GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN. AFTER
4 YEARS OF WAR THE PRESIDENT HAS DECIDED TO GO AFTER AL QUAIDA. WOW! NOW HE WILL KEEP HIS PROMISE, DEAD OR ALIVE HAAAAAA HAAAAAA!

If I based my beliefs on the, entrails of pigs and the ashes of logs, I would make that known; however, I don’t. I try to base them on facts.

Now that I know you base your beliefs on Ideals, and not logic, I will be better able to make sense out of your conclusions.

BA:

The existence of God is not something I care to argue about - it is self-evident, in my opinion.

It’s sufficient to debate and criticize the actions of our government on the basis of the Constitution, our laws, truth ( derived from evidence or overwhelming ‘circumstantial evidence’ ) and the underlying principles on which America was founded.

BUT, you will NEVER comprehend The Puzzle (of Human Existence) unless you take spirituality (God) into consideration. Spirituality is part of Man’s identity - it sets us apart from the animal kingdom. That’s a personal matter, however, and only a valid topic for discussion by mutual consent! Engagement implies consent.

Godsend
The premise for this conclusion can only be based on an Ideal, because if it were based on fact- it would have to contradict most of history.

‘The behavior of Israel’s leaders just prior, during and after the creation of Israel defies all standards of human decency and humanitarian standards.’

ocjim, #92496 is it not a redeeming quality that Bush takes the time out of his busy day working hard (soneone’s gotta do it) in the oval office to run (for photos) in shorts with those American troops with prosthetic legs?

godsend

Is school prayer back? Is abortion outlawed? Do people work on Sunday? Are the 10 commandments again allowed in public buildings?

While I would agree to the proposition that- fundamentalist religion has an unparalleled influence in the highest government levels in the United States; it doesn’t follow logically that they are concentrating on, or, wringing their hands in way or another in anticipation of Armageddon.

They above all, like most Zionist, are focused on maintaining their respective country.

Roughly 87% of the populations who claim to never doubt the existence of God only a small percent, the fundamentalist, attempt a biblical argument to justify their religious beliefs for the existence of God, while the others (“religious moderation”) make no attempt at rational justification, they believe in God because this belief “gives their lives meaning.”

My view is based on the results published by the Pew Research center. Following is the URL if you care.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=757

“You will be sorrowful but your sorrow will be turned into joy”.

It helps to look beyond the tragic state of affairs in the ME and all the human suffering which occurs there daily and which is threatening to expand dramatically. The Palestinians have borne the brunt for many years, but many innocent people have suffered terribly and are still suffering - including many Israelis. Before the idea of a Jewish State came into existence, people lived there in (relative) peaceful coexistence.

The behavior of Israel’s leaders just prior, during and after the creation of Israel defies all standards of human decency and humanitarian standards. The list of violations is too long to even start. Who were/are those people and what right can they possibly claim to justify their actions?

There is Crime (against humanity and God) - and there is Punishment. There always has been and there will be again! Repentance is the only way of escape from the wrath of God. God is full of Grace and Mercy - but repentance and return to Him is the necessary 1st step. There are many people on all sides who must take that 1st step. Let’s suspend debate about God’s Name for now - whether it’s Allah or Yahweh or Jesus Christ. Who wants to hold their dead or maimed child in their arms for ANY reason? Who wants to see ANY child dead or maimed for ANY reason? Only a heartless and evil enemy of humanity!

“God is Love”.

Oil, Zionism, and the Christian desire for the return of Christ have all been mentioned as forces at play in the balkanization of the Middle East. I might add the Muslim conflict between Shia and Sunni fanatics as added fuel to the chaos enveloping the region.

This is a devil’s mixture that will explode in our faces with no party being the victor. It is so sad that we have come to this frightful edge from where we can see the depths of hell…

BA: “In God we trust”, “God bless America!”, etc.

DaveF: We agree!

GodSend:

“Pretty close!  I prefer to describe what we’re witnessing as: The Zionists are playing a deadly game of ‘Showdown’ with God - and they’re holding losing cards! Jewry had better get involved SOON and end this deadly game which is likely to produce lots of ‘collateral damage’!”

You have a point…. Not all Jews support the Zionists militant approach and not all Christians are hell bent to bring about Armageddon….

I apologize for implying such…

But there are enough fanatics in both camps that have the power and connections to push the moderate majority in each camp over the cliff…

If we start a shooting war with Iran I fear its curtains for millions....

I’m beginning to wonder if I stumbled in a Church here! American government is secular, as is Israel and Zionism.

Jeffrey Blankfort:

When Malaysian Prime Minister Mathahir Mohammed declared at an international Islamic Conference in Kuala Lumpur in mid-October, 2003 that “today the Jews rule the world by proxy [and] They get others to fight and die for them,[1] the reactions in the U.S. and the West were predictable.

It was “a speech that was taken right out of the Protocols of Zion,” according to one Israeli commentator[2], and Mathahir would be accused of imitating Hitler and insuring that “Muslims around the world are similarly being fed a regular diet of classic big lies about Jewish power.[3]

Big lies? Given Israel’s unchecked dominion over the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors over the past half century, supported in every way possible by the United States, one can assume that Muslims, not to mention intelligent non-Muslims, have no need for additional instruction as to the extent of Jewish power. As further proof of its existence, if such were needed, there would be no attempt to measure the Malaysian prime minister’s words against the reality of the times to determine if there was anything accurate in his assessment.

If Mathahir could be accused of anything, it would be of being sloppy historically and using too broad a brush. The Jews, as such, control nothing. A segment of American Jewry, however, has been able, with few exceptions, to shape U.S. Middle East policy since the mid-Sixties. Given America’s position as a major world power, and now its only superpower, that is not a small achievement.

Over the years, that segment, the organized American Jewish community - in short, the Israel lobby - has amassed unparalleled political power through skillfully combining the wealth of its members[4] with its extraordinary organizational skills to achieve what amounts to a corporate takeover of the U.S. Congress and virtual veto power over the presidency.

There is virtually no sector of the American body politic that has been immune to the lobby’s penetration. That its primary goal has not been to improve the security and well-being of the United States or the American people, but to advance the interests of a foreign country, namely Israel, may be debated, but it was acknowledged, in part, more than a dozen years ago by Sen. Howard Metzenbaum (D-Ohio), who complained to an annual conference of the National Jewish Community Relations Advisory Council that “There’s only one issue members [of Congress] think is important to American Jews - Israel."[5]

It was no secret that Israel had long been interested in eliminating the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and redrawing the map of the Middle East to enhance its power in the region.[6] Initiating that undertaking became a task for key individuals in and around the White House with deep roots in right-wing Israeli politics. The attack on the World Trade Center supplied the opportunity. That Iraq had nothing to do with it was immaterial. The lobby’s propaganda apparatus would make the American people believe otherwise.

The first step has been completed. Saddam Hussein has been removed, not by Israel, but by the U.S. and its “coalition of the willing.” From the perspective of the Israelis and, one must assume, the lobby, it is better that American and foreign soldiers do the shedding of blood, Iraqi and their own, rather than those of Israel, the world’s fourth ranked military power. Such an accusation will most assuredly draw cries of “blood libel” from the likes of the Anti-Defamation League, but it is a conclusion that one can readily draw from the facts. The degree to which the present Iraq situation, as well as the first Gulf War, can be attributed to efforts of key individuals and the major Jewish organizations that constitute the lobby is what this article will examine:

full article

http://www.leftcurve.org/LC28WebPages/WarForIsrael.html

Good analysis- Counselor1

Capital is absolutely necessary
“…U.S. long-term military occupation of these oil field areas is the only thing that would cause oil companies to make the multi-billion dollar long term investment to modernize them. The companies could buy the crude and store it for later resale. Proceeds from the sales could be distributed…”

DaveF:

Pretty close! I prefer to describe what we’re witnessing as: The Zionists are playing a deadly game of ‘Showdown’ with God - and they’re holding losing cards! Jewry had better get involved SOON and end this deadly game which is likely to produce lots of ‘collateral damage’!

The Jews are playing a dangerous game in the Middle East…. They believe that their god is working to give them a better part of the land and resources there as a covenant to their renewed worship and piety toward their god.

In order to make this happen they are more than willing to accept the help of the American Christian evangelicals. The belief in Armageddon is strong in the Christian faith here in the United States. A group of folks that once persecuted the Jews are now anxiously aiding the Jews in their drive for a greater Jewish Sates.

Why the change of heart? Well, for Armageddon to occur and the subsequent return of Christ the Jews need to return to the “promised land”.

The big problem is the massive amount of death and suffering that will accompany this Armageddon event.

The Jews will suffer along with infidels. Now, as strange a solution as this may seem for an all mighty power for the cleansing of evil from creation, I guess we would just have to live with it. However, if there is no all powerful god out there to come down and clean up the mess then we are going to have a big mess on our hands and the Jews and others will suffer a great calamity for no reason. The Jews are playing a dangerous game.

I don’t know if Counselor1 is beautiful - but I know he is a Dreamer. Dream on! Realpolitik means that those who possess power will leave no stone unturned to keep it - especially when surrender of power means the likely surrender of their lives! That’s why the Zionists are deathly afraid of a full investigation of 9/11 and the inevitable consequences that will follow surrender of their power. Fixing ‘Elections’, invasions, wars, lies, undue secrecy, Depressions, whatever it takes to stop the truth from reaching the light.

It ain’t gonna work!

Does anyone here think that the Pulitzer Prize is given to anyone who writes articles which undermine the interests (financial and political/philosophical) of the owners of their publications - even if it is the truth?

In other words, a Pulitzer Prize is not a red badge of courage!

Beyond Disaster -How to Turn Back Now

It may still be possible to avoid the Iraq disaster from turning into a catastrophe for the whole Middle East, but time is very short.  One of two history making events may occur this August 2007, but the one more probable is a US or Israeli preemptive strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities that plunges the world into a wider and longer Middle East war. Admirals have been appointed Theater Commander in the Middle East and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Also there are, I believe, now 3 U.S. carrier task forces in the Gulf. And both the U.S. and Iraqi congresses are in recess. Every time a Democratic presidential candidate makes vague promises of “withdrawal” of U.S. forces from Iraq, it raises the probability that Israel will make such a preemptive attack while our troops are still in the area and under Bush command.

The other event would be that the media, mainstream and blogosphere, force Bush and all presidential candidates to state definitive plans for Iraq, Iran and what to do if Israel were to attack Iran. Media might even do another service by urging all progressive candidates for President to set aside personal ambition for the moment and find agreement among themselves on such a definite plan for partial withdrawal and redeployment of remaining U.S. troops together with a united policy on what each, as the next president would order, or allow U.S. forces to do (on military advice) and on what he or she would REFUSE to do to support Israel in the event it made a preemptive attack on Iran and was subject to retaliation by Iran or other Muslim nations or groups. The American people have a right to know what they are in for.  Would the candidates, e.g., order, allow, or prohibit cruise missiles to be launched from ships at targets in Muslim states? Would they order, allow, or forbid U.S. ground troops to be used in retaliating Muslim nations or on Israeli soil?

Here is a withdrawal and redeployment plan I think Democrats and progressives could agree upon. No plan is perfectly just! You can’t un-kill people you’ve killed. U.S. troops will be withdrawn from Iraq’s cities toward its borders with Turkey and Iran. U.S. long-term military occupation of these oil field areas is the only thing that would cause oil companies to make the multi-billion dollar long term investment to modernize them. The companies could buy the crude and store it for later resale. Proceeds from the sales could be distributed equitably among Iraqis by a unit of our military, e.g., an enhanced SIGIR, thus bypassing the Iraqi assembly stalemate.

The US would have to ask for and fund a large U.N. force to guard Iraq’s borders to allow return of refugees. It would be interposed between our forces and those of Iran and other bordering countries. As our troops redeploy, they would escort WILLING Iraqis to partition areas of people of the same religion or ethnicity. Others can return home and assume the risk of fighting or making peace. We will help mixed marriage Iraqis to emigrate and open our own county to them or pay other countries to take them in and help establish them.

Finally, we could move the whole weak Iraqi central government out of Baghdad to an isolated, hardened U.S. base where its independence can be protected by us, so that Baghdad can be partitioned along the Tigris, with Sunnis moving from its east to west and Shia from west to east. We will give the Green Zone to Sunnis willing to move from east Baghdad to the west and convert the $1/2 billion embassy to a hospital, orphanage and war memorial for all.

Other countries, our own, Brazil and Myanmar, have moved their capitals! France and India once had two capitals each. A DOZEN other countries, including Israel, South Africa and Bolivia, now have multiple capitals as a result of war and partition.

Outraged:

There is a jewel hiding in your sarcastic post. It is ‘throw down your guns’. Einstein, a very intelligent Jew, said that there would be no end to war until the people stopped going to war. He was right - sort of.

Until everyone makes a decision of conscience and acts on it (like Lt. Ehren Watada), wars will continue and innocent people will die and get maimed. War is an invention of the Devil! (and so is the Arms industry)

There is a lesson here in how to stop Bush, et al, in their attempt to turn America into a Fascist State. Just say ‘NO!’ when your turn comes to take a stand! The blood of patriots may have to be sacrificed when saying ‘NO!’ to the tyrant. Leave the rest and consequences to God. “RESIST the Devil and he will flee from you”. RESISTANCE means passive resistance, not violent resistance!

So far I appear to be the only one who questions this self-proclaimed “Profit of Doom”. Of course I’m not blessed like so many others with “Visionary clarity;” so I just have to take a wait-and-see position. What bothers me is that Chris and his disciples seem to relish the idea that Iraq will not become a Social Democracy.

The underlying assumption is god will fix what we can’t.  All sides “know” that “their” god will not desert them.  Even though this is the one and only SAME GOD.  When will the world’s religious adherents wake up and figure out, the catholics are wrong, the muslims are wrong and so are the jews?  And any other “faith” which “humanity” has cooked up to control the masses.

As an act of FAITH in your GOD, throw down your guns and go home and wait.  When your GOD appears to the “rest of the world” and lets us all know who the “chosen” religion is we’ll come get you.  Until then, go home and wait.

Oh, weather, God will writethe ending to this ghastly story. Fortunately, He will supervise the BIG ENDING (already written) and it will be a ‘Happy Ending’ - for those who love Him and trust Him and obey Him.

Is 7 years with the New York Times long enough to thoroughly indoctrinate someone with the ‘religion’ of Zionism? You betcha!

PS The ‘protracted’ American ‘presence’ in Iraq, recently announced by Gates, is to ensure that Iraq will NEVER be a threat to Israel but its territory (and oil) can be freely used to attack the rest of the ME!  Aren’t those Zionists devious and deceptive little bastards?! - you might call them ‘devilish’

So now that you’ve heard the Chris Hedges’ version, would you like to know the truth?

The truth is that what occurred in Iraq is EXACTLY what was planned! Not necessarily in every detail but in the apparent and ultimate OUTCOME. The Israel plan for Iraq and the entire ME (including Iran) is ‘Balkanization’ or the disintegration of all viable nations that might, at some time in the future, pose a threat to Israel or the Zionist ambitions to create the ‘Greater Israel’ with borders only known to God!

Look for similar, smashing successes in Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. It’s a Never-Ending Story - or so the Zionists think.

In the eyes of Zionist Israel, the disaster in Iraq has been a SMASHING SUCCESS! It’s self-evident, IF you can SEE!

PS I’m beginning to like the ‘weather’ around here

Nothing new here.  When even James Baker, major player in the Carlyle Group, says that occupying Iraq is a bad idea, it means it’s a REALLY FREAKING BAD idea.  Because money is king in their world, and when the cost of making is too high you KNOW there is a problem.

http://thefederalistpapers2007.blogspot.com

Only thru the eyes of an alien ?
Log 1939/1945
Log 2003/2007.

Is there a comparison with what is happening to the USA both domestically[economy/inflation] and internationally as happened to Germany?

Economy destroyed; criminal international acts of invading other sovereign nations like Poland, Holland, Belgium, etc,.

The US invades Iraq and Afghanistan under pretenses of bringing democracy and freedom. Promoted and propagandized by neocons and chickenhawks as a cakewalk the war of liberating Iraq and Afghanistan are now part and parcel of a “war with no end”. Costly in human and financial terms it looks like the tip of the iceberg in the eventual deterioration of the US as a major power representing the ideal of what ostensibly every other nation aspires to.

Despised by almost all nations and peoples; in debt in the trillions; not able or willing to stand on principle in defending its borders from illegal entrants; engaged in attempts to tie in other countries to its nuclear system in oft times un-ethical methods.

And in one stroke all the oil and gas under the Artic is now legally and internationally subject to Russian jurisdiction in the same fashion that Iraq oil is subject to US adjucation.

The disaster that the US finds itself in thanks to its neocons and their stooges are far worse than Germany’s. Its hard to imagine that either Russia or China will come to the USA’s aid a la Marshall Plan. As anon has pontificated a number of times, “people who get power never learn from previous people who wielded power and never forget anything”.

#92493 by Ibex on 8/06 at 6:08 am
(1 comments total)

A well said, knock your socks off, comment!  Now what?

I draw apathy.

Chris Hedges; Wow...powerful, right on, to the point, reality revealed, well said, you couldn’t be more right...really.  But, you are just fueling the frenzy to post and opinionate and procrastinate and avoid the obvious...actually doing something.

My post?  Well, can’t hurt, eh?

There is no containment for my revulsion of BushCo. It has not harmed me personally. You might say that I have done well financially under his demented leadership. But intellectually, morally, and aesthetically he has damaged us all. The poor and the vulnerable have been hurt most in vital ways. Our constitution is in ruins. Hundreds of thousands of people have died because of his blighted presence. I have not found any redeeming qualities in his person. I don’t know if that is a reflection on my lack of faith or his lack of humanity. He is like a cancer that we don’t have the will to expunge. Will we let him ride us into ruin before he finally slithers away?

The comment by weather above will no doubt draw fire as an anti-semitic comment. Jews own or manage a great deal of America’s print and TV media. One might even point out that Rupert Murdock’s Jewish mother: Elizabeth Green, who brought the money and thus the fuel into the Murdock clan even makes Murdock technically Jewish and thus pretty much makes a clean sweep of the American media.  But American Jews are as divided and full of different opinions as other Americans who cannot ‘return’.  But even on the subject of Israel, American Jews are divided with many not supporting Zionist activities and the ethnicist policies of the State of Israel (it is hard to call Israel’s policies racist since they are all Semites).  On the other hand, one might naturally expect American Jews to mostly support Israel as much as their consciences will allow simply because, like Catholics to the Vatican, it is the center of focus of their faith and religious culture. 

All that happy stuff being said, it is obvious that most neocons were and are Jewish American some with dual nationality. Nothing surprising here.  But the Jews are not the real challenge even with their hard-won financial assets unless one considerd the media manipulation of the American press in favor of Israel since the middle of the last century to be any kind of threat.  Now, with the idiocy of radical Islam on its vengeful march against the infidel,

The real threat comes from the primitive goyim who are runing around with their hair on fire for Jesus.
Sadly, the halls of power are stained with those whose interpretation of the scriptures rarely reaches the level of actually asking WWJD? and intelligently acting on the peaceful answer.  The entire infrastructure of “Christian” activists dwarfs the power of American Jews because they have their slithering acolites all over the Pentagon and even in the White House where they seemingly control what is left of the mind of the Prayer-in-Chief.

When you beleive in Armageddon,and that it is a good thing, then it is OK to unleash the dogs of war for Jesus.  Jews are not so stupid that they think these people actualy support them for any other reason than to enable the onset of the “End Times’.  May all these people be raptured immediately before they destroy our world and leave us as pickings for the Eastern Hemisphere to nibble on.

Iraq was, to most of us who have lived for a long time in Arab countries and understand ‘Islamic logic’and culture, a massive stupidity full of hubris and cultural misunderstanding.

What a bunch of schlemeels.

Sad but true….

The saddest part is that the citizens of the United States are ultimately responsible. I will never fully understand how we were so easily led into this debacle with bare face lies and the drum beating of the MSM.

I know that there were some who tried to sound that alarm and to expose the lies and to educate the public about the historical dangers of attacking Iraq and the obvious glaring fact that it was not Iraq that attacked us but a bunch of Saudis. However, it was the MSM and their willingness to parrot to administration’s propaganda that hoodwinked the scared and emotional masses.

I always thought that we Americans were strong, no nonsense, can do folks. That myth was shattered forever with our response to the twin towers. Now millions of innocent people are suffering because of our knee jerk reaction and the real enemy is growing stronger as we grow weaker by decimating our military and economy with war time demands that we are not prepared to adequately meet.

This once great country is a democracy; we get what we vote for. Our votes have facilitated this mess. Our votes are the only way we will be able to address this mess with any hope of redeeming ourselves. Vote wisely.

Nothing here I disagree with, except that its understated. It’s not only the middle east that faces this future, but it will be global. When the Twig’s administration began this disaster, they initated WWIII and the end of days that were ever known before. I can’t even comment on the type of crisis that could possibly draw these disparate regions of the globe together into some form of “live and let live” to prevent the coming horrors.

The violence is going to increase, including in the U.S., because that’s the only direction release from this type of depravity can go to gain back independence in some form or another.

Concern is going to be the reactions by the American people. I’ve anticipated the coming internal violence in this country for years. Look around. Oppressed eventually revolt. And more and more in the U.S. are facing a mirror of some of the worst governments elsewhere in the world. Like those societies, Americans will ignore the warnings and refuse to act until its too late.

Quote: “...The security of the Green Zone, our imperial city, will be increasingly breached.  Command and control will disintegrate.  And we will back out of Iraq humiliated and defeated....”

What’s with this “our imperial city” bit, eh? If you don’t know, that is exactly what happened to the old Roman empire. They built an “imperial city” in Constantinople (Byzantium, now Istanbul) and ruled their empire from there for centuries.

The USA, itself built in the image of Rome, has now done virtually a travesty of the same thing in Baghdad - and its ‘empire’ is ruled from the viewpoint of “staying the course” there no matter what or how ludicrous the cost is.

Ironically, the M.Eastern “imperial city” of the past and its subsequent conqueror were referred to directly in the Catholic pope’s inflammatory speech last year. His illusions (or delusions) of an empire long past are ominous in their portent for Baghdad and the US/Coalition armies today.....

The Fall of Constantinople, 1453:- “When, at the age of twenty-one, Mehmed II (1451-1481) sat on the throne of the Ottoman Sultans his first thoughts turned to Constantinople. The capital was all that was left from the mighty Christian Roman Empire and its presence, in the midst of the dominions of the powerful new rulers of the lands of Romania, was pregnant with danger. The new Sultan demonstrated diplomatic abilities, during his early attempts to isolate politically the Byzantine capital, when he signed treaties with the Emperor’s most important Western allies, the Hungarians and the Venetians. He knew, however, that these were temporary measures, which would provide him with freedom of movement for a limited time only. To give the final blow on the half-dead body of the Byzantine Empire he had to move fast....” http://www.greece.org/Romiosini/fall.html

Israel’s gifts to America

Acrimony, angst and a inexhaustable supply of self-serving and highly manipulated deceit - all very carefully choreographed w/the phony and fraudulent energy of a Hollywood production.

Who wrote this flawed, dark and draconian screenplay isn’t nearly as important as who will writethe ending.

Very lovely Israel, now slide up and take a bow, soon you’ll be coming up on your 50th year of statehood. In that little time you’ve easily managed to distinguish yourselves as one of the most universally disliked and distrusted zip codes on Earth, you must be proud?
So take your Teva’s, your specious munitions, drugs and Eastern block slave trade and stay behind your Wall and ovulate on your chronic state of denial and leave America Out of your dark designs, its killing us.