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|  Democrats Punt on National SecurityPosted on Aug 10, 2007By E.J. Dionne WASHINGTON—Shortly before noon last Saturday, about 20 House Democrats huddled in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office to decide what to do about a surveillance bill that had been dumped on them by the Senate before it left town. Many of the Democrats were furious. They believed they had negotiated in good faith with Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence. They sought to give the Bush administration the authority it needed to intercept communications involving foreign nationals in terrorism investigations while preserving some oversight. But the administration held out for granting McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales more power while seriously circumscribing the role of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The Senate’s Democratic leadership, lacking the votes to pass a measure more to the House’s liking, gave the administration what it wanted. At one point, according to participants in the meeting, the passionate discussion veered toward the idea of standing up to the administration—even at the risk of handing President Bush a chance to bash Democrats on “national security,” as is his wont. Several members from swing districts—including Reps. Heath Shuler of North Carolina and Patrick Murphy of Pennsylvania—expressed openness to having Congress stay in town to fight if important constitutional issues were at stake. But the moment passed. Even some very liberal Democrats worried about the political costs of blocking action before the summer recess. That Saturday night, the House sent the president a bill that, as a disgusted Rep. David Wu, D-Ore., put it, with a touch of exaggeration, “makes Alberto Gonzalez the sheriff, the judge and the jury.” Most Democrats opposed the bill, but 41 (including Shuler) voted “yes,” allowing it to pass. (Murphy remained passionately opposed.) The one Democratic victory: The legislation expires in six months, meaning the debate will resume this fall. But Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., warned his colleagues that “when you give up your rights under the Constitution, it is not likely you are going to regain them.” The episode was the culmination of a shameful era in which serious issues related to national security and civil liberties were debated in a climate of fear and intimidation, saturated by political calculation and the quest for short-term electoral advantage. Politically, Republicans won this round in two ways. They got the president the bill he wanted, and that created absolute fury in the Democratic base. Pelosi has received more than 200,000 e-mails of protest, according to an aide, for letting the bill go forward. Democrats concede they made an enormous tactical blunder by not dealing with the issue earlier, forcing the question to the fore in the days before the recess. One anxiety hovered over the debate: If a terrorist attack happened, and if Congress had not given Bush what he wanted, the Democrats would get blamed for a lack of vigilance. “Could something happen over August?” asked Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., in an interview. “Sure it could. What bothered me is that too many Democrats allowed that fear to turn into a demand for some atrocious legislation.” The saga also underscored how constrained congressional Democrats feel because of their tenuous majority in the Senate. Had the Senate sent the House an alternative bill, sponsored by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., the two houses could have put a more limited proposal on the president’s desk and challenged him to veto it. But the Levin-Rockefeller proposal failed. McConnell, in the meantime, played an ambiguous role. Democrats acknowledge that the intelligence director never explicitly agreed to the House leadership’s proposal. But their fears that McConnell was not calling the shots were stoked when Democratic leaders tried at one point to reach him by phone. An assistant to McConnell let slip that the intelligence director could not pick up because he was on the line with the White House. It was another sign, said a top Democratic aide, that “the White House was driving the train on this.” The entire display was disgraceful because an issue of such import should not be debated in a political pressure cooker. It’s not even clear that new legislation was required; Holt, for one, believes many of the problems with handling interceptions involving foreign nationals are administrative in nature, and that beefing up and reorganizing the staff around the FISA court might solve the outstanding problems. But if legislation was needed, there were many ways to grant necessary authority while preserving real oversight. The Democrats got trapped, and they punted. The Republicans have never met a national security issue they’re not willing to politicize. This is no way to run a superpower. E.J. Dionne’s e-mail address is postchat(at)aol.com. © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group SHARE THIS TRUTHDIG ARTICLE:
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Confronting the Terrorist Within
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Jump to Comments
By atheo, August 20, 2007 at 9:36 am #
Tony,
TONY didn’t Kucinich support Kerry??? C’mon now.
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, August 20, 2007 at 8:37 am #
Re #95892 by atheo on 8/19 at 9:29 am
atheo, Zena:
I would like to see a Kucinich-Paul bipartisan peace ticket. I sure don’t agree with atheo about Kucinich. He is by far the most peace-oriented and principled of any candidate. His record of public service is sparkling; he has been more right on more issues by far than any other candidate. His election would signify a second, peaceful American revolution. It’s probably not going to happen, but we can at least pray for it. If our prayers are not answered, and Obama, Clinton or Edwards runs against Romney or Guiliani, I will vote for the Democrat without hesitation.
Report thisBy Zena, August 20, 2007 at 12:21 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
atheo ; I believe you are totally trying to confuse the issues. It’s the Republicans who want to nuke everyone, knock every woman up and watch them starve. Reserve health care for the rich, and rob the poor to give to the rich. And if that’s what paul stands for, I reject it just as much as I would the works of the devil. Oh, but I forget. You repubs don’t believe in the devil but you say GOD gave all the riches to the rich men....hmmmmm, somethings wrong with this picture. Democrats are for everybody. Or at least is supposed to be. Any Democrat who acts otherwise is a lying Republican. And we know just how ‘ammoral’ they are now. What’s ur problem? People won’t suck up ur scum no more? The Devil is a great accuser. And u must make the big bucks. Bite me. “Do not answer a fool in his folly.” The Bible.
Report thisBy atheo, August 19, 2007 at 9:29 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Zena,
Do you not consider the dims racist? Their “major” candidates want to invade Pakistan and or nuke Iran. I’d take a Ron Paul presidency, complete with states rights, before voting dim. I’ll guarantee you one thing, after the primaries Kucinich will back these genocidal warmongers, something Paul won’t do, Paul does stand a better chance of getting the nomination to boot.
Report thisBy Zena, August 18, 2007 at 2:59 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Tsk, tsk, tsk; atheo, don’t go putting words in my mouth, although this is something I will have to consider....I didn’t say the state GOV blew up the Murrah building, but I find it interesting that you took it that way. You must be a republican propagandist. GOOD WORK! I’ve never seen such writing skill in my life. But in the south, we have MANY rascist states. You’d put such power in the hands of petty-minded, stingy, Republican, constituion-shredding little men? And for my mind, I’d like to know if Ron Paul would too....?
Report thisBy atheo, August 16, 2007 at 10:05 pm #
Federations of diverse provinces or cantons are usually successful. Canada and Switzerland come to mind. I don’t know that the State of Oklahoma is any more responsible for the murrah bombing than the Feds. I don’t think a state militia would likely engage in foreign adventures to the extent of our current regime, no matter how racist or fundamentalist. As Ron Paul says, if you cut the pentagon budget by 50% and eliminated corporate wellfare, you wouldn’t need a national income tax.
Report thisBy Zena, August 16, 2007 at 5:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
atheo, thXs for ur comments. You have a point and it may be true, but what would that look like? My state is about as corrupt as the Bush administration who by the way had a lot of supporters here in Okla. But they had already blown up the Murrah building to make the people here fear them. Wouldn’t it just cause them to go into the mercenary war business? Wouldn’t they just be renting them out so to speak? This state government wants to give ALL the programs over to the churches and believe me, there are some pretty snity ones here. Plz, describe how this would work. I’m all ears.
Report thisBy atheo, August 16, 2007 at 3:16 pm #
Zena,
I’m not a fan of Freedom to Fascism, but their message is not anarchy but constitutional rule of law. Believe it or not the US has functioned through most of it’s history without taxing labor. Think about it, why discourage labor? Taxation of capital gains, excise taxes, and import tariffs are all constitutional. Technically, taxing labor is illegal in the US, though the courts have a way of not recognising it. If we relied more on State militias for defense, we wouldn’t have bases all over the globe.
Report thisBy Skruff, August 16, 2007 at 2:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
#95502 by Zena on 8/16 at 1:30 pm
(”...the fact of the matter is that state gov. have become almost as corrupt as the fed. And in fact, some of the feds powers were expanded when state governments started disobeying or ignoring federal and constitutional laws against the people.”
Maybe, but the corruption depends on which state, AND at the state level it is easier for the people to get involved. $400,000,000 to run for president successfully in 2008. Governor Baldacci paid 1.7 million to get his state job. As to ignoring Federal and Constitutional laws, the Feds seem to be better at that than even George Wallace!
As a people we have already been split up by agitators and secret socities and think-tanks. Dont you think that it would be better to unite the people and not further destroy our unity?
I am not sure there is a way to “further destroy our unity” as I do npot see any! New England has not executed a prisoner since 1976, and there is no big push to get a death penalty here. We vote Democratic at the National level, and Maine has not picked a winning presidential candidate since Reagan. On any issue from abortion to gay rights we are more liberal, and less “structured” than solidly red Virginia which has picked the winning candidate in 8 out of the last 10 elections.
I’m not sure Maine citizens have anything in common with citizens of Virginia other than a semi-common language I do not know that I believe in the USA anymore. Regional areas four or five seem like a better idea.
Report thisBy Zena, August 16, 2007 at 1:30 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Great comments Skruff; but the fact of the matter is that state gov. have become almost as corrupt as the fed. And in fact, some of the fed’s powers were expanded when state governments started disobeying or ignoring federal and constitutional laws against the people. Oh wouldn’t our state reps luV that! As a people we have already been split up by agitators and secret socities and think-tanks. Don’t you think that it would be better to unite the people and not further destroy our unity? After all, we have gangs, churches, other social structures that all rather keep to themselves and are often a santuary from the lawless outside the groups. And that’s not counting the rascists groups. What I’d like to see is someone come up with some graphs and figures on the federal government and where the money is going. Along with this request: show me the laws. My own state gov. hides certain laws and such from the people in order to accomplish their private agendas. They are supposed to be writing their bills at an eighth-grade level so the general populace can understand them but more often than not, they don’t and we don’t even get to read them before they pass them into law. What gives politicians the right to pass laws on their own in the first place, when the people are supposed to be informed of such things in the first place at the very least? They say ignorance of the law is not excuse, but it is when it is hidden from the people! They’ve created a labyrinth of gov. offices it takes at least a day to find one that you’ve never been to before. Deliberate or not? The state has long practiced unaccountabilty. Now which way do we go?
Report thisBy CitizenDefender, August 16, 2007 at 1:06 pm #
“SIGN THE PETITION” FROM THE A.C.L.U.
“Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi,
You crossed the line and played right into the hands of President Bush and rewarded his lawless behavior last week when you allowed the FISA bills to go through Congress, giving the President and his administration more power to invade our privacy and ignore our Constitutional rights. “
https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Dont _Fail_Freedom_petition
PRINTABLE PDF OF PELOSI AND REID AS SHEEP
http://action.aclu.org/site/DocServer/BAAAD_ad.pdf?doc ID=1541&JServSessionIdr005=dtxlr2x3n3.app25a
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 16, 2007 at 5:33 am #
#95307 by Zena on 8/15 at 11:06 pm: “...Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure...”
Whether or not you have the answer, Zena, you already have the clue. Anarchy is not a productive path and revolution by overthrow of an elected government, in short, is not good karma. Of course, the last time there was an unelected government in the USA was back in 2000 but everybody was asleep then.
Well, a lot has changed since then, hasn’t it? Perhaps people are a little more awake now. Its a little late, though. First, people have to be willing to make positive changes within themselves and take responsibility for their own lives. They don’t do this - and they give over rulership of their lives to whoever comes along, be it a spouse or a politician.
Change happens from within. That applies to individuals as well as to governments and countries. See how hard it has been for Pelosi and the new wave of Democrats. Even though they have not been in ascendancy long, voters still lazily expect everything of them and do nothing more than carp and whine themselves. It is not enough!
For a country which has already had one civil war, American citizens are unbelievably both blind and inept at politics. In other words, they are asleep. Like the lemmings, when they eventually plunge over the cliff, they will not be missed by history. Still, that is said to be a misconception so there may yet be a chance, ha ha! Wouldn’t want to keep on risking an easy one, though........
Report thisBy Skruff, August 16, 2007 at 4:59 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
95307 by Zena on 8/15 at 9:06 pm
“Yes, Douglas Ive seen this vid and others. Shall we dissolve the American gov.? Isnt that what they want? If we stopped paying taxes, would they kill us or just gleefully destroy and dissolve our gov. ourselves and not have to hear how they are breaking the law? Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure?”
Actually Zena would it be 100% negative to disband Federal government? I suppose that the idea that citizens can not survive without some type of oppressive yoke is deeply ingrained in American folk lore, but could a localized government be more useful and less repressive?
How about cutting the nation into four or five pieces held together by a loose confederation of regions. It is obvious from the voting map, that this is at least two seperate and very differen nations dispite our common government.
Do we have to do an Iraq to disengage? or can we do it in an orderly and peaceful fashion?
Report thisBy Zena, August 15, 2007 at 9:06 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Yes, Douglas I’ve seen this vid and others. Shall we dissolve the American gov.? Isn’t that what they want? If we stopped paying taxes, would they kill us or just gleefully destroy and dissolve our gov. ourselves and not have to hear how they are breaking the law? Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure?
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 15, 2007 at 8:21 pm #
#95267 by Zena on 8/15 at 5:39 pm: “...We should dissolve Homeland security and set up something else. The heads of it should be tried for treason to failure to protect us from the threats to our nation and our people from the South....”
“America: Freedom to Fascism” - Director’s Authorized Version http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867 390173 1 hr 51 min http://www.freedomtofascism.com
Report thisBy Zena, August 15, 2007 at 5:39 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
We should dissolve Homeland security and set up something else. The heads of it should be tried for treason to failure to protect us from the threats to our nation and our people from the South. They almost have enough here to kill us all, you incompetent boobs. Have you never read ANYTHING about war???
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 14, 2007 at 7:25 am #
#94753 by purplewolf on 8/13 at 11:23 pm
(36 comments total)
# 94609 Artist General
I really loved your rendition of Set it Free. Awesome!
Elder Earl take your lithium stat.
_____________________________________________________
Since I’ve started writing in this menagerie, the doc has increase my dose of lithium to a 1000mg...lol
Report thisBy purplewolf, August 13, 2007 at 11:23 pm #
# 94609 Artist General
I really loved your rendition of “Set it Free”. Awesome!
Elder Earl take your lithium stat.
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 9:26 pm #
#94560 by ardee on 8/13 at 10:22 am
(456 comments total)
Earl mumbles, after the drugs kick in no doubt:
The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about. They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.
Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
aside from the obvious misplaced large ego noted, it would seem that Earl and Bush are masters of the malaprop, what else do they have in common I wonder? Possibly the drugs......by the by, bold face is my highlighting.....
_____________________________________________________
Thanks for the correction. I did forget to take my medication. I am going to get it now....
The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about. They may not have no back bone or is their closet FULL of things their do not want exposed.
Bush STOOD up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 13, 2007 at 4:28 pm #
Quote E.J. Dionne, Jr., Columnist: “Could something happen over August?” asked Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., in an interview. “Sure it could. What bothered me is that too many Democrats allowed that fear to turn into a demand for some atrocious legislation.......”
Something is happening over August - in Sydney, Australia. This is a new global security agenda which sees armed forces co-operating directly with each other instead of facing each other on the battlefieds. So, what are they really up to???
Quote: International army chiefs attend secret Sydney meeting - “A secret meeting was held in Sydney last week between the chiefs of armies from around the world, including the US, Japan and Indonesia. ......The ABC has revealed that the chiefs of army from 19 countries met in secret in Sydney last week....
“What we’ve all agreed ....is that we need to look at the methods of education and how we prepare our individuals for the uncertainty of these complex environments that we are headed into.” .......the chiefs discussed the way in which military operations are becoming more complex, with an increase in peacekeeping and counter-terrorism duties. ......They also examined ways that they could cooperate to ensure armies are best prepared to deal with the new situations....” http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/14/2004160.htm
Report thisBy Artist General, August 13, 2007 at 1:17 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: WriteWrongs / i.e., Two Songs
HIT THE ROAD GEORGE
Hit the road George
and don’t you come back no more no war no Endless War
Hit the road George!
and don’t-yer-Party come back for more
Woah People, oh folks, don’t treat us so mean,
You’re the meanest old Nation that I’ve ever seen.
I guess if you said so
I’d have to pack my thing$ and go. (That’s right)
Hit the Road George
and don’t-yer Party come back no more no more for Endless War
hit the road George
What you Say?!
Hit the Road George & don’t you come back for more no more no Endless War
Hit the Road George & don’t-ya come back for more no more no more for More
Now people, listen folks don’t ya treat me this-a way
cause I’ll be back from defeat someday
(cursed if you do ‘cause it’s understood
you ain’t got clean money you just ain’t no GOOD)
Well I guess if you say so
I’d have to pack my thing$ & go (that’s right)
Hit the road George
and don’t you come back no more no more no Endless War
Hit the road George
and don’t you come back for more
Well
(don’t you come back no more)
Uh, what you say?
(IMPeach...)
I didn’t understand you…
(don’t you come back for more)
You can’t mean that…
(don’t you come back no more)
what you tryin’ to do to me
(don’t you come-back for more)
O don’t treat me like that
(you & yours...the whole sorry lotta ya! the Vice Precedent...Turd Blossom...the PNAC Gallery...GOPeteredPrinciple ChickenHawkius Wrexus...Coup Clux Clanners...Root-of-all-Evilists...Faustian Soldyur$...Backboneless BadApple “Democrats”
O Yeah, BIGtime--there’s the Bloody RUB!
TOLDya-so America: ...Green Thumb$-Up$uckers ALL
...of Hou$e Bushelzebub…
don’t ya come back no more)…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
SET IT FREE
When we find ourselves in Crimes of Warfare, Phatcat Cheney comes to $ee,
speaking words of wi$dumb, let it be
and in this hour of darkness he is standing right in front of me
speaking words on YouTube, let it be…
let it be, let it be Iran now can’t-choo-$ee
whispurred word$ to Dubya, let it be
Let it be, let it be, Irannow don’t-choo-$ee
Whi$purred words of Phatcat, “$et it free"…
And if the broken hearted people living there agree,
occupation’s not the answer, let it be.
For though they may be jaded there is still a chance that they will see,
Jesus want$ their Oil “Free”, sow “let it be”.
Let it be, $et it Free…
And though Iraq is “Cloudy”, there is still IRAN, that shines for me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the $ound of Chao$, brother Cheney comes to me,
speaking words of Warjone$, let it be.
Let it be, $et it Free.....
Report thisBy ardee, August 13, 2007 at 10:22 am #
Earl mumbles, after the drugs kick in no doubt:
The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about. They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.
Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
aside from the obvious misplaced large ego noted, it would seem that Earl and Bush are masters of the malaprop, what else do they have in common I wonder? Possibly the drugs......by the by, bold face is my highlighting.....
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 7:57 am #
#94489 by cyrena on 8/13 at 7:04 am
(785 comments total)
Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
Well, you do at least make others aware of the existence of this fictional thinking.
*****Fortunately, (W) had mostly figured that out already.
_____________________________________________________
cyrena, must have a mice in cyrena pocket, surely cyrena is not speaking for everyone....
I know cyrena is not able to speak for me due to cyrena bigoted thinking on me being apart of the KKK is wrong. cyrena and Nancy P. seem to parallel in mental perceptions as they both seem to stand on the wrong side of the issues.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 13, 2007 at 7:04 am #
Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
Well, you do at least make others aware of the existence of this “fictional thinking.”
Fortunately, we had mostly figured that out already.
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 6:59 am #
#94432 by cyrena on 8/13 at 1:10 am
(783 comments total)
Meantime, youre right. It doesnt have anything to do with anything that the rest of us are talking about, and the Elder has only succeeded in distracting us, albeit momentarily. So, weve now provided the charge he so desperately needed in his miserable little life, and so we have done our duty, and can now ignore him for the rest of the term.
Eventually, hell go away, even if its just to turn up somewhere else, until a new batch of folks figure out what the deal is.
_____________________________________________________
Again we are back into incorrectness of a mental mind set that deludes straight forward thinking.
It does not matter how much knowledge of the bible one has as it is the incorrectness of bigotry bias in association with KKK.
The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about. They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.
Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 13, 2007 at 1:10 am #
#94388 by Tony Wicher on 8/12 at 8:30 pm
...."But what, I would like to know, has this got to do with the further weakening of our constitutional liberties abetted by cowardly Democrats? Couldnt we just keep somewhat on topic and ignore those who keep dragging in their religious predilections?...”
Tony,
Thanks for the verification on where that chapter is in the books. I could of course have checked it out easily enough, by actually looking at it, but that’s how little significance it has for me. And, while I certainly have never had a problem with anybody else studying it, I too find it, if not so much boring after the first several lectures of fire, brimstone, and God’s wrath, to be irrelavant. But, maybe it’s not. Maybe that’s where the Shrub got the model for his reign by terror-fear tactics. Just keeps everybody ducking and dodging from the next clap of thunder, even though we don’t know when or where it’s supposed to come. Just stay afraid.
Meantime, you’re right. It doesn’t have anything to do with anything that the rest of us are talking about, and the Elder has only succeeded in distracting us, albeit momentarily. So, we’ve now provided the charge he so desperately needed in his miserable little life, and so we have done our duty, and can now ignore him for the rest of the “term”.
Eventually, he’ll go away, even if it’s just to turn up somewhere else, until a new batch of folks figure out what the deal is.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 13, 2007 at 12:46 am #
#94353 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 5:54 pm: “...What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a good politician. It would seem we’re back to being critical which lacks correctness....”
What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a ‘bad’ politician? It would seem we’re back to being critical of Hillary Clinton as well....... which lacks correctness....!?!?
Who are you really going to vote for in the end???
Report thisBy Tony Wicher, August 12, 2007 at 8:30 pm #
#94304 by cyrena on 8/12 at 2:25 pm
“If it is not in the Old Testament, than I stand corrected.”
It’s in the New Testament, all right. Congratulations on not having read the Bible. I find it mostly boring myself. But what, I would like to know, has this got to do with the further weakening of our constitutional liberties abetted by cowardly Democrats? Couldn’t we just keep somewhat on topic and ignore those who keep dragging in their religious predilections?
Report thisBy farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 6:55 pm #
Yeah Earl, From your lips to Gods ear to quote my Jewish friend.
Report thisLots of luck with a losing battle. Your kind of talk was losing ground 5 years ago. Its gone over the cliff now.
But you keep right on denying reality. Unlike the Shrub, we don’t pass laws to stiffle folks opinions, we just enjoy a good laugh, with a touch of sorrow that any one could still believe that sort of stuff.
By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 6:54 pm #
“Where men build on false ground, the more they build the greater is the ruin.” Hobbes, Leviathon.
Calling George Walker Bush an able politician is perhaps the grandest lie ever posited on any web site anywhere. Any conclusions derived from such an enormously ridiculous belief falls of its own weight.
Upon what evidence I wonder does this possibly too old Elder advance this claim. Even staunch republicans are running not walking to distance themselves from this greatest of failures.
Bushs’ domestic policies are almost nonexistent. The jobs he boasts about creating are invariably lower in wage and benefits than those lost to outsourcing. Katrina victims still live in trailers that emit noxious gasses harmful to ones health. Returning veterans cannot get medical and psychiatric assistance. The middle class is shrinking faster than in any other time in our history, education is beyond the reach of far too many as is simple health care. The housing market is falling like a stone in a pond and Bush hasnt the iota of a clue as to what to do about any of it.
His foreign policies have alienated our staunchest allies, murdered 3500 of our children based on a callous and stupid lie. They have also energised the militant Islamists and created scores of bin Laden wannabees. We are in the greatest debt ever known to this nation, China and Russia threaten to devalue the dollar if we oppose them in any way and Bush clears brush on his ranch. Dennis Kucinich commented rather cleverly on this in the last debate when he noted that , as a child, he believed digging a deep enough hole would get him to China. “We’re there” he concluded.
The only reason Bush is not back in Crawford falling off his bicycle is because the Democratic Party is devoid of good and courageous leadership...the only reason!
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 5:54 pm #
#94347 by farmertx on 8/12 at 5:06 pm
(184 comments total)
#94342 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 4:47 pm
The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919)
Very apt quote, considering some of your praise for the Shrub.
_____________________________________________________
What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a good politician. It would seem we’re back to being critical which lacks correctness.
Report thisBy farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 5:06 pm #
#94342 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 4:47 pm
The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919)
Very apt quote, considering some of your praise for the Shrub.
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 4:47 pm #
cyrena
Save that for your KKK rallies.
_____________________________________________________
How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860
The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Report thisSir William Osler (1849 - 1919)
By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:25 pm #
#94274 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 1:05 pm
How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860
#94241 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 9:31 am
You have circled the wagons of thought and the Indians are attacking. Well hold on for the horseman are coming Rev.6:1-8, and Calvary (the way of the cross) is going to win.
===========================
No Elder, it isnt the least bit easy to be critical, though its certainly required, before one can be correct.
Meantime, I was responding to this message about the circling of the wagons. Now, correct me if Im wrong, (because I could be, and Im really not concerned enough to walk across the room and check this out myself) Does the above notation from your post Rev.6:1-8 NOT refer to the Book of Revelations? And, if it DOES refer to the Book of Revelations, is that chapter NOT in the Old Testament? If it is not in the Old Testament, than I stand corrected.
So, Ill repeat what I said before. I already know everything that I want to know about the Old Testament. I dont find anything useful in the Book of Revelations. I dont mind a bit, if you read and enjoy it. (I find it to be one of the most violent pieces of literature Ive ever read. Theres somebody getting stuck by lightening or being turned into stone, or washed away by floods, or roaming deserts for decades at a time, -on every other page - and it just doesnt sound like the same friendly God that I leaned about in Catholic school, so I pretty much avoid those Old Testament images of things.
THATS why I answered you the way that I did. Now, if you meant something else besides that, when you wrote Rev 6:1-8 or whatever it was, and if you DID mean that, but it somehow got moved to a different part of the book, or I never knew where it was to begin with, then I stand corrected.
I dont know who the Benjamin fellow is, and NO! PLEASE dont tell me. I honestly dont feel the need to know everything.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 1:43 pm #
#94256 by Frank Cajon on 8/12 at 11:15 am
I can see that you recognize the problem, but do you really have a realistic solution?
Yep Frank,
I do indeed recognize the problem. And, I can answer at least some of your questions about my own commitments. Im not gonna post a résumé of all of my activist credentials, since I would in fact like to maintain some measure of privacy, even if its illusionary, and just a nostalgic memory of how things used to be when the Constitution was in effect. Still, you can rest assured that as a product of the Civil Rights Movement, Ive definitely put in my time in the trenches, and I have continued to do so, which is why I no longer have a job. So, yes, I DO continue to be willing to involve myself in these patriotic duties, despite the fact that I am 1000 times more fearful of this enemy now, than I ever was back in the day, when my friends and colleagues were dropping like flies, being beaten, jailed, and the list goes on.
So, Ive earned my wings in that respect, and its also the reason why I do understand all of the real politick that you throw at me, about the composition of the house and the senate, and the fact that theres no real difference between dems and repugs, and on and on. Yeah I know ALL of those realities, even better than I knew the realities of the racism that existed so blatantly as recently as 30 years ago, and still is sometimes barely hidden under the surface even now.
And I remember from those times, the overwhelming concept of actually breaking with that long established institution racism and the products thereof- segregation and horrific inequalities. And I remember that MLK was a young kid then, just barely out of the Seminary, and they kept telling him, (liberal white folks and black ones alike), that the TIME just wasnt RIGHT for his movement. They kept telling him that he needed to wait for this. That it would take a while to bring people around to this whole idea of accepting black people as equal humans. And, he said NO! No, we cannot wait. Its been 200 years. If not NOW then WHEN?
And so, they marched. And they boycotted. And they demonstrated. And they were beaten and bloodied. Shoot dead like the dogs that were set upon them. They got hosed down with fire hoses at the orders of the Governor. Leaders and organizers were routinely assassinated. But, they couldnt wait. Thank God they didnt. Thank God they had some guts and some courage. So, I rest my case on that.
As for the general strike. If I didnt say so before, I believe its an excellent idea. The only problem I see with it, is that its no more realistic to expect to organize a country of 300 million people scattered all over a continent, than it is to pressure 535 members of Congress into doing the right thing. That doesnt mean I dont think its a good idea, but then Ive never been one to approach such a situation with only ONE tactic. So, if you can work up a general strike, Im with you.
And yeah, youre right that its late. Not 2 years late, but 6 years late. And so .we could just wait, as they told Martin he should do. But, Ive never been patient when it comes to this stuff.
So, while I wouldnt expect a massive rush on Congress in 2007 to be as bloody as some of the same efforts of decades past, that doesnt mean it couldnt happen. (we see that the 1,800 people who were arrested at the 2004 Repug convention are STILL working through the system on that, and they were PEACEFUL. So know, I dont expect an easy victory. If I thought that the dems were gonna do something on their own, they have since proved otherwise. So, its time to put a LOT of pressure on them. How badly do they wanna keep THEIR jobs? Thats probably far more important than whether or not every single body that is fortunate enough to HAVE a job, is willing to take a day off to do a general strike. (since it would have to be far more than a day off).
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 1:05 pm #
#94247 by cyrena on 8/12 at 10:02 am
(767 comments total)
As for the Old Testament, I have no use for it. Save that for your KKK rallies.
_____________________________________________________
How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Report thisBenjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860
By farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 11:42 am #
#94256 by Frank Cajon on 8/12 at 11:15 am
(51 comments total)
Frank, I can see your point.
Report thisMyself, living in East Texas, I have very few chances to get involved in any protests. There just aren’t that many folks opposed enough to the Shrub around here to protest.
There are some R’s that wish they had never heard of him now, but they ain’t about to protest.
If you know of anything happening around the Dallas area, I’d be happy to show up.
Meantime, I keep emailing my congress critter’s, knowing all the while that because there is no check enclosed, it gets little attention. But over time, hopefully, the volume will keep growing and cause one or more to wake up.
By Frank Cajon, August 12, 2007 at 11:15 am #
Cyrena: Okay so it’s ‘get with the program/stop whining or STFU’. I am glad you seem to have the impeachment conviction all worked out and the Senate votes in the bag. I can breathe easier now. I was worried, since the ‘opposition’ candidates all, except for Kucinich, went on the record last night with plans to keep us mired in Iraq till it is an ice rink. That and the fact that this impeachment you seem to feel is just around the corner is two years overdue. REALITY CHECK: There are too many DC insiders in the House and Senate to oust Bush/Cheney. The reason that the Emporer has been able to run the longest war in our history, pillage the Constitution, and pack the SC with Neocon fanatics is because of the composition of both Houses. The 2006 election changed a few faces but the Democrats get their support from the same deep pockets as the GOP. Get with what program? There isn’t one. If you read my blogs, you will see that I don’t just complain, I call for a national strike, and I have sent letters and made phone calls to the offices of the Congressmen, Senators, and State legislators from my state threatening to do this. Just like with the ‘antiwar’ movement, there aren’t enough Americans who give a damn to get off their asses and take to the streets. This worked in the last antiwar movement. Now, though I can no longer march, I can still demonstrate, and I do, on wheels. Usually with about 100 others, every time Bush/Cheney make an appearance in my hometown, and whenever there is a pro-war demonstration. Spare me the ‘get with the program’, are you willing to take a day off work and go to the Federal building with a sign and march in protest of Bush/Cheney with as many of your freinds as you can gather? Or are you waiting to be delivered from bondage by this heroic Congress that is going to miraculously step in and impeach and convict both of these dicatators in between sessions during which they pass legislation to give them $2 billion a day to kill Americans and Iraqis and use the Bill of Rights for asswipe? I can see that you recognize the problem, but do you really have a realistic solution?
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 10:02 am #
#94241 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 9:31 am
With that said, Bush is a good politicain and knows how to use his knowledge to keep overly open minded people at bay, or check, or under control, or limited, or etc....
++++++++++++++++++++++
Ya know Elder,
If this were in fact true, (that the shrub is a good politician (with knowledge) to keep people “at bay” or “under control”, or “limited” or whatever else, then all hell wouldn’t be breaking loose, now would it?
Sorry, but the shrub is a moron, and a psychopath to boot. He is without knowledge, and the most effective he has ever been at any job, was as a mascot/cheerleader at Yale.
Granted, any president has to be a “cheerleader” of sorts. But a president also has to be a Statesperson. George is not, and can never be. He’s simply too stupid, and has no principles or integrity. None. He’s a shell. It’s that simple. Let’s not pretend that there’s anything more to it than that.
Cheney runs the country, with the help of his lawyers, and all the others follow his orders. Period. Dot. End of conversation.
As for the Old Testament, I have no use for it. Save that for your KKK rallies.
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 9:31 am #
cyrena,
In the multiplicity of words a though can be lost when written in the ambiance of text. For example you explaining what I meant. I do not consider people in your enlightening term as the Shrub species.
Plus, I like to keep things in code just to see what rational the literary giants will spin commsense into.
Here is a another simple code for literary giants who take simplicity and trash it for intellectually honors.
You have circled the wagons of thought and the Indians are attacking. Well hold on for the horseman are coming Rev.6:1-8, and Calvary (the way of the cross) is going to win.
With that said, Bush is a good politicain and knows how to use his knowledge to keep overly open minded people at bay, or check, or under control, or limited, or etc....
Report thisBy Mariam Russell, August 12, 2007 at 8:30 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Ms Pelosi needs to be replaced by Cindy Sheehan.
Ron Paul is Libertarian.
Report thisLibertarians are people who do not have the courage to call themselves Conservatives and accept the self image that goes with it.
By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 8:00 am #
#94033 by Jeanine Molloff on 8/11 at 1:30 pm
Please dont shout at us....thank you.
Report thisBy ardee, August 12, 2007 at 7:58 am #
#94006 by atheo on 8/11 at 11:30 am
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/about/
I would suggest that this forum use the link, ponder the words and see if you are as comfortable with Paul as is atheo......As to welfare, Pauls statement that he never votes for legislation not expressly defined in the constitution rules out an awful lot of necesary stuff.
You might, in the interest of self discovery also search for and think about the politics of libertarianism and see if that is truly what you want, it isnt what I want. I do like Paul instinctively, as an honest man, but even honest folks can be wrong.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:14 am #
#94117 by Elder Earl on 8/11 at 7:36 pm
(35 comments total)
Jeanine Molloff,
I guess it was over looked but here is why there will be no impeachment. G.W. Bush is a politician and a good politician knows what is in the closet of all the other political figures that are around him. So before the politicians cries impeachment, it becomes important that he knows his own heart, as to its own purity.
Hey Elder,
It wasnt overlooked. Actually read the other explanation that you addressed to Louise. Since you were speaking in code for the swamp mentality claimed by all politicians of the Shrub species, the others either didnt pick up on it, or chose to ignore you, which seems to be the best route on boards like this.
Still, I think I can translate for you, what you mean, in a way that the other contributors might have missed. What youre saying is that ALL of your favorite buds in the administration, are in the swamp together, and theyve all got something on each other. That was apparently your point with the neighbors and you dealing drugs. If YOU know that Mr and Mrs Jones next door have the same boyfriend, (but they dont know it themselves), how can either of them say anything when the boyfriend buys their drugs from you? So in other words, each one of them is even slimier than the next, and none will rat out the other, because it means suicide for them.
This is of course, the common mentality that motivates them all, with very few exceptions. And guess what? We already know that, which is why they ALL have to go, and the fallout is very near.
Unless you’ve got one of those “pure hearts”, it might just be time to run for cover.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 1:58 am #
PS FC,
Nobody in the impeachment camp is talking about impeaching bush alone. That’s why it was never considered before. The obvious result, (at least according to the rule book) is that we would have been stuck with the devil himself, instead of just his puppet.
That is all very passe’. Cheney is at the top of the impeachment list, but for those who are serious about this, the overall operation would impeach the entire administration.
And yes. It’s doable.
Read or watch the link that Louise posted earlier on the post for details.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 1:25 am #
#94030 by Frank Cajon on 8/11 at 1:15 pm
Cyrena: If you think this Congress is going to Impeach Bush and Cheney (remember, impeaching Bush alone is pointless, Cheney is smarter and more ruthless, and just as corrupt), I recommend you consider a few things
Actually Frank,
Ive considered all of these things, and Ive BEEN considering them, as they occur. Things have become thoroughly mucked-up, well beyond anything that even the most realistic and pragmatic among us, could EVER have anticipated. I know all of that. I understand your anger and all of the rage, because Ive been there and done it, having predicted most of this stuff, long before it happened, and yet been forced to stand by, (powerlessly) and watch while it did.
So, youre preaching to the choir with all of the doom and gloom, because many of us have watched with the same feelings of hopelessness. So, you can keep bitching, about what will never happen, or you can help make it happen. Theres really no time now, for the luxury of whining. I know perfectly well how ruthless and dangerous Dick Cheney is. I knew it 2 decades ago, and I knew it when mindless idiots were running around places like Texas, singing the praises of George Bush, even though most of them didnt have a clue to who the secretive satan was, and he has ALWAYS done his deeds in the utmost of secrecy. So, you dont have to tell me how dangerous dick cheney is.
But guess what? Theres HIM, as well as his Secret Cabal, (without whom he could not operate) and then there are THE REST OF US. He and his operatives have ALWAYS had their agenda. This is not new. Now that some of the sheeple are awakening to this agenda, we realize that it is NOT to our advantage, and so we know that it is time to insist on our OWN agenda.
No one expects dick cheney or george bush to step down. Youre right. That will not happen. No, they will have to be TAKEN DOWN, which is what our Constitution provides for. And, I suspect that at least chainsaw dick, surely knows that its coming, and is trying to play it out for all he can squeeze from it, until that last escape trip, that takes him over the horizon, to his new digs in Dubai.
So, we are now collectively at that fight or flee moment, when we simply disregard all of the doom and gloom of the real politick that you provide in all of your negativity, and decide to fight back. And, there are far more of US, than there are of THEM. So, if it means bringing down the whole house, we are prepared to do that, and we have this excellent guide book/instruction manual, that shows us exactly how to do it.
You have the option of either getting with the program, or you can STFU!!
Bush/Cheney, even if convicted of impeachable offenses, are not going to step down, by the way. They are in it for the long haul. They are the first American dictators and they arent going to let some sniveling Judiciary committee prevent them from defending us from the terrorists who want to take away our freedom.
The only terrorists bent on taking away our freedoms are the dictators youve just described. And in the end, WE will take them down, if it means replacing all of them.
You dont have to help if you dont want to. But at least dont stand in the way of the rest of us who have work to do.
Besides, Im not afraid of dick cheney, and Im a hell a better shot than he is too!!
Report thisBy THOMAS BILLIS, August 12, 2007 at 12:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Please you people who think that the democats will impeach please put down the appletini and get a grip on reality.The chimp is at 30% and the democrats cannot win one major legislative battle vs the chimp.For the first time in history the chimp is playing the organ and the democrats are dancing for bannanas.Republicans you better watch out if you do not behave the democrats may make you stay up all night.It is getting so depressing their is not anyone in the leadership of either party who puts country over party.You can put 1 million emails on Nancy Pelosi’s web site and it will not accomplish athing.Put one million people in Washington with all the news coverage and you will get action.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 12:00 am #
#94006 by atheo on 8/11 at 11:30 am
(364 comments total)
Ardee,
You are mischaracterising Pauls positions. In fact he has stated that although he would not have created some programs as they exist, due to the fact that Americans rely on them, he will not change them. These suggestions that he would radically alter existing programs do not come from his campaign or him.
Atheo,
Ive mentioned this before, and admittedly, I never had the evidence that Ardee has presented here, regarding the Ron Paul agenda. Rather, I have based my so far cautious feelings regarding Ron Paul, on what is more gut instinct, and a long standing understanding of how politics works, in different areas of the country. I dont like using that term, gut instinct, if only because the occupiers have used it, to show just how efficiently they can totally DESTROY a society. Having been ruled by the gut of George W and others for the past 7 years has proven to be disastrous, as anyone who hasnt been in a coma can appreciate.
At the same time however, concepts such as intuition or gut instinct do take on significance when they can be defined in terms of mixing common wisdom, experience, and a close observance of what goes on over time, and in trends, to get a general view of something that cannot always be defined in empirical statistics. Such as it is with Ron Paul, and to an extent, ALL politicians. I think Louise made an important point, when she noted the difference between a STATESMAN, and a politician. We need leaders who are STATESMEN/WOMEN FIRST, and politicians second. Ron Paul is not that, and I cant think of many politicians in the history of Texas politics, who HAVE been.
Im afraid that dooms Ron Paul, at least for the next few decades. Call it an irrational form of profiling at its worst, if you want to. But as far as Im concerned, we should avoid putting ANYBODY from Texas, in ANY positions of high leadership, for the next several years. Might as well throw in Florida politicians as well. Of course they should maintain their representation within the Congress, but I dont want to see another Texan in the Executive or Judicial branches of our government for at least a decade. For far too long that populace has behaved like a state within a state, with its own laws that are generally not in keeping with the rest of the country. While this might not be dangerous as long as this influence is contained, it becomes disastrous when these types influence the entire national policy.
So, while Ron Paul may be harmless enough, this isnt the time to take on another radical agenda. We just have to get back to the one that worked before.
Also, Ron Paul isnt the least bit kidding about eliminating the welfare state. Texas long ago eliminated that sort of State aid. It simply doesnt exist. They began cutting it over 20 years ago, by simply eliminating it, at least at the state level, and they dont participate in the federal programs that administer such aid either. Such as aid for dependent children, or any of those programs that might make a dent in some of the most abject poverty. Its critical to note that Texas is one of only 3 States in the nation, that does NOT collect a state income tax from its citizens. This is very convenient for the corps that have become our government, like the Oil/Energy industry..ie, Halliburton, Exxon-Mobile, etc. These folks dont want to pay state income taxes, and it is from those taxes, that most of the social welfare programs are funded. Since they dont have those funds, they dont provide those services. Makes for a difficult life for the have nots-, and their numbers are growing.
So, there can be a place on the back burner for Ron Paul, but not in a policy making capacity.
Report thisIt’s just not a “luxury” we can afford. We need a “change”, but not a loose cannon.
By Frank Cajon, August 11, 2007 at 9:46 pm #
Jeannine Moloff 94033: Lots of good talking points. My question: what House and what Senate is going to do all these impeachment trials and repeal all these fascist laws? The one that is in there is pretty much the one that put them into law, and backs the play or our dictators? When I hear about a move to ‘censure’ the prez for some abuse of power he doesn’t legally have, or Pelosi unwilling to go up against the Fuhrer in his bunker, I lay the blame on these spineless bureaucrats who are nothing but Republicans with different Skull society code names and as much a part of the problem as the High Command. It is as much the electorate’s fault for putting these fools in as it is their fault that they have no spines or gonads. If there was a chance that they were going to rid us of them, they would have started by uniting in opposition to the troop surge and refusing the $100 billion in funding. Istead, the standard token opposition that was for show and fell apart after all the cute rhetoric. The fact is: OUR LEGISLATORS HAVE ABANDONED US AND WILL NOT SAVE THE CONSTITUTION FROM THESE FASCISTS. My position, made before, is a general strike, followed by another, until the voice of the people is no longer ignored. Then, one election at a time, be rid of all of these jellyfish who supported the Bush/Cheney Reich, their blitzkrieg, and their SS erasing the Bill of Rights. It may take a generation, it may take some grassroots rebuilding of the Democratic or Green party, but the sooner we start the sooner we will see some results, assuming dictatorship doesn’t occur first.
Report thisBy hazmaq, August 11, 2007 at 8:20 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Not to change the subject but did everyone also hear about another little mickey slipped into the last Defense Auth. Bill of 2007 that moves Bush closer to marital law and other manuevers.
The excuse last time was because of a Republican Congress.
It got through again, under Democrats.
Report thisBy Elder Earl, August 11, 2007 at 7:36 pm #
Jeanine Molloff,
I guess it was over looked but here is why there will be no impeachment. G.W. Bush is a politician and a good politician knows what is in the closet of all the other political figures that are around him. So before the politicians cries impeachment, it becomes important that he knows his own heart, as to its own purity.
Report thisBy atheo, August 11, 2007 at 6:06 pm #
August 11, 2007
Ron Paul Iowa Straw Poll Speech
Rat Says: This clip just in from the Iowa Straw Poll in Ames. By far the most powerful speech of the day along with the loudest, most demonstrative crowd!!! This could be Ron Pauls best political speech so far.
http://rattube.com/blog1/2007/08/11/ron-paul-iowa-stra w-poll-speech/
Register Republican and make your vote count.
Report thisBy atheo, August 11, 2007 at 3:56 pm #
Why not force fascists to vote against impeachment so that the electorate can identify them?
Report thisBy Jeanine Molloff, August 11, 2007 at 1:30 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Impeachment MUST happen. IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST; THEN SHRUB, THEN GONZALES. AFTER THAT PROCEDURE; PREPARE CRIMINAL CHARGES OF TREASON AGAINST ALL THREE, AND TELEVISE THE PROCEEDINGS WORLDWIDE. PELOSI HAS NO RIGHT TO DECIDE UNILATERALLY THAT ‘IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE.’ THE FACT THAT CONGRESS DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION IS IRRELEVANT--THEY STILL MUST FOLLOW IT. TIME TO MARCH ON DC AGAIN. TIME TO PICKET CONGRESSIONAL OFFICES AND CONGRESSMEN’S HOMES. TIME TO OSTRACISE THEIR FAMILIES. MAKE THEM FEEL THE HURT. TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR RIGHTS. DON’T FEEBLY ASK FOR OUR RIGHTS--TAKE THEM BACK! DON’T MAKE EXCUSES FOR ANYONE. TIME FOR AN ALL OUT ASSAULT ON OUR TREASONOUS CONGRESS! TOO MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARGUE THAT THEY CAN EITHER FIGHT TO REESTABLISH THE BILL OF RIGHTS OR TAKE CARE OF DAILY BUSINESS, AS IF THIS WERE AN EITHER...OR PROPOSITION. IT IS NOT. THEY MUST DO BOTH! REPEAL PATRIOT I & II, MILITARY COMMISSIONS, WARNER AUTHORIZATION, ANIMAL TERRORISM BILL, HSPD & NSPD 20 & 51 AND CHANGES MADE TO THE HISTORICAL POSSE COMITATUS BILL. THIS IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO REGAIN OUR RIGHTS. BY REPEALING THESE INTOLERABLE ACTS; GONZALES, BUSH & CHENEY LOSE ALL THE POWER THEY IMMORALLY STOLE. VOTING TO REPEAL THESE ACTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY IS A SIMPLE PROCESS. AS FOR THE TERRORISTS; NOTHING IN THESE BILLS PROTECTS ANYONE FROM GUERRILLA WARFARE. BETTER PROTECTION IS AVAILABLE BY FORCING THE CORPORATE ENTITIES RUNNING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE TO SAFEGUARD THE SAME. FUNNEL THE CONCERN TO PROTECTING POTENTIAL TARGETS LIKE OUR FOOD CHAIN, WATER SUPPLY, NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, POWER GRID, COMMUNICATIONS GRID, PORTS, ETC. SPYING ON FOLKS DOES NOT GIVE SECURITY; THOUGH THIS MAY THE ONLY WAY CHENEY CAN GET ANY JOLLIES. DEMAND THAT CONGRESS REPEAL ALL THE LEGISLATIVE POWER THEFTS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION. DEMAND THAT CONGRESS IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST, THEN BUSH, THEN GONZALES. DEMAND A RETURN TO CONSTITUTIONAL RULE. IF NOT; RECALL EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS. YES, IT CAN BE DONE. CONTACT BRUCE FEIN. HE KNOWS HOW.
SIGN ME,
Report thisREADY TO RUN FOR OVAL OFFICE MYSELF
By Frank Cajon, August 11, 2007 at 1:15 pm #
Cyrena: If you think this Congress is going to Impeach Bush and Cheney (remember, impeaching Bush alone is pointless, Cheney is smarter and more ruthless, and just as corrupt), I recommend you consider a few things. This congress doesn’t have enough votes to overturn a veto of the Iraq slaughter funds. They gave Bush/Cheney no battle at all in this latest wiretapping of phones without warrants. An impeachment trial conviction requires a 2/3 majority vote of the Senate. Both of these bastards deserve to be brought to trial for their crimes but I have been around a long time and predict it won’t happen. For one thing, as bad as these Fascists are, a majority of Americans don’t necessarily support their removal by impeachment-which is disgusting but true. If the articles are put forward, the Senate will fail to get rid of them and they will become martyrs, the victim of (to use your term applied to Clinton, a partisan witch hunt). By the way, Clinton was a felon. He committed perjury in a Congressional investigation and obstructed justice. It may have been a partisan witch hunt, but if I had been on a jury, I would have sent him to to prison. He broke the law, just like Bush/Cheney have; on a much more insignificant set of circumstances, to be sure, but he deserved to be removed from office. Bush/Cheney, even if convicted of impeachable offenses, are not going to step down, by the way. They are in it for the long haul. They are the first American dictators and they aren’t going to let some sniveling Judiciary committee prevent them from defending us from the terrorists who want to take away our freedom.
Report thisBy farmertx, August 11, 2007 at 12:42 pm #
ardee
Report thisThat (privatizing SS) is but one of the reason’s I am leery of him.
However. politician’s have been known to change their positions.
There is no one group that I see that offers a viable alternative to the status quo.
But, I keep looking and listening.
By felicity, August 11, 2007 at 12:32 pm #
Louise, I was taken aback when Nichols, or Fein (can’t remember) said that ‘impeachment’ is mentioned 6 times in the Constitution - which by the way doesn’t mentio