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Democrats Punt on National Security

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Posted on Aug 10, 2007

By E.J. Dionne, Jr.

WASHINGTON—Shortly before noon last Saturday, about 20 House Democrats huddled in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office to decide what to do about a surveillance bill that had been dumped on them by the Senate before it left town.

    Many of the Democrats were furious. They believed they had negotiated in good faith with Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence. They sought to give the Bush administration the authority it needed to intercept communications involving foreign nationals in terrorism investigations while preserving some oversight. 

    But the administration held out for granting McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales more power while seriously circumscribing the role of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The Senate’s Democratic leadership, lacking the votes to pass a measure more to the House’s liking, gave the administration what it wanted.

    At one point, according to participants in the meeting, the passionate discussion veered toward the idea of standing up to the administration—even at the risk of handing President Bush a chance to bash Democrats on “national security,” as is his wont.

    Several members from swing districts—including Reps. Heath Shuler of North Carolina and Patrick Murphy of Pennsylvania—expressed openness to having Congress stay in town to fight if important constitutional issues were at stake.

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    But the moment passed. Even some very liberal Democrats worried about the political costs of blocking action before the summer recess. That Saturday night, the House sent the president a bill that, as a disgusted Rep. David Wu, D-Ore., put it, with a touch of exaggeration, “makes Alberto Gonzalez the sheriff, the judge and the jury.”

    Most Democrats opposed the bill, but 41 (including Shuler) voted “yes,” allowing it to pass. (Murphy remained passionately opposed.)

    The one Democratic victory: The legislation expires in six months, meaning the debate will resume this fall. But Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., warned his colleagues that “when you give up your rights under the Constitution, it is not likely you are going to regain them.”

    The episode was the culmination of a shameful era in which serious issues related to national security and civil liberties were debated in a climate of fear and intimidation, saturated by political calculation and the quest for short-term electoral advantage.

    Politically, Republicans won this round in two ways. They got the president the bill he wanted, and that created absolute fury in the Democratic base. Pelosi has received more than 200,000 e-mails of protest, according to an aide, for letting the bill go forward.

    Democrats concede they made an enormous tactical blunder by not dealing with the issue earlier, forcing the question to the fore in the days before the recess. One anxiety hovered over the debate: If a terrorist attack happened, and if Congress had not given Bush what he wanted, the Democrats would get blamed for a lack of vigilance.

    “Could something happen over August?” asked Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., in an interview. “Sure it could. What bothered me is that too many Democrats allowed that fear to turn into a demand for some atrocious legislation.”

    The saga also underscored how constrained congressional Democrats feel because of their tenuous majority in the Senate. Had the Senate sent the House an alternative bill, sponsored by Sens. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., the two houses could have put a more limited proposal on the president’s desk and challenged him to veto it. But the Levin-Rockefeller proposal failed.

    McConnell, in the meantime, played an ambiguous role. Democrats acknowledge that the intelligence director never explicitly agreed to the House leadership’s proposal. But their fears that McConnell was not calling the shots were stoked when Democratic leaders tried at one point to reach him by phone. An assistant to McConnell let slip that the intelligence director could not pick up because he was on the line with the White House. It was another sign, said a top Democratic aide, that “the White House was driving the train on this.”

    The entire display was disgraceful because an issue of such import should not be debated in a political pressure cooker. It’s not even clear that new legislation was required; Holt, for one, believes many of the problems with handling interceptions involving foreign nationals are administrative in nature, and that beefing up and reorganizing the staff around the FISA court might solve the outstanding problems. 

    But if legislation was needed, there were many ways to grant necessary authority while preserving real oversight. The Democrats got trapped, and they punted. The Republicans have never met a national security issue they’re not willing to politicize. This is no way to run a superpower.   

    E.J. Dionne’s e-mail address is postchat(at)aol.com.   

    © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group


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By atheo, August 20, 2007 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

Tony,

TONY didn’t Kucinich support Kerry??? C’mon now.

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By Tony Wicher, August 20, 2007 at 9:37 am Link to this comment

Re #95892 by atheo on 8/19 at 9:29 am

atheo, Zena:

I would like to see a Kucinich-Paul bipartisan peace ticket. I sure don’t agree with atheo about Kucinich. He is by far the most peace-oriented and principled of any candidate. His record of public service is sparkling; he has been more right on more issues by far than any other candidate. His election would signify a second, peaceful American revolution. It’s probably not going to happen, but we can at least pray for it. If our prayers are not answered, and Obama, Clinton or Edwards runs against Romney or Guiliani, I will vote for the Democrat without hesitation.

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By Zena, August 20, 2007 at 1:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

atheo ; I believe you are totally trying to confuse the issues. It’s the Republicans who want to nuke everyone, knock every woman up and watch them starve. Reserve health care for the rich, and rob the poor to give to the rich. And if that’s what paul stands for, I reject it just as much as I would the works of the devil. Oh, but I forget. You repubs don’t believe in the devil but you say GOD gave all the riches to the rich men….hmmmmm, somethings wrong with this picture. Democrats are for everybody. Or at least is supposed to be. Any Democrat who acts otherwise is a lying Republican. And we know just how ‘ammoral’ they are now. What’s ur problem? People won’t suck up ur scum no more? The Devil is a great accuser. And u must make the big bucks. Bite me. “Do not answer a fool in his folly.” The Bible.

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By atheo, August 19, 2007 at 10:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Zena,

Do you not consider the dims racist? Their “major” candidates want to invade Pakistan and or nuke Iran. I’d take a Ron Paul presidency, complete with states rights, before voting dim. I’ll guarantee you one thing, after the primaries Kucinich will back these genocidal warmongers, something Paul won’t do, Paul does stand a better chance of getting the nomination to boot.

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By Zena, August 18, 2007 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tsk, tsk, tsk; atheo, don’t go putting words in my mouth, although this is something I will have to consider….I didn’t say the state GOV blew up the Murrah building, but I find it interesting that you took it that way. You must be a republican propagandist. GOOD WORK! I’ve never seen such writing skill in my life. But in the south, we have MANY rascist states. You’d put such power in the hands of petty-minded, stingy, Republican, constituion-shredding little men? And for my mind, I’d like to know if Ron Paul would too….?

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By atheo, August 16, 2007 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

Federations of diverse provinces or cantons are usually successful. Canada and Switzerland come to mind. I don’t know that the State of Oklahoma is any more responsible for the murrah bombing than the Feds. I don’t think a state militia would likely engage in foreign adventures to the extent of our current regime, no matter how racist or fundamentalist. As Ron Paul says, if you cut the pentagon budget by 50% and eliminated corporate wellfare, you wouldn’t need a national income tax.

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By Zena, August 16, 2007 at 6:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

atheo, thXs for ur comments. You have a point and it may be true, but what would that look like? My state is about as corrupt as the Bush administration who by the way had a lot of supporters here in Okla. But they had already blown up the Murrah building to make the people here fear them. Wouldn’t it just cause them to go into the mercenary war business? Wouldn’t they just be renting them out so to speak? This state government wants to give ALL the programs over to the churches and believe me, there are some pretty snity ones here. Plz, describe how this would work. I’m all ears.

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By atheo, August 16, 2007 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

Zena,

I’m not a fan of Freedom to Fascism, but their message is not anarchy but constitutional rule of law. Believe it or not the US has functioned through most of it’s history without taxing labor. Think about it, why discourage labor? Taxation of capital gains, excise taxes, and import tariffs are all constitutional. Technically, taxing labor is illegal in the US, though the courts have a way of not recognising it. If we relied more on State militias for defense, we wouldn’t have bases all over the globe.

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By Skruff, August 16, 2007 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#95502 by Zena on 8/16 at 1:30 pm
(”...the fact of the matter is that state gov. have become almost as corrupt as the fed. And in fact, some of the fed’s powers were expanded when state governments started disobeying or ignoring federal and constitutional laws against the people.”

Maybe, but the corruption depends on which state, AND at the state level it is easier for the people to get involved.  $400,000,000 to run for president successfully in 2008. Governor Baldacci paid 1.7 million to get his state job.  As to ignoring Federal and Constitutional laws, the Feds seem to be better at that than even George Wallace!

As a people we have already been split up by agitators and secret socities and think-tanks. Don’t you think that it would be better to unite the people and not further destroy our unity?

I am not sure there is a way to “further destroy our unity” as I do npot see any!  New England has not executed a prisoner since 1976, and there is no big push to get a death penalty here.  We vote Democratic at the National level, and Maine has not picked a winning presidential candidate since Reagan.  On any issue from abortion to gay rights we are more liberal, and less “structured” than solidly red Virginia which has picked the winning candidate in 8 out of the last 10 elections.

I’m not sure Maine citizens have anything in common with citizens of Virginia other than a semi-common language I do not know that I believe in the USA anymore.  Regional areas four or five seem like a better idea.

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By Zena, August 16, 2007 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Great comments Skruff; but the fact of the matter is that state gov. have become almost as corrupt as the fed. And in fact, some of the fed’s powers were expanded when state governments started disobeying or ignoring federal and constitutional laws against the people. Oh wouldn’t our state reps luV that! As a people we have already been split up by agitators and secret socities and think-tanks. Don’t you think that it would be better to unite the people and not further destroy our unity? After all, we have gangs, churches, other social structures that all rather keep to themselves and are often a santuary from the lawless outside the groups. And that’s not counting the rascists groups. What I’d like to see is someone come up with some graphs and figures on the federal government and where the money is going. Along with this request: show me the laws. My own state gov. hides certain laws and such from the people in order to accomplish their private agendas. They are supposed to be writing their bills at an eighth-grade level so the general populace can understand them but more often than not, they don’t and we don’t even get to read them before they pass them into law. What gives politicians the right to pass laws on their own in the first place, when the people are supposed to be informed of such things in the first place at the very least? They say ignorance of the law is not excuse, but it is when it is hidden from the people! They’ve created a labyrinth of gov. offices it takes at least a day to find one that you’ve never been to before. Deliberate or not? The state has long practiced unaccountabilty. Now which way do we go?

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By CitizenDefender, August 16, 2007 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

“SIGN THE PETITION” FROM THE A.C.L.U.
 
“Senator Reid and Speaker Pelosi,

You crossed the line and played right into the hands of President Bush and rewarded his lawless behavior last week when you allowed the FISA bills to go through Congress, giving the President and his administration more power to invade our privacy and ignore our Constitutional rights. “

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Dont_Fail_Freedom_petition


PRINTABLE PDF OF PELOSI AND REID AS SHEEP

http://action.aclu.org/site/DocServer/BAAAD_ad.pdf?docID=1541&JServSessionIdr005=dtxlr2x3n3.app25a

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 16, 2007 at 6:33 am Link to this comment

#95307 by Zena on 8/15 at 11:06 pm: “...Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure…”

Whether or not you have the answer, Zena, you already have the clue. Anarchy is not a productive path and revolution by overthrow of an elected government, in short, is not good karma. Of course, the last time there was an unelected government in the USA was back in 2000 but everybody was asleep then.

Well, a lot has changed since then, hasn’t it? Perhaps people are a little more awake now. Its a little late, though. First, people have to be willing to make positive changes within themselves and take responsibility for their own lives. They don’t do this - and they give over rulership of their lives to whoever comes along, be it a spouse or a politician.

Change happens from within. That applies to individuals as well as to governments and countries. See how hard it has been for Pelosi and the new wave of Democrats. Even though they have not been in ascendancy long, voters still lazily expect everything of them and do nothing more than carp and whine themselves. It is not enough!

For a country which has already had one civil war, American citizens are unbelievably both blind and inept at politics. In other words, they are asleep. Like the lemmings, when they eventually plunge over the cliff, they will not be missed by history. Still, that is said to be a misconception so there may yet be a chance, ha ha! Wouldn’t want to keep on risking an easy one, though….....

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By Skruff, August 16, 2007 at 5:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

95307 by Zena on 8/15 at 9:06 pm

“Yes, Douglas I’ve seen this vid and others. Shall we dissolve the American gov.? Isn’t that what they want? If we stopped paying taxes, would they kill us or just gleefully destroy and dissolve our gov. ourselves and not have to hear how they are breaking the law? Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure?”

Actually Zena would it be 100% negative to disband Federal government?  I suppose that the idea that citizens can not survive without some type of oppressive yoke is deeply ingrained in American folk lore, but could a localized government be more useful and less repressive?

How about cutting the nation into four or five pieces held together by a loose confederation of regions.  It is obvious from the voting map, that this is at least two seperate and very differen nations dispite our common government.

Do we have to do an Iraq to disengage?  or can we do it in an orderly and peaceful fashion?

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By Zena, August 15, 2007 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, Douglas I’ve seen this vid and others. Shall we dissolve the American gov.? Isn’t that what they want? If we stopped paying taxes, would they kill us or just gleefully destroy and dissolve our gov. ourselves and not have to hear how they are breaking the law? Without our gov. and laws, it will be pure anarchy. Is there a way we can do that and preserve our governmental structure?

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 15, 2007 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

#95267 by Zena on 8/15 at 5:39 pm: “...We should dissolve Homeland security and set up something else. The heads of it should be tried for treason to failure to protect us from the threats to our nation and our people from the South….”


“America: Freedom to Fascism” - Director’s Authorized Version http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 1 hr 51 min http://www.freedomtofascism.com

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By Zena, August 15, 2007 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We should dissolve Homeland security and set up something else. The heads of it should be tried for treason to failure to protect us from the threats to our nation and our people from the South. They almost have enough here to kill us all, you incompetent boobs. Have you never read ANYTHING about war???

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By Elder Earl, August 14, 2007 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

#94753 by purplewolf on 8/13 at 11:23 pm
(36 comments total)

# 94609 Artist General
I really loved your rendition of “Set it Free”. Awesome!

Elder Earl take your lithium stat.

_____________________________________________________

Since I’ve started writing in this menagerie, the doc has increase my dose of lithium to a 1000mg…lol

Report this

By purplewolf, August 14, 2007 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

# 94609 Artist General
I really loved your rendition of “Set it Free”. Awesome!

Elder Earl take your lithium stat.

Report this

By Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 10:26 pm Link to this comment

#94560 by ardee on 8/13 at 10:22 am
(456 comments total)

Earl mumbles, after the drugs kick in no doubt:

The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about.  They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.

Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

aside from the obvious misplaced large ego noted, it would seem that Earl and Bush are masters of the malaprop, what else do they have in common I wonder? Possibly the drugs…...by the by, bold face is my highlighting…..
_____________________________________________________

Thanks for the correction.  I did forget to take my medication.  I am going to get it now….

The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about.  They may not have no back bone or is their closet FULL of things their do not want exposed.

Bush STOOD up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

Report this

By Douglas Chalmers, August 13, 2007 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment

Quote E.J. Dionne, Jr., Columnist: “Could something happen over August?” asked Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., in an interview. “Sure it could. What bothered me is that too many Democrats allowed that fear to turn into a demand for some atrocious legislation…....”

Something is happening over August - in Sydney, Australia. This is a new global security agenda which sees armed forces co-operating directly with each other instead of facing each other on the battlefieds. So, what are they really up to???

Quote: International army chiefs attend secret Sydney meeting - “A secret meeting was held in Sydney last week between the chiefs of armies from around the world, including the US, Japan and Indonesia. ......The ABC has revealed that the chiefs of army from 19 countries met in secret in Sydney last week….

“What we’ve all agreed ....is that we need to look at the methods of education and how we prepare our individuals for the uncertainty of these complex environments that we are headed into.” .......the chiefs discussed the way in which military operations are becoming more complex, with an increase in peacekeeping and counter-terrorism duties. ......They also examined ways that they could cooperate to ensure armies are best prepared to deal with the new situations….” http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/14/2004160.htm

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By Artist General, August 13, 2007 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: WriteWrongs / i.e., Two Songs

HIT THE ROAD GEORGE

Hit the road George
and don’t you come back no more no war no Endless War
Hit the road George!
and don’t-yer-Party come back for more

Woah People, oh folks, don’t treat us so mean,
You’re the meanest old Nation that I’ve ever seen.
I guess if you said so
I’d have to pack my thing$ and go. (That’s right)

Hit the Road George
and don’t-yer Party come back no more no more for Endless War
hit the road George

What you Say?!
Hit the Road George & don’t you come back for more no more no Endless War
Hit the Road George & don’t-ya come back for more no more no more for More

Now people, listen folks don’t ya treat me this-a way
cause I’ll be back from defeat someday

(cursed if you do ‘cause it’s understood
you ain’t got clean money you just ain’t no GOOD)
Well I guess if you say so
I’d have to pack my thing$ & go (that’s right)

Hit the road George
and don’t you come back no more no more no Endless War
Hit the road George
and don’t you come back for more

Well
(don’t you come back no more)
Uh, what you say?
(IMPeach…)
I didn’t understand you…
(don’t you come back for more)
You can’t mean that…
(don’t you come back no more)
what you tryin’ to do to me
(don’t you come-back for more)
O don’t treat me like that

(you & yours…the whole sorry lotta ya!  the Vice Precedent…Turd Blossom…the PNAC Gallery…GOPeteredPrinciple ChickenHawkius Wrexus…Coup Clux Clanners…Root-of-all-Evilists…Faustian Soldyur$...Backboneless BadApple “Democrats”
O Yeah, BIGtime—there’s the Bloody RUB!
TOLDya-so America:  ...Green Thumb$-Up$uckers ALL
...of Hou$e Bushelzebub…

don’t ya come back no more)...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

SET IT FREE

When we find ourselves in Crimes of Warfare, Phatcat Cheney comes to $ee,
speaking words of wi$dumb, let it be
and in this hour of darkness he is standing right in front of me
speaking words on YouTube, let it be…

let it be, let it be Iran now can’t-choo-$ee
whispurred word$ to Dubya, let it be

Let it be, let it be, Irannow don’t-choo-$ee
Whi$purred words of Phatcat, “$et it free”...

And if the broken hearted people living there agree,
occupation’s not the answer, let it be.
For though they may be jaded there is still a chance that they will see,
Jesus want$ their Oil “Free”, sow “let it be”.

Let it be, $et it Free…

And though Iraq is “Cloudy”, there is still IRAN, that shines for me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the $ound of Chao$, brother Cheney comes to me,
speaking words of Warjone$, let it be.

Let it be, $et it Free…..

Report this

By ardee, August 13, 2007 at 11:22 am Link to this comment

Earl mumbles, after the drugs kick in no doubt:

The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about.  They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.

Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

aside from the obvious misplaced large ego noted, it would seem that Earl and Bush are masters of the malaprop, what else do they have in common I wonder? Possibly the drugs…...by the by, bold face is my highlighting…..

Report this

By Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

#94489 by cyrena on 8/13 at 7:04 am
(785 comments total)

Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

Well, you do at least make others aware of the existence of this “fictional thinking.”

*****Fortunately, (W) had mostly figured that out already.

_____________________________________________________

cyrena, must have a mice in cyrena pocket, surely cyrena is not speaking for everyone….

I know cyrena is not able to speak for me due to cyrena bigoted thinking on me being apart of the KKK is wrong. cyrena and Nancy P. seem to parallel in mental perceptions as they both seem to stand on the wrong side of the issues.

Report this

By cyrena, August 13, 2007 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

Well, you do at least make others aware of the existence of this “fictional thinking.”

Fortunately, we had mostly figured that out already.

Report this

By Elder Earl, August 13, 2007 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

#94432 by cyrena on 8/13 at 1:10 am
(783 comments total)

Meantime, you’re right. It doesn’t have anything to do with anything that the rest of us are talking about, and the Elder has only succeeded in distracting us, albeit momentarily. So, we’ve now provided the charge he so desperately needed in his miserable little life, and so we have done our duty, and can now ignore him for the rest of the “term”.

Eventually, he’ll go away, even if it’s just to turn up somewhere else, until a new batch of folks figure out what the deal is.
_____________________________________________________


Again we are back into incorrectness of a mental mind set that deludes straight forward thinking.
It does not matter how much knowledge of the bible one has as it is the incorrectness of bigotry bias in association with KKK.

The thinking and conclusions given in your writing are just like those Democrats that you rant and rave about.  They may not have no back bone or is their closet follow of things their do not want exposed.

Bush stand up to them just as I stand here to expose fictional thinking.

Report this

By cyrena, August 13, 2007 at 2:10 am Link to this comment

#94388 by Tony Wicher on 8/12 at 8:30 pm


....“But what, I would like to know, has this got to do with the further weakening of our constitutional liberties abetted by cowardly Democrats? Couldn’t we just keep somewhat on topic and ignore those who keep dragging in their religious predilections?...”

Tony,
Thanks for the verification on where that chapter is in the books. I could of course have checked it out easily enough, by actually looking at it, but that’s how little significance it has for me. And, while I certainly have never had a problem with anybody else studying it, I too find it, if not so much boring after the first several lectures of fire, brimstone, and God’s wrath, to be irrelavant. But, maybe it’s not. Maybe that’s where the Shrub got the model for his reign by terror-fear tactics. Just keeps everybody ducking and dodging from the next clap of thunder, even though we don’t know when or where it’s supposed to come. Just stay afraid.

Meantime, you’re right. It doesn’t have anything to do with anything that the rest of us are talking about, and the Elder has only succeeded in distracting us, albeit momentarily. So, we’ve now provided the charge he so desperately needed in his miserable little life, and so we have done our duty, and can now ignore him for the rest of the “term”.

Eventually, he’ll go away, even if it’s just to turn up somewhere else, until a new batch of folks figure out what the deal is.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 13, 2007 at 1:46 am Link to this comment

#94353 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 5:54 pm: “...What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a good politician. It would seem we’re back to being critical which lacks correctness….”

What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a ‘bad’ politician? It would seem we’re back to being critical of Hillary Clinton as well….... which lacks correctness….!?!?

Who are you really going to vote for in the end???

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, August 12, 2007 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

#94304 by cyrena on 8/12 at 2:25 pm

“If it is not in the Old Testament, than I stand corrected.”

It’s in the New Testament, all right. Congratulations on not having read the Bible. I find it mostly boring myself. But what, I would like to know, has this got to do with the further weakening of our constitutional liberties abetted by cowardly Democrats? Couldn’t we just keep somewhat on topic and ignore those who keep dragging in their religious predilections?

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farmertx's avatar

By farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

Yeah Earl, From your lips to Gods ear to quote my Jewish friend.
Lots of luck with a losing battle. Your kind of talk was losing ground 5 years ago. Its gone over the cliff now.
But you keep right on denying reality. Unlike the Shrub, we don’t pass laws to stiffle folks opinions, we just enjoy a good laugh, with a touch of sorrow that any one could still believe that sort of stuff.

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By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

“Where men build on false ground, the more they build the greater is the ruin.” Hobbes, Leviathon.

Calling George Walker Bush an able politician is perhaps the grandest lie ever posited on any web site anywhere. Any conclusions derived from such an enormously ridiculous belief falls of its own weight.

Upon what evidence I wonder does this possibly too old Elder advance this claim. Even staunch republicans are running not walking to distance themselves from this greatest of failures.

Bushs’ domestic policies are almost nonexistent. The jobs he boasts about creating are invariably lower in wage and benefits than those lost to outsourcing. Katrina victims still live in trailers that emit noxious gasses harmful to ones health. Returning veterans cannot get medical and psychiatric assistance. The middle class is shrinking faster than in any other time in our history, education is beyond the reach of far too many as is simple health care. The housing market is falling like a stone in a pond and Bush hasnt the iota of a clue as to what to do about any of it.

His foreign policies have alienated our staunchest allies, murdered 3500 of our children based on a callous and stupid lie. They have also energised the militant Islamists and created scores of bin Laden wannabees. We are in the greatest debt ever known to this nation, China and Russia threaten to devalue the dollar if we oppose them in any way and Bush clears brush on his ranch. Dennis Kucinich commented rather cleverly on this in the last debate when he noted that , as a child, he believed digging a deep enough hole would get him to China. “We’re there” he concluded.

The only reason Bush is not back in Crawford falling off his bicycle is because the Democratic Party is devoid of good and courageous leadership…the only reason!

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By Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment

#94347 by farmertx on 8/12 at 5:06 pm
(184 comments total)

#94342 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 4:47 pm

The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919)

Very apt quote, considering some of your praise for the Shrub.
_____________________________________________________

What great teaching is there in stating President Bush is a good politician. It would seem we’re back to being critical which lacks correctness.

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By farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

#94342 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 4:47 pm

The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919)

Very apt quote, considering some of your praise for the Shrub.

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By Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

cyrena

Save that for your KKK rallies.
_____________________________________________________

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860

The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919)

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

#94274 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 1:05 pm

•  How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860

#94241 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 9:31 am

•  You have circled the wagons of thought and the Indians are attacking.  Well hold on for the horseman are coming Rev.6:1-8, and Calvary (the way of the cross) is going to win.
===========================
No Elder, it isn’t the least bit “easy” to be critical, though it’s certainly required, before one can be “correct”.

Meantime, I was responding to this message about the circling of the wagons. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, (because I could be, and I’m really not concerned enough to walk across the room and check this out myself)…Does the above notation from your post –Rev.6:1-8 NOT refer to the Book of Revelations? And, if it DOES refer to the Book of Revelations, is that chapter NOT in the Old Testament? If it is not in the Old Testament, than I stand corrected.

So, I’ll repeat what I said before. I already know everything that I want to know about the Old Testament. I don’t find anything useful in the Book of Revelations. I don’t mind a bit, if you read and enjoy it. (I find it to be one of the most violent pieces of literature I’ve ever read. There’s somebody getting stuck by lightening or being turned into stone, or washed away by floods, or roaming deserts for decades at a time, -on every other page - and it just doesn’t sound like the same friendly God that I leaned about in Catholic school, so I pretty much avoid those Old Testament images of things.

THAT’S why I answered you the way that I did. Now, if you meant something else besides that, when you wrote Rev 6:1-8 or whatever it was, and if you DID mean that, but it somehow got moved to a different part of the book, or I never knew where it was to begin with, then I stand corrected.

I don’t know who the Benjamin fellow is, and NO! PLEASE don’t tell me. I honestly don’t feel the need to know everything.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

#94256 by Frank Cajon on 8/12 at 11:15 am


•  I can see that you recognize the problem, but do you really have a realistic solution?
Yep Frank,

I do indeed recognize the problem. And, I can answer at least some of your questions about my own commitments. I’m not gonna post a résumé of all of my “activist” credentials, since I would in fact like to maintain some measure of privacy, even if it’s illusionary, and just a nostalgic memory of how things “used to be” when the Constitution was in effect. Still, you can rest assured that as a product of the Civil Rights Movement, I’ve definitely put in my time in the trenches, and I have continued to do so, which is why I no longer have a job. So, yes, I DO continue to be willing to involve myself in these patriotic duties, despite the fact that I am 1000 times more “fearful” of this enemy now, than I ever was back in the day, when my friends and colleagues were dropping like flies, being beaten, jailed, and the list goes on.

So, I’ve earned my wings in that respect, and it’s also the reason why I do understand all of the real politick that you throw at me, about the composition of the house and the senate, and the fact that there’s no real difference between dems and repugs, and on and on. Yeah…I know ALL of those realities, even better than I knew the realities of the racism that existed so blatantly as recently as 30 years ago, and still is sometimes barely hidden under the surface even now.

And I remember from those times, the overwhelming concept of actually breaking with that long established institution – racism and the products thereof- segregation and horrific inequalities. And I remember that MLK was a young kid then, just barely out of the Seminary, and they kept telling him, (liberal white folks and black ones alike), that the TIME just wasn’t RIGHT for his movement. They kept telling him that he needed to “wait” for this. That it would take a while to bring people around to this whole idea of accepting black people as equal humans. And, he said NO! No, we cannot wait. It’s been 200 years. If not NOW – then WHEN?

And so, they marched. And they boycotted. And they demonstrated. And they were beaten and bloodied. Shoot dead like the dogs that were set upon them. They got hosed down with fire hoses at the orders of the Governor. Leaders and organizers were routinely assassinated. But, they couldn’t wait. Thank God they didn’t. Thank God they had some guts and some courage. So, I rest my case on that.

As for the general strike. If I didn’t say so before, I believe it’s an excellent idea. The only problem I see with it, is that it’s no more realistic to expect to organize a country of 300 million people scattered all over a continent, than it is to pressure 535 members of Congress into doing the right thing. That doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s a good idea, but then I’ve never been one to approach such a situation with only ONE tactic. So, if you can work up a general strike, I’m with you.

And yeah, you’re right that it’s late. Not 2 years late, but 6 years late. And so….we could just wait, as they told Martin he should do. But, I’ve never been patient when it comes to this stuff.

So, while I wouldn’t expect a massive rush on Congress in 2007 to be as bloody as some of the same efforts of decades past, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. (we see that the 1,800 people who were arrested at the 2004 Repug convention are STILL working through the system on that, and they were PEACEFUL. So know, I don’t expect an “easy victory”. If I thought that the dems were gonna do something on their own, they have since proved otherwise. So, it’s time to put a LOT of pressure on them. How badly do they wanna keep THEIR jobs? That’s probably far more important than whether or not every single body that is fortunate enough to HAVE a job, is willing to take a day off to do a general strike. (since it would have to be far more than a day off).

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By Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

#94247 by cyrena on 8/12 at 10:02 am
(767 comments total)

As for the Old Testament, I have no use for it. Save that for your KKK rallies.
_____________________________________________________

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24, 1860

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By farmertx, August 12, 2007 at 12:42 pm Link to this comment

#94256 by Frank Cajon on 8/12 at 11:15 am
(51 comments total)

Frank, I can see your point.
Myself, living in East Texas, I have very few chances to get involved in any protests. There just aren’t that many folks opposed enough to the Shrub around here to protest.
There are some R’s that wish they had never heard of him now, but they ain’t about to protest.
If you know of anything happening around the Dallas area, I’d be happy to show up.
Meantime, I keep emailing my congress critter’s, knowing all the while that because there is no check enclosed, it gets little attention. But over time, hopefully, the volume will keep growing and cause one or more to wake up.

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By Frank Cajon, August 12, 2007 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena: Okay so it’s ‘get with the program/stop whining or STFU’. I am glad you seem to have the impeachment conviction all worked out and the Senate votes in the bag. I can breathe easier now. I was worried, since the ‘opposition’ candidates all, except for Kucinich, went on the record last night with plans to keep us mired in Iraq till it is an ice rink. That and the fact that this impeachment you seem to feel is just around the corner is two years overdue. REALITY CHECK: There are too many DC insiders in the House and Senate to oust Bush/Cheney. The reason that the Emporer has been able to run the longest war in our history, pillage the Constitution, and pack the SC with Neocon fanatics is because of the composition of both Houses. The 2006 election changed a few faces but the Democrats get their support from the same deep pockets as the GOP. Get with what program? There isn’t one. If you read my blogs, you will see that I don’t just complain, I call for a national strike, and I have sent letters and made phone calls to the offices of the Congressmen, Senators, and State legislators from my state threatening to do this. Just like with the ‘antiwar’ movement, there aren’t enough Americans who give a damn to get off their asses and take to the streets. This worked in the last antiwar movement. Now, though I can no longer march, I can still demonstrate, and I do, on wheels. Usually with about 100 others, every time Bush/Cheney make an appearance in my hometown, and whenever there is a pro-war demonstration. Spare me the ‘get with the program’, are you willing to take a day off work and go to the Federal building with a sign and march in protest of Bush/Cheney with as many of your freinds as you can gather? Or are you waiting to be delivered from bondage by this heroic Congress that is going to miraculously step in and impeach and convict both of these dicatators in between sessions during which they pass legislation to give them $2 billion a day to kill Americans and Iraqis and use the Bill of Rights for asswipe? I can see that you recognize the problem, but do you really have a realistic solution?

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

#94241 by Elder Earl on 8/12 at 9:31 am


With that said, Bush is a good politicain and knows how to use his knowledge to keep overly open minded people at bay, or check, or under control, or limited, or etc….
++++++++++++++++++++++

Ya know Elder,

If this were in fact true, (that the shrub is a good politician (with knowledge) to keep people “at bay” or “under control”, or “limited” or whatever else, then all hell wouldn’t be breaking loose, now would it?

Sorry, but the shrub is a moron, and a psychopath to boot. He is without knowledge, and the most effective he has ever been at any job, was as a mascot/cheerleader at Yale.

Granted, any president has to be a “cheerleader” of sorts. But a president also has to be a Statesperson. George is not, and can never be. He’s simply too stupid, and has no principles or integrity. None. He’s a shell. It’s that simple. Let’s not pretend that there’s anything more to it than that.

Cheney runs the country, with the help of his lawyers, and all the others follow his orders. Period. Dot. End of conversation.

As for the Old Testament, I have no use for it. Save that for your KKK rallies.

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By Elder Earl, August 12, 2007 at 10:31 am Link to this comment

cyrena,

In the multiplicity of words a though can be lost when written in the ambiance of text.  For example you explaining what I meant.  I do not consider people in your enlightening term as the Shrub species.

Plus, I like to keep things in code just to see what rational the literary giants will spin commsense into.

Here is a another simple code for literary giants who take simplicity and trash it for intellectually honors.

You have circled the wagons of thought and the Indians are attacking.  Well hold on for the horseman are coming Rev.6:1-8, and Calvary (the way of the cross) is going to win.

With that said, Bush is a good politicain and knows how to use his knowledge to keep overly open minded people at bay, or check, or under control, or limited, or etc….

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By Mariam Russell, August 12, 2007 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ms Pelosi needs to be replaced by Cindy Sheehan.

Ron Paul is Libertarian.
Libertarians are people who do not have the courage to call themselves Conservatives and accept the self image that goes with it.

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By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

#94033 by Jeanine Molloff on 8/11 at 1:30 pm


Please dont shout at us….thank you.

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By ardee, August 12, 2007 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

#94006 by atheo on 8/11 at 11:30 am

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/about/

I would suggest that this forum use the link, ponder the words and see if you are as comfortable with Paul as is atheo…...As to welfare, Pauls statement that he never votes for legislation not expressly defined in the constitution rules out an awful lot of necesary stuff.

You might, in the interest of self discovery also search for and think about the politics of libertarianism and see if that is truly what you want, it isnt what I want. I do like Paul instinctively, as an honest man, but even honest folks can be wrong.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 3:14 am Link to this comment

•  #94117 by Elder Earl on 8/11 at 7:36 pm
(35 comments total)
Jeanine Molloff,
•  I guess it was over looked but here is why there will be no impeachment. G.W. Bush is a politician and a good politician knows what is in the closet of all the other political figures that are around him.  So before the politicians cries impeachment, it becomes important that he knows his own heart, as to its own purity.
Hey Elder,
It wasn’t overlooked. Actually read the other explanation that you addressed to Louise. Since you were speaking in “code” for the swamp mentality claimed by all politicians of the Shrub species, the others either didn’t pick up on it, or chose to ignore you, which seems to be the best route on boards like this.
Still, I think I can translate for you, what you mean, in a way that the other contributors might have missed. What you’re saying is that ALL of your favorite buds in the administration, are in the swamp together, and they’ve all got something on each other. That was apparently your point with the neighbors and you dealing drugs. If YOU know that Mr and Mrs Jones next door have the same boyfriend, (but they don’t know it themselves), how can either of them say anything when the boyfriend buys their drugs from you? So in other words, each one of them is even slimier than the next, and none will rat out the other, because it means suicide for them.

This is of course, the common mentality that motivates them all, with very few exceptions. And guess what? We already know that, which is why they ALL have to go, and the fallout is very near.

Unless you’ve got one of those “pure hearts”, it might just be time to run for cover.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:58 am Link to this comment

PS FC,

Nobody in the impeachment camp is talking about impeaching bush alone. That’s why it was never considered before. The obvious result, (at least according to the rule book) is that we would have been stuck with the devil himself, instead of just his puppet.

That is all very passe’. Cheney is at the top of the impeachment list, but for those who are serious about this, the overall operation would impeach the entire administration.

And yes. It’s doable.

Read or watch the link that Louise posted earlier on the post for details.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 2:25 am Link to this comment

#94030 by Frank Cajon on 8/11 at 1:15 pm

•  Cyrena: If you think this Congress is going to Impeach Bush and Cheney (remember, impeaching Bush alone is pointless, Cheney is smarter and more ruthless, and just as corrupt), I recommend you consider a few things

Actually Frank,
I’ve considered all of these things, and I’ve BEEN considering them, as they occur. Things have become thoroughly mucked-up, well beyond anything that even the most realistic and pragmatic among us, could EVER have anticipated. I know all of that. I understand your anger and all of the rage, because I’ve been there and done it, having predicted most of this stuff, long before it happened, and yet been forced to stand by, (powerlessly) and watch while it did.

So, you’re preaching to the choir with all of the doom and gloom, because many of us have watched with the same feelings of hopelessness. So, you can keep bitching, about what will never happen, or you can help make it happen. There’s really no time now, for the luxury of whining. I know perfectly well how ruthless and dangerous Dick Cheney is. I knew it 2 decades ago, and I knew it when mindless idiots were running around places like Texas, singing the praises of George Bush, even though most of them didn’t have a clue to who the secretive satan was, and he has ALWAYS done his deeds in the utmost of secrecy. So, you don’t have to tell me how dangerous dick cheney is.

But guess what? There’s HIM, as well as his Secret Cabal, (without whom he could not operate) and then there are…THE REST OF US. He and his operatives have ALWAYS had “their” agenda. This is not new. Now that some of the sheeple are awakening to this agenda, we realize that it is NOT to our advantage, and so we know that it is time to insist on our OWN agenda.

No one expects dick cheney or george bush to “step down”. You’re right. That will not happen. No, they will have to be TAKEN DOWN, which is what our Constitution provides for. And, I suspect that at least chainsaw dick, surely knows that it’s coming, and is trying to play it out for all he can squeeze from it, until that last escape trip, that takes him over the horizon, to his new digs in Dubai.

So, we are now collectively at that “fight or flee” moment, when we simply disregard all of the doom and gloom of the real politick that you provide in all of your negativity, and decide to fight back. And, there are far more of US, than there are of THEM. So, if it means bringing down the whole house, we are prepared to do that, and we have this excellent guide book/instruction manual, that shows us exactly how to do it.

You have the option of either getting with the program, or you can STFU!!

•  Bush/Cheney, even if convicted of impeachable offenses, are not going to step down, by the way. They are in it for the long haul. They are the first American dictators and they aren’t going to let some sniveling Judiciary committee prevent them from defending us from the terrorists who want to take away our freedom.

The only terrorists bent on taking away our freedoms are the dictators you’ve just described. And in the end, WE will take them down, if it means replacing all of them.

You don’t have to help if you don’t want to. But at least don’t stand in the way of the rest of us who have work to do.

Besides, I’m not afraid of dick cheney, and I’m a hell a better shot than he is too!!

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By THOMAS BILLIS, August 12, 2007 at 1:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Please you people who think that the democats will impeach please put down the appletini and get a grip on reality.The chimp is at 30% and the democrats cannot win one major legislative battle vs the chimp.For the first time in history the chimp is playing the organ and the democrats are dancing for bannanas.Republicans you better watch out if you do not behave the democrats may make you stay up all night.It is getting so depressing their is not anyone in the leadership of either party who puts country over party.You can put 1 million emails on Nancy Pelosi’s web site and it will not accomplish athing.Put one million people in Washington with all the news coverage and you will get action.

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By cyrena, August 12, 2007 at 1:00 am Link to this comment

•  #94006 by atheo on 8/11 at 11:30 am
(364 comments total)
Ardee,
You are mischaracterising Paul’s positions. In fact he has stated that although he would not have created some programs as they exist, due to the fact that Americans rely on them, he will not change them. These suggestions that he would radically alter existing programs do not come from his campaign or him.
Atheo,

I’ve mentioned this before, and admittedly, I never had the “evidence” that Ardee has presented here, regarding the Ron Paul agenda. Rather, I have based my so far cautious feelings regarding Ron Paul, on what is more “gut instinct”, and a long standing understanding of how politics works, in different areas of the country. I don’t like using that term, “gut instinct”, if only because the occupiers have used it, to show just how efficiently they can totally DESTROY a society. Having been ruled by the “gut” of George W and others for the past 7 years has proven to be disastrous, as anyone who hasn’t been in a coma can appreciate.

At the same time however, concepts such as “intuition” or “gut instinct” do take on significance when they can be defined in terms of mixing common wisdom, experience, and a close observance of what goes on over time, and in trends, to get a general view of something that cannot always be defined in empirical statistics. Such as it is with Ron Paul, and to an extent, ALL politicians. I think Louise made an important point, when she noted the difference between a STATESMAN, and a politician. We need leaders who are STATESMEN/WOMEN FIRST, and politicians second. Ron Paul is not that, and I can’t think of many politicians in the history of Texas politics, who HAVE been.

I’m afraid that dooms Ron Paul, at least for the next few decades. Call it an irrational form of “profiling” at its worst, if you want to. But as far as I’m concerned, we should avoid putting ANYBODY from Texas, in ANY positions of high leadership, for the next several years. Might as well throw in Florida politicians as well. Of course they should maintain their representation within the Congress, but I don’t want to see another Texan in the Executive or Judicial branches of our government for at least a decade. For far too long that populace has behaved like a state within a state, with its own laws that are generally not in keeping with the rest of the country. While this might not be dangerous as long as this influence is “contained”, it becomes disastrous when these types influence the entire national policy.

So, while Ron Paul may be harmless enough, this isn’t the time to take on another radical agenda. We just have to get back to the one that worked before.

Also, Ron Paul isn’t the least bit kidding about eliminating the “welfare” state. Texas long ago eliminated that sort of State aid. It simply doesn’t exist. They began cutting it over 20 years ago, by simply eliminating it, at least at the state level, and they don’t “participate” in the federal programs that administer such aid either. Such as aid for dependent children, or any of those programs that might make a dent in some of the most abject poverty. It’s critical to note that Texas is one of only 3 States in the nation, that does NOT collect a state income tax from its citizens. This is very convenient for the corps that have become our government, like the Oil/Energy industry..ie, Halliburton, Exxon-Mobile, etc. These folks don’t want to pay state income taxes, and it is from those taxes, that most of the social welfare programs are funded. Since they don’t have those funds, they don’t provide those services. Makes for a difficult life for the –have nots-, and their numbers are growing.

So, there can be a place on the back burner for Ron Paul, but not in a policy making capacity.
It’s just not a “luxury” we can afford. We need a “change”, but not a loose cannon.

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By Frank Cajon, August 11, 2007 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

Jeannine Moloff 94033: Lots of good talking points. My question: what House and what Senate is going to do all these impeachment trials and repeal all these fascist laws? The one that is in there is pretty much the one that put them into law, and backs the play or our dictators? When I hear about a move to ‘censure’ the prez for some abuse of power he doesn’t legally have, or Pelosi unwilling to go up against the Fuhrer in his bunker, I lay the blame on these spineless bureaucrats who are nothing but Republicans with different Skull society code names and as much a part of the problem as the High Command. It is as much the electorate’s fault for putting these fools in as it is their fault that they have no spines or gonads. If there was a chance that they were going to rid us of them, they would have started by uniting in opposition to the troop surge and refusing the $100 billion in funding. Istead, the standard token opposition that was for show and fell apart after all the cute rhetoric. The fact is: OUR LEGISLATORS HAVE ABANDONED US AND WILL NOT SAVE THE CONSTITUTION FROM THESE FASCISTS. My position, made before, is a general strike, followed by another, until the voice of the people is no longer ignored. Then, one election at a time, be rid of all of these jellyfish who supported the Bush/Cheney Reich, their blitzkrieg, and their SS erasing the Bill of Rights. It may take a generation, it may take some grassroots rebuilding of the Democratic or Green party, but the sooner we start the sooner we will see some results, assuming dictatorship doesn’t occur first.

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By hazmaq, August 11, 2007 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Not to change the subject but did everyone also hear about another little mickey slipped into the last Defense Auth. Bill of 2007 that moves Bush closer to marital law and other manuevers.

The excuse last time was because of a Republican Congress.

It got through again, under Democrats.

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By Elder Earl, August 11, 2007 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

Jeanine Molloff,

I guess it was over looked but here is why there will be no impeachment. G.W. Bush is a politician and a good politician knows what is in the closet of all the other political figures that are around him.  So before the politicians cries impeachment, it becomes important that he knows his own heart, as to its own purity.

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By atheo, August 11, 2007 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

August 11, 2007
Ron Paul Iowa Straw Poll Speech
Rat Says: This clip just in from the Iowa Straw Poll in Ames. By far the most powerful speech of the day along with the loudest, most demonstrative crowd!!! This could be Ron Paul’s best political speech so far.

http://rattube.com/blog1/2007/08/11/ron-paul-iowa-straw-poll-speech/

Register Republican and make your vote count.

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By atheo, August 11, 2007 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Why not force fascists to vote against impeachment so that the electorate can identify them?

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By Jeanine Molloff, August 11, 2007 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Impeachment MUST happen.  IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST; THEN SHRUB, THEN GONZALES.  AFTER THAT PROCEDURE; PREPARE CRIMINAL CHARGES OF TREASON AGAINST ALL THREE, AND TELEVISE THE PROCEEDINGS WORLDWIDE.  PELOSI HAS NO RIGHT TO DECIDE UNILATERALLY THAT ‘IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE.’  THE FACT THAT CONGRESS DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION IS IRRELEVANT—THEY STILL MUST FOLLOW IT.  TIME TO MARCH ON DC AGAIN.  TIME TO PICKET CONGRESSIONAL OFFICES AND CONGRESSMEN’S HOMES.  TIME TO OSTRACISE THEIR FAMILIES.  MAKE THEM FEEL THE HURT.  TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR RIGHTS.  DON’T FEEBLY ASK FOR OUR RIGHTS—TAKE THEM BACK!  DON’T MAKE EXCUSES FOR ANYONE.  TIME FOR AN ALL OUT ASSAULT ON OUR TREASONOUS CONGRESS!  TOO MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARGUE THAT THEY CAN EITHER FIGHT TO REESTABLISH THE BILL OF RIGHTS OR TAKE CARE OF DAILY BUSINESS, AS IF THIS WERE AN EITHER…OR PROPOSITION.  IT IS NOT.  THEY MUST DO BOTH!  REPEAL PATRIOT I & II, MILITARY COMMISSIONS, WARNER AUTHORIZATION, ANIMAL TERRORISM BILL, HSPD & NSPD 20 & 51 AND CHANGES MADE TO THE HISTORICAL POSSE COMITATUS BILL.  THIS IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED TO REGAIN OUR RIGHTS.  BY REPEALING THESE INTOLERABLE ACTS; GONZALES, BUSH & CHENEY LOSE ALL THE POWER THEY IMMORALLY STOLE.  VOTING TO REPEAL THESE ACTS IN THEIR ENTIRETY IS A SIMPLE PROCESS.  AS FOR THE TERRORISTS; NOTHING IN THESE BILLS PROTECTS ANYONE FROM GUERRILLA WARFARE.  BETTER PROTECTION IS AVAILABLE BY FORCING THE CORPORATE ENTITIES RUNNING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE TO SAFEGUARD THE SAME.  FUNNEL THE CONCERN TO PROTECTING POTENTIAL TARGETS LIKE OUR FOOD CHAIN, WATER SUPPLY, NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, POWER GRID, COMMUNICATIONS GRID, PORTS, ETC.  SPYING ON FOLKS DOES NOT GIVE SECURITY; THOUGH THIS MAY THE ONLY WAY CHENEY CAN GET ANY JOLLIES.  DEMAND THAT CONGRESS REPEAL ALL THE LEGISLATIVE POWER THEFTS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION.  DEMAND THAT CONGRESS IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST, THEN BUSH, THEN GONZALES.  DEMAND A RETURN TO CONSTITUTIONAL RULE.  IF NOT; RECALL EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS.  YES, IT CAN BE DONE.  CONTACT BRUCE FEIN.  HE KNOWS HOW.

SIGN ME,
READY TO RUN FOR OVAL OFFICE MYSELF

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By Frank Cajon, August 11, 2007 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena: If you think this Congress is going to Impeach Bush and Cheney (remember, impeaching Bush alone is pointless, Cheney is smarter and more ruthless, and just as corrupt), I recommend you consider a few things. This congress doesn’t have enough votes to overturn a veto of the Iraq slaughter funds. They gave Bush/Cheney no battle at all in this latest wiretapping of phones without warrants. An impeachment trial conviction requires a 2/3 majority vote of the Senate. Both of these bastards deserve to be brought to trial for their crimes but I have been around a long time and predict it won’t happen. For one thing, as bad as these Fascists are, a majority of Americans don’t necessarily support their removal by impeachment-which is disgusting but true. If the articles are put forward, the Senate will fail to get rid of them and they will become martyrs, the victim of (to use your term applied to Clinton, a partisan witch hunt). By the way, Clinton was a felon. He committed perjury in a Congressional investigation and obstructed justice. It may have been a partisan witch hunt, but if I had been on a jury, I would have sent him to to prison. He broke the law, just like Bush/Cheney have; on a much more insignificant set of circumstances, to be sure, but he deserved to be removed from office. Bush/Cheney, even if convicted of impeachable offenses, are not going to step down, by the way. They are in it for the long haul. They are the first American dictators and they aren’t going to let some sniveling Judiciary committee prevent them from defending us from the terrorists who want to take away our freedom.

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By farmertx, August 11, 2007 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment

ardee
That (privatizing SS) is but one of the reason’s I am leery of him.
However. politician’s have been known to change their positions.
There is no one group that I see that offers a viable alternative to the status quo.
But, I keep looking and listening.

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By felicity, August 11, 2007 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

Louise, I was taken aback when Nichols, or Fein (can’t remember) said that ‘impeachment’ is mentioned 6 times in the Constitution - which by the way doesn’t mention political parties, corporations etc. stuff that gets so much political play these days.  His point being that Congress is treating impeachment like it’s some sort peculiar, singular, unimportant after-thought that the framers considered only at the last minute, like.

Wrong.  Nichols mentioned that by granting the president the right to pardon the convicted, the framers realized that any president could use that power in such a way as to end up pardonning himself. In that instance alone, it was vital that impeachment be included in the document. (Wonder what the framers would think of Libby’s get-out-of-jail-free card to save Bush’s ass and Congress’s big fat yawn reaction.)

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By atheo, August 11, 2007 at 12:30 pm Link to this comment

Ardee,

You are mischaracterising Paul’s positions. In fact he has stated that although he would not have created some programs as they exist, due to the fact that Americans rely on them, he will not change them. These suggestions that he would radically alter existing programs do not come from his campaign or him.

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By Elder Earl, August 11, 2007 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

#93992 by Louise on 8/11 at 10:24 am
(88 comments total)

Elder Earl
Thanks for your input.
Not sure I understand it, but thanks.
_____________________________________________________


If I know an important figure in the community is not being faithful to their spouse and they know I have evidence of the fact but do not want to lose the status-quo.  Do you think they are going to report me for dealing in drugs?

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By ardee, August 11, 2007 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

#93996 by farmertx on 8/11 at 10:37 am
(178 comments total)

I understood the gist of your response, I was simply attempting to show a differing route , another possible avenue for action. I do not, not for one moment, believe that Dennis Kucinich, the only candidate from that party I would vote for, would be allowed to win the nomination. I do not believe that even he thinks he has a chance, he simply runs to promote sanity and real values.

As to Ron Paul, I really like the guy, would love to talk to him, especially to debate the relative merits of Libertarianism. I would suggest that, before supporting a libertarian you check to see if you are comfortable with all the baggage that comes with that political stance.

Do you support privatisation of social security? Paul does. Do you support the outsourcing of all governmental functionings to for profit corporations? Paul does. Do you wish to end the welfare system? Paul does.

I think that it is long past time for Americans to begin to look outside the box for solutions to our serious problems. By that I mean third party choices. It is third parties that will end the control of corporations on our political decision making,it is third parties that will keep the moderate agenda before the Legislatures, and it is only third party victories that will do so.

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By farmertx, August 11, 2007 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

ardee

I was responding to felicity about casting NO votes, for any party.
Voting for a third party candidate wasn’t mentioned in her post.
Yes, we do have to do something to wake all politician’s up.
Prior to 2000, we generally had a clear choice, although the differences had been diminishing since the 40’s, from what I’ve read.
Now we have reached a point of no choice. Hillary thinks taking bribes is ok, as long as it is out in the open.
Obama, well, I’m not sure that he has the experience yet.
Dennis K, and the rest are well back of these two.
Ron Paul makes some good points and sense. But I am leery of him right now. Maybe, as I hear more about him, that will change.
The other part is that regardless of who is President, if we don’t have a House and Senate with some people willing to do the right thing for the right reason, it won’t make any difference.
Even if we elect a perfect (from our point of view) combination, it will take two terms, minimum, to undo all that Shrub and Co has wrecked, without causing major problems along the way.

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By Louise, August 11, 2007 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

Elder Earl
Thanks for your input.
Not sure I understand it, but thanks.

cyrena
Thanks for your kind words, but lets give credit where credit is due.

Bill Moyer who put together this discussion making it possible for all of us to understand what we need to do.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2194.shtml

“Nancy Pelosi has apparently been overwhelmed with email and calls. She’s noted that, and possibly realizes that she’ll now have to pay attention. So the continuation of these calls and emails in VOLUME - (well, I mean quantity, not overwhelming noise, though it might not hurt) and it has to be sustained. They just have to have the pressure really on them, or they won’t do anything, just like they haven’t yet.”

More than 100,000 I understand, to Nancy alone! Lets bring that up to ONE MILLION!

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-0100

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
http://www.speaker.gov/contact/

I happen to be one of those fortunate few who has a representative who pretty much agrees with me, so I thank him a lot. But there are many out there I think we can reach, who may in turn help influence Nancy. One of my favorites is Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a member of the thirtysomething dems.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Now, about the Senate ...
[My Senators pretty much agree with me on everything but impeachment.
That doesn’t mean they wont, it means they aren’t saying ... yet]

Harry Reid
528 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-3542 / Fax: 202-224-7327
Toll Free for Nevadans: 1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343) -Restricted to calls originating from area codes 775 and 702

http://democrats.senate.gov/
http://reid.senate.gov/contact/

Thanks cyrena, for all you do.

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By Skruff, August 11, 2007 at 11:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Democrats didn’t “punt” they laid down and played dead.

Here in My district (2nd Maine)the 1st district congressman (Tom Allen D. Maine) is running against Senator Susan Collins. 

Allen (in an email to me 3 years ago) explained his position on giving the president the war powers formerly designated to congress, this way.

“Since the constitution was written the world has become a much faster place, and we place ourselves in danger by relying on past methods of retaliating opr responding to an enemy strike.”

I wrote back and asked “Then does this mean the constitution, or at least some section of it, is obsolete?”

No response from Allen, by default in the fall my vote goes to Collins. 

I’m not a big fan of Collins, but she answers the hard questions, and even if I don’t agree with her, she is responsive.

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By purplewolf, August 11, 2007 at 10:41 am Link to this comment

#93759 Felicity
I am so tired of these idiots running around trying to win votes for the next presidential election, provided shrub doesn’t declare Matrial Law by then, since its well over 14 months away yet, that when it comes time to vote I don’t think I will bother. They have all proven they do not have Americas best interest in mind, let alone that of the “little people”. They have proven they really don’t care about what is happening every day by simply being on the campaign trail. This should speak volumns to everyone out there. If they were so concerned about “us” they would be back on the job they were elected to do, not playing the election game. In fact it should be made into law that no one is allowed to start to campaign for president until the year of the election and then for no longer than maybe 4-6 months, actually the less time spend on the mud slinging road the better.

In high school in the 60’s I asked one of my history teachers what would happen if people decided not to vote for a president and I was told we would then have a monarchy. Well thanks to shrub dictatorship trumps monarchy.

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By atheo, August 11, 2007 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

When asked by Barbara Walters on the night of September 11, 2001 if the 9/11 attacks were carried out by forces within the U.S., 2008 presidential candidate and then senate intelligence committee member John Edwards becomes evasive and refuses to answer the question, after having spoken to CIA director George Tenet earlier that day:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-886644060632694627&hl=en

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By Leefeller, August 11, 2007 at 9:43 am Link to this comment

Cahoots, cahoots. 

The differences between the political parties is being furious and caving in or having ones nose up Comader Cod piece’s butt and being quite the yes folks. 

Cahoots with a twist for the Dems, a little smoke and some mirror’s but the Dems.  noses end up in the same place as the Repubs.

We are the loosers.

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By ardee, August 11, 2007 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

What are the odds? I agree so wholeheartedly with Skruffs post:
#93705 by Skruff on 8/10 at 8:44 am

Thanks for it. As to the Farmer’s thoughts:
#93825 by farmertx on 8/10 at 6:09 pm

I speak as one who has voted third party since 2000. I have heard all the arguments, participated in all the discussions, listened to all the “wasted vote, enabling the GOP, electing Bush” crap for years and years. So what have we got now?

If voting third party does not send a message to the Democratic Party about getting their feeble act together then, frankly, fuck them!

Do you seriously believe, given the cowardice displayed so very recently by this piece of crap legislation, coming so soon after Gonzales displayed to the world how incompetent, agendized and traitorous to Justice he is, that electing Democrats will fix our problems?

I believe you to be a serious and thoughtful person, and farmers are, after all, the backbone of our nation. As such do you not think it time to give much thought to your allegiances and to the solutions to our problems?

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By Elder Earl, August 11, 2007 at 9:18 am Link to this comment

Louise,

What is missing is CONGRESSIONAL will!

_____________________________________________________
No!
G.W. Bush is a politician and a good politician knows what is in the closet of all the other political figures that are around him.  So before the boy cries wolf, it becomes important that he knows his own heart as to its own purity.

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By cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

#93938 by Louise on 8/11 at 7:03 am

GO LOUISE!!!

Thanks for this so very excellent rundown and explanation that ALL can understand. I’m going to circulate it, as is. It’s very helpful, because, as you noted from the program, our own CONGRESS doesn’t know the Constitution, and they’ve somehow become brainwashed into seeing it as a political tool to punish (or smear) an opponent, (because that’s all the Clinton impeachment was about), and so they’ve decided they don’t want to indulge in “those kinds” of politics, TOTALLY disregarding the FACT that it is their duty and responsibility to do this, and it’s NOT about their little petty power plays with and among EACH OTHER!!! Like dueling parents using kids as an excuse for arguments that have nothing to do with the kids, and everything to do with them.

And, at the end of the day, unless we do something, we are, as Louise said, “the kids”, and we get screwed. Once those rights are gone, it is so next to impossible to restore the collective psychology that we need to get them back.

Anyway, this was very helpful, and uplifting, because it means that we have what we need, and now only need to USE it. Which is exactly what I’ve been screaming about all along.smile

So, it’s time to get to it. For anyone in the Los Angeles area, there are events now, and throughout the weekend. The details are at democrats.com (I THINK…if not, let me know and I’ll look it up).

And, there are others in progress as well. I have a list somewhere, and they are planned over the next several weeks. So, that’s something to check into. There are many.

I should also note that Nancy Pelosi has apparently been overwhelmed with email and calls. She’s noted that, and possibly realizes that she’ll now have to pay attention. So the continuation of these calls and emails in VOLUME - (well, I mean quantity, not overwhelming noise, though it might not hurt) and it has to be sustained. They just have to have the pressure really on them, or they won’t do anything, just like they haven’t yet.

But, the “awakening” has begun. Round up all the kids and the old folks, and get to it. smile

Thanks again Louise. This was great. Even the Congress can understand this responsibility, the way you’ve broken it down for them here.

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By Louise, August 11, 2007 at 8:03 am Link to this comment

cyrena,

Re: Bill Moyer’s Journal. 
The show was concise, easy to understand and very informative. Two men representing opposite sides of the political spectrum, made the case for impeaching the entire administration.

I recommend everyone watch it, or read the transcript.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rqww-eOIs
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2194.shtml

Some important points:

First:
The case for impeachment has already been made! Enough hearings and refusals to answer Congressional summons, enough “executive privilege” where there is none, cited to hold the whole bunch in contempt. The evidence is there, the case can easily be made and everyone knows it.

Without even going into the fine detail about the war, the seizing of our rights, the torture and a long list of verifiable Constitutional abuses, the case is there!

What is missing is CONGRESSIONAL will!

Second:
Impeachment is not a punishment. Impeachment is a tool our founding fathers put in place to save the Constitution when there was a Constitutional crisis. The excuse that conducting impeachment hearings this close to an election because it would create a Constitutional crisis is completely bogus.

We already have a Constitutional crisis. The administration is barely a hair-width away from completely destroying the Constitution!  Impeachment is the necessary medicine that needs to be administered to save our form of Constitutional government!

Third:
Because we are so close to an election is precisely WHY this has to happen now! If we allow this administration to continue on trampling Constitutional Law, we set the precedent that guarantees future presidents will have no respect for the law! This has to stop NOW! The tool given us was precisely created for just this kind of emergency!

Moyer’s asked the question [and I can’t quote exactly] “Then why hasn’t the congress taken on this issue, why don’t they want to impeach?”

The answer startled me!

“The congress doesn’t understand the Constitution.”

Think about that ... The Congress doesn’t understand the Constitution!

“So,” Moyer’s asked, “the Congress is more responsible than the administration?”

And there-in lies the crux of our problem.

Fourth:
There is a difference between a Statesman and a Politician. What we have running our Congress and our Administration is a bunch of politicians. They think and function from a political point of view, not as statesmen. They base their decisions on what they perceive as politically expedient rather than Constitutionally mandated performance. They have come to regard we the people as the “children” and themselves as the all-wise parents taking care of us ... and we need to stop allowing them to do this. Because once we become the children being taken care of, our voice will never be heard!

So it’s time to stop pussy-footing around.

Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are failing in every way possible, because they are ignoring the voice of we the people. Of course a greedy spoiled power hungry man is going to abuse his position if he is allowed to!

The Congress has allowed this from day one of this administration! And while some may be willing to justify or excuse that, to the degree that we were all panicked following 9/11, that really is no excuse. Certainly no justification. Our laws are sufficient to bring any so-called terrorists to justice. What they have done is actually weaken our laws, by weakening our Constitution and it needs to stop NOW!

The only answer is IMPEACHMENT
The tool is there!
We need to demand our congress use it!
No name calling ... but a constant and powerful reminder about their responsibility is called for.
Keep phoning, keep writing, and get your kids and grandkids involved, because THEIR FUTURE is at stake!

WE MUST HAVE IMPEACHMENT NOW!

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By cyrena, August 11, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment

#93872 by Frank Cajon on 8/10

•  Those who say ‘Impeach’: Who is going to writearticles of impeachment

Frank,

For whatever it’s worth, (and I don’t know how much that is) the articles of impeachment, at least for the Shrub, have pretty much already been done. The paperwork –by itself- is not that big of a deal, aside from the fact that in this case, (as opposed to the Clinton farce) there are so MANY charges, both domestic and international.

Still, the more or less “skeleton” of it should be somewhere in the paperwork for the resolution. I mean, that would be my assumption, if the HR “6—“ that Kucinich introduced for Cheney’s impeachment, was actually a serious resolution. (I’ve admittedly not read the whole thing, so I don’t know what it includes.) But, any impeachment resolution, (regardless of whom it’s for) would or at least –should- have the basics of the charges at least, included in it. From there, the more complicated legalese can be managed by any number of legal scholars, or there may even be some in the house or senate, though none come to mind right now, other than Barack, and I doubt he’s gonna give up campaign time to do it. There are certainly many other lawyers in the Congress besides him and Hillary, but his background gives him an edge in what this would involve, which is the need for Constitutional experts/scholars.

Still, it’s not as much of a deal as the hype is trying to make it. At least not from the technically legal framework. I’m sure there are others in the Congress that have these skills, but then again, maybe not. There was a time in earlier decades, when we did actually have a lot of career professionals such as these, IN the government and the cabinets, and the State department, and even the executive branch, we’ve always had these experts available for stuff like this. As a matter of fact, the guy who wrote the Articles for Big Willie’s impeachment,  (and I can’t think of his name right now, but it’s seems like it’s Nicholas something) was on Bill Moyers Journal on PBS earlier this evening, though I didn’t watch it.

But, in the programming notes from earlier in the week, they were following up on a recent poll that actually, (finally) shows such a large percentage of Americans that do want the impeachment. (our survival depends on it). So, he was apparently interviewing this guy who did the tediousness chore of putting Will’s Articles together.

In addition to that, there was a resolution written for bringing impeachment forward last December, before the old Congress split up, that was provided by Cynthia McKinney, knowing that it would only be a “symbolic” piece of work or legislation, because she couldn’t get any sponsors for the legislation, and Nancy was threatening her with a big stick, not to even MENTION such a thing.

So, I only said that to say the getting the stuff written (or finding someone to do it) wouldn’t be the problem. Other cases have been made as well, such as Elizabeth de la Vega, who wrote “The United States v. George W. Bush”, (soon to be out in movie form). She is a former U.S. District Attorney (career, since she spent over 20 years in the Justice Department) and she primarily prosecuted fraud cases. So, in her book, she makes an excellent case for fraud against the Shrub.

Patrick Fitzgerald did basically the same thing with the Libby trial. If one looks carefully at the stuff already on the record from that trial, they actually have a case against cheney, on at least a handful of charges. There are of course far more that would need to be included.

So I think there could still be some hope. The Senate didn’t take Big Willie down because they knew that was nothing but a major witch hunt and the typical dirty and vindictive tricks the right practices. So, it was a farce, and not anything close to crimes against the people of the U.S. or any other country. And maybe more importantly, the PUBLIC was not behind Clinton’s impeachment.

So, stay tuned.

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By Elder Earl, August 10, 2007 at 10:41 pm Link to this comment

Frank Cajon
We need to start electing some candidates to office whose platform is to change the status quo,...
_____________________________________________________

We did elect a candidate who has changed the status quo.  His name is G. W. Bush.  He knows how to us the veto and understands the true art of diplomacy’s.

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By Frank Cajon, August 10, 2007 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

Wake up, citizens. It is our fault for having 1) elected these madmen who have made a dictatorship of the executive branch and 2) also elected these useless republicats who are giving the high command every damn thing they ask for, be it war funding, or overhauls in the laws that protect us. The Democrats are no better than the Republicans, they just have a different animal for their cartoons.
Those who say ‘Impeach’: Who is going to writearticles of impeachment? The same Congressmen that say der Fuhrer is wrong, then vote for his latest fascist fantasy anyway? Not going to happen. If these fools aren’t willing to override a veto, how in the HELL do any of you seriously think they are going to vote for articles of impeachment? The Senate, which had Clinton dead to rights on perjury in the last impeachment trial, let him off. Do you think that they are going to suddenly get religion and convict BOTH Herr Bush and Cheney of obstruction of justice, contempt of Congress, or any of many crimes they have already committed. Think again.
We need to start electing some candidates to office whose platform is to change the status quo, get us out of the middle East, quit funding both sides of the Palestinian conflict, and start to rebuild America both within and as a member of the world community now that der Fuhrer has destroyed it. This will take a generation, but it needs to start now.

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By farmertx, August 10, 2007 at 7:09 pm Link to this comment

#93759 by felicity on 8/10 at 1:32 pm

Great idea about big turnout and no votes cast.
Trouble is, the 20% who think Shrub is the answer would get to elect the next President.
Granted that none of the GOP candidates are as bad as the Shrub, why take a chance on a dark horse taking those 20%?

We have to vote for a group of people, because no one person is going to change things. It will take a group working together with the best interests of the US foremost in their actions.

Frank Gravel, Bill Richardson are two I’d to hear more from. But the big briber’s won’t bother with them, and folks like me are too broke from this booming economy to help that much.

That puts it back to voting for the lesser of two evils. Great option, huh?

If the campaign contributions could be limited so as to come only from individuals who are eligible to vote for that candidate up to a limit of $2000, that would change things a lot. But I ain’t looking for pigs to start flying, so…

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By atheo, August 10, 2007 at 6:39 pm Link to this comment

Fighting the Democrats’ Complicity with Bush

By Francis A. Boyle


...Congress must use its constitutional power of the purse to terminate the Bush Jr. administration’s wars of aggression immediately. Those Congressional incumbents of either political party who refuse to do so must be replaced by men and women of good faith and good will of any or no political party who will do their constitutional duty to terminate ongoing Nuremberg crimes against peace. To the contrary, the current leadership of the Democratic Party (though, to be sure, not all Democrats), let alone most of the Republicans, have been complicit with all the atrocities that the Bush Jr. administration has inflicted upon international law, international organizations, human rights, the United States Constitution, civil rights, civil liberties, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, and elsewhere since September 11, 2001.

Further confirmation of this proposition can be found in the fact that when the self-described Peace Mom Cindy Sheehan went on July 23, 2007 with 200 protesters to speak with Democratic Congressman John Conyers — Chair of the House Judiciary Committee that has supervisory jurisdiction over bills of impeachment — about starting impeachment proceedings against President Bush Jr., at the end of an hour Congressman Conyers ordered her and 45 others arrested for disorderly conduct when they refused to leave his office. In other words, one of the leaders of the Democratic Party arrested one of the leaders of the American Peace Movement for insisting that he and his congressional colleagues perform their constitutionally-mandated duties. Nothing could be more symptomatic of the constitutional, moral, and political bankruptcy of the so-called two-party system of politics in the United States of America: Republicans versus Democrats, Tweedle Dum versus Tweedle Dee.

Since the Democrats’ Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi had already ruled arbitrarily that President Bush’s impeachment was “off the table,” Peace Mom Cindy Sheehan announced her intention to run against Pelosi in the 2008 national elections. Once again Mrs. Sheehan’s instincts, principles, judgment, and strategy are directly on target. The American people must oppose, defeat, and replace all members of the United States Congress of any political party who will not impeach President Bush and Vice President Cheney in order to terminate their needlessly — inflicted death and destruction in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia as soon as possible. The so-called leaderships of both political parties have left the American people with no alternative. Even more urgently, the Neo-Conservative cabal known as the Bush Jr. administration are still threatening, planning, preparing, and conspiring to attack Iran, which could very well set-off World War III. Just recently they added nuclear-armed Pakistan to their publicly proclaimed list of targets.

Meanwhile, the Bush Jr. administration’s “surge” of 30,000 troops into Iraq announced in January of 2007 has marched on to its inexorable bloodbath for the Iraqi people and U.S. armed forces. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to conclude that the underlying strategy of the Bush Jr. administration is nothing more than to postpone their inevitable defeat in Iraq until after their departure from office in January 2009 no matter what the cost in lives to Iraqis and Americans. But the world cannot wait until January of 2009 for America to start to end these wars and their related war crimes, as well as to prevent more threatened wars, especially against Iran or Pakistan, which could prove catastrophic for humankind…

full article:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18159.htm

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By atheo, August 10, 2007 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

How the Democrats Blew It in Only 8 Months

By Alexander Cockburn

08/10/07 -—[from the August 27, 2007 issue of The Nation magazine]—- -Led by Democrats since the start of this year, Congress now has a “confidence” rating of 14 percent, the lowest since Gallup started asking the question in 1973 and five points lower than Republicans scored last year.

The voters put the Democrats in to end the war, and it’s escalating. The Democrats voted the money for the surge and the money for the next $459.6 billion military budget. Their latest achievement was to provide enough votes in support of Bush to legalize warrantless wiretapping for “foreign suspects whose communications pass through the United States.” Enough Democrats joined Republicans to make this a 227-183 victory for Bush. The Democrats control the House. Speaker Nancy Pelosi could have stopped the bill in its tracks if she’d wanted to. But she didn’t. The Democrats’ game is to go along with the White House agenda while stirring up dust storms to blind the base to their failure to bring the troops home or restore constitutional government.

The row over the US Attorneys and the conduct of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has always been something of a typhoon in a teaspoon. The Democrats love it, since they imagine it portrays them to the public as resolute guardians of the impartial administration of justice, a concept whose credibility most Americans sensibly deride. The Democrats now plan to track Gonzales’s firing of the US Attorneys back to that comic opera villain of the Bush era, Karl Rove, another great provoker of dust storms…

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By Fools on the Hill, August 10, 2007 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Noticed today a polling showing Congress has 13% approval.  Who are these 13 percenters?

One thing I find incredulous about the story.  If 20 of them met in Pelosi’s office, they would not have been able to vote aye, because 20 Dems plus Pelosi would never have been able to figure how to get out of the office.

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By atheo, August 10, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

No, the dims weren’t “trapped”. They can’t have it both ways. Sorry. Traitors to the constitution all.

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By Elder Earl, August 10, 2007 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

The Democrats showed their true colors as our President made a stand.  I which Bush could run again for another term.

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By felicity, August 10, 2007 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment

How sweet if would be if we had a category for ‘none of the above’ on our ballots.  Not likely given that politicians are in charge of our ballots.

What would happen if come election day nobody voted for anybody.  We showed up to vote, took our ballots into the voting booth, voted for anything but candidates, and turned in our ballots.  So, voter turn-out was huge but lo and behold voters didn’t vote for anybody.  Think about it.

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment

#93712 by Louise on 8/10 at 9:17 am
•  Or, perhaps he really doesn’t give a damn!
Louise, I think this is the bottom line. It’s a question I’ve been asking myself for years now. Is he REALLY that stupid, or does he just not give a damn. He just doesn’t give a damn, and there’s never been any reason for him to give a damn, so why would he now?

I honestly expected that at this point, the rest of his “party” would do something about him, if only because supporting him any longer will surely wipe them out. But, even though that’s been his only real job ever in life, (cheerleader at Yale) he seems to have lost his mascot spirit along with his pom-poms. No longer the mascot cheerleader of the party.

So, even though we always knew that he didn’t give a damn about the rest of us, it’s curious that he’d take the whole party down with him, and not give a damn about that either.

Meantime, I read recently that this latest atrocity, (the new all powerful spy bill)is NOT actually just a 6-month deal. It doesn’t grandfather out until the end of 2008.

It’s in the fine print. Wish I could find the piece, but it seems to elude me at the moment.

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By diogenes, August 10, 2007 at 11:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#93712 by Louise on 8/10 at 9:17 am
(83 comments total)

Louise, especially you, but everybody else too, this is the best batch of posts I’ve ever seen.  You’re finally getting it.  These democrats are phonies and have sold us down the river.  Vote these, what?, people?, no, not people, something different, pawns, no, something worse, automatons, robots, spawns, subhuman’s, no, traitors, yes that’s it, traitors! Out of office.  Can they be impeached?  I don’t know, but if they can be impeached then let’s do it.  Let’s get our Republic back, only we can do it.  Yeah!

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By Louise, August 10, 2007 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

How appropriate that directly above the picture of our very own “Idiot In Chief” we have the headline “Scott Ritter: Calling Out Idiot America!”

Perhaps the biggest single reason the aforementioned idiot continues on completely oblivious to the impact of his lies and duplicity is because he’s counting heavily on an “insanity” plea if he ever gets pulled into the docket!

Or, perhaps he really doesn’t give a damn!

Well, actually why should he? He has been given the keys to the kingdom. We all need to send a special “Thank You” card to our congressers. Thank you “little idiots” who stand in attendance to the “big idiot” who sits on the thrown. Thank you for helping this madman stay on the thrown. Thank you for all the grief and anguish every family who has lost a loved one suffers, because of him and YOU.

Thank you for promising to do something about it last year when you were running for office. Thank you for proving you can lie just as efficiently and without conscience as your king does. Thank you for showing us once and for all, we can not count on you.

Hope those of you who are going, enjoy your up-coming junket to Israel.

Why don’t you just stay there?
After all, no man can serve two masters, and it is disgustingly clear to all where your priorities are.

Oh, and thank you to the mass of idiots who still support the insanity republican leadership has become!

Yes media giants, presidential wannabees [save three] and red-state dumbbells, that means YOU!
And you know what? I have to put Pelosi and Reid on that list!

And one other thought for our congressional leaders Pelosi and Reid ... do either of you know how to spell? like IMPEACH!

Maybe that’s your problem, maybe that’s why you don’t understand what the people are saying!

I-M-P-E-A-C-H

And if you don’t know what that means, study that other thing you seem to not understand ...
The Constitution Of The United States!

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By purplewolf, August 10, 2007 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Well, what did the demos expect from this bunch of underhanded lying scumbags.G.Weeds administration never does anything in good faith.Never trust anyone who plays the “GOD” card, they are hiding something. The demos should know that by now. He lied when he said he would work with the new demo congress and he knew he lied the second he said it. Put impeachment and firing back on the table for this whole bunch of “creeping incompetants” and DO IT. America will not last with another 18 months of this morass until it cn be replaced. That is of course unless the weed decides to declare Martial Law, which he can’t wait to do at the sign of the next emergency, even if they stage it themselves and suspend the elections forever, which they are eagerly awaiting. Then he will have his dictatorship that he has always wanted for America since before 1996. It has been well documented that this is on the weeds mind. He has stated it at public appearances on numerous occassions “that American would be so much easier to run if it were a dictatorship”, then in later years he added “If I’m the dictator of course”. Scary thought and for even saying it should have been grounds to have him thrown of of office. He even said it at the 2004 “State of the Union Address” How’s that for gall. Also his grandfather weed helped to fund Hitler. No surprise then that he is going down that same road and it is time to stop it. He already has 800 prison camps set up in America run by FEMA, check it out for yourselves. One in Alaska can hold 2 million people. He also has train tracks leading to these camps. When the bridge collasped last week I found a goverment release about infrastructure spending and over half went to fund new train tracks, hardly anything for roads, bridges. Makes you wonder WHY? Also check out black boxes(train cars) and AGA gas company involvement with these FEMA relocation centers(prisons). It’s Nazi Germany II.

This administration is the real terrorists, always terrorizing the American public. They have been at the forefront of screaming the “terrorist are coming” sort of like the boy who cried wolf all the time. When ever things don’t go Georges way he throws a temper tantrum and hollers “terrorists. Like screaming fire in a crowded theater,this should be illegal, his childish behavior has to end.

Ben Franklin said it best” Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty or Security”.

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By Skruff, August 10, 2007 at 9:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The powerful folks at the top of our government have never (since John Adams) been happy with “regulaar folks” in control.  The idea that these folks (whom our press refer to as “leaders”) are actually our employees sticks in their craw, and makes them all (Ds&Rs; alike) act to deconstruct the documentthat gives us the power.

Fat lazy ass-sitting citizens have opped out of the responsibility business.  This government could not do what it has done without the support of you, your friends, and your neighbors. It is not congress that has “ceded” their power and responsibility, it is the people.  We had the opportunity to vote them out at least three times since they started this foolishness, but most of the folks sitting in the Senate and House in 2001 are still there six years and three congressional elections later.  That’s not their fault!

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By dick, August 10, 2007 at 9:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ask yourself, what are the desirable qualifictions of a leader? Integrity, wisdom, knowledge, experience, prudence, etc. And what do we have in our leaders? Arrogance, ignorance, recklesness, dishonesty, cupidity, etc.

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By Emily Anne, August 10, 2007 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

The Democrats have provided more than ample reason not to vote for any of them. Since the Republicans have already proven unviable leaders, the only alternative left is to form other parties offering other candidates. People tell me this would only throw the election to the Republicans. I tell them that’s too bad, that I don’t believe we’ve been given any choice and that unless we take such risks, we merely preserve the status quo. We need and want change. Both parties have failed us. Kiss is right - it’s time to play hardball.

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farmertx's avatar

By farmertx, August 10, 2007 at 9:00 am Link to this comment

Punted is overly generous; sold out is more apt.
Congress Critter’s need to start reading some of the mail that doesn’t have fat checks enclosed.
Then they would see that roughly 2/3 of the country will not trust the Shrub or his designated liars on anything.
Yes, he was, or rather Der Karl was, very adept at hollering the terrorist’s are coming to get all his measures approved.
Now, proving Lincolns’ maxim that ya can’t fool all the people all the time, that terrorist threat is seen by most as a ploy.
Terrorist’s are still a real danger, just not to the level Shrub and Co want us to fear.
When the Congress Critter’s come back from their vacation, they need to get down to the serious business of removing this clueless, incompetent and immoral administration.
Because until that is done, nothing will be allowed to happen that will benefit all American’s. Just the richest. And that ain’t the America I grew up in.

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By 127001, August 10, 2007 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

And people are considering electing ANY ONE of these to be next president? Nauseating.

Our representatives have no backbone. They are also without integrity and have sold out this country and, indeed, the world, to tyrrany. They are afraid of a bull in an empty ring.

As Tierney said: ““when you give up your rights under the Constitution, it is not likely you are going to regain them.”

They are really gone. Look around people, when you start whining when they come for YOU.

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By diogenes, August 10, 2007 at 8:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The dem’s “punt” on national security?  I think the word fail is more appropriate.  The dem’s have utterly failed their constituency in and at the worst possible time.  This constituency is 67% of us.  The last time I checked that was an overwhelming majority.  So why this over-riding fear?  Fear of what?
Is this part of some complicity with the republicans? 
Are we truly being sold down the proverbial river by both parties?
Have we been betrayed?
Are we really that; what?  Stupid, naive, lazy, apathetic, greedy, you choose the appropriate adjective.  I just have questions for which I personally, have no answers.  I am very confused; not mind you, about what must be done, but, I’m confused by the lack of any meaningful response by you/me/us to this terror.  Anybody?

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By kevin99999, August 10, 2007 at 7:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If the Democrat leadership thought even for a second that the Director of Homeland Security would be calling the shots on national legislation and not the White House, it just shows how naive is the Democratic leadership.

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By KISS, August 10, 2007 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

On every threat the dimmos cave-in. The leadership of Pelosi and Reid are defunct,Nada, and ignoring the duties of congress. All Bush has to do is whine and whimper and the dimmos run and hide. Congress needs Cindy Sheehan, she has balls.
The other part of the equation is: Will the media ask the dimmo candidates if they are willing to destruct the ” Patriot Act”, and Executive Order 51; and do away with NAFTA and other free trade give-away programs of such? How about border security? I’m so tired of hackneyed soft ball questions, time to play hardball.

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