Disturbing that there are still brainwashed people out there like “campaign signs” who still believe that Iraq and Iraqis had something to do with 9/11.

Jake, there is no such thing as a “war on terror.”  As General William Odom astutely noted, “Terror is a tactic.  It is not a target.  It would make as much sense to declare war on night attacks and expect to win that war.”

If 9/11 was truly the work of al Qaeda—and there are a number of serious studies that raise significant questions about possible neocon complicity—there can be little question that 9/11 entailed what the CIA and Chalmers Johnson call “blow back.”  In “Nemesis,” Johnson persuasively argues that the attack and the “why they hate us” is directly linked to U.S. hegemonic and militaristic imperialism.  “We now station over half a million U.S. troops, spies, contractors, dependents and others on more than 737 military bases…in more than 130 countries….The purpose…is ‘force protection’ or the maintenance of American military hegemony over the rest of the world.”

Johnson goes on to note, “Americans cannot truly appreciate the impact of our bases elsewhere because there are no foreign military bases within the United States.  We have no direct experience of such unwelcome features of our militasry encampments abroad as the networks of brothels around their gates, the mighty bar brawls, the sexually violent crimes against civilians….People who live near our bases must also put up with racial and religious insults that our culturally ignorant, high-handed troops often think is their right to dish out.”

Conducting a “war on terror” within such an environment only serves to increase the enmity of the rest of the world, creating new terrorists where a “legal” response to 9/11 under the aegis of the international courts would have gained respect.

Good point, Paolo.  In a sense one can place current events within a 500 year history of Anglo-European conquest, Middle Passage, and America’s sea-to-shining-sea genocidal campaign against Native Americans under the racist, imperialist doctrine of Manifest Destiny.  At the core of neoconservative ideology is an unstated belief in an unfettered Anglo-American, hegemonic right to dominate all other lands, resources and peoples, especially people of color.

Comment by “the pre”:

“It is enlightening to know how far back these atrocities of torture and oppression really go with the USA.”

You are right: they go “all the way back”, to before the creation of the USA. Allegedly “Christian” Europe used their “superiority” to overwhelm native cultures across the globe.

The mass extermination of Native American tribes, especially under the leadership of Civil War “Hero” [that is, moral monster] General Sherman, is truly sickening: he ordered the slaughter of women and children on the theory that “the only good Indian is a dead Indian.”

Though we may admire the ability of European colonialists to run successful businesses and wage successful wars, we also have to realize that they were, by and large, moral midgets.

To “the pre:”  You will find the fifty year history of the CIA torture paradigm documented at length by Professor Alfred McCoy in “A Question of Torture.”  The short version was set forth during Dr. McCoy’s Feb. 16, 2006 interview by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!

Here’s the link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/17/1552228

Comment by Paolo on 8 28 #97424

“As a child growing up the sixties, I never in my worst nightmares thought I would have to spend time explaining—in the the US of A—why torture is immoral.

Despite the fact Abu Ghraib came to light in early 2004, Bush STILL got re-elected later that year! How far we have fallen!”
————————& #8212;———————R 12;———————

As a child growing up in the sixties i wondered when all of the torture and oppression by the USA (i.e. government, police, and KKK) against marginalized people: (political dissidents, union activists, labor activists, arrested people of color, the victims of the original 9-11 of Central America, migrant workers, Puerto Rican nationalists, indigenous people, Appalachians, immigrants of color, African descent, East Timorese, Laotians, Philippines, South Africans, ..) would ever come to light…finally the true legacy of these United States is being revealed…finally.

It is enlightening to know how far back these atrocities of torture and oppression really go with the USA. The fact is the atrocities of torture and oppression go back to its (the USA’s) inception, which is why the so-called “moral authority” of the USA is one of history’s greatest deceptions.

the pre

Comment by “Lilmamzer”:

“The problem with Goodman and other blindered, myopic Trotskyite revaunchists is that they have no alternatives to Gitmo for protecting American lives from Jihadist Muslim murderers.”

I can’t speak for Goodman, but I can humbly offer my “alternative” to Gitmo: noninterventionism.

I agree with General Smedley Butler, twice winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor, who experienced an awakening and realized that, as a soldier, he was merely serving the interests of American corporations in subjugating (in his case) various Central American countries.

Butler concluded that the US should have no troops stationed in any foreign countries. The purpose of the armed forces is to defend America against invasion—an unlikely event in any case.

Do you want to change the way Muslims view America? Then stop meddling in their affairs, and once again become a shining example. America should concentrate her creative efforts on building better cars, making cool movies, and performing cool music (among other things). Muslims, like other religious believers, will moderate over time if we stop bombing and torturing them. Continuing the bombing and the torture just plays into the hands of the most radical among them.

lilmamzer is the classic example of Zionist amorality.  In his twisted little mind he actually thinks that Abu Ghraib and torture are beneficial.  But then what else should we expect.  As documented by numerous human rights organizations including the Israeli human rights organization, B’Tselem, and by Prof. Norman Finkelstein in “Beyond Chutzpah,” Palestinians have long been subjected to very same torture methods by the IDF that have been in play with the Bush regime.

For example, Finkelstein quotes an influential study by Amnesty International entitled “Torture in the Eighties” which notes, “The frequency and consistence of these reportes indicate that some Palestinians from the Occupied Territories arrested for security reasons…have been hooded, handcuffed and forced to stand without moving for many hours at a time for several days, and have been exposed while naked to cold showers or cold air ventilators for long periods of time.  Detainees have also been deprived of food, sleep, and toilet and medical supplies….”  The report notes “detailed reports of prisoners being beaten, sometimes severely.”  In one case a detainee alleged “while hooded handcuffed and sometimes tripped naked, he was, over a period of two weeks, beaten all over hthe body, including the genitals, with clubs and fists.”

The fact that a Seton Hall study revealed that 55% of the GITMO detainees never committed a hostile act against the U.S.; that only 8% have ties to al Qaeda and that the vast majority (86%) were captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance at a time when the U.S, was offering huge bounties for “suspected” terrorists is of little moment for a Zionist/racist, torture apologist like lilmamzer.  For him all one has to do is to label the individual a jihadist or an enemy combatant.  Why bother with little things like due process and separating the innocent from the guilty?

lilmamzer ought to change his name to “‘lil monster.”

#97424 by Paolo

Despite the fact Abu Ghraib came to light in early 2004, Bush STILL got re-elected later that year! How far we have fallen!

It would be far, far worse for this nation had Kerry been elected.

The problem with Goodman and other blindered, myopic Trotskyite revaunchists is that they have no alternatives to Gitmo for protecting American lives from Jihadist Muslim murderers.

What’s even worse is the fact that Goodman and her comrades are in fact a Jihadist fifth column, trying to undermine our freedoms and sovereignty.

Fredo & Rove may be leaving but the danger to the very survival of constitutional democracy remains.  This lawless administration is already floating the name of Michael Chertoff as a possible replacement.  Chertoff was the assistant head of the Justice Department’s criminal division when John Walker Lindh aka “The American Taliban” was captured.

According to Jesselyn Radack, formerly an attorney in the Justice Department’s ethics division, Chertoff ignored her advice not to interrogate Lindh without his being allowed access to a lawyer.  Lindh was tortured.  When the federal judge in the case ordered the Justice Department to turn over its internal documents, Radack found that her ethics memos had been removed.  She retrieved them from her own computer, unsuccessfully sought to turn them over to the federal prosecutor, then turned them over to the press.  For that she was fired, placed under a criminal investigation, placed on the No Fly list and efforts were made to get her disbarred.

Radack asserts that Chertoff lied during subsequent confirmation hearings to another post, claiming that he never received any communications from the ethics division.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/28/1327204

It is pretty clear that Chertoff, or anyone else Bush selects for the position, will be someone equally committed to overthrowing our constitutional system of checks and balances, be a willing apologist for the administration’s torture regime, an individual who is committed to subverting the truth and the rule of law in service of the administration’s never ending quest for unlimited power.

I was wondering did the neocons ever come up with any “statistics” to qualify how many INNOCENT detainees are tortured before we get a “guilty” one.

The exact wording of the 8th Amendment:

“Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

Does anyone argue that the punishments inflicted at Abu Ghraib were not “cruel and unusual”?

As a child growing up the sixties, I never in my worst nightmares thought I would have to spend time explaining—in the the US of A—why torture is immoral.

Despite the fact Abu Ghraib came to light in early 2004, Bush STILL got re-elected later that year! How far we have fallen!

I think we should add a new war. The war on corruption. We can allow all the same nazi tactics allowed for the war on terror. Then we can allow Alberto to be “dogged” by his past. In other words…its time to put the con in neocon(nazicon).

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

Maybe they should use the same type of interrogation techniques on Speedless Gonzales to get the answers needed.

I LIVE IN DALLAS, I CALLED MY BOSS AND TOLD HIM I QUIT..HE IS IN SEATTLE..  HE TOLD TO COME UP AND HAVE LUNCH AND TALK ABOUT IT..  YOU BET, NOW ABOUT THAT BRIDGE….

Instead of moving forward into a new and very challenged century w/esteemable hope, we are being dragged down into a dark, draconian hole - and Gonzales is just one of the tour guides.