, Corporate.
That is why those of us that are awake refer to our country as ” The Fascist Republic of Amerika”. To paraphrase Harry Truman…“Put ‘em in a paper bag and shake it and pull one out… they are all the same.”

The only difference between Hillary’s, Edwards’ and Obama’s “plans” on the healthcare ‘issue’ is quite clearly the name attributed to the stack of blank pages entitle “My Healthcare Issues.” These pages are intentionally left blank as none of these people plan to do anything, as not one of them has any real issue with healthcare; they’re covered! “They’ve got money coming out the whazoo!” as the highly illuminating but not all that funny e-Trade advertisement so visibly illustrated during the Super Bowl broadcast of 2000.

In other words, if you’ve got money coming out the whazoo, you don’t need health insurance. And if you don’t, then you can’t afford health insurance! So what good is it really?

I have no issue with America’s for profit health and welfare insurance monopolies. Everyone’s entitled to their just rewards in a capitalist society. However, the US government shouldn’t have involved the American people as unwilling co-conspiritors to this monopoly. And that’s the problem, they did, where they shouldn’t have. Now, they must undo the harm they have done in creating this monster they so lovingly refer to now as “America’s Healthcare Crisis.”

How do they plan to do this? They don’t!

They know that hundreds of institutional and private wall-street investors, thousands of executive directors, tens-of-thousands of mid-level managers and hundreds of thousands of hard working information technology geeks, paper-pushers, call-center-staffers and bean-counters of all shapes and sizes in America and abroad rely upon this Crisis in Healthcare to support their increased stock value, to suport themselves, and to support their families.

In other words, who of these so called “Democratic” candidates plans to stifle the only segment of America’s faltering economy that is actually creating jobs for Americans? Especially when the insurance companies are spending as much of their own hard earned money to get one of these pre-elected, media-minute-made puppets appointed to the presidency.

The time is ripe for changes, there’s a growing feeling that taking a chance on a new kind of vision is due!

The last thing American’s need is more oonsensus amongst the conspiritors!

I don’t even know how to agree to disagree.  What a shame, what a shame for us all.  I’m just hoping that whatever democrat gets elected gets us on the uphill slope of getting out of this mess. Whatever one.  And hope.  Hope. 

How sad this is for me; I have two beautiful little girls that I tell wonderful stories to at night.

But whatever it is, my 82 year old mom says, she’s seen them all. I don’t know what to make of that.  I hope for the best, but why do they only show us Obama and Clinton?  I like the man from New Mexico, why do they, including supposed liberal press like the Huffington Post, ‘choose’ who we will choose?
Oh I know, I was just dreamin….

#101711 by Outraged

Outraged, I’m clueless. Who will the next democratic president be? (maybe I don’t tune-in enough to MSM).

So, gimme a hint. We’re definitely talking about dem vs repug, right?

Though this article mentions all of the same candidates that you mentioned about living in glass houses and throwing stones, I’m just curious about the “stones” that Edwards and Obama have been allegedly throwing from their glass houses. (I won’t argue the glass house part, but I am curious about the stones).

I just haven’t seen many from Edwards, (though I guess he’s thrown a few) and I’ve witnessed even fewer from Obama, because he hasn’t been on the scene long enough. Hillary is a different matter, but only because she HAS been on/in the scene for so much longer. So naturally, we can find a whole lot more to criticize there. She’s got a longer history, and some of her corporate ties are overtly strong and we’ve had a chance to see that she’s got the same connections to the same sources that the repugs use. The corporate elite.

I don’t see John Edwards as having quite those same ties, and quite frankly, there’s nothing that connects Barack Obama to them either, unless we’re penalizing him for attending Harvard Law School, and working as a professor at a Catholic University. The guy is 45 years old, (maybe 46 now), and he did not come from a wealthy or corporately connected background. So, how did he get the same status as Hillay Clinton and John Edwards,(as a glass house liver and stone thrower) in so short a time?

Just curious.

Obama, Clinton or Edwards will not be the next democratic president, no matter what propaganda polls eschew. Have you checked Clinton’s petition on thepetitionsite.com, she doesn’t have a whole lot of takers’. (Frontrunner?...HA.)  Bye Clinton, Bye Obama, Bye Edwards, been real nice, but don’t let the screen door hit cha’ on the way out.  It’s quite obvious that MSM knows who the next democratic president will be.

Clinton, Obama, and Edwards are made of glass, everyone sees right through them.  Like they say…..people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Thankfully, there are those who EARN their keep.  Likewise, there are those who have noticed.