(Continued from previous post)

I began investigating ATASCO in August 2006. As a matter of fact, I spoke with Shalom Yoran, the Israeli chairman of this now defunct Israeli company, about six hours before three undercover police arrived at my house and, without cause or provocation, TASERed me and broke my elbow in front of my family on August 15, 2006.
I had come across Shalom Yoran’s name while researching Amit and Naftali Yoran, the suspicious young Israelis who oversaw cyber-security for the U.S. government and military computers prior to and after 9-11.
Shalom Yoran has an extremely suspicious and unusual profile for an Israeli immigrant to the United States. He was in the original Israeli air force of 1948 and is a founder and former head of Israel Aircraft Industries. Yoran was instrumental in building the IAI into an internationally recognized company and the largest industry in Israel.
Before Yoran emigrated to the U.S., which is very unusual for Israelis of his age and with his high-level military background, he had spent the previous ten years as senior vice president of IAI and as president of IAI’s parent company, Bedek. Israelis like Yoran don’t come to America as immigrants ­ they are sent there on a mission.
Israel Aircraft Industries was established in 1953 as Bedek Aviation Company, five years after the establishment of the State of Israel. Today, Bedek is the senior group of Israel Aerospace Industries, and specializes in aircraft operation, conversion, maintenance, and overhaul.
In 1975, when Yoran “left” Bedek and IAI at the unusually young retirement age of 50, the corporation had 22,000 employees, of which 4,000 worked in the Bedek Division. In reality, Yoran didn’t leave Bedek and IAI at all; he was sent by the Israeli military to the United States to manage one of their most important operations ­ ATASCO.
In his on-line biographies, Yoran says he was appointed to this position: “When he retired at the age of 50 [ca. 1975], he was appointed the President of Atasco, an American Flight company for cargo shipment and maintenance.”
His 2003 biography on the website of Tel Aviv University (TAU) has a similar tale: “At the age of 50, Shalom Yoran retired from the Israel Aircraft Industries. In 1978 he moved to the U.S. where he became chairman of ATASCO USA - a private aircraft trading and service company. ATASCO bought and leased airplanes to major airlines around the world. The company also had an aircraft maintenance and modification plant in Smyrna, TN.”
“Shalom Yoran continues to be chairman of ATASCO USA,” the 2003 TAU entry noted.
How could an Israeli be appointed to be president or chairman of an “American” company, unless the company were actually an Israeli company?
THE ATASCO-BEDEK CONNECTION
ATASCO USA was, of course, created and owned by the Israeli military and connected to the Mossad, but this information is not easily found.
There has only been one article that I have found that mentions what ATASCO has been doing for the past 36 years in the United States, since it was first created by the Israeli Defense Ministry in 1971. 
That article, entitled “Ugandan Plane Deal Believed Key to Israeli Spy Operation,” was published in the Washington Post of September 11, 1978.

(Continued from previous post)

This investigative article, which involved an international team of journalists that included an Israeli, focused on a “mysterious Israeli tycoon and the Mossad, Israeli’s intelligence service” and how they had provided the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin with two Boeing 707 jetliners as part of an Israeli effort to spy on Libya.
The “big winner” and tycoon in this Mossad spying operation was Shaul Nehemia Eisenberg (1921-1997), “the reclusive Israeli entrepreneur at its center.”
Eisenberg was, as the Washington Post reported in 1978, the central figure in the Mossad spying operation on Libya:
The chief Eisenberg firm in these deals was Aircraft Trading and Services Inc., or Atasco. Headquartered in Asia House, Eisenberg’s luxury building in Tel Aviv, Atasco also has branches in the “Eisenberg Building” in New York and in London.
Atasco was put together in 1971 by executives of Israeli Aircraft Industries, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Israeli Defense Ministry that makes planes and missiles.
Eisenberg got into Atasco as an equal partner with Israeli Aircraft for $500,000 in cash. After the 1973 Middle East War, Israeli Aircraft, staggered by scandals, sold its share in Atasco to Eisenberg, leaving him its sole owner.
The rest of Atasco’s original capital, $5 million, came from the U.S. Export-Import Bank, which is supposed to make loans to promote American exports.
The Ex-Im Bank certainly found the right man in Eisenberg. He quickly turned into an eager customer for Pan American Airways’ used Boeing 707s.
Atasco bought 12 or 15 of the advance series “C” 707s that Pan Am was selling and purchased six out of ten earlier series “C” 707s being sold by the airline.
At its Israeli hangars, currently jammed with 707s bearing obscure markings, Atasco remodels the interiors to suit customers and paints on their proud colors - Iran Air, Tarom of Romania, Uganda Airlines.
In May 1976, Atasco sold the 707 that was once Pan Am’s “Clipper Jupiter” to a firm in Zurich, which dealt it on the Amin.
Intelligence sources say that the head of this Zurich firm is a 15-year veteran of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and the firm is an agency “laundry.” It exists, these sources say, to pass on Mossad funds for deals in which the Israeli secret service is interested.
The Washington Post, one of the most important newspapers in the United States, is a leading national newspaper of record. Oddly, however, the extremely important information contained in this article about ATASCO was never repeated in any of the subsequent articles in which this mysterious company was mentioned. For example, when Gerald L. Gitner, a key aviation executive with Pan Am, TWA, and a host of smaller airlines, was appointed Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of ATASCO USA, Inc.
In 1986, when Gitner became CEO of the Israeli-owned company with a documented history of murky business it was simply described as a New York aircraft leasing and brokerage company. ATASCO’s previously published history of involvement in Mossad operations was never mentioned.
Gitner, who was CEO of Mossad’s “privately held” aircraft leasing and maintenance company until 1990, was involved in the dismemberment and selling off of the assets of the once prosperous airlines Pan Am and TWA.
In October 1986, when Gitner was appointed CEO of the Mossad-run ATASCO U.S.A. Inc., he was or had been a senior executive with PanAm Corp. and TWA. He was the president of Texas Air Corp., the holding company for Continental Airlines and New York Air, when he was appointed president and CEO of ATASCO U.S.A., “a private aviation concern involved in commercial aircraft leasing and heavy aircraft maintenance.”
Gitner was also co-founder and president of People Express Airlines. The Houston Chronicle of October 3, 1986, however, only identified ATASCO as “an aircraft leasing and brokerage company.”

(Continued from previous)

EISENBERG ­ “WORLD ENTREPRENEUR”
In November 1982, when Eisenberg became involved in the Tregaron deal and tried to take over a large piece of prime real estate in Washington, D.C., the Washington Post wrote about Mossad’s “world entrepreneur” and Israel’s point man in China ­ and Panama:
Eisenberg was profiled in a 1981 Business Week article as a businessman of enormous wealth, diversity of business interests, and a proclivity for secretiveness in his dealings. He owns a worldwide network of corporations. His largest company, United Development Inc., was set up in Panama in 1960.
Eisenberg essentially acts as a middleman, according to reports on his dealings, assembling consortiums of manufacturers, builders and banks to construct industrial facilities of all types.
Since Eisenberg was the “sole owner” of ATASCO since 1973, the Mossad’s “aircraft trading and services” company naturally began its murky business on the American continent in Panama.
In 1978 the Washington Post reported that there were “frequent but unsubstantiated reports that Eisenberg operates mostly from Central America.” Eisenberg was the “Panamanian honorary general consul in Tel Aviv,” the Post reported.
The first mention of ATASCO other than the 1978 article in the Washington Post was in the New York Times on October 29, 1981, when it reported that Emery Air Freight had purchased a Boeing 727-100 from Atasco-Panama.

(Continued from)

IDF - ISRAELI DRUG FORCES?
Israel Aircraft Industries also has a branch in Bogota, Colombia, IAI Sucursal Colombia, a nation known more for the production and distribution of cocaine than aircraft. Why would IAI establish aircraft leasing and maintenance facilities in Colombia and Panama? 
Is airlifting drugs a central part of the IAI operations in Latin America? Does the Mossad use IAI facilities in Colombia to run its own drug smuggling routes to fund its operations? Does Mossad drug smuggling involve American politicians and intelligence agencies which it then controls?
There are a number of indications that the Mossad is deeply involved in the Colombian drug trade. The horde of Mossad operatives who were disguised as Israeli art students in the years prior to 9-11 were known to have been targeting the offices and personnel of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). Why would the Mossad be seeking to penetrate the DEA if it were not involved in drug smuggling?
It is also well known that Israeli gangs are heavily involved in illicit drug smuggling. A disproportionately large number of Israelis have been arrested in Europe and the United States with large amounts of narcotics and synthetic drugs such as Ecstasy. Are these the small fry of a much large Israeli presence in the illegal drug trade?
The rumors about the Bush and Clinton families being involved in large scale drug smuggling operations are legion. From George H.W. Bush’s days in the Texas oil business and as head of the CIA to his position as a director of the Prozac giant Eli Lilly and Co., the drug trade is a central part of the Bush family legend.
The allegations about Gov. Bill Clinton’s involvement in the drug smuggling operation in Mena, Arkansas are also legion. Aircraft were used to smuggle drugs and weapons through the airport in Mena in the 1980s while Gov. Clinton protected the entire operation. 
“Given the scope and implications of the Mena story, it may be easy to understand the media’s initial skepticism and reluctance,” Sally Denton and Roger Morris wrote in their July 1995 article “The Crimes of Mena”:
Mena, from 1981 to 1985, was indeed one of the centers for international smuggling traffic. According to official I.R.S. and D.E.A. calculations, sworn court testimony, and other corroborative records, the traffic amounted to thousands of kilos of cocaine and heroin and literally hundreds of millions of dollars in drug profits. According to a 1986 letter from the Louisiana attorney general to then U.S. attorney general Edwin Meese, [Adler Berriman Seal, or “Barry”] Seal “smuggled between $3 billion and $5 billion of drugs into the U.S.”
Seal had been a pilot with TWA from 1966 to 1974, according his on-line biography. Gitner, who began his career at TWA in 1968 was a vice president when he also left TWA in 1974 to join the much smaller Texas International Airlines.
The numerous reports and allegations of involvement in drug smuggling are what the Bush and Clinton families have in common. These are the families which have dominated the executive branch of the United States government since 1981. There has been either a Bush or Clinton in the White House for the past 26 years, since January 1981.
Is the illegal drug business something the Bush’s and Clinton’s have had a hand in with Israel’s Mossad?
If the reports, allegations, and rumors are true, the illegal drug trade is where the interests of the Bush family, the Clintons, the CIA and the Mossad all come together. This would explain the choice to invade and occupy Afghanistan, where opium production is now at record levels after having been nearly eradicated under the Taliban regime.
This would explain the unusual pressure to medicate the 9-11 relatives. 
It appears that drug smuggling could very well be the illegal enterprise at the center of the criminal network behind 9-11. This is a subject that certainly deserves further investigation.

(Continued from previous post”

“CLIPPER JUPITER” AND ZIMEX AVIATION
In the 1978 article about Eisenberg and the Mossad the Washington Post reported that ATASCO had sold the Boeing 707, which had been Pan Am’s “Clipper Jupiter,” to a firm in Zurich, which had immediately transferred ownership to Idi Amin in Uganda:
Intelligence sources say that the head of this Zurich firm is a 15-year veteran of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and the firm is an agency ‘laundry.’ It exists, these sources say, to pass on Mossad funds for deals in which the Israeli secret service is interested.
Pan Am’s “Clipper Jupiter,” with tail registration number N766PA, was sold to a Zurich-based company called Zimex Aviation on May 12, 1976. The same day, Zimex Aviation transferred the plane with a new tail number, 5X-UAL, to Uganda Airlines.
The “15-year veteran of Mossad” would be Hans Ziegler, who headed Zimex as reported in The Oregonian on August 22, 1988:
Charles Hanner, then a Page [Airways] vice president, testified by deposition that he had been introduced to Amin by Hans Ziegler, a veteran agent of Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence service. Ziegler’s Swiss company, Zimex Aviation, had sold a number of aircraft to Middle Eastern potentates and to Amin’s friend Moammar Khadafy, the Libyan dictator.
ATASCO TIES TO 9-11
Gitner reportedly stayed with ATASCO from October 1986 through December 1989. In 1989, Gitner was appointed to head Presidential Airways of Herndon, Virginia.
Gitner later served on the board of directors of another Mossad-run company, ICTS, which is one of the key defendants in the 9-11 litigation. Along with a handful of senior Israeli Mossad veterans, Gitner was a director of ICTS from at least 1997 through 2005. Most significantly, he was a director of the Israeli parent company which was responsible for airline security and passenger screening at Boston’s Logan Airport on 9-11.
International Consultants on Targeted Security (ICTS) International, N.V. is the Mossad-run company that owns Huntleigh USA, the airline security company that oversaw the passenger screening operation at Boston and Newark airports on September 11, 2001.
How would Gitner be a director or CEO of a Mossad-run company like ATASCO or ICTS if he were not working for the Mossad? Has Gerald Gitner from Boston been working with the Israelis since he began at TWA in the late 1960s? Is this the reason he left TWA and began working for Texas International?

(Continued from previous post)

“BOEING 767 CONVERSIONS - BEDEK’S SPECIALTY
IAI is “a world leader in aircraft conversion and modernization programs, unmanned air vehicles (UAVs), communication programs and defense electronics,” according to the company’s website.
Shalom Yoran’s company, Bedek Aviation Group, reportedly converted its first Boeing 767 from a passenger to cargo jet in early 2000.
The converted passenger jet was the first of 11 767s to be converted for Airborne-Express, according to the Jerusalem Post of April 4, 2000.
“Bedek is one of the world’s leaders in plane conversions,” the Israeli newspaper reported.
In early 2001, Bedek delivered a refurbished Boeing 707 refueling tanker for the Israeli air force, according to the Jerusalem Post of February 22, 2001.
“The number of [Israeli] refueling tankers is classified,” the Post reported. “The first 707 air refueling tanker converted for the Air Force was delivered 20 years ago.”
This Israeli report indicates that Bedek has been converting Boeing aircraft into tankers since the early 1980s.
“The main benefit of this present aircraft is in its versatility, its quick conversion from a refueling tanker to a cargo jet. In this way, the aircraft can be used as a cargo plane in times of peace and a refueling tanker in an emergency,” an IAI statement said.
IAI IN MIAMI ­ COMMODORE AVIATION
“Boeing has been working with Israel Aircraft Industries Ltd. for 30 years,” the Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported in October 1998.
Miami International Airport has long been the site of one of Bedek’s maintenance stations, along with Paris, Moscow, Baku and Bajkal, according to the Jerusalem Post of January 13, 1995.
The Bedek operation in Miami was known as Commodore Aviation. IAI and Bedek had “offices in Arlington, Va.; New York City; Princeton, N.J., for its Galaxy Aerospace subsidiary; and in Miami for its Commodore Aviation unit,” according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer article from 1998.
Florida Gov. Jeb Bush made a four-day trade mission to Israel in November 1999 during which he appealed to the state-owned Israel Aircraft Industries to expand their business operations in Florida.
IAI’s Miami-based Commodore Aviation was already the largest Israeli business presence in Florida in 1999 with about 500 employees, The Stuart News (Florida) reported.
In 2003, Commodore Aviation, “part of IAI’s Bedek Aviation Group,” pulled out of Miami, reportedly owing nearly a million dollars to the Miami airport and moved to Rome, New York, where it renamed its operation the “Empire Air Center.”
“Commodore has been searching for a new location since June 2002 and owes $800,000 in back rent to Miami International Airport, where it’s currently based,” South Florida CEO reported in May 2003 when it announced Commodore Aviation’s move to New York and name change.
Like ATASCO, Commodore has been funded by the U.S. taxpayer. Commodore Aviation made money by its move to the former Griffis Air Force Base, where it operates in a massive hangar in which B-52 bombers and tankers were once serviced.
The move profited Commodore, which received some $25 million in grants and tax incentives from federal and New York sources, the Jerusalem Post reported on November 21, 2003.
“The whole relocation didn’t cost IAI one dollar,” said Gerry Stoch, New York state’s economic attache in Israel.”

http://www.rense.com/general78/issr.htm

AZ ARROW, I have to admit that I am a raver, but I am too dignified to kick chairs. Maybe I should ask Fisk about this, as Fisk is the one that created this “straw man” in order to shield his terrified ass, but can I be a raver and NOT a chair kicker? Because I sort of like “ravers” so long as they don’t kick chairs. I’m a raver because I knew 911 was an inside job the moment the planes hit the towers. I didn’t rave very loudly, but I knew, just because God and nature made me wise instead of a fool.

I remember writing to a few email correspondents I had, all of whose reactions were as one: “Wha! Huh? How did you come up with THAT!” Some wrote: “Man, you’re talking treason!” I secretly smiled. I’ve been knowing about this kind of thing for a very long time, but how could I tell anybody? “Wha! Huh? How did you come up with THAT!” I’ve only heard this response about 1,000+ times.

I was beginning to believe I was the “Omega Man,” the only man on earth that didn’t catch the disease of stupidity when a stupidity plague constituted itself a while back and infected man, propelling him into a living, breathing Twilight Zone of fantasy.

I must have been immune to the bug. Hooray!

Then the inevitable happened. About the first glimmering I noticed that somebody else was wise to 911 came when somebody posted on the Internet a graphic depiction of one of the flights crashing into WTC, captured on film firing what appeared to be a missile into the building just before impact.

Then I watched in amusement as the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Forgive me if you can, but I experienced a great sense of satisfaction that man was not even nearly as imbecilic as I have always known him to be. Could the Internet be a new kind of brain for man? If so, I may have to revise my long held, deeply educated belief: that there is no hope for man. Based upon all past experiences, I truly had every reason to believe that only maybe a hundred or so on the entire planet would tumble to the “rise in BushCheneyCo’s Levi’s.” These rapists of humankind definitely had huge erections and they were plunging them into every American, but I have to say Praise the Lord, with this many now aware that America is getting gang raped, there may be an ever so thin ray of hope for man after all. It doesn’t mean that he will entirely survive the rigors of his idiocy, but he may go extinct with at least the brain of a two-year-old instead of that of a new born.

Buried Interview Proves Bush Set Iraq War Before 911

This is a great video that everyone needs to watch that shows the Bush regimes main goal from day 1 in office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWkGhV3PsLo

#107278 by john monto

John,

I’m presuming that your comments are directed to the author. (and he does indeed reference ‘plots’ in multiple Middle Eastern Nations.

Still, the article is directed at the events of 9/11 (and spefically to the WTC in Manhattan. And, while you’re admitting that no journalist could ever submit a ‘true’ story on 9/11 (or expect it to be published) swing over to this:

“..But lets talk about Iran’s suppression of the media. Hmmm. It doesn’t look all that different.”...

So, my question is, do you believe that Iran’s suppression of the media, (which we sort of ‘know’ as a given in that country) has any connection at all to the Bush Administration’s suppression of the media -HERE- in respect to 9/11?

I mean, granted…the Iranians regime does in fact control a great deal of their media, (we know this) and so there may in fact be similarities between the two regimes, (the US Cabal and the Iranian regime) in respect to the suppression of the media. But, do you think that has anything to do with what occured, here in NYC on 9-11-2001?

Because, THAT’S what we’ve been talking about on this thread, and with this story? So far, the “questioning” of 9/11 doesn’t seem to bring Iran into the theme at all, unless we were using it as one example (the planned attack on Iran by the Cheney Admininstration) of the whole reason that 9/11 was perpetrated to begin with.

In other words, first there was the mythical connection of Saddam Hussein to the events of 9/11, in order to convince the American people to support an illegal invasion and permanent occupation of Iraq. Within this same administration, similar myths have been USED to drum up business for the attack on Iran, (thought it’s only the WMD accusations this time, rather than any connection to 9/11).

So, that leaves me with the question…do YOU believe that Iran was somehow connected to 9/11? (I do NOT, since I’m certain that it was perpetrated from within). Still though, is that your point in bringing up the suppression of the media in Iran?

Otherwise, I don’t see a connection. I just see that yes, Iran surpresses some media, just as the US does, though I believe the US has done far more of that, and on a far larger scale than the much smaller Irananian regime/population.

#106765 by Robert
•  Cyrena, do you ever wonder if any of those people who are/were involved with 9/11 out there…if he/she/they are reading our comments?
I wonder what are they thinking and saying to each other or themselves. We may have discussed something that really actually happened and they were a part of it or know the full details of the classified information. They are probably saying, “Wow…that is pretty close. Just imagine if these guys knew its the truth or very close to it.”
Robert, Oh YES. I not only ‘wonder’ – I know this is the deal…just as you’ve described. And, I’m glad you know it too. (But then, you’ve always been good at figuring this stuff out.)
Still, this is one of the reasons that I believe I was ‘shitcanned’ from my long term employment. At the time, I really DIDN’T ‘know’ anything. Not even a clue. But, ‘they’ must have ‘assumed’ that I did, or at least felt that I might be a threat (by a simple connection of the dots- figuring it out.). Now of course since I actually WAS ‘in the dark’ it’s only been in hindsight, that I’ve come to make the connections, and of course I’m not in a position to ‘validate’ or otherwise ‘document’ most of the stuff. I ALSO would NEVER have made the CIA/MOUSSAD connection if I not for this miraculous internet, (and TD) that allows for a sharing of info among us. You all have come up with pieces of information that are critical, that no ONE person could really find out on their own. There’s just too much info out there, and most of it is intended to distract, disinform, etc, etc. So, finding stuff, (like Rummy’s slip of the tongue about the missile hitting the Pentagon) or when Louise noted that Scooter Libby had actually be Liebowitz, and that he was/is a dual (US-Israeli) citizen, and was working in highest levels of the US gov. –for the interests of Israel, not US- then this stuff starts to all fall into place. But here again, I certainly wouldn’t have found that out on my own. In other words, I’ve always known that Cheney was big trouble, just as I’ve always known that the Bush Dynasty was big trouble. But, those are only ‘intuitive notions” no matter how correct they may be, until one can put some substance to it, by way of information – FACTS.
But, I said all of that to say that YES, I imagine the scenario that you describe very well, and I believe it to be very accurate. So, when folks call us ravers, or claim that we are ‘spinning fantasies’ (like ITzW) it’s because we just might be getting close enough to the truth.

And yes, we can actually LEARN from the likes of these very people. Their agendas become quite clear, sometimes sooner than others.

OK, back to my real work. (I actually am supposed to be reading and writing stuff for ‘official purposes’. – like school. Bureaucracy is so pesky.)

To all:

Disinfo agents come in all shapes, colors, sizes, races, creeds, ethnicities, and gender, though I would estimate that at least 95% of the most aggressive are, of course, male. I have not found anywhere near the percentage of women to be afflicted as men. I’ve not done anything scientific in my search on the subject, but the ratio is probably somewhere close to 75%/25%. Women are definitely the most resistant to the more aggressive stages of the disinfo disease.

Anybody that is not “wedded” to The Truth is a disinfo agent. The majority of disinfo agents are just passing on bad info that they think is good, just because they don’t know any better.

That said, there are many degrees between the extremes of disinfo agents that draw a check at taxpayer expense for deliberately spreading disinfo and those simply passing on bad info that they think is good. It is easy enough to see which is which. Irrespective that disinfo agents such as those already named (ITZW and ilk) think themselves impervious to “being found out,” all one has to do is watch them for a few moments in order to see them, as if by magic, become as naked as they day they were born. Their “clothing” falls off as one watches.

One of the greatest failings of mankind is to think himself too slick to be detected in what he considers to be his “best” dissimulating mode. The worst of these are politicians, of course, and those that have been infected by politicians. I’d say the dissimulaters named (ITzW and ilk) caught their infection from politicians.

The “political dissimulation” disease is worse than HIV/AIDS, or, actually, any other disease known to man, including the most virulent cancers, as the former (PD) literally kills whole civilizations so that they disappear from the earth. The very disease (PD) that afflicts all politicians in varying degrees and those that get too close to them, is not even suspected widely as a disease, but those afflicted actually pride themselves on how well they are able to adhere to its ravages and still remain standing upright.

There is no known cure for PD except what is so repugnant to the patient that he/she would rather die than take the cure.  Said cure is simple and otherwise painless and people do it all the time, as I, myself have done it: wed oneself to The Truth (yes, capitalized as a proper noun), pursue The Truth wherever it may lead, and do it with a single minded vigor.

Obviously, I could not pursue the political trades.

Comment #106729 by Cyrena on 10/12

Cyrena…I must say that I too have sensed that ITZW could be the same as the registered commenter, “lilmamzer”. I did note some similarities in ideology and writing style.

ITZW…is pretty sneaky. I remember when he first started to post on truthdig…Oh…he was preaching about civility and being civil…etc…

Have you visited “Israel’s Toy Soldiers” by Chris Hedges forum (page 2)? ITZW’s deranged zionist posts are really loony. He sounds worse than a fanatic Israeli zionist zealot.

He is very deceptive and tries the trip/trap, diversion, changing the subject…his favorites are anti-semitic, Jew-hater, holocaust, Hitler, neo-nazi…sounds like an ADL member/volunteer.

Cyrena, do you ever wonder if any of those people who are/were involved with 9/11 out there…if he/she/they are reading our comments?

I wonder what are they thinking and saying to each other or themselves. We may have discussed something that really actually happened and they were a part of it or know the full details of the classified information. They are probably saying, “Wow…that is pretty close. Just imagine if these guys knew its the truth or very close to it.”

Part 1 of 2

#106715 by Robert
#106639 by Franker than Frank

You too Peter. I actually started a response to you earlier, and then got distracted by another thread. FTF, really everybody, you should check out the story on the latest civilian casualties (NINE kids women as well). I think that’s the title of it. Ok…I just checked…it’s “US Kills 9 Children in Airstrike.

I know, I know, it doesn’t sound ‘related’ at all, but it’s become that way, because we’ve gotten into a lively discussion, (at least Louise and I – plus some others) about all of the LIES that put us there to begin with. (I also debunked each and every ‘revolving reason/lie” that the Thugs have used to get there, and to stay there. And of course, Saddam allegedly being responsible for 9-11 was one of them, even though they knew he wasn’t involved. And, we knew he didn’t have any WMD as well. (I debunked that on the biden thread, where he’s asking for more money for these special vehicles.) I wouldn’t have even bothered, if I hadn’t got a PM from a troll who had the nerve to lecture me. –DanielB- Haven’t heard anything back from HIM yet, but maybe that’s because I figured out that he was what he was.

Robert, as for ITZW, I’m not sure what the deal is there. I say that because I’ve ‘read’ him have reasonable discussions with a few others, from time to time. It ALSO ‘seems’ like I remember him being registered at one time, like before we (or I at least) got hacked/censored. But, I could be wrong. Maybe I have him/her mixed up with somebody else. Like, for whatever the reason, I somehow always got the impression that he and lilmamzer might be one in the same. At least their themes are very much the same. Still, from time to time, ITZW is perfectly reasonable. But, sooner or later, they jump in on how those “Palestinian Terrorists” want to destroy Israel, and force a fundamentalist regime in the occupied territories. Common themes for both of them.

And then there’s Godsend. What happened to her? She was always playing the devils advocate (kind of spacey) and getting into it with the Wind, and then ITZW would get all testy back, and on and on. But, I haven’t seen GS around on any of the threads lately.

BUT, lilmamzer is back. Either on the Israel Lobby story/interview, or the Book excerpt on the same. THAT one (thread) is going pretty hot and heavy as well, though I’ve not had that much to add to it myself.

Anyway, I said that to say that I’m honestly not sure what the deal is with ITZW, other than to ‘watch out’.

As for MS, I feel kind of bad about him, since he started out reasonable enough, until he got all twisted up with the Jewish heritage thing. But also, he was still in what I believe to be genuine denial, about 9-11 being a black flag operation. And, I really DID understand how he felt, because…what could be more traumatic for some people? Especially the type who honestly don’t like to hear or think, or believe, that they could have been duped? (men have a harder time with that then women I think) – I never have had a difficult time hearing opinions or views that might be contrary to my own. Matter of fact, I like it, because otherwise, I wouldn’t find stuff out. OTOH, I can generally tell (sooner or later) when it’s bullshit. But, those who wed themselves to one tunnel of thought/perception have a much more difficult time accepting anything that goes against it. In this case, 9-11 does that for so many people, because once you accept that it was perpetrated by our own government, (in conjunction with whomever) it means accepting that there was never a valid reason to attach Afghanistan OR Iraq. And, if you’re finding all of this out at the same time that the Mob is ALSO poised to hit Iran, (with the same déjà vu scenario that they used to sell Iraq) then it might just all be too much.

TBC

Part 2 of 2
So, I don’t think MS was a troll, but it’s questionable on ITZW. Very questionable. Others are more obvious in their agendas, some of whom DO register.

Anyway Peter, I have the book that you’re talking about from Ray Griffen. You can also find other articles from him at Truthout.org, if you just search the archives. I have a CD that was done by his group as well, and I’ve heard him lecture too. He’s very good. MS blew him off as a “theologian” thereby questioning his ‘expertise’. He DOES teach religious studies, (I think somewhere in the Claremont Univ System of California) but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know anything else.

Ray McGovern is another one that you could check out as well. He heads up the VIPS –Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. Just google him, or check the T/O archives. They’ve been on the Iran deal for quite a while now, because it’s been nearly 2 years, since word broke on that, from Seymour Hirsch.

But for now, check out these other threads here…especially the one on the airstrike. Bottom line is that al-Qaeda in Iraq is a myth. (and that link I provided on the thread) and that they were never there before, and that the Cabal has actually ‘created’ all of these terrorist organizations, in order to push the agenda of maintaining the fear of the American people.

Another book that would be helpful (and I think you should be able to get it at the library, but let me know. If not, I can get a copy for you and mail it) – I know everyone’s funds are limited. (well, at least mine are) – I think I told you guys that I was effectively shitcanned, after 25 plus years, and lost everything. And, while it sure didn’t seem like it at the time, it was the best thing that could have happened to me. Still, it’s been a struggle getting back to even level ground. (still not there).

Anyway, I do have this book: “The War on Truth: 9/11, Disinformation, and the Anatomy of Terrorism.” It’s by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, and you’ll get a lot of info from that. He’s got another one “Behind the War on Terror: Western Secret Strategy and the Struggle for Iraq”. I haven’t read it yet.

The publisher is Olive Branch Press, at http://www.interlinkbooks.com

Well DAMN, I’ve missed one of my few ‘favorite’ shows. That’s OK. It’ll come around again. This is so much better anyway.

Take care.

Comment #106657 by FTF on 10/12

Franker…A great post on David Ray Griffin and the discussion about cell phones.

Cyrena, FTF, Peter RV…Do you ever wonder why this deranged zionist, ITZW, just can’t settle his locked head regarding that Israel/Mossad are part of the 9/11 classified information.

He keeps trying to post to divert our focus on something else…away from discussing Israel, Mossad, AIPAC…and so on. Ever wonder why ITZW is still an “unregistered commenter” on truthdig. A little puzzling perhaps! 
—————————————-

9/11 Airport Surveillance Video:

What’s the Time?

“The time of the recording is displayed

Portland Airport. September 11, 2001

Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Al-Omari (alive)

Two times of the recording are displayed. Two?

Washington Dulles Airport. September 11, 2001.

Khalid al-Mihdhar (alive?) and Majed Moqed

AP News item on the Dulles airport security camera video footage of the “hijackers”.
578kB RealMedia video download.
This is the first security video I have ever seen that does NOT HAVE A DATE AND TIME STAMP ON IT. This tape would be useless in a court of law because there is no way of proving when the video was shot.

Also, airport security tapes normally display a code as to which security area the camera is located.

Finally, take a close look at the large white units at extreme left and right. Those appear to be bomb detection units. Now common in airports everywhere, they were NOT in use on 9-11.

The official autopsy results from Flight 77 failed to identify any Arab remains.”

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers_video.html

Folks, I just read an article by David Ray Griffin that is highly germane to what I have been discussing about cell phone use by the a/c pasengers. It should also make a liar out of ITW who wrote that cell phones can easily be made from high flying jet passenger craft. The URL follows:

http://www.rense.com/general78/newev.htm

The discussion re cell phone usage begins about halfway through the article. Griffin has updated his book by including the newer “cell phone usage” part of it. Griffin says that the FBI was called upon to present evidence in a court of law regarding cell phone usage on these flights. The FBI introduced into evidence in court that “only two cell phone calls were made on all the flights, and that was by flight 93 just minutes before the plane crashed.”  And so, ALL those other lengthy cell phone calls contacting all those family members, had to have come from the perps pulling the crime, according to sworn FBI testimony in a court of law. Read Griffin’s above article and see.

All those bogus accounts about cell phone contact with the ground turns out to be exactly as I said was the case, to create the illusion that the criminals were Arab hijackers with box cutters.

My question for ITW would now be: how did those box cutters make all those cell phone calls, calls of which did not originate within the “hijacked” airplanes, but obviously came from other sources and even employed voice morphing technology to approximate the vocal characteristics of the victims? Anser that one for me to reasonable satisfaction and I will fall at your feet and declare you a god. How did those box cutters do it?

Good retort to the Zionist Poot, Cyrena. If I lose you folks on this thread I’ll look through some of the others and find you, but I won’t have much to say about anything else. I’m fairly focused on 911. 

I somehow missed the Poot’s comment. I’m glad you referenced it and brought me up to speed. It’s really good that the Poot “put it in the wind” (which is not only a great pun but means, “got out of Dodge”) and is no longer digging his/her claws into folks here, because it did distract me somewhat to strum his/her head like a guitar just to enjoy myself with his/her pain.

I love to take a little bitty mind that thinks it’s a great big one and adjust its contrast a bit by surrounding it with some wide open spaces. I did that to the Poot a time or two and registered the howls on my “howlometer” doing about 120 hph (howls per hour.) Ha, ha, ha.

But I do miss MS, though. He was great fun. On the extreme edge of breaking apart, but great fun.

Re: 106587 Peter RV

PETER, there is a lot of room for speculation. I don’t mind anybody speculating about how the real perps could have pulled off 911, as there is an absence of “the people’s” professional crime fighting apparatus that is willing to determine the whole truth. When I start jumping up and down and waving my arms is when a rube or a disinfo agent hoves into into view and begins trying to twist the facts into matching the fantastic govt conspiracy theory that is so fraught with impossibilities, which includes all the “amazing coincidences” and “miracles” that totally suspend all laws of physics and reasonable probability.

While I don’t particularly agree that flt. 93 was a bonafide hijacking of the a/c in question, but I think it was just an extension of the “illusion” I referred to, you could still be right. Even if you are right, it would still qualify as “extension of the illusion.” And so we are not far from agreement. The only thing that would bother me would be if you tried to use the occasion to try and get the real perps off the hook as the Israel lobby has been working so feverishly to do. I know you are not doing that.

We know why the Israel lobby is going at it toothpick to toenail, don’t we? It is because Israel was complicit in 911, and every “good” Zionist Israeli (even many non-Israeli Zionists) are simply doing what they have been doing for millennia: trying to justify the evil ways of Zionist Jewry no matter what.

However, all these criminal conspirators are up against a force that is almost brand new in the world
today (relatively speaking), and that’s a whole new order of “we, the people” citizen political awareness that is controlled not by the old “democratic” order of wisdom, but by what I discovered during the 60’s and dubbed, “Ideacracy.”

In the now defunct “democratic” order it was enough that several “great leaders” declared the “truth” of a matter and told the majority how to think on the subject. One man, the head of labor, for instance, could say, “I vote for xyz.” The next day, 99% of labor voted xyz. This is still true to some extent today, but the stranglehold that the “one-leader-says-so” mechanism formerly exercised over the thoughts of the masses, has been broken. It was broken during the 60’s.

The very events of 911 could well be a “last ditch attempt” of the old order to head off the Ideacracy at the pass and thus hang onto the “one leader” concept of old. Today, nobody needs a “one leader” to tell him/her precisely how to think. The fact that 99% believed the govt’s conspiracy story at first, then dwindled virtually overnight to less than 50%, is a telling fact just how far the “Ideacracy” has progressed in an amazingly short 50 years or so.

And so, I believe that far from the folks that appear to be holding forth for a “New World Order,” we are witnessing the “old world order” of “one-leader-says-so” trying desperately to hang on by its toenails and is using the NWO name as a ruse just to confound and conquer.

I believe the Ideacracy will prevail over all. This is because it is totally truth based and has the power even of reaching into the most radically demented old “one-leader-says-so” order of individuals (desperately trying to hold onto political power), and taking hold even of these individuals, getting inside their heads and turning them off to the insanity of rampant “one-leader-says-so” democratic machinations for controlling the thoughts of the masses.

#106502 by Inherit The Wind

•  ...“Now there’s just the 4 of you engaging in an endless circle jerk telling each other how brilliant you are while you spin your conspiracy fantasies.”..

Ah, you were RIGHT ITW, just us conspiracy theorists chasing our tails, though I haven’t seen anything that would indicate that we were telling ourselves how brilliant we are…quite the contrary actually.

Meantime, I only WISH they were ‘fantasies’. It would be psychologically ‘easier’ to accept the ‘official’ conspiracy fantasy, which is apparently what our ‘gov’ had planned on. Not gonna happen though, if only because even a moron could figure out that the official story has absolutely NO backup. Not a single piece of anything concrete that could prove even a portion of the official lie. So, I suspect we’ll continue to ‘entertain’ ourselves with these ‘fantasies’. It’s probably also a good thing that there are only ‘just the 4 of us’. But, I know that there are more than just the 4 of us, (and you) checking in on our ‘fantasies’. (at least you make your presence known, which I appreciate)

Still, you can rest assured that all of these communications are carefully monitored. So, as long as TD maintains the thread, I guess we’ll keep at it. I learn something new nearly everyday. But, your advice is well heeded,

•  Have fun and stay out of trouble.

Your intent here may just be the standard sarcastic/facetious/patronizing tone, but this ‘staying out of trouble’ – for me- at least, is more than a notion. Rather, it’s like treading very dangerous icy roads…in the dark. I know the dangers, because I already have the ‘scares’ from earlier attempts at this very same thing.

So, I’m taking your advice very seriously, (at least the staying out of trouble part). Having fun….I don’t think I’d say it’s that at all. If anything, the more dots we can connect, the scarier it all becomes.

So, glad you checked in on us. I of course will talk to you on other threads, but I think this is the only one that FTF deals with. So, I’m hoping that TD will allow us to continue ‘having our fun’ so we can keep tabs on each other. (Make sure nobody gets ‘disappeared’, or that at least if one of us DOES, we’ll have a clue to what happened to them…though I don’t know that we’d be able to do anything about it). Maybe we should try to work out some sort of SOS.

Cheers!!

Folks, I hope my last few posts didn’t frighten any “Little Miss Muffets” away. You know the Little Miss Muffet that sat on a tuffet eating her curds and whey…?”

My main purpose is to be sure folks realize that anybody seeking the truth of 911 could be playing with fire, just to be sure they keep their defensive senses about themselves.

One has to realize the cliche “Freedom isn’t free” tells it all.

There has been a struggle going on since time immemorial between the very forces that are amplifying themselves on the world stage today. These are called “Good vs. Evil.” Sometime they remain hidden and sometime they are as visible as world wars. Your own founders of this great nation ran head on into those very forces, and for at least a little while, overcame. It was not without paying a price.

It’s what anybody has to realize that seeks freedom. There is a price for it: for instance, the price of thinking one is protected all the time and from everything. One cannot live a life hanging onto “mommy’s apron” and still be free. One cannot be totally safe where freedom rules. This is one of the main prices exacted by freedom. 

The paradox is, neither can one be totally free where the tyranny of the appearances of “absolute safety” rules, either.

Indeed, one cannot breathe air at all and believe one is absolutely safe.

Thus, there has to be a realistic trade-off. If one wants to remain absolutely safe, then this is what the criminal seditionist perps of 911 promise. Some safety, huh?

However, I have never lived in safety, absolute or otherwise, not ever, and I am going on my 68th year. I have been living like this (outside the pale of the tyranny of the “absolute safety” lie) and talking like this and promoting freedom against tyranny since about 1947, when I was seven years old. Yes, that young.

And so, if one is so terrorized by the perps of 911 that one would withdraw into one’s “cocoon of safety” and take whatever comes, then one is at least as dead as I would have been if the forces of tyranny had been able to kill me when I was seven.

So what’s the difference? Die fighting and struggling for freedom or die fighting and struggling for absolute safety. Dead is dead, irrespective how it happens.

But there is no “middle ground” and never has been. There are no “abstentions.” This is the kind of truth and reality that requires one to go for one side or the other with gusto, or perish anyway. At least “going for the gold” (as long as it is for truth/freedom’s sake) means one may achieve true life and liberty in one’s own time. But going for any other “gold” is to fail (be dead) from the very beginning.

I’ve always chosen truth/freedom.

To all: I just searched “Let’s roll,” and found that the stories have morphed quite a bit since I read them as first accounts. Instead of Todd Beamer, the original “Let’s roll” guy using a ”cell phone” hooked into an anonymous operator while hunkering down behind one of the passenger seats, as the story originally went, Beamer is now using an “in flight” telephone that was hooked into a known GTE operator who is now apparently a friend of Beamer’s wife. So that tale has morphed quite a bit since I read it on first accounts.
It is not entirely unimaginable that the govt has gone around individually and murdered everybody with a website that told the original version of the story, removed said stories from the Inet and systematically replaced them with bullshit. I am not interested enough to go through it all to find out. Suffice to say I am aware that it would not be beyond govt today to murder anybody anywhere and do anything it felt necessary to achieve goals.
One day they may go around individually and murder everybody that does not accept the party line, then post on the Inet whatever stories are necessary for “historical” purposes. All the truth would disappear as flt. 93 and Pentagon 757 did. It wouldn’t take all that much. After all, the perps have gone to a lot of trouble already: committed 911 and invaded Iraq at the cost of trillions of dollars and countless lives and are seriously trying to justify invading Iran, an act that would probably spark a hot WWIII in which nukes will be exchanged around the planet, destroying all life on earth.
And so, if the criminals are that desperate and determined, it would be laughable to suggest that murdering a few American dissidents, even several million, to get them “out of the way” is “above gub’s doing because it would be difficult to pull off.” 

I say, “Ha, ha, ha,” to that argument. Tell it on Saturday Night Live (or Oprah, another comedy show.)
It may well be too late for America already. If a spontaneous uprising does not occur soon, it is too late for sure, because all the uprisings in the world will be of no avail when critical “x” juncture of the entire criminal plan is in place.  An “uprising” could just be that everybody may lie down and refuse to move. It could also be a violent one where everybody starts shooting or axing anything that moves. But a popular uprising NEEDS to occur, whether peaceful or otherwise, if America is to be saved from the clutches of what appears to be the devil himself in the form of a handful of criminal maniacs that have been able to invade America’s political processes and take the helm.
Am I trying to “raise the alarm?” Not at all, as I’ve pointed out, I don’t care who or what is in charge. It will be folks that think themselves gods almighty, anyway, at least until the Ideacracy I mentioned grows large enough feet to squash them all by simply stepping on them. No matter who is in charge, once the Ideacracy I’ve been watching reaches full growth potential and attains the power of self-realization, it will step on all the old systems and squash them. This won’t be bad. It will be a good thing, at least for whatever remnant may remain after the present hurricane of evil subsides.
I’m like the fantasized “Todd Beamer” of “Let’s roll” fame, except I’m real and so is the hijacking of America. I’m only holding a “cell phone” to my head from time to time and telling an “anonymous operator” what’s happening on this hijacked passenger plane of America on which we are all, criminals and innocent alike, hurling helter-skelter into the side of a granite mountain.
Telling about it from time to time as it happens, as a witness, is the least I can do.

#106153 by cyrena

CYRENA, I don’t need a salary, thanks, I work for free on this one.

You are correct, Flt. 93 was the “LET’S ROLL!” one.
That whole episode apparently occurred for the sole purpose of “demonstrating” who fantasized hijackers
were and that they were armed with box cutters.

Since the govt has “mysteriously” withdrawn that one from the “hottest” of its “proofs,” it reveals that somebody discovered the impossibility of using a cell phone like that at the time.

As for UA 11 it could have been possible for the stewardess to make such a call to the ground, as I don’t know what that technology is about. Also I would assume the ground could be reached via cockpit comunication devices. However, standard, ordinary cell phones that passengers would have possessed, such as the fantasy of “LET’S ROLL” was created around, could not have delivered the goods, as that technology was just developed for the first time only recently. The company that developed it “for the first time” was very proud.

As the aircraft passed by the various cell phone towers, it may have been possible to make momentary contact, even lasting more several seconds or so, but with the craft moving so fast that tower was unable to “pass the call on” to the next tower trying to pick it up, before still the next tower went for it. Do a search and you can learn exactly why it was impossible to carry on a long conversation air to ground with ordinary cell phones such as the public used. It was impossible to carry on long conversations with any of them.

You can believe that if this part of the bogus story could have been sustained, the “LET’S ROLL!” fantasy would still be on the lips of every govt agency, because THAT was THE greatest “proof” of all that the hijackers were Arabs in possession of box cutting knives.

I wrote a lengthy work re the “Ideacracy” (pronounced Ideeocracy), but lost it to a fire in 2000. I had survived from the 60’s. The Ideacracy is a good thing, not bad. When the Internet came along I recognized it as type and kind of neural system that would serve the Ideacracy. If the Ideacracy can kick in in time, it could deliver the world from the clutches of evil. But, even though it is more than forty years old it’s still just a baby.

Part I of II#106131 by Franker than Frank

FtF,
I think you should be paid a salary for your work here, like as a visiting professor.  (though there’s no way I could afford it) Still, I thought I’d just throw that in. And for Peter and everyone’s ‘benefit’ I was going to add a few comments. And, I’m thanking Robert too, for his latest on the terrorist that probably wasn’t a terrorist.

But first, on the “LET’S ROLL” scenario…we’re talking about UA Flt 93 right? Where the passengers were supposedly planning to ‘take’ the aircraft? Because, as far as I know, there was no alleged ‘conversation’ from AA 77, that they told us hit the Pentagon. But, supposedly there was also conversation from AA 11, allegedly from a flight attendant to the Flight Service Center in Florida, from a telephone in the galley. (I’ll have to go back to my well worn copy of the ‘official report”, but I think I’ve got it right).

But, that leads me to just confirm what you were telling us, about how easy it was for most people to ‘believe’ at least initially….

•  It is obvious that the perps assumed most people would be dazzled by the “illusion,” which most certainly were until massive amounts of contrary evidence started piling up.

Yes, I was as ‘dazzled’ as anybody, until I had a chance to think it through. And clearly, I should have known myself, right off the bat. And, I had ‘questions” nagging thoughts, but still believed it, since I watched it on TV, like everybody else. It wasn’t until shortly later, and only with the Pentagon that I realized there was so much NOT to see. (emergency vehicles, emergency response teams – like what we saw in NYC). Nothing of the sort for the Pentagon, or UA flt 93. But of course at the time of those two disappearances, everyone’s attention was totally focused on the WTC, where there WAS a normal emergency operation in full force.

What would be an interesting project now, (though it would be tedious, and involve a lot of work) would be to study as much media and or news coverage that might have been available that day, and the days after. I guess I’m interested in finding out how much changed between then, and the publication of the commission’s report, which is rather conspicuously noted “on the front cover, directly under the title as the “”Authorized Edition”. – I’ve never seen THAT on any other ‘official publication” of anything.

The Arab highjacker story was available, almost IMMEDIATELY, complete with alleged evidence found in a parked car in downtown Manhattan. Supposedly left behind by the highjackers, except of course there was no reason for them to have a car parked THERE, since none of them actually originated those trips in NYC. (or were we supposed to believe that it dropped out of the crashed airplane, and survived where nothing else did…the paperwork ID-ing a highjacker that is).

•  But you must remember, you have been fooled by the very illusion that was set up to do the job. I say it was amateurish only because it didn’t fool me, but it must have been pretty good to fool at least 99% of Americans that witnessed it, which it did.

Here again it fooled me as well, and I REALLY should have known better. But, when I tried to talk to former co-workers about it, all were strangely silent, and apparently convinced. (making noises about carrying firearms in the cockpit, even though most pilots are reluctant to even allow Federal Marshals or other ‘official’ personnel to fly with firearms – though it is customarily allowed, with all of the official ‘paperwork’ done.)
TBC

Part II of II FTF 106131
So, I said all of that to say that it through me off as well, if only because the ‘explanation’ came so quickly – Arab highjackers, and because there wasn’t access to any information (at least not for me) that I would have otherwise been able to check on the spot. And, it’s probably just as well. I suspect something would have otherwise caused me to disappear by now.
Anyway, lots of us were fooled, to varying degrees or another. And, it’s only because they never came up with anything beyond the original story, (Arab highjackers with boxcutters) to in fact sustain it. They never bothered with answers for all of the other unbelievable things, though indeed they were careful enough to remove the video from cameras near the Pentagon, and THAT was done immediately as well.
Still, none of that came out immediately, and so 99% of us and the rest of the world, had NOTHING to ‘go on’ besides the story at the time.

But, even after the initial shock wore off, and later down the road, it seemed I remembered some ‘alleged’ communications from Osama bin Laden, that mentioned it as a successful operation. (for his ‘group’) Now, I don’t remember when or what media, (video or audio) where he supposedly communicated this to us. (something else to check). But, it was enough for other very intelligent people to begin to form the answers to the one question that I DID have from day one. WHY?

If these Arabs did this to us, then—- WHY? That simple question has never been addressed by any government official, or the commission report. The only explanation GW has ever provided was “THEY HATE OUR FREEDOMS”. Now THAT, I KNEW was bullshit, but that only made me try to find out the ‘real reasons” for it, which prevented me, (at least for a while) from looking to the more obvious…that it wasn’t Arab highjackers at all, and that’s why there was no logical reason.

Not only that, but because there COULD BE a case made for a ‘reason’ (and the academic world has considered ‘blowback’ in terms of the “freedoms” that the US has exercised all over the Middle East by it’s imperial presence in other foreign countries there) it obviously distracted attention –away from- the whole idea that maybe it wasn’t them who did it. (and remember all of the rumors and other stuff that has come out since, about bin Laden ‘planning’ to attack the US).

So, in effect, that official story has had so many of us chasing our tails, trying to figure out why…and going off in the wrong direction. (I personally believe that OBL is dead, and has been for several years.) GW later publicly stated that finding him wasn’t “that big of a deal”.
Last but not least – FTF, thanks so much for this term…
•  When I discovered it creating itself during the 60’s I coined “Ideocracy” to describe it. It looks like it will be a good system for replacing the old concept of “Democracy.”

Ideocracy…that’s a great one. I’ve come up with several myself, but I’m gonna add this to my collection. And, maybe it has replaced “Democracy” at least in the sense that we know we certainly don’t HAVE a democracy any longer – nothing that even resembles it.

Just another ‘illusion’.

To one and all:

Sorry, folks, but I misspelled Ideacracy. I am getting up in age, after all, and it has been a long time since I Godfathered the child of Democracy. The correct spelling of the “child” is very important. The fourth letter in the name is supposed to be “a,” not “o.” This is a big ha, ha, because there is a new movie out called “Ideocracy,” in which 500 years from now imbeciles (or idiots, thus “Ideocracy”) rule America. Why wait 500 years, as, according to 911, it’s happening today.

BTW, Peter, I meant to mention that after actual passenger planes were shown hitting the WTC, and “Let’s Roll” carried on for an hour telling about the a/c in which he was kinapped, even telling anecdotes about the plainly identifiable Arab hijackers with “box cutters,” the mere “suggestion” of a 757 impacting the Pentagon was supposed to dazzle everybody into believing that a 757 actually did strike the Pentagon. Said “dazzle” was supposed to carry over to the claim the whole aircraft, all several tons of it, totally disappeared in the most unique, hottest ball of fire that ever existed at any crash scene that not only reduced massive, specially hardened jet engines into a smoky vapor, but miraculously allowed 75% of the passenger’s DNA to escape the same immolation so that said DNA could be positively ID’d.

It is obvious that the perps assumed most people would be dazzled by the “illusion,” which most certainly were until massive amounts of contrary evidence started piling up. Hell, you believed it, right? You fell for the illusion. Now you are trying to disabuse yourself, which is a laudable effort.

But you must remember, you have been fooled by the very illusion that was set up to do the job. I say it was amateurish only because it didn’t fool me, but it must have been pretty good to fool at least 99% of Americans that witnessed it, which it did.

My judgment that it was so stupid is ONLY because they did not concoct a good enough story to SUSTAIN the illusion. One can only claim amazing coincidence and “miraculous interventions” only so far. One can’t overdo it except at the expense of throwing a wrecking ball against the sustainability of the illusion.  And so, this was not a simple magician’s trick where the only concern is to dazzle the audience for a moment. Instead of pulling a simple illusive trick to do the job, 911 required a highly complex magician’s trick with the power of sustainability, one that would be capable of stretching into many years in the future, as murder enjoys no statutes of limitation.

This is why I continue to say the perps of 911 were so damned stupid. They devised a simple magician’s illusion without any sustainability built in. They did not build an “escape platform.” They just figured, “What the hell, everybody will have to believe us because WE said it was so.” This is how the world was before 911, but it surely as hell was not how it was in the aftermath. It’s a new intellectual world post 911, in which CheneyIsraelCo are dinosaurs from the old world.

Welcome to just one of the new world orders that are here today.  When I discovered it creating itself during the 60’s I coined “Ideocracy” to describe it. It looks like it will be a good system for replacing the old concept of “Democracy.”  The Ideocracy could be called a child of Democracy with mutated (and improved) genes for intelligence. I may be its Godfather.

Re: #105933 by Peter RV

Peter wrote: If the airplanes were ‘just for show’ then what kind of show of four airplanes is this when two of them ( Penna and Penta )dont even appear on the stage? I have difficulty to assume that the perpetretors were that dumb stage managers.

FTF reply: The first two airplanes hitting the WTC set the stage for all that followed. Everybody, “shocked and awed” (all minds riveted as one), was expecting more airplanes, right?

The first two a/c hit WTC without warning. Just “BLAM!” The perps, of course, knew. Nobody else did. The perps knew the Penta was to be hit. Nobody else knew. Why flt 93 fell short of a strike only the perps could know for certain. However, I highly suspect it may have been solely for the purpose of establishing the “ID” of Arab skyjackers.

Remember the nauseous “LET’S ROLL!” fantasy that went on and on ad nauseam (what was it, 30 mins or an hour long) even though the state of cell phone technology rendered such a conversation IMPOSSIBLE. “Let’s Roll” even related how the stewardess was lying dead on the floor, throat slashed with A BOX CUTTER wielded by an ARAB hijacker. Remember all that horse shit. Oh year, “One of the Arabs is in the cockpit flying the airplane. I have a small group of passengers together and we will charge him by and by.”  Then the immortal words were heard, “LET’S ROLL!” Then “BLAM!” that a/c fell out of the air.

The whole damned thing was show from start to finish.

THE PERPS NEVER INTENDED TO HIT THE PENTAGON WITH A 757. The perps intended to use a missile on the Pentagon to begin with.  And so showing the airplane was irrelevant. It was enough that the WTC revealed passenger planes hitting the towers.

I have never accused the perps of being the best illusionists in history, nor the smartest criminals I have ever investigated (not as a cop, but one simply learning criminology.) I told in another post that these politicians should have hired some good criminals to cook up the cover story. They should have hired a good magician to set up the illusion.  Because smart they are not and good illusionists they are not, even though they assume they are the smartest assholes ever to grip a turd. The very first telling fact is that they tried to run “Arabs with box cutters” past everybody. Hell, I couldn’t believe it even for a moment.  I knew better. I’ll bet every smart criminal in prison was laughing about it.

An aside: I remember talking with several convicts right after JFK’s assassination. I was a young man right then. They told me LBJ did it. There was no evidence “at all” pointing in that direction, but some of them knew.  Sure enough, go to this URL and read about LBJ and JFK. http://www.mondovista.com/lbj/index.html. This is compelling stuff.

I knew the truth about 911 in the same way the cons above knew about LBJ. Quite often body language gives people away. Good police detectives rely upon it “exclusively” when interviewing suspects until they can make a case. 

And so, the short answer to your question is: the perps NEVER INTENDED TO HAVE FOUR AIRPLANES ON THE SCENE and this is why there were only two. They did steal the other two, however, and probably sold them on the world black market or gave them to Israel to scrub the numbers and use. 

The reality is, they did not hit the Pentagon with a 757.  Since they did not, then it is impossible to produce a wrecked 757. It is the perennial hubris of these assholes to simply say, “Fuck you people. We say the 757 totally disintegrated. Like it or lump it.”

You can’t imagine politicians being so stupid.

If you knew them as I do, you would say, “They surely as hell are stupid enough to think they could get away with explaining 911 as ‘200 sheer coincidences and miracles.’”

Cyrena, better late than never.

Photographic Evidence Showing
Ziad Jarrah Was Not a 9/11 Hijacker

Of all the dozens of mysteries still swirling around this month’s devastating terrorist attacks, the life of alleged hijacker [Ziad] Jarrah has emerged as one of the more perplexing. From Lebanon to Germany to the United States, there are few clues as to why he would have joined a terrorist organization, much less commandeered an airplane in a suicidal mission that claimed dozens of innocent lives as well as his own. [Boston Globe 9/25/2001]

Jarrah #1
 

Jarrah #2
 

Jarrah #3

Jarrah #1: Student visa photo of “Ziad Jarrah”.
Jarrah #2: Authentic photo of alleged hijacker Ziad Jarrah taken in 1996. [BBC]
Jarrah #3: Passport photo of “Ziad Jarrah” found in the wreckage of Flight 93.

It is apparent that Jarrahs 1 & 3 are the same person. Compare them to Jarrah 2:

Head shape: wrong
Hairline: wrong
Nose shape: wrong

Conclusion: The Ziad Jarrah purported to have piloted Flight 93 on 9/11 is not shown in photograph 3, therefore he was not a hijacker.

Other comparison photographs:

Click for full sized image

‘It makes no sense,’’ his uncle, Jamal Jarrah, said in a telephone interview from the village of Al-Marj, Lebanon, recalling that two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he’d be coming home for a cousin’s wedding in mid-September. ‘‘He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion.’’ [Boston Globe]

Full CBC interview with Jarrah’s uncle
RealMedia streamed video (broadband only)

In the summer of 1999 Jarrah spent most of his time in Bochum with his girlfriend Aisel. [CBC]

Jarrah lived with his girlfriend.

A farewell letter written by [Jarrah] to his girlfriend in Germany [was] intercepted by investigators in the United States. He sent it to his girlfriend’s address in Bochum, but it apparently never arrived, due to a mistake in the address. The German post office returned the letter marked ‘address unknown’ to the United States, where it was intercepted by investigators a week ago. [Guardian]

“The letter has been fabricated in an attempt to find evidence against Ziad Jarrah,” his uncle, Jamal Jarrah told the US news agency Associated Press. And he said it was suspicious that the letter’s address reportedly contained a mistake, as he had known his girlfriend for five years and would not have made such an error. [BBC]

How could he get an address he’d lived at wrong?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/jarrah.html

#105869 by Franker than Frank

Thanks FtF,

I know you’re 1000% correct. It just took me longer to figure it out, and of course I was also looking at it from my own life and work experiences. My life experience certainly tells me that they are all capable of doing these types of operations, (false flags) but my own professional experience made it incredible to me, since the whole focus has always been first, and foremost…SAFETY in aviation operations.

And, I know that this couldn’t have happened without the assistance/cooperation, (at some level)of the airlines involved.

So, that’s the part that threw me off, until I finally accepted that even that, isn’t surprising, but only contrary to what I always thought my job was about.

So, here I am, approaching my ‘official’ middle-age point, (even though 55 is now the new 35) and just now getting to this realization.

Makes me feel kind of stupid.

#105815 by cyrena

As I pointed out, all the airplanes were just for show. The explosives did the work. The airplanes were used for the sole purpose of creating an illusion for the dumbest people in the world. They may have known that no smart person would buy any of it, but they calculated that the vast majority of Americans are dummies and didn’t give a damn what a few smart people may think. I didn’t buy any from the instant of contact and did not have to wait on any evidence to come in, because I was already aware of the “false flag” concept and that there was an ongoing police mentality move to pass draconian legislation. They have been going at this one since I plugged into it in 60’s and saw which way the wind was blowing. When I did hear the govt’s fantastic conspiracy theories, it was just icing on the cake for me.

I don’t know any of the individuals that actually did the work, and so I couldn’t point that finger, but it takes no great wisdom to see when folks’ hands are in the cookie jar.

The police mentality is a force that has been trying to assume control of the world since oldest antiquity. The police mentality and the criminal one are like peas in a pod, but simply different shades of color. They run hand in hand, on a tether. One cannot exist without the other. The police side of the mentality needs the criminal side as desperately as you need a right brain and left brain. Quite often there is no difference between the behavior of criminals and police.

#105734 by Peter RV

“...what was the purpose of making disappear those two airliners with crews and pasengers?”

Franker Than,

I honestly had the same question. I mean, couldn’t the same thing have been accomplished with just the two that went into the Towers?

They could have “fooled” us a lot longer, if they had just settled for that. The Pentagon thing made it obvious that the whole thing was a lie, because of the unbelievable cover story.

That’s what I’ve never figured out. It was just such a stupid thing to try and sell even a person of average intelligence. So, they should have KNOWN the public would figure that one out.

It seems like just the standard arrogant ignorance or hubris, that would make them believe that story would fly.

And THAT leads me to believe, (as I did long ago) that they really don’t CARE if we believe them or not.

Then again, Cheney never planned on it being investigated. Remember how hard they fought to prevent it? So, I guess that’s where the cover story got all jacked-up.

#105734 by Peter RV

“...what was the purpose of making disappear those two airliners with crews and pasengers?”

All for show. As I pointed out in my last post, politicians/policemen planned this caper and these are not the most competent criminals on the planet.

Just try to hang onto the concept that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon. It really doesn’t matter why it didn’t hit the Pentagon or even why it was claimed that it did.

Remember: an inferno of fire supposedly burned those massive jet engines into nothingness, “poof” into the air as smoke, but when one looks through the windows right next to the hole where the massive inferno “burned,” all manner of perishable items such as paper, computers and office furniture, did not feel any such heat, as they did not disentegrate into smoke. Something called “heat induction” would have incinerated all that office equipment. Lay a piece of paper too close to any flame. Heat induction will burn the paper. The govt claimed at the Pentagon that they recovered an amazing amount of a/c passenger DNA and ID’d it, thus “proving” that that flight hit the Pentagon, but how could they ID any DNA that could not have survived the inferno so hot that it caused massive jet engines to disappear in a cloud of smoke, engines that were specially designed at the most rigorous engineering standards to contain burning jet fuel all day for many years?

One can’t say “up is down” only for this moment, and “black is white” only sometime. One can’t have things both ways. One can’t say there was a massive inferno that “poofed” even more massive jet engines in the same room with fragile paper and DNA of humans that survived intact while it was lying within a few feet of the airplanes engines that “poofed” into smoke. Can’t say it. Don’t try.

I think you are still locked in the “ordinary American citizen” mode that wants, hopes, prays to be able to believe what govt tells you. At this juncture in time, this is a non-survivability trait like the dinosaurs suffered during the Ice Age.

Further, Peter (and all), the ACTUAL carrying out of 9-11 had nothing whatever to do with bungling. This was because highly competent career agents with ultimate knowledge in all the necessary fields to complete the op actually did all the critical work. How, then could any allude that timing of crucial moments was bungled?  How could one say the setting of explosives in the towers (and maybe even the Pentagon) were acts of bungling? Navy Seals, for example (if these were employed and I can’t imagine them not being in on it in some way), don’t bungle the setting of explosives.  Neither does any other seasoned black Intel operative.

Where the bungling comes in is when it touches the politicians involved, whose main function in the crime/sedition were putting it all together, the general planning, authority, and cover up. Contrary to all popular beliefs, politicians are abysmally incompetent except for some of them in the kinds of diabolical ways Cheney, for instance, is competent, which arises out of sheer ruthlessness like swamp gas hovering over rotting vegetation.

Another factor to plug in: policemen, of which all the perps are/were, do not make competent criminals simply because they are so accustomed always to getting their way without working at it. They don’t have to “work at” getting away with murder. It’s easy enough just to do it and let superiors cover it up.  Policemen are probably THE most privileged bunch in the history of the world, like little Pharaohs running around loose. 

Thus, in the ordinary criminal world of “survival of the fittest,” cops don’t need to be smart to survive, only follow orders and be as subservient as a dog to superiors/bosses.

Thus, cops make the most incompetent criminals when it comes to the point of “pleading a case”/covering up facts (such as the 19 Arab hijackers armed only with box
cutters—and others too numerous to name.) They have been getting away with murder so long, what the hell, 911 was just another murder even if it had to be 3,000 of them morphing into1,000,000-3,000,000 or even 40,000,000. 

How do they “cover up” the fact that a giant 757 did not hit the Pentagon as claimed simply because no airplane remains were left?  Hell, just say it totally disintegrated. How? Hell, just say it was burning jet fuel. But if jet fuel disintegrated everything with such intense heat, how did DNA samples survive in order to identify the a/c passengers? Hell, just say this was a miracle.

It was also a miracle that office equipment (such as reams of paper) sitting very close to the “inferno” that “disappeared” the plane, did not burn. Another miracle.

Miracles abounded on that day.

And so, when you can get away with saying any damned thing you want for purposes of cover up, and you are very seldom challenged, it doesn’t exercise your brain function too well and you are not able to think all these pesky little details through. This is why policemen make incompetent criminals and bungled 911.

CheneyIsraelCo should have gone into some prisons, checked out the smartest of the criminals (yes, even smart criminals can be busted), and then, on promise of freedom, put him/them in the position of concocting the cover story.  When the work was done, they could simply shoot him/them to death and leave none to tell the tale. Even a good dime detective novel writer could do it better than CheneyIsraelCo did it. 

I’m not a criminal but one that simply knows the criminal/police mentalities. I could have done a better job than the entire “think tank” of “pretty boys” they must have employed to concoct the ridiculous cover stories that intelligent citizens are supposed to swallow. Of course, since I’m not a criminal/police mentality, but only one who intimately knows the inner mechanisms of the damned things, I’m not for hire.

Peter RV, by “acts of ruthless desperation” and how driven the 911 perps were, does not equate with “not well planned,” or “people that were freaked out of their minds.”

ANY major criminal activity is an act of desperation.
This is why the word “desperado” is attached to criminals in general. Normal people can’t be called “desperado” because normal people don’t do such things. Thus, the 911 perps were “desperate.” Not to mention desperate to achieve their agenda. Desperate agendas call for desperate activity sometime.

One can be the most meticulous, calculating criminal genius in the world and still be “found out” by observing what is normal behavior measured against what is not normal (or “outside the box.”)

It is plain that none of these people are what one could call ordinary criminals or even criminals at all. Most of them are wealthy businessmen/govt officials. They don’t normally make their living robbing people at gunpoint and mass murdering them. This is why so may glaring incosistencies exist in their behavior. There is no way in hell a regular criminal type (with higher than average intelligence) that has done tikme in the joint,  would plan a caper like 911 and then claim it was pulled off with “box cutters.” 

I know both the criminal and police mentalities, and I know them EXTREMELY well. “Box cutters” is well within what a police mentality committing criminal endeavor would think “cool.”  However, no criminal mentality with any brains AT ALL would come up with suich a lame story.

The police mentality likes to say that criminals are the most brilliant things since ice water and that they can do anything by using anything. This makes cops look real smart for keeping “just one step ahead.”  Many times I have heard cops say, “Give a criminal a toothbrush and he will made a fully auto machine gun out of it.” Or words to that effect.

The police mentality is known to blow the intelligent capacity of criminals way, way out of proportion. 911 was just another case of countless others.

#105686 by Peter RV

•  The purpose of all this? I refuse to be treated as an imbecil by my lying and corrupt Government.
Call it a pride of a fool, but I will insist. There shall be no surrender.

PETER RV;

I hear you loud and clear on this. I feel exactly the same way, and have for quite a long time now. Since day one I suppose. And, I don’t think it’s a matter of being the pride of a fool. Not by a long shot. The “fools” are those who remain in denial. But, they may call it ignorant bliss.

It doesn’t work for people like us though. So, you’re right. There shall be no surrender. Thanks for the motivation. I need it myself as well.

You, Franker than Frank, and Robert have all helped me more than you can imagine, because it would have taken me, (who knows how long) to make the Isreal/Mossad connection. I knew only that there was (had to be) a CIA connection. And, I suspected a Saudi connection as well. (though not until later). Even I, have only recently, (say the past year or so) finally come to realize that while “al-Qaeda” is not entirely a myth, I don’t believe they had anything to do with 9-11. BUT, I’m still working on that.

If you have access to it, the book “The Looming Tower” gives some history (an excellent one actually) of the origins of that group, and some history on Zawahiri and bin Laden. It’s not critical to the part of the thing that you and the others are looking at, but it’s good background for linking the ‘official’ white wash to the overall theme they presented.

Hang in there. There will be no surrender. (just stay in touch…so we can try to save each other from possible rendition and or ‘disappearance’.

1 of 2 to #105545 and #105617 by FtF

Thanks for the additional input. (more than you know), even though it forces me to consider far worse things for the passengers and crew aboard those flights. In other words, it would be emotionally ‘easier’ to believe that they actually did die, since the fate you suggest, is far, far worse. (and, I’ve just had this horrible yet undefined fear of the same, myself) I don’t ‘entertain’ it as often as I used to, but the truth is that it’s been a ‘fear’ that I can’t give any specifics to, or at least am too paranoid to voice them out loud..ie, connect the dots.

But, I know too well, that your connection to gulags and such, are very, very, very real. I know it because of what I’ve been learning about the entire rendition/torture operation of the CIA for the past 6 years. We know that the CIA was snatching folks up all over the place, (around the world) and shipping them off to torture facilities in various locations. This much is fact. Many of the gulags are thought to be in Eastern European spots, but Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others have been mentioned as well. Also, many of the same foreign countries, (including Germany, the former Yugoslavia, and others) have been targeted, (much after the fact) as supplying the air facilities and equipment for the transfer of all of these people. (at least 1,000 have been run through Gitmo, and that’s just “Arab and Asian terrorists” that were rounded up back then). Other smaller, (and lesser known) private or what I call semi-commercial air carriers, (cargo only included) have had associations with the CIA in the past. More recently, there was even a connection to Jeppesen, (another aviation equipment supplier of planes and charts, and various equipment) which has also been connected to these ‘renditions’.

I don’t know why I would never have considered that the same fate could have become the folks on those airplanes. It’s difficult to imagine why they (the gov) would bother with kidnapping and secretly imprisoning those passengers, since the excuse for doing the same to so many others, was because they were alleged “terrorists”. But, since so many of them (the ones swept up in Afghanistan and Pakistan and other places at the time) were never guilty of anything EITHER, (some of whom are still imprisoned) then what would make those people on the planes any different? The combined total (passenger and crew) was just at or around 250 people from all 4 of the airliners. It is an unusually low count, for that time of the year. And, I mentioned before, that many of us in the industry ‘noted’ the very eerie ‘silence’ of the larger airports at the time. (because it was so unusual)  Airlines can’t afford to operate near empty airplanes, and…they don’t.

Nor would they simply allow them to be trashed into the deep blue sea. Something else I hadn’t considered, though I had considered the thought that any airship so directed, could be a hazard for possible discovery, even if it was decades later. (they were able to locate Kennedy Jr’s small plane, and the Egypt Air flight that went down in about the same area, some 7 or 8 years ago. They (US authorities) eventually determined pilot suicide on that, a finding the Egyptians have refused to accept, because it is SOOO contrary to their culture of Islam.. Arabs/Muslims simply DO NOT take their own lives, and the Egyptians were highly insulted when US agencies deemed that one pilot, to have caused the crash intentionally. Although, in that case, I would have come up with the same thing the US authorities came up with. The planned suicide of the co-pilot in the seat at the time.

TBC

Part 2 of 2 #105545 and #105617

But, I stray. The very important element that you pointed out, the difference between the reaction of the WTC families, and the a/c passenger families, is one that I had not considered before, and it requires now, that I follow it through to the reactions and behaviors of the airline personnel as well. These airlines employ many thousands of people between them. (or, they did then). Why are they –too- so strangely silent?

I mean, in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, they hollered about reinforcing cock-pit doors, and getting permission to carry weapons on board, (I can’t think of a worse thing, and incidents since, have proven THAT out with innocent passengers killed by the feds). But STILL, not any sort of ‘wondering’ or questioning – at least out loud – about how unbelievable this whole story is, based on what should be their own experience, as well as mine. (I mean, smart as I am, I’m certainly not the ONLY smarty produced in the field). How is it that MOST of the remaining personnel in this field, would seem to be as remarkably silent as the families? That has troubled me for a long time. As a matter of fact, most of them (at least the ones that I’m still in touch with) AVOID talking about it at all. Could they all be victims of the same collection of ‘tactics’ that may have been used to keep the victim families silent?

Well, I’d say yes, at least for many of them. I can say this because in the past, these companies have committed their employees to ‘silence’ about other issues, even as mundane as sales campaigns that they don’t want the ‘competitors’ to find out about, before the product is launched. In doing so, the majority are also kept in the dark, and only those groups or departments involved are privy to the ‘details’ of which they are sworn to secrecy. So, this is an on-going theme for me. I don’t believe this could have taken place without some knowledge of the airlines themselves, and you noted that, just in the whole point about them not wanting to trash these very expensive pieces of equipment. (and all 4 of those airplanes were relatively new to the fleet – not to mention being among the more expensive vehicles within the fleets.)

At the time, AA, UA and other carriers, did massive and brutal lay-offs hey were not managed in the standard way that lay-offs/furloughs have been managed in the past. (seniority)  The cuts were massive yet selectively so. How is that? And, this was after the government bail-out. (from the total amount of funds involved in the bail-out, 37 airlines applied for funds. American got the lager portion of it, (like 3/5ths) United was next with maybe another 1/5th (these are very rough estimates from memory) and the remaining carries split the last 1/5th.

While it was ‘known’ at the time, that UA and a few others were experiencing some financial troubles, it was NOT common knowledge that AA had recently ‘acquired’ TWA, and was in the process of attempting to merge those two operations. It had turned out to be an arrogant move that could have bankrupted them, if not for the incident, which allowed an excuse for “downsizing” which was really only a ‘downsizing’ of the labor/manpower.

Those who have survived the purge, remain silently non-curious. Those whom I’ve known for so many years, who I might suspect to question this whole thing, also remain strangely silent, among the purged and non-purged alike.

It’s creepy for me. How could they possibly stay silent? How could they not question or be sickeningly appalled by the thought that they may be complicit, (even by extension) of such atrocities? It’s like a group of medical doctors acting in concert to accomplish massacres within pockets of humanity.

Just musing I suppose, since it is your suggestion that brought this back to the front of my mind.  Depressing.

This is an extension of what I wrote in my last post.

There is a way the aircraft passengers’ families could be approached and threatened to the core without doing it like the Capone gang of the Roaring 20’s-30’s did it.

Here is a crude threat, “Okay, we have your loved one on ice (in “x” Halliburton gulag) and if you don’t keep quiet and support our fantastic tale about 9-11 when we trundle you out into public for propaganda purposes, we will murder/torture said loved one to death.”

No, that’s too crude for today’s standards. At taxpayer expense (a bottomless pocket), only the best psychiatrists/psychologists/psyops experts—not just in this nation—but the entire world design such ploys. Intel ops are much more sophisticated today than Capone knew anything about.

Here is a more likely scenario to threaten the families of the a/c passengers (if they are still alive and imprisoned as I think the case very well could be and probably is):

Two highly personable Intel op agents knock on Mrs. Jones’s door. You know, the kind to which you want to break down and confess even for crimes you did not commit just because you think they are so nice.

“Mrs. Jones, we are so sorry to have to tell you this, but your husband on flight 93 is in the hands of terrorists. We are forced at this point to reveal some secrets to you that are above Top Secret and you simply cannot breathe a word about it for fear your husband, Mr. Jones, could be tortured to death by his captors, the ‘Al Queerdo’ terrorists. You could also be targeted.”

The story goes on.

“Something that is not known to the public but we must tell you now is that xyz Flight was hastily landed by the terrorists at a defunct Air Force landing field during the hijacking and all the occupants were put into vans and spirited away to God only knows where. This was before anybody even knew the craft had been hijacked. The remaining terrorists went ahead and flew empty flight xyz into the Pentagon and committed suicide as planned, but your family member is now in terrorist custody.”

The plot thickens.

“At this point,” says the kindly Intel ops guy to the grieving Mrs. Jones, “your hubby is now imprisoned in a foreign terrorist country [maybe Korea or Iran] and we are trying to get them back by diplomatic means. It could take many years or it could happen tomorrow. Nobody could know. But you must keep silent and not raise any ruckus if you hope ever again to see your loved one alive. You simply must trust in your government at this harrowing time.” 

The above is only one of many scenarios. Use your own imagination and you can see how easy it is to threaten somebody and still seem to be the nicest guy in the world.

The ways of the threat are legion. I’m sure Intel agents threaten the chimp constantly:

“Mr. Chimp [Chump], we just foiled a sophisticated attempt on your life after you spoke out the way you did on an issue that was not too cool for yo’ gubmit. We saved your life only by the skin of our teeth. If you do it again you could be assassinated real easy no matter how many trusted SS agents are around you. Remember JFK.”

It doesn’t take much to issue dire threats to politicians in a way that leaves no marks. The same is true of any individual, especially those that are off balance to begin with, such as the a/c passengers’ loved ones. ANYBODY on this earth can be threatened to the very core of their being and know they are in imminent danger of being zapped, maybe on the spot, while the one issuing the threat seems as above board and solicitous as the most loving and caring medical doctor in the world while tending a patient.

And so, if it has happened, the above would be a rough example of how the loved ones of the a/c passengers could have been threatened into the uncharacteristic cooperation they have consistently exhibited for over six years while the WTC loved ones have been screaming bloody murder.

This eight ton steel I-beam is six inches thick. It was selected to be preserved for future generations for the near perfect horseshoe bend ... it bent without almost a single crack in it. It takes thousands of degrees to bend steel like this.

WMV video download (597kB)

Thermite and the
WTC Collapses

Following the World Trade Center collapses thermal hot spots with temperatures in excess of 7000C existed deep within the wreckage of the buildings. These temperatures were sustained for a long period of time.

World Trade Center Thermal Hot Spots
Image source: USGS Spectroscopy Lab
The temperature at the core of “the pile,” is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials, who add that the fires are too deep for firefighters to get to. [ABC News, 9/18/01]

  “This is how it’s been since day one…and this is six weeks later. As we get closer to the center of this it gets hotter and hotter - it’s probably 1500 degrees.”

WMV video download (616kB)

  “Out on the rubble it’s still, I believe, 1,100 degrees. The guys boots just melt within a few hours.”

WMV video download (130kB)

In perfect conditions the maximum temperature that can be reached by hydrocarbons such as jet fuel burning in air is 15200 F (8250 C). When the World Trade Center collapsed the deeply buried fires would have been deprived of oxygen and their temperatures would have significantly decreased.

Why was the temperature at the core of “the pile” nearly 5000 F hotter than the maximum burning temperature of jet fuel a full seven days after the collapses? There were no infernos in either of the twin towers before they collapsed, so what caused the hot spots deep in their wreckage?
Dr. Frank Gayle, Metals Expert, on the jet fuel fires which burned in the WTC buildings:

“Your gut reaction would be the jet fuel is what made the fire so very intense, a lot of people figured that’s what melted the steel. Indeed it didn’t, the steel did not melt.”  [Firehouse.com]

Molten steel did not exist in the WTC buildings prior to the collapses, but…

Molten steel was found three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed [from WTCs 1 & 2], Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed mysteriously in the late afternoon. [American Free Press]
  One of the more unusual artefacts to emerge from the rubble is this rock-like object which has come to be known as “the meteorite”. “This is a fused element of molten steel and concrete all fused by the heat into one single element.”

WMV video download (376kB)

What caused the steel to melt? How did it stay molten for weeks after the collapses? Why did fires in the WTC wreckage burn for months after the collapses?
Underground fires raged for months. O’Toole remembers in February [2002] seeing a crane lift a steel beam vertically from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero. “It was dripping from the molten steel,” he said. [Philadelphia Inquirer]

Five months after the collapses molten steel was being pulled from the World Trade Center wreckage.

Conventional fires cannot explain the above, but thermite can.

A thermite reaction generates extraordinarily high temperatures (>25000 C) and provides a credible explanation for the fires, hot spots and molten steel (a by-product of the thermite reaction) found in the collapsed buildings.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/thermite.html

#105516 by L. Thomas
Dear L. Thomas.
Thanks for picking up on my error, (August rather than September) which I only realized after hitting the submit key. (It was 3:00am, and I’d been writing all day, on this as well as my sort of ‘real job’ now).
So, while it is –minor- (and the whole long sleeve shirt thing was just an ‘aside’ from me anyway, since it really has no bearing on the irregularities of the entire 9-11 offical story) I appreciate that you noted it, and picked up on it.
I think my point in throwing that in, was to provide support for the whole strangeness of the scene at the Pentagon, more to illuminate what was NOT there, as opposed to what WAS there!! That is to say that if in fact there had been an actual airplane crash at the site, (a commercial a/c) the response would have been (should have been) literally DOZENS and DOZENS of emergency crew and vehicles, lights flashing, etc, etc. Instead, we see a couple of fire/rescue squad types, one fire truck, and a gathering of men in business attire. This is of course beyond bizarre for such a scene. (having spent 25+ years in the aviation/commercial airline industry, I’ve experienced the trauma of other ‘real’ airline tragedies). So, that was more my point, to just note how totally unreal that entire scene was, from the point of my own experience). And, this scene would have been equally bizarre and unbelievable, no matter what time of the year, or geographic location provides the ‘setting’.
Because, that’s what my own experience tells me it is – a “setting”. I don’t believe that a Boeing 757 passenger jet ever crashed at the Pentagon, or in that field in PA. And, I’ve been convinced of that since 9-12-01. (the day after) In the ensuing years, and specifically since the publication of the “official report”, my original suspicions have continued to find verification. Here again, more because of what was NOT there, than what was. Still, as with any one of us hoping to find the real truth of the catastrophic event that has changed our entire way of life, and the way we live it, finding the answers has become a collective effort, and without assistance from the very agencies and institutions that should have provided the info, we just stumble along. Battling a white wash of gigantic proportions, makes it all the more of an “elimination process” almost like needing to prove a negative, and we all know how impossible that can be.

Still, thanks for brining it up.

FtF, you (as usual) have given me even more to consider, and I’m about to respond to that as well.

CYRENA, about the a/c passengers’ possible whereabouts:

When one is trying to get to the truth of mysteries, especially those related to human behavior, the first thing to observe is what is “normal” vs. “abnormal.” People that behave abnormally when set against a backdrop of what is normal can reveal a lot of “loose ends” about which to cogitate. Pondering on “loose ends” can in turn reveal a lot of treasure.

There are several reasons I think the a/c passengers could have been imprisoned until they could be disposed of in some manner other than immediately “up against the wall.”

There is the pesky reality of the “normal” reaction/behav of all the families at WTC ground zero, folks that fight the “official conspiracy story” tooth and claw, and they have done it VOCIFEROUSLY! because this is their loved ones at issue, not strangers. They scream, LIARS!LIARS!LIARS!
Even the dead that have not been recovered at WTC have caused screaming and hollering from the families. But ALL the families of the a/c passengers I know about are strangely silent, and when they have done their few “public appearances” it has been to say, “I firmly believe all that the govt is telling about 9-11.”  This is a remarkable contrast with the loved ones of WTC victims.

Why the contrast? What does it mean?

It would be NO prob to imprison the a/c passengers and throw the key away until Cheney or whomever can figure out what to do with them, if anything. When was the last time you heard about an escape from any maximum-security prison? I’m talking MAX STATE PRISONS WITHIN PRISONS such as where death row inmates are warehoused, not city or county jail facilities. There are max prisons from whence escape is impossible.

The WTC families behav vs. a/c passenger families is my largest ? factor here.

Another, since the criminals at the top are so money hungry, I can’t imagine them just ditching those a/c’s in the ocean and throwing away hundreds of $millions$ for 4 perfectly functional aircraft that could be sold to any other country, and all the most important ID numbers simply scrubbed/changed. If anybody later found one or two or more pertinent ID numbers on a newly christened a/c flying around, so what? There is a hell of a lot more evidence than this re 911 that is being answered, “So what?”

I think it has been pretty well established that none of the a/c as claimed hit any targets, but were specially outfitted “shadow” craft switched out. The actual attack craft had to be wasted, but why waste hundreds of $millions$ just to drown a few hundred passengers? What greedy criminal, especially Jewish (yes, here’s my “prejudice”) do you know that would throw away $100,000,000 when he could as easily pocket it?

AT THE VERY LEAST flight 93 and the one supposedly hitting the Pentagon “totally disintegrated, disappeared” bodily, leaving only a few small unidentifiable pieces, right?  These pieces could have come from junkyards and planted at the crime scene.

And so AT LEAST two large, expensive passenger a/c’s “disappeared.”  How many hundreds of millions would these things be worth on the world black market? That DNA tests ID’d most of the a/c passengers at the Pentagon, has been sufficiently debunked, so we can be sure the passengers “disappeared” with the craft.

The guards patrolling the new gulags that exist right now could not care less who they are guarding. Most of them could even be foreign nationals that would strangle their own mothers if ordered and paid to do it. Since the foreign nationals wouldn’t understand English, the prisoners could not cry for help. In a prison only one person need know the identity of their prisoners and that’s the one that put them there.

For the foregoing reasons, I think most of the a/c passengers of all 4 craft may still be alive.

Hi Peter (#105364) Part 1 of 3

•  Cyrena, I need rational explanations.
With reference to Pentagon.

I think you’re feeling some frustration (I know the feeling) I wish I could give you some, (rational explanations) but as you’ve noted yourself, there aren’t any. Nothin’ matches nothin’. Now, I did just take some time to look over some photos on line, (I didn’t see the ones that ITW directed us to), but there are plenty on-line now, that weren’t there when I looked, even a year ago. (at the beginning, there was like one or two photos) And, keep in mind that since I never believed this possible from the beginning, I hadn’t really kept up. But, I’ve looked again, and it’s helpful. Robert has also noted below, that a Rummy interview a month after 9-11, revealed a slip of a ‘missile mention’. (which is what I’d originally suspected, but with little personal experience to really know what missile damage looks like).

Still, let me see how I can break this down (even with missing pieces) to at least know what we can know for now. First, I’ve always been convinced that AA flt 77 did not crash at the Pentagon, simply because I’ve seen too many commercial airline crashes…up close and personal, but also in photos. As FfT mentioned, never in the history of aviation, has an airplane crashed without leaving any sign of wreckage. Even LITTLE airplanes will have something. So, that’s the biggest clue for me to begin with. We can intellectually accept that that from the WTC, (no visible wreckage) because we now know that those Towers were blown up. (there’s no way around it) So, if the demolition could bring those towers down in the free fall 10 second (or less) time frame, then that could have exploded those airplanes as well. (they are after all, like ants compared to those buildings). That’s not proof that they did, but it’s all we have, so we’ll just accept that for now.

I wanted to mention though, regarding the ‘remote’ control of all 4 aircraft, that it certainly could have been accomplished, ‘remotely’. HOWEVER, it could ALSO have been programmed that way, before the airplanes even left the ground or the gates where they originated. It could have been accomplished by uploading the flight plan to the Flight Deck Computer. This is relatively new, (or…it was at the time) and not ALL of the carriers’ Boeing 757’s or 767’s are configured with these computers. (they all have computers but not all have these types of FDC’s) At the time, these particular a/c were used for long-haul international flights – think overwater. Now, none of these flights were scheduled (for those legs) to be overwater flights, but the same aircraft are used for transcontinental flights. If memory serves me, (need an old sched. to double check) AA flt 11 used to operate between maybe LAX and LHR, and AA 77 had an international leg to it as well. Still, my point is that most of these aircraft are at least equipped to operate overwater, via that FDC, even though they are used on other routes.

The reason this is ‘possibly’ important, is because there’s only a certain ‘mileage’ distance outside the US coast line, where radar is available. Once the aircraft gets out maybe 50 miles (I’d have to double check, and it depends on the route or the ‘track”) there is simply NO RADAR. So, the flight plan is uploaded in a way that synchronizes when the cockpit crew will report to the closest air control center as they go along, because they have to communicate with them via whatever other “communications” systems there are. In other words, they have to like “call in” via an electronic transmission. And there’s a point/time when the air control folks will be expecting them to hear from them. It’s all programmed in. It’s the only way to know that the airplane is on course and where it’s supposed to be a given point in the plan, since there’s no radar over the Ocean.

TBC

Part 2 of 3 Peter 105364

Nearly ALL of this traffic is handled by BOSTON CENTER/FAA before beginning that overwater part of the flight. (then they get to Gander and some other ones along the way – my charts are all still boxed-up, and I can’t remember without looking at them). But, I said that to say that while we would need the correct ship numbers for each of those planes, to compare with the configuration, (to verify is was an overwater equipped a/c) the chances that all 4 were so equipped, is in my best guess, about 90%. If that is the case, those airplanes could have been planned well in advance, (and without anybody “manually’ doing it….the flight plans are done at a central location, and uploaded there as well). A mechanic will of course check the thing, to make sure it’s OK in so far as the equipment itself goes, (these are avionics guys) but they don’t check the actual plan. The cockpit crew of course would check the plan, but they’re looking at a paper copy of what is SUPPOSED to be programmed into that computer. So, THEY don’t necessarily know the exact workings on the upload end of it either. They’re going by what’s on their paper. Now, they would notice if something was “awry” with the plan they have, and the plan in the computer, but not if the first portion of the plan is standard. In this case, (and this is speculation because I don’t know) they could have been planned –as normal- for the first part of the flight…UNTIL, they just (apparently) DROPPED right off the radar. THAT is what would happen, if the thing was planned for an overwater operation. (they would have done just about exactly what those airplanes did just before they headed into the towers, and on the overwater plans, Boston Center would have been the last folks they talked to, until they got to the next checkin/way point, over the Atlantic.

So….that’s how that COULD have happened, as far as a ‘remote’ control question is concerned. That much I would be able to check myself, if in fact any of that stuff was still available. It SHOULD be, but I no longer have any “official” access to it. (and, if this is what occurred, then I’m quite sure that all of that was destroyed anyway, and not even in the place where those records should be kept. They should be kept with the FAA, as well as with the individual carriers. The official commission report doesn’t even mention flight plans that are supposed to be on file at those locations, in triplicate…who knows if they even looked at them, since even something as simple as the passenger manifest was apparently jacked-up.

That too, is really suspicious for those times….no excuse for the manifest to not be complete and accurate before the flights ever left the gate. 25 years ago, maybe it would take some time to manually reconcile actual name/tickets on the manifest. NOT in 2001. They’d long since used a more efficient way to do that reconciliation as the flight boarded. So, there’s never been a logical explanation for the fact that it took them so long to come up with that manifest, or why the names changed. They would have known where every single passenger was sitting, if they had a kid or an infant with them, and they could pull up FULL information on each and every person on board that flight, including how they paid for the ticket, where they purchased it, who sold it to them, if they checked bags, blah, blah. INSTANTANEOUSLY!! (they would have also noted any special meals, and if the passengers did not speak English…maybe even a bump on their asses). Each person would also have been required to show a PHOTO ID, that would need to match the name on the ticket/boarding pass, (which is what shows on the manifest) and if it was a passport, that ID number would have also been in their records. ALL of this would have been noted in each passenger record, before the plane could leave the ground. So, it should have been made available to the Commission. Apparently, it was not, or….whatever.

TBC

Part 3 of 3

As far as I know, there was NO report from the individual dispatchers of each of these flights, (they would be working for the airlines) or the gate agents who would have handled the flights on the ground, and in direct contact with the passengers, as they would have been the ones doing the computer reconciliation. I can’t begin to imagine even the slightest aircraft incident, where they would not have immediately and intensively interviewed these workers. (I mean, even an unruly passenger incident would require a full investigation of all of the personnel involved). There’s NOTHING in the commission report from them directly. (maybe the names of the dispatchers, but no testimony from them). Then of course, there should have been testimony from all of the Air Traffic Control people. (airline personnel for the ground control until the change-over, and then FAA personnel after that) I saw nothing in the report.

Now, I said a lot of that to show you how many folks are involved, who wouldn’t necessarily know what the other’s job was. If that makes sense. I’ve only realized (since the incidents) that there probably are not a whole bunch of ‘rank and file’ people who even KNOW ALL of these functions. I do, just because it worked out that way, and I was “around” for a long time. There may be others that know say a few of the jobs, but not every single piece. (and remember, I was ‘purged’ not long before the incident – and it was real mysterious too – but that’s a whole different story, or maybe not…but I don’t know. I was still on the ‘roster’ but not on the payroll).

Now in this possible scenario, it would not have required any real number of “rank and file” personnel to carry this out. Any couple of folks in the Central Control Centers of the airlines could have accomplished it, really without the rest of the people knowing. At least as far as the airplane operations were concerned. But, the GOV side of it, would have needed to be involved as well. Somebody had to put the explosives in the buildings, though apparently there were no explosives used at the Pentagon. (which would explain the missile – if there was one- and that seems to be the likelihood, since it wasn’t an airplane, and it wasn’t the demolition that happened at the Towers)

The photos of the Pentagon do not show a normal emergency reaction, (from the normal local people that Rummy claims would have responded). There should have been DOZENS of fire trucks at the Pentagon, if they thought they were responding to an air crash. DOZENS. The photos show a few guys (maybe 2) in emergency gear with hoses, maybe a fire truck or two, and then another photo with 6 or 7 guys in office attire, (long sleeve white shirts in Virginia, in August – where the hell did THEY come from) standing in a line looking at the building. Still no sign of an airplane. WTF?

This last bit is from an earlier post by FTF. And, it explains about how there could have been enough criminals (at least from the black ops/CIA part, who would have done this.) From the airline or FAA/ATC side, what FTF explains is perfectly plausible as well. It wouldn’t take as many. And, I’ve known a few “career types” who would possibly do this. Not many, but it wouldn’t take many. I’ve known enough. Since I was mostly a “rank and file” most of the time myself, I can say that I really don’t believe that many ‘rank and file’ types could have KNOWINGLY been a party to it, and like I said, they mostly stay in the dark. But, it doesn’t take that many of THEM to actually know, if they’re only carrying out their own specific job functions.

FTF says:

•  On up the chain of command there are career people looking for promos that will do whatever is necessary to carry out orders, whatever they may be, whether ordering goons to blow up the White House or executing everybody in Washington, D.C. It is just a job to them and they don’t care what they do. There were A LOT of people like this in the know.

More later

FTF,

On Oprah…we’re twins here again. On TV in general actually. I’ve never been a big watcher of it, though admittedly I’ve had spurts, (like maybe a month or two running) when I’ve watched as much as a “normal person”. But, it’s one of the many things that has always left me as the odd woman out. I’ve gone years without having one when I’ve been single. Family just couldn’t understand it. How could she live without a TV? Easy…same way I could live without a phone…I don’t like talking on ‘em…at least not when I was ‘off the clock’.

But, I have one now, and it’s rarely on. I do have a few shows that I really enjoy, but since I don’t use if for the news at all, (local news here is boring) that doesn’t amount to more than a few hours a week, if I remember to watch them. (like, I’m gonna watch “Without A Trace” in a little while, and Criminal Minds is a favorite too. (Wednesdays).

Now OPRAH, has never been at all interesting to me. I watched recently when she had Michael Moore on, but that was only to see him, not her. Dr. Phil doesn’t impress me much either, though I have to admit, he’s better than she is. Still, most of my long term acquaintances DO watch her. My sister wouldn’t miss either her or Dr. Phil. And, over the years, I’ve come to realize that “Oprah watchers” are just of a different mentality. Programmed that way maybe. So, I still love all my family and friends, but it leaves us without a whole lot to talk about, if their main sources of input are Oprah, the Bible, or their church group associations. (like those old school teachers that I used to tour with from time to time. They asked if I’d been ‘born again”. NO!! I was born-right the first time! What IS it with these people?

Same with the Bible. It’s an interesting enough book, and actually has some stuff in it that folks can utilize. But jezze, if you’ve already read it once, why would you just keep reading the same stuff over and over? Why not move on to the Qur’an or the Gita, or maybe a little Buddhist literature. (which is actually my preference, if I had to pick one…I’m basically a Native American type religious person though. Thought my dog was God, though I didn’t call her that.)

Anyway, even though I was never at all interested in any part of the Oprah or celeb world, I figured she was harmless enough. Mindless, but not in a way that would do any damage. WELL…I’ve since had to change THAT estimation, and now I see her as a primary contemporary figure in dumbing-down the American public. She’s just gone right over the damn edge. She should’ve quit with ‘The Color Purple’. (She DID play that role very well).

And, that’s why she would never tackle any serious questions on 9-11. First, she’s not gifted with ‘intellect’. She’s got a measure of street smarts, (that’s the best term I can think of) but you can tell on the few occasions that she actually has intelligent people on her show, (Barack Obama, Michael Moore), that she just doesn’t ‘get it’. When she had Barack on to promote his last book, she asked him if ‘he had WRITTEN IT HIMSELF!! See what I mean? Somebody should just slap the silly out of her. Then there’s that “The Secret” thing that she was promoting. That was the final straw. My friends were sending me stuff in e-mail about this “Secret”, and I was thoroughly outdone. I think it’s worse than taking Ecstasy, ( though admittedly, I’ve never tried that). Still, that’s what it is. An escape from reality in the form of this cult type thinking-brainwashing.  According to this “Secret”, you can just “think” your way into infinite happiness, never mind if you can’t pay the rent or eat. Just “imagine” that your tummy is full, and you have a nice plantation patio where you can sip mint juleps.

So, no 9-11 stuff for her. She’d just make it worse. People are confused enough. Her bosses wouldn’t allow it anyway. So, don’t encourage her. She might try it out of desperation. Ratings are slipping.

#105428 by Robert on 10/07 at 5:58 pm

A Missile, Not Flight 77
Defense Secretary:
“and the missile to damage this building”

ROBERT…THANK YOU!!! This (for me at least) is a FIND. It confirms what I’ve always suspected, but hearing it from the horse’s ass is the final confirmation. I always “knew” that an airplane didn’t do that damage to the Pentagon, though the first “clue” to that, was ….the was nothing there. The second clue was that the description of ‘how’ it allegedly happened, (like sky acrobats…175 mile hair-pin turn, to come up and around and down, and ram right in….leaving nothing behind.) PUHLEEESE!! A fighter jet….maybe…I don’t know. Never worked one of those. A Boeing 757…impossible! I feel like I’ve been vindicated, even if nobody acknowledges it.

Meantime we’re back to wondering what really happened to that flight. I don’t believe the story about the DNA (that they identified all but one) or the morgue, or any of that. I think they’re at the bottom of the ocean. I don’t ‘know’ that, but it’s as good a guess as any. Hard for me to imagine that they were ‘spirited off’ somewhere, and managed to keep silent all of this time, but that’s not impossible I guess. The mechanics of “The Witness Protection Program” would be handy here. Anyway, you do great work.

Just musing on that, brings on another ‘spark’ that I hadn’t considered lately, also brought on by the mention from FTF #105401 on the Oprah 9-11 thing. IF I remember correctly, (because I’ve never watched an entire Oprah show either) I do remember a segment she had some weeks after 9-11, (I was forced to share living space at the time, and other people watched her) where she had the widows of the pilots from all 4 planes. It turns out that the widows of the AA pilots were still waiting, (or had been waiting for a while) for their husbands’ final paychecks. Check this out, the company had not issued their checks BECAUSE - THEY DIDN’T FINISH THEIR TRIPS!!

Now, it should be noted that this is how their pay is set up. 2 paychecks per month. The 1st has a flat base pay, and then the other check has the money for actual hours flown. They calculate based on whatever the scheduled time of the leg is, (say 4.3 hours gate to gate as published). If it takes longer, for whatever the reasons…traffic, weather, maintenance, etc, then they get paid for the entire time. If they can do the leg shorter, they still get paid for whatever the published time is. Those hours go in the 2nd check. Well, since the pilots from AA 11 and AA 77 hadn’t completed those legs, the company didn’t issue them ANY parts of their paychecks!!! Is that not insane? These wives had to raise all kind of hell, (and appear on Oprah) before they eventually got paid!! (Apparently the UA pilots’ windows didn’t have that problem).

Still, this gives you an idea of things. And, I also remember seeing a TV show…(same place I was living at the time) and this was prior to 9-11, that had –in the audience- George and Laura Bush, in attendance WITH Donald Carty, (then CEO of AA) and his wife. (I can’t remember the show, but I do remember thinking it was odd). Carty is a Canadian, and was with a Canadian carrier (also as an exec) before he hooked up with AA – as the chief exec. A few years after 9-11,the AA union folks ran him out of dodge, just before signing yet another agreement’ that would have meant yet MORE concessions from the workers (in pay and benefits). They discovered, just in the end moments of the negotiations, that Carty and his Board Buds, had given themselves $$$$$$ dollar bonuses. The peon workers got wind of it, and forced his resignation, but NOT before cutting him a million dollar check –on the spot- with of course (I’m sure) far more to come later.

So, that’s just some ‘side-poop’. I don’t know of any ‘connection’ to 9-11. But, I’m not forgetting all of the stock movement for both carriers in the days leading up to it.
FTF, I’ll be back shortly with more assessment on Oprah.

A Missile, Not Flight 77
 
 

Defense Secretary:
“and the missile to damage this building”

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was interviewed on 12 October 2001 by Lyric Wallwork Winik (yes, that’s her real name), a columnist for Parade, the magazine that comes in many Sunday newspapers across the US. Although Parade is one of the most mainstream magazines imaginable (think People meets the Saturday Evening Post), Winik blindsided Rumsfeld with a question that few reporters/interviewers have the guts to ask:

“This is a question that’s been asked by many Americans, but especially by the widows of September 11th. How were we so asleep at the switch? How did a war targeting civilians arrive on our homeland with seemingly no warning?”

Rumsfeld is apparently shaken by this young reporter’s forthrightness. First, he admits what few else dare:

“There were lots of warnings.”

Immediately after this sentence, though, the Secretary starts to qualify it. He subtly plays the “we didn’t connect the dots” card:

“The intelligence information that we get, it sometimes runs into the hundreds of alerts or pieces of intelligence a week. One looks at the worldwide, it’s thousands. And the task is to sort through it and see what you can find.”

Although he doesn’t directly say it, it would seem that Rumsfeld is insinuating that the poor, understaffed, shoestring intelligence and defense establishments can’t put together intelligence in a timely manner.

Now things get really bizarre. After admitting that there were plenty of warnings, he says it was up to the FBI and especially state and local law enforcement to deal with the imminent terrorist attack:

“And as you find things, the law enforcement officials who have the responsibility to deal with that type of thing—the FBI at the federal level, and although it is not, it’s an investigative service as opposed to a police force, it’s not a federal police force, as you know. But the state and local law enforcement officials have the responsibility for dealing with those kinds of issues.”

To sum up Rumsfeld’s explanation: 1) The warnings were there; 2) the Defense Department and the intelligence community couldn’t figure them out; but anyway 3) it was up to the FBI, state law enforcement, and local police to uncover and prevent the worst terrorist attack in US history.

Click on link/URL for Rumsfeld “Missile?” ...slip:

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics and History/Missile-Not-Flight-77.html

CYRENA, I was laughing about your assessment of Oprah’s shallowness. True, she is that, but look at all the talking points she could get into on 911. I know she is not too shallow to “get it” on that one. Neither are her producers, directors, etc. She could spend the next 25 years just interviewing 911 people about all the little “nuances” she normally talks about and would have the largest audience in history ere it was done.

I know what Oprah “normally talks about” even though I have never seen a whole Oprah show, but have only passed by a television set that was in the vicinity and from time to time hooked into it for a few minutes to try and figure out a public out here that has the “Oprah mentality,” of which a brother of mine was/is among them. If Oprah didn’t say it, then it has not been said. That guy has seen all her shows and all her reruns for as many years as she has been around and he still does it as though each show is the first one. I can’t stand to watch garbage like that for more than five or ten minutes every ten years or so. Thus, I have not had a TV in the house for many years, and I have never in life been interested enough to follow a program on one,  going on 68. I call it “mental swill,” which is all it is. Watching the history channel might be okay, though, but I can’t stand to put a TV in the house just for that.

I can predict what will happen to folks such as the “911 et al., truth seekers.”  This is only true if trends continue as they are going. One day the gubs will be able to get around to visiting the homes of every “little person” truth seeker.  Basically they will say, “You have every right to do what you are doing, but there is no way we will be able to protect you when criminals break in your home and murder you for doing it. There is a new Al Queerdo out here, a spawn of 911, but the opposite kind from the former. This one hates 911 truth seekers. The U.S is full of Al Queerdo ‘cells.’ We wish we could prevent your imminent demise but our hands have been tied by too much ‘goody two shoes’ legislation. And so, if you keep ‘seeking the truth’ as you are doing, we guarantee you will be murdered by mindless Al Queerdo fanatics that disagrees with you. It’s just a matter of time.”

Then, if said truth seeker keeps it up, sho’ ‘nuff Al Queerdo “fanatics” will murder him/her and be too slick to get caught. It will be played up in the press: “CIA (FBI, BATF, DEA or whomever) tried to warn XYZ about the perils of going against all these Al Queerdo fanatics, but XYZ did it anyway. May the poor soul RIP.”

Eyewitnesses will always see Jewish looking guys hanging around the house at about the same time as the demise. But there will be no conclusive proof it was Mossad, as said Zionists were simply selling Bibles door to door when ten of them (that only “appeared” to be armed but were not) knocked on the decedent’s door accidentally at the same moment and all were invited in. But just because screams and shots were heard shortly thereafter doesn’t mean they murdered the decedent. We must be careful not to investigate innocent people…

This will also have the effect of frightening many more “little people” into submission. If one murder doesn’t do the trick, then 100 identical murders surely will; if not 100, then 1000, and so on.  End of story.

But if the above ploy doesn’t do it, then it will simply be martial law and “UP AGAINST THE WALL, VERMIN! not for your beliefs, but because we have orders to exterminate vermin, but we don’t know where the orders came from as it is top secret.”  End of that story.

#105364 by Peter RV

Sorry to have to say it, Peter, but the U.S. is trash as a nation. Been that way for a long time. It’s how 9-11 was finally able to happen as epilogue to too many prologues, such as shooting an American mother between the eyes while holding a baby in her arms; the unimaginably brutal, mindless massacre of more than 85 innocent men, women and children at Waco, Tx; the bombing in OKC, and lesser events too numerous to name, but which were equally indicative of trashy nation. The nation is trash. I wish I didn’t have to say it, but the truth is the truth.

#105336 by FTF
•  Peter, I hope you don’t think I’m getting on your case. I simply point out that one cannot use a completely reasonable mind to figure out the mind of desperate, treasonous criminals such as the 911 perps, whose minds are not reasonable, but were driven by desperation.

It has just been revealed (at least to me) that FTF is my identical ‘mind-twin’. (he probably already knew it before I did). So, ‘tis a good thing we have him here,- very good;)THE key here is this part…’one cannot use a COMPLETELY ‘reasonable’ mind, to figure out the mind of desperate….(and this would include even the non-criminal but compromised mind) whose minds are NOT reasonable.

There it is. I hate to say how long it took me to finally figure this out; better late than never I guess. I just could have saved myself a whole bunch of heartache and stress if I’d figured it out sooner. Because…it is a skill that I must tap into now…all the time, in order, to assist aging parents, one with bi-polar disorder, who is now in a pretty advanced stage of Alzheimer’s. It has been exceedingly difficult for my sibling, because she still cannot do the ‘flip-thought’ process..ie, switch back and forth between ones own reasonable mind (logic) and the thinking process – which sometimes can only be a guess- of the mind that doesn’t think logically.

•  Here Fisk is talking directly to his boss, the editor.  Since Fisk was not fired, destroyed or killed, and his article was published, this means his editor’s CIAMOSSAD guidebook cleared it for print.

Here is why a lot of people get pissed at Fisk. (I think) They think he knows stuff (and he may) and isn’t telling them. The other biggies that FtF mentioned have the same issues, though I don’t think I’d include Oprah as “in the know” about anything to do with 9-11. Her’s is a very superficial mentality. I don’t know about Jay Leno. He may know something. But, even for those who do, it all boils down to the same thing, whether they be the biggies or assorted ‘little people’ –like- me, who might have peripheral-type ‘knowledge’ or at least likely to piece things together if more ‘evidence’ was available….they ain’t talking, because their livlihoods, (if not their lives) would be jeopardized. Since my livelihood has already been wiped out, and because I’ve removed myself from the physical environment that would continue to make me a target, (though I’m sure my whereabouts are known) I’m relatively harmless at this point. (I know, I know…it all sounds so “cloak and dagger” which is why folks with lesser ‘imaginations’ think I’m the crazy one).
I would say that’s how they’ve been able to keep this “under wraps” for so long. If people with select pieces of information (that mean nothing without the rest) were to ‘hook-up’ with other even ‘little people’ out there who have another piece Before the WWW, that was far less likely to happen. Now, it is more possible.

That’s why I had suggested in an earlier post, (and I’m not even sure it “made it” to the forum/board) about checking the 911pilots for truth web site. Back at the beginning, I wondered why more of them didn’t question this. But, by then, I was removed from that group of daily co-workers. (I’d already departed the scene). Still, I suspect that many of them did ‘speculate’ among themselves, though NOT –out loud- In part, because they would risk their livelihoods. And…even with that, who do they tell? Who knows who the ‘enemy’ is, even among us? (I hope this makes sense). Say you share your “suspicions” with your ‘boss’, (whom you think is going to have the “authority’ to get the attention of those who need to know what’s going on, only to discover that your ‘boss’ is part of the conspiracy? Sounds like a fiction thriller by James Patterson, except that it’s real life.
Anyway, I said that because NOW, there are some (pilots) speaking out. BUT, as you’ll notice from the web site, all but one has retired or left the ‘industry’.
To be cont.

#105332 by Robert

Robert, I read that article a little while back. I wondered at the time if it is still another NORAD attempt to clear itself and the man that issued the stand-down order, Tricky-Dick Cheney. The military does dissemble this way, you know. The motto of the military is: “Never divulge the truth if it reflects badly on the military, but vigorously cover it up or sweep it under a rug.”

The U.S. military simply does not admit fault. I think they did do this recently and I was floored by it. It was in relation to the B-52 nuke thing. A military spokesman said, “We were wrong.” It should have been captured in marble and placed as a giant monument in Washington, D.C., as it may have been the very first time in history for the military.

A very small example. I was arguing with the military about using my house as a mock shooting range for helicopters. They were on my house day and night. Sometime to the tune of 500 “mock attacks” per day. I finally got tired of it and contacted the Pentagon. The first officer they sent out was a Major. We were standing in the yard and he was telling me, “This is impossible to believe. No military helicopter has EVER overflown a house in this area. Never! We just don’t do it.”  As he was speaking and shaking his head vigorously NO, NO, NO,”
a pack of Hueys “mock” attacked my house.

I said, “Is this how the military never overflies a civilian home??

He went into “damage control mode.” He screamed, “Can I use your phone! This is just too incredible to believe! Can I use your phone! This is unprecedented in the history of military aviation!”

I went in the house and got him my phone. He screeched and howled at “somebody” for ten minutes playing his damage control role.

Helicopters around here have routinely been “mock attacking” civilian homes for forty years. The civilians have simply become inured to it. But I was new here and refused to tolerate it. The Pentagon issued a long report saying pretty much what the Major did. “The military never overflies civilian homes!”

But very quietly in the background the Pentagon stopped the “mock attacks” on my home and has not resumed to this day, about 12 years later.

I’m sorry that I have to keep saying it, but I wouldn’t believe an “official” word of the military or the govt if they promised me it was not raining outside. I would still go look.

Basically, ying and conniving is not unique to Israel and Zionist Jews, it is just that these are the most egregious, but this kind of thing extends to all governments on the earth operating under an agenda.

Re 105329 ROBERT

Robert, you have put your finger directly on the pulse beat of this animal, that is, the reason why every typical MSM reporter, such as Fisk, above, is deathly afraid of touching 911 with a ten foot pole. They would simply be fired, destroyed professionally, even murdered.  (An aside to Peter: would this be a good reason for a special ops man with top secret military training and clearance to keep silent about a hell of a lot more than mere speculation?  Would one suppose it might cause even 200 special ops men keep silent about a top secret op?)

Read Robert’s article again about Chris Bollyn’s ordeal against the backdrop of the last para of Fisk above where he makes certain he repeats his disclaimer for the umpteenth time: “Let me repeat. I am not a conspiracy theorist. Spare me the ravers. Spare me the plots. But like everyone else, I would like to know the full story of 9/11,…”

Here Fisk is talking directly to his boss, the editor.  Since Fisk was not fired, destroyed or killed, and his article was published, this means his editor’s CIAMOSSAD guidebook cleared it for print.

Robert’s article numbered above is THE prime example why Oprah, Jay Leno, and all the “biggies” of television and film are keeping their legs tightly together on the matter.  They fear they will wake up with the entire U.S. Army raping them between those legs.

CIAMOSSAD cares about “little people” such as those on this forum only enough to put disinfo agents among them to generally quell any spontaneous uprisings of truth that might escape into the world helter skelter. Specimen examples: Pooter/MS, obvious Zionist disinfo agents to the core. But they don’t have the authority to order anybody on this forum murdered. Those with the authority to do this are aimed at people like Oprah and Leno (and obviously Robert’s Chris Bollyn example.)

Thus, all the “little people,” such as those on the forum, become worthies when it is time to be lined up against the wall and showered with a hail of bullets (and that is still not individually but only as a “gang ” so to speak.) I’m so glad I’m a little person. It means I’ll be murdered in the last wave of unimportant truth seekers (UP AGAINST THE WALL, VERMIN!) 

If I get a chance, at the last moment I may be incorrigible till the end, yelling something powerful and truthful like, “I am not vermin!” Having thus stated my last and most powerful truth, I’ll go ahead and meekly take my shower of bullets with the other vermin such as yourselves, and just hope my dog was able to get away.

Peter, I hope you don’t think I’m getting on your case. I simply point out that one cannot use a completely reasonable mind to figure out the mind of desperate, treasonous criminals such as the 911 perps, whose minds are not reasonable, but were driven by desperattion.

Take the recent case of a federal prosecutor that was caught trying to “hook up” sexually with a 5 yr old girl in a “sting operation.” Never mind that he was mentally aberrated even to think about a 5-yr-old in that manner, but what could possibly possess such a man in his position to get involved in such a thing?  He followed all the way through to the extent of buying a doll and ear rings for the child, and “sexual objects” for himself that he carried with him in a suitcase to Detroit by plane to “hook up” with the child. Just “attempting” this with a child under 12 carries 30 yrs in prison.

A normal, ordinary, reasonable person just cogitating about such a thing would no doubt posit, “I wouldn’t even check to see if a federal prosecutor would do such a thing, as no reasonable federal prosecutor would even dream of it. I would always seek elsewhere for that kind of truth.”

Well, a federal prosecutor DID dream of it. Does this mean said prosecutor was not reasonable? It throws a monkey wrench in the “reasonableness” mechanism for determining criminality, doesn’t it?  If this one would do it, how many more must be out there not getting caught? Surely there could be at least one more, right? How would it feel if that “one more” got your own child or a child close to you?

Are you aware that no vocational position on the face of the earth, in and of itself, is beyond suspicion, as the above?  No position on the earth is above ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL SUSPICION. The man “himself” may be above suspicion for all manner of reasons, and many are, as most men are trustworthy and should not be suspected unless evidence leads in their direction, but the “position” is not above ALL suspicion anytime, anywhere. This means the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court could be a man that sexually molests 2 month old babies. To scoff at such a suggestion and hold it to be totally impossible is to put that “position” (CJ) totally above the law, as if the position
were God Almighty, which thus puts the man occupying it above the law as if he were God.

The Pope could be a mass murderer, mass rapist, mass degenerate of all kinds of the greatest magnitudes,  BECAUSE he is a man and subject to man’s frailties.

The above is a lessson in how and why it took America so long to come to grips with 911 and why most of America (and the world) still won’t come to grips with it.  They won’t come to grips with it until they are running down the street screaming, “PLEASE DON’T KILL US ALL! PLEASE DON’T KILL US ALL! PLEASE DON’T MURDER THE LITTLE BABIES AND CHILDREN!”

But at said moment I guarantee the “murderees” won’t be figuring it all out with their “reasonable” thoughts, “Our government officials? IMPOSSIBLE! NEVER HAPPEN! THIS COULD ONLY HAPPEN ELSEWHERE!”

P.S.  Von Bulow’s “very small group” concept does not imply only two or three people. He should have made that clear and said 1-2 or 50-60, as both groups would be “very small” for an op of 911 size.

Is This How NORAD Was Duped?
From A Scientist Inside The 911 Truth Movement…
10-6-7

I suggest you keep these facts in mind as you read the following article:
 
Israel controls all FAA and NORAD encryption codes - through RSA
 
Israel controls security at all major US airports - through ICTS
 
Israel has access to records of 90% of US private telephone companies - through Amdocs
 
Israel has control Financial market software and post-9/11 FBI wiretapping technology -
through Comverse
 
Israel control the software used by all key federal governmental agencies, including the U.S. Army, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Naval Air Command, Congress, the Department of Energy, the Internal Revenue Service, NATO, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service and even the White House - through Ptech
 
Israel now have control of the computers at the Pentagon - through CheckPoints
=
Israel control Congress and the White House - through AIPAC
 
The upper echelons of the Bush administration are riddled with dozens of Neocon Israeli-US dual citizens (Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Donald Kagan, Richard Haas, Kenneth Adelman, Edward Luttwak, Robert Satloff, David Frum, David Wurmser, Steve Goldsmith, Marc Grossman, to name a few)
 
The head of US Homeland Security is an Israeli citizen (his mother reportedly was the first woman Mossad agent)
 
The CIA is infested at virtually all levels with US-paid Israeli nationals and US-Israeli dual citizens
 
This email you are reading is being scanned by Israeli companies contracted by the US government.
 
Now ask yourself: Who benefited most from the attacks of 9/11?
 
Let’s let former Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu take a stab at the answer. His response when asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations: : “It’s very good.”
 
“We control the United States. And the Americans know it.”—Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
 
“Ringing Like Crazy”
 
Were U.S. Military Phones ‘War-Dialed’ On 911?
 
http://www.911blogger.com/node/11795
 
 
“On the morning of 9/11, every NORAD phone had been ringing off the hook… that would be quite a hindrance when you are trying to respond to an unprecedented emergency. And if telephones ‘ringing like crazy’ were really such a harmless occurrence, the U.S. military would have had no need to practice dealing with it during the training exercises that were underway that morning. 
Activists and researchers have long tried to understand how the highly sophisticated U.S. military could have failed so completely to stop the attacks that took place on September 11, 2001. Statements made by several U.S. military personnel who were deeply involved in the crisis response that morning suggest an alarming method that may have been used to sabotage normal defenses. Revealed here for the first time, this is one possible reason that the military was in such a state of paralysis until it was too late to make a difference.
 
NORAD AND THE NMCC
A key military installation on 9/11 was the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) operations center, located deep under Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado. Major General Eric Findley, NORAD’s director of combat operations, was there, and has recalled events around the time of the first attacks. He had just been finishing breakfast when a colleague said to him: “The Federal Aviation Administration’s asked for NORAD assistance with a hijacking.” As he then came back to the battle cab, someone told him: “Sir, you wanna have a look at this.” The monitor was showing television footage of the North Tower of the World Trade Center, with a burning hole in it from having just been hit by an airplane. Before Findley knew it, TV showed the second tower being struck. He said: “We’ve got a coordinated attack.” [1]
————————————-
FOR THE REST OF THE INFORMATION CLICK ON LINK\URL:
http://www.rense.com/general78/duped.htm

Christopher Bollyn Fired
From American Free Press
By Christopher Bollyn
10-9-6

Bollyn, who has written for AFP (formerly The Spotlight) since June 2000, was terminated in an email memo from Petherick “effective immediately.” 
 
Petherick’s letter of dismissal gave two reasons for firing Bollyn: 
 
His first reason: 
Petherick implies that I have submitted false stories. I have, therefore, asked him to clarify exactly which stories of mine were factually incorrect. 
 
Petherick’s second reason was that I was a disloyal employee who had accused AFP of being under the control of some other agency. He said,
I have asked Petherick to show where and when I have accused “AFP of being under the control of some other agency.” 
 
As of this point, Petherick has failed to clarify his accusations and statements. 
 
Petherick concluded his notice of dismissal saying,“For the reasons above, please do not bother to submit anything else to this newspaper. In addition, we will no longer be able to pay your salary. 
 
“This is effective immediately. 
 
Christopher J. Petherick
Managing Editor/AFP” 
It should be noted that Bollyn was fired some 6 weeks after being attacked and TASERed by undercover police at his home. The identities of the three men involved in the police provocation and assault were kept secret for over a month. 
 
American Free Press has collected funds at its office in Washington for a legal defense fund for Bollyn. Bollyn has repeatedly requested a list of the donors in order to thank them personally. As of this point Bollyn has not received a list and has no idea how much money has been raised for his forthcoming legal battle. 
 
During American Free Press’s recent “First Amendment” conference in Washington, Bollyn was told to stay away by the senior staff of American Free Press. Bollyn was told that Michael Piper had given an ultimatum that either he or Bollyn would attend. If Bollyn were to attend, Piper said he would boycott the conference. 
 

 
 
Bollyn’s arrest was followed by an immediate and intense attack on his character by Scott Makufka (a.k.a. Victor Thorn) and Lisa Guliani of WING TV. Bollyn first became aware of WING TV’s character assassination campaign against him on Piper’s radio show in which he was aggressively interrogated by Makufka. 
 
Makufka and Guliani also write for AFP and its sister publication The Barnes Review. They have on-going book publishing and sales arrangements with AFP. WING TV has worked closely with Piper and published a book of his called Dirty Secrets (2005). 
 
Bollyn had only recently started to defend himself from the attacks of Makufka and Guliani by posting factual information about them and their background on the Rumor Mill News website. 
 
WING TV’s “character assassination” attacks of Bollyn are on-going in different forums and continue to this day. AFP has done nothing to stop their attacks against Bollyn. 
 
Photo: Christopher Bollyn (left) and Professor Steven E. Jones of Brigham Young University discussing 9/11 evidence in Provo, Utah in March 2006. Bollyn and Jones have collaborated on a scientific investigation of the molten metal found in the rubble of the World Trade Center five weeks after 9/11. 
 
Bollyn first reported the discovery of molten metal in the summer of 2002 after speaking with two of the contractors who oversaw the removal of the debris. Jones has determined that the metal is from a Thermite reaction, evidence of a controlled demolition of the three WTC towers. 
 
In the past month both Jones and Bollyn have been removed from their jobs after being attacked and publicly humiliated for their 9/11 research. In both cases, a radio show was used to set up a situation in order to malign the two researchers and question their credibility.
http://www.rense.com/general73/bollyn.htm

#105199 by Peter RV
...“I could only agree with a theory which implies a very small number of conspirators. What Cyrena and FtF suggest would involve an awful lot of people which would have surely jeopardize the operation.”...

Here’s what Von Bulow said: When asked precisely which parties carried out the attack Von Bülow said it must have been a “very small group” within the CIA with the help of Saudi Arabian and Pakistani secret service intelligence.

On this Peter, I am also in agreement, (though I still don’t know how these groups are connected with our own government, and the attacks could not have happened without coordination with “our” government.) Still, it could certainly have been PLANNED by a small number/group. The actually carrying out of the operation would be (as you’ve suggested) by others who were not knowingly involved. (like the crews on each of the airplanes to the people on the ground.)
For instance, there is news footage from that day, (WTC) that shows a police officer, security guard, or something similar …holding and speaking into a handheld radio. She (the individual is a black female in a uniform) is saying, as part of her communications, “Ok – Tower (whichever) is coming down, or something to that effect. (I’ll try to find the clip). In other words, she’s getting information on her radio, that the tower is about to blow up. (I don’t remember if it was the North or South Tower, and I’m not saying the words verbatim here, which is why I should try to find the clip for you). But, my point is that she was a well…peon. She was relaying the information of the moment, but there’s no reason to believe that she would have been a “part” of it, or had foreknowledge. She’s just telling the people around her, that the tower is about to come down.
So, it’s perfectly possible that a small group could and would be responsible for the attacks. WHOMEVER that group might be though, could only have accomplished it with the knowledge of our own government, as well as the agencies involved.
•  Here, I am willing to go along with the Gov. as far as Pentagon is concerned, even though there is a formidable question about the small hole in the building and the pulverisation of the whole aircraft. Would like to know who disagrees with me.

Now, on this…we have to make sure we’re talking about the ‘same’ government explanation for the Pentagon attack. If we believe the story of the ‘gov’ that the airplane struck the Pentagon, then I do have to disagree with that, because there’s no evidence of such. NO debris. No passenger bodies. Could a missile have caused the hole in the Pentagon, and pulverized the airplane at the same time? It seems unlikely, (a missile could have done one or the other, but not both) and of course that is not the Gov story anyway. The Gov says that the passengers from the Pentagon were taken to a makeshift morgue some miles away. NOBODY has seen or been to that makeshift morgue, and here again…there is no debris.
Could the airplane have been ‘guided’ into the Atlantic Ocean, while another “something” (missile?) hit the Pentagon? Well, that’s no more far-fetched than the airplanes being “guided” into the Towers. So…I could consider THAT as a possibility. So far, I still can’t come close to the Govs explanation for the Pentagon, for the same reasons as before. It doesn’t account for the fact that NO EVEIDENCE has ever been presented that would prove that AA flt 77 (or any other commercial aircraft) hit that building.

So, we’re back to the same question on the Pentagon, as well as Flt93. WHERE did the evidence go? Even if another pilot shot the airplane down, there should have been debris. There was none. Only what they “told” us about.

So, that’s just something to think on. I don’t have the answers, only the questions.

#105199 by Peter RV

One other small matter, Peter, 757 passenger jets do not disappear or disentegrate (except for three or four unidentifiable pieces) when they hit the ground or a stone wall at 450-500 mph. It has never happened in the history of aviation and it didn’t happen on 9-11 at the Pentagon. Airplanes that size do not totally disentegrate on impact. All manner of easily recognizable pieces remain.  If the Pentagon lied about this, and they obviously did, then why would one assume they would not lie about everything else?

The Pentagon is the most watched and recorded spot on the earth. How is it that on that day and moment, all ten thousand cameras (or how ever many there were) failed to function except for several that didn’t take photos that showed a discernible 757 impact?  If the government had photos showing a 757 impact, don’t you believe they would be “leaking” them all over the Internet, or proudly displaying them to prove their case?

I don’t believe the govt has been forthcoming about any aspect of 9-11, from start to finish.

#105199 by Peter RV
Peter, only three to six black ops personnel could not have carried out all the work of 9-11. At minimum there would have to have been about fifty or so that did the actual grunt work of setting things up. On up the chain of command there are career people looking for promos that will do whatever is necessary to carry out orders, whatever they may be, whether ordering goons to blow up the White House or executing everybody in Washington, D.C. It is just a job to them and they don’t care what they do. There were A LOT of people like this in the know.
Irrespective how hard it is for a normal, ordinary person (such as you must be) to imagine how “all these ops men could be kept quiet,” still, the fact that you can’t imagine it does not cut any ice. There are plenty of things I couldn’t imagine doing, but that doesn’t stop others from doing them.
If you have not been close to black ops you cannot imagine how they are done. It took a full two years of training for me to skim the top of the deeper recesses of Intel work. 
Most Intel people, black ops or otherwise, don’t care what they are doing or why. They just follow orders. They are specially picked, groomed and trained for this propensity. Factor all this in with the fact that every head of every agency at the top of law enforcement is complicit in at least the cover up of 911. And they guard and protect those under them from exposure. All are following orders from the top.
About 99% of any normal, ordinary city and county police agents are not even black ops, but they will ALL arm themselves in whatever manner they are ordered, be it even 3.5 rocket launchers, Gatling guns and bombs, converge on a location, and start pulling the trigger at anything that moves, on orders. They don’t need to know what is going on, who they are killing or why. Of these police forces alone, there are tens of thousands of these very same kinds of people that will do ANYTHING on orders and keep quiet about it later.
Observe the number of people in the URL one of you presented regarding the Liberty, which knew Israel was murdering U.S. sailors. Forget black ops, how many normal, ordinary service personnel saw the communications transcripts that plainly stated, “Israel was aware that it was murdering sailors on the Liberty.” How many would you reckon had to have seen or known—a minimum of 25, maximum of a 75?  That’s a lot of people that knew Israel was murdering the sailors on the Liberty. How many of these came forward at the time? It took forty years before any of them would admit they read the communications transcripts and knew.
How many people knew immediately that LBJ pulled the fighter wing back from defending the Liberty? Did they come forward immediately? Could McNamara not have known? He still claims he didn’t. Highly unlikely. He was DefSec at the time. He’s still keeping quiet at 95.
All the people that knew Israel was murdering the sailors on the Liberty were accomplices to that murder, but they said nothing until forty years later. One of the eye-witnesses even demanded that his testimony not be divulged until after his death, because he was “telling a top secret matter.”
This is exactly how 9-11 was pulled off. People following orders and not caring what the orders were.
 
I wish, in 4,000-spaces, I could give you a college level course that encapsulated 2 full yrs of Intel training, but how could I do it? It can’t be done.
Perhaps this is the best answer: everybody in America is not as good and concerned a citizen as you are with a moral streak that prevents you from murdering on command and then keep quiet about it. And so you will have to reconcile yourself with not knowing entirely how all the people involved in 911 could have carried out orders and still kept quiet about it.

#105071 by CYRENA
Good story, Cyrena. I recall losing some very valuable work way back when I was first learning the way of the Internet/computer/artificial synaptic configs. I just considered it to be an extension of my Intel training from the old days. Indeed, after making it through my earlier military Intel training I have always considered my whole life to be one big Intel training course, and so it has been.
This is called “relevantizing.” (My coin.) If you look around yourself and don’t recognize everything around and about you in your life to be directly connected with the truths and realities you perceive, it is to that degree that your perceptions are not relevant, or “out of whack.”
For example, let’s say you took a course in bricklaying one time. But you never use it for any purpose and it never enriches you in any way. It just seems like a drain on you, wasted time and effort. No future event related to bricklaying ever “redeems” the work you did. Ever afterward you can’t imagine why you took the course. This part of your “truth and reality” is not relevant, because bricklaying does not “work” for you in some way.
One day several years after my consciousness exploded on the scene and I realized what the hell I was doing here and pretty much why, I took inventory of everything around me and what was close to me, including the major events that had happened to me in life. Everything close to me was relevant.  One example that may otherwise seem entirely insignificant was even the little silver ring I had on my pinky at that moment, which was in the shape of a key wrapped round my finger.

You know the saying: “I could wrap this dude round my finger.”  Samo-samo.
And hey, I did have “The Key” wrapped round my little finger at that moment, the Real Key, the Key of keys that was contained within my own consciousness. It was “The Very Key” which opens the door to Ultimate Knowledge of Self (and the whole universe): the Key that the Bible calls, “The Key of Knowledge,” the very thing in the New Testament that Jesus convicts lawyers (the generation of vipers) of “taking away” from ordinary folks.

The word “Avon” was inscribed inside my ring, no doubt the ordinary name of its maker. Read the word backwards. Know what a Nova is?
The word worked in both directions. Avon is a river in England. Nova is a stellar explosion. In the “esoteric” disciplines, such as the Bible employs, mind and spirit are equated with “flowing waters.”  I had just recently experienced a “stellar explosion of flowing waters” within myself and the silver key wrapped round my little finger was the physical symbol of it. This is not at all unlike the “budding staff of Aaron” of the O.T., or remnants of the “manna from heaven,” both of which were placed as artifacts and religious “power objects” within Moses’ Ark of the Covenant.

Everything within my purview at that moment (all physical symbols of my consciousness) spoke to me in the same clear language, telling me, “I am 100% relevant to your life and consciousness.”  Thus were my synaptic configs “relevantized,” as EVERYTHING you perceive to be “around you” and within your consciousness are but physical symbols of your very own personal synaptic configurations and not intended for anybody else except maybe other truth seekers to learn from, as perhaps by this telling. 

Probably you are the only one that will deeply comprehend the above, but I would hope anybody else reading may do the same.  It’s pretty deep and requires a lot of thought.

I can hear the crazies already screaming in pain and I’ve not hit the send button yet.

“BUT WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH 911 AND ME!!!”

Everything, my dear “Watson,” everything.

#105059 by Franker than Frank

Oh Franker Than…I LOVE IT!!! You’ve made my day!!

•  In fact I do recall hitting it twice, but it was because the button didn’t work the first time. It just sat there waiting, nothing happening.

I swear, I’m laughing out loud, because….well, YOU know….I can laugh because I would laugh, (and have many times) at MYSELF in the exact same circumstances.

That means that I have to relate a story from several years ago…more than 10, when I was just TEACHING MYSELF the workings of the personal (as opposed to work) computer and the cyberspace world, and too impatient to read ALL of those instruction manuals, (not that they would cover anything like this anyway). So, we’re talking trail and error at the ultimate level. Over a period of time, I must have gotten to know every single tech support person at Gateway. We were on a first-name basis. I even knew the kids, and when they were graduating or going to the prom. (mind you, I never met any of these folks in person) This was all phone stuff. And, it was ALL THE TIME. (no wonder Gateway no longer this sort of “tech support”. It’s like buying a car, and expecting the dealership to throw in a few years worth of driving lessons and emergency roadside assistance, or maybe just one’s own personal ‘chauffer’ for the life of the car).

Anyway, these many years ago, I was communicating regularly with a friend in New York, who was also ‘new’ to it. He had a WEBTV unit, and had added a printer to it, somewhere along the way. So, we’re writing back and forth, and I sent him some stuff…I don’t remember what now, but it was long. And, the same thing “happened” to me. I sent the thing once, and nothing happened. I waited a ‘reasonable’ period of time, (I love that part…what’s reasonable- eh?) and I sent it again. NOTHING. The thing just sat there. So, I wait another ‘reasonable’ period of time, (and you know by now, that the ‘reasonable’ period of time has gone from maybe 60 seconds, to 30 or less). Still nothing. By now of course…I’m starting to be REAL frustrated, but…I didn’t wanna touch or do anything to it, for fear that it would all evaporate from the screen, and maybe go flying out of the window or something, especially since I was tempted at the time, to throw the whole damn thing out the window. So, I hit it –AGAIN-.

Within minutes, my phone is ringing, and…it’s my friend. He was –HYSTERICAL- He’s hollering and screaming…STOP SENDING, STOP SENDING, STOP SENDING!!! Well, unbeknownst to me, he had rigged up the printer to his unit in such a way that anything that was directed to his inbox, was actually PRINTING out on his little printer. And, each and every time I hit the key on MY end, the entire message was sent to his printer. So, there was reams and reams and reams of shit coming out, and he was just losing it. STOP! He said…you’re using up all of my paper and ink, and the damn thing just won’t quit!!! It’s still just going and going, and it won’t STOP! (Then he even put the phone receiver next to the printer on his end, so that I could HEAR it). Then he tells me again – even more hysterically- STOP SENDING!!

Well, I was laughing so hard, I could hardly speak. I couldn’t help it. It was one of those, -you had to be there- moments. It was just too funny. Finally, I was able to explain that there was nothing I could do on my end, to make it “STOP”! So, when I could get my breath, (and he was still yelping), I told him to push HIS stop button, on the stupid PRINTER. He couldn’t find it, but he was growing more hysterical. (and I was laughing harder, which didn’t help his hysteria at the moment) Finally, I was like….PULL THE PLUG OUT OF THE WALL!! He did. SILENCE. Whew…

And, that was the end of that. Oh Lordy…I will remember it forever. That was my first, (but certainly not my last) acknowledgement of your point…those damn computers DO have minds of their own.

Former German Minister Says Building 7 Used To Run 9/11 Attack
Guide the planes in, then destroy the crime scene

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | April 21 2006

Former Helmut Schmidt cabinet member, 25-year German Parliamentarian and global intelligence expert Andreas Von Bülow says that the 9/11 attack was run by the highest levels of the US intelligence apparatus using WTC Building 7 as a command bunker which was later demolished in order to destroy the crime scene.

Speaking to The Alex Jones Show on the GCN Radio Network, Von Bülow said that “the official story is so wrong, it must be an inside job.”

Von Bülow discussed the special software programs that allow the CIA to track suspicious stock market movements in real time. Record put options placed on United and American Airlines in the week before 9/11, a speculation that the stock would crash, clearly indicated inside foreknowledge of the impending attack.

“If the stock market has very strange movements immediately they take care of this and they had a lot of tapes and the lawyers told the people destroy these tapes.”

“The Bush administration is in a deep defensive [mode] and probably they would like to come out with a new offensive,” said Von Bülow as he considered whether a new staged false flag terror attack could be launched to further an interventionist agenda.

“I would hope that one ‘new Pearl Harbor’ is enough,” said Von Bülow, “but I cannot be sure.”

Von Bülow commented on the disputed identities of the named hijackers.

“The names of these nineteen [hijackers] never came up in the official passenger list, until now there’s no proof they were on the planes.”

Von Bülow also pointed out how the alleged hijacker’s flight instructors told investigators that they couldn’t even fly Cessna’s, never mind complex large commercial airliners.

Von Bülow also touched upon the implausible collapse of the buildings.

“The towers came down in the velocity of free fall which is totally impossible, they fall down in 8, 9, or 10 seconds, the pancake theory is ridiculous,” he said.

Von Bülow also highlighted the fact that there were 67 successful intercepts of errant aircraft in the year of 2001 before 9/11 and yet four planes were allowed to veer wildly off course without any being intercepted on that one day.

Rudolph Giuliani opened a $13 million emergency Command Center (pictured) on the 23rd floor of World Trade Center Building 7 in June 1999 in part to respond to and manage terrorist attacks.

Von Bülow referenced the command bunker in Building 7, calling it the “optimal place” to run the attacks using remote control technology to guide the planes in and then destroying the crime scene by imploding the building.

“There were two procedures, one was flying in the aircraft the second was the explosions,” he said.

When asked precisely which parties carried out the attack Von Bülow said it must have been a “very small group” within the CIA with the help of Saudi Arabian and Pakistani secret service intelligence.

Von Bülow outlined his view that one reason for the execution of 9/11 was to provide the justification for US military bases in the near and Middle East to be built in anticipation for a future confrontation with China, whom the Neo-Cons believe have grown too powerful and need to have their geopolitical wings clipped.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/210406runattack.htm

#105048 by cyrena

CYRENA,I have no reason to believe you are not right about the double hit. In fact I do recall hitting it twice, but it was because the button didn’t work the first time. It just sat there waiting, nothing happening. After a reasonable time I punched it again. Then it posted and I noticed the double whammy. It has happened to me a couple of times earlier. And so it could be said that I did and did not hit it twice. A dilemma.

I am usually on top of what my body is doing and so I knew I had hit the button twice, but at the time I thought it only counted as “one hit.”

You know, this computer thingy does have a mind of its own, though. Sometime when I am writing something to somebody and a real “pithy” paragraph or phrase comes out, unbeknownst to me, my computer will put that very phrase or paragraph in much larger print and even a different style in order to highlight that part, but I don’t know anything about it until I hit the send button and maybe notice it in my outbox if I look at the email again, or when it comes back to me in a reply.

For example, I have said something that sounded as though God may have spoken it, that I didn’t even know was being said (thinking I was saying something else) and those very words, after being sent, would be highlighted in some way. It amazed me when it first began happening, as I know in such cases that I am not doing it but the computer is doing it somehow. I have had a few correspondents tell me that some of my words were especially highlighted and how did I do it. They wanted to learn how. I had to answer that I didn’t know, as I didn’t do it. Do you suppose this computer can really think?

Let me answer: well, of course it can. What do you suppose the Great Singularity will be all about if not artificial Intel?

Thank you kindly for your nice words about the last double post, Cyrena. That “wife” of mine (The Truth)can be really great when she wants to be. The woman amazes me sometime.

Now I’ll try to hit the send button just once.

#105042 by Franker than Frank on 10/05 at 5:18 pm
(164 comments total)

Wow, I don’t know how this thing is doing it, but it just printed doubles of my last post. Maybe somebody wants to call special attention to it. I can’t imagine it would be my “watchers,” as they usually go in the opposite direction. Maybe I have a “watcher” that agrees with me. I hope his boss doesn’t slay him for it.
——————————————

Franker Than,

Here are a couple of reasons, -POSSIBLE- reasons, for the “double post” of your comments. The 1st, could be (you may not like this) is that you hit the submit key twice

I suggest this first, only because I’ve done it myself, (more than once) and other posters have as well. Naturally, it’s been “accidental” in that the posters haven’t been aware that they’ve done it.

Now, if there was an “agenda” somewhere, and some other unknown-unseen human had a hand in it, (like back when so many of our posts were evaporating..very obviously scrubbed) then…it might be because they did want to call attention to it.

But, I would say that in that case, it would be because the particular post that was “doubled” is..in a word or two…..EXCELLENT!! SUPERB!

You put down a fundamental case/argument for what is in fact, just that. Foundational, fundamental. The basis from which nearly all things flow.

So, while nearly ALL of your comments are great, this particular one…regarding the ‘agenda-driven’ -  ANYTHING, and the fact that most humans do have them, -agendas- but particularly groups of ‘anyone’ and generally to ‘control’ another group, population, etc)is fundamental. That’s the point that you made in this post, and that’s why it’s definitely worth it’s weight in gold. (if folks read it)

So, maybe that’s why it got posted twice.

But, I think you just hit the submit key twice without realizing that it had posted the first time.
:0

Wow, I don’t know how this thing is doing it, but it just printed doubles of my last post. Maybe somebody wants to call special attention to it. I can’t imagine it would be my “watchers,” as they usually go in the opposite direction. Maybe I have a “watcher” that agrees with me. I hope his boss doesn’t slay him for it.

Folks, there is only one individual or group that one can trust to be agenda-driven and not have to worry about getting ground under foot by them, and that is seekers of the truth. Nobody else makes the grade. There is only this one. No other agenda-driven agent(s) can be completely trusted, irrespective the agenda.

And so it is not only Zionist Jews that can’t be trusted, although these are on the very top rung of that ladder and are not to be trusted AT ALL, but to lesser degrees it is ANYBODY driven by agenda. And so it is basically a question of categorizing which agendas are least-to-most harmful and deadly.

Take the police for instance, yes, right here in America: any time the public begins to shift too far to an “anti-police brutality” side, the police are known to orchestrate crime waves designed to shift the public back to the other side. I have watched from the very insides of this corrupt operation. And so Israel is not the only culprit that viciously pursues an agenda, but is only the worst of the whole variety.

Basically, the thing boiled down to its constituent components is what one finds in the gangland of the “Roaring 20’s-30’s.” The story is well known. Capone thugs, for instance, might walk into a grocery store whose owner had refused to pay an installment on Capone’s “protection” racket. The thugs say, “Look here what criminals can do to you if we are not protecting you.” Then the thugs break the place up. The store owner pays up.

Same with all the police departments, not just in America, but the whole world. If there is an exception it is a very rare one. I have heard police detectives (and other officers) with my own ears say, “Go get so and so and turn him loose.” Or “Get into this or that gang and let ‘em know we don’t intend to be too tough on ‘em.”  And, I have witnessed undercover police agents overtly fomenting criminal movements in gangs.

I have also noted the overall societal trends that underlay the various magnitudes of “police drives” to herd the sheep back into a “love thy policeman” mode.

And so folks, YOU, not the Jew, are the victim, and that of all these vicious agendas.

As I have noted earlier on this forum, like unto the Founders of this country, I hold that govt is a necessary evil, a ravening beast that is either kept on a very tight leash, or the people perish. There is no choice in the matter, no compromise, no live and let live. No “you do your thing and let me do mine.” It is strictly a do or die thing, always has been, always will: leash the beast or die. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

911 is only a very tiny fragment of what it means to let the beast slip its leash. As large as it seemed at the time, World War II was only a fragment of what it means. Yo’ ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

Folks, there is only one individual or group that one can trust to be agenda-driven and not have to worry about getting ground under foot by them, and that is seekers of the truth. Nobody else makes the grade. There is only this one. No other agenda-driven agent(s) can be completely trusted, irrespective the agenda.

And so it is not only Zionist Jews that can’t be trusted, although these are on the very top rung of that ladder and are not to be trusted AT ALL, but to lesser degrees it is ANYBODY driven by agenda. And so it is basically a question of categorizing which agendas are least-to-most harmful and deadly.

Take the police for instance, yes, right here in America: any time the public begins to shift too far to an “anti-police brutality” side, the police are known to orchestrate crime waves designed to shift the public back to the other side. I have watched from the very insides of this corrupt operation. And so Israel is not the only culprit that viciously pursues an agenda, but is only the worst of the whole variety.

Basically, the thing boiled down to its constituent components is what one finds in the gangland of the “Roaring 20’s-30’s.” The story is well known. Capone thugs, for instance, might walk into a grocery store whose owner had refused to pay an installment on Capone’s “protection” racket. The thugs say, “Look here what criminals can do to you if we are not protecting you.” Then the thugs break the place up. The store owner pays up.

Same with all the police departments, not just in America, but the whole world. If there is an exception it is a very rare one. I have heard police detectives (and other officers) with my own ears say, “Go get so and so and turn him loose.” Or “Get into this or that gang and let ‘em know we don’t intend to be too tough on ‘em.”  And, I have witnessed undercover police agents overtly fomenting criminal movements in gangs.

I have also noted the overall societal trends that underlay the various magnitudes of “police drives” to herd the sheep back into a “love thy policeman” mode.

And so folks, YOU, not the Jew, are the victim, and that of all these vicious agendas.

As I have noted earlier on this forum, like unto the Founders of this country, I hold that govt is a necessary evil, a ravening beast that is either kept on a very tight leash, or the people perish. There is no choice in the matter, no compromise, no live and let live. No “you do your thing and let me do mine.” It is strictly a do or die thing, always has been, always will: leash the beast or die. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

911 is only a very tiny fragment of what it means to let the beast slip its leash. As large as it seemed at the time, World War II was only a fragment of what it means. Yo’ ain’t seen nuthin’ yet.

#104990 by Peter RV

•  (The plane that run into Pentagon was commanded from the plane which was circling above-whose existance first denied)

Hi Peter and all. I only have a couple of comments for the moment, just because I’m slightly pressed for time, but I’ll be back later.

I’m with you on a lot of this, but have a look at these other foundational considerations…

The Pentagon incident however- I remember the plane that witness reported, (which was denied by officials) and that plane may very well have been situated to do the same thing. (control the others remotely)
The “after-photos” of the damage done at the Pentagon, (at least the ones I’ve been able to find) do not show any evidence of a commercial 757 even BEING there. The damage to the building could not have been created by that airplane. Now, if there are photos or eyewitnesses that could tell us that they saw that airplane actually hit the Pentagon, I might believe it, if there were enough of them, and they were independent sources.

HOWEVER, even that would not explain the very obvious ABSENSE of any sign of wreckage. So, while we can (because we have to) “assume” that the airplanes at the WTC were consumed in the inferno created, the Pentagon, (as well as flight 93) has left NO visible signs of wreckage. Even the independent news film footage from right after the Pentagon explosion, show absolutely NOTHING that would indicate that an aircraft of that size, with passengers, cargo, etc, had EVER been there.

Now, just as something to compare this to, (an actual aircraft disaster and the aftermath, etc) take a look, when you have time…because it will probably involve some searching) the crash of Delta Flight 191 (I think that’s the number, because I remember thinking at the time, that AA had also lost a flight 191 in Chicago, back in ’78 or ’79) Delta’s flt 191 went down on approach at DFW, and it was in the mid 80’s, maybe ’85 or ’86) It was eventually determined to be the result of weather – (which is the primary reason for the majority of these sorts of disaster). In this case, a ‘microburst’ or another technical term that escapes me at the moment). But, it’s not that important for this exercise. I’m only suggesting an examination of that disaster, so that you can get an idea of how real air catastrophe’s are handled and examined, and what HAS to always be left behind. So, that particular one is a good example, because there is a great deal of news coverage from it, that should still be accessible. (if it isn’t, then that’s something to consider as well, because there was DEFINITELY tons of coverage at the time.) And, I can provide eye-witness testimony of my own, for that particular incident, if only to say that the news coverage and the final determination by the NTSB was probably correct. (the microburst)

With the flight that allegedly crashed into the Pentagon, there is NOTHING!!! What they do “show us” in photos or news film, shows NO SIGN of a 757 at that site. Where did it go? Where did the people go? Is there even a wing light or a food cart anywhere in the wreckage? NO. there IS no “wreckage”.

Same thing with UA flt 93 in Shanksville, PA. I did read –somewhere- that at some point years later, there was an “admission” that UA93 had been shot down. I haven’t had a chance to track that for further confirmation, but I did read it somewhere. STILL, if it were shot down, or if it just crashed after passengers supposedly tried to take it over, WHY is there –again- NO wreckage. (Official story is that the wreckage was scattered for a mile or better). Maybe. (I don’t believe it would cover such a wide area, but…it COULD. It is ‘possible’) But, here again, whether it was scattered over a mile or two, or in a more reasonably sized area, there WOULD STILL BE WRECKAGE, immediately identifiable wreckage IF it was a normal plane crash.
TBC…

#104990 by Peter RV

Good question, Peter. I had written my last post before I saw yours. You are quite likely onto something here. #93 was the only “missile” that didn’t reach a target.

A lot is open to speculation here, and so I am afraid I don’t have much to offer for you.

But you are quite likely right. All the “secrets” of the other elements of the treasonous coup d’etat could be spelled out right there if one only could break the code.

As for speculation, I firmly believe that one of two things happened to most of the passengers that were on the flight manifests. Either: 1) they were lined up against walls and mowed down, then buried in a hole somewhere and covered up, which seems unlikely to me, but it still could be so; 2) they were/are the very first prisoners in Halliburton’s concentration camps that sprung up all over the country waiting for the right moment (post martial law declaration) to gaffle up folks such as “truth seekers.”

SOMETHING happened to all those airline passengers, and since there was a dearth of bodies at any of the crash sites, it doesn’t leave a whole host of possibilities, does it?

My speculation about Halliburton internment (as opposed to up-against-the-wall-shot) is not without a tiny bit of logic. Note that virtually all the families of the WTC victims have been screaming bloody murder and LIAR! LIAR! LIAR! at the govt from the very start.

However, I don’t know of a single family member of those on the flight manifests (airplane passengers) that have made even a peep. Not a peep!

This kind of cooperation could only be explained by all of these people having been told to cooperate or their loved ones would die gruesome deaths in the concentration camps where they are now interred. Why are the families of the airplane passenger victims so altogether uncharacteristically fearful of breathing too loudly? To the last person they ALL cling to the govt fairytale like a zygote clings to the endometrium of a woman’s uterus. Why do they do this?

I have seen too much of this kind of thing in my life not to be suspicious that one group would be screaming bloody murder, but the other stands meekly silent with heads bowed in silence and virtual isolation from the public. 

Don’t believe it couldn’t be so. Don’t think, “Why, MY government would not do such a thing as kidnap innocent citizens like this and threaten the families into silence. This is the 21st Century!” We are talking about desperate criminal seditionists that committed 911 and may have locked up and threatened not just a few airplane passengers, but murdered upward of 3,000 living souls in cold blood(American citizens) on the ground in NYC.

And so, why the big disparity between the agressive behavior of the families of WTC victims and the meek and mild almost non-behavior of the families of the airplane passengers? Like your question about #93, this one should plague truth seekers for an answer.

CYRENA, another thing one has to being affected by those horrendous WWII photos showing emaciated folks being executed, stacks of corpses bulldozed into ditches, etc. Practically all of these are claimed by Zionists to be photos of the “Jewish holocaust.”  However, during WWII there were roughly between 50-60 million people killed, most of them civilians. These could not all have been Jews, yet most of the photos one sees of that horrible carnage in WWII are claimed to be Jews. Didn’t anybody take any photos of anybody else getting murdered that way? I know 50-60 million Jews did not die in WWII.  But virtually all horror photos of that war are claimed to be Jewish, or at least all the worst ones are.

There is no way of knowing except taking the words of Zionists and their Choir regarding the photos. 

The main things that bother me about believing anything Zionist Jews produce are two: 1) I am aware that these people will do anything under the sun, without limitation, to further their agenda of world domination; 2) the motto of the Mossad that famously says: We shall wage war by deception.

“War by deception” creates a powerful image in my mind. It’s like saying, “I will lie to you when I choose. Now I want you to believe everything I say.”

But by far the most convincing of all is every Zionist Jew I have ever come across, such as the Zionist Poot/MS, reveal dissimulative streaks a mile wide. It takes no psychiatric knowledge at all to see how totally agenda-driven they are. Talk about fearing somebody, I would fear taking directions from any of these people about crossing the street.

When one discovers any person, agency or organization to be totally, mindlessly
agenda-driven, one needs to believe anything they say ONLY AT GREAT RISK.

We all learned ouR “wise fables” in grade school, didn’t we? One of those “fables” was about the boy that cried wolf too many times. Everybody quit believing him, didn’t they? Well, here we have Zionist Jews that have been caught in more outright, barefaced pure damned lies than any single ethnic group in the history of the world. How in the hell could anybody but a zip-damn fool believe them, then, even if they say it is raining? (I knew “zip-damn” from long ago and even where it was coined—it comes out of the miasma of the California prison system, probably San Quentin.)

And so, I can’t even believe those horrid photos I see that depict (supposedly) Jews “buying the farm” in such a terrible manner, because I don’t know which are Jews and which are other ethnic groups that bought the same thing during WWII.

These lying Zionist bastards have ruined themselves for me. I do know individual Jews that I like and believe, couldn’t be better friends, but I will be damned if I will ever buy another institutional Zionist Jewish sob story even if he says he stubbed his toe. I’ll wonder: “Is he trying to set me up to holocaust me and my dog?”

For all I know and can trust, Zionist Jews THEMSELVES did the work they claim others did in Hitler’s Germany while dressed as German soldiers.  Hell, observe how they dress as Arabs and slaughter the innocent, such as at 911.  Look at the Palestinian holocaust. They even dress up on occasion as Palestinian Arabs to murder some of them. Look at the “Liberty ship” holocaust and the damned lies they told about that. Witness ALL the holocausts Zionist Jews are doing/have done in plain view of the world!

How then, may one know the photos of “death camps” in the “Jewish holocaust” were not Jewish Zionists doing THAT work?  One literally cannot know except as a matter of the strongest “faith” in the words of folks proven to be the biggest damned liars in the history of the world.

I rest my case.

#104693 Pooty

Pooty the Zionist Jew wrote: “In The War, Ken Burns had a good ole’ boy on—I think from Alabama but it was the deep South.”

Pooty is illustrating here that “even a good ole’ boy” agrees with us.

Pooty’s use of “good ole’ boy” here is as racialist and derogatory toward whites in its own way as “nigger” or “Jew boy” is to blacks and the “gods” (Zionist Jews.) But standing here with his butt hanging out, Pooty doesn’t have a clue what he did.

In Pooty’s “mind,” shouldn’t this by like my calling him “Mr. Jew?” Nah, as Mr. Jew sets all the rules and it’s always okay for him/her/it to show such prejudice.

Could we not expect any better from a Zionist Jew that has “never uttered a racially or ethnically derogatory word even in the confines of his car with windows rolled up?” (Pooty’s own words in quotes.)

Comment #104723 by Peter RV on 10/4

THE HIDDEN ANTHRAX LETTERS SUSPECT

“The FBI knows of a man who was caught entering the lab where the Anthrax used in the letters was kept, after he had been fired for a racially motivated attack on a co-worker. So, why is the FBI wasting its time with Steven Hatfill?
News Story identifying Dr. Philip Zack as the man caught entering the Anthrax storage area at Fort Detrick without authorization.

In this story, it is reported that Dr. Zack was caught on a security tape making an unauthorized entry into the Anthrax storage area.

Foreign press picks up story that Anthrax letters were sent by American bio-war scientist ... and that the FBI is dragging its feet on the case.

FBI’S PRIME SUSPECT ON ANTHRAX LETTERS IS JEWISH! No wonder they were dragging their feet.

Salon’s story of the attempt to frame Dr. Ayaad Assaad, an Egyptian, for the Anthrax letters
Already the hate email is pouring in insisting that coverage of this story is “anti-Semitic”. Clearly, a certain nation is terrified of this story getting wide coverage.

The time has come to face the unpleasant fact the citizens of the United States may well be the victims of the most incredible hoax in history regarding who is really behind the attacks on the World Trade Towers, the mailing of Anthrax letters to political and media leaders, and even to doubts that Daniel Pearl’s killers are actually who we have been told they are.

The fact is that evidence presented to the public as to who was behind 9-11 is largely faked while evidence that links the Israeli Spy/Phone Tapping Ring to the attacks has been classified by the US Government itself, as reported in Carl Cameron’s four part story on the spy ring on Fox News (subsequently erased from the mainstream media’s web sites).

“reports that Israel was conducting spying activities in the United States may have a grain of truth Note the of second paragraph from the bottom of this story in which a US official admits that even if the Israelis were running a spy ring in the United States, the information would be kept from the American people.

The time has come to seriously consider that the American people are being tricked into a war. Such things are hardly new. Recently declassified documents prove beyond al doubt that Pearl Harbor was not only NOT a surprise, but was the desired result of an 8 step ONI plan written by Arthur H. McCollum and implemented by Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in order to trick the people of the United States into a war against Hitler, via the back door of Japan. And according to Victor Ostrovsky, a former Mossad agent, the bombing of Libya during the Reagan administration was the result of a trick played by the Mossad in which a radio transmitter was smuggled into Tripoli and used to create fake radio messages for the US to intercept. The motto of the Mossad is, “By way of deception, thou shalt do war”.

The Israeli government has a history of tricking the United States into attacking their enemies for them. A classic example is the Lavon Affair.”

click on link for the rest of the details:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/anthraxsuspect.html

#104718 Pooter

Pooter, you need to read some of those 4-1 posts I write. I told you: I am retired. I don’t work any longer except on my many talents that I enjoy. I work only for myself now just to have a good time.  And loving it when I tweak fanatics like yourself from time to time. I like your pain.

I have laughed at you and enjoyed your insanity quite a bit. People that are totally over the edge I feel sorry for and don’t poke them through the bars of their cage. But your ilk (the insane criminal variety) are different. You are insane enough to be a totally vengeful, hateful, vindictive bastard son of satan, but sane enough to like it and eat it like candy.

You don’t know me from Adam, yet you know that I know nothing, right? You know that I have no talents, right? How do you know such things? Does “god” tell you? If so, then your god must be a liar, like you are, which does not bode well for you. My God does not lie to me.

When you drop off this list I’ll miss you, as I like tweaking insane bastards like you just to hear them howl. Does this make me cruel? Maybe. But I’ll never be able to approximate your institutional cruelty no matter what I do.

***********

Well, of course, CYRENA, Pootin’ Pooter is only practicing for when his Zionist Jewish “Valhalla” arrives and he can order his 2,800 Gentile slaves around like cattle. Even slaughter them like pigs. Antebellum South was never so good. He is only practicing being the evil Massa’ when he tells all of us exactly when we must stop responding to this forum. He only wants to be accustomed to playing god when the real shit comes down, if it comes down.  And it may and probably will not, as we must recall the time-worn axiom: “The best laid plans of mice and pooters often go awry.” Who can say the Zionist Jewish pooters plans won’t go awry? If they make it, I’ll still be doing what I’m doing, having a great time and loving life ecstatically. They will have to step around me.

One thing you got right for sure: Gentiles are God’s Chosen. Too bad the Talmudists couldn’t tolerate the offer (but good for the Gentile “seconds,” of
course—many thanks to Pooter ilk and Co.)

#104718 by Inherit The Wind on 10/04 at 1:55 pm

•  Cocktail-weiner-man…
Better get every dig in while you can…this thread is now at the bottom of page 3 and when it goes to page 4 I won’t bother checking it—neither will anyone else.

ITZW, I guess this is for FtF, eh? (how did you figure out he was a “cocktail-weiner-man? He didn’t mention that part in his resume) Nevermind, that’s not important. I’m more interested in how YOU know, that nobody else will check this thread when it gets to page 4? Does it mean, that when YOU decide to stop checking it, that means TD will shut it down? I don’t like the sounds of that ITZW, unless of course YOU are TD, which means that you could shut any of these threads down, whenever you want.

If you are NOT in that position, (to control what the site makes available) then probably you shouldn’t be making these bold claims for the rest of us…”neither will anyone else”. Just a thought.
#104723 by Peter RV
•  #104570 by Robert
Thanks for the link. It just re-inforces my suspicion that none of these Arabs had anything to do with 911. I am studying it. It is almost unbelievable that even I, born skeptic, now feel a fool for giving our Government such a benefit of the doubt.

Robert, I ditto Peter RV. He has “spoken” for me. I feel like a zip-damn FOOL!! HOWEVER…I’d like to say, that makes us smarter than we look. At least we have enough sense to KNOW that we’ve been tricked. Therein lies the lesson.

ONWARD TRUTH-SEEKERS, we are the “chosen people”.

#104727 by Franker than Frank
FTF,
You know you aren’t gonna get any answers from this post. BUT, I’m going to save these questions, and pose them to others who are familiar with this particular book. (The Talmud – right?) I never read it. Don’t plan to now either. Should I make sure that none of my Jewish professors are these kinda Talmud Jews? Several of them wear a traditional head covering, (I’ve forgotten the name, too lazy to look it up). But, they seem decent enough to me. Still, ya just never know these days, and I do NOT wanna wind up burning in hot semen and excrement for eternity.

Pooti (ITZP), since you are such a nice victim guy, not at all prejudiced against another soul, and know your Jewish history so well, would you mind answering a few questions for me:

Are you a “Talmudic” Jew?

Whether yes, no, or maybe, would you mind telling this forum and me: 1) by what right a “Talmudic” Jew may expect to rule over 2,800 Gentile slaves when the “fullness of Jewish power” is established? 2) Why are “Talmudic” Jews so angry at Jesus as to relegate him to an eternity of burning in hot semen and excrement? 3) Has anybody recently (like in the past ten years or so) done anything as horrible to your ethnic group as Jesus did? 4) Where would the likes of I be relegated in Talmudic reasoning? Since I would refuse to bow down to you as one of your 2,800 Gentile slaves, would I be relegated to an eternity of burning in hot semen and excrement as Jesus is?

I know you won’t answer a single one of these questions, as you have not yet answered my easiest one: “Does Israel practice apartheid against the Palestinians?”

If you are such a nice, harmless guy, and all your ethnic kin are exactly the same, how do you explain the extreme vicious hatred (of which I have shown only two accounts) expressed in your most holy book?

I could not begin to imagine visiting such awful consequences on anybody I have ever known. If I am so hate filled in your estimation, then how are you able to do such a thing and I am not?  Could you answer this one? Probably not I am sure.

Re: #104693 The Poot

Pootie Poot, HA, HA, HA. (This is another horse laugh.) Are you trying to say the Zionist Jews had nothing to do with the murder of Jesus?

Simply because I speak the truth about you, as Jesus did, does not mean I hate your ethnic group. Neither did it mean Jesus hated your ethnic group. In your twisted little cranial config it means it, but not anywhere else. What happened with your strident claims that I hate all blacks? Are you still entertaining that one?

Try to remember, you are a “victim” with a “victim’s” mentality. Naturally, anybody that does not agree with your every word or points out any bad things your bunch has done, you will conclude that they hate you. This is because you are filled with hate yourself and you therefore look at the world through those tainted lenses, from the inside out. But can’t you even imagine for a moment that somebody may only have a love of The Truth which has little to nothing to do with you and your bunch? Nah, impossible.

To all: sorry about that “double hit” above, but I had little to do with it.

NOW TO CYRENA: as for one of the precursors to 911, the Branch Davidian Massacre, the leader of the thing was walking around claiming he was Jesus Christ returned. Apparently, a large number of other people thought the claim was credible enough to exclaim, “It’s Him!” They deeply believed he was Jesus. 

An aside: This “Jesus returned” claim would have knocked poor Pootie Pootie to his knees, MS, too, as, if the boy (girl?) can’t stand hearing me say I am a,... what?... all the things I am?, can you imagine if I said, “I am Jesus Christ?”  He (she?) would really, really send the Zionist Jewish goon squad after me and turn every rock on earth till I was located and burned at the stake (and boiled in excrement.)

Back to Waco: the Jesus guy, Koresh (an alias), also had a stockpile of semi-auto military grade rifles, legal of course. This was back when the militia movement was just beginning to rear its “ugly head” in America. And so the gubs had two reasons to attack Koresh and his disciples: (1 the man believed he was Jesus; 2) he had a stockpile of rifles.

Koresh resembled a “militia” in the making, one of those awful things the U.S. Constitution mandates as being perfectly legal and lawful.

However, claiming one is Jesus credibly enough to get a following of more than 25 people is strictly verboten. This is because the president believes his position confers “Jesushood” upon him/her and he/she will not tolerate any credible competition. Janet Reno, the lesbian, was the perfect AG to squash Koresh’s “Jesus” competition and scare America at the same time. (Lesbians evidently don’t like Jesus, either.)

Thus, the Branch Davidians had to be massacred; men, women, children, babies. One of the tanks that did the final grisly deed was flying the rebel flag, not the stars and stripes. 

I will never forget the images in the immortal footage that was taken as one of the “John Wayne” BATF agents charged the Davidian parapets, news cameras rolling (news media having been alerted in plenty of time to set up cameras to show BATF courage in attacking a religious compound), fully expecting a cakewalk, when the agent met a hail of hot lead instead.

The surprise on “John Wayne’s” face was palpable. All he could do was die. He was not John Wayne after all. He will never attack another religious compound. The BATF will never pay his wages again.

What else could anybody expect? If I launched an armed attack against a bunch of armed people that very strongly believed their leader was The Messiah, I would be prepared to be dispatched, too, wouldn’t you? The BATF was totally surprised.

CYRENA, one thing that sticks out for me re OKC is the black policeman that showed up Johnny-on-the-spot and did such a great job of caring for people. He worked that scene like a madman saving people and helping them to safety. He even discovered some of the unexploded bombs that were in the BATF part of the building. Oh, hasn’t anybody mentioned that? Do some searches and learn. There were unexploded bombs in the Murrah Building.

The black policeman that had so much concern for the injured and dead worked that massacre until he knew many of the deepest, darkest secrets of what actually happened. He didn’t like the way the BATF and FBI agents behaved.

Said policeman almost immediately began to scream bloody murder. He threatened to go public. He was found tortured to death shortly thereafter.

The Coroner ruled it suicide. The policeman had somehow managed to torture himself to death while he was sitting behind the wheel of his patrol car. He was butchered so badly that, if I recall right, he was even slashed on his feet. Everybody that knew him said it would be impossible for this particular man to do such a thing to himself. That he had absolutely no reason and nothing in his life that pointed to his being as “despondent” as the hastily scrawled note described, which the govt claimed he left.  If I recall right, some that knew him also said that he loved life, but at the very least everybody that knew him reported that he would not have committed suicide. The fact that he had been threatening to expose govt lies surrounding the OKC bombing quietly disappeared with his murder.  Yes, not suicide, but I say murder.

104660 CYRENA

One thing that sticks in my mind re OKC is the black policeman that showed up Johnny-on-the-spot and did such a great job of caring for people and saving them. He worked that scene like a madman saving people and helping them to safety. He even discovered some of the unexploded bombs that were in the BATF part of the building. Oh, hasn’t anybody mentioned that? Do some searches and learn. There were unexploded bombs in the Murrah Building.

Said black policeman that had so much concern for the injured and dead worked that massacre until he knew many of the deepest, darkest secrets of what actually happened and he didn’t like the way he saw BATF and FBI agents behaving.

The black policeman almost immediately began to scream bloody murder. He threatened to go public. He was found tortured to death shortly thereafter.

The Coroner ruled it suicide. The policeman had somehow managed to torture himself to death while he was sitting in his patrol car behind the wheel. He was butchered so badly that, if I recall right, he was even slashed on his feet.

Everybody that knew the policeman told that it would be impossible for this particular man to do such a thing to himself. That he had absolutely no reason and nothing in his life that pointed to his being as “despondent” as the hastily scrawled note described, which the govt claimed he left. The man had everything to live for. If I recall right, some that knew him also said that he loved life, but at the very least everybody that knew him reported that he would not have committed suicide. The fact that he had been threatening to expose govt lies surrounding the OKC bombing quietly disappeared with his murder.  Yes, not suicide, but I say murder.

104660 CYRENA

CYRENA WROTE: “Such as it seems to be with the feds staging demolitions of large public buildings to hide evidence of crimes, and create pretexts for mass fear, and a way to oppress an entire population, by creating laws as a result of the created fear.”

What a “nutshell!” Cyrena. This sums it all up in just a few words.

Back in the 60’s I Awoke to this phenomenon. And I knew the “Big Move” would be made soon, I just didn’t know how soon. But I watched as all the elements lined up, already claiming battlefield positions and moving on them. At that time I had no idea how Zionist Jews played into it or even if they did. I still thought Jews were simply confused religionists that thought they remained “the chosen” even though they had so deeply rejected Jesus, their Savior, and had enticed Rome to murder him in a most gruesome way just for telling them the truth. Then they capped it: “His blood be on us and our children!” Was that a prophetic statement, or what? His blood is still on them and it will never “go away.”

I’m glad my Gentile family (upon whom Jesus placed the mantle of “The Chosen” after the Jews totally rejected it) did not slaughter Jesus.

**********

Hey Pootie Pooter: I love your “logic.” But somehow the “sense” of it escapes me. Could it be that IQ of mine that is even higher than the legendary average IQ of the Jew? I’ll bet. You should have seen a mechanical aptitude score I got one time. It was a whopping 97 percentile, which means that I am in the highest three percent of folks that have taken the test. “OMIGOD! LIAR! LIAR! EVEN IF IT IS SO, SURELY YOU ACCIDENTALLY ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS RIGHT!”

Guess what happened just a while ago? A neighbor broke the A-frame on his P/U. He brought it to me and asked if I could fix it. I took the part to my small welding shop (on my premises here) and welded it back together for him, even stronger than it was to begin with. “OMIGOD! Now the insane man claims to be a competent welder! OMIGOD! OMIGOD!” Yes, isn’t it disgusting! I am a certified welder.

But I am also a certified diver. One time I needed an expensive part ($450) for a regulator on my two-stage compressor. I went to my junk box and found a piece of stainless steel, then went to my lathe and made a part ten times better than I could buy. If Anthropologists were to find it ten thousand years from now, it would still be functional. It only cost me my time and the amount of electricity my lathe used. The whole piece may have cost as much as a quarter.

(“OMIGOD! You don’t believe in free enterprise. What about the poor Chinese corporation that wanted your $450? OMIGOD!”)

Wouldn’t you give both testacles, though, Pootie Poot, (if you have any, that is) to be so capable, so competent in so many diverse areas, and independent? I could even make my own clothing if I desired. Make my own furniture and upholster it. Oh yes, I am a seamster, have my own industrial machines to work with. (“OMIGOD! LIAR! LIAR!”)

But what do you know how to do? Well, you can point to yourself and cry, “VICTIM! VICTIM! VICTIM!”

Damn, man, it isn’t much.

Maybe I should be the one taking over the world. Will you send me a Caucasian Gentile world conqueror application form? For my name, just write in Alexander the Great.

#104615 by Franker than Frank on 10/04 at 7:30 am

CYRENA, no, OKC kicked off on or about the first anniversary of Waco. Waco was first.

FTF,
Thanks, I realized this after I read the URL that you sent. That it was Waco first. I was still in Texas then too. Not a good time for living in that area. At least not for me. Then again, I guess it’s all relative. It might be fair to say, that just wasn’t a good area for me PERIOD, EVER. I learned a lot though.

So, having read it, we see now, that OKC was a BLUPRINT for WTC and the Pentagon. Yep. Almost like the flight plans I used to create. Ya use basically the same “plan” or route for each routing, adjusting accordingly for the winds and weather at the time. (and the particular route of course) But, all of the same basic ingrediants go into each one.

Such as it seems to be with the feds staging demolitions of large public buildings to hide evidence of crimes, and create pretexts for mass fear, and a way to oppress an entire population, by creating laws as a result of the created fear.

Identical formula. Now ya know, this was also a lesson into how easily folks are duped. Because, until you brought this to our attention, I PERSONALLY had never had any reason to question the official story on OKC. I wasn’t there. None of us actually witnessed the explosion ourselves, and I didn’t have time then, to spend any energy looking at these details, and wouldn’t have known what I was looking at anyway.

The only reason I knew that 9-11 was a fake, was because in THAT operation, I did have some knowledge, and so I knew that those airplanes didn’t do the damage. And, the more they tried to fit the facts to the story they’d created, the bigger the lies became.

But, I said that to say that I understand now, how the masses could easily be fooled. That’s what happened when Colin Powell tried to sell the WMD story at the UN. They mostly believed him, because they didn’t know any better.

More later.

Re: 104507

Hey, Zionist Poot, a PhD in early child development lives on the 80 behind me that calls himself and signs his name, “Dr. Jim” or “Dr. J.”

Pursuant to your order and decree regarding the PhD, (that no real PhD EVER calls himself a doctor) should I rush over there and demand that he jettison the “Dr?” After all, it’s a pretty serious Jewish violation, isn’t it? (You are pulling your Jewish rank on me, aren’t you?)

Let’s see now, you did rule that only MD’s could call themselves “doctors,” right? If you and your Zionist buddies had already taken over the world to rule as gods, would you just walk up to goyim “Dr.” Jim and summarily knock him in the head with a claw hammer, or would you give him the opportunity to erase the forbidden name?

Who was that revered guy you folks love so much that decreed, “if one who is not a Jew names a holiday [holy day] after himself, he will be put to death.” Somebody like “Maimonides,” wasn’t it?

Are you like Maimonides? Would you put me to death for anonymously calling myself a “doctor?” This is pretty close to naming a religious holiday after myself, isn’t it? 

But and all, since I am anonymous, how would you find me to kill me for naming a religious holiday after myself (i.e., calling myself “doctor?”)

Ah, a light just came on in my head: you would have the thought police locate me, right? You would scour the whole world to find me, leaving no stone unturned, as though I were a “Jesus resurrected,” right?

It would be a lot of work just for anonymously calling myself “doctor” and revealing a few of my other many and varied talents. Hey, another light just came on: you wouldn’t scour the earth to find me ONLY for having revealed myself as superior to you and your ilk, but because I AM superior, right? Forget what I am calling myself, it’s what I actually appear to BE that would cause you to move the whole earth and find me, right? 

Do I just know you folks, or what? Tsk, tsk, tsk. I will have to be one of the first to go, along with GB and family, right?