in reference to #97802 by Frank on 8/30 at 7:11 pm,
simply put, if this was the case about the “Tons of debrief” How come no clear footage from the most secure military structure on the earth. Do you really wish that we should believe that there is no clear footage, and even if so, it was years ago, how come they cant release it ... I know your probally even questioning that? If not well…...... I also live 20 minutes form the pentagon, i have seen the cameras all around there, pre-9/11.

you state that it’s improbable that the Bush admin carried out 9/11 because they’ve been so incompetent regarding the Iraq war, etc.  I think you’d been hoodwinked.  Incompetent?  Oil men in the White Office causing massive destabilization to the Mid-East, rising oil costs, and giving the Oil Companies the biggest profits ever attributed to any corporation - ever.  Either the administration has the best of luck, or they actually have smart people thinking all of this thru.  Dick Cheney said in 1994 that it would be a quagmire to invade Iraq proper.  Do you just think he forgot?  He’s not stupid.

9/11 has been used as a basic for reducing civil liberties, silencing opposition, giving justification for already planned wars, furthering conservative legislation, lining the pockets of the military-industrial complex, etc.  Wow, that’s some really good luck that came from some pretty bad luck.

Popular Mechanics says their were no firefighters in building Seven. Silverstein clarified his statement by saying he meant “Pull the firefighters” from building seven. Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.

I’m thinking the Bush did it theory has no merit. I’d be more inclined to believe he is being used and performing poorly. The Mossad seems the likely candidate, not cave dwelling people with box cutters. I’d also bet the government has already secretly reached this conclusion and doesn’t know how to handle the backlash that would result. People can’t often make the distinction between Jews and Zionists. No doubt most Jews are being used like the Ted Haggards of the world use Christians.

Webster G. Tarpley

Is his book “9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA” Fourth Edition (Paperback) worthwhile purchasing?

And is his video “9/11 Truth: Webster Tarpley Speaks in Seattle, April 1, 2006” worth the effort or is he making April fools of everyone?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-609179074068244932&q=webster+tarpley

Bush is not in charge so why do you think his idiotness would be the planning genius to have organized an inside job on 9-11. Sorry but the idea that he pulled it off is ludicrous if anything he’s a manchurian candidate puppet. The real puppet masters are Chenney and his masters in the MIC and fascist corporations who are profiting from the war in Iraq. Every intelligent person I know believes 9-11 was an inside job. Watch terror storm on google video and pay attention with an open mind.

Follow the money before and after 911. You will find that those who gained were poised to gain.

Those who gained and countine to gain from the 911 incident are most likely the ones involved in this very complex plot. For sure Iran, Iraq or Afganistan did not benefit… if so you, tell me how!

The problem for the 911 truth seeker is the political movements that are trying highjack the issue… Like the socialists… All 911 truth seekers must steer clear of such movements to maintain credibility.

The only 2 things that should matter to any member of the 9/11 Truth community-

1) The failure of the world’s most expensive national defense system and the lack of punishments/accountability in relation to that failure

2) The widely acknowledged ties between the CIA, Pakistan’s ISI, and Islamic extremists in Afghanistan (1980s) and beyond.

Factor these two together and no sceptic has an answer. These are the only issues that really matter.

WTC implosions, missing Pentagon planes and scattered debris fields, while intriguing, are unprovable and won’t get us anywhere. Some are probably red herrings.

Wake up, or the Truth movement dies in 2009.

One the biggest questions not asked often enough is who caused the us air force to stand down on 9-11? It’s standard policy is to intercept any commercial flight whose transponder is shut down or loses radio contact. And this doesn’t require any orders from anyone, its policy. 67 times in the previous 8 months they conducted standard intercepts in the US due to slight irregularities. Another major question goes unanswered is who bought all the put options on the airlines and insurance companies? This information is not being released by the SEC. Why and who?

filtering out comments is dishonest.

I do believe that if DogShit EVER faced a fact head-on that contradicted his weird, hateful tin-foil hate nonsense, his head would explode.

So he never does, pretending that the BS agit-prop of neo-nazi web sites is “evidence” and that the REAL evidence must be cooked.

What’s his latest? That the 19 Arabs on the planes are still alive? Go ahead: produce Mohammed Atta—and let’s do the DNA tests on him to prove it’s him.

But for people like DogShit, who have this whole imaginary universe in which the “Zionists”—code-word for Jews—are given magical powers by Satan to act against the best interests of Humanity and God, facts are meaningless.

See, DogShit is a self-proclaimed prophet, claiming God and Jesus talk to him and tell him what’s right and wrong (exactly like another lunatic flake, George W. Bush).  So DogShit doesn’t “need” facts.  He just makes ‘em up and says God told him they are true.

A rational society evaluates psycho-crazy people like DogShit and makes sure he can’t harm himself—or other people.

Unfortunately, the admin of that other tin-foil-hat lunatic, George W. Bush, is so big on secrecy I wonder why they haven’t classified the DC phone book (like Stalin classified the Moscow phone book).  Consequently, rather than open up the files on 9/11 and let air and sun in, they’ve allowed crack-pot ideas to flourish like algae and mold to the point that this thread shows just how quick people are to believe ANYTHING—but especially if it can be used to blame Jews and justify another holocaust.

Think not?  Just watch: DogShit keeps threatening that God will “melt Israel”.

This is a perfect example of how manipulation of public opinion works. The people that control society have been studying the control of perception and public opinion for over 70 years, and they have it down to a science. In short, all they have to do (statistically speaking) is to make sure that the ‘Official Story’ is more than 2 standard deviations away from the ‘True Story’, and they can be 99.9% sure that 99% of people will never come anywhere close to the truth of the 911-WTC attack and their perpetrators.

It doesn’t matter how much or how many times the Government lies to the people because they are too lazy, mentally incompetent, undereducated, miseducated, brainwashed, mind-controlled, conditioned, servile, conformist to ask the serious questions about this incident. How can any reasonably intelligent person seriously believe anything that comes out of DC? Did OBL or Saddam export all of the manufacturing out of the country, or did the US Govt? Did OBL or Saddam destroy the US Dollar, or did the US Govt? Did OBL or Saddam stand down the entire NORAD and US Air Force or did the US Govt do it? Did OBL or Saddam destroy the US Constitution or did the US Govt do it?

The bottom line is that the majority of Americans are unwilling to face the truth about the evil of the US Govt, and this makes them all complicit in these treasonous activities performed by these govt. agents. But the real deal is that the AMERICAN PEOPLE will suffer the punishment, not the perpetrators of these, and other high crimes and misdemeanors. So when they’re instituting martial law with all the checkpoints and the concentration camps, don’t start complaining about it. Oh yeah. I forgot that I’m a wacko ‘conspiracy theorist’ because I ask questions that aren’t EVER mentioned in the ‘mainstream media’. And everybody knows that once you label somebody a ‘conspiracy theorist’, you don’t have to address ANY of their questions because if they are labelled a ‘conspiracy theorist’, that automatically invalidates and makes false EVERYTHING they’ve ever said or thought in life.  Now that’s intelligence in action…  (NOT)

Ok, let’s forget that there were people waiving out of those plane-holes that were so hot they melted the whole building. (I think the proper thing to say would be no high-rise EVER fell from fire or plane but 3 did, that day, including WTC 7 which BBC just happened to annnounce it’s collapse 20 min before it happened…THAT’S just a coincidence)Forget the footage of firefighters describing a SERIES of SEQUENTIAL EXPLOSIONS.
How about….WHERE was NORAD, whose sole purpose is to intercept planes. 60 some planes were intercepted, within 15 MINUTES for flying over Crawford, here in Texas, last year. Cheney was conducting 4 live “highjacking” drills, ina bunker, that day. It’s not my opinion, it’s proven fact…..a..ummm…yeah, that’s the ticket! Arabs, with BOXcutters! Coincidence. BUT, SOMEHOW, Norad COULDN’T DO ANYTHING FOR AN hour and a half, EVEN THOUGH everyone knew planes had been highjacked and that we were “under attack”.
Let’s not talk about the PUT OPTIONS, from someone, betting that AMERICAN and UNITED airlines stock would fall. “Someone” bought MILLIONS of $$$ worth of stock options in the days before 911. We’re told thye were bought anonymously…ANONYMOUSLY???? WHAT???
Go buy a cupla millions dolars worth of stock options and tell me how that works for you.
Doesn’t the Pentagon, actually have missle defense weapons? Why didn’t they shoot down the “airplane”, that can’t seem to be in any pictures, from the most camera heavy building in the country. Why not show us the film? At least, the plane was cordial enough to fly all the way around the building and hit and empty wing, under construction, when they could have coasted right in the through front door.
Anyhow, just food for thought.
Nero burned Rome and blamed the Christians, Hitler burned the Reichstag and blamed his enemies, Gulf of Tonkin…ummmm… do I see a pattern, here?
Regardless it allowed them to scare the bejeezus out of everyone long enough for them to lie us into this disasterous war, bourne of evil.
Incompetant?? No, just incompetent enough to get cought for this most treasonous act in history. And the media helped.

God Bless America. Please save my country.

Robert-

It has been 2179 days since 9/11.  The “ravers’ you speak of “rave” at you because they came to the conclusion you now appear to inching toward more than 2000 days ago themselves and are beyond frustrated that the very “news” organizations, reporters and self-purported deep thinkers maintain willful ignorance on this subject and worse: silence.  The “coverage” of 9/11 has been so lame, so superficial, so lacking in any sort of critical analysis either technical or otherwise and so accepting of the preposterous official report, that it seems to many to be conspiratorial.  I personally do not believe that this is conspiracy.  Rather I believe that modern journalism so values “access” that critical thought and disagreement of those “covered” has all but vanished.  The “ravers” are doing what you should have been doing - drawing attention to the truth.  The “ravers” do not have the access, time, and in most cases the writing ability you possess.  Each of them is a call both for the truth and a plea for you to do what they cannot.  Please forgive them their frustration…but look past their appearance to their message.  What if it’s true?

Even though you are several years too late to be leading any original thought on this, on behalf of all of us who want the truth on this subject into the light, I say “welcome aboard and Godspeed”.

You are to late to lead the movement toward truth, but maybe your contribution can be that you were one of the first that broke the dike of ignorance and self deception in the mainstream news.

Ask yourself THIS question; now years later, and following the revealing of the bitter partisanship, manipulative character, and outright duplicity of this administration, whether the anthrax that was sent to Tom Daschel, which was traced as originating in a US government lab, was merely an isolated incident of terrorist activity targeting a high level public servant, or whether it was another PR stunt to promote their war on terror (and while at send a strong message to the highest ranking Democrat)? 

The truth is, even if it is plain as day to me and many others, 9/11’s true story will NEVER be proven.  The damage it would do to this nation at home and around the world would be catastrophic.  I guess its better to just forget about it find out what Britney’s up to today.

I’m sorry, if you can’t see the obvious truth that 9/11 was an inside job, you’re just aren’t seeing the whole picture.  Just like everything else this administration has screwed up, they were sloppy and incompetent in carrying out the operation.  Lucky for them, the one thing they got right was counting on the overall gullibility of the American people.

This is huge.  Robert Fisk is one of the best journalists in the world.  He lends more credibility to seeking some explanation for legitimate inquiry with this one article than five years worth of Alex Jones.

Bravo Mr Robert

#97729 by M. Kimble on 8/30 at 1:43 pm, you claim the steel would be weakened, but the ACTUAL studies of the building materials PASSed a six hour test of 2,000 degrees F with 100% of it’s rated strength capacity intact.

Go lie somewhere else bud.

I still don’t know what to make of Mr. Fisk. In this article, as usual with him, he plays it rather fast and loose with (recent) history: Vietnam “rescued” Cambodia? Let’s ask some tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Cambodians about that. Oh wait, we can’t - they’re dead now, slaughtered by their Vietnamese “rescuers”.
If Fisk has so many suspicions concerning the official 9/11 conspiracy theory, then why does he so abhor the whole concept of alternative conspiracy theories, such as those promulgated by David Icke and so many others? In other words, Fisk seems to be getting the very real - very logiocal and common-sense - feeling that the US government is not telling the truth about what went down on that day (on those days). So why would he then refuse to follow that train of thought to its logical conclusion - that the US government, most likely in concert with a handful of foreign regimes (Israel, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia to name but a few of the most likely suspects) was in some way directly responsible for 9/11? What kind of journalist - investigator - negates the big picture questions of motive and opportunity, just scratches his head and says, “That doesn’t make sense”, and leaves it at that?
So I will just scratch my head and leave it at that. But then again, I’m not an “independent” investigative journalist.

Ya, I think Robert Fisk is doing himself a big disservice with his ridiculous comments, pandering to the neocons and ignoring the scientific evidence of the scholars for 911 like prof Jones
and Fetzer, Griffin and now Margulis. He should read up on the subject before spouting off like an idiot.

To you Fisk, try google, 911, jones, thermate. Just for starters.

Anyone who equates the word “zionism” with a form
of racisim, is just one of those who cannot think.
They don’t know history,but think they do.
  I don’t care what they call me. Abe foxman
is not my friend. They torture and murder palestinians
every day. Men, women, children.
The jew has by his/her beliefs,declared me an enemy,
and when I oppose thier actions which show this,
they scream “antsemite”. Opposing my enemies actions?
 
50 million dead christians in the ussr?
Tortue? Genocide? Look who’s doing/done it, and the truthfull answer makes YOU an “antisemite”.
SO BE IT> Self survival, or P correctness?
Idiots.

I appreciate that the author notes the presence of a lunatic fringe which needs to be avoided (his “ravers”) and I would agree that official reports have perhaps left some questions.  But a number of organizations have reported on this, not just the gov official 9/11 commission, and many of the “lingering questions” he cites (missing parts, burn temperatures and steel failures) have very simple and logical answers. Moreover, many of the “questions” are simply common misunderstandings of the facts. 

I’d reccomend the 9/11 myths and “Screw Loose Change” sites, not just for thier answers but for their links to authoritative sources.

Daniel Hopsicker has done a decent job of digging up info on Mohamed Atta.  Very colorful man, indeed.
http://www.madcowprod.com

It takes an article like this to bring all the anti-semitic tin-foil hats out from under their rocks.  They don’t care about facts and physics—they just want everyone to say “THE DIRTY JEWS DID IT!”

As the fascists like to say, if you say it often enough, it becomes “the Truth”—even when it’s not.

(Just read DogShit’s last 100 or so posts)

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

groan….not again.
Let me just say I am a Democrat and Bush hater. But please…for a journalist to publish this is just mind boggling.
Try this link too. http://www.theskepticsguide.org/skepticsguide/podcast-091405.html

Total inside job.  But only intellectuals get it…thus the low percentage of “truthers”.

Yeah, you need to look out for those “ravers” like Robert Baer, CIA case officer, Ray McGovern CIA analyst who delivered presidential daily briefings to Ronald Reagan,FBI directer Louis Freeh, several senators and representatives, governors, etc. why do they hate America?

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

9/11… ah yes…

First, there are many of us who aren’t buying the “official” story; that doesn’t mean we also believe aliens crashed at Roswell or JFK was assassinated by Martians.

I am a veteran of the first gulf war.  I am a bomb technician by specialty (military trained Explosive Ordnance Disposal Specialist).  I spent 6 years after the military in law enforcement.  I have been part of 4 Presidential VIP Protection missions working with the USSS Technical Services Division. 

There are just too many people, from too many professions, who have found “holes” in the official story. 
Was it total incompetence (Condi Rice stating, “who could have guessed”, only to recant that statement later in front of Congress)?  If that were the case, why did John Ashcroft stop flying commercial aircraft months prior to 9/11? 

Was it lack of leadership?  If that were the case, why did the United States Secret Service agents in the White House get Cheney to the secure basement, but, the USSS agents on the travel team with Bush DIDN’T hustle him out of the school? 

How did an airplane crash into the WTC tower in a fireball, the tower collapse, but on top of the rubble a passport of one of the hijackers was found pretty as you please?  Come on now… really.

To be clear here, these questions are not automatically claiming anything… they are legitimate questions concerning the worst terror attack on America that the “official” story just doesn’t cover.

The only question I pose that can be taken as “automatically claiming anything” is the collapse of the towers.  Towers 1 and 2 collapsed from the aircraft strikes.  Ok, implausible but I’ll buy it.  Tower 7?  No way that tower drops into its footprint because there were fires in the building (started by what again?) and some minor damage.  It isn’t happening.  Other buildings around the collapse suffered the same minor damage from the collapse of 1 and 2 and are still standing.  The ONLY explanation (that deals in reality) for WTC 7’s collapse was that it was brought down purposefully, ie, it was a controlled demolition.  As one poster already commented, it is on tape where the tower owner stated they “pulled” the building… and as that comment asks, rightfully, when DID the explosives get placed?

I can buy WTC 1 and 2 dropping from the aircraft strikes.  I can even buy that hijackers took over airplanes with box-cutters (its a stretch, but ok).  But buy that the USSS agents in Florida broke all protection protocol knowing that America was under attack, using hijacked aircraft as weapons?  No, I don’t buy that.  Buy that our government was unprepared for the attack when the Attorney General stopped flying commercial months before the attack?  No, I don’t buy that either.  Buy that a passport survives the disintegration of the aircraft, the fireball, AND the building collapse, and then, is sitting out on TOP of the rubble pretty as you please?  Nope, I do buy that either… it was planted.

The fact is, as long as the questions remain unanswered and the administration has zero interest in getting them answered, one cannot help but conclude there was a conspiracy.

I can do without a lot of the “wackier” theories and simply ask: “How can this happen?” Roughly half the taxes we pay go toward, we are told, “keeping us safe” in the form of the defense budget. We weren’t kept safe on 9/11. I want a refund.

How can the Pentagon, which should be one of the most defended buildings on the planet, get hit by ANYTHING almost an hour after the first attack and well after the second in New York? That’s the fishiest thing of all to me.

Oh dear, oh dear. Still believing the stuff the wackos put out, I see.

(1) The ‘airplane part’ which landed ‘miles away’ in Pennsyvania was a bank cheque.

(2) WTC 7 took about 15—18 seconds to collapse, from the seismograph record.

(3) WTC 1 took about 18 seconds to collapse, WTC 2 took about 15 seconds.

There are two inactive threads and one still active thread on the PhysOrgForum board on which several quite knowledgable people post regarding the physics, chemistry and engineering involved in the events at the World Trade Center.  Note, nothing about the politics, etc.  Just science based information.

If you would like to understand these events, try there…

I’m glad a “respected” journalist has put some of the more important questions forward. Your dispatches from Afghanistan were among the most compelling and informative.

The real problem here is the lunatic fringe has been given the task of answering these valid questions. As far as I can tell they are part of the conspiracy, whatever form it took. Kept everyone else from asking legitimate questions or coming forward with information.

Perhaps there’s a deeper reason why there has been no public demand for the whole truth. We don’t want to know. It would mean the powers that be have no credibility, are in fact criminals and that means anarchy. When I imagine the government being responsible for something as horrific as this I am more afraid than I am believing it was some angry terrorists. I understand Terrorism. It’s Treason i don’t get.

I don’t for a minute believe that the Bush Administration plotted to blow up those towers; however, I could be persuaded that they knew something big was about to happen and chose to let it play out in order to give themelves the rationale they were seeking to invade the oil fields of Iraq.

If people in the current administration were not so secretive and so obviously obfuscatory, if there were not so many other documented-on-video indicents of deceit, lying or “memory failure”, if there had not been other indications that life means nothing to this gang of crooks, I’d find the disputes regarding “9-11” (TM) incredible.  But I don’t.

“We’re an empire now - we create our own reality” - Karl Rove.  Very creepy.  Anyone remember the Fall of the Roman Empire?  The USA is headed that way, thanks to Rove, Cheney, Bush, et al.  Empires crash, remember that.

You have your head in the sand along with everyone else.  If you can’t see that we’ve been had by the “official” 9/11 story, I give up.

I can’t buy into the “inside job” theory for the twin towers, but I do find another aspect of this story very interesting. The story is about a group of Israeli art students arrested after the twin towers were hit.

According to police reports these Israeli students were reported by an alertcitizen who spotted young men standing on top of their vans applauding the destruction of the towers. This event and their eventual arrest was even reported by Carl Cameron of FOX NEWS but was shortly thereafter deleted from their website.

It seems these students, who sold art in places like the pentagon as a cover, were actually Israeli spies following the Saudis who took over the airplanes. They, the so-called art students, are thought to have known the attack was going to occur and wanted a grand view of the disaster. The thought of these Israeli men cheering as Americans jumped out of windows to their death is quite disturbing.

Read more about it at Antiwar.com. It’s in the left hand column labled Israeli Art Students. Now there is a story that needs to be investigated. If true it could shift American/Israeli relations and at least piss a lot of people off.

By the way, after several days of being questioned, the students were released and immediately fled the country, back to Israel.

The NIST’s FAQ about the WTC collapse is at:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
They deal with “conspiracy-like” questions about the collapse.

Atta’s letter is definitely weird, but then so was Atta. Juan Cole’s analysis is here: http://www.juancole.com/essays/qaeda.htm

I think we can stick to the null hypothesis here. The “right-wing conspiracy” against Iraq and civil liberties got going *after* 9/11, in plain sight.

Fisk asks
  “how on earth could it (i.e.the incompetent Bush Gang) bring off the international crimes against humanity in the U.S. on 11 September 2001”.
He then goes on to say that he continues to reject that hypothesis. Actually, I think I agree with him on that. However, he stops short too quickly from speculating who else might have done it. Someone far more competent than the clotsy CIA-FBI twins, someone much more secretive and with a ‘New Pearl Harbor’ on its agenda.
  Here is another “raver” for you, Mr. Fisk :
Why don’t you discuss the possibility Mossad did it?

United 93 was shot down. Burning debris was found 2 1/2 miles before the crash site. The 911 commission noted that the request to scramble interceptors happened 30 minutes before the crash at 10:05am. They then say that VP Cheney gave the order to shoot 93 down around 10:15am. So indeed, Cheney did give the order, although the fuzzing of the time frames persists in order to not have to deal with the awful fallout of having to shoot down one of our own airliners. Although the evidence is pretty explicit, the tale has been so purposely twisted and confused that people resort to saying “no one can ever really know”.  But when you look at it with plain eyes, its obvious.

So, right there is some truth, cloaked in a lie.

Part of the problem with reporting, IMO, is that reporters and those that read their stories, don’t bother to do the hard work of actually fact checking their information. Ask a Pysicist what happens to steel when it heats up. It loses half its strength at only 650 degrees. At that temperature, the supporting members of the towers are sufficiently weakened to cause structural collapse. Almost every single arguement proposed by “conspiricists” have been answered, in some way or the other, by those knowledgeable in the fields of demolition, physics, engineering and others to preclude this idea of some vast, complicated conspiracy by a president, who at the time of being notified of the attack, was sitting in a classroom reading “My Pet Goat” with no clue on what to do or how to react.

An excellenct summary of the 9/11 Conspiracy questions can be found in the Vol. 12 No. 4 issue of Skeptic magazine.

when you recall Bush’s curious remarks about conspiracy theories and his stubborn opposition to having a congressional inquiry at all; or the way the commission was set up- they didnt actually get to interview the witnesses but instead relied on accounts provided by the administration, the whole process begins to look like a cover up. Incompetence, malfeasance or something much worse is involved. Only three steel framed buildings in history collapsed from a fire, all three on the same day. How about the owner admitting on the air that they decided to “pull down” bldg seven due to fire damage. When did they plant the explosives?