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Beyond Disaster

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Posted on Aug 6, 2007
Bloody hand
AP Photo / Hameed Rasheed

By Chris Hedges

The war in Iraq is about to get worse—much worse.  The Democrats’ decision to let the war run its course, while they frantically wash their hands of responsibility, means that it will sputter and stagger forward until the mission collapses.  This will be sudden.  The security of the Green Zone, our imperial city, will be increasingly breached.  Command and control will disintegrate.  And we will back out of Iraq humiliated and defeated.  But this will not be the end of the conflict.  It will, in fact, signal a phase of the war far deadlier and more dangerous to American interests. 

Iraq no longer exists as a unified country.  The experiment that was Iraq, the cobbling together of disparate and antagonistic patches of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious powers in the wake of World War I, belongs to the history books.  It will never come back.  The Kurds have set up a de facto state in the north, the Shiites control most of the south and the center of the country is a battleground.  There are 2 million Iraqis who have fled their homes and are internally displaced. Another 2 million have left the country, most to Syria and Jordan, which now has the largest number of refugees per capita of any country on Earth. An Oxfam report estimates that one in three Iraqis are in need of emergency aid, but the chaos and violence is so widespread that assistance is impossible.  Iraq is in a state of anarchy.  The American occupation forces are one more source of terror tossed into the caldron of suicide bombings, mercenary armies, militias, massive explosions, ambushes, kidnappings and mass executions.  But wait until we leave.

It was not supposed to turn out like this.  Remember all those visions of a democratic Iraq, visions peddled by the White House and fatuous pundits like Thomas Friedman and the gravel-voiced morons who pollute our airwaves on CNN and Fox News?  They assured us that the war would be a cakewalk.  We would be greeted as liberators.  Democracy would seep out over the borders of Iraq to usher in a new Middle East.  Now, struggling to salvage their own credibility, they blame the debacle on poor planning and mismanagement.

There are probably about 10,000 Arabists in the United States—people who have lived for prolonged periods in the Middle East and speak Arabic.  At the inception of the war you could not have rounded up more than about a dozen who thought this was a good idea.  And I include all the Arabists in the State Department, the Pentagon and the intelligence community.  Anyone who had spent significant time in Iraq knew this would not work.  The war was not doomed because Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz did not do sufficient planning for the occupation.  The war was doomed, period.  It never had a chance.  And even a cursory knowledge of Iraqi history and politics made this apparent.

This is not to deny the stupidity of the occupation.  The disbanding of the Iraqi army; the ham-fisted attempt to install the crook and, it now turns out, Iranian spy Ahmed Chalabi in power; the firing of all Baathist public officials, including university professors, primary school teachers, nurses and doctors; the failure to secure Baghdad and the vast weapons depots from looters; allowing heavily armed American units to blast their way through densely populated neighborhoods, giving the insurgency its most potent recruiting tool—all ensured a swift descent into chaos.  But Iraq would not have held together even if we had been spared the gross incompetence of the Bush administration.  Saddam Hussein, like the more benign dictator Josip Broz Tito in the former Yugoslavia, understood that the glue that held the country together was the secret police.     

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Iraq, however, is different from Yugoslavia.  Iraq has oil—lots of it.  It also has water in a part of the world that is running out of water.  And the dismemberment of Iraq will unleash a mad scramble for dwindling resources that will include the involvement of neighboring states.  The Kurds, like the Shiites and the Sunnis, know that if they do not get their hands on water resources and oil they cannot survive.  But Turkey, Syria and Iran have no intention of allowing the Kurds to create a viable enclave.  A functioning Kurdistan in northern Iraq means rebellion by the repressed Kurdish minorities in these countries. The Kurds, orphans of the 20th century who have been repeatedly sold out by every ally they ever had, including the United States, will be crushed.  The possibility that Iraq will become a Shiite state, run by clerics allied with Iran, terrifies the Arab world.  Turkey, as well as Saudi Arabia, the United States and Israel, would most likely keep the conflict going by arming Sunni militias.  This anarchy could end with foreign forces, including Iran and Turkey, carving up the battered carcass of Iraq.  No matter what happens, many, many Iraqis are going to die.  And it is our fault. 

The neoconservatives—and the liberal interventionists, who still serve as the neocons’ useful idiots when it comes to Iran—have learned nothing.  They talk about hitting Iran and maybe even Pakistan with airstrikes.  Strikes on Iran would ensure a regional conflict.  Such an action has the potential of drawing Israel into war—especially if Iran retaliates for any airstrikes by hitting Israel, as I would expect Tehran to do.  There are still many in the U.S. who cling to the doctrine of pre-emptive war, a doctrine that the post-World War II Nuremberg laws define as a criminal “war of aggression.”
 
The occupation of Iraq, along with the Afghanistan occupation, has only furthered the spread of failed states and increased authoritarianism, savage violence, instability and anarchy.  It has swelled the ranks of our real enemies—the Islamic terrorists—and opened up voids of lawlessness where they can operate and plot against us.  It has scuttled the art of diplomacy.  It has left us an outlaw state intent on creating more outlaw states.  It has empowered Iran, as well as Russia and China, which sit on the sidelines gleefully watching our self-immolation.  This is what George W. Bush and all those “reluctant hawks” who supported him have bequeathed us. 

What is terrifying is not that the architects and numerous apologists of the Iraq war have learned nothing, but that they may not yet be finished.
 
Chris Hedges, the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times, spent seven years in the Middle East.  He was part of the paper’s team of reporters who won the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of global terrorism.  He is the author of “War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.”  His latest book is “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America.” 


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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

atheo:

It’s really not surprising. When your very life is at stake, you’ll cling to anything - even a straw! They will stonewall the issue (the MSM) while it is right in front of their noses! Think of ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’. Admitting guilt will be death for all of them - and a lot more! Like I said before, all hell will break loose - it’s inevitable.

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By atheo, August 10, 2007 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment

Godsend,

It is indeed fascinating that people can cling to the “Arabs did it” thesis, which contains nothing but empty accusations and falsified evidence, while at the same time dismissing all the hard evidence of Israeli complicity.

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

atheo:

Be prepared for the defenders of Zionism, with regard to their 9/11 dastardly deed, to basically claim the equivalent of “Black is White”.

People like cyrena are either witting or unwitting Zionist shills because they just can’t stand the idea of admitting that Israel and Zionists are criminals. Maybe they have too many Jewish friends and don’t want to lose them.

It is self-evident by now (as well as obvious) that the ‘Official’ 9/11 explanation is a huge and deliberate LIE that defies the laws of physics and a whole bunch of other laws.

The ‘Zionists DID IT’ explanation is not only logical, it also has the advantage of a compelling motive. All the pieces fit together beautifully and all that is required for incontrovertible proof is for a few people to be given a lie detector test. People like Guiliani, Bush, Zakheim, etc. would be sufficient. Maybe we should ‘extraordinarily rendition’ them to Russia?!

The bottom line is that MANY people know that the Zionists ‘DID IT’. Before the 2008 ‘Election’, most of the voters will know that the Zionists ‘DID IT’. Look for the guilty to scramble for 1-way tickets on El Al to Tel Aviv or change their religion. Who knows, some of them may decide to climb into the Israel (Trojan) Horse, located within Christianity! wink Problem is, there are already 50-odd million ‘Christians’ packed into that Horse!

Pretty soon, anyone who still doubts that the Zionists ‘DID IT’ will feel like ‘Flat Earthers’ in the 20th century! wink They will be considered insane or morons (or both).

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By atheo, August 10, 2007 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Howard,

Are you a dolt? Evidence is required for guilt not innocence.

Godsend,

I’m frankly floored by the position taken by Cyrena that, yes 9/11 was obviously an inside job, and at the same time it was those damn Saudi’s that did it.
This seems to be a new (to me) fall back position.

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By Howard, August 10, 2007 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

Wow, I’m so glad to hear on this page from some commentators that 9/11 was not caused by the those Saudi citizens Whew, and they’ll be happy in that country too.
But where is the proof for who YOU said did it ? Myself, I think you should now look into Elvis…. er, I mean Kilroy being the ones who hijacked the planes.

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

cyrena - I suggest plain or raisin bagels and no pretzels. Easy on the cream cheese and lox if you have high BP. In fact, it may be a good idea to avoid Blogs about 9/11 altogether! Don’t they have Blogs for ‘Jewish’ mothers and grandmothers? - where you can blog about your grandchildren?

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

#93696 by GodSend on 8/10 at 8:24 am

Now, that would REALLY make the day. The salt would be a problem though. Gotta watch my blood pressure.

I’ll suggest it to the others though. smile

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

PS to cyrena:

Don’t forget to put down your pretzels or bagels before you and your friends start rolling on the floor in utter hilarity! wink And remember, you don’t have to be Jewish to be a ‘Jewish mother’ - or grandmother, in your case. smile

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

cyrena, it will escape no one that you completely ignored the ISSUE. The ISSUE is Zionist Deception and concealment of 9/11 truths in a vain attempt to save their sorry asses. Even the intervention of ‘Jewish’ mothers and grandmothers will not save their sorry asses! wink Try another strategy because this one is dead as a doornail. smile

The real perpetrators of the 9/11 attack on America will be identified, caught, tried, convicted and punished. They are Israeli and American Zionists. What we must try to do is avoid ‘collateral damage’ during the process of ‘smoking them out’ wink

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

#93667 by GodSend on 8/10 at 6:44 am
•  cyrena is one of those subtle Zionist shills who sounds ‘reasonable’ (even motherly - like a ‘Jewish’ mother) on the surface but not far below that surface lies Deception and an effort to discredit ANYONE who is a threat to the Zionist agenda. She is an extension of the MSM into cyberspace.
Godsend,
This is absolutely priceless!!! It’s rare that I can start my morning with such excellent comedy. Matter of fact, this was so good, that I shared it with everyone who actually KNOWS me. I can’t wait to hear the responses from the natural-born comedians among them. No doubt it will make their days as well.

Thanks again.

Respectfully,
Your Neighborhood Jewish Grandmother Zionist Shill (MSM certified)

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 10, 2007 at 7:44 am Link to this comment

atheo et al:

Do not let cyrena’s spaghetti logic about 9/11 undermine the self-evident TRUTH that the ‘Official’ explanation for 9/11 is a DELIBERATE LIE.

cyrena is one of those subtle Zionist shills who sounds ‘reasonable’ (even motherly - like a ‘Jewish’ mother) on the surface but not far below that surface lies Deception and an effort to discredit ANYONE who is a threat to the Zionist agenda. She is an extension of the MSM into cyberspace.

It is now a CERTAINTY that the events of 9/11 were not perpetrated by a bunch of crazed Arabs (some of whom are still alive) but by a far more sinister cabal of Zionists (supporters of the Rogue State of Israel) who want to ‘Balkanize’ the ME for the benefit of Israel ( ‘Greater Israel’ ).

These Zionists are going to continue to call Black, White, in the Orwellian ‘Big Brother’ manner, because to acknowledge the truth (about 9/11 and all those other ‘false-flag’ operations) will open Pandora’s Box and unleash a backlash against the Zionist intrigue that will make the holocaust seem like a dress rehearsal!

Talk about ‘Beyond Disaster’! wink

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By Skruff, August 10, 2007 at 7:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

93620 by GodSend on 8/09 at 10:24 pm

The one redeeming feature of religion, is after a sermon, one usually gets free eats…. Your sermons don’t even provide that.

Where are you located anyway, somewhere near Hayden Lake Idaho?

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By cyrena, August 10, 2007 at 12:29 am Link to this comment

#93133 by atheo on 8/08 at 9:09 am

Cyrena
•  I find it curious that you would accept the myth that conspiracies are impossible to keep hidden.

Atheo, I never said that conspiracies are IMPOSSIBLE to keep hidden. So, sounds like you’re just nitpicking here, and there are all sorts of explanations for why one might indulge in that kind of harassment. The shrinks would label it as “passive aggressive” behavior, but I just see it as a neurosis. It’s not that you don’t seem to do a lot of thinking about these things, and it’s certainly not that you don’t make good points, or that you don’t connect a few of the concepts.

But, here again, your arguments are basically petty. Neurotic sorts of things that focus very narrowly on whatever you can pick up to use as a jab of sorts. And, it’s actually a sign of weakness in an argument of any substance.

The events of 9-11 are a conspiracy within a conspiracy and there’s no doubt in my mind that SOME folks know exactly what happened. There are even people who know things they don’t even REALIZE they know. And for many who DO, they have already been intimidated into silence.

So, nobody ever said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to maintain any and all conspiracies. That was a broad statement that you attempt to use with a narrow purpose, and I didn’t even say it. It was included in another documentand that was one statement, (a broad one) about “conspiracies” in general. And, most of the time, it IS impossible to keep them under wraps.

The perpetrators of such conspiracies CAN keep everyone confused though, and prevent them from “comparing notes” on what they DO know. And, the masses can in fact be “diverted” by all of the faux facts, mixed in with the truth. That’s what seems to have happened with you. You became aware of a few of the “trappings” of the 9-11 conspiracy, and so now you’ve dismissed ALL other information from these same sources. So, you’re basically throwing the baby out with the bath water. You say….don’t believe ANY of it, despite what your eyes are telling you. That leaves you with…NOTHING. You’re left with continuing to point to the same things that are obvious lies and deceptions, but you never come up with a plausible alternative other than, The CIA did it, or the Zionists did it, or whomever else. Just so nobody accuses a group of mostly Arabs, who have long ago made their grievances over “U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East”, very well known. They have never wanted the US military presence in their region. And, this particular group has made no secret of that. Ergo, multiple “terrorist attacks” on US interests in that region. 9-11 was their second strike on US soil, over the period of a decade. So, this wasn’t new, and should have been expected. I think it WAS expected.

But, instead of actually thinking through that, you’d rather pick on something that is a generality, and you wind up looking foolish, or at best very petty.

Here’s a link to a fantasy speech that encompasses and supports some of your better work on these posts. I think you’ll enjoy it.

The New Vision: The Speech I Want the Democratic Nominee to Give

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080807E.shtml

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 9, 2007 at 11:24 pm Link to this comment

What Senator Fulbright and others discerned and what Benjamin Freedman unveiled (in speeches made in 1961 and 1974) is an outcome consistent with instructions to Jews contained in the ‘Protocols’. When Herzl and others emboldened the Zionist movement to pursue a homeland for Jews at any price in goyim blood, it represented open rebellion against Yahweh (according to Neturei Karta rabbis and other rabbis since Zionism first appeared). The pride, arrogance, evil and deception of Zionism knows no bounds because Satan is the power behind Zionism and Zionists. Satan is ‘the god of this world’ and Zionism contains within it all of his attributes. Does Satan want to enslave and destroy humanity (bodies and souls)?

Are Satan and his worshipers enemies of Yahweh and Jesus the Christ? What does that make Israel, home of Zionism? What occult symbolism is built into the Supreme Court buildings in Jerusalem? Whose idea was that and who funded that project?

What do the actions of Israel’s leaders tell the world about their values, morals and integrity? ‘Deception’ is the Mossad motto. Satan has been identified as the “Great Deceiver” in Holy Scripture. Are 50 million CUI ‘Christians’ among ‘even the elect’ who will be deceived during the End Times? Who is deceiving them and are they ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’? Do true followers of Christ and worshipers of Satan make strange bedfellows?

What, in the world, is happening? - and what WILL happen? Can you put the pieces of The Puzzle together and SEE! what’s coming? What is coming is Beyond Disaster! For one thing, the Grand Depression is coming - engineered by those Zionist Depression ‘experts’, Greenspan & Bernanke (the Sorcerer and his Apprentice). Is Armageddon coming? What will happen to America and who will occupy all those gulags being built by Halliburton and others? Whose idea is that?

Will Bush become the Dictator-in-Chief after 9/11-II by invoking a law (Signing Statement) he recently signed? Is Bush listening to God or to the Devil? Can we tell by the results of his decisions? (suffering of millions and rivers of blood and tears). “You will know them by their fruits” (not their words). What do the fruits of Bush’s actions tell us? Is he insane? Is he a tyrant? Is he both? Can he possibly be a ‘born again’ follower of Christ or is he another kind of ‘Christian’ altogether - say, like a TV millionaire ‘Christian’? Can they really serve 2 masters? - Christ AND Mammon?

“You will be sorrowful but your sorrow will be turned into joy”? From out of the Darkness will come the Light and there will be joy! smile Will you be among the joyful?

Beyond Disaster lies Hope! Who is humanity’s ONLY Hope? (No, it’s not Obe One Kenobe!)

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By June, August 9, 2007 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

In addition to the disaster we have perpetrated in Iraq, according to today’s paper where I live another one looms large on the horizon: the imminent failure of a dam on the Tigris there, predicted to wreak unspeakable destruction with even Bagdad being affected.  Imagine a post-Katrina flood scenario superimposed on the situation already existing in that poor god-forsaken place. I guess if those Iraqis who haven’t already fled the country or been killed by our airstrikes drown, then Dubya can waltz in without any resistance whatsoever and lay claim to all the oil.  It seems to me that what’s holding up “progress” by the Iraqi government (by our standards) is the vast majority of Iraqis who are against privatization of their oil.  I wonder why no one in our Administration foresaw that!  Duh!

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, August 9, 2007 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

#92813 by I know that I know nothing on 8/07 at 8:30 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Tony Wicher:

“Of course I know that some responses will amount to nothing but the same old bs.  One can have a bs meter without claiming to have any knowledge of substance.  Indeed it is the very possession of a bs meter that makes one realize how little one knows.  Alas, that is probably too much for all you dogmatists out there.”

IKTIKN:

Are sure your BS meter is accurate? Does it detect BS even when you yourself are uttering it?

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By atheo, August 9, 2007 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Malcom Lagauche:

The current list of U.S. presidential candidates who call themselves “anti-war” is laughable. They vary in their amount of opposition to the war in Iraq and criticize each other for their ideas.

Edwards signed the authorization for war in 2002, yet he derides Clinton because she voted for it. Obama proudly states that he opposed the invasion and he calls for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. Then, he says they should be sent to Afghanistan. Next, he has threatened Pakistan with an invasion. All candidates call for a planned withdrawal, not an immediate exit.

In all the talk about Iraq coming from politicians, there are various matters that are left untouched. Only when they are addressed can the issue be properly approached and lead to a future in which the U.S. does not randomly destroy countries for no reason other than the same one why a dog licks its balls: because it can.

Who will be the first U.S. politician to admit that Iraq was better off under Saddam Hussein? During arguments about Iraq, all the supporters have to say is, “Well, at least Saddam is gone,” and the “peace” people close their mouths. It is precisely because Saddam is gone that Iraq is in it miserable state.

Who will be the first U.S. politician to admit that the invasion was based on lies, not intelligence flaws? Democrats and Republicans alike lied to the public.

Who will be the first U.S. politician to publicly criticize Colin Powell for his duplicity in building a case for war? Everybody seems to think Powell was a cut above the rest in the administration in terms of honesty. He was as much a scumbag as anyone because he realized he had a false image of being a person of integrity and he used this vision to lie to the world.

Who will be the first U.S. politician to speak to the American people about the history of Iraq? When will the U.S. public be told that Iraq had a fine education system? When will the U.S. public be told that Iraq’s healthcare system was the finest in the Middle East? When will the U.S. public be told that Iraq went from a country of 35% literacy to a country designated “free of illiteracy” in shortly over a decade?

Who will be the first U.S. politician to challenge the myths of mass graves in Iraq? In November 2003, U.S. politicians reveled in Tony Blair’s statement to the world that 400,000 mass graves had been found in the south of Iraq. But, when Blair announced to his own people on July 18, 2004 that the number was about 5,000, not one of his U.S. supporters mentioned the re-assessment. And, not one has spoken of the forensics that showed most of these bodies were of Iraqi soldiers killed in the bombing of Desert Storm.

Who will be the first U.S. politician to apologize to the Iraqi people?

Who will be the first U.S. politician to call for reparations to the Iraqi people for all the damage the country suffered at the hands of U.S. militarism?

Who will be the first U.S. politician to absolutely state that many of the U.S. military personnel in Iraq became murderers and psychopaths? Instead, we hear about a few “bad apples” and that our military would never act in such barbaric manners. A visit to YouTube will dispel many statements about the honor of the military. No wonder the Pentagon recently stopped soldiers from posting their videos on YouTube and other similar websites.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 9, 2007 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

Comment #93504 by Aretologist on 8/9

Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war

Following its invasion of Lebanon this summer, Israel was said to have largely lost the PR battle to Hizbullah, but armed with a major web offensive, it’s fighting back

11.20.2006 | The Guardian
by Stewart Purvis

“Amir Gissin runs what he calls ‘“Israel’s Explanation Department”. Which is why it is surprising to hear him admit that many Israelis think “the whole problem is that we don’t explain ourselves correctly”.

“During the war we had the opportunity to do some very nice things with the megaphone community,” he revealed at the conference. Among them, he claimed, was a role in getting an admission from Reuters that a photograph of damage to Beirut had been doctored by a Lebanese photographer to increase the amount of smoke in the picture. This was first spotted by American blogger Charles Johnson, who has won an award for “promoting Israel and Zionism”.

To check out the power of the megaphone, I logged onto a website called GIYUS (Give Israel Your United Support) last Wednesday afternoon. More than 25,000 registered users of http://www.giyus.org have downloaded the megaphone software, which enables them to receive alerts asking them to get active online.

It did not take long for an alertto come through. A Foreign Office minister, Kim Howells, had issued a press statement condemning that day’s Palestinian rocket attack which killed an elderly Israeli and wounded other civilians. GIYUS wanted site users to “show your appreciation of the UK’s response”.

One click took me to a pre-prepared email addressed to Dr Howells, and a slot for me to personalise my comment. A test confirmed that the email would arrive at his office, as if I had spotted his comments on a news website, in this case Yahoo, and sent it to him with a supporting message. In the emails, there would be no indication of the involvement of GIYUS, although Howells may have been suspicious that so many people around the world had read the same Yahoo story about him and decided to email him. The Foreign Office confirms that emails were received last Wednesday but will not go into any more detail.

The most popular target of the online activists is the foreign media, especially the BBC, the news organisation which they love to hate. Earlier this year I was a member of the independent panel set up by the BBC governors to review the BBC’s coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We reported on the high number of emails we had received from abroad, mostly from North America, and the evidence of pressure group involvement. A majority of email correspondents thought that the BBC was anti-Israel, however if the emails that could be identified as coming from abroad were excluded, the opposite was true - more people thought the BBC anti-Palestinian or pro-Israel.

The BBC has already had one encounter with GIYUS - an attempt to influence the outcome of an online poll. BBC History magazine noticed an upsurge in voting on whether holocaust denial should be a criminal offence in Britain. But the closing date had already passed and the result had already been published, so the votes were invalid anyway. GIYUS supporters claim success elsewhere in “balancing” an opinion poll on an Arabic website by turning a vote condemning Israel’s attack in the Lebanon into an endorsement.

For some of Israel’s supporters, a primary aim of their war on the web is an attempt to discredit what they see as hostile foreign media reports, especially those containing iconic visual images.”
———————————————————————-
Click on the link for the rest of the article & WATCH OUT for ISRAEL & AIPAC’S—“GIYUS”, the “Internet Mega-Phone”.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=695

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By tuantu, August 9, 2007 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

“Increased awareness is the first step to freedom.”

The following is from “They Dared to Speak Out” -

In 1973, Senator William Fulbright declared that the United States Senate was ‘subservient’ to Israeli policies which were inimical to American interests. He said the US bears ‘a very great share of the responsibility’ for the continuation of Middle East violence. ‘It’s quite obvious that without the all-out support by the United States in money and weapons and so on, the Israelis couldn’t do what they’ve been doing.’

‘The great majority of the Senate of the United States - somewhere around 80% ( 100% today) - are completely in support of Israel, anything Israel wants.’ The Senator claimed that “Israel controls the Senate’.

In a speech Fulbright warned: ‘Endlessly pressing the United States for money and arms - invariably getting all and more than she asks for - Israel makes bad use of a good friend.’ (a good‘friend’ has become a good‘wife’)

He warned sombrely that “Israel’s supporters in the United States…are encouraging a course which must lead toward her destruction - and just possibly ours as well.’

Pondering the future (in 1973) Fulbright sees little hope that Capital Hill will effectively challenge the Israeli lobby: ‘It’s suicide for politicians to oppose them (AIPAC).’

‘AIPAC demands 100%. If a fine Senator like Fulbright fails to cooperate just once, he must be ready to trade in his career.’

Another staff member of a Senate committee declared: ‘To please AIPAC, you have to be more pure
(more Jewish) than Ivory soap - 99.44% purity is not good enough.’  Lacking the purity AIPAC demanded,
Hathaway, Fulbright, Percy, Findley were defeated in the next elections.

Another Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Charles Percy also spoke out about America’s subservience to Israel and he too was defeated in next election and he left politics for good.  In confirming that AIPAC was responsible for Fulbright’s and Percy’s defeat at the polls, a former head of AIPAC boasted: “The Jews in America gathered to oust Senator Charles Percy and the (other) America politicians got the message.”

The French mathematician Condorcet in 1790 postulated that because of the gullibility and stupidity of the majority of the uneducated French public, a cunning highly organized educated dedicated and rich minority, all of them working together, could gain enough power in the country to indoctrinate the French people and create an elite powerful oligarchy behind a “democratic smoke screen.”  Has his theory turned into actuality-reality?

The most dangerous delusion? That there is just one reality for everyone, that everyone is and thinks the same and that everyone wants the same out of life and sees the world in the same way.

The second most dangerous delusion? That the mass media is objective neutral, favors nobody and tells the truth, the whole truth and nothing more.  People are gullible, naive and trusting. They accept the facts which come to them through the mass media. They have neither the time nor the inclination to search for the real facts that are not effortlessly available to them.

Every nation, every people must be very careful who they let own their mass media. People can be inculcated and controlled by the careful management and manipulation of the information they receive. Those who own or manage the mass media may not see the world the same way you do, they may not think the same way you do and they may not want the same the same things from life that you do.

Is there a rich, highly organized highly educated, cunning and dedicated minority - all of them working together with one similar goal in mind - that has inculcated the American people and gained control of their government?  Or does it just seem that way to me and to some other people?

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By Aretologist, August 9, 2007 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

I don’t want to discourage anyone from speaking out and leaving comments here at Truthdig. However, I do not believe that any of you know that the Jewish overseeing committee that controls the U.S. Congress - AIPAC operates a covert section within its “research” department that monitors what it calls “anti-Israel (anti-Jewish) activity.

According to Ex- Congressman Paul Findley in his book “Deliberate Deceptions: Facing the Facts about the U.S.-Israeli Relationship” -  AIPAC joined with the American Jewish Committee and other Jewish groups in 1974 to form a “truth squad.” to counter anti-Israeli information.

“According to investigative reporter Robert Friedman, the truth squad turned into a kind of Jewish thought police. AIPAC’s investigators - sometimes over-zealous Jewish college students (monitoring Internet sites such as Truthdig?), sometimes sources with access to U.S. intelligence agencies - were used to ferret out critics of Israel.”

Findley: “According to Gregory Slabodkin, a young Jewish scholar who was once an AIPAC researcher: ‘To date, revelations about AIPAC’s….smear tactics have barely scratched the surface of AIPAC’s secret activities…AIPAC operates a covert section within its research department that monitors and keeps files on politicians, journalists, academics, Arab-Americans, Jewish liberals and others that it labels ‘anti-Jewish.’

AIPAC selects information from these files and secretly circulates lists of the ‘guilty,’ together with their alleged political misdeeds, buttressed by their statements (made here at Truthdig), often (taken) totally out of content.”
Slabodkin revealed that the head of AIPAC’s stealth section keeps locked up in his office ‘literally thousands of files on people and organizations that AIPAC deems ‘anti-Israel.’ Such as Jimmy Carter, Robert Dole, George McGovern, John Conyers, John Dingell, Mervyn Dymally, Caspar Weinberger and John Sununu.”

Has AIPAC’s “research” section grown since 1974? How many Jewish people are there out there monitoring
the American people?  And how many AIPAC “researchers” might there be right here at Truthdig?

Can an organization such as AIPAC legally do what Findley claims they are doing? Is there anybody sane left in America’s government to put a stop to it?  Or has AIPAC and the American Jewish Congress booted all the clearheaded politicians out of Congress?

If that is the case then exactly what kind of politicians has AIPAC left us with?

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By omop, August 9, 2007 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment

There is one UNALTERABLE RATIONAL.

NEITHER PRO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

Enforcing UN Resolutions of 1948 that created the State of Israel and the Palestenian State,

NO ANDS IFS OR BUTS.

Thats the least DECENT AND RIGHT THING TO DO.

CAUSE IF IT WERE A BIZARRO WORLD

And it was the Palestenians doing it to the Israelis as the Israelis are doing it to the Palestenians then it would STILL BE

  Enforce UN Resolutions of 1948 that created a Palestenian and the State of Israel.

  Any other ANDS IFS OR BUTS would be tantamount to stating that the distinction between human beings and wild animals is not as great as humans tend to imagine.

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GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, August 9, 2007 at 10:42 am Link to this comment

Fanatical Zionists have no shame, no conscience, no morals, no heart, no soul, no decency, no integrity, no compassion - AND no place to hide when Yahweh gathers them in His furnace to MELT them! (Ezekiel)

You DON’T want to walk even 1 step in their moccasins!

That’s what you get when you follow the ‘Protocols’, rebel against Yahweh and worship Satan!

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By atheo, August 9, 2007 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

It amazes that these fanatical zionists on this board repeatedly post outrageous racist lies and genocidal myths only to exlode in indignation when a few words of reference to the protocals of zion are mentioned. Have they no shame?

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 9, 2007 at 7:03 am Link to this comment

#93358 by Howard on 8/09 at 3:55 am: “...Some of the commentators might not be aware of the confusion related to the myth of “occupation” as expounded here or the uses of phrases like “ land-grab” by Israel. .......In other words, the myth of “occupation” being the cause of conflict….When the Egyptians were in possession of Gaza for almost twenty years nobody accused them of being occupiers. The Jordanians, who were in possession of Judea/Samaria (the “West Bank”) and much of Jerusalem for the same length of time, were not considered occupiers by the nations of the world and by the inhabitants of the area…...... “

This is NOT a topic about Israel, Howard, and all of the relevant issues with Israel have already been well canvassed and discussed. You are more than a little behind - even irrelevant. What is more, your assertion that “Israel, in contrast, has never evicted a single Arab from these territories….” has been refuted conclusively before if not in other topics as well as an absolute lie.

Apart from that, the current issues in Israel are not as the result of an occupation so much as an invasion and usurpation. Most of those Jews were still in Europe a few years before. Any Jordanian or Egyptian incursions were viewed as being entirely different in nature. What is more, the history of the entire region is a patchwork of endless invasions and military conflicts. They did not involve the current kind of ethnic cleansing, though.

By the way, what were you congratulating Harry Truman about re dropping the A-bomb? Is that your view of Japanese? Then why stick up for Jews if you don’t also hate or despise Arabs? You crawl around this blog like a chameleon deceptively changing color wherever you turn up, duh - (#93264 by Howard on 8/08 at 8:04 pm) http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070807_robert_scheer_august_8_a_bomb/

Now, wouldn’t it be nice for us all to actually get around to discussing the various issues of Iraq like the stateless Kurds and their future relationship with Iran and the next prime minister of Pakistan being related to both, the Turks as neighbors and a regional military power, etc etc….....

Quote from above story link: “...The Ottoman state began as one of many small Turkish states that emerged in Asia Minor during the breakdown of the empire of the Seljuk Turks. The Ottoman Turks began to absorb the other states, and during the reign (1451–81) of Muhammad II they ended all other local Turkish dynasties. The early phase of Ottoman expansion took place under Osman I, Orkhan, Murad I, and Beyazid I at the expense of the Byzantine Empire, Bulgaria, and Serbia. Bursa fell in 1326 and Adrianople (the modern Edirne) in 1361; each in turn became the capital of the empire. The great Ottoman victories of Kosovo (1389) and Nikopol (1396) placed large parts of the Balkan Peninsula under Ottoman rule and awakened Europe to the Ottoman danger. The Ottoman siege of Constantinople was lifted at the appearance of Timur, who defeated and captured Beyazid in 1402. The Ottomans, however, soon rallied….”

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By Howard, August 9, 2007 at 4:55 am Link to this comment

Some of the commentators might not be aware of the confusion related to the myth of “occupation” as expounded here or the uses of phrases like ” land-grab” by Israel.

In other words, the myth of “occupation” being the cause of conflict. The very concept of “occupation,” as applied to Gaza and Judea/Samaria (the “West Bank”), is a myth. When the Egyptians were in possession of Gaza for almost twenty years nobody accused them of being occupiers. The Jordanians, who were in possession of Judea/Samaria (the “West Bank”) and much of Jerusalem for the same length of time, were not considered occupiers by the nations of the world and by the inhabitants of the area. The Israelis were considered “occupiers” when, after a war of extermination against them, they prevailed and came into possession of these territories. The oldest rule of warfare is that to the victor belong the spoils. Do people expect France to return Alsace-Lorraine to Germany? Do they expect the Czech Republic or Poland to return the German territories awarded to them after Germany’s defeat in World War II? Of course not! Those countries evicted most of the original inhabitants or caused them to flee. Israel, in contrast, has never evicted a single Arab from these territories. On the contrary, lured by the prosperity the Israelis have created, tens of thousands of Arabs from adjacent Syria and Jordan have come to live there.

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By Inherit The Wind, August 9, 2007 at 4:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yeah, DC, Cyrena:
I knew it. I KNEW you two pseudo-scholars would accept that “The Prototcols of The Elders of Zion” was some sort of valid work rather than the crude forgery.

Neither of you even HINTED that you agreed it was a forgery and garbage.  You both have crossed the line.

So you’ve staked your position, you’ve taken your stand.  You might as well be saying it’s OK for a White to call a Black the N-word.

Wound me up? You two nazi-assholes are doing no more than trying to find your way to a justification for a second holocaust. 

You better be practicing your goose stepping and shouting “Seig Heil!” while you give the world over to a new, greater Taliban. Better still, practice saying “Allah u Akbar!” because you’re gonna be FORCED to say it by your “friends” supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.  They understand freedom—you have the freedom to become a Sharia Muslim as THEY define it—or die.

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By the 1Sgt, August 9, 2007 at 2:46 am Link to this comment

Thanks Cyrena. If people would just look beneath the surface they would see the truth.

Jeff, in case you come back, look for yourself:

Top Democrat: Our policy on Iraq won’t imperil Israel, leave chaos
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/891358.html

Now, after you read this short article, ask yourself WHY is it needed that 40 US elected representatives need to make the annual pilgrimage?

Also, why is it needed to consider Israel’s security in our pullout from Iraq?

WHY?

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By cyrena, August 9, 2007 at 2:38 am Link to this comment

#93328 by the 1Sgt on 8/09 at 12:49 am


•  I’m not sure that’s a practicable solution in all cases Jeff.
But, maybe in the case of Palestine, where the dispossessed have for almost 60 years complained about the land grab vehemently (locally and in the international court), taken up arms, used various forms of warfare to combat what they perceive as illegal occupation and survived outright brutal human rights violations…..
————————————————

The original question here, (from Jeff) was a facetious one at best, because of course it wouldn’t be a practical solution in all cases. Besides, I mean, should all of US give the Native Americans back their land? I wouldn’t mind, but it’s highly unlikely that the rest of you would go for it. Meantime, these 300 years later, the indigenous here have been mostly wiped out, so they aren’t trying to get anything back. (well, that’s not exactly true, but they aren’t attacking us as a result of their losses and our hubris).

Which is exactly why 1st Sgt is right on the mark here:
•  9/11 happened because of our foreign policy. A foreign policy we not only continue, but have even expanded further and are even considering more radical moves.

This certainly speaks for itself, and I would only repeat that we ALL need to start paying attention.

•  Jeff, when you read about this some more you will see it is all connected.

This is true Jeff, though in all fairness, there really IS a lot to wade though. So, it’s sort of an “advanced” level of a connect-the-dots exercise. But, it must be done.

Otherwise, as Verne would say…we’re cooked.

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By the 1Sgt, August 9, 2007 at 1:49 am Link to this comment

#93293 by Jeff on 8/08 at 9:40 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

the 1SGT said, “Please, stop making excuses for what is happening to some 5+ million people, dispossessed of the land they once owned.”
———————————————————————-
So, 1SGT, should all land worldwide be returned to the original owner?
==================================================
==================================================
I’m not sure that’s a practicable solution in all cases Jeff.

But, maybe in the case of Palestine, where the dispossessed have for almost 60 years complained about the land grab vehemently (locally and in the international court), taken up arms, used various forms of warfare to combat what they perceive as illegal occupation and survived outright brutal human rights violations…..

And recently, whereas the same people and their cause are used as the casus beli for attacks on the United States, well….MAYBE it’s time we Americans start paying attention to why all this is happening.

9/11 happened because of our foreign policy. A foreign policy we not only continue, but have even expanded further and are even considering more radical moves.

Jeff, when you read about this some more you will see it is all connected.

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By cyrena, August 9, 2007 at 1:16 am Link to this comment

#93308 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/08 at 10:44 pm

Oh, groan, its YOU again - having your monthly “YOU ARE A NAZI. PERIOD!” I don’t know why Truthdig allows this Aryan Brotherhood/KKK horseshit to be posted…....

******************************
Doug,

It’s free speech. We don’t know how much longer we’re gonna have it, so this is probably a small price to pay.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 11:44 pm Link to this comment

#93281 by Inherit The Wind on 8/08 at 8:38 pm: “...I knew it. I called it.  I said it. Sooner or later one of you hate-filled ignorant nazi shitheads would cite that crude forgery “The Protocols of The Elders of Zion.” Anyone who quotes that evil hunk of muck is a nazi.  Period. End of story…...If you cite “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”...... DogCrap, you can now join DogShit at the bottom of the heap. ......I don’t know why Truthdig allows this Aryan Brotherhood/KKK horseshit to be posted…”

Oh, groan, its YOU again - having your monthly “YOU ARE A NAZI. PERIOD!” I don’t know why Truthdig allows this Aryan Brotherhood/KKK horseshit to be posted…....

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

#93281 by I#93281 by Inherit The Wind on 8/08 at 8:38 pm

•  If you cite “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” as an authority YOU ARE A NAZI, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, AND AN INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL![/B] That putrid piece of vomit was a principle justification for MILLIONS of hate crimes, thousands of times more than Palestinians could even PRETEND to have suffered.
____________________________________

Ok Doug,
You see what you started, right? You got him (ITW) all flipping wound up. (again) He reads like a clip from The Exorcist.

Jeeze…

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By Jeff, August 8, 2007 at 10:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the 1SGT said, “Please, stop making excuses for what is happening to some 5+ million people, dispossessed of the land they once owned.”
———————————————————————-
So, 1SGT, should all land worldwide be returned to the original owner?

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment

#93237 by the 1Sgt on 8/08 at 6:34 pm

1st Sgt, you are quite the scholar, and I appreciate that historical timeline that you’ve provided. I wonder if other folks appreciate the value of this information as well? I would like to think that people would take advantage of this sort of thing, if only because the cost of an advanced education in this country has become so prohibitive, that so many cannot afford it. But, with just a minimal amount internet savvy, so much of what we need to know is actually available right here. When somebody else does the work, and presents it on a board such as this, it’s that much better. Bingo…at our fingertips. A free researcher. Thanks for your contributions.

#93266 by Enemy of State on 8/08 at 8:12 pm
•  Of course when I use legalisms to claim all the cookies for myself (but I might give you a few crumbs if you clean up after me), I should not be surprised that you fight me for your share. It is not evidence that you are an evil-lawbreaker, just that you percieve the unfairness of such arbitrary rules invented, and imposed by the haves.

Enemy of the State,

Thanks for putting this so concisely. I never can.

Meantime, the “legalisms” aren’t working for the imperialists this time. Those Iraqis STILL will not sign the Hydrocarbon Law, no matter how many times cheney’s lawyers change the order of the paragraphs. They just aren’t as stupid as cheney thought they should be.

So, now that they Iraqi Parliament has gone on recess without passing that law…cheney’s all consuming obsession, the rest of us are catching even more hell. Matter of fact, I’m wondering if that’s why he threatened the U.S. Congress to keep them in “after hours detention” until they signed over those powers for him to spy on everybody in the world, but most specifically all of us.

And, now that I think about it, (since that threat apparently worked) does anybody know if george actually has the “power” to detain all of the Congress personnel in session, and physically prevent them from leaving until they sign a law?
I’m just curious, because I just don’t know how that would work. I see no reason why Congress couldn’t have simply refused to address the FISA loophole at all. Like…we’ll just “table” this until we get back.

So, could the Shrub have REALLY forced them to stay there until they did?

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By Inherit The Wind, August 8, 2007 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I knew it. I called it.  I said it.

Sooner or later one of you hate-filled ignorant nazi shitheads would cite that crude forgery “The Protocols of The Elders of Zion.”  Anyone who quotes that evil hunk of muck is a nazi.  Period. End of story.

If you cite “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” as an authority YOU ARE A NAZI, A TRAITOR TO AMERICA, AND AN INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL![/B]  That putrid piece of vomit was a principle justification for MILLIONS of hate crimes, thousands of times more than Palestinians could even PRETEND to have suffered.

Douglas Chalmers on 8/08 at 8:03 pm
(516 comments total)

#93153 by 1drees on 8/08 at 11:14 am: “...The Americans do ( silently) pride themselves as the great Warrior Nation, I mean look at the last 40 years & you will see 10 nations or people attacked. it is a Warrior Agenda of the Zionist Jews that you “goyims” are under, see “Protocols of ZION”. Maybe you Goyims should start doing what the jews do to get things done in USA….”

This started back in the 1950’s with new color movies and cinema was exploited by those who wanted to promote Zionism under the cloak of “Christian” old testament religious stories mixed thinly with a little more genuine descriptions of Jesus. One of the ‘great warriors’ was Charlton Heston, a Jew.

DogCrap, you can now join DogShit at the bottom of the heap. 

I don’t know why Truthdig allows this Aryan Brotherhood/KKK horseshit to be posted,  The people who run this site DAMN WELL KNOW “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is a gross, crude forgery created by the Russian Tsarist secret police in the late 1800’s.

IF YOU DEFEND ITS VALIDITY, YOU ARE A NAZI. PERIOD!

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By Enemy of State, August 8, 2007 at 9:12 pm Link to this comment

Sam, there are a lot of different man-made laws regarding who “owns” a resource. You like the European Colonial one, I was the first (civilized) person to see it, and planted my flag, therefore it is mine! Of course most of the world doesn’t think this is anything near fair, and will push back mightily. But we in the west are so hungup on our narrow legalistic rights, that we can only see these foriegners are enemies. Since 9-11 all enemies of the imperialist agenda are “terrorists”.

  Of course when I use legalisms to claim all the cookies for myself (but I might give you a few crumbs if you clean up after me), I should not be surprised that you fight me for your share. It is not evidence that you are an evil-lawbreaker, just that you percieve the unfairness of such arbitrary rules invented, and imposed by the haves.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

#93153 by 1drees on 8/08 at 11:14 am: “...The Americans do ( silently) pride themselves as the great Warrior Nation, I mean look at the last 40 years & you will see 10 nations or people attacked. it is a Warrior Agenda of the Zionist Jews that you “goyims” are under, see “Protocols of ZION”. Maybe you Goyims should start doing what the jews do to get things done in USA….”

This started back in the 1950’s with new color movies and cinema was exploited by those who wanted to promote Zionism under the cloak of “Christian” old testament religious stories mixed thinly with a little more genuine descriptions of Jesus. One of the ‘great warriors’ was Charlton Heston, a Jew.

He is now more well-known for promoting the Riflemens’ association - quote: “The only way they’ll ever take this gun from me is from my cold dead hand!” That is the kind of false myth people have been deluded into admiring and following.

*************************************************


#93147 by Yahudit on 8/08 at 10:26 am: “...Few have spoken truer words about this incredible piece of stupidity that we will have to live with for the next several generations.  I wish there sufficient adjectives to describe the crimes committed by this administration in our name….... There is no way the oil and water can be worth the price that is being paid….....

I remember the day Colin Powell was making the administration’s case for the illegal pre-emptive strike against Iraq at the UN and I am screaming at the TV screen, “You are selling lies and no one there is buying it. This is so wrong!” If a grandmother in Tenino, WA could see it how is it that so many so called “smart folks” in all the high places could not see it?  Doesn’t anyone read history anymore - did they ever?  Is that why we keep making the same mistakes over and over again…?”

Oh, yes, the leaders knew….... and they knew how easy it was to “sell” their lies, too. People are so easily manipulated through their fears and anxieties. You see only one side of the story - the side they tell you. They know both sides (or four sides, actually) and can play you back and forth to suit their whims.

Suckers, every one of us - until we learn to see TRUTH! They won’t teach it to you - they call lies truth - and you all still lap it up. That then must be what you all really want because, in seeking Truth, one must encounter ALL Truth - even the unpalatable truths about oneself. They have to be dealt with first if you really want FREEDOM!

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By B Mackinlay, August 8, 2007 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges: OK.  It was a huge mistake, at this point most of us realize it.  If we agree that it was doomed from the outset and that it’s going to get worse; the key question is, given what you know about the Middle East, what should we do now?  Is it as simple as pulling out as fast as possible, or continuing to try to suppress the violence that you way is inevitable.  If the goal is to try to minimize the disaster, what steps should we take, now?

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

#93174 by Skruff on 8/08 at 1:22 pm: “...Actually Cyrena, Kindergarten is ALL ABOUT LAW.  Any human who has passed the stage of “potty-training” is ready for LAW. ........I believe what you meant was a young child, still in the phase of concrete operational thought is not ready to parse nuances of adult law. .......This parcing is what adults do when the law doesn’t work for them, and they want a different interpretation tuned more to their self interest….....

When a 5-year-old hears the rule “Don’t touch the telephone” this means ever!  Mommy falls down the stairs, can’t move, can’t talk, so the child sits.  When rescuers arrive “Bobby why didn’t you call 911?” the answer is “I’m not allowed to touch the phone.” .......Somewhere between little Bobby and GWB has to exist a better system…!”

Especially in the USA, I don’t believe people have really started to think about where this drivel called “law” actually came from or what its use really is. The Chinese tried this system about 2,000 years ago (the ‘legalists’) and went on to better things.

There is supposedly a doctrine of the separation of the functions of state governance. The administration is split into the congress and senate, the military and the police and the judiciary. These are all said to work autonomously for the good of the nation. These days, it should be obvious that nothing is further from the truth!

Still, though, people cling to the naive fantasy that having their day in court will be redress for all that they have been wronged by. Given what is happening now, you would have to spend the rest of your life in court to get adequate redress or restitution. It is not possible. Only a fairer system which is based on caring and sharing instead of self-interest and self-serving greed can do that for everybody.

You are all still asleep in the Liberal dream, if I can put it that way. Your rights are being whittled away by these legalists in one way or another and by the fact that both the courts and the legislature are effectively run by lawyers. Most of them even come from the same schools as well as having the same useless learning. They know nothing yet they rule you in totality from behind a screen of false partitions for the benefit of their own masters.

As you say, Skruff, even a child would know the difference between “law” and the delusions we now struggle under. Why then is it that we adults have failed so miserably to see and to confront the obvious? Too clever, aren’t we? So grown up that we are destroying our futures! In reality, it is a form of madness…....

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By the 1Sgt, August 8, 2007 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment

#93194 by omop on 8/08 at 3:05 pm
(15 comments total)

And the rest of the worlds population is free to judge and react accordingly.
====================================================

That Americans are not very bright. Unfortunately.

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment

Note who calls the shots:

Israel requests changes to US military aid


US to boost aid from $24 to $30 billion over next 10 years. Washington now considering request to add regular annual sum instead of current additional 4%

Zvi Lavi Published:  08.08.07 Israel News

 


The United States is considering Israel’s request to redistribute the increased military aid agreed on between Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and US President George W Bush.

US Under Secretary for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns who was scheduled to arrive in Israel to sign off on the new deal has postponed his visit until after Washington officials have reviewed the Israeli proposal.



According to the agreement between Olmert and Bush US military aid would grow annually by four percent – over a period of 10 years, bringing the total sum to $30 billion from the current $24 billion.

However due to changes in security needs Israel has requested an unchanging yearly addition to the budget over that same time period (so that instead of a $105 million addition the first year, it would already be the fixed $600 million).

Washington asked for time to review the new math and sources within Olmert’s office stressed that the only issue on the line was the requested deviation from the original agreement and not a complete withdrawal from it.

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By the 1Sgt, August 8, 2007 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment

#93108 by Bill Abernathy on 8/08 at 7:18 am
(38 comments total)

You make the point that it was the Arabs who betrayed the Palestinians- just as history clearly shows.

Then you ask “Why could Palestine not have benefited from “independence” like the rest of the colonized lands held by England? Or France, or Belgium, or the Netherlands?”…..I’ll tell you why…there never existed a State of Palestine…………. nor is there now…thanks to the Arabs who robbed the people of that land the opportunity for a social Democracy, wanting to hold them hostage to the Imams.

You really ought to be reading a little history and not people like the author of this article…If truthdig editors really wanted truth they would balance their stories.

====================================================

I think you need to use some common sense and actually read up on the history yourself.

Palestine was not a state huh? You know this statement is the very same thing the zionists say about this. You know, there was NOTHING there before, so, what does it matter if I take it…is that how you think?

In any case, ask yourself this…land occupied by a superior force, specifically a 1st world power, with respect of the relationships between 1)Spain, 2) Turkey, 3) Britain, 4) France, 5) Belgium, 6) the Netherlands, and now the United States….do you think THEY colonized territory that was once viable states, with elected representatives (as we recognize them)?

All of them colonized the third world, with the intent to outdo the other in a mad grab for resources.

As to Palestine, the land described with the word, it has for thousands of years been colonized, as it is, EVEN TODAY:

Hebrew Bible period
Persian rule (538 BCE)
Hellenistic rule (333 BCE)
Roman rule (63 BCE)
Byzantine (Eastern Roman Empire) rule (330-640 CE)
Arab Caliphate rule (638 - 1099 CE)
Umayyad rule (661 - 750 CE)
Abbasid rule (750 - 969 CE)
Fatimid rule (969 - 1099 CE)
Crusader rule (1099 - 1187 CE)
Mamluk rule (1270 - 1516 CE)
Ottoman rule (1516 - 1917 CE)
British Mandate (1920–1948)
Israel Rule (1948-Present)

Please, stop making excuses for what is happening to some 5+ million people, dispossessed of the land they once owned.

As to the article…it’s right on the money. What is troubling people like you is America is awakening to what has been going on since 1948.

There are many consequences to 9/11.

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

#93174 by Skruff on 8/08 at 1:22 pm

You’re absolutely on the LAW mark Skruff, so thanks for setting me straight. (since I suppose I knew that, and was simply trying to explain my own use of the phrase “possession is nine-tenths of the law.” So, I certainly won’t use THAT term anymore.

But, you’re right about kindergarten being all about the law. I was actually expelled from my own “first” kindergaarten,(for cussing)and so I spent the next 12 years at institution of parochial learning.

But, I still cuss. What can I say?

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

#93210 by atheo on 8/08 at 4:10 pm

Loan guarantees for investment in housing and commercial projects is not giving…it is call Capitalism an accumulation of capital.  New Imperialism has been around for a long time…I’m surprised you haven’t heard about.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

#93197 by atheo on 8/08 at 3:22 pm


“THE BUSH administration is threatening to withhold billions of dollars in loan guarantees from Israel if the government of Ariel Sharon continues to build its “security fence” in the West Bank.
Up to $9bn (pounds 5.6bn) could be withheld from loan guarantees intended for housing and commercial projects. The funds were approved earlier this year by Congress but are awaiting presidential approval.
In what would be the first open confrontation between the US administration and Mr Sharon, the National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is poised to tell Israel that the money will be suspended.”

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20030806/ai_n12706755

That dosen’t sound like America is paying tribute…well unless you happen to be an infofascist

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

BA states “if Amarica is paying Israel”.

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By Richard, August 8, 2007 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The word ‘anarchy’ in this excellent article might well be replaced with ‘chaos.’  It is not the case that there is no one ruling a place like Bagdad; the chaos there is the result of having many parties all imposing totalitarian rule at the same time.  The Americans, the Iraqi government, Sunni fighters, and Shia fighters all are very much ruling (or attempting to) in Bagdad.  Anarchy is not the same as chaos.

Thank you.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment

#93197 by atheo on 8/08 at 3:22 pm


If America is paying to Israel, why do you suppose they are, can’t they just stop?

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

OMOP,

It would seem to be tribute. Can anyone come up with a more appropriate description?

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By omop, August 8, 2007 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

Even if one were to remove names [Israel; jews; palestenians, arabs etc] how would a fairly educated and rational person describe or define a :

  relationship where a population of 5/6 million is able to acquire or receive a sum of $130 odd billion dollars for a period of fifty years from a nation of 300 million 6/8000 miles away from their shores and a yearly stipend of several billion dollars a year or triple what the entire continent of Africa receives from that same nation.

  Either the 300 million know what they are doing or are told what to do. In either case the winners are the 5/6 million living 6/8000 miles away from the 300 million.

  And the rest of the worlds population is free to judge and react accordingly.

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

Wise words, tuantu. I think the Bush regime is getting commands before it does tricks though:


2003

“Israel to U.S.: Now deal with Syria and Iran,” Ha’aretz’s Aluf Benn, wrote:

Two of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s senior aides will go to Washington for separate talks this week and suggest that the United States also take care of Iran and Syria…

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By tuantu, August 8, 2007 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment

Chris Hedges - another enlightening report.
Truthdig - please keep them coming and keep up the good work.
I believes that one of the reasons America is in the mess it finds itself today is that maybe the American people have sung the “Star Spangled Banner” so many times that “the land of the free and the home of the brave” has become imprinted in their minds and conditioned them to really believe that they are really living in “the home of the brave and the land of the free” -  when actually, as I see reality, they are living in “the land of the slaves and the home of the cowards.” (I am referring of course, to all of America’s elected politicians.)
After American’s emancipate and free themselves then maybe they can genuinely and honestly go around and liberate all the other enslaved peoples in the world.
A French mathematician-philosopher by the name of Condorcet postulated (in 1790) that because of the gullibility and stupidity of the majority of the uneducated French public, a cunning highly organized educated dedicated and rich minority, all of them working together, could gain enough power in the country to indoctrinate the French people and create an elite powerful oligarchy behind a “democratic smoke screen.”
In 1972, Senator William Fulbright (then head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee) foolishly declared hat “the Israelis control politics in Congress and in the Senate.”  Senator Fulbright added that the United States was “subservient to Israel.” For “Daring to Speak Out” (read EX-Congressman Paul Findley’s book) and having the insolence to tell the truth to the America people (and saying things publicly that were “not good for Israel”), AIPAC organized against him and Fulbright’s political career and his service to his country came to a sad, immoral end.  Another head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Charles Percy also spoke out about America’s subservience to Israel and he too was defeated in next election and he left politics for good.  In confirming that AIPAC was responsible for Fulbright’s and Percy’s defeat at the polls, a former head of AIPAC boasted: “The Jews in America gathered to oust Senator Charles Perce and the (other) America politicians got the message.”
Sokrates’s definition of a slave was “Someone who can’t speak the truth.” If no politician can speak out about the American Congress’s subservience to AIPAC and to Israel then American’s cannot possibly live in a “land of the free and the home of the brave.”
Since 1972 Israel’s control of politics in America and America’s ensuing subservience to Israel has escalated - to the point where instead of speaking out against America’s servility, America’s leaders and her politician’s take the initiative and act in Israel’s behalf before getting direct orders!  I guess an analogy of this would be the family dog bringing the newspaper from the front lawn to his master even before the dog’s master commands him and says: “fetch the paper.”  Is that what Bush did in Iraq? And is this why America is in a mess today?

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By Skruff, August 8, 2007 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

93119 by cyrena on 8/08 at 8:20 am

“The term is NOT a “kindergarten” term, since that average kindergartener isn’t really ready for the concept of ‘law’.”

Actually Cyrena, Kindergarten is ALL ABOUT LAW.  Any human who has passed the stage of “potty-training” is ready for LAW.

I believe what you meant was a young child, still in the phase of concrete operational thought is not ready to parse nuances of adult law.

This parcing is what adults do when the law doesn’t work for them, and they want a different interpretation tuned more to their self interest.

When a 5-year-old hears the rule “Don’t touch the telephone” this means ever!  Mommy falls down the stairs, can’t move, can’t talk, so the child sits.  When rescuers arrive “Bobby why didn’t you call 911?” the answer is “I’m not allowed to touch the phone.”

Somewhere between little Bobby and GWB has to exist a better system!

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 8, 2007 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

August 8, 2007

IDF Soldiers Never Go to Jail for Killing Palestinians. Never.

The Murder of Abir Aramin, Nine Years Old

By NURIT PELED-ELHANAN

“How sad it is to come to the realization that the number of those who evade service in the army of occupation is so low that there is virtually no effect on the motivation of Israel’s children to put on the uniform of brutality.

Professor Stewart Cohen of Bar Ilan University consoles us by declaring that the “blame” lies in the increase in the number of Haredis who do not serve and he informs us that the army of the United States would have been happy with such a low percentage of evaders during the Vietnam war. Maybe we would do well to learn something from the Americans of the 1960s, or even from the Haredi Jews who fear for the safety of their children.

When the extent of evasion became known, I was invited onto the program of Oded Shahar, “Politika”, as a mother who will not permit her son (now 15 years old) to join the army. Apart from me, I was informed over the course of a protracted campaign of persuasion, only men were invited, most of them warmongering generals like Effie Eitam and Yossi Peled.

After I was convinced that my participation in the program would be important, I agreed. The researcher asked me why I would not allow my son to enlist. I explained to her that an army that has been involved for forty years now in systematic and growing abuse of a civilian population, (abuse that even a courageous journalist like Gideon Levy calls by the gentle name of “policing”), an army that teaches its soldiers that killing Palestinian children and those who protect them, like Rachel Corrie and James Miller, is not a crime, an army whose commanders are immune to punishment though they commit daily crimes against humanity, is not a suitable place for my son, who was brought up to love people, who has Palestinian friends, whose brothers and parents have Palestinian friends who are subjected to that same reign of terror and daily torment. After half an hour I was told that despite my contribution there were not enough seats on the stage.

A few days later we were told in an isolated solitary news broadcast that the file on the murder of Abir Aramin, the daughter of Salwa and Bassam Aramin, has been closed. Bassam is one of the founders of the Palestinian-Israeli movement Combatants for Peace, where my sons Elik and Guy are members. Bassam Aramin spent 9 years in an Israeli jail for being a member of the Fatah in the Hebron area and for trying to throw a grenade on an Israeli army Jeep which was patrolling in Occupied Hebron.

On a Tuesday afternoon, the 16th of January, an Israeli soldier shot his nine year old daughter, Abir, in the head as she was leaving school to go home. The soldier will not spend an hour in jail. In Israel, soldiers are not imprisoned for killing Arabs. Never. It does not matter whether the Arabs are young or old, real or potential terrorists, peaceful demonstrators or stone throwers. The army has not conducted an inquiry in Abir Aramin’s death. The police and the courts have questioned no one except for Abir’s sister, who was holding her hand while she was falling. The young sister was asked time and again how many meters were they from the school gate, from the kiosk, from the jeep.”

Click on the link for the rest of Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan’s article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/peled08082007.html

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

The Neocon Smokescreen  


by erlenda

The Christian Science Monitor tries to explain the Neocon mindset in it´s article “Empire builders-Neocon 101: Some basic questions answered”.

According to the article “Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.”
The Christian Science Monitor also assumes that, “Neocons envision a world in which the United States is the unchallenged superpower, immune to threats. They believe that the US has a
responsibility to act as a “benevolent global hegemon.” In this capacity, the US would maintain an empire of sorts by helping to create democratic, economically liberal governments in place of “failed states” or oppressive regimes they deem threatening to the US or its interests. In the neocon dream world the entire Middle East would be democratized in the belief that this would eliminate a prime breeding ground for terrorists. This approach, they claim, is not only best for the US; it is best for the world. In their view, the world can only achieve peace through strong US leadership backed with credible force, not weak treaties to be disrespected by tyrants.”

The Christian Science Monitor, however, has fallen for a smokescreen or what the Guru of the Neocon movement would call “a noble lie”. (Although only the Neocons themselves would see their lies as “noble”.)

The Neocons have never been interested in promoting democracy, at least not a democracy as everybody else would define it.

World peace is NOT a goal the Neocons dream about. It would quite obviously contradict their fundamental belief that every society needs an enemy so it can function and be ruled.

Neocon policies have trashed the American economy, plunged the country into deep debt,brought down the Dollar, neglected necessary infrastructure and overstretched the American military to the breaking point.

The Neocon Bush Administration has overturned large parts of the American constitution and laid the groundwork for a police-state. The American values of personal freedom and protection by the rule of civil law which are supposedly being defended in Iraq are being sacrificed at home.

But there is one point, where the Christian Science Monitor got it right: “Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel” but the second part of the sentence is again another smoke-screen: “which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region”.

Many of the Neocons have a history of an extensive working relationship with the Israeli government.
In a policy paper written by some of the Neocon architects for the Iraq war it states, that in order for Israel to “secure the realm” other Middle Eastern countries, first of all Iraq, must be broken into smaller states along ethnic and religious sectarian lines hostile towards each other.

So even after the breaking up of most Middle Eastern countries, peace is not an option. These mini-states must be kept in constant turmoil, so they will not be tempted to form an alliance which Israel might see as a threat.
This chaotic situation is not in the interest of the American military which would have to police it nor even in the interest of most of the American based corporations, except the military industrial complex.

The Neocons are not in the business of protecting the interests of the American people or even American corporate interest.

The Neocons were propelled into positions of power by a part of the global financial elite which shares their cynical views on humanity and finds their methods useful for the consolidation of capital and power.
For some inside this global financial elite the state of Israel had been a pet project since it´s inception.

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By rich, August 8, 2007 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i just watched a video of cops abusing a woman they stopped for a fake temp tag.  the woman told them she was 3 months pregnant and bleeding. the female cop ignored then abused her. she spent the night in jail and miscarried. if it were my wife there’d be one less JBT loose and i’d be executed. but under the neo-cons its not worth living anyway. being more sensible than i, she sued them personally. i also watched (again)
a documentary on Israels attack on the uss liberty.
Could this have been an attempt on a false-flag operation that in 1967 was to blame the event on egypt to get some moral acceptance for their war? It showed them that the us would support them no matter what they would do to any country.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 1:25 pm Link to this comment

#93158 by ocjim on 8/08 at 12:07 pm
What are you doing about it!
You do not even provide any arguments to support your assertions. At least some people here have, even though they drew their arguments from sewers and drainpipes.

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By ocjim, August 8, 2007 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment

We endlessly talk about this insult to humanity in Iraq but it continues because our so-called self-serving leaders don’t have the guts to stand up to our own White House tyrant.

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By 1drees, August 8, 2007 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Americans do ( silently) pride themselves as the great Warrior Nation, I mean look at the last 40 years & you will see 10 nations or people attacked. it is a Warrior Agenda of the Zionist Jews that you
“goyims” are under, see “Protocols of ZION”. Maybe you Goyims should start doing what the jews do to get things done in USA.
Maybe you people should circulate the News & the phone numbers to call in the days you goyims are running the campaign for the delivery of your message to the congress. and then assign people to remind others to make calls, all this requires organisation BUT your GOVT might not let you all Organise at all, coz the confiscation of iraq war opposer’s Property has been signed already.
THE US congress number and the instruction to call congress for flow of funds to Israel is always posted in some jewish papers and then there are people who call others on the phone to get them to make the call
and so that they do not forget. SEE how they insist on being heard while you Goyims just been living FREE fine & dandy in lalaland & your tax dollars been paying for tremendous losses to the other people eg
Palestinians, Pamanans, Nicraguans, etc etc & OF course the jews & the Israelis love you for that but they might not love you too much for that only.
Other Than that, unless Americans Steer away from the WW3, we all will be soon there. And in Wars there are always surprises and upsets coz barely ever any plan goes as per plan, iraq & vietnam are best examples, the army presumed the the resistance to roll over & play dead. Most of the world couldnt care less about Americans BUT its the Death & Destruction that you export that everyone abhors and wants to avoid.
America the Great land of ................ whatever, you bet, as long as you can stay away from killing and funding other people’s death. which in the the present situation is impossible as even the new
hopeful candidates are trying to feed the WAR HUNGRY by promising wars here And there. really astounding to hear when i thought that the nation was sick of wars & plundering. People couldnt care less BUT the
USA future is , of course, very WARRY in the next few years too UNLESS some people actually do try and cause a change it will be observed once again the “the good ol USofA” has Massacred another few millions.
US Forces have used all possible ILLEGAL WEAPONS in iraq BUT still are very limited in iraq, so that does mean that your technical superiority in death machines has been not much of a help, no matter how many you have killed so far, but you still managed to kill a little extra whose relatives take your soldiers out 1 by 1, maybe your bombings killed
complete blocks but these insurgents are so far quiet patient as were the vietnamese or indian Indians or other people who ever tried to resist occupation and/or imperialism. The American Indians tried their
best but they evidently failed &  the native could only complain of “White man speaks with forked tongue” ( translation the newcomming white
boys lie like hell & their word is worth ZILCH, sounds exactly like a typical American president except JFK)

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By Yahudit, August 8, 2007 at 11:26 am Link to this comment

Chris Hedges - Few have spoken truer words about this incredible piece of stupidity that we will have to live with for the next several generations.  I wish there sufficient adjectives to describe the crimes committed by this administration in our name.

I remember the day Colin Powell was making the administration’s case for the illegal pre-emptive strike against Iraq at the UN and I am screaming at the TV screen, “You are selling lies and no one there is buying it. This is so wrong!”  If a grandmother in Tenino, WA could see it how is it that so many so called “smart folks” in all the high places could not see it?  Doesn’t anyone read history anymore - did they ever?  Is that why we keep making the same mistakes over and over again?

There is no way the oil and water can be worth the price that is being paid?

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By atheo, August 8, 2007 at 10:09 am Link to this comment

Cyrena,

I find it curious that you would accept the myth that conspiracies are impossible to keep hidden. We all know that sailors on the USS Liberty were threatened not to expose what had happened and it took decades for them to speak up. Thousands of people would have been aware of this. The same applies to the Kennedy assasination, although in that case it would appear that many were preemptively eliminated as well. In fact, those who speak up can simply be ignored by the MSM and their voice is impotent. So what if a few thousand people know the truth? What are they going to do about it? The masses prefer the myth, that’s the problem.

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By Sam, August 8, 2007 at 9:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re. #93072:
The companies who discovered the oil in the middle east are “private crooks” according to one reader.  This view that private companies are evil is used by those who want governments to take over.  I heard it all through my university years from my professors, and parroted by many students.  It is the dominant view in modern times which is why our oil companies were nationalized in the middle east, why no one came to their defense, and why the oil is now being fought over by middle eastern power-lusters.  If the oil companies are so evil, then no one should be alarmed if they withdraw their services from the middle east, and let the tribes glory in their primitivism without them.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 9:36 am Link to this comment

#93119 by cyrena on 8/08 at 8:20 am

I agree with you cyrena; however, it is capital and knowledge that is required in order to end-up with value, and value is what is at stake. A capitalist is someone who has money- puts it into circulation- and comes out with more money at the end. If they can’t come out with more money they with-draw what is left of their money and the “Oil stop’s flowing.”

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

#93109 by Bill Abernathy on 8/08 at 7:21 am

Bill, it was I who made the comment about possession being 9/10s of the law, and I was directing it to Sam, (who you are also directing this comment to).

My point was that the oil in Iraq belongs to the Iraqis, NOT the private oil companies, as Sam suggested. So, you’re right about his “Imperial Mentality”, and I took exception to what he was saying.

The term is NOT a “kindergarten” term, since that average kindergartener isn’t really ready for the concept of “law”. I agree however that it is old, and stands in place for rhetoric in certain instances. In this instance, I was suggesting that the OIL could hardly “belong” to the private oil companies, when it’s under Iraqi SOIL.

I also took exception with Sam’s claim that the Arabs have no “brainpower” and so it’s up to the “private oil companies” (American of course)to do the necessary drilling and extraction, because the Iraqis wouldn’t otherwise be able to do it.

Last but not least, I added that so far, the Iraqis y’ve managed to keep Halliburton from GETTING to their oil. (or at least the vast majority of it).

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 8:56 am Link to this comment

#93111 by Verne Arnold on 8/08 at 7:50 am

Where are you…..and where are you going?

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By Verne Arnold, August 8, 2007 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Are you people fucking crazy?  The last 20 or 40 threads are nothing but egotistical bullshit.  You post and attack and defend and attack while the real enemy laughs at your “killing each other off” in your silly internal battles while the real enemy destroys you and leaves you with nothing but slavery and poverty of the worst kind.  Forget your petty obsession with useless, petty details…if you can’t see the force for the trees your already dead…the fascists have already won…can you really not see this?

Just look at your impotent “democratic representatives in control” who are the biggest joke in the history of this “Republic”...they just sold you down the river and you have the audacity to post here and spout your senseless crap? 

Get a grip…I’m out of here!!!!!!!  I’m not dying for the likes of you!

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 8:21 am Link to this comment

#93053 by Sam on 8/07 at 11:27 pm

I love what you say here …”Possession is 9/10th of the law.” Sounds a bit Imperialistic to me!

What I wonder is, why are dead phrases like that even considered by adults, that is a phrase right out of kindergarten.

But then there hasn’t been any consistency coming from the phrasemongers and windbags, who distort facts, pass off friends as enemies, and enemies as friends that make-up most of the posts on this thread!

You really ought to learn something about the New Imperialism…

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By Bill Abernathy, August 8, 2007 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

#93079 by the 1Sgt on 8/08 at 4:41 am

You make the point that it was the Arabs who betrayed the Palestinians- just as history clearly shows.

Then you ask “Why could Palestine not have benefited from “independence” like the rest of the colonized lands held by England? Or France, or Belgium, or the Netherlands?”…..I’ll tell you why…there never existed a State of Palestine…………. nor is there now…thanks to the Arabs who robbed the people of that land the opportunity for a social Democracy, wanting to hold them hostage to the Imams.

You really ought to be reading a little history and not people like the author of this article…If truthdig editors really wanted truth they would balance their stories.

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By Ade Duction, August 8, 2007 at 7:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

INFERENCE
You forgot to say that another reason Bush
started the war was that, after Iraq was subdued, his Jewish advisors - Wolfowitz et al., wanted America to also invade and conquer Syria and Iran and any other Arab state in the Middle East that didn’t want to succumb (like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have reconciled themselves) to Israel’s rule and oversight of the area. Once this was accomplished Bush would go down in American history as the greatest President since Washington and Lincoln combined. Israel’s public relations reps in the United States - America’s mass media (i.e., the book corporations, Hollywood studios, television networks, TIME-Warner, Spielberg, Newsweek, New York Times, radio, et. al. even America’s education structure - all the Universities) would guarantee it. Then Bush’s picture would be hung alongside other great American Presidents like General George Washington’s and Abe Lincoln’s in all of America’s grammar school and high school classrooms, making all his cowboy and big-business friends,  his Dad and Mom and the rest of his family real proud of him.

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By Skruff, August 8, 2007 at 6:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#93072 by cyrena on 8/08 at 3:05 am

#93053 by Sam on 8/07 at 11:27 pm

• The oil belongs to the people of the middle east?  No it does not.  It belongs to the private companies who discovered the oil in the first place and who found a way to raise it from beneath the sands.

Sorry Sam,

But, this just isn’t the way it works outside of the U.S. There are these laws you see, that prevent these “private crooks” from going into another country (without invitation or contract) and ripping off their oil. Possession is 9/10th of the law. To suggest that it is not their oil, when they are living on top of it, is as full of hubris and arrogance as the mob who has attempted to do exactly that, in Iraq.”

I sincerely hope I don’t sound as silly when I speak about things as complicated as the relationship between the Middle East and the US Oil Companies.

I’m not going to waste people’s time by posting a “manafesto” But I would suggest that folks who are interested in this subject start by researching ARAMCO accronyn for Abab/American Oil Company. 

I believe you will get a better picture of how oil profits are shared.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 5:50 am Link to this comment

#93074 by the 1Sgt on 8/08 at 3:52 am: “...DC, you have again done a wonderful job explaining what appears so confusing to many Americans….... “the Israelis are our allies”....only when it benefits them, other wise they spy on us….“we are free to terminate the relationship of massive aid every year”....WRONG….not the way our congress is worked by AIPAC….”

Thanks for your kind words, ‘the 1Sgt’ - you are now promoted to 2Sgt - oops! By the way, I do not pretend to be 100% accurate on all of the detail all of the time but I do try to get the general outline correct - as it really is!

I once used to think like you. Then I slowly discovered the rest of the story….. and the Palestinain refugees. Now, with the internet, the research is fairly easy. There are no more excuses…..

***************************************************
#93075 by Howard on 8/08 at 4:10 am: “...What if the Arabs had accepted the United nations partition plan of 1947, dividing the rmainder of madatory Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state…?”

Gee, what if the Jews had accepted living alongside of their Arab Christian and Moslem brothers and sisters - as they once always did - instead of stealing all the land (it was a land grab, you know)???

****************************************************
#93073 by Nabih Ammari on 8/08 at 3:35 am: “...During such long walks,I had never felt threatened or unsecured in the slightest sense.On the contrary,I have found the Iraqi People most helpful, receptive, gracious and cooperative…”

This is not unusual most places in Asia. For Asia, I mean anywhere between Turkey and Taiwan. People are not like the Anlgo-Saxon/Anglo-Celtic countries especially with their truculent ways and attitudes…..

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By the 1Sgt, August 8, 2007 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

#93075 by Howard on 8/08 at 4:10 am
(3 comments total)

What if the Arabs had accepted the United nations partition plan of 1947, dividing the rmainder of madatory Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state?  What if after the aftermath of Israel’s 1948 war of independence the Arab states had assilmilated the refugees into their societies, rather than leave them to fester in refugee camps for generatons?

====================================================
The Palestinian Arabs never had a voice in the matter. It was the Egyptians, Saudis, Iraqis and Iranians who voted against partition for them. In any case, why should the Arabs (all of them) have voted to partition a land passed from generations of locals so a recent minority wave of Russian/European jewish immigrants could have their own state?

Why could Palestine not have benefited from “independence” like the rest of the colonized lands held by England? Or France, or Belgium, or the Netherlands?

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By Howard, August 8, 2007 at 5:10 am Link to this comment

What if the Arabs had accepted the United nations partition plan of 1947, dividing the rmainder of madatory Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state?  What if after the aftermath of Israel’s 1948 war of independence the Arab states had assilmilated the refugees into their societies, rather than leave them to fester in refugee camps for generatons?

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By the 1Sgt, August 8, 2007 at 4:52 am Link to this comment

#93062 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/08 at 12:58 am
(511 comments total)

#92783 by ETWolverine on 8/07 at 7:32 am: “...Somehow, we have gone from the article above which never mentions Jews, Zionists or Israel to a discussion of how Jews, Zionists and Israel are the cause of the war in Iraq…. The entire idea is rediculous when compared with actual facts.  But it is said with such a straight face that people believe it…... Please explain to me why I should believe that these ideas, which are patently false, are anything but anti-Semitism couched in intelectualism…...?”

What “anti-Semitism”, ETW? Even people from the M.East will tell you that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and the story about the crocodile and the snake crossing the river (or the Red Sea) - the snake bit the crocodile and they both drowned! Its an ancient history of conflict…...
===================================================

DC, you have again done a wonderful job explaining what appears so confusing to many Americans.

I was like ETW and many others at one time. When people brought in the Israel piece into the scheme of things I could not believe it. “The Israelis are the good guys” I thought….wrong, unfortunately when one sees what they are doing in Gaza and the west bank (with our weapons).....“the Israelis are our allies”....only when it benefits them, other wise they spy on us….“we are free to terminate the relationship of massive aid every year”....WRONG….not the way our congress is worked by AIPAC.

The United States is not a free country. I know this is not good news to you ETW, but we essentially do first what is good for Israel. Ariel Sharon said “we own America”. He was right.

Israel is using us to fight their perpetual wars with Arabs over disputed land. The GOP is in charge of the White house and saving Israel is good for business and the MiC and Oil.

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By Nabih Ammari, August 8, 2007 at 4:35 am Link to this comment

I came across"TruthDig” by sheer accident.I am glad that i had stumbled to discover an extremely informative website.
I read Mr.Chris Hedges’book entitled"American Fascists” and admired the content of the book because it boldly exposed the real fascists in the U.S. exactly as they should be exposed.Now,I have just finished reading his brilliant article entitled
“Beyond Disaster” in which he professionally exposed
our involvement in the expensive muds of Iraq and to
where eventually would lead us.Being an old hand in
the affairs of the Middle East,I totally agree with
his analysis and assessment.However,I wish to add my own personal experience in Iraq and compare it with the content of Mr.Chris Hedges’ analysis and assessment:
During the administrations of Presidents Carter,Reagan and part of the first BushI was stationed in Amman,Jordan,working for an American
corporation.As the General Manager for the company’s Middle East Operations,Iraq was one of the countries I had to cover.I used to make business trips to Iraq on Regular basis.In each trip I used to stay in Iraq about ten days and I used to stay at the Shareton
Hotel which was located opposite to the Meridien Hotel in almost downtown Bagdad.At the end of a very
busy day I used to eat my supper at the Sheraton and sometimes at the Meridien for a change.After supper I used to take a very long walk,all alone,as an exercise sothat I could get a good night sleep and be well rested for next day business activities.During such long walks,I had never felt threatened or unsecured in the slightest sense.On the contrary,I have found the Iraqi People most helpful,receptive,gracious and cooperative.I paid business visits to universities,hospitals,research organizations,food control organizations,pharmaceuticals and any other technical you could imagine.With all candor,I must say the following:inspite of eight years of war with Iran,during the two terms of President Reagan,Iraq was functioning well under Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party.There is no question in my mind that Saddam and the Baathists ran the country with remarkable effeciency despite the ferocious war with Iran
Comparing what I have just described above to what Mr.Chris Hedges has embodied in his article"beyond Disaster”,one may reach the same conclusion I have reached a long time ago: the Iraqi people were much better off under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein than under the phony democracy brought to them under American tanks and according to the whim of their occupiers who carried to them illegal and absolutly immoral war.
Sincerely,
Nabih Ammari,an Independent in Ohio.

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 4:05 am Link to this comment

#93053 by Sam on 8/07 at 11:27 pm

•  The oil belongs to the people of the middle east?  No it does not.  It belongs to the private companies who discovered the oil in the first place and who found a way to raise it from beneath the sands.

Sorry Sam,

But, this just isn’t the way it works outside of the U.S. There are these laws you see, that prevent these “private crooks” from going into another country (without invitation or contract) and ripping off their oil. Possession is 9/10th of the law. To suggest that it is not their oil, when they are living on top of it, is as full of hubris and arrogance as the mob who has attempted to do exactly that, in Iraq.

And, maybe that’s why now, 5 years into the disaster that has killed millions, and destroyed the fabric of that nation, Cheney STILL doesn’t have his oil. Apparently those Arabs just don’t agree with you, that they should hand over their resources to your private US or other private companies. Matter-of-fact, the Iraqi Congress just left for their own summer recess, WITHOUT passing the oil theft/heist law that Cheney has been trying to shove down their throats at gunpoint. So, who does it belong to now? So far, I’d say it still belongs to them. If the private companies can’t get to it, it can’t really BELONG to them now, CAN IT?

I bet the Iraqis, (who have more than a few professionals within their national energy industry) might be willing to sell it. But, Cheney has wasted all of our money trying to steal it for his “private buddies” so who knows if we’ll ever be able to buy it from them. They certainly have other customers. And, the cowboys from the private companies aren’t the only ones who know how to collect oil, though it would appear that they can’t even do that right.

Meantime, the families of the American military didn’t send there loved ones to Iraq to steal oil. So, they may just refuse to be there any longer. What’s cheney gonna do then?

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By Denis, August 8, 2007 at 3:12 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a mess!!

Just give the “peaceful” Kurds $10 billion dollars and a lot of weapons so they can defend themselves from the Turks and Iranians. Tell them if they attack Iran or Turkey they will get no more money.

And support anyone else in Iraq who just wants to defend themselves and not attack others. Good luck finding them! But at least try.

We also need to allow immigration to all who helped us. They are in for a BAD time when we leave or lose.

And we should just come home.  Now as soon as we can arrange it.

Stick a fork in it. We are done. America screwed up. We can NOT fix Iraq without killing more people than will be killed anyway when we leave. And we really can fix it by doing what the Russians did when they subjugated Moslem countries early in the 20th century, which is by being incredibly brutal and ruthless. And threatening to kill 50% of the males in a village and actually killing entire villages. Word gets out. People will quit shooting at you. Hitler knew how to do it by killing every tenth man in villages with freedom fighters. It will work. At least on the surface for a few generations. Become Saddam Hussein and you will be ruthless enough to control Iraq and bring “peace”. I do not want to be part of this evil against God. I do not want America to do it either, no matter how much we sugar coat it that we are “saving” Iraq and fighting the Islamic facists. What idiocy. How easily we are manipulated!

We are the good guys. We do not do that sort of thing. (Or did not used to anyway!) We also did not threaten preemptive wars and look for excuses to go to war, well maybe we did but we did not brag about it and deny it or change the story when caught in a lie about WMDs. (Well maybe Gulf of Tonkin.)

Just come home.

I am tired of the killing and the 5 year old girls being deliberately killed because they happen to be in a house with the #2 bad guy in Iraq. Necessary collateral damage? She and her mother did not deserve to die. I do not want to be part of the killing.

I am ashamed of America.

I want Osama Bin Laden and George Bush in jail together for war crimes.  Osama can not get to Bush and Bush can not kill Osama. So they both think it is OK to kill a lot of other innocent people who just want to live in peace without suffering.

Ron Paul is right:
“Just come home.”  “Just come home.”

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By cyrena, August 8, 2007 at 2:44 am Link to this comment

#92949 by Bill Abernathy on 8/07 at 3:28 pm
#92943 by atheo on 8/07 at 3:12 pm
“…conspiracy theories are very popular and appealing. Even when they don’t make sense and there’s just no proof, many people still believe them. Why?

From what I can read and trace of this, Mr. Abernathy is responding to something that atheo posted, although the wording is actually from an Internet documentfor which Mr. Abernathy provided the link.
http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/conspiracytheories.html)

At any rate, regardless of who did the original cut and paste from this piece, I did in fact read the entire thing, and found much logic to be considered. And, it makes me wonder if in fact whomever posted these words, bothered to read the entire thing.

Here are some other quotes from it:


•  Most conspiracy theories don’t make sense nor withstand any scrutiny. They usually involve operations so immense that it’s basically impossible for them to be kept secret, and all the proof given by conspiracy theorists usually have a very simple explanation (usually much simpler than the explanation given by the theorists).

This is exactly what I’m hearing in most of the alternative theories for 9-11. IOW, there ARE simple explanations for the things that they pounce on the most, as being “proof” of a conspiracy. In the case of 9-11, they don’t get that the “official story” is itself a “conspiracy” but that doesn’t mean that there are not elements of it that aren’t true. Matter of fact, the best way to “arrange” such a scam, is to keep it as close to the “truth” as possible, changing only what needs to be changed. So, the creators of the “alternative” conspiracies, (like so many of our posters here) focus on “pieces” of the official conspiracy, that: 1). DO have perfectly simple explanations, or 2), are totally irrelevant to the whole thing. (like the nationalistic make-up of the alleged highjackers)…who cares if there were 10.3 Saudis, 3.7 Yemenis, 1.4 Egyptians, or .05 Sudanese? NOBODY. We accept, (in part on face value, but also on huge collections of historical data) the official story that “al-Qaeda” was involved, because there’s every logical reason to believe that, based on what we knew of them –then- and what we all know more about NOW.

That has NEVER been a reason to NOT to the obvious other lies of the official story. But, in the either/or mentality of some conspiracy theorists, it can only be one or the other. Either al-Qaeda did it, or the US government did. They have yet to consider that BOTH of these entities could have been involved in that operation.

….”The so-called “bandwagon effect” is a psychological phenomenon where people are eager to believe things if most of the people around them believe that too. Sometimes that thing is true and there’s no harm, but sometimes it’s a misconception, urban legend or, in this case, an unfounded conspiracy theory, in which case the “bandwagon effect” bypasses logical thinking for the worse.”..

This too, comes from the same article. In short, it describes most folks. They either believe in the “official conspiracy” because that’s what most were inclined to do at the beginning, because that’s what the feds were selling, and they didn’t know anything more. Then we get a few years into the history, and everybody comes up with their own version of the “conspiracy” just because it’s no longer “popular” to believe it, (or, in some cases, because they’ve done some thinking, and research, and realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE to believe.) Still, it doesn’t give them enough to ever prove any of these alternative conspiracies, and so it’s as bad as the original one, if not worse.

The resulting confusion is exactly what the original conspirators hoped for, and it is how the confusion is maintained.

The “conspiracy” on Iraq however, (which has been covered up for years by the neo-cons) is now out in the open. It’s a disaster beyond disasters.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 2:03 am Link to this comment

#92794 by Mooser on 8/07 at 7:50 am: “...How long is inevitable? I have been waiting seven years for the next “inevitable” attack by “Islamic terrorists”. Don’t those people have any sense of sticking to a shedule?
Last time, they managed to knock down two of the tallest buildings with box-cutters. Imagine what would happen if they had a gun? They could probably level New Orleans and collapse a couple of bridges with one shot…!”

The only thing that is inevitable is that there will be more bridges falling down and electricity power brown-outs and black-outs - maybe a few collapsed dams and buildings, too. Nero played fiddle while Rome burned…... Bush is laughing at you while you wait for the obvious!

There were no box-cutters and you can’t hijack a jet passenger plane with them. As you say, New Orleans has already been “levelled” but little has been done while NY is well on the way to having yet another trade centre for people to bomb.

The only “sense of sticking to a schedule” so far is that Cheney has predicted another terrorist attack in the same way that Wolfowitz predicted an attack earlier in 2001 just a few months before 9/11. They’re very well organized in that respect at the White House…...!!!

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 8, 2007 at 1:58 am Link to this comment

#92783 by ETWolverine on 8/07 at 7:32 am: “...Somehow, we have gone from the article above which never mentions Jews, Zionists or Israel to a discussion of how Jews, Zionists and Israel are the cause of the war in Iraq…. The entire idea is rediculous when compared with actual facts.  But it is said with such a straight face that people believe it…... Please explain to me why I should believe that these ideas, which are patently false, are anything but anti-Semitism couched in intelectualism…...?”

What “anti-Semitism”, ETW? Even people from the M.East will tell you that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” and the story about the crocodile and the snake crossing the river (or the Red Sea) - the snake bit the crocodile and they both drowned! Its an ancient history of conflict…...

The naivety of Westerners is based on the illusion that God is somehow Jewish (because of the OT in their bible embracing Judaism). When they discover what the Jews are really like at least as far as Israel is concerned (“its either us or them”), they get irrationally upset and resentful. Sadly, both sets of shortcomings are true…...

Quote ETW: “...The insistence by some that the Jews are trying to solidify control of their land because of the natural resources contained therein is ludicrous.  Israel is probably the most resource poor country in the Middle East. .....Next is the idea that Israel somehow can controll the USA with regard to the war in Iraq.  Is this the same Israel that George H W Bush forced to stay out of the first Gulf War, even after they were attacked by Iraq with 32 Scud missiles, because it would ruin Bush’s coalition if Israel got involved? .....That a piddling little country the size of New Jersey can pull the strings of the most powerful nation in the world…...?”

They not only want control of what is not and never was exclusively their land - Palestine - but they now want to expand their sphere of influence throughout the M.East. They wish to do so because they are insecure. They are insecure because they have stolen the land they now call Israel and have bombed or threatened to bomb their neighbours…... as far away as Iran!

In order to exert the regional control they desire, they must get the backing of the USA. They do not influence the government so much as individual politicians. The reason they can influence them is because so many pander to ignorant (or naive) Christians in their electorates who still somehow equate Israel with the outdated fantasies taught to them by their incompetent and irresponsible priests.


Quote ETW: “....The same Jews who are less than 1% of the US population?  The same ones who are overwhelmingly anti-Bush and anti-War?  The same ones who overwhelmingly vote and donate Democrat?  Are these the ones you believe are pulling Bush’s strings to go to war in Iraq…..?”

Well, there you are. Its up to Jews to do something positive about the Israeli Zionist-imperialist agenda, too. Many of them are, as you say. Maybe not enough and maybe not loudly enough. Some in Israel protest against their government’s actions as well. The bombing of Lebanon was seen there as a military disaster. Things are slowly changing as a result.

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By Inference, August 8, 2007 at 1:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges believes that “The war in Iraq may get a lot worse.” I say so what?  Do you think Bush genuinely cares. Robots don’t feel unless they’re programmed to feel. (Bush Jr. is a natural born political-robot, who only speaks deftly only when he is repeating or reading what someone else has written for him. He falters like a dimwit when he tries to extemporize on his own. Behind his dissemblance there is a no-nothing undereducated mediocrity, a used-car salesman par excellance, elected by a hopelessly unconscious, mediocre electorate.
His primary reason for starting the war was to insure his reelection in 2004. This is what all his advisors were focused on ever since his his election in 2000 - ensuring his re-election and doing whatever they needed to do to clinch it fearing they may not be as lucky in 2004.
Bush and Cheney, two undereducated cowboys, moronically thought that what their English ancestors had managed to accomplish so successfully i.e., conquer 25 million indigenous American Indians to bring them democracy - they would also be able to do in Iraq. But getting something right isn’t all that simple if don’t have the most important requisite - intelligence. Hopelessly undereducated people have the almost infinite ability of taking things for granted.
By using only their casual highschool knowledge of history i.e.,  American, British French colonial history and not consulting with Iraqi people living in America, Bush & Co. foolishly thought that winning the war in Iraq would be as easy all the other American imperialistic wars. (Mexico, Cuba, Panama, etc)
Bush invaded Iraq because he knew that AIPAC and Israel’s public relations representative in the
United Sates - America’s mass media - would suppress criticism in Congress and would control and manipulate the news to ensure that the gullible American public would buy into it.
Bush also wanted to finish what his farther George Sr. had been criticized by America’s mass
media for not doing at the end of the 1991 War - finish off Saddam and eliminate the 400,000
member Iraq army which was a threat to Israel’s security. Bush also knew another war would offer them the occasion to help their business friends. The war would benefit Bush directly since these corporations would then be indebted to him and help him get re-elected.
The more Bush thought about Iraq the more outstanding the idea appeared. It had all pluses and no minuses. It was a win-win situation and in retrospect you can’t fault him for thinking that way. The Iraq war offered them all these NOBLE purposes!  They were:  starting the war thus making the Jews happy and Israel more secure and thus getting re-elected.(Israel’s public relations agent in the United States - America’s mass media - would guarantee it); finishing the job that your father had been criticized for not performing; helping his rich Republican friends and their corporations thereby obligating them in 2004; freeing an oppressed people from a dangerous dictator and giving them the gift of democracy (election of the extraordinarily mediocre by ordinary mediocrity); and finally finding a cheap source of oil for his Texan friends’ companies and free petroleum and water for Israel. It was all so Hollywood -  nothing but a happy, smiling, congratulating ending for all.
Who expected that the simple technically backward Iraqi’s would put up such a fervent, violent
(successful?) resistance against the technically superior America, Britain, Australian armies?

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By Sam, August 8, 2007 at 12:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no way out once you let tribal thugs nationalize your oil fields.  Our cowardly capitulation to middle eastern raiders in the 70s has lead us to this.  The oil belongs to the people of the middle east?  No it does not.  It belongs to the private companies who discovered the oil in the first place and who found a way to raise it from beneath the sands.  That the oil has any value at all is a western achievement made possible by the invention of the internal combustion engine, among other western creations.  Now the desert tribes want to fight over what the intellectuals have told them is “their” oil.  What must be our response?

Either we honor the original property rights of the companies who were violated thirty years ago, and take back the oil; or we must withdraw our brainpower which the tribes need to run the oil rigs.  We must stand up for our lives, brush aside the anti-industrialists here at home and build nuclear power plants, and any other energy sources we see fit to fulfill our lives, here in America for our own use.

Perhaps a day will dawn when the people of the middle east will discover the sanctity and efficacy of the individual, and get on with the promise of their own lives.  But that will be generations in the future.  Until then, let them have the world they aspire to now, and let us look after our own.  The best people in the middle east who truly care about their land will gain from the ideas and examples we set here.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

#93031 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/07 at 9:23 pm

•  …..Iran’s “growing influence” is inevitable given that the USA has made such blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan. There never was a “war” but the US (and/or Israel) keeps insisting on having one. Now, they face mounting resentment and opposition from all nations in the region except the one favorite pariah. What is more, a real war with Iran, fanciful as it is, would immediately double the price of oil - if it was at all available from the Gulf. “The USA has itself caught in its own cleft stick and is wriggling desperately.”…

Ta DA! This last sentence says it all. The morons only THOUGHT they were slick, because this mob has never had any regard for any humans other than themselves. They just assume that everybody else in the world is a stupid as they are, and focused on the same values and ideals. And if not, then they’ll just wipe them out. But, that hasn’t happened. So now, the blowback comes, because of THEIR ignorance and hubris, but WE all become the targets of that blowback. THEY will all escape into the sunset. Cheney to Dubai, and george to South America.

•  The REAL RISK is that Israel (and/or its ethnic Zionist war-mongers elsewhere) will now try to coerce the USA into attacking Iran regardless of the consequences. That means that it would have to be a nuclear pre-emptive strike in order to “deter” Russia from retaliating. If the USA did, the Russians might still retaliate against Israel anyway. That, then, would be WW3!!!

I hate to say it, but we’re already in WW3, at least from where I’m sitting.

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 11:24 pm Link to this comment

#93009 by Robert on 8/07 at 6:44 pm

•  Cyrena, atheo and all others…take a look at what the Palestinians of Bethlehem (Christians & Moslems) have to go through to get back and forth to their town, home, families, schools…etc…
Robert, for ME at least, you’re preaching to the choir on this. I’ve already witnessed this, -first hand-. I KNOW what they go through. I know that 50% of the Palestinian population living in the current prisons of the occupied territories are also maimed and tortured through the Israeli Military Court system, and the Israelis actually have the gall to think this system is some sort of Justice. The occupiers have special license plates though, and they have none of these concerns. They go wherever they want, and are answerable to NO ONE, including the Israeli government.

And, it’s becoming that way here as well.

So, I definitely get this. It wouldn’t hurt for some others to read it though.

The dirty bastards!!! (That’s what my grandma would have called them).

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By nonsequitor, August 7, 2007 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment

‘The real disater is that Christianity has allowd itself to be usurped as a religion founderd on the life and teachings of Jesus by taking up Judaism in the old testament as its history’

the real disaster is christianity. smile

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 7, 2007 at 10:23 pm Link to this comment

#92929 by atheo on 8/07 at 2:37 pm: RE “A borderless state is no solution” - guardian.co.uk - “For weeks now, America and Israel have talked up the idea that, contrary to all appearances, a peace initiative may be afoot in the Middle East. Last week Condoleezza Rice, announced a $63bn package in military aid to the Middle East, aiming to counter Iran’s growing influence in the region, but also shoring up Arab support for a peace initiative. Yesterday Olmert met the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank town of Jericho. Mr Olmert said that Israel and the Palestinians would expand negotiations to “formulate a framework” that would allow both sides to move towards establishing a Palestinian state….....  Tackling Iran’s nuclear ambitions may be a higher priority in Washington than ending the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, but the two are inseparably linked. The support of Saudi Arabia and other Arab states against Iran still requires movement on Palestine….”

Marvellous how $30 billion in military aid to Israel could encourage “peace” in the M.East. Then again, if the USA wants to create a borderless state for Palestinians, they must have the tacit acceptance of the people who have usurped their state in the first place. After all, Israel is the “borderless state” which has parasitically engulfed the majority of Palestine. No such place as “Israel” previously existed - except in the minds of fanatics and religious fools.

Iran’s “growing influence” is inevitable given that the USA has made such blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan. There never was a “war” but the US (and/or Israel) keeps insisting on having one. Now, they face mounting resentment and opposition from all nations in the region except the one favorite pariah. What is more, a real war with Iran, fanciful as it is, would immediately double the price of oil - if it was at all available from the Gulf. The USA has itself caught in its own cleft stick and is wriggling desperately.

As the Bushehr nuclear reactor in Iran is being built and commissioned by the Russians, any attack on it would have far-reaching consequences. The USA stamps its foot but may do nothing. Israel is in another situation as a result of its implied threats to attack Iran as it did with Iraq. If it does, Russia will “wipe Israel off tthe map” entirely.

The REAL RISK is that Israel (and/or its ethnic Zionist war-mongers elsewhere) will now try to coerce the USA into attacking Iran regardless of the consequences. That means that it would have to be a nuclear pre-emptive strike in order to “deter” Russia from retaliating. If the USA did, the Russians might still retaliate against Israel anyway. That, then, would be WW3!!!

Whatever Bill Abernathy says about the Arab Palestinians (#92825 on 8/07 at 9:58 am), the implications of the current state of play in the M.East are now significantly more far-reaching and serious to warrant any continued distraction by the foolishness and pig-headedness still being indulged in by “Israeli” Jews and their remaining Arab “Palestinian” neighbours.

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By Douglas Chalmers, August 7, 2007 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

#93010 by atheo on 8/07 at 6:53 pm: “...In his little racist mind, all Arabs are terrorists and need to be annihilated. He is epitomy of pathological malevolence….”

In Italy (and many W.European nations), they would say “we are not racist - it is you who are black”!

*************************************************

#92977 by Lefty on 8/07 at 4:38 pm rRE #92932 by Non Credo on 8/07 at 2:48 pm RE #92885 by atheo on 8/07 at 1:22 pm: “.....Godsend, You don’t understand. BA is not a religious or ethnic Jew, he’s a tribal Jew…... The idea is: “Jews are not a race, because you can convert to Judaism. But Jews are not a religion, because there are secular, atheist Jews.” .......It’s such a nice setup, because if somebody complains about discrimination against non-Jews being “racism”, you tell them they can to convert, so it’s not racism. then, if they say that’s “religious discrimination”, you tell them there are secular Jews, so it’s not religious discrimination. ......It’s a very nasty, devious form of religious/racial discrimination, worthy of a country that is foundationally dishonest - but make no mistake about it: it is both racism and religious discrimination….”

There you are, then. The fake religion which was cobbled together from other local religions of antiquity and a thick layer of “God’s chosen ones” applied to make it appear genuine. If the Jews ceased to exist, God would still exist along with Its Creation - it is the same for all religions and their disgusting priests.

The real disater is that Christianity has allowd itself to be usurped as a religion founderd on the life and teachings of Jesus by taking up Judaism in the old testament as its history. It is not the history of Western peoples and was actually a religion or culture which Jesus avowedly preached against. Modern Christians don’t seem to understand this.

Then, Christian priests deny that when challenged about it and try to link Jesus with Judaism as their means of denial and refusal to think incisively about their errors. They have thus effectively repudiated what Jesus’s teachings were all about. Again, they deny it. Now, we have arrived at the logical conclusion - the Western Christians stupidly supporting an “is us or them” rapacious tribe(?) in the M.East against the very people who supply their oil and buy their wheat and automobiles.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena,

In his little racist mind, all Arabs are terrorists and need to be annihilated. He is epitomy of pathological malevolence.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, August 7, 2007 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena, atheo and all others…take a look at what the Palestinians of Bethlehem (Christians & Moslems) have to go through to get back and forth to their town, home, families, schools…etc…

Take a look at the so called Israeli Apartheid fence(cute name) for it.

Click on the link to see the horrors of Israel’s Nazi Racism:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/GeoPoints/Bethlehem_536/Picture_11178.html

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By cyrena, August 7, 2007 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

•  #92944 by Lefty on 8/07 at 3:17 pm
(579 comments total)
What I’d like to know is, why do arab, islamist, fundamentalist, terrorists and suicide bombers get any U.S. aid at all!  Not only should they be cut off from receiving weapons, they should be cut off from getting food and water!
++++++++++++++++++++++++
How does this have even the slightest thing to do with this article? The point of it is…, we have destroyed a nation and a population, and it’s getting worse, (even as we think that it couldn’t possibly get worse).
One in 3 civilians in Iraq are without access to food or water. The remaining population is being walled in, (making food and water and supplies inaccessible for millions of people), and anarchy prevails. There is no USAID around that I know of. So, I think you’ve already got your wish lefty. Too bad you weren’t there to “help”.

Maybe I should add that of the entire list of people that you’ve named here, it is the US Christian right - FUNDAMENTALISTS- who get all of the “US aid”.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment

The Jewish holocaust against the Palestinians:

Khalid Amayreh


Very little was known about this massacre until 1998 when an Israeli graduate student at HaifaUniversity, Teddy Katz, wrote his master’s thesis based on oral testimonies by both Jewish and Arab witnesses. The author meticulously examined these testimonies and concluded that a huge massacre, one that is bigger than the infamous massacre of Deir Yasin, took place at the coastal Palestinian village of Tantura on 23 May 1948.

Katz’s findings were first published in the Israeli newspaper, Ma’ariv, in 1998 and were corroborated by other testimonies and witness accounts by other survivors in refugee camps in both Jordan and the occupied Palestinian territories.

Of the 1,500 people, who made up the population of the village, it is believed that 1,300 were murdered by machine-gun fire. Some of the survivors fled to the nearby village of al-Fureidis, who, too, were eventually expelled to neighbouring Arab countries. The killings and expulsions were carried out by Hagana’s Third Battalion.

Today, only a shrine, a fortress, an ancient well and a few of the houses remain. Many date palm trees and some cactus plants are spread about the site, which was turned into an Israeli recreational area with swimming facilities. (All That Remains, pp. 194-195)

http://ptimes.org/main/default.aspx?xyz=BOgLkxlDHteZpYqykRlUuI1kx/VDUOFop5JlLlxqD8MUnYApxFKtv0AXztA9P9LSgV2sTSSDiOSlN9+IaDXQmJmhu/JIpIFwXTuf7BOCIZTj7CWdsuxRu6DKYyd8HlQuIrt/Hjg5yrs=

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

Testimony by Fawzi al-Tanji

Tanji, who miraculously survived the massacre by fleeing with the few who were not killed, was interviewed by the Israeli newspaper, Ma’ariv. The old man, who was 74 when the interview took place, began to sob as soon as he was asked to revive the memory of the massacre.

“They (the Jewish terrorists) took us to the village graveyard. They lined us up in several rows. A Jewish commander came and ordered his troops to pick ten. They did, and the chosen ten were lined up beside the cactus plants and were shot. They came back and chose another ten to remove the bodies of the murdered ten and then they themselves were killed.” Fawzi lamented, “Oh, how I wish I was also shot that day. It would have been much easier than living with the pain all these years.”

Another survivor, Abdul Razzaq al-Ashmawi, 64 at the time of the interview, told the story of how he lost 12 members of his family who were all shot on the doorsteps of their homes. He also described how more than 25 men were lined up in front of the village mosque and shot by the Hagana terrorists.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

Testimony by Muhammad Abu Hana, born in 1936, resident of the Yarmuk Camp

“We were awakened in the middle of the night by heavy gun fire. The women began to scream and run out of the houses, carrying their children, and gathered in several places in the village. I went out of the house, too, and began running around the streets to see what was going on. Suddenly a woman shouted to me: ‘Your uncle is wounded! Quick, bring some alcohol!’ I saw my uncle bleeding heavily from the shoulder. Being young, I was unconscious of the danger. I grabbed an empty bottle and ran to the dispensary nearby. Zahabiyya, the nurse, was there. She was one of the Christians of the village. She filled the bottle with alcohol, and I ran back to my uncle. The women cleaned the wound and took my uncle to our house where he hid from the soldiers in the grain attic. But the soldiers saw the trail of blood and soon burst in, asking my grandfather where my uncle was. My grandfather said he didn’t know. They left but came back several times with the same question. At some point my uncle, who was in pain, asked for a cigarette and my grandmother gave him one. When the soldiers came back again, the smell of the tobacco guided them to him. They took him away. On their way out, they insulted my grandfather and called him a liar, and he answered back that anyone would protect his own son.

“My uncle survived thanks to the intervention of the mukhtar of the Jewish colony Zichron Yaacov. He had good relations with my grandfather, who was the mukhtar of Tantura. At 9 in the morning, the shooting stopped and the attackers rounded everyone up on the beach.

“They sorted them out, the women and children on one side, the men on the other. They searched the men and ordered them to keep their hands above their heads. Female soldiers searched the women and took all their jewelry, which they put in a soldier’s helmet. They didn’t give them back when they expelled us to Furaydis. During the entire operation, military boats were offshore.

“On the beach, the soldiers led groups of men away and you could hear gun fire after each departure. Towards noon, we were led on foot to an orchard to the east of the village, and I saw bodies piled on a cart pulled by men of Tantura, who emptied their cargo in a big pit. Then trucks arrived and women and children were loaded onto them and driven to Furaydis. On the road, near the railroad tracks, other bodies were scattered about.”

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment

Charging Anti-Semitism To Silence Dissent
August 7, 2007

By Ida Audeh


...What do Israel’s apologists propose as a resolution to the conflict that grips Mandate Palestine, where 5.4 million Semitic Jews rule over 5.2 million Semitic Muslim and Christian Arabs? In the not too distant future, Jews will be a minority. Will Israel’s apologists continue to cry anti-Semitism when an Israeli Jewish minority dominates the non-Jewish majority, and will they denounce as anti-Semitism the inevitable and irrefutable description of Israel as an apartheid state?

Can Israel’s supporters support a state in which Jews, Muslims, and Christians have equal rights as citizens? Surely the goal of equality among all Semites in Mandate Palestine is worth pursuing by those who claim to be appalled by anti-Semitism…

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/08/charging-anti-semitism-to-silence.html

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment

#92973 by Lefty on 8/07 at 4:29 pm

I agree again…the biggest problem I see with it is that there are a great many young students who pick it up and then parrot it on University Campus’s, never stopping to investigate the original source. All they need to do is Google some of the phrase’s and they would discover the source. I see you know some history behind it…
White-supremest seem to just love the rhetoric too.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

#92972 by atheo on 8/07 at 4:22 pm
What! You think there is, or ever was, the Ideal government. Do you think you are superior because your hind-sight operates on some Ideal? You appear to believe in some absolute moral environment. This is what Religion teaches, but even Religion realizes that the Ideal is not in the present, but in the future.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

AB,

You must be right, Iran contra never happened. No body needed to be pardoned. Abrams, Poindexter, and Libby? Never existed. Nope. Not in the clean new America.

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By atheo, August 7, 2007 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment

Authority Figures

Even when they don’t make sense and there’s just no proof, many people still believe them. Why?
One big reason for this is that some authority figures are clever. They use psychology to make their theories sound more plausible. They appeal to certain psychological phenomena which make people to tend to believe them. However, these psychological tricks are nothing more than logical fallacies. They are simply so well disguised that many people can’t see them for what they are.

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By Bill Abernathy, August 7, 2007 at 5:12 pm Link to this comment

#92961 by Non Credo on 8/07 at 4:03 pm

You associated it with me.
I wonder, is this strawman something you read and are just parroting, or is it your brain-child?

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By cognitorex, August 7, 2007 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

Winning and Democracy in Iraq are Oxymoronic Concepts
.
(The death of a Cheney/Chalabi “Palm-ocracy”)

Iraq (as with its neighbors) was ruled by brutality and armed suppression before America began its occupation.
Iraq (as with its neighbors) will be ruled by brutality and armed suppression after the U.S. leaves.
No amount of troops or time frame under a half century will alter this formula.
America seeks to align itself with this, to-be-decided, new ruling force.
That this new ruling force will be a democracy is oxymoronic.
That the new ruling force will be a democracy aligned with the interests of the U.S. is even yet more naively ridiculous.
What the Cheney/neocon aggressors wanted and could have best hoped for, no matter how incompetent in assessing the tribal/religious nature of Iraq they were, would be to establish a “palmocracy.”
When Arafat died I opined that hopefully, eventually, a Sunni palmocrat of Arafat’s scheming mold would appear who would collect the graft and grease together a new working government. Tribes, religions, criminal elements, power seekers, moneyed neighbors with agendas and foreign born terrorists , as a mix, simply overwhelm this possibility.
Chalabi as a symbol of what a palmocracy might be was so enticing. Oh well!
Brutality and suppression will eventually create a new Iraq. The Iraqis want America out now. This desire can only increase.
It is entirely illogical that a ruling body will appear from the ashes of Iraq that will kiss the hand of its invader.
—One last tip, if you can, by stock in Crescent Condominium Development Limited. It’s listed on the Iranian Stock Exchange and is reputedly a real favorite of the Mullahs.—

Labels: Crescent Condominium Deveopment Ltd., democracy, Iraq, Iraq withdrawal, palm-ocracy

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