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Posted on Aug 6, 2007
Bloody hand
AP Photo / Hameed Rasheed

By Chris Hedges

The war in Iraq is about to get worse—much worse.  The Democrats’ decision to let the war run its course, while they frantically wash their hands of responsibility, means that it will sputter and stagger forward until the mission collapses.  This will be sudden.  The security of the Green Zone, our imperial city, will be increasingly breached.  Command and control will disintegrate.  And we will back out of Iraq humiliated and defeated.  But this will not be the end of the conflict.  It will, in fact, signal a phase of the war far deadlier and more dangerous to American interests. 

Iraq no longer exists as a unified country.  The experiment that was Iraq, the cobbling together of disparate and antagonistic patches of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious powers in the wake of World War I, belongs to the history books.  It will never come back.  The Kurds have set up a de facto state in the north, the Shiites control most of the south and the center of the country is a battleground.  There are 2 million Iraqis who have fled their homes and are internally displaced. Another 2 million have left the country, most to Syria and Jordan, which now has the largest number of refugees per capita of any country on Earth. An Oxfam report estimates that one in three Iraqis are in need of emergency aid, but the chaos and violence is so widespread that assistance is impossible.  Iraq is in a state of anarchy.  The American occupation forces are one more source of terror tossed into the caldron of suicide bombings, mercenary armies, militias, massive explosions, ambushes, kidnappings and mass executions.  But wait until we leave.

It was not supposed to turn out like this.  Remember all those visions of a democratic Iraq, visions peddled by the White House and fatuous pundits like Thomas Friedman and the gravel-voiced morons who pollute our airwaves on CNN and Fox News?  They assured us that the war would be a cakewalk.  We would be greeted as liberators.  Democracy would seep out over the borders of Iraq to usher in a new Middle East.  Now, struggling to salvage their own credibility, they blame the debacle on poor planning and mismanagement.

There are probably about 10,000 Arabists in the United States—people who have lived for prolonged periods in the Middle East and speak Arabic.  At the inception of the war you could not have rounded up more than about a dozen who thought this was a good idea.  And I include all the Arabists in the State Department, the Pentagon and the intelligence community.  Anyone who had spent significant time in Iraq knew this would not work.  The war was not doomed because Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz did not do sufficient planning for the occupation.  The war was doomed, period.  It never had a chance.  And even a cursory knowledge of Iraqi history and politics made this apparent.

This is not to deny the stupidity of the occupation.  The disbanding of the Iraqi army; the ham-fisted attempt to install the crook and, it now turns out, Iranian spy Ahmed Chalabi in power; the firing of all Baathist public officials, including university professors, primary school teachers, nurses and doctors; the failure to secure Baghdad and the vast weapons depots from looters; allowing heavily armed American units to blast their way through densely populated neighborhoods, giving the insurgency its most potent recruiting tool—all ensured a swift descent into chaos.  But Iraq would not have held together even if we had been spared the gross incompetence of the Bush administration.  Saddam Hussein, like the more benign dictator Josip Broz Tito in the former Yugoslavia, understood that the glue that held the country together was the secret police.     

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Iraq, however, is different from Yugoslavia.  Iraq has oil—lots of it.  It also has water in a part of the world that is running out of water.  And the dismemberment of Iraq will unleash a mad scramble for dwindling resources that will include the involvement of neighboring states.  The Kurds, like the Shiites and the Sunnis, know that if they do not get their hands on water resources and oil they cannot survive.  But Turkey, Syria and Iran have no intention of allowing the Kurds to create a viable enclave.  A functioning Kurdistan in northern Iraq means rebellion by the repressed Kurdish minorities in these countries. The Kurds, orphans of the 20th century who have been repeatedly sold out by every ally they ever had, including the United States, will be crushed.  The possibility that Iraq will become a Shiite state, run by clerics allied with Iran, terrifies the Arab world.  Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia, the United States and Israel, would most likely keep the conflict going by arming Sunni militias.  This anarchy could end with foreign forces, including Iran and Turkey, carving up the battered carcass of Iraq.  No matter what happens, many, many Iraqis are going to die.  And it is our fault. 

The neoconservatives—and the liberal interventionists, who still serve as the neocons’ useful idiots when it comes to Iran—have learned nothing.  They talk about hitting Iran and maybe even Pakistan with airstrikes.  Strikes on Iran would ensure a regional conflict.  Such an action has the potential of drawing Israel into war—especially if Iran retaliates for any airstrikes by hitting Israel, as I would expect Tehran to do.  There are still many in the U.S. who cling to the doctrine of pre-emptive war, a doctrine that the post-World War II Nuremberg laws define as a criminal “war of aggression.”
 
The occupation of Iraq, along with the Afghanistan occupation, has only furthered the spread of failed states and increased authoritarianism, savage violence, instability and anarchy.  It has swelled the ranks of our real enemies—the Islamic terrorists—and opened up voids of lawlessness where they can operate and plot against us.  It has scuttled the art of diplomacy.  It has left us an outlaw state intent on creating more outlaw states.  It has empowered Iran, as well as Russia and China, which sit on the sidelines gleefully watching our self-immolation.  This is what George W. Bush and all those “reluctant hawks” who supported him have bequeathed us. 

What is terrifying is not that the architects and numerous apologists of the Iraq war have learned nothing, but that they may not yet be finished.
 
Chris Hedges, the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times, spent seven years in the Middle East.  He was part of the paper’s team of reporters who won the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of global terrorism.  He is the author of “War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.”  His latest book is “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America.” 


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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

#92956 by Lefty on 8/07 at 3:49 pm
I agree, it is often used pejoratively, but the term is not mutually exclusive; that is, the word might be true in one or the other sense…glad to see there is someone familiar with logic on this thread.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

#92944 by Lefty on 8/07 at 3:17 pm
The United States Agency for International Development (USAID) believes that they are helping Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza lead healthier and more productive lives.
Since 1993, they have given Palestinians more than $1.7 billion in U.S. economic assistance via USAID projects –that, by-the-way more than from any other donor country, including the oil rich ones.
Which phrasemongers and windbags- who draw their arguments from sewers and drainpipes- of course ignore.
Why…in hopes that they will one day see the benefit of becoming a social Democracy instead of a Theocracy.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

#92943 by atheo on 8/07 at 3:12 pm
“…conspiracy theories are very popular and appealing. Even when they don’t make sense and there’s just no proof, many people still believe them. Why?
One big reason for this is that some conspiracy theorists are clever. They use psychology to make their theories sound more plausible. They appeal to certain psychological phenomena which make people to tend to believe them. However, these psychological tricks are nothing more than logical fallacies. They are simply so well disguised that many people can’t see them for what they are.
“Here are some typical logical fallacies used by conspiracy theorists: “
http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/conspiracytheories.html

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By cognitorex, August 7, 2007 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Winning and Democracy in Iraq are Oxymoronic Concepts
(How a Chalabi “Palm-ocracy” could never happen.)


Iraq (as with its neighbors) was ruled by brutality and armed suppression before America began its occupation.
Iraq (as with its neighbors) will be ruled by brutality and armed suppression after the U.S. leaves.
No amount of troops or time frame under a half century will alter this formula.
America seeks to align itself with this, to-be-decided, new ruling force.
That this new ruling force will be a democracy is oxymoronic.
That the new ruling force will be a democracy aligned with the interests of the U.S. is even yet more naively ridiculous.
What the Cheney/neocon aggressors wanted and could have best hoped for, no matter how incompetent in assessing the tribal/religious nature of Iraq they were, would be to establish a “palmocracy.”
When Arafat died I opined that hopefully, eventually, a Sunni palmocrat of Arafat’s scheming mold would appear who would collect the graft and grease together a new working government. Tribes, religions, criminal elements, power seekers, moneyed neighbors with agendas and foreign born terrorists , as a mix, simply overwhelm this possibility.
Chalabi as a symbol of what a palmocracy might be was so enticing. Oh well!
Brutality and suppression will eventually create a new Iraq. The Iraqis want America out now. This desire can only increase.
It is entirely illogical that a ruling body will appear from the ashes of Iraq that will kiss the hand of its invader.
—One last tip, if you can, by stock in Crescent Condominium Development Limited. It’s listed on the Iranian Stock Exchange and is reputedly a real favorite of the Mullahs.—

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

Jeffrey Blankfort:

On March 13th, 2003, during a House appro-priations subcommittee hearing on foreign aid, of which Israel has long been the dominant recipient [7], Secretary of State Colin Powell took the extraordinary step of assuring members of Congress that a “small cabal” of pro-Israeli American Jews was not orchestrating President George W. Bush’s drive toward war.

“The strategy with respect to Iraq has derived from our interest in the region and our support of U.N. resolutions over time,” Powell said, in response to a question from the subcommittee’s Republican chairman, Arizona Rep. Jim Kolbe.

“It is not driven by any small cabal that is buried away somewhere, that is telling President Bush or me or Vice President Cheney or [National Security Adviser Condoleeza] Rice or other members of the administration what our policies should be.”[8]

In fact, there is a cabal that has been driving U.S. foreign policy under the Bush administration, and some of its members; notably, Elliot Abrams and Michael Ledeeen, were part of the last cabal that operated in Washington under the Reagan administration, the one that brought us the Iran-Contra scandal. This one, however, is not nearly as secretive. Ironically, Powell has been and remains one of its favorite targets, and his frequent public humiliations at the cabal’s hands have led seasoned observers to wonder why he hasn’t resigned.

On this occasion, as he had on others, Powell played the loyal soldier, joining in what Ha’aretz’s Nathan Guttman described as the Bush Administration’s “Every effort to play down Israel’s role in the future military conflict… to remove any suspicion that the decision to go to war with Iraq is a pro-Israeli… step. But, as hard as the administration tries,” he wrote, “the voices linking Israel to the war are getting louder and louder. It is claimed the desire to help Israel is the major reason for President George Bush sending American soldiers to a superfluous war in the Gulf.” [9]

http://www.leftcurve.org/LC28WebPages/WarForIsrael.html

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

#92932 by Non Credo on 8/07 at 2:48 pm

Throwing rocks from behind fences is what children do, they are ignorant enough to believe that they can’t be seen.

Also any one who has had logic 101 knows that you set-up a strawman…but then you probably don’t even what that means. Do you!

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By dajson, August 7, 2007 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We’ve been played for fools by this war and we all know it, and we can’t do anything about it.  This war has ruthlessly looted our treasury, provided cover for a domestic power grab as well as protecting Bush from Impeachment, and has made Haliburton with thier greedy accomplish-nothing ilk the only real winners in this war.  Wake up America, this is no way to stop a coup.  This is no way to save America from suicide.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Aside from being intellectually dishonest, when a person, copies and pastes, in the fashion you have it is illegal, both for you and for Truthdig.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

A borderless state is no solution
8/7/07
guardian.co.uk

For weeks now, America and Israel have talked up the idea that, contrary to all appearances, a peace initiative may be afoot in the Middle East. Last week Condoleezza Rice, announced a $63bn package in military aid to the Middle East, aiming to counter Iran’s growing influence in the region, but also shoring up Arab support for a peace initiative. Yesterday Olmert met the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank town of Jericho. Mr Olmert said that Israel and the Palestinians would expand negotiations to “formulate a framework” that would allow both sides to move towards establishing a Palestinian state. These meetings lay the groundwork for a regional summit including Saudi Arabia, in Washington in November. Ms Rice has vowed it will be more than a photo-opportunity.
Tackling Iran’s nuclear ambitions may be a higher priority in Washington than ending the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, but the two are inseparably linked. The support of Saudi Arabia and other Arab states against Iran still requires movement on Palestine. The question is how much and in what direction. On the immediate issues facing the Palestinian Authority - lifting the roadblocks, dismantling settlements, releasing prisoners, restoring tax revenue - there has been little progress in the West Bank, and none at all in Gaza, which is cut off from the outside world. Israel released 255 prisoners last month as well as some of the withheld revenue. But these are small steps, given what remains to be done.

On the distant issues - the so-called final status issues of the future borders of a Palestinian state, the right of return of Palestinian refugees from the 1948 war, and the status of Jerusalem - no progress has been achieved since the last talks ended seven years ago. Mr Olmert refuses to discuss “core issues” on the pretext that failure to reach agreement on them could jeopardise progress on the smaller ones. That leaves talks about an intermediate stage. These would be about a Palestinian state with provisional borders, the stage of negotiation that was originally envisaged in phase two of the road map. By attempting to jump straight to this stage, without first negotiating an end to the occupation, Israel is leading Mr Abbas into dangerous waters.

Without pinning Israel to specifics, a putative state would be a Palestinian nightmare, leaving vital questions unanswered and no timetable for answering them. The Palestinian people have already been split into two, when Hamas took over military control of Gaza. A Palestinian state would be split into many more pieces if it accepted the status of an entity with no borders, no sovereignty and no viable economy. Mr Abbas, a veteran of the Oslo process which created the road map, knows this. But he is attempting to extract tangible benefits with which to shore up his presidency. Yesterday he asked Mr Olmert to release more of the 11,000 Palestinian prisoners Israel still holds. Hamas may have been excluded from the international arena, but it has not disappeared from the local one. Hamas still retains the power to challenge Fatah’s rule in the West Bank. The West Bank is not under complete Fatah control and, as the prime minister, Salam Fayad, admitted yesterday, PA security forces are unable to impose law and order, even on their own turf.

Rather than address Hamas as a political fact in Gaza, Israel has chosen to divide and rule, even though it concedes that no settlement can be made with a divided Palestinian people. Israelis often question Palestinians’ real acceptance of the state of Israel. But the same question could now be asked of Israel. If a two state solution is anything more than declarative, will it really accept a viable Palestinian state? Now would be a good time for Israel to start showing that it would.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

#92913 by GodSend on 8/07 at 2:02 pm

So this is what you try abd pass off for intelligent discourse…the inference from that is very telling…pity.

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By Evan W., August 7, 2007 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

#92705 by cyrena on 8/06 at 9:13 pm
(681 comments total)
I’m tired of hearing that if we aren’t around, (or, “leave them to their own devices”) is going to result in the mass murder of 5.5 million Jews. This is rhetoric and propaganda.
________________________________
I stand (somewhat) corrected:

I would agree that Israel is by far the most powerful of various factions involved in the Middle East. A US foreign policy that aims for peace should accurately reflect that. Orthodox Israeli settlers are probalby the most dangerous people in the world right now. The fact that there are only 5.5 million Jewish people in Israel (plus their history) makes them very, very paranoid. However, I don’t think that the best course of action for the USA would be to simply pack up and watch what happens.

A lot of problems there have indeed been caused by meddling of foreign superpowers, whether they were Britain/France, the USA, or the USSR. But if the American government were to quit meddling (maybe we found another energy source than oil), governments supported by America would immediately collapse (Saudi Arabia, for one), and Israel would slowly bleed dry. I can’t help but think that this situation would be even more dangerous than the current reality. If it ever came to the point where Israel’s military superiority were weakened enough that neighboring countries (or religious fanatics) tried to take advantage of it and started killing people, I’d have no trouble in believing that some off-kilter general would nuke everyone in sight.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment

Hey, BA - that wasn’t a personal attack on you - that was giving you the benefit of the doubt. wink Your benefits just ran out.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

Oh, BA did you start ‘smoking something’ just recently - or have you been ‘smoking something’ for most of your life? If the BA fits, wear it, I guess! smile

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

BA:

So tell us then, you big BA, where did the Nubians come from before Adam and Eve were created? Or do you mean that Adam and Eve were both Nubians and were created by some other ‘Entity’ and not God? Or perhaps you mean that Adam was a Jew and he married outside his religion? Oy veh!

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Howard - why doesn’t Israel just give the land they stole (or the UN stole for them) back to their rightful owners (or their heirs) and be done with it?! Why would any sane person leave their land and home for some unknown destination - unless they were coerced, bribed or otherwise threatened? Perhaps their wells were poisoned andsome of them had to leave to survive? You mean all those Arabs who lived happily in Palestine in 1948 were insane? Are you, perhaps, a Palestinian too?

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

atheo:

Thanks for revealing BA’s true identity. Tribal Jew it is! Seems to me that he’s not the only tribal Jew around here! wink

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By Howard, August 7, 2007 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

In 1948, on the day of the proclamation of the State of Israel, five Arab armies invaded the new country from all sides. In frightful radio broadcasts, they urged the Arabs living there to leave, so that the invading armies could operate without interference. They could return after the expected quick victory in that “holy war,” get their property back — and that of the Jews. Things turned out differently. The invading armies were defeated. Those who had left became refugees — people without a country. Those who stayed, and their children, are full-fledged citizens of the State of Israel.

These so-called “Palestinian refugees” have not been allowed to settle in the “indivisible Arab nation.” They have been supported in camps since 1948. So far, over $2.0 billion has been spent on their maintenance. No end is in sight. Who pays for that? You guessed it: Through UNWRA Relief, the United States contributes more than 60% of the total cost.
The Arab countries, among them some of the richest in the world, who fritter away their enormous fortunes on frivolous luxuries, are satisfied to leave their Arab brethren in those miserable camps. They have never contributed a penny to their maintenance.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

BA:

Now we KNOW that you belong in an insane asylum! smile Before, I was just guessing. wink

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

PS to Howard:

No wonder you’re ‘amazed’ and ‘know of nothing’ - that’s what living under a rock does to you! wink Everything in this universe is connected, Howard, believe it or not. Iraq is connected to Israel (really), Perle is connected to Zionism, Bush is connected to God-only-knows who, Feith is connected to Cheney, Hedges is connected to his Zionist boss at the NY Times, etc. Finally, Howard, your brain is connected to your you-know-what - perhaps in more ways than you realize! wink

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

#92875 by GodSend on 8/07 at 1:05 pm

I can always tell when I have a winning argument…my opponent’s fallback on personal attacks.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

Commentary: Embarrassing history
By ARNAUD DE BORCHGRAVE
UPI Editor at Large
WASHINGTON, Aug. 6 (UPI)—The Palestinians call Israel’s 1948 war of independence their nakba, or catastrophic ethnic cleansing, or forced exile. The Israelis, for their part, have steadfastly rejected any suggestion of ethnic cleansing as calumny in all its anti-Semitic horror.

Historic revisionism is now under way. Without fanfare, just below the media radar screen, the Israeli Education Ministry has approved a textbook for Arab third-graders in Israel that concedes the war that gave birth to Israel was a “nakba” for the Palestinians. The textbook refers to the “expulsion” of some of the Palestinians and the “confiscation of many Arab-owned lands.”

“The first Jewish militia attacks, says Pappe, began before the May 1948 end of the British mandate. In December 1947 two villages in the central plain—Deir Ayyub and Beit Affa—were raided, and their panicked Palestinian inhabitants fled. Jewish leaders gave the order to drive out as many Palestinians as possible on March 10, 1948. The terror campaign ended six months later. Pappe writes 531 Palestinian villages were destroyed, and 11 urban neighborhoods in cities were emptied of their Palestinian inhabitants.”

full article:

http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging_Threats/Analysis/2007/08/06/commentary_embarrassing_history/1248/print_view/

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By dfbated@aol.com, August 7, 2007 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges has my unbounded admiration for his superb analysis of the making and likely outcomes of the Iraq catastrophe.  As an old-line conservative with radical sympathies, I was four-square against The White House’s lethal, immoral aggression. A judicious (I hope) blog reader, I am happy to see a front against the aggression expounded by experts from across the presently accepted political spectrum.  Admirable people all.

Thanks, Mr. Hedges.

Francis Lawrence

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Godsend,

You don’t understand. BA is not a religious or ethnic Jew, he’s a tribal Jew.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 2:21 pm Link to this comment

#92870 by GodSend on 8/07 at 12:56 pm
(Smile)  ….We are all Nubian, as far as it can be determined, but not Jewish.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

B.A. you just can’t stop lying:

Why did seven well equipped Arab armies attempt to destroy the poorly armed and newly founded ‘Jewish State’?

The baseless myth, of how the Arab armies wanted to destroy the ‘Jewish State’, has been propagated in all sectors of the Israeli society, especially in its school system, military boot camps, and media. As it will be proven below, this myth was deemed necessary by most Zionists to legitimize their continued USURPATION of the Palestinian people’s political, civil, and economic rights.

Often when Israelis and Zionists are confronted with facts contrary to their liking, they counter by accusing the sources of fabrication or being part of the “anti-Semitic” Arab propaganda. To avoid such a “confusion”, we’ll directly quote two of the most prominent pro-Israeli historians, Martin Van Creveld (the renowned Israeli military strategist and historian) and Martin Gilbert, who wrote:

“In the Event of invading [Arab] forces were limited to approximately 30,000 men. The strongest [consider this fact while reading the next quote] single contingent was the Jordanian one, already described. Next came Egyptians with 5,500 men, then the Iraqis with 4,500 who ..... were joined by perhaps 3,000 local irregulars. The total was thus around eight rather under strength brigades, some of them definitely of second-and even third-rate quality. To these must be added approximately 2,000 Lebanese (one brigade) and 6,000 Syrians (three brigades). Thus, even though the Arab countries [population] outnumbered the Yishuv by better then forty-to-one, in terms of military manpower available for combat in Palestine the two sides were fairly evenly matched. As time went on and both sides sent reinforcements the balance changed in the Jews’ favor; by October they had almost 90,000 men and women under arms, the Arabs only 68,000.” (The Sword And The Olive, p. 77-78)

“Senior Hagana commanders met with committee [UN Special Committee On Palestine-UNSCOP] members in Jerusalem’s Talpiot quarter in similarly surreptitious circumstances to express confidence that Jewish forces, which they numbered at 90,000, including 35,000 reservists, could overcome any Arab assault should it come to war.” (Jerusalem Post)

“Ben-Gurion made serious efforts, shortly before the United Nations vote on the Partition proposal, to seek the neutrality of King Abdullah of Transjordan, whose British trained and officered army, the Arab Legion, was the STRONGEST fighting force in the Middle East. The king had long been at loggerheads with Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, for the moral leadership of the Arabs of the whole region. Abdullah’s secret interlocutor was to be Golda Meir:”’ ...... He [King Abudullah] soon made the heart of the matter clear: he would not join in any Arab attack on us. He would always remain our friend, he said, and like us, he wanted peace more than anything else. After all, we had a common foe, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini.’”(Israel: A History, p.149-150)

“As for Abdullah’s Arab Legion, it had fought better than any other Arab force. Yet on scarcely any occasion had the Arab Legion attempted to conquer territories allotted to the Jews by the partition plan, preferring to stay on the defensive.” (The Sword And The Olive, p. 95)

“.... there was no common military headquarters, no attempts at coordinating the offenses of the Arab armies, and ... not even a regular liaison service for sharing enemy intelligence.” (The Sword And The Olive, p. 83)

“Perhaps the most important [of the Arab armies problems] was a crippled shortage of ammunition, owing to the international arms embargo ...

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story457.html

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

This may come as ‘shock and awe’ to you, Howard, but the Iraq invasion and occupation is a creation of the Neocons who inhabit Wash. DC (aka Zionists - you know, people like Abrams, Feith and Perle). Have you heard of them?

Have you been hiding under a rock? Better get back under before the light of truth blinds you! wink

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

Hey, BA, I think they should ‘move you’ to an insane asylum (for protection’s sake). Does ‘move you’ mean the same as ‘extraordinary rendition’? Maybe they should ‘move you’ to Egypt, Romania or Poland (for your protection’s sake!). Deception is of the Devil, BA! Are you sure BA doesn’t stand for Bullshit Artist? It must be serendipity! smile

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By Howard, August 7, 2007 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

A pretty good article from Chris Hedges here. On our (U.S ‘s ) involvement in Iraq. Yes, Iraq.

But I notice that the majority of comments are on bashing/critising Israel and Zionism. No connection that I know of. Amazing that some others are certain beyond doubt of a connection !

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

BA:

Your bastardization of the English language is worthy of George Orwell’s “1984” BIG BROTHER. Do you speak any languages besides Doublespeak? Your mind must be as twisted as one of Dubya’s pretzels! wink

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

#92862 by GodSend on 8/07 at 12:38 pm
“[E]thnic cleansing [...] defies easy definition. At one end it is virtually indistinguishable from forced emigration and population exchange while at the other it merges with deportation and genocide. At the most general level, however, ethnic cleansing can be understood as the expulsion of an “undesirable” population from a given territory due to religious or ethnic discrimination, political, strategic or ideological considerations, or a combination of these”

I know the Capitalist does this by where and how they invest Capital accumulation; but that is usually with a disregard for the human factor, and strictly for the profit motive. So it depends on the context to what the word means. So no, in no sense is Israel is guilty of ethnic cleansing, they are moving populations for protection sake.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 1:56 pm Link to this comment

BA:

Are you SURE you’re not ‘Jewish’? Check your ancestry! wink

PS You may have to go all the way back to Eve! We’re all ‘Jewish’ but we’re not all Zionists wink

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment

#92857 by GodSend on 8/07 at 12:11 pm


You mean collectively known to Jew baiters, anti-Americans and Religious bigots…that is who know them as Zionists. Otherwise, among reasoning people they are known as typical Bourgeoisie Capitalist.

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By Synchronicity, August 7, 2007 at 1:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If America wanted to get back it’s respect from the world and forgiven by the Muslims for it’s crimes and murders of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. They will have to do one thing. If all America had to do was arrest Dick and Bush and company,  put them on trial and say they we’re sorry, would they do it? 

No. And you know why? Because America’s self elected mafia system they call a government,  is too full of itself to ever admit it made any kind of mistake and would rather go down the shit hole and take shit -for - brains America down to hell with them and their proxy dictators.

For America, as always, it’s all for them or nothing for nobody.
And for fucks sake, stop pretending your the good guys, pretty damn sickening.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

BA:

You hit the nail on the head in your last post:

I know nothing of that happening in Israel…

Do some homework, and you’ll learn plenty (about Israeli Zionists performing massacres and ‘ethnic cleansing’ of Arabs in Palestine - long before and long after 1948!)

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

The world, and the U.S. Jews, did not promise the land owning Palestinians that they would safe-guard that property while they killed the Jews… that was the Arab promise; and then when a few Jews beat the Great War machines of the Arabs, the Arabs refused to take in the Palestinians.

I’m familiar with the second-class Arab citizenship…but ethnic cleansing! You mean something like Saddam did in Iraq? Or what happened with the Serbs? Then there was Germany, but I know nothing of that happening in Israel… of course the Arabs tried, but have failed thus far with the Jews; not that they would not like to, that fact, has much to do with Arab Israeli citizens being treated as second-class. I’m afraid if the Terrorist become successful in America…Arab American citizens will too become second-class out of necessity.

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By GodSend, August 7, 2007 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment

Those ‘dual citizens’ and their ‘front men’ stooges (like BushCo), are collectively known as ZIONISTS! They are not only America’s worst enemies (or traitors), they are humanity’s worst enemies - worshipers in the ‘Synagogue of Satan’.

Want to dig a little deeper?

Visit:  http://smokingmirrors.blogspot.com

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

Mudwollow,

Our REAL enemies are the dual citizens running our foreign policy and homeland security.

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By Mudwollow, August 7, 2007 at 12:20 pm Link to this comment

“The occupation of Iraq, along with the Afghanistan occupation, has only furthered the spread of failed states and increased authoritarianism, savage violence, instability and anarchy.  It has swelled the ranks of our real enemies—the Islamic terrorists—and opened up voids of lawlessness where they can operate and plot against us.  It has scuttled the art of diplomacy.  It has left us an outlaw state intent on creating more outlaw states.  It has empowered Iran, as well as Russia and China, which sit on the sidelines gleefully watching our self-immolation.  This is what George W. Bush and all those “reluctant hawks” who supported him have bequeathed us.”

Mr. Bush has created a real and seemingly legitimate market for the military-industrial complex were none before existed. Now that’s a legacy.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

B.A.

1)I have no interest in your religion.

2)Why do you fault the Arabs for betraying the Palestinians. It’s obvious the entire worrld is as guilty. The most guilty party would likely be US Jews.

3) You seem to be in denial about the intolerable second class status of ethnic Arab citizens of the Israeli entity and also the ethnic cleansing that has been stidily underway.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

Yes, I responded to Chris and his disciples here.. .  #92531 by Bill Abernathy on 8/06 at 8:52 am

•  ‘So far I appear to be the only one who questions this self-proclaimed “Profit of Doom”. Of course I’m not blessed like so many others with “Visionary clarity;” so I just have to take a wait-and-see position. What bothers me is that Chris and his disciples seem to relish the idea that Iraq will not become a Social Democracy.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

#92819 by atheo on 8/07 at 9:18 am


First of all I am not a Jew; in fact some people call me an Atheist and a Marxist of the Trotsky stripe.

I have no illusions about the atrocities that the Jews have committed; just as I have no illusions about the atrocities other governments have committed. But first I am a Philosopher and a Historian who understands the relativity, and not the Ideal of government. Nor do I have any illusions about the one sided arguments that I am getting in the comments section on this News Article.

Many thousand of Palestinians did not join the Exodus which we have just spoken about, and they were not harmed, nor their property taken.

But here we are just talking about one point in time, when I was speaking about the decades leading up to that time…the 1920s and 30s. That was when land was unquestionably purchased.

Since the beginning of time borders have moved in the course of time, one only need to look at Europe, and then the world conquest of Imperial Europe. The Israelites won that land in battle, and unlike the European and Roman Imperialist occupied the land with people, not just garrisons like the British did; they bought that land with their blood when attacked by Arabs.

As I have said before, the Arabs betrayed the Palestinians.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 10:18 am Link to this comment

B.A.

Your myths may make you feel good, but they are nothing but myths. The “sale” of land requires a seller:

With all due respect for the ‘blue box’
By Meron Benvenisti

In his article “Mazuz versus Herzl” (Haaretz, May 25), Israel Harel reminds us that we grew up on the ethos of the Jewish National Fund’s “blue box” for donations, whereby thanks to our small coins, the JNF’s lands were redeemed. He writes: “The JNF owns 2.5 million dunam (625,000 acres) in Israel. They were bought - I must tell you today, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz and the justices of the Supreme Court in its capacity as the High Court of Justice - ‘dunam by dunam, clod by clod,’ so they would become the ‘Jewish people’s eternal property,’ in accordance with the principle established by modern Zionism’s founder, Theodor Herzl, at the Fifth Zionist Congress in 1901.”

Harel is entitled to object to Mazuz’s decision, and even to warn the Supreme Court justices not to dare to apply the principle of nondiscrimination between Jews and Arabs in allocating lands. But there is no doubt that he would not want his arguments to be based on incorrect facts and an untruthful rewriting of history, thereby opening a Pandora’s box.

For Israel Harel’s information: Of the more than 2.5 million dunams owned by the JNF, two million dunams were not purchased with the small coins put into the blue boxes, but were rather lands abandoned by Arabs that David Ben-Gurion, in a typical maneuver, “sold” to the JNF in 1949-1950. The first deal was clinched on January 27, 1949. It included the sale of a million dunams of abandoned land in various areas in return for about 18 million Israeli pounds.

This was an improper and also an illegal decision. The Israeli government sold the JNF lands that it did not own, but which had rather been captured in the war (and even the laws that it had enacted by then did not grant the state ownership of these lands). Ben-Gurion thereby…established a political fact that barred the way to the refugees’ return.

A week before the decision on the sale of the million dunams, the United Nations General Assembly had passed Resolution 194, under which the refugees were to be permitted to return to their homes, and if they chose not to return, they would receive compensation. Ben-Gurion did not want Israel’s sovereignty to be sullied by matters that stank of illegality, deviation from international norms and immorality.

The heads of the JNF knew very well that the sale was illegal, but it was important to them to establish that the JNF would continue serving as the institution that held the Jewish people’s lands and developed them for purposes of settlement.

In October 1950, the government sold another million dunams to the JNF, and in this fashion, about 40 percent of the abandoned lands were transferred to its possession. Thus the JNF’s land holdings, which on the eve of the state’s establishment had amounted to about 900,000 dunams (out of about 1.8 million under Jewish ownership), more than tripled.

The distinction between voluntary purchases from Arab owners during the period of the Mandate and “the redemption of lands” from the hands of the Israeli government was blurred, and the lands of the uprooted Arabs became the lands of the Jewish people, covered by the JNF leasing laws, which prohibit leasing them to non-Jews. In this way, a principle was established that discriminates between Jewish citizens of Israel and Arab citizens, from whose uprooted fellow-Arabs the land was confiscated (or “purchased”) and for which the original owners received no compensation at all.

Israel Harel would do well to take care not to exploit myths that are precious to many of us for his own ideological purposes.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=864483

Maybe you should find another venue for your zionist propaganda.

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By I know that I know nothing, August 7, 2007 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Tony Wicher:

Of course I know that some responses will amount to nothing but the same old bs.  One can have a bs meter without claiming to have any knowledge of substance.  Indeed it is the very possession of a bs meter that makes one realize how little one knows.  Alas, that is probably too much for all you dogmatists out there.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

#92672 by atheo on 8/06 at 6:26 pm


Atheo

You ask on what land they settled…on land they purchased. The few who had not been there for centuries began by purchasing land from the Ottomans who ruled that part of the world…I might add at twice its value sometimes.

Your argument is moot; I did not claim the land was unoccupied.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

#92668 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/06 at 6:12 pm

Douglas

The strawmen arguments in which you respond are moot to the fact that the Jewish settlers and the Palestinians were living next to each other in relative peace until the State of Israel was established by the U.N. and the surrounding Arab countries put together a coalition that agreed to attack the new country. They then told the Palestinians settlers to leave so they could wipe-out the Jews. They were told it would only be for a couple of weeks and then they could return. But as history reports, when the Arabs lost what they thought would be a sure thing…. that left the Palestinians with no home!

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By Mooser, August 7, 2007 at 8:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How long is inevitable? I have been waiting seven years for the next “inevitable” attack by “Islamic terrorists”. Don’t those people have any sense of sticking to a shedule?
Last time, they managed to knock down two of the tallest buildings with box-cutters. Imagine what would happen if they had a gun? They could probably level New Orleans and collapse a couple of bridges with one shot!
It’s inevitable!

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By jkoch, August 7, 2007 at 8:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hedges writes that “Strikes on Iran would ensure a regional conflict,” because [s]uch an action has the potential of drawing Israel into war.”  But don’t the neocons argue that the US must initiate such attacks because Israel will otherwise be compelled to undertake “pre-emptive” nuclear strikes itself?  Israel lacks the force strength to hit hundreds of potential nuclear sites with thousands of “bunker busters,” whether conventional or tactical nuclear. Meanwhile, an Iranian retaliation to a US strike would likely consist of a few missiles which might wobble off course or destroy maybe only an urban block each.  Israel might hold back retaliation (whether a conventional or nuclear hit on Tehran), so long as the US peppered Iran with sufficient force. 

This worked in 1991, when Israel bore SCUD attacks from Iraq.  However, it was precisely Saddam’s willingness to retaliate by missiles against Israel that made then-assistant DOD secretary Wolfowitz resolve to eliminate Saddam or perfect anti-missile defenses, before Iraq ever acquired nukes.

Perhaps few Israelis want a war on Iran.  But enough of them have been persuaded to believe that Iran wants to nuke them, by way of mis-translation of Ahmadinejad’s call for Israel to cease to exist (the way the USSR ceased to exist), that many will give militarists the benefit of the doubt.

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By ETWolverine, August 7, 2007 at 8:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have been reading this string and I find it very disturbing.  Somehow, we have gone from the article above which never mentions Jews, Zionists or Israel to a discussion of how Jews, Zionists and Israel are the cause of the war in Iraq.  And for some reason we are not supposed to believe that this is the product of anti-Semitism.

The insistence by some that the Jews are trying to solidify control of their land because of the natural resources contained therein is ludicrous.  Israel is probably the most resource poor country in the Middle East.  There is no oil, no mineral wealth, no precious stones, no gold, silver or platinum, no natural resources of any kind.  The land itself is a desert and has to be farmed though hydroponic technology because traditional farming techniques don’t work.  Mark Twain commented on how barren the land was in his writtings.  Israel’s sole “natural resource” is its human resource… the ingenuity, industry and efforts of its people that has made the land lush.

Next is the idea that Israel somehow can controll the USA with regard to the war in Iraq.  Is this the same Israel that George H W Bush forced to stay out of the first Gulf War, even after they were attacked by Iraq with 32 Scud missiles, because it would ruin Bush’s coalition if Israel got involved?  Is this the same Israel that GHW Bush and Bill Clinton forced to the negotiating table for the Oslo and Whye Accords, even though they knew that Arafat wasn’t negotiating in good faith and was breaking the agreements?  Is this the same Israel that Bill Clinton forced to limit its reprisals against Palestinian terrorists in the West Bank?  Is this the same Israel to whom Bill Clinton failed to live up to his promise to release Johnathan Pollard on two sepparate occasions?  Are we supposed to believe that Israel is able to pull the USA’s strings with regard to attacking Iraq, but not on any other issue that is in their interests?  That a piddling little country the size of New Jersey can pull the strings of the most powerful nation in the world?

Or perhaps you believe that it’s the Jews who are pulling the Bush’s strings.  The same Jews who are less than 1% of the US population?  The same ones who are overwhelmingly anti-Bush and anti-War?  The same ones who overwhelmingly vote and donate Democrat?  Are these the ones you believe are pulling Bush’s strings to go to war in Iraq?

The entire idea is rediculous when compared with actual facts.  But it is said with such a straight face that people believe it. 

Please explain to me why I should believe that these ideas, which are patently false, are anything but anti-Semitism couched in intelectualism?

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By nonsequitor, August 7, 2007 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

...as George Bush defended his Iraq policies last month, he reminded us yet again of the menace Iran supposedly poses: it is “threatening to wipe Israel off the map”.

it’s in the process of wiping itself off the map.

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By Charlotte Smith, August 7, 2007 at 8:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By these comments I can say that it is so pleasing to see my fellow Americans awaken from their sleep.  The phony right-wing evangelical false teachings and their manifestations of war, death, destruction, and just plain sin are now being revealed for all to see.  Even the story of the ancient destruction to the scriptures is now being told so that all can see how these “false” speakers have used these falsehoods to create this chaos in the world.  But what are we all going to do about it?  We must move beyond writing but we must continue to be steadfast in peace.  For it is truly the common man who has sickened of this farce enough to keep his faith in God and discard the religious establishment who carries a pure message.  That is a message of real peace, real love and real righteousness.  Not one dictated by some man made organization but each individuals commonly shared vision of peace.

Perhaps a peaceful sit in in D.C. until impeachment happens is all that remains?  But whatever the solution, as the “true” believers, we must show those wicked ones that we can cause great shifts in the world through peace.  We can cause great changes and rid ourselves of this sinful government.  It is our right and our duty as the True Children of God and as American Citizens.

Peace and Love to you all!

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By Al Koppel, August 7, 2007 at 8:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And to think that Bush W’s orders of ‘Terrorist Attacks’ on 9/11/01 was a Declaration of War on Americans in this very United States; that the conflict of terrorist aggression at the Mid East was only to divert attention from the main objective, and that to demolish our American Constitution, our Federal and State governments, to destroy all our American birthrights, our unique great American way of life, to ruin our American economy, to legislate non-laws so as to leave our U.S. citizens defenseless under the rule of thugs, hoodlums and goons before we are finally all given away, our country included, to retards, loafers and subhumans no more productive than the lawless U.S. congressionals, so that these other derelicts of civilized human societies, too, might live well at our loss and cost without the means to earn a good way of life, while the lawless cretin who still inhabit space under the shelter of our American roofs entertain phantasmagorias of living in a Bush W Nazi Fairyland on then non-existent U.S. tax dollars. Idiosy! -Al Koppel.

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By osage, August 7, 2007 at 7:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

26 U.S. TROOPS KILLED IN 1 WEEK IN IRAQ….......The surge is working? For whom? Al Qaeda? Sunni insurgents? American troops? For whom is Bush’s surge working when 26 Americans are killed in one week? This is insanity!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/07/iraq/main3140063.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3140063

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By CorpNewsIsALIE, August 7, 2007 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

I think your solution is an excellent one. I pray to all the aforementioned ” GODS ” that this would come true. I mean that with all my heart and soul. Do you remember shortly after buSh was selected, cheNey held a secret energy summit? To this day, even after several demands from Congress, cheNey refuses to reveal any participants or words from that meeting. There is where you will find the plans to, and how to, conduct the invasion and occupation of Iraq. The oil giants and the Military Complex devised those plans. I think this occupation is going completely as planned. A planned anarchy, if you will. In anarchy there is confusion. In confusion there can be theft and murder and mayhem. The unchecked lawlessness and blood-letting these NeoCons seem to relish. Just like the evil minions and goblins and vampires that vault up from the bowels of Hades. buSh and cheNey and goNzo and that founder of PNAC, bill kryStol, are always smilling or smirking as they talk about the murder and destruction in Iraq. They sicken and disgust me to my very core. I fear, the oil giants and the Military Complex WILL NOT falter or veer from those plans until everything is stolen from that region in the M.E.. Right now they have almost complete control of our Gov in D.C. They look foward to this entire United States being in that same state of decline.
  Why else would Haliburton be building all those stockades inside this country? If not to imprison the last few defenders of this great experiment we call The CONSTITUTION of The UNITED STATES of AMERICA. The documentthat buSh so disgacefully stated ” it’s just a God Damn piece of paper “

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush++”+it’s+just+a+God+Damn+piece+of+paper+”&btnG=Google+Search

Our time grows very short to stop these madmen. Keep calling and writing and emailing congress. I know there are some Dems with no spine. Thats all the more reason, to tell and persuade, all that you know and meet to join this great struggle to save humanity. You must call even the Repuglicans. Join everyone else and buy no gas or essential items on 9/11. Even past 9/11, the more days the better. They will heel to the sound of the silent registers. They will feel the painful void, quaking down to their greedy groins.
  Signed:  A PATRIOT!!

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By Com_n_sense, August 7, 2007 at 7:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Impeach/Out of Iraq GENERAL STRIKE SEPT.11th

Buy nothing - do nothing! Bring this country to a standstill!

Pass it on. Post a sign.

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By Tiger1, August 7, 2007 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

When Bush Jr. sent the military to Iraq, I near jumped out of my sandals. I worked alongside of those people for near 12 years. I am not at all surprised that things are worse. An Arab told me that the Arabs would join together to fight the infidel, but would fight each other.So much for the decisions of lawyers with no knowledge of what that part of the world or any other is like. You have to be around those people for some time, and live in their country to just only get a small idea of what they are like. There is no way you can understand them! Nor can you reason with them.“The radicals”!

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By Ibex, August 7, 2007 at 6:02 am Link to this comment

The ‘Palestinians’ get such a bad name all the time, and of course having fanatics blowing themselves up in desperation has not helped their image at all in the civilized west.  We kill kids too but after all it is ‘collateral damage’ and kids were not ‘targeted’ (though their presence is known).

When you control the message you get to tar and feather your enemy as much as you like.  The name ‘Palestine’ is most likely derived from Philistia, home of the Philistines.  These were neighbors to the ancient Israelites and once kicked their ass and took away their Arc of the Covenant.  Were it not for the Philistines, the nomadic Israelites probably would not have unified into a kingdom for their own defense.  As a result of the ancient emnity between the Isrealites and the Philistines, the Hebrews wrote really bad things about them in their history and blackened their names forever.  But these ancestors of the Palestinians were not a bunch of ‘philistines’ in what has become a disparaging of character.  The Philistines were far more advanced and sophisticated than the Hebrew sheep herders in the hills whose histories of themselves were just a bunch of recycled Sumerian myths combined with their own sense of tribal superiority.  The Hebrews had to go to Philistia just to get their knives sharpened.

Eventually the Hebrews were able to punish the Philistines for their success.  The Palestinians of the 20th century represented some of the most educated and sophisticated Arabs in the Near East, that is, until they were terrorized out of their villages when as a population of proto-Hebrews muscled their way into their midst.  Now, with the camel entirely inside the tent, the Palestinians are like the Philistines of old…weakened and with their names blackened by the printed and spoken word. In the 21st century, these unfortunate peoples are reduced to and seduced by the religious fanaticism that is the mark of the poorly educated.  Philistia is once again, no more.

The entire safety of the world (and the peace of America) is held hostage to the Zionist vision.  But I would guarantee the safety of Israel forever as a monument to Christian religious intolerance, while at the same time holding Jerusalem (and Mecca)hostage to good behavior.  I am happy the Jews have a place they can call home, because after two thousand years of Christian persecution, they deserve it.  But they should be loudly calling for a home for the Kurds, the largest nation without a country, and speaking for others who are discriminated against.  They can be Israel, a shining nation of hope…or just a Judenreich, a militarized land of Jewish crusaders.

Sometimes it seems that the concept of ‘fairness’ is a purely western concept.

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By Skruff, August 7, 2007 at 5:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well this thread has outlived any possible usefullness.  Time to hit the DNR buttons.

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By d.alon, August 7, 2007 at 4:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Skruff,

Thanks for the correction.  I think I’ve become conditioned to skim fluff stories like that one in the assumption that any real news value the story might have is being glossed over for the sake of sensationalism and the tabloid stylings in vogue today.  Anyway, thanks again.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 4:53 am Link to this comment

#92732 by dosa on 8/07 at 2:00 am

All of 10,000 bar a few Arabists in the United States—people who have lived for prolonged periods in the Middle East and speak Arabic would have openly supported the Iraq invasion if they had been asked openly. They are not stupid they know what “the man” wants to hear. Look how well Fuad Ajami is doing, he is no dummy.
======================
Dosa,
The 10,000 Arabists in the US, are the ones who ALL reccommended that this invasion NOT happen, and yes, they have spent prolonged periods of time in the Middle East. Enough to know have PREDICTED, exactly how this would turn out.

And, if the U.S. media hadn’t tuned into wimps 7 years ago or better, you would have known that, even before this began, because hundreds of thousands of people protested this invasion, (here, Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Asia)but none of that was every relayed to the public, via the main-stream media, and none of us ever got to hear the opinions of these professionals at the time.

I’d like to assure you though, that you would NEVER have found 10,000 Arabists in THIS country, who would have agreed that invading Iraq was a good idea. It might have been a good idea to have Saddam legally removed, via the UN system that does these things, but that wasn’t gonna happen, because if that had been the operation, there would have been no need to destroy the entire country along with it, (and all of it’s people)

It also would not have allowed for the U.S. to steal their oil, and set up permanent occupation. So, they didn’t bother with that option, and probably because these same dudes had been supporting Saddams regime for years, when it was in fact beneficial for them to do so.

(I’ll see if I can find the photo of Donald Rumsfeld kissing Saddam’s feet a few decades ago.)

So no. Any person with any knowledge of the Middle East, was overwhelmingly opposed to an invasion of that country.

Does this article help you understand why?

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By the 1Sgt, August 7, 2007 at 4:42 am Link to this comment

Another well written, very informative article. It’s really too bad the MSM will not discuss the same on the eve news and Sunday talk shows, but, oh well…

I knew this Iraq War was bogus the day I saw Colin Powell addressing the UN with his WMD charge based on Iraq’s alleged attempt to gather uranium from Niger. I have been watching this nightmare unfold since then. I used to live in Niger. If you know anything about Niger, you know the Russians and us came there after they declared independence from France in 60-61 because of their large uranium deposits. You would also know the uranium there is not high yield and not worth mining. If Iraq were to have tried extracting Niger uranium, it would have spent MILLIONS trying to extract enough out of the ground. Makes zero sense to get it from Niger when the soviet scientists are selling on the black market.

The USA unfortunately will have to learn the lessons of history like all others have—the hard way. Only this way will we be jealous of our freedoms.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 3:53 am Link to this comment

#92668 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/06 at 6:12 pm

Weird! I thought it was the Jews (oops, excuse me - the Israelis) who had “decimated” the Arabs. Well, the population is down by two thirds who have fled - and the Jews are trying not so much to decimate the rest but to wall them out with concrete and electrified razor wire. Their government contractors can make more money that way…...
++++++++++++++++

And, just in case anyone hasn’t noticed…this is EXACTLY the same thing that the U.S. military, (and it’s equal number of private contractors) are doing in Iraq. Same thing…at least 40% of the population has either fled, been internally displaced, or is now dead. For the rest, the U.S. is building concrete barricades around these neighborhoods, topped with razor wire, and only one way in or out….a US military controlled checkpoint.

And, they had nine of these “gated communities” planned. Do we think these Iraqis haven’t been able to see what’s coming on THAT front? Like they’re just gonna let the occupiers WALL THEM IN? And put foreign military personnel in charge of those checkpoints? I mean, can we see some similarities here yet? Similarities to the miseries inflicted upon the Palestinians for the past 60 years?

Well, I do.

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By dosa, August 7, 2007 at 3:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All of 10,000 bar a few Arabists in the United States—people who have lived for prolonged periods in the Middle East and speak Arabic would have openly supported the Iraq invasion if they had been asked openly. They are not stupid they know what “the man” wants to hear. Look how well Fuad Ajami is doing, he is no dummy.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 2:51 am Link to this comment

#92695 by Robert on 8/06 at 8:02 pm

Helpfully, as George Bush defended his Iraq policies last month, he reminded us yet again of the menace Iran supposedly poses: it is “threatening to wipe Israel off the map”.

This myth has been endlessly recycled since a translating error was made of a speech Ahmadinejad delivered nearly two years ago. Farsi experts have verified that the Iranian president, far from threatening to destroy Israel, was quoting from an earlier speech by the late Ayatollah Khomeini in which he reassured supporters of the Palestinians that “the Zionist regime in Jerusalem” would “vanish from the page of time”.

He was not threatening to exterminate Jews or even Israel. He was comparing Israel’s occupation of the Palestinians with other illegitimate systems of rule whose time had passed, including the Shahs who once ruled Iran, apartheid South Africa and the Soviet empire. Nonetheless, this erroneous translation has survived and prospered because Israel and her supporters have exploited it for their own crude propaganda purposes.
=================================

Robert,
Thanks for posting this. I do remember reading about this translation error, but I didn’t remember where I’d read it. But, I’ve read a bunch of other stuff that Ahmadinejad has said (in his own words) or written, and I’ve read and listened to what the professionals from the IAEA have said about Irans nuclear capabilities as well. And, Iran is not the threat that the U.S. and Israel are trying to make them into.

Of course that isn’t to say that things are politically “peachy” in Iran, but it also isn’t to say that they can’t work out their own issues. Being under constant threat by the bullies of the U.S. however, doesn’t really endear them to us. Accusing them of doing, (or even THINKING) of something they haven’t done, is enough to get them pissed-off though.

So, that’s food for thought. Meantime, as far as I know, there are in fact still a large population of Jews in Iran, and they seem happy enough. It’s their home. I did a paper not long ago on Iran, (in this case, the various women’s movements) and the Jewish Ladies Organization, (or something close) was the very first to set-up (then – early 20th Century) what we would now think of as a non-governmental agency, primarily to provide social services, and to involve more women in the politics of the day. So indeed, they’ve been around for a very long time. So far, they’ve appeared to get along.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 2:31 am Link to this comment

#92724 by Tony Wicher on 8/07 at 12:15 am
•  I thought you know that you know nothing. Guess you don’t know that either.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tony,

This is pretty funny.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2007 at 1:30 am Link to this comment

Empires rise and fall. The U.S. is going the way of the British before them. The question is whether it will end in nuclear war or a return to democracy. I think this issue is going to be decided in the near future, say the next 5-6 years.

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By Tony Wicher, August 7, 2007 at 1:15 am Link to this comment

Re #92659 by I know that I know nothing on 8/06 at 5:54 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Since I already know how some of you will reply, do no bother!”

I thought you know that you know nothing. Guess you don’t know that either.

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By theone123ord, August 6, 2007 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

War is the number one scam in human history.
It always has been.
Religion has been wars number one tool.
Fear and hate follow.

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By cyrena, August 6, 2007 at 10:13 pm Link to this comment

#92701 by Evan W. on 8/06 at 8:42 pm
•  Although the situation in the Middle East is certainly horrible, imagine the wholesale slaughter (5.5 million Jewish people in living in Israel) that would occur if we left them to their own devices.
Evan,

Based on the realities of history that you present in your argument, I can actually go along with most of it. I particularly embrace the reality of the fact that most of the Israeli populace does not support the actions of their government any more than we do here. At least at THIS point in history. I might also add that there is a “larger-than-we-realize” population of American Jews, who don’t approve of it either. I know many. However, those are generally the ones who are “silenced” or otherwise steamrolled in retaliation for speaking up and out.

Meantime, I cannot ascribe to the thinking of your last paragraph, and I believe it’s dangerous for anyone to. I’m tired of hearing that if we aren’t around, (or, “leave them to their own devices”) is going to result in the mass murder of 5.5 million Jews. This is rhetoric and propaganda. It hasn’t an ounce of realism to it at all. It’s just the counterpart rhetoric to Islamic claims of wiping Israel off the map. It’s all rhetoric.

If Israel is at all “threatened” - it’s by her own “devices” seeing as those piddly rockets that the resisters use, are just not gonna destroy a whole population of an entire state.

The only thing Israel has to be afraid of is that she doesn’t accidentally trip on one of their OWN nukes, or be stupid enough to attack another one of its neighbors.

As for leaving the Arabs/Persians/Kurds/Turkmen to their own devices, you might note that none of these people have devices that could harm Israel, and they have so far not been inclined to do, with whatever weapons they DO have.

And, the situation in the Middle East is as horrible as it is right now, BECAUSE the US has meddled, and turned it into a horrific disaster.

When you want to put out a fire, the first thing you do is remove the fuel source. That would be the U.S. Military presence in ANY part of the Middle East.

After that, the people who matter (that would be the indigenous population of the Middle East) can in fact use their own devices to finish putting out the flames, and maybe even eventually rebuild it.

None of that can happen though, until the U.S. has relinquished the ambition of controlling the world by terror and wars of aggression.


M

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By Evan W., August 6, 2007 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

People keep criticizing “zionism,” and as much as I agree that a lot of what Isreal does is bad, and as much as I agree that many of America’s reasons for supporting Isreal are irrational (and based on religious fictions), the fact is that there are a lot of people who live in Israel who don’t have any more to do with their country’s actions as the people here control the actions of our president.

Even though Palestine was conquered land, Isrealies still have a right to live there. Keep in mind, of course, that every single country in the world has a very, very bloody history. You think that peace-loving Swedish people just lived forever in peace in Sweden? Think that the Palestinian people themselves didn’t conquer and kill some other group before them? About 70% of Jewish people in Israel were born there, and it is their home as well.

Although the situation in the Middle East is certainly horrible, imagine the wholesale slaughter (5.5 million Jewish people in living in Israel) that would occur if we left them to their own devices.

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By GodSend, August 6, 2007 at 9:33 pm Link to this comment

Outraged:

I paraphrased Einstein’s comments about how to stop war. Did I claim he believed in God? (No, I didn’t)

PurplePeopleEater:

The Devil has many names. Satan is one of them. Lucifer is another. Mammon is another. Some call him Drago (the Dragon). Some like Beelzebub. The ‘Great Deceiver’ is another. They all refer to the same Being. If you want to call him an ‘Entity’, that’s OK too. So what? Holy Scripture uses several of these names to refer to this nasty creature - including Satan. “They are not Jews but worship in the Synagogue of Satan”.

Studying ‘religion’ and theology will not bring you one baby step closer to knowing God and Christ! You have to learn that knowledge the hard way - through personal experience (that is usually painful and Ego-deflating) wink

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By Robert, August 6, 2007 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment

So Why Hasn’t Iran Started by Wiping Its Own Jews Off the Map?

Israel’s Jewish Problem in Tehran

By JONATHAN COOK

“Iran is the new Nazi Germany and its president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the new Hitler. Or so Israeli officials have been declaring for months as they and their American allies try to persuade the doubters in Washington that an attack on Tehran is essential. And if the latest media reports are to be trusted, it looks like they may again be winning the battle for hearts and minds: Vice-President Dick Cheney is said to be diverting the White House back on track to launch a military strike.

Earlier this year Binyamin Netanyahu, Israel’s opposition leader and the man who appears to be styling himself scaremonger-in-chief, told us: “It’s 1938 and Iran is Germany. And Iran is racing to arm itself with atomic bombs.” Of Ahmadinejad, he said: “He is preparing another Holocaust for the Jewish state.”

A few weeks ago, as Israel’s military intelligence claimed—as it has been doing regularly since the early 1990s—that Iran is only a year or so away from the “point of no return” on developing a nuclear warhead, Netanyahu was at it again. “Iran could be the first undeterrable nuclear power,” he warned, adding: “This is a Jewish problem like Hitler was a Jewish problem … The future of the Jewish people depends on the future of Israel.”
But Netanyahu has been far from alone in making extravagant claims about a looming genocide from Iran. Israel’s new president, Shimon Peres, has compared an Iranian nuclear bomb to a “flying concentration camp.” And the prime minister, Ehud Olmert, told a German newspaper last year: “[Ahmadinejad] speaks as Hitler did in his time of the extermination of the entire Jewish nation.”

There is an interesting problem with selling the “Iran as Nazi Germany” line. If Ahmadinejad really is Hitler, ready to commit genocide against Israel’s Jews as soon as he can get his hands on a nuclear weapon, why are some 25,000 Jews living peacefully in Iran and more than reluctant to leave despite repeated enticements from Israel and American Jews?

What is the basis for Israel’s dire forecasts—the ideological scaffolding being erected, presumably, to justify an attack on Iran? Helpfully, as George Bush defended his Iraq policies last month, he reminded us yet again of the menace Iran supposedly poses: it is “threatening to wipe Israel off the map”.

This myth has been endlessly recycled since a translating error was made of a speech Ahmadinejad delivered nearly two years ago. Farsi experts have verified that the Iranian president, far from threatening to destroy Israel, was quoting from an earlier speech by the late Ayatollah Khomeini in which he reassured supporters of the Palestinians that “the Zionist regime in Jerusalem” would “vanish from the page of time”.

He was not threatening to exterminate Jews or even Israel. He was comparing Israel’s occupation of the Palestinians with other illegitimate systems of rule whose time had passed, including the Shahs who once ruled Iran, apartheid South Africa and the Soviet empire. Nonetheless, this erroneous translation has survived and prospered because Israel and her supporters have exploited it for their own crude propaganda purposes.

In the meantime, the 25,000-strong Iranian Jewish community is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel and traces its roots back 3,000 years. As one of several non-Muslim minorities in Iran, Jews there suffer discrimination, but they are certainly no worse off than the one million Palestinian citizens of Israel—and far better off than Palestinians under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook08032007.html

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By Robert, August 6, 2007 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

Congress mandates Holocaust education in grades K-12; science and math requirements to be dropped. New legislation would also replace arts and crafts in senior citizens’ homes with workshops on Holocaust denial.

Shoah education aim of federal bill

Funding for legislation could provide curriculum guidelines and training for educators

07.27.2007 | The Jewish Advocate
By Kristin Erekson

With more than 62 years having passed since the Shoah, local and state lawmakers are working to give Holocaust education a boost.

Currently being reviewed by committees in the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate, the Simon Wiesenthal Holocaust Education Assistance Act – if passed – would provide select organizations nationwide with competitive grants to be used to develop Holocaust curriculum guides as well as training for teachers.

The act would distribute $10 million – $2 million yearly for five years – in federal funding to establish these programs, according to Newtonville resident Rosian Zerner, a Holocaust survivor from Lithuania who is supporting the bill. The U.S. Secretary of Education determines the recipients of the funds and the amounts of the awards.

“Massachusetts should be at the forefront of this legislation,” said Zerner, who has been fervently sending out letters and meeting with legislators to garner more support for the act. “Holocaust education is important because it not only stands as a symbol of what should not be repeated in history but it is also necessary at a point where there are so many Holocaust deniers.”

Upon receiving a letter from Zerner, Congressman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) decided earlier this month to become a co-sponsor of the bill. Frank said he is “doing this for the world.”

“The more you learn about things, the better it is to make sure you avoid anything like it,” Frank added

U.S. Senator Robert Menendez, who is the author of the bill in the Senate, told the Advocate in an e-mail that the Holocaust Education Assistant Act is needed now more than ever because there are some who still deny “the Holocaust’s very existence.”

Menendez, along with other lawmakers, found it fitting to name the bill after the late Simon Wiesenthal, a survivor of the Nazi death camps who dedicated his life to documenting the crimes of the Holocaust and to hunting down the perpetrators still at large. The act has no connection with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Menendez said.

“I believe this legislation will be an important step to ensuring that students continue to learn about the Holocaust in an accurate and comprehensive manner,” Menendez added.

According to the text of the act, several states, such as California, Florida and Illinois, now mandate Holocaust education in curricula. However, Heidi P. Guarino, spokeswoman for the state Department of Education, said Massachusetts does not exactly “mandate” the teaching of the Shoah.

Instead, Guarino added, the Massachusetts History and Social Science Curriculum Framework dedicates one world history learning standard to the Holocaust, as well as another addressing the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

If the bill is passed, Guarino said that it will “spur a very intense effort on the development of teaching units and other materials on this subject.”

Alan Ronkin, deputy director of the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Boston, told the Advocate that teaching about the Holocaust is “critical to shape the next generation.”

Added Ronkin: “Holocaust education not only teaches about the past, but it also uses the lessons of the past to help shape students’ decisions to become future leaders [who fight] against racism, bigotry and anti-Semitism.”

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=3&ar=97

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By JoJo, August 6, 2007 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What should worry Americans and the Jews in America is the great possibilty that thousands of American soldiers might die and not have a chance to leave. The Jews then stand no chance of saving Israel.
America is heading towards Lenin’s time,over 10 million Christians were slaughter along with the Czar’s family.
Real sad part is Bush is no Lenin but his advisors are the same as Lenin’s.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 6, 2007 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

#92672 by atheo on 8/06 at 6:26 pm: “...OK B.A. .....You suggest that Palestine was available for “settlers of land- farmers for the most part”. On whose land did they settle? Check your myths against reality…...”

Interesting, atheo, if I may interject here, that one postulation was perhaps borrowed from the English as invaders - in Australia! Re your http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story414.html link:-

Quote: “Isn’t it true that Palestine was empty and inhabited by nomadic people? .....From the early stages of Zionism to the present, Zionists have propagated the myth that Palestinians did not settle Palestine until it was later developed by the Israelis. To facilitate such disinformation, the Zionists adopted the following slogan to entice European Jewry to emigrate to Palestine: “A land with no people is for a people with no land”......”

In Australia, the English colonial and military power used the ploy “terra nullius” to describe their despicable assertion that they just arrived and discovered this “empty land”. So, to them it was theirs for the taking - a real estate agents’ dream, that is!!! Thus they began merrily carving it up to suit themselves with their disgusting imprisonment mentality and oppressive legal system of land ownership (the haves and the have-nots). http://www.dreamtime.net.au/indigenous/land.cfm#b

Quote Wiki: “...Modern applications of the term terra nullius stem from 16th and 17th century doctrines describing land that was unclaimed by a sovereign state recognized by European powers….. During the 18th century the doctrine gave legal force to the settlement of lands occupied by “backward” people, where no system of laws or ownership of property was held to exist. The Swiss philosopher and international law theorist Emerich de Vattel, building on the philosophy of John Locke and others, proposed that terra nullius applied to uncultivated land. As the indigenous people were not (in this view) using the land, those who could cultivate the land had a right to claim it….” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius

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By atheo, August 6, 2007 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

OK B.A.

You suggest that Palestine was available for “settlers of land- farmers for the most part”. On whose land did they settle? Check your myths against reality:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story414.html

Palestine photos of the 1930s http://www.snunit.k12.il/vmuseum/pal/map.html

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

http://www.mediamonitors.net/mazin16.html

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 6, 2007 at 7:12 pm Link to this comment

#92627 by Bill Abernathy on 8/06 at 3:37 pm: “...For decades Palestinians have been decimated by Arabs, and the tool they used was betrayal, the most vicious of crimes. The undemocratic Arabs are terrified of the political dynamic that would be unleashed in the region if a popularly backed independent democratic Palestine actually emerged….”

Weird! I thought it was the Jews (oops, excuse me - the Israelis) who had “decimated” the Arabs. Well, the population is down by two thirds who have fled - and the Jews are trying not so much to decimate the rest but to wall them out with concrete and electrified razor wire. Their government contractors can make more money that way…...

But those millions of “undemocratic Arabs” are quite able to make up their own minds as to what kind of countries they want to live in. If they choose the illusion of a theocratic Islam, how is that any worse than the illusion of the American dream? Your view of the M.East (W.Asia) has become small by focusssing on the tiny but loud state of Israel.

Palestine is NOT the “West bank” or the “Gaza strip”. These are only the small territories remaining for Arabs after the majority of Palestine has been overrun by Jews with their “ITS US OR THEM” approach to life in the region. That is intrinsically opposite the much-touted Christian (and Eastern religions’) “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

What a false concept, then, that American Christians (and European Christians) have about the fantasy of a state of Israel or a “holy land”. It is anything but holy and Israel is anything but “God’s chosen people”. That should be obvious but nonone seems to want to listen except to the rhetoric and litany of lies of the Zionists and the outdated delusions of their ‘old testament’ priests. If the USA can’t peacefully solve this issue once and for all, then eventually the Russians or someone else will - by bombing Israel back to the stone age!

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By I know that I know nothing, August 6, 2007 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Einstein believed in God the way Richard Dawkins does.

I know that I nothing but some of these comments here make me feel smart like an encyclopedia.

I do not necessarily disagree with Mr. Hedges analysis, but it would be a lot more convincing if he sometimes bothered to back up his polemics.

Call me a brainwashed Zionist, but I am not exactly sure how the de-stabilization and and militarization of the population in neighboring Muslim countries will benefit Israel.  Does it expect that the fighting Muslims will wake up some morning and think: Oh my Allah, I should be friends with Israel since the enemy of my enemy is my friend?  Is it not more likely that they would wake up one morning and think: Oh my Allah, why are we killing each other when we should be killing the Jews and other infedels?  Since I already know how some of you will reply, do no bother!

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By purplewolf, August 6, 2007 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

#92603 Godsend
The “satan” you mention was orginally referred to as Lucifer, the fallen one from heaven cast of by God. Or so the story goes. The word satan is a yiddish word describing an evil imp or entity. Actual fact. Funny how it has been twisted all these years into another “spiritual being” altogether. Student of many of the worlds religions, myth, fact and otherwise, as well as theology in college.

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By Goffredo, August 6, 2007 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Check it out:

http://thefederalistpapers2007.blogspot.com/

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By Bill Abernathy, August 6, 2007 at 4:37 pm Link to this comment

#92621 by atheo on 8/06 at 3:06 pm

You say “Myth”, but what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence…and I will.


For decades Palestinians have been decimated by Arabs, and the tool they used was betrayal, the most vicious of crimes. The undemocratic Arabs are terrified of the political dynamic that would be unleashed in the region if a popularly backed independent democratic Palestine actually emerged.

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By atheo, August 6, 2007 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment

B.A.,

Your myths are sweet but myths nonetheless.

The Brittish brought more than religious hatred to their colonies. They brought colonists!

This is no longer an acceptable practice B.A.
Unlike the Native Americans, the Palestinians haven’t been decimated by smallpox. Are you proposing a new genocide or will you admit that the zionist project is wrong?

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By Peter RV, August 6, 2007 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is not so bad that we’ll be running like rabbits from Baghdad, it is what will be happening next.
Our failed offensive against the Muslim World will be inevitably followed by their counter-offensive against us. We are witnessing the awakening a sleepy giant who will give us a historical lesson in- revenge.
We, fools, are counting on our war gadgets to save us from a blazing fanaticism of millions of those who wont mind dying for their Allah. Do we really believe we can win?
We may soon be running for cover, begging for pity, led by our masters- the Jews.

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By Outraged, August 6, 2007 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

In response to your implication about Albert Einstein being a Jew: #92534 by GodSend on 8/06

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

—Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

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By Skruff, August 6, 2007 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

92544 by d.alon on 8/06 at 9:33 am

“In an article about the French President yelling at some US AP photographers, it said towards the end that he was being gaurded by the US Secret Service (in France mind you).”

Nope, He’s here in Maine on vacation, in Vacationland.  AND don’t try to drive up to see him as the traffic is at a standstill!

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By Bill Abernathy, August 6, 2007 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

The Hebrews, as a British colony, won their independence just as Americans won theirs; no one gave either a snow balls chance in hell- they each threw the British out against all odds.

In both cases they came as settlers of land- farmers for the most part. Jews and the inhabitants of Palestine lived as neighbors for 5 thousand years; religious hatred came with the British, just as it did in Ireland.

The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s Final Solution. After the war, the British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine.

On June 6, 1946, President Truman urged the British government to relieve the suffering of the Jews confined to displaced persons camps in Europe by immediately accepting 100,000 Jewish immigrants. Britain’s Foreign Minister, Ernest Bevin, replied sarcastically that the United States wanted displaced Jews to immigrate to Palestine “because they did not want too many of them in New York.”10

Some Jews were able to reach Palestine, many by way of dilapidated ships that members of the Jewish resistance organizations smuggled in. Between August 1945 and the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, 65 “illegal ” immigrant ships, carrying 69,878 people, arrived from European shores. In August 1946, however, the British began to intern those they caught in camps in Cyprus. Approximately 50,000 people were detained in the camps, 28,000 of whom were still imprisoned when Israel declared independence.11


10) George Lenczowski, American Presidents and the Middle East, (NC: Duke University Press, 1990), p. 23.

11) Aharon Cohen, Israel and the Arab World, (NY: Funk and Wagnalls, 1970), p. 174.

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By GodSend, August 6, 2007 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment

BA:

Do you SEE! that photo of the bloody hand at the top of this post? Now imagine the entire bodies of all of Israel’s leaders looking just like that. They are all covered with the blood of dead or maimed Palestinians and Lebanese civilans, including children and babies (and the occasional peace protester) who were/are unceremoniously and cruelly ‘ethnically cleansed’ from the land they live(d) on before/while Israel occupied/occupies it.

You are a Zionist shill.

The facts (readily available on the Web) scream for themselves and the accusing, bloody fingers of the thousands of victims point clearly at Israel’s leaders. Only one god I know of condones and encourages such atrocities - Satan!

“They are not Jews but worship in the Synagogue of Satan” (spoken by Jesus the Christ). New generations of Israeli Zionist worshipers, rebelling against Yahweh - same god! (Satan).

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By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

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By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

Report this

By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

Report this

By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

Report this

By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

Report this

By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

Report this

By desertdude, August 6, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

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By Bill Abernathy, August 6, 2007 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

If I based my beliefs on the, entrails of pigs and the ashes of logs, I would make that known; however, I don’t. I try to base them on facts.

Now that I know you base your beliefs on Ideals, and not logic, I will be better able to make sense out of your conclusions.

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By GodSend, August 6, 2007 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

BA:

The existence of God is not something I care to argue about - it is self-evident, in my opinion.

It’s sufficient to debate and criticize the actions of our government on the basis of the Constitution, our laws, truth ( derived from evidence or overwhelming ‘circumstantial evidence’ ) and the underlying principles on which America was founded.

BUT, you will NEVER comprehend The Puzzle (of Human Existence) unless you take spirituality (God) into consideration. Spirituality is part of Man’s identity - it sets us apart from the animal kingdom. That’s a personal matter, however, and only a valid topic for discussion by mutual consent! Engagement implies consent.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 6, 2007 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

Godsend
The premise for this conclusion can only be based on an Ideal, because if it were based on fact- it would have to contradict most of history.

‘The behavior of Israel’s leaders just prior, during and after the creation of Israel defies all standards of human decency and humanitarian standards.’

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By Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, August 6, 2007 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

ocjim, #92496 is it not a redeeming quality that Bush takes the time out of his busy day working hard (soneone’s gotta do it) in the oval office to run (for photos) in shorts with those American troops with prosthetic legs?

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By Bill Abernathy, August 6, 2007 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment

godsend

Is school prayer back? Is abortion outlawed? Do people work on Sunday? Are the 10 commandments again allowed in public buildings?


While I would agree to the proposition that- fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States; it doesn’t follow logically that they are concentrating on, or, wringing their hands in way or another in anticipation of Armageddon.

They above all, like most Zionist, are focused on maintaining their respective country.

Roughly 87% of the populations who claim to never doubt the existence of God only a small percent, the fundamentalist, attempt a biblical argument to justify their religious beliefs for the existence of God, while the others (“religious moderation”) make no attempt at rational justification, they believe in God because this belief “gives their lives meaning.”

My view is based on the results published by the Pew Research center. Following is the URL if you care.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=757

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By GodSend, August 6, 2007 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

“You will be sorrowful but your sorrow will be turned into joy”.

It helps to look beyond the tragic state of affairs in the ME and all the human suffering which occurs there daily and which is threatening to expand dramatically. The Palestinians have borne the brunt for many years, but many innocent people have suffered terribly and are still suffering - including many Israelis. Before the idea of a Jewish State came into existence, people lived there in (relative) peaceful coexistence.

The behavior of Israel’s leaders just prior, during and after the creation of Israel defies all standards of human decency and humanitarian standards. The list of violations is too long to even start. Who were/are those people and what right can they possibly claim to justify their actions?

There is Crime (against humanity and God) - and there is Punishment. There always has been and there will be again! Repentance is the only way of escape from the wrath of God. God is full of Grace and Mercy - but repentance and return to Him is the necessary 1st step. There are many people on all sides who must take that 1st step. Let’s suspend debate about God’s Name for now - whether it’s Allah or Yahweh or Jesus Christ. Who wants to hold their dead or maimed child in their arms for ANY reason? Who wants to see ANY child dead or maimed for ANY reason? Only a heartless and evil enemy of humanity!

“God is Love”.

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By sophrosyne, August 6, 2007 at 11:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bush is presiding over the radical and rapid decline of the USA. 

And what is with the fatuous Guiliani and the pygmies running for the Presidency?  Why won’t interviewers challenge their simplistic understanding of strength?  Have not they learned the radical limits on military power to end the stalemate that is undermining our country’s strength?  The Sunday Republican debates were a sad joke.

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