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 Back to BasicsPosted on Aug 2, 2007WASHINGTON—How can such things happen? How can it be possible that one minute you’re driving home from work, or riding in a school bus with your friends, or heading to a baseball game, and the next minute you’re plummeting toward the Mississippi River as the bridge you’re crossing suddenly collapses? How, for that matter, can you be hurrying through Manhattan near Grand Central Station and suddenly a subterranean steam pipe explodes, sending a geyser hundreds of feet into the air and leaving a crater in the street big enough to swallow a tow truck? It’s easier to understand disasters if they have proximate causes—terrorism, earthquakes, tornadoes. It’s much harder to get your mind around what happened during rush hour Wednesday evening in Minneapolis, when a busy downtown bridge across the river simply ... collapsed. As U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary Peters said at a news conference Thursday, in a pithy statement of the obvious, “Bridges in America should not fall down.” They shouldn’t, but it’s quite possible that more of them will. We should also expect that more steam pipes will blow, that water mains will burst, that dams will develop worrisome cracks and that sooner or later, probably during a heat wave, much of the country will suffer a crippling blackout. The heavily used Interstate 35W bridge that catastrophically failed, spilling dozens of cars into the Mississippi, had been rated just 50 out of 100 for structural integrity at its last inspection two years ago, according to the Associated Press. That wasn’t as much of a red flag as it seems in retrospect. Not for a moment did anyone believe there was any real danger of collapse, and the 40-year-old span wasn’t considered near the end of its useful life. The rating just meant that the bridge had structural deficiencies that at some point should be addressed—just like 27.1 percent of all the nation’s 590,750 bridges. That estimate comes from the American Society of Civil Engineers, a trade group that every few years issues a report card on the nation’s aging infrastructure. The engineers’ most recent survey in 2005 gave the country an overall grade of D—and the reason for the low mark, as always, was that we don’t spend nearly what we should on maintenance and repair. Bridges were actually deemed to be in better shape than dams, roads or the power grid. But the civil engineers estimated that it would cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years “to eliminate all bridge deficiencies.” That’s not a lot of money in the context of a $13-trillion economy. But does anyone think we’re going to make infrastructure a national crusade? Have the presidential candidates been falling over themselves to stake out their positions on the oh-so-sexy infrastructure issue? Of course not. Infrastructure is boring. Anyone who has ever owned a house knows that every once in a while you have to replace the gutters, buy a new furnace, waterproof the basement or insulate the attic. But the tendency is to spend the money on a new flat-panel TV and let the infrastructure slide—until something breaks, floods or falls down. At that point, of course, the repair will cost twice as much as if you’d done it sooner. In the case of a deficient bridge or dam, the added cost may come in human life. But given the restraints that entitlements and debt service impose on government spending, given the astronomical cost of the war in Iraq and given the urgency of problems such as healthcare and education, it’s inevitable that technically deficient structures will go longer than they should without being repaired or replaced. There are more than 160,000 “structurally deficient or functionally obsolete” bridges in the United States, according to the civil engineers’ 2005 report. Of those deficient or obsolete bridges, 43,189 are in urban areas. There is no reason to think any particular one is about to collapse the way the bridge in Minneapolis did. But now we know that the theoretical possibility of sudden, catastrophic failure is real. It’s unrealistic to think this disaster is going to spur the nation to seriously address all its infrastructure problems. We’ll talk about the issue for a while, then go out and buy another TV. But we can—and should—at least do a more rigorous inventory and identify the structures that pose the most peril. Yes, it’s boring stuff to even think about. But just look at the alternative. Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at)washpost.com. © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group SHARE THIS TRUTHDIG ARTICLE:
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Confronting the Terrorist Within
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Jump to Comments
By Gloria Picchetti, August 9, 2007 at 5:09 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
To D Chambers- You are correct. I forgot no one here saves a penny. China is not sick of our debt however. They own us and they love it. What else can they kill us and our pets with since we are so indebted to them?
Report thisTo Cyrena, thank for pointing out that Regan deregulated the airlines. He also took away tax deductions for the common person. Everyone always says, “But Gloria, you got more take home on your check.” I made about a dime a week.
Who complained about the trucks decaying the roads? Who is shopping for things they can’t afford anyway that made the trucks bring the things to them? The truck was just doing what it was asked to do.
Bush promised over and over again in one of his states of the union to give back the charitable deduction. That was another one of his good brownie job lies.
If we don’t build bridges maybe we can go back to the ferry system. That is REALLY safe!
By Skruff, August 9, 2007 at 4:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
93345 by cyrena on 8/09 at 2:54 am
Hey Skruff,
On this:
..."Really, The airline indrustry has been disintergrating since Carter deregulated it."
“Wasnt it Regan who deregulated the airline industry?”
Carter See below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 9, 2007 at 3:34 am #
#93226 by Gloria Picchetti on 8/08 at 5:27 pm: “...Investing in infrastructure is investing in ourselves. It is not that hard. Taxes are not the only way to support the projects. I love insured municipal bonds....”
As you most probably know, there is going to be an awful lot more of domestic financing of all kinds of projects soon, GP. That is, if they can find anyone with any money left after the mortgage disaster, etc etc.
The global hedge funds are in trouble for a change instead of making trouble as they did with the last financial crisis in Asia in the ‘90’s. The $US is headed somewhere towards the South pole and nobody wants to accept it for oil payments any more.
Apart from that, China and Japan and W.Europe are sick of buying US debt so financing US domestic spending (or re-financing it even) will take a lot of domestic contribution. Any time soon Bernanke and Paulson will be shoving US Treasury bonds at you for everything!
Report thisBy cyrena, August 9, 2007 at 2:54 am #
Hey Skruff,
On this:
..."Really, The airline indrustry has been disintergrating since Carter deregulated it."…
Wasn’t it Regan who deregulated the airline industry? I mean, I’m not certain myself, but that’s as far back as my memory goes on this. I specifically remember PATCO, which wound up in the firing of all air traffic controllers that had initiated work actions for the normal reasons.
Regan replaced any of them they didn’t wanna stay in line. That seemed like sort of the beginning of the disintergration, because the airline industy still kept growing, with the government paying little attention to it’s aging infrastructure, (and the whole air traffic system is behind the times for what the corps demand from it).
So, when I think of the really defining moment for the industry, (or at least one of them) I generally connect it to Regan’s deregulation and the PATCO bust-up, but it could have been Carter who got it going.
Report thisBy Gloria Picchetti, August 8, 2007 at 5:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Investing in infrastructure is investing in ourselves. It is not that hard. Taxes are not the only way to support the projects. I love insured municipal bonds. Munies are to me what real estate is to Donald Trump. You pay no federal income taxes on them. And to solve the entire tax issue anyway look up henrygeorge.org. The only way to go tax wise is land value tax. Why do you want to pay taxes on your yatch and chickens? Pay only taxes on land and only land, nothing else!
Report thisBy Dan Uu Noel, August 8, 2007 at 4:56 pm #
Had the bridge collapsed because of some amateurish terrorist attack, it would have provoked a national commotion and justified another head-on attack on civil liberties and perhaps another thrust to “fight them over there,” i.e. another escalation of the Iraq fiasco.
Report thisBut since this appears to be a natural failure due to aging and/or lack of maintenance, the government agencies with jurisdiction over the matter will, as usual, keep a low profile and focus on being less blamable for future failures.
As this century unfolds, inevitably, government will focus on teamwork, quality, productivity and public service. But in the meantime, it still works pretty much like in the WWII era.
Love,
By Sharon Ash, August 6, 2007 at 12:58 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Well, let’s see, we have been and continue to be, busy, tearing up Iraq, their roads and bridges, their electrical supply, their water supply, and on and on. Does it seem possible that when a nation creates that kind of negative consequences for others, they could be bringing negative consequences upon themselves? Bomb the bridges of others, and yours just fall down! Maybe. If we want our infrastructures repaired, we will have to ask the Pentagon to put it in their budget, because they get everything they ask for. Actually, there are two things we can each do to help, one is support the formation of a U.S. Department of Peace (HR 808) and the second is support the establishment of a Peace Tax Fund. The only way we will ever get this obscene spending for the military slowed down, so there is money for our infrastructures and a long list of other needs, is when we can begin to take away some of their power (i.e.money). Both of the two above mentioned actions are steps in that direction. Or, we could just post our bitches about how horrible Bush is, on this site, like that is going to change anything.
Report thisBy Sharon Ash, August 6, 2007 at 12:58 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Well, let’s see, we have been and continue to be, busy, tearing up Iraq, their roads and bridges, their electrical supply, their water supply, and on and on. Does it seem possible that when a nation creates that kind of negative consequences for others, they could be bringing negative consequences upon themselves? Bomb the bridges of others, and yours just fall down! Maybe. If we want our infrastructures repaired, we will have to ask the Pentagon to put it in their budget, because they get everything they ask for. Actually, there are two things we can each do to help, one is support the formation of a U.S. Department of Peace (HR 808) and the second is support the establishment of a Peace Tax Fund. The only way we will ever get this obscene spending for the military slowed down, so there is money for our infrastructures and a long list of other needs, is when we can begin to take away some of their power (i.e.money). Both of the two above mentioned actions are steps in that direction. Or, we could just post our bitches about how horrible Bush is, on this site, like that is going to change anything.
Report thisBy Skruff, August 6, 2007 at 5:19 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
92420 by Louise on 8/05 at 8:48 pm
“Which only goes to show. There really isnt anybody in charge.”
What gave you your first clue?
Really, The airline indrustry has been disintergrating since Carter deregulated it.
The Highways have been decaying since Eisenhower made the great Interstate choice.
The bridges disintergrate since the Bureaucracy moved National ditto the school systems.
LOCAL people need to make local decisions.
300 million people in a country as large as ours is way to big to govern from central government.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 6, 2007 at 2:42 am #
#92450 by purplewolf on 8/06 at 1:30 am
#92420 Louise. I just heard on the news last nite that the pilots of commercial airliners want overtime pay after 80 hour of work. Get this they are only allowed to fly 80 per month by goverment rules. That is why there is a pilot shortage.
Puplewolf,
Only for the record, this isnt the reason for a pilot shortage, which Im not sure there is. In reality, the government (FAA) has always regulated these rules for pilots, but the arent all tied to 80 hrs per month. It just depends on a whole lot of things, specifically the type of airline it is, and where they fly, as a few other things. Still, youre right that the majority of commercial pilots in the U.S., are restricted to 80 hours per month. Those are however, ONLY flying hours. Thats not anything that leads up to it, or anything outside of the time that they release the brakes on the departure, and the chalk-in time at the arrival city gate. And, they are also mandated to 8 hours behind closed doors while on a scheduled layover. (they dont generally get much more, because the commercial airlines squeeze every second they can out of them).
And, those have been the rules for probably 25 or more years, though I suspect that theyve been altered a bit as operations have become increasingly fast paste, and the amount of air traffic, (as well as passenger and cargo loads) has tremendously increased over the past 3 decades. Still, any adjustments have been to the advantage of the corporates the airlines. And, in reality, you wouldnt want to fly on an airplane with a pilot at the wheel, who hadnt had enough rest. And, they generally wont go for it either.
Same with truck drivers. If Im driving along my favorite coast highway, I wanna make sure all of the guys or girls driving the big rigs, are equally rested. Now I can see where they wouldnt need 16 hours, but surely there needs to be a bit of oversight on these things. Big rigs too, can be very dangerous to many others around them.
As for the pilot shortage, Im not sure that there actually is one. They do have to retire at age 60, so that does take a lot of them out of the pool. And, at least a large percentage of the ones that are retiring or will be, were produced by the military, back when we had our other very long nightmare. So, thats where many of come from.
The training (outside of the military) is pretty prohibitive for the average person, so its highly likely that the military hasnt produced as many pilots in the past couple of decades, who have passed on to the commercial district, once theyve done their time. So, that may have changed the dynamics a bit. I dont know. Im still inclined to think that there are enough of them around, especially with all of the bankruptcies and massive layoffs in the industry, that still hasnt entirely recouped. So, theyve got them, they just dont wanna pay them. (or share the profits when they DO see them thats been the case lately. Executive pay v. employee rank and file pay).
Way too large of a gap for the rank and file. But, it’s that way everywhere now…
Report thisBy purplewolf, August 6, 2007 at 1:30 am #
#92420 Louise. I just heard on the news last nite that the pilots of commercial airliners want overtime pay after 80 hour of work. Get this they are only allowed to fly 80 per month by goverment rules. That is why there is a pilot shortage. The goverment also restricts the drive time and down time of the truck drivers. My son-in-law is a big rig driver and the way it is now if you shut down because you are tired, you have to stay off the road for the next 16 hours before you can drive the truck again. This is a really stupid rule. Most people can be ready to return to work after a reasonable amount of rest. Only the person who does this type of work knows, not some stupid bigwig in an office somewhere makeing up regulations with no actual concept of what goes on in a job. This same rediculous goverment makes really outrageous rules about how people who are mentally handicapped are to be “normalized” when they live in group homes in a residentuial setting. Let them try working by some of these “big brother rules all, knows nothing” rules that they continue to dream up that are so off in la=la land.Talk about red tape get nothing done attitudes.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 6, 2007 at 1:13 am #
#92132 by Skruff on 8/04 at 5:51 am: “...The legal question was: Was the damage flood related (no payment) or storm related (full payment. The court left a large loophole for appeal by declaring the damage (all of it) was due to the flood there was no discussion in this brief of colateral damage from Katrina. Justice is indeed blind.....”
Its a game now, Skruff - “Home Insurers’ Secret Tactics Cheat Fire Victims, Hike Profits” - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&re fer=home&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI
Report thisBy Louise, August 5, 2007 at 8:48 pm #
OK, we all know about what a nightmare flying has become. But do you know why ... really why?
Terrorists? Terrifying agents looking for terrorists?
Bad weather?
Well yeh, to a degree ... but what about those flights that get cancelled on a regular basis?
Guess what folks, there just aint no-one out there to pilot those planes! Pilots are in short supply and they can fly just so many hours a week and ... well you figure it out.
Then there’s those little shuttle flights. The ones that hold a handful of people in a hurry to get somewhere they could drive almost as quickly. Those little jets clog up the runways and terminals and flight control headache’s just as effectively as the really big guys.
Long story short ... the highways and bridges aren’t the only factors in our travel needs badly in need of fixing!
Which only goes to show. There really isn’t anybody in charge.
While corps and bottom liners, Airplane manufacturers and investors have been counting their returns, the industry ... you know the guys that fly and watch those radar blips ... has approached the hair pulling out stage.
What to do? Well hope to goodness every time you or a loved one has to fly they make it. Or find an alternative. Drive. But check your route ahead of time. If it isn’t down, or coming down, it’s being worked on.
I’m sorry, I know it’s terribly un-patriotic and all that, but I find it impossible to believe a bunch of terrorists are plotting to attack us. Crap, all they have to do is wait. Thanks to stupidity, lack of foresight, crooked politicians and general bad management ... it’s just a matter of time before we are walking around in the same kind of crumbling mess we have visited on so many societies in the name of democracy.
Which must be why the latest booga booga terror threat is focusing on Embassies. Maybe they know how ridiculous they are starting to sound in the face of our own particular crumbling democracy. No freedoms left to take away from us ... our prez and congessers are doing that quite well thank you. And very soon the crumbling infrastructure wont be worth attacking.
So who do we thank for this sorry mess?
The same villains as always. Politicians, State and Federal. Stupid people [mostly republican and libertarian] fixated on no taxes to keep the infrastructure up and running. Privatization responsible for bad workmanship. Corp. bottom lines that can’t see the project, only the Ca-Ching and us ... yes of course us. Anybody remember that old saying when it was discovered that what was supposed to be getting done in the Federal and State Government wasn’t? Everybody bitches, but nobody leads the charge for change ... hence the saying, “let George do it” and by golly here we are.
And George wont do it either!
So while it’s all very well and good to point out the crookedness and the fraud and crony-ism, nothing threatens to change anytime soon. Maybe when the toilets all start backing up and green sludge comes out of our faucets, and the garbage stops getting picked up because none of the stations can pump fuel and rolling blackouts become a daily occurrence all across the nation and nobody can fly ... or drive. Maybe then everyone will stop bitching about taxes and see the need to fund and to pay attention to how those funds are being handled ... maybe then things will change.
Or maybe not.
And that doesn’t do anything to make anybody feel any better about the bridge collapse.
Just a blip on the radar, before everyone goes back to business as usual. Including George who will probably move as quickly and decisively on this tragedy as he has every other tragedy occurring under his watch.
I understand emigration from the United States to Canada is at a new high.
Report thisBy Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, August 5, 2007 at 6:31 am #
Dennis, I’m with you on that. Let’s call it extortion, then. If I give Don Bushie and his congressional thugs a few extra bucks, they’ll guarantee my safe passage across bridges. My life’s worth it to me. Some may feel they can’t be bought. I’m cheap.
Report thisBy Skruff, August 5, 2007 at 4:51 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
91963 by Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD on 8/03 at 9:12 am
“Raise my effing taxes, please! Just dont dump me into the Mississippi, Hudson, or Allegheny. I dont even mind if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet make it across on my dollar. Ill get a second job at Wendys.”
92202 by DennisD on 8/04 at 1:02 pm
“I hope youre speaking for yourself as far as raising taxes - you certainly dont speak for me.”
OR ME!!
I also like the “try something origional”
America First is good, BUT what about “Warranty on contracted work?”
Interstate highways are mostly (since the 1050’s) erected by private companies. Carlo Bambacci’s firm put 287 through White Plains New York (1957-59) and the road disintergrated within two years requiring a rebuild more expensive than the origional job.
What’s the useful life of a Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge has been there for over 120 years The George Washington Has been there for over a half century, The Manhattan, Williamsburg, and 59th Street have been there longer and carry heavier traffic loads than that piece of crap in Minnesota, so what’s up?
Make the people who build them responsible for them (by posted bond or full replacement insurance) for what’s considered “useful life” AND the “useful life” clause should be part of the contract bid.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 5, 2007 at 12:30 am #
#92132 by Skruff on 8/04 at 5:51 am
The legal question was:
Was the damage flood related (no payment) or storm related (full payment. The court left a large loophole for appeal by declaring the damage (all of it) was due to the flood there was no discussion in this brief of colateral damage from Katrina. Justice is indeed blind.
Skruff, I just wanted to add what may be a piece of miscellaneous trivia. I was told that in the early days of the first assessments of this legal question, (flood v storm related) they were using a shovel stuck in the mud. If the shovel could remain standing in the mud inside the house, it was flood related no money. If the shovel fell down, (not enough mud to keep it up) then it was storm related. But, I think that within a few days, they ALL became flood related. Ergo, no money for anybody.
Report thisAnd yep, I hear you when you say that these same legal questions didnt seem to come up in the Chatham, New Jersey storm of 1987. Not a wimper.
By Louise, August 4, 2007 at 9:41 pm #
#92013 by Skruff on 8/03 at 3:03 pm
“I hate Bush, didnt vote for him twice. Held my nose and voted for Kerry second time BUT EVERYTHING isnt his fault.”
Oh yea?
Well since he is alleged to be president and since he is alleged to be a republican and since he has screwed up just about everything he’s put his “policy” to ... I’m perfectly happy to blame him. Along with every flipping “alleged” republican in Washington D.C.
The “Grand Old Party” has become synonymous with death and destruction! I hope they all recognize at some point in time why they are held in such contempt by their constituents! You’d think after Katrina they would have slowed down long enough to see if everything [anything] was OK on the home-front!
What a bunch of phonies!
Bush Administration Killed Increased Highway Repairs In 2004
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2007/08/bush-adminis tration-killed-increased.html
“But for the sake of four cents a gallon back in 2004, the Bush Administration said no additional money would be provided for roads and bridges. Yet we pour billions of borrowed money into Iraq every month.”
Report thisBy Chaseme, August 4, 2007 at 6:39 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Do you really want to go there?
Report thisBy DennisD, August 4, 2007 at 1:02 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
#91963 by Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD on 8/03 at 9:12 am
(100 comments total)
Raise my effing taxes, please! Just dont dump me into the Mississippi, Hudson, or Allegheny. I dont even mind if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet make it across on my dollar. Ill get a second job at Wendys.
I hope you’re speaking for yourself as far as raising taxes - you certainly don’t speak for me. How about something original like an AMERICA FIRST spending program. Whereby every need of the people of this country must be met before we spend a penny elsewhere. We already take in far more in taxes than we need. It’s the distribution of it that’s the problem and who’s doing the distributing. I’d like to actually see something for the taxes I do pay and have paid for a long time rather than pay more for a bigger corrupt bureaucracy. How much is enough? Let’s elect people than can get it right for a change.
Report thisSpending “more” is not the answer, spending “intelligently” is.
By GW=MCHammered, August 4, 2007 at 7:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Hey Einstein was right again!
Government SUV & two story 4x4 tax incentive =
Report this2x(gas price) + 1x(bridge collapse) + 4x(global war-ming) / (human life)^2
By Skruff, August 4, 2007 at 5:51 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
92018 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/03 at 3:52 pm
“Most insurers dont offer flood insurance anyway - and especially to homeowners. That is because so many housing tracts have been developed in low-lying flood-prone areas. Every decade or so they would inevitably get flooded.”
The legal question was:
Was the damage “flood related” (no payment) or “storm related” (full payment. The court left a large loophole for appeal by declaring the damage (all of it) was due to the “flood” there was no discussion in this brief of colateral damage from Katrina. Justice is indeed blind.
I also suggest that to get the full flovor of this judgement, they examine the insurance pay-outs in (mostly white upper middle class, Chatham New Jerseey in 1987. Storm, resulting flood and payments without wimper. Funny how these things work
Report thisBy purplewolf, August 3, 2007 at 10:05 pm #
Remember when the electric grid went out during Bushies first ill gained 4 year stint and they said it was to expensive to fix, about 4 billion dollars. Did it ever get fixed? We spend 4 billion dollars plus every two weeks in Iraq, at least that is what they admitted to last I read,not counting all the other money pits this goverment is wasting money on with nothing to show for it.I would much rather see that money spend fixing up America,not spent fixing up a country that destroys the work our people have done for them over and over again.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 3, 2007 at 9:55 pm #
#91915 by Skruff on 8/03 at 5:18 am
Report this Get the trucks over 20,000 pounds off the highways or make them pay repair costs. that simple.... Which means it will never happen.
Skruff, youre so right. If its simple, (like the above solution) its not likely to happen. Weve replaced common sense with .whatever this is these days.
By Frank Cajon, August 3, 2007 at 9:49 pm #
Bottom line: This was an unfortunate accident, and it possibly could have been avoided. People died. Mourn them and their families. Vote for some national and state candidates that will spend money for US infrastructure and not destroying and rebuilding foreign infrastructure.
Report thisDon’t expect anything from Washington DC that will make this any better, there’s no money in it, and lost American lives mean nothing to these men. Just pray no more bridges collapse on you or your families before we get sane leadership that will spend our tax dollars on improving the US instead of committing atrocities.
By ctbrandon, August 3, 2007 at 8:34 pm #
Wonder how many bridges, roads, and dams we could bring up to standard in America if we stopped funding a useless war in the Middle East?
brandon
Report thishttp://www.actforyourself.org
By Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 3:52 pm #
#91967 by sophgogs on 8/03 at 9:38 am: “...I wonder if the victims will fare any better with the crooked insurance companies than these poor Katrina victims have? - A US federal court has ruled that insurers do not have to pay for the flood damage in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina in 2005....”
Its a bad week for insurance companies listed on Wall Street to have to pay out a $1billion or more, ‘sophgogs’. But that might not be the only reason.
Most insurers don’t offer flood insurance anyway - and especially to homeowners. That is because so many housing tracts have been developed in low-lying flood-prone areas. Every decade or so they would inevitably get flooded.
The real culprits are the local government agencies which have permitted the development and building in those areas in the first place!!! Guess why, ha ha?!?! Katrina victims will have to move to suing the state collectively. No help is it???
Report thisBy Skruff, August 3, 2007 at 3:03 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Folks are begining to remind me of that old “Fort Apache the Bronx” movie.
Bridge falls in Minnesota Bush’s fault.
Outsourcing Blame Bush
NAFTA proposed by father Bush, passed by Clinton and Democrats But gotta be Bush’s fault.
I hate Bush, didn’t vote for him twice. Held my nose and voted for Kerry second time… BUT EVERYTHING isn’t his fault. The highway infrastructure has been deteriorating since our system decided to put loads of 100.000 pounds per axel on highways with passenger cars, instead of on rails where they belong. I have no problem paying taxes for intelligent design, but I refuse to subsidize a greedy irresponsible trucking indrustry. But then who was it who defunded ConRail.... Oh yeah, it must have been Bush!
Report thisBy Dale Headley, August 3, 2007 at 11:10 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Hey, who’s going to call for more protection for the infrastructure if it might mean a few dollars more on their tax bill? Come on! Bridges collapse; dams break; levees crumble; roads deteriorate. Is that any reason for me to allow my taxes to go up? It’s those crazy, socialist, Europeans who think that way. Would you believe it? They actually believe that taxation is a means of investing in their quality of life, which includes a safe, reliable infrastructure, not to mention free health care for their children. Liberals! By the way, why doesn’t somebody do something about that pothole out in front of my house?
Report thisBy kevin, August 3, 2007 at 10:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Our great King George II and Prince of Darthness Cheney will surely ease our minds in a few days. As soon as Murdoch enterprises and the O’Reilly Olfactory present us with statements that the left is to blame. He who controls the media, controls the mind.
Report thisBy Graham Layton, August 3, 2007 at 9:40 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Mr Billis : I agree with most of what you say, but please do not insult Chimpanzees
Report thisBy sophgogs, August 3, 2007 at 9:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I wonder if the victims will fare any better with the crooked insurance companies than these poor Katrina victims have?
Report thisBy Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, August 3, 2007 at 9:12 am #
One more thing: What lamebrain idiot voter can persist in swallowing the lies from candidates that government has to be “small” and there have to be tax cuts when it’s going to cost hundreds of billions just to bring bridges into the 21st century while we’re paying for the debacle in the mid-East and still bailing out the S&Ls;from the ‘80’s. Raise my effing taxes, please! Just don’t dump me into the Mississippi, Hudson, or Allegheny. I don’t even mind if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet make it across on my dollar. I’ll get a second job at Wendy’s.
Report thisBy Don Stivers, August 3, 2007 at 8:41 am #
The aging infrastructure has been a problem for years and it has been ignored by our present group of brilliant politicians. I believe it has been only Kucinich that has experience in this matter.
This present administration thinks it is much better to spend our tax monies in Iraq rather that at home.
Shows you how informed our leaders are.
How could ANYBODY have voted for these morons. Really! How could they? As a nation, are we that stupid?
Report thisBy Scott, August 3, 2007 at 7:58 am #
But the tendency is...to let the infrastructure slideuntil something breaks
You could just as easily say the very same thing about the constitution. No matter how you slice things America looks like a case of yet another super-power going down.
Report thisBy Margaret Currey, August 3, 2007 at 7:27 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Mississippi is a strong running river, I was living in Kenner (a city near New Orleans) and was down at the French Quarter, a couple of days after a freighter ran into a pier and as luck would have it no one died, but there are people who do not study the lay of the land, for instance people from New Jersey wondered why the River area was not bilt up more than it was, the answer this Mississippi is a wild river, during spring it moves a lot around, therefore this bridge was built wrong because the water moves a lot, the design was if one section falls it all falls.
Of course things will always break due to unforseen things like an earthquake which brought a section of the lovely Oakland Bay bridge and on the same day the Cypress EXpressday viduct broke, the cause it was built on shakey ground or to be more percise landfill which is moveable land, the same landfill was the ground in the Marina in the city of San Francisco, these problems were related to an earthquake but what happened in Minnasota was because it would be inconvient for the people driving to tear down the river, add the fact that trucks have become longer and heavier because people need at least 12 types of salad dressing on their lettuce which was grown with water not fit for human beings, the list could go on and on but you know we have a war to win.
Report thisBy Chaseme, August 3, 2007 at 6:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Its kind of hard to outsource the work to maintain these structures. And, this administration does not want to give Union members the work, because theyre too busy eliminating the Unions.
Unfortunately, it wont be until a Democratic president is in office that the republicans will bring up these issues as a problem to simply make that president look bad.
And, we all know that it is not only potholes and bridges the next president will have to repair when this administration leaves office.
Report thisBy Dr. Knowitall, PhD, PhD, August 3, 2007 at 6:39 am #
We’re all in big trouble if we think for an instant that our president and our congress give a rat’s ass about the condition of the bridges we cross everyday going to work. If they thought 10 or 20% of taxpayers’ lives were imperiled by infrastructure deficiencies, they’d move to protect their treasury and their image of “caring about the little guy.” A dike here or there, a bridge, no matter. This is to be expected in a country of 300 million people (but their hearts and prayers do go out to the victims and their beloved loved ones.) Besides, there’s a war on terror right now. Millions of Mexicans are, as I write, trying to hijack our beloved country. (I have an idea: instead of walls between US and Mexico, build bridges.) Let’s get our priorities straight, folks.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 6:34 am #
#91923 by KISS on 8/03 at 5:43 am: “… if we did not spend a Trillion dollars on Iraq the infrastructure would not be the headache it is........ How does this and the next occurrence of a 9/11 play out with executive order 51 and the secret[ even from congress]annexes going to play out? Yes, Martial Law is in the game book, and suspension of our beloved constitution is ready to be scrapped....”
Uhh, Cheney has already done the Wolfowitz 9/11 thing and ‘predicted’ another terrorist attack (ref. CommonDreams.org - I’ve lost my link). I wonder when - soon, I guess? They’ve already boosted the navy in the Persian Gulf region to three aircraft carrier attack groups. I’ve expected some degree of either martial law or restricted rights or restricted movement (as in wartime) for a while - but I still hope it never actually happens.
If the US congress hasn’t the guts..... well, look at the way Rumsfeld bluntly and insolently refuted Kucinich. They know they can do what they like as long as they maintain a facade and a pretence of normalcy and paying lip-service to laws and procedures. Its not just the Democrats but Liebermann - the independants. Then again, the CIA plays dirty behind the scenes and most of them dare not step out of line.
It all depends on whether the powers-that-be wish to continue investing in the US military-industrial complex or whether they accede to the inevitable need to upgrade infrastructure and invest in solar power. That would occupy them for the next decade with another way of extorting massive profits from the government while making everyone happy.
Report thisBy GW=MCHammered, August 3, 2007 at 6:14 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
So impeachment is off the table? Then how about secession. ‘Cause BushCo Amerika is cracking up just like its decider.
Report thisBy KISS, August 3, 2007 at 5:43 am #
I have two very worrisome problems with this bridge failure. 1- Is this tragedy and the costs bailly-hooded to make us rush headlong into privatizing Toll bridges and roads? Of course if we did not spend a Trillion dollars on Iraq the infrastructure would not be the headache it is. Bill Clinton started this nonsense and Bush is really ready to have his buddies move in for the kill, think Australia and Spain conglomerates.
Report this2- How does this and the next occurrence of a 9/11 play out with executive order 51 and the secret[ even from congress]annexes going to play out? Yes, Martial Law is in the game book, and suspension of our beloved constitution is ready to be scrapped.
By Skruff, August 3, 2007 at 5:18 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I suppose pointing fingers is more fun than suggesting solutions. Bridges in America do indeed collapse, and many years ago, one on the New England Thruway in Bridgeport Connecticut just disintergrated under its own weight killing 4 people.
Here in Maine the State government raised the axle limit from 80,000 to 100,000 pounds on State roads. when the State roads began to fall apart, the same government went to the feds demanding that they raise the weight limit on the interstates to 100,000 so the trucks wouldn’t destroy state roads. Governmental logic I guess, BUT I see the solution as getting these large road destroying loads off the highways and byways. When the budget returns to the fore, I would suggest revamping our rail system to get the weight back where it belongs. If this isn’t acceptable then trucking companies should pay their fair share of cost concerning roads. Passenger cars do little damage to the highways. That is proven beyond a doubt in New York State where the Taconic, Sawmill, and Hutchenson River (Passenger car only) parkways cost less to maintain, and are far more pleasent to drive.
Get the trucks over 20,000 pounds off the highways or make them pay repair costs. that simple.... Which means it will never happen.
Report thisBy THOMAS BILLIS, August 3, 2007 at 1:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Listen up and listen good.We have 16 mos left with the moron.We do not want this moron involved in a big project that requires thought.As sure as Iraq is another Vietnam this guy will screw it all up with his buddies robbing the taxpayers blind.What we need to do is patch patch patch until this chimpanzee is out of office.If we elect a serious bright President next election let us get on with cleaning up the mess that this guy has made.If he handles another big thing it will be one more thing to clean up.These people take care of bridges to nowhwere not bridges to somewhere.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 1:34 am #
#91892 by cyrena on 8/03 at 1:13 am: “… I guess it will depend on their campaign managers. What would be good “policy” for any of them, would be to consider this more in terms of the old “New Deal” apparatus, then how much ‘sex appeal’ it might have .....IOW, get some folks trained, and pay them to keep our shit working. And, those people should be...US. Wasn’t that the basic concept of the New Deal ......There’s work to be done, so let’s get to it? There’s something for everybody to do. And yeah, we can even pay you, because you’ll put it back into the economy, and everything will be peachy .....It worked for a while. Besides, we can’t eat ‘sex appeal’....”
There are plenty of Americans all ready to get to work. The problem is they are all in the armed forces in Iraq killing people and blowing up their infrastructure or sitting on their butts in S.Korea or Okinawa or somewhere.
What is more, most of them are all well-trained in quite a lot more than just pointing a gun. They are needed back in the USA most of all. Of course, it would also be a lot cheaper not to have to support them as an incursive or invasive occupying force overseas, if you get what I mean.
Report thisBy cyrena, August 3, 2007 at 1:13 am #
#91891 by Douglas Chalmers on 8/03 at 12:58 am
The infrastructure issue has suddenly become sexy. I wonder if any of the new crop of presidential candidates has noticed - how much longer will it take???
Good question, Douglas. I guess it will depend on their campaign managers. What would be good “policy” for any of them, would be to consider this more in terms of the old “New Deal” apparatus, then how much ‘sex appeal’ it might have. IOW, get some folks trained, and pay them to keep our shit working. And, those people should be...US. Wasn’t that the basic concept of the New Deal. There’s work to be done, so let’s get to it? There’s something for everybody to do. And yeah, we can even pay you, because you’ll put it back into the economy, and everything will be peachy.
It worked for a while. Besides, we can’t eat ‘sex appeal’.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, August 3, 2007 at 12:58 am #
Quote: “That estimate comes from the American Society of Civil Engineers, a trade group that every few years issues a report card on the nation’s aging infrastructure. The engineers’ most recent survey in 2005 gave the country an overall grade of “D”—and the reason for the low mark, as always, was that we don’t spend nearly what we should on maintenance and repair......
Bridges were actually deemed to be in better shape than dams, roads or the power grid. But the civil engineers estimated that it would cost $9.4 billion a year for 20 years “to eliminate all bridge deficiencies.”.....”
The infrastructure issue has suddenly become ‘sexy’. I wonder if any of the new crop of presidential candidates has noticed - how much longer will it take???
Report thisBy cyrena, August 2, 2007 at 9:44 pm #
Actually, as boring as it may seem to some, there are in fact many citizens among us, who would be overwhelmingly interested in doing this work. Old boomer engineers sitting around, (probably unemployed or under-employed)as well as the newer generations, who would give anything to have access to the education they need, to keep our infrastructure in good health.
Unfortunately, we do not invest in our human infrastructure (to find and educate these people, and utilize their skills)any more than we have been willing to invest the other funds required for this building and upkeep.
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