#95429 by Louise on 8/16 at 9:26 am
•  He has a working knowledge of the methods and motives of those nations who tried to destroy the free world prior to and during WWII. Certainly he has to be a student of Hitler’s writings, specifically Mein Kampf. Because we see a pattern of behavior in Roves career that literally could have been using Mein Kampf as a play-book. Specifically Hitler’s views on propaganda.
Louise,
Thanks for the (as usual) excellent response. Now I know. (and it should have figured that he would have some sort of phony “teaching” sort of legitimacy as determined by…himself.
I did in fact read Ron Suskind’s account a while back. Matter of fact, that’s what helped to finally crystallize things for me, because I just really wasn’t getting his place in this whole thing. (the shrubs antics were well known, but as you’ve said, the boring rove worked from behind the scenes) It could even be said that I obviously wasn’t paying much attention, even when I was right there in the same state, as he was doing all of this very dirty work. That was unfortunate, because I paid pretty dearly for it. On the other hand, it WAS a lesson learned. So from that standpoint, I guess it was worth it. It’s like you said, the snakes don’t go away, but if you can at least have an idea of where they are, you can protect yourself.
Meantime, while I wouldn’t call myself an official historian, (at least not yet) I certainly know enough about Hitler’s writings and MO, to see that Rove has used it as a playbook, and I’ve noticed that for a long time now. Scares the pee outta me, if only because I feel like I’m having to wave my hands in front of the faces of people that I’ve known for decades, realizing that somewhere along the way these past several years, they’ve been caught-up in this propaganda, and now they’re just like…I don’t know…Stepfordized is the best way I can describe it.
And there I am, like snapping my fingers and waving my hands and saying…where are you? WHO are you? Come back!! Don’t follow them over this cliff!! But alas, they wouldn’t listen. And, for most, it hasn’t even been a lesson learned. That might be the worst of it.
Meantime, there’s probably a teaching position waiting for Karl at Liberty University. (I think that’s the name of that Pat Robertson law school that produced the likes of Monica Goodling and others). It’s still kind of hard for me to see him at any legitimate institution of higher learning.

But then, I could say the same thing about Feldman at NYU. How the hell did THAT happen? (nevermind, I already know..he has a spot at the compound in Kennebunkport too.):)

Driving Bear wrote:

...“The democrats and the left may not like Rove, but do not make the mistake of underestimating him.”...

Driving Bear,

I sure hope they’re paying attention, because THIS is crucial. We can NEVER underestimate him, or others like him.

The evaporation of all those democrats in Texas should be proof, but there are still many people that miss that. (unfortunately, Texas is obviously the perfect example…they seem to not see it coming, or fail to recognize the dangers).

So yes, I hope that more folks will have absorbed this lesson. Do not turn ones back on such people as Rove. He has not been disabled, but rather has simply changed tactics, and needs to operate now, from a new compound of secrecy, since the old covers have been blown.

#95199 by cyrena on 8/15 at 1:35 pm

I have relatives who went to school with Rove.
They chuckle when they read praise in the local press about his successes in Utah. Good reading there, his history in Utah. If you can find anything that hasn’t been doctored.

Rove is boring, and has no charisma. Even with a well written speech, his delivery is still boring. Recognizing early on he could never win a political election, he decided to turn his talents to winning for others. But with a penchant for dirty tricks, bending the law, lying and flat out cheating, he had to find the “right” others.

Because of his success as a “political strategist” [a strategy that includes all of the above] he is considered teaching material at some of the more “conservative” Universities that offer political science in their curriculum. 
At least that’s what the hype [probably created by him] tells us. Certainly no-one could know where to find all the cracks in the armor if they hadn’t studied the armor. And we must remember there are still some out there who have no clue how deeply dishonest and corrupt Rove and those candidates he considers his “successes” are.

Because he labels himself an historian, folks whose memory of history covers their last trip to Disneyland accept that as gospel.

In the article;
Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush
By RON SUSKIND [October 17, 2004]
Suskind tells us of a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. [later confirmed as Rove]

“He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend—but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

” ... guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality ... judiciously, as you will ... we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

Such is the nature of Rove. His conceit, his ego leads him to believe he creates history. Absent any kind of accountability, nothing yet has caused him to question his right to that belief.

He has a working knowledge of the methods and motives of those nations who tried to destroy the free world prior to and during WWII. Certainly he has to be a student of Hitler’s writings, specifically Mein Kampf. Because we see a pattern of behavior in Roves career that literally could have been using Mein Kampf as a play-book. Specifically Hitler’s views on propaganda.

Successful criminals never quit when they’re ahead. They just don’t!
I guess that’s the stupid factor, and they all have it.

While the congress may be after him, he, along with Bush and Cheney and Gonzales have consistently flipped congress off. Their contempt for law has given them the sense that they cant be touched. And the 109th congress ... the dumbest and most corrupt congress this nation has ever had ... gave them all a free pass when they created the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

So no, Rove will not go away. Like a poisonous snake whose pit has been discovered, he’ll simply slither off and dig a new pit. Where he will welcome and entertain the same types who helped him become that “successful” political strategist.

Why is Gonzales in Iraq? Maybe Gonzales has a Sadist streak and needs a few visuals.
I think there’s a streak of Sadism running through that whole pack.

Or maybe it’s hoped he’ll run across an IED ... end of problem.

Since Rove is out of the white house , I have only one thing to say to the democrats and the left: be very very afraid. Rove knows bush will be out of power January 2009, So Rove might be just be moving on to the next president Bush.
Remember when Rove went to Texas all state wide elected positions were in the hands of the democrats.
10 years later thanks in part to Rove all were in republican hands.
The democrats and the left may not like Rove, but do not make the mistake of underestimating him.

#94957 by Louise on 8/14 at 7:51 pm

Louise,

Great essay, especially on the theme of the SYMPTOMS. I’ve got a question on one thing though, (since I apparently missed this part of the Rovian’s history). Does he really have a reputation as a teacher and an historian? Did he ever “play” those positions at any time in his fraudulent career? Just curious.

….”who saw their political position not as an opportunity to serve, but as an opportunity to gain personal power.”…

“…Using his “skills” and the eagerness of others to win at any cost, he has made a personal fortune and gained a reputation as an historian and a teacher, when in fact the only reputation he deserves is being the man who taught those “winners” how to cheat more efficiently.”…
“….

“….And while the temptation is there for some, particularly in the media to believe he is leaving ...
His EGO will never allow him to quit while he thinks he’s still ahead.

Ya know, this will just continue to keep me guessing. I honestly thought that the guy could very well be getting out of dodge. I mean, it seems simple enough to me. The law is after the guy. And, even though neither he or any of the cabal have ever concerned themselves with things like that, (because they’ve always had all of that easily sewn-up, what with Gonzo being in charge of that end of it.)

Consequently, Karl (as well as cheney and the others) have been able to break all of these laws, and steal all of the money, and do it all with impunity. BUT, that’s sort of coming to an end, which is why they started back a while ago, to ram all of these crazy laws into our record. All of this stuff, the MCA, the “newly nullified” FISA, and others, have basically been rammed through, in order to “make legal”, what they’ve already been ILLEGALLY doing, (like spying without a warrant) for some years now.
Big-Ego types like Rove and Cheney, and morons like the Shrub, don’t ever figure that they’ll have to be accountable for that, but then again…they aren’t so stupid that they don’t know there’s a good possibility of a slew of investigations into ALL of this stuff, even if it’s not until they leave office.

My guess is that they’ve changed the laws to legalize their actions, just so that they won’t have to face the music after they’re out of power. (or at least out of direct access to everything that goes on in our government…they’ll stay in “power”)

So, that’s why my “conspiracy mentality” kicked in, and made me immediately suspect that Rove was preparing to make a run for it, because there are in fact still a handful of folks in Congress, working on this stuff. All of these dirty deeds, and specifically the fall-out from the US Attorney firings. (I remember thinking when that was exposed, that it might be the one time he really had gone too far, and that this might be the thing to bring the whole pile down, and rushing into the gutter).

THEN, as if that wasn’t enough for a conspiracy theorist, there was the other “dot” on the radar at the same time as Rove’s “resignation” news hit the airways, we also learned that Gonzo was in…..IRAQ! Now, what the hell is he doing THERE?!! Allegedly he’s there to “assist the Iraqis with setting up a legal system”. Yeah, right. And I’m the Queen of Sheba.

So really…is this not just really the strangest thing? I mean, thinking of the historically traditional duties of THE US Attorney General, have we EVER known ANY of them to visit a WAR ZONE? That just seems totally bizarre to me.

So, why would Gonzo already be in Iraq, (unless that was just to throw us off of his trail, and he’s really hiding under the shrubs desk, and I suppose that’s possible. I think it was an article from the BBC that put him there) and at the same time as Rove’s “announcement”?

So, I dunno. I realize he may have had to leave the WH, in order to continue running things as secretly as he had been doing before. And, there is the rumor about him setting up shop in Florida, to run the Jeb campaign for 2012.

The difference between “then and now” comparisons is the mere fact that I just read the article and everyone’s posts and I agree and can respond immediately.  And this is what has made all the difference.

Many knew something was up, the lies, theivery and such. But it was the opportunity for the exchange of and support for those who took those initial steps and made the issues known and accurate information available.  After that everything just went rushing downhill.

As for Rove, yep, I wouldn’t turn my back on him for a minute.  I will say however, when I think of Rove, “brain” isn’t what comes to mind.  I think more along the lines of “ASS”.

#95076 by farmertx on 8/15 at 7:12 am

•  ...“Yet the fact that so many did willingly vote for him and continued to express support for him after things started to unravel speaks of an evil genius….”

This is very true, and scary as hell. Still is.

• 
....“Shrub sure as heck didn’t have the sense to accomplish that on his own, even with the Shootist flipping everybody off…”

This too…is TRUE, and hilarious. Thanks for the grin.

Pacrat says Der Karl isn’t an evil genius. Yet he took a clueless underachieving slacker, draft dodger to boot and got a lot of normally sensible people to vote for him.
Had it not been for the Electoral College in 2000 and Diebold in ‘04, he would have failed.
Yet the fact that so many did willingly vote for him and continued to express support for him after things started to unravel speaks of an evil genius.
Shrub sure as heck didn’t have the sense to accomplish that on his own, even with the Shootist flipping everybody off.
Heck,listen to the boy try and speak a complete sentence that isn’t written down, on a Teleprompter or fed to him through a ‘tailor’s mistake’.
Plus there was the complete breakdown of the Democrat’s unwilling to seem ‘soft’ on terrorism; that was Rove telling the Shrub how to word the message.
Even Republican’s were afraid to speak up. One knew of the mess at Walter Reed, yet refused to mention it in Congress, lest he be seen as not supporting the troops.
Letting our troops receive 3rd world care in the nations Capitol could be seen as supporting the troops? Evidently.
That was the genius of Der Karl.

And Louise is right that his success speaks of the problems that at the core of wrongness in this country.
Ask not what my country can do for me. Ask how much money can I scam it out of, instead.

While the articles about Karl Rove on this site do not sing his praises, it never ceases to amaze me how blindly reporters who have access to all the same information we have, still credit Rove for guiding Bush to winning election as president ... twice.

My God! Bush was never elected president of the United States!
Bush has no more legitimate claim to that statement than you or I!

But recognizing the writers have to protect that side of their bread that gets the butter, I guess we can expect no more!
I have no such worries.

Karl Rove is not just a clever liar and a fraud. He is a symptom. A symptom of everything that’s wrong with politics.

That thin line crossed over when winning no matter what, becomes more important than simply being the winner.

That drive that sends people off looking for new and creative ways to bend the rules, go around the rules, or just plain break the rules.

That smugness that comes from re-aligning and re-districting and purging and caging and using machines that can easily be “fixed” and then patting themselves on the back because they found a better way to cheat.

That foulness behind the “winners” smile because the degeneration has become so complete that the cheater is proud he won because he’s such a cleaver cheat.

It is a cancer that has very nearly consumed the republican party. It is so pervasive and so filthy and so deep that even otherwise perceived to be “good” people joke about it, brag about it and dig down to their deepest and lowest common denominator to justify it.

Karl did not create the disease that has made the word “republican” synonymous with the word “cheat.” Like one of his contemporaries, Mark Hoffman, he used good and honest men to create an environment that would ensnare them and bring him wealth and power. He saw mans weakness and used it.

Karl could just as easily have decided to be a democrat, but the way was paved in the republican party. A party governed by a man [Nixon] and surrounded by men [and you know their names] who saw their political position not as an opportunity to serve, but as an opportunity to gain personal power.

The choice was ... is obvious. Men that hungry for power are easily persuaded to cheat.

Using his “skills” and the eagerness of others to win at any cost, he has made a personal fortune and gained a reputation as an historian and a teacher, when in fact the only reputation he deserves is being the man who taught those “winners” how to cheat more efficiently.

But we must remember, they are still there. And while we probably shouldn’t give Rove credit for all their personal corruption. He certainly does deserve recognition as the single most obvious symptom of the disease. And for that reason, there is NO reason to believe he will quietly slip from the back room where all the dirty deeds are done.

Notable criminals in history have never quit when their ahead.
Which is why in the end they almost always get caught.
And while the temptation is there for some, particularly in the media to believe he is leaving ...
His EGO will never allow him to quit while he thinks he’s still ahead.

“Control of the house of representatives and the senate????????”  “Control” might be the last characterization I’d use.

Macktn, I don’t think any of us ever expect the whole truth of Shrubs’ administration to come out. Not for years, if then.
That’s one reason I question the need for a library for him. The real paper’s concerning his terms will be classified and unavailible. The paper’s that are open will be mundane at best or disinformation ginned up for public perusal.
That is why I writemy congress critter’s asking them to forget investigating and get on with impeachment before the next incident is staged to give them (Shrub or Shootist) a reason to declare martial law.
Shrubs’ statement, ‘I’ll be following you soon’... well just remember, he has lied before.

Yes, exactly.  The slow trickle of bush people from the White House should send out alarms to anyone who’s ever worked in a campaign against these fellows. 

If you think they don’t have a plan for saving Bush’s legacy by ensuring the “Iraq” files don’t get into Democratic hands, then you are naive. 

Rove is not sitting in front of the TV, beer in one hand, remote in the other.

#94871 by mackTN on 8/14 at 11:35 am
(14 comments total)
Rove clearly has an assignment that he cannot legally carry out in the White House.  Believe me, he’s not going home to spend time with his family.

Cannot legally carry out? As if legally would make a whit of difference to any of this administration.
His helping Hillary is kinda out there, but we have seen that nothing is too low or outrageous for him.
Just as in Texas, the last election for Governor. The incumbent, Shrubs’ Lt. Gov. had his people contribute to two Democrat candidates to split the vote. This allowed him to retain office with 36% of the vote.
Texas, in its wisdom, requires runoffs in all elections where one candidate doesn’t get at least 50% of the vote, except the Governor’s race. Kinda like the Texas version of the Electoral College.

The slow trickle of Bush operatives out of the White House means they have a job they can’t legally perform employed by the government.

They will make sure that the next president will not be a Democrat. 

Remember, Ford pardoned Nixon when the entire country thought he should be prosecuted.

I believe nearly every knowing lie and illegality of the Bush administration will ultimately see the light of day once Bush/Cheney are out of office.  Unfortunately, they cannot be prosecuted for their crimes while in office, but their underlings can.  And I strongly believe that exposing the corruptions and dishonesties in the White House and the Republican congress will result in putting a Democrat in the White House for the next 16 years.  Eight years of Hiliary Clinton then eight years of Barrack Obama.  That is the only Karl Rove legacy that really matters!

Rove clearly has an assignment that he cannot legally carry out in the White House.  Believe me, he’s not going home to spend time with his family.

Bush is leaving office, which means his files—everything his administration has been trying to keep secret away from the eyes of Democrats—is going to be examined should a Democrat get elected.

Yes, Mr. Robinson, Karl Rove practices a sordid art.  Do you really think he’s retiring from that?  I think his mission is to help Hillary win the Democratic primary.  Karl Rove has the tools and the capital to ensure that a Republican win the presidency.  It is in Israel’s best interest.  Bush’s mideast ties ensures that it is in the interests of a lot of people that the next president be a Republican. 

Think people.  Do you really believe that these people will retire in front of the tv with a beer in one hand and remote in the other?

Farmtex, you are to kind in your description of Herr Drove and the Weed, He took an empty headed(coke head-drunk puppet) and turned him into a wannabe* warrior,that weasel never have the qualifications to ever be considered a “warrior”.Warriors were people,usually male but also female,who were brave,trustworthy,honest,friecely protective of family and tribe,unlike what this dog and pony show duo has shown. They are cowards and liars. They have shown no loyality to America and its people, they have done everything against it.

They cheated in the 2004 election in Ohio. A district that turns in almost 3xs more votes than registered voters should disqualify all the votes from the whole state of Ohio.If Weed were as close to God as he claims(it fools a lot of people) and a good Christian that he professes to be,then he would have declared that the votes in the state of Ohio would not be counted toward his other stolen win in the history of the USA.But I guess he is only paying lip service to those easily lead by lies and deception. Lets hope Weed soon follows this lastest bush bunchy to leave the ranks of this “Shire of Bushville”.#
* wannabe- noun created by the native american population w

Farmtex, you are to kind in your description of Herr Drove and the Weed, He took an empty headed(coke head-drunk puppet) and turned him into a wannabe* warrior,that weasel never have the qualifications to ever be considered a “warrior”.Warriors were people,usually male but also female,who were brave,trustworthy,honest,friecely protective of family and tribe,unlike what this dog and pony show duo has shown. They are cowards and liars. They have shown no loyality to America and its people, they have done everything against it.

They cheated in the 2004 election in Ohio. A district that turns in almost 3xs more votes than registered voters should disqualify all the votes from the whole state of Ohio.If Weed were as close to God as he claims(it fools a lot of people) and a good Christian that he professes to be,then he would have declared that the votes in the state of Ohio would not be counted toward his other stolen win in the history of the USA.But I guess he is only paying lip service to those easily lead by lies and deception. Lets hope Weed soon follows this lastest bush bunchy to leave the ranks of this “Shire of Bushville”.#
* wannabe- noun created by the native american population when referring to all the newly discovered “white eyes” who suddenly decided it was cool to be NDN.
#shire-small town or county, to small for a king and queen(weed and drove)

He was a kind of Bush’s leash

ocjim
Actually, Diebold, with its magic voting machine, is what turned the tide in Ohio.
The Shrub wasn’t taking any chances that the will of the people could prevail, like it almost did in 2000. And would have done so, had it not been for the Electoral College.

Eugene also forgot to mention the stolen election in Ohio. Wedge issues, Swift Boaters, unintelligent Kerry campaigning and a friendly media got Bush close enough for the usual Rove dirty tricks in Ohio to get his boy elected. The worst part of Rove is the damage he has done to our country, to democracy. His amoral, Machiavellian, politics-based approach sucked the life out of trust and hope among Americans perhaps for evermore.

Amen to Shrub not being on that road soon enough.
Mr Robinson forgot one small detail that aided the Shrub in 2000; the now useless Electoral College.
At its inception, it was a needed entity. That time passed early in the last century.
But, giving the devil his due, Der Karl took a draft dodger and made him into a warrior while taking a man who actually fought and turned him into a traitor.
Allegedly, the military disliked Bill Clinton because he had a student deferment as a Rhodes Scholar. (Shrub thinks a Rhodes Scholar is someone who travels a lot)
But the military allegedly loved the Shrub whose military service consisted of a photo-op and getting his teeth checked before he asked for early dismissal.
(Remember when the Shootist went to Afghanistan and the troops—American troops—had to be searched before entering the mess tent to hear him speak?)
Yes, Der Karl leaves behind a legacy, one of hatred and division. One of lies and deception. And he is proud of that.
Joe Goebbels, obviously Der Karls’ mentor did netter for Hitler. But they controlled the press and willingly killed citizens who opposed them. Shrub wasn’t willing to go that far.
Now, the Shootist…well, he just might be willing. The next few months will tell.