That fact that mainstream media, and mainstream commentators, political leaders, and religious nuts have not focused on issues such as IBM’s heavy involvement (and cash rich) relationship with Nazi Germany before and during WWII—and that this lucrative relationship exacerbated (though it didn’t cause) the holocaust—shows how little they really care about the Jews (or anyone else—for that matter—including Palestinians).

(For anyone who wants to find out about this issue, read IBM AND THE HOLOCAUST, by Kevin Black).

Ms. Amy (Goodman), I’ve noticed, has mentioned this relationship between IBM and Nazi Germany (or at least, some of her guests have, such as Noam Chomsky—wouldn’t you know!) on DEMOCRACY NOW.  I don’t think, however, that she has interviewed Mr. Black, unfortunately.  I wish she would.  A whole show devoted to him and his book would be nice.  After all, even though THE HISTORY CHANNEL has had Mr. Black on a documentary dealing with some of the Arab leaders who allied themselves with Nazi Germany during WWII, this was a “safe” topic for mainstream media to handle since it didn’t deal with a major American corporation that
colluded with the Nazis.

The fact that those on this board who virtually make demons out of all Palestinians also don’t mention IBM and its role in the Holocaust—nor Norman Finkelstein or Raul Hiberg (or a thousand other things)—should at least give any thinking person pause.

This is not to say that they are wrong to sympathize with the Jews in Israel—certainly Israel has a right to exist in peace as do all peoples . . . but so do the Palestinians, and in better conditions than Israel allows them to.

But it should also be remembered that Israel persecutes its own Jewish citizens, like Robert Vanunu.  In addition, Jews from areas like Morocco were discriminated against by the the Israeli State since its founding, and are/were considered “inferior Jews” by many in the state apparatus.  (See THE RINGWORM CHILDREN documentary.)

One might wonder what makes suicide bombers. 

Something most Americans don’t want to think about in regards to terrorist actions here (both from US “homegrown” terrorist organizations and those abroad wanting to “destroy our way of life").

So why would Americans wonder why there are suicide bombers in Palestine? They don’t. They don’t care. Firstly, Britney is more important! Secondly, they get negative views of Palestinians from the media, which they believe.  Otherwise, I think more people might sympathize with a people suffering as much as the Palestinians, without a place in the world, unsafe in their homes and unable to have freedom of movement.

Apparently, the majority of Israelis/Jews don’t want to consider what makes someone so desperate, without anything to lose, that they become a suicide bomber.  Yet, this is such an important question!  Better to build a wall than think about it, eh?

If Israel wants to blight their landscape with a wall so that they don’t have to look at serious issues regarding why there are bombers, I suppose that’s fine.  However, why did Israel build the wall going through/cutting off Palestinians even more?  Why, and more importantly *how* can they treat Palestinians as sub-human, when they know, historically, how that feels and what dangers lie in seeing other human beings as monsters unworthy of life, land and freedom?

In the psychology of abuse, there is a very real danger of a victim becoming a victimizer.  You see this happen in families where abuse continues through generations - One abused then abuses.  As everyone but insane holocaust deniers knows, Jews went through horrific abuse: absolute powerlessness, loss of life, land, family.

Of course, not *all* abused people become abusers, but the serious possibility is there.  One might consider how this could be playing itself out with Israel.  I do, when seeing how Israel treats others now that it has a big stick (the US) after thousands of years of powerlessness.  Unfortunately, I think the US could not care less about Israel, but uses them to destabilize the Middle East.

Why else would a bunch of Europeans and Americans have chosen *that* land for Israel?  There was plenty of land in Europe and America to have given Jews as safe haven.  Keeping people’s fears on constant wars/etc keeps their minds from working on their own cultural problems and building great societies which may have otherwise become a threat to the reigning world powers.

So it goes - History constantly repeats.

The only thing that gives me hope about the Arab/Israel conflict are those people on both sides working together to understand each others lives, hopes, fears, traditions, etc.  Many of them are working to end occupation as well, but the work of really getting to know each other is probably what is going to make the *real* difference, though it will take a *long* time.

I used to oppose the wall like most good students in Middle Eastern Studies.  I felt shame as Jewish woman that Israel was acting too aggressively and repressing the Palestinian communities.  But over the past years, as the liberal movement to which I consider myself aligned has moved more and more towards the Palestinian POV, ironically, I have found myself moving more and more towards Israel’s.

The wall which is so criticized has reduced suicide bombings in Israel by 90%.  When people speak about the continuous presence of Israeli soldiers in the lives of Palestinians, it is important to also speak about the less visible but no less continuous presence of Palestinian suicide bombers in the lives of Israelis. 

After the failure at Camp David and the start of the Second Intifada, Israel’s leadership maintained that they would work towards peace when they had a credible peace partner.  Like my Arab counterparts in my classes, I thought they were stalling.  But when Arafat died and Abu Mahzen, who had a track record of speaking against suicide bombings, took his place, Sharon did talk with him.  Then Sharon initiated and carried out the unilateral withdrawal of Israel from Gaza.

And in response?  Palestinians overwhelmingly elected Hamas to leadership in an election that was supervised by international monitors and declared to be legitimate.  Hamas, who refuses to acknowledge Israel’s right to exist, even in the face of international withdrawal of aid. 

Israel has made tangible movements towards peace.  Palestinians have continued to choose violent resistance.  I remain sympathetic towards the situation in which Palestinians live.  I believe that Palestinians and Israelis can and will co-exist.  But I do not believe that the wall can or should come down until Palestinians are committed to co-existence and non-violent resistance.

Shall we forget about suicide bombers blowing up Israeli restaurants and buses? What about the rockets? If Israelis had the same security as Iraqis they would probably get your sympathy.

1drees, since you consider Zionist to be fascist idiots you will not listen to us, and think of talking to us as an act beneith contempt.  It is not carter’s criicism of Israel that brought him critcism, but his playing fast and loose with the truth.

Jimmy Carter got his attitude toward Israel from his childhood attendance at a Southern Baptist Sunday School.  He believes that Israel is wicked, because that is what he was taught long ago on hot summer days in south Georga.  Carter never changed his mind about Jews and Israel.  Critics have pointed out numerous factual errors, all slanted against Israel.  Carter holds his book to be the infallible truth, without errors or omissions. 

Reputable scholars have accused Carter of pulling statements and events out of context.  For example Carter ignored the impact of the Holocaust on the Palestinian Jewish community, and the role that one pf the two most important Palestinian leaders of the 20th century played in the holocaust.  Carter ignored the fact that this endited war criminal and holocaust perpetrator, Amin al Huessani, was the Palestinian leader in 1948.

Carter virtually lionizes Yasser Arafat.  He ignores Arafat’s corruption, and ignores Arafats numerous criminal acts against Jordanian and Lebanese Arabs, as well as the criminal violence Arafat directed toward his Palestinian enemies. Carter contradicts acoounts by Bill Clinton and Dennis Ross of the Camp David and subsequent negotiations.  Carter in effect accuses Clinton and Ross of lying about negotiations they were a party too.  Carter contradicts his own prior accounts of meetings and negotiations with Arab and Israeli leaders.  He contradicts the statements of other attendees, of the same meetings and negotiations.  One would hope that critics of Israel would maje a serious effort to get their facts right.  Carter, a typical antizionist, doesn’t. Carter in his disdain for truth and hostility to Israel may not rise to antisemitism, but he certainly exhibits an irrational bigotry.  In the South of my childhood we called people like Jimmy Carter rednecks.

Jimmy carter didnt really need to go all Honest and invite the ire of the fascist Zionistic idiots BUT for some reason way beyond my comprehension he did do it and my close Zinistic frineds pointed it out to me ( by their choice of words regarding him).
He has lived his era and he danced to the tunes that he needed to dance to and his era had ended quite quietly BUT his criticism of Israel has brough him into the crosshairs of all AmeroZionists, which is not the best position to be in, given the kind of harassment one faces for being anti-israel. why si he doing it is way beyond me, its certainly not that the Americans have been very honest or moral or anythign positive sincea long time, i mean read through various sources and you learn all about the truths pertaining to various war lies and other lies that US govts been telling since ages and then no need to forget the USS LIBERTY incident. when beaten Americans were ordered never to ever repeat the truth by their own generals.
Dont really understand Carter at all.

Ahm. Could someone explain this passage to me: “The Israelis never see a Palestinian, except the Israeli soldiers. The Palestinians never see an Israeli, except at a distance, except the Israeli soldiers.”?

Now, it is true that the palestinians demand their land to be Juden-free. And yes, Jews cannot safely live in those territories right now. But there are more than a million of palestinians in the State of Israel, who have all rights, and who are protected by the Israeli government. Granted, Jimmy Carter was always known for being an imbecile, but he is clearly getting worse and worse with each passing day.

As to the comparison of the Berlin Wall and the Separation Wall. For those who are ignorant of history - the Berlin Wall was built by the communists in order to keep the people in perpetual left-wing slavery, to prevent them from escaping into the right-wing paradise. The Separation Wall is built to prevent the moslem terrorists from entering Israel and killing innocent people. In other words, these two walls are just as similar - as the concentration camp wall, and the walls which are built by farmers to protect their sheep from the wolves. I hope this clarifies the issue.

This man of peace has been railed as antisemitic because he speaks the truth.  True antisemitism is growing in this country everyday.  For now these ignorant individuals are observing, but when their misplaced anger and hatred comes to the surface, their actions will rival the last Jewish holocaust.